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Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH

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  • Richard Pach
    Hi Marian Let us try to find out if we might be related. When was you grandfather born? My father was born in Przemyslany in 1921. This was the estate
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 4, 2010
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      Hi Marian
      Let us try to find out if we might be related. When was you grandfather born? My
      father was born in Przemyslany in 1921. This was the estate belonging to his
      grandfather whose name, I think, was Mikel Moszoro de Massilla. He was married
      to Anna von Podbielska but the surname Hamerling figures in there somewhere. My
      fathers parents were Edward Jan Pach born I believe 02/11/1891 and Joanna
      Gryzelda Moszoro de Massilla born  09/0/1899 in Vienna.
      Mikel was Director of Education for Galicia.
      Edward ach was Lt. Col. in the Polish Army having served in the Polish-Soviet
      war. At the outbreak of WW2 he was stationed in Brest-Litewski and was captured
      by the Wehrmacht thus escaping the Katyn fate that befell the remaining officers
      in Brest. Joanna and her daughter Aldona were deported to Sverdlovsk and Joanna
      died in 1942 in Tashknet. Joanna survived and spent 4 years in Africa before
      returning to Poland in 1947 where she remained till her death in 1960.
      You mention Kolomajyawhich is interesting because my father took refuge there
      when he fled In 1939.He too made it to France and joined the officer cadet
      school at Coetquidien. Frm there to Scotland to join Gen Maczek's 1st Polish
      Armoured Division. He settled in Scotland but only returned to Poland once for 4
      weeks in 1974. He was able to speak to friends who remembered Joanna and
      collected some photos and things.

      Best Regards
      Richard 



      ________________________________
      From: Marian Moszoro <mmoszoro@...>
      To: Kresy-Siberia <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 10:52:40 PM
      Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH

       
      Well, my name is Marian Moszoro. My grandfather Kazimierz was born in
      Kolomyja and studied Mechanical Engineering in Lwow. During WW2 he was
      enrolled in the Polish Army in France, and later in the
      Polish headquarters in London. After the War, he marred and emigrated to
      Argentina, where my father was born.

      I was born in Argentina in 1974, moved to Poland in 1993, and then to
      Berkeley, CA, in 2009 for a post-doc in economics. I don't have much
      information about the Moszoro family outside Poland or Argentina, but father
      Antoni and my uncle Bartlomiej, who is Honorary Consul of Poland in Rosario,
      Argentina, may help if needed.

      Best regards,

      Marian

      On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:41 AM, janusz_ks <kresy@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Vincent Geffroy" <geffroy@...> wrote:
      > > Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught
      > > my eye....... that of MOSZORO. [...] My father, being Polish,
      > > enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that
      > > they were both from Lwow
      > Let's fantasise for a moment....
      > There is a Marian Moszoro, Professor of Finance, from an Armenian family
      > settled in Poland centuries ago:
      > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Moszoro
      >
      > There was a sizeable Armenian population in pre-WWII Lwow. Could it be the
      > same family?
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Richard Pach
      Hi Vincent Thanks for the e-mail and the thought. As it turns out Marian Moszoro has made contact with me and made a few points worth exploring, so who knows.
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 4, 2010
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        Hi Vincent
        Thanks for the e-mail and the thought. As it turns out Marian Moszoro has made
        contact with me and made a few points worth exploring, so who knows. Its looking
        more and more likely that I'll have to go back again to Poland and talk directly
        to people most liken Wroclaw where many of the Lwow inabitants, it  seems, were
        transferred afterWW2 . There is an author, you've probably  heard of him,
        Andrzej Drzycimski who has written books particularly to do with Westerplatte
        and Mjr Henryk Sucharski who was a close friend of my grandfather. Andrzej
        obtained much of his material from Mjr Sucharski's sister. 

        Take care
        Richard



        ________________________________
        From: Vincent Geffroy <geffroy@...>
        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:19:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH

         
        Hello Richard

        Welcome to the Kresy-Siberia 'family'. I am sure that you will find many of the
        members ready to help with information & suggestions in your quest to research
        your family history.

        Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught my
        eye....... that of MOSZORO. I presently live in Cape Town, but many years ago
        resided near Johannesburg in a town called Kempton Park. Members of my family
        belonged to the dental practice of a Dr Moszoro. My father, being Polish,
        enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that they were both
        from Lwow, although my father had been born in Zdolbunow. My sister stayed with
        Dr Moszoro's practice until she left for Vancouver in the 1990's. I do not know
        if Dr Moszoro is related to your family, but he certainly came from the area you
        mentioned & it seems coincidental that you mentioned the family as being in the
        dental profession. I doubt if Dr Moszoro is still alive as he was as old, if not
        older, than my late father who would now have been 89 years old. After a little
        local research, I discovered that an Antoinette Sophie MOSZORO graduated from
        Benoni High School in 1974. Benoni is a small town near Kempton Park, so it is
        possible that she is the daughter of Dr Moszoro. Also a Dr Wartan MOSZORO is
        listed as a member of the Kempton Park Rotary Club in March, 1975. This must be
        the dentist in question. I have been unable to find more recent information, so
        it is possible that the Moszoro family left South Africa.


        I hope that this information may be of some use to you in your search.

        Kind Regards
        Karen Geffroy (née Nikiel)

        ****************************************************************************

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Marian Moszoro
        Hi Richard, My grandfather Kazimierz used to say that all the Moszoros are related. My grandfather was born on March 1, 1911, in Kolomyja. He also joined the
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 9, 2010
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          Hi Richard,

          My grandfather Kazimierz used to say that all the Moszoros are related. My
          grandfather was born on March 1, 1911, in Kolomyja. He also joined the
          Maczek´s Army in France and moved lately to England, and to Argentina after
          the War.

          I´m CC'ing this email to my uncle in Argentina, who may have more details
          about my grandfather.

          Best regards,

          Marian

          On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Richard Pach <richardpach@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi Marian
          > Let us try to find out if we might be related. When was you grandfather
          > born? My
          > father was born in Przemyslany in 1921. This was the estate belonging to
          > his
          > grandfather whose name, I think, was Mikel Moszoro de Massilla. He was
          > married
          > to Anna von Podbielska but the surname Hamerling figures in there
          > somewhere. My
          > fathers parents were Edward Jan Pach born I believe 02/11/1891 and Joanna
          > Gryzelda Moszoro de Massilla born 09/0/1899 in Vienna.
          > Mikel was Director of Education for Galicia.
          > Edward ach was Lt. Col. in the Polish Army having served in the
          > Polish-Soviet
          > war. At the outbreak of WW2 he was stationed in Brest-Litewski and was
          > captured
          > by the Wehrmacht thus escaping the Katyn fate that befell the remaining
          > officers
          > in Brest. Joanna and her daughter Aldona were deported to Sverdlovsk and
          > Joanna
          > died in 1942 in Tashknet. Joanna survived and spent 4 years in Africa
          > before
          > returning to Poland in 1947 where she remained till her death in 1960.
          > You mention Kolomajyawhich is interesting because my father took refuge
          > there
          > when he fled In 1939.He too made it to France and joined the officer cadet
          > school at Coetquidien. Frm there to Scotland to join Gen Maczek's 1st
          > Polish
          > Armoured Division. He settled in Scotland but only returned to Poland once
          > for 4
          > weeks in 1974. He was able to speak to friends who remembered Joanna and
          > collected some photos and things.
          >
          > Best Regards
          > Richard
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: Marian Moszoro <mmoszoro@... <mmoszoro%40gmail.com>>
          > To: Kresy-Siberia <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >
          > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 10:52:40 PM
          >
          > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH
          >
          >
          > Well, my name is Marian Moszoro. My grandfather Kazimierz was born in
          > Kolomyja and studied Mechanical Engineering in Lwow. During WW2 he was
          > enrolled in the Polish Army in France, and later in the
          > Polish headquarters in London. After the War, he marred and emigrated to
          > Argentina, where my father was born.
          >
          > I was born in Argentina in 1974, moved to Poland in 1993, and then to
          > Berkeley, CA, in 2009 for a post-doc in economics. I don't have much
          > information about the Moszoro family outside Poland or Argentina, but
          > father
          > Antoni and my uncle Bartlomiej, who is Honorary Consul of Poland in
          > Rosario,
          > Argentina, may help if needed.
          >
          > Best regards,
          >
          > Marian
          >
          > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:41 AM, janusz_ks <kresy@...<kresy%40janusz.net>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com><Kresy-Siberia%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>,
          >
          > > "Vincent Geffroy" <geffroy@...> wrote:
          > > > Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught
          > > > my eye....... that of MOSZORO. [...] My father, being Polish,
          > > > enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that
          > > > they were both from Lwow
          > > Let's fantasise for a moment....
          > > There is a Marian Moszoro, Professor of Finance, from an Armenian family
          > > settled in Poland centuries ago:
          > > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Moszoro
          > >
          > > There was a sizeable Armenian population in pre-WWII Lwow. Could it be
          > the
          > > same family?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Marian Moszoro
          CC to Bartlomiej Moszoro ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 9, 2010
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            CC to Bartlomiej Moszoro

            On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Marian Moszoro <mmoszoro@...> wrote:

            > Hi Richard,
            >
            > My grandfather Kazimierz used to say that all the Moszoros are related. My
            > grandfather was born on March 1, 1911, in Kolomyja. He also joined the
            > Maczek´s Army in France and moved lately to England, and to Argentina after
            > the War.
            >
            > I´m CC'ing this email to my uncle in Argentina, who may have more details
            > about my grandfather.
            >
            > Best regards,
            >
            > Marian
            >
            >
            > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Richard Pach <richardpach@...>wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Hi Marian
            >> Let us try to find out if we might be related. When was you grandfather
            >> born? My
            >> father was born in Przemyslany in 1921. This was the estate belonging to
            >> his
            >> grandfather whose name, I think, was Mikel Moszoro de Massilla. He was
            >> married
            >> to Anna von Podbielska but the surname Hamerling figures in there
            >> somewhere. My
            >> fathers parents were Edward Jan Pach born I believe 02/11/1891 and Joanna
            >> Gryzelda Moszoro de Massilla born 09/0/1899 in Vienna.
            >> Mikel was Director of Education for Galicia.
            >> Edward ach was Lt. Col. in the Polish Army having served in the
            >> Polish-Soviet
            >> war. At the outbreak of WW2 he was stationed in Brest-Litewski and was
            >> captured
            >> by the Wehrmacht thus escaping the Katyn fate that befell the remaining
            >> officers
            >> in Brest. Joanna and her daughter Aldona were deported to Sverdlovsk and
            >> Joanna
            >> died in 1942 in Tashknet. Joanna survived and spent 4 years in Africa
            >> before
            >> returning to Poland in 1947 where she remained till her death in 1960.
            >> You mention Kolomajyawhich is interesting because my father took refuge
            >> there
            >> when he fled In 1939.He too made it to France and joined the officer cadet
            >>
            >> school at Coetquidien. Frm there to Scotland to join Gen Maczek's 1st
            >> Polish
            >> Armoured Division. He settled in Scotland but only returned to Poland once
            >> for 4
            >> weeks in 1974. He was able to speak to friends who remembered Joanna and
            >> collected some photos and things.
            >>
            >> Best Regards
            >> Richard
            >>
            >> ________________________________
            >>
            >> From: Marian Moszoro <mmoszoro@... <mmoszoro%40gmail.com>>
            >> To: Kresy-Siberia <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com<Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            >> Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 10:52:40 PM
            >>
            >> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH
            >>
            >>
            >> Well, my name is Marian Moszoro. My grandfather Kazimierz was born in
            >> Kolomyja and studied Mechanical Engineering in Lwow. During WW2 he was
            >> enrolled in the Polish Army in France, and later in the
            >> Polish headquarters in London. After the War, he marred and emigrated to
            >> Argentina, where my father was born.
            >>
            >> I was born in Argentina in 1974, moved to Poland in 1993, and then to
            >> Berkeley, CA, in 2009 for a post-doc in economics. I don't have much
            >> information about the Moszoro family outside Poland or Argentina, but
            >> father
            >> Antoni and my uncle Bartlomiej, who is Honorary Consul of Poland in
            >> Rosario,
            >> Argentina, may help if needed.
            >>
            >> Best regards,
            >>
            >> Marian
            >>
            >> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:41 AM, janusz_ks <kresy@...<kresy%40janusz.net>>
            >> wrote:
            >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com <Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com><Kresy-Siberia%
            >> 40yahoogroups.com>,
            >>
            >> > "Vincent Geffroy" <geffroy@...> wrote:
            >> > > Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught
            >> > > my eye....... that of MOSZORO. [...] My father, being Polish,
            >> > > enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that
            >> > > they were both from Lwow
            >> > Let's fantasise for a moment....
            >> > There is a Marian Moszoro, Professor of Finance, from an Armenian family
            >> > settled in Poland centuries ago:
            >> > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Moszoro
            >> >
            >> > There was a sizeable Armenian population in pre-WWII Lwow. Could it be
            >> the
            >> > same family?
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Richard Pach
            Hi Karen Most certainly a coincidence that Dr Moszoro was a dentist just as my grandmother was. Since discovered that the Moszoros were quite a prominent
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 12, 2010
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              Hi Karen
              Most certainly a coincidence that Dr Moszoro was a dentist just as my
              grandmother was. Since discovered that the Moszoros were quite a prominent
              family in Lwow. Thanks for asking about the research, its going well. I found
              out something mind-numbing about Lwow and that it has a building called the
              Scottish cafe. Now I know that we Scots have left our mark on the world, but
              never in my wildest imagination would I have dream about a connecion with Lwow.
              I'm now wondering what that connection is. Pure speculation, but I wonder if
              theconnection might go back to the Reformation when Scottish Presbyterians were
              being persecuted by the King. Poland was one of the few countries where no blood
              was spilt in those troubled times. I have already put this piece of
              speculationto one of our national historians. It would be inteeresting if ay of
              the Group has any information on the Lwow-Scotland connection 

              Best Regards
              Richard
              12 November 2010    




              ________________________________
              From: Vincent Geffroy <geffroy@...>
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:19:56 PM
              Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH

               
              Hello Richard

              Welcome to the Kresy-Siberia 'family'. I am sure that you will find many of the
              members ready to help with information & suggestions in your quest to research
              your family history.

              Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught my
              eye....... that of MOSZORO. I presently live in Cape Town, but many years ago
              resided near Johannesburg in a town called Kempton Park. Members of my family
              belonged to the dental practice of a Dr Moszoro. My father, being Polish,
              enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that they were both
              from Lwow, although my father had been born in Zdolbunow. My sister stayed with
              Dr Moszoro's practice until she left for Vancouver in the 1990's. I do not know
              if Dr Moszoro is related to your family, but he certainly came from the area you
              mentioned & it seems coincidental that you mentioned the family as being in the
              dental profession. I doubt if Dr Moszoro is still alive as he was as old, if not
              older, than my late father who would now have been 89 years old. After a little
              local research, I discovered that an Antoinette Sophie MOSZORO graduated from
              Benoni High School in 1974. Benoni is a small town near Kempton Park, so it is
              possible that she is the daughter of Dr Moszoro. Also a Dr Wartan MOSZORO is
              listed as a member of the Kempton Park Rotary Club in March, 1975. This must be
              the dentist in question. I have been unable to find more recent information, so
              it is possible that the Moszoro family left South Africa.


              I hope that this information may be of some use to you in your search.

              Kind Regards
              Karen Geffroy (née Nikiel)

              ****************************************************************************

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Richard Pach
              Hi Jan Thanks for that info. Received copies of Edwards army service record from the military archives  in Warsaw today. These confirm his DOB as you
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 12, 2010
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                Hi Jan
                Thanks for that info. Received copies of Edwards army service record from the
                military archives  in Warsaw today. These confirm his DOB as you originally
                suggested.

                Regards
                Richard



                ________________________________
                From: JanZ <janz@...>
                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 6:26:43 PM
                Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH

                 
                Richard

                Try using this site to search for your family in various pre-war directories:
                http://www.genealogyindexer.org/

                e.g. searching for Pach Edward links you to various directories, amongst them
                one suggests his DOB to be 2/11/1891

                http://www.genealogyindexer.org/frame/m12/2/d
                http://www.genealogyindexer.org/frame/m2/52/d

                For info on POWs you should contact:
                Dział Dokumentacji i Biblioteka Centralnego Muzeum Jeńców Wojennych w
                �ambinowicach-Opolu
                http://www.cmjw.pl/www/index.php

                They have details of Polish POWs. They did send me details of my grandfathers
                imprisonment in various camps including Oflag VII Marnau.

                Also some interesting Murnau photos here:
                http://hollow.one.free.fr/

                Good luck!

                Janusz
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Richard Pach
                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 9:31 PM
                Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH

                I only joined the group yesterday. May I first introduce myself, my name is
                Richard Pach and I am researching the Polish side of my family, in the hope that

                by joining the group, someone might know information or know where I can access
                information about the period of the deportations from the Borderlands or if
                anyone can share information about life in Lwow and Brest-Litewski from the end
                of WW1 to 1939.
                Firstly my father was born in Przemyslany about 80km south east of Lwow in 1921.

                My grandfather Edward Pach was still cleaning up the last pockets of Soviet
                rwistance having served as an officer with the distinction in the Polish-Soviet
                War. He was decorated with the Virtuti Militari and I believe he won it for
                action in the Battle of Warsaw. My grandfather had sent my grandmother to
                Przemyslany to her parents estate for safe keeping. I am not certain but I think

                they may have been living in Krakow. Edward Pach and my grandmother Joanna
                Gryzelda were both born in Vienna, Joanna in 1899, Edward’s year of birth I do

                not know. My father told me that he believed that they were married in Vienna.
                Joanna’s parents were Mikel Mozsoro de Massila (or Hamerling) and Anna von
                Podbielska. My father told me that his grandfather Mikel had been Director of
                Education in Galicia during the time of Austro-Hungarian rule and after. The
                family were Roman Catholics and I have no reason to suppose that my father was
                not baptised in the local Catholic Church there.
                If anyone can advise on the chances of my finding records in the
                Catholic Church in Przemyslany, I would be delighted to hear or if anyone can
                shed any light on my fathers grandparents hopefully someone whose forebears came

                from Lwow or Przemyslany.
                I am not clear how long my father lived in Lwow or Krakow as my
                grandfather Edward was a professional soldier but I hope to find this from
                Military records and have already sent a letter to Warsaw. What I do know is
                that at the outbreak of WW2 the family was living in Brest-Litewski. I know that

                my grandfather was as a Lt. Col. Deputy Commander and Quartermaster of the 82nd
                Infantry Regiment. I think, but am not sure if this was part of the Border
                Defence Corps. I also think that he may have been transferred to the 35th
                Infantry regiment as he saw action against the Wehrmacht, was captured and
                incarcerated at Oflag VII A Murnau for the duration of the War. He is not
                thought to have returned to Poland and all communication came to an end in 1946.

                He died probably in Germany or an outside chance in England. The reason for the
                latter is that he was a very close friend of Major Henryk Sucharski and may have

                had help from Gen. Anders to come to England. I have contacted the Sikorski
                Institute in London for any information.
                The saddest aspect of all this concerns my grandmother and my aunt
                Aldona. Both were deported from Brest-Litewski to Sverdlovsk Oblast. Aldona
                died in Tashkent Uzbekistan in 1942 probably after the amnesty. She was 19
                years old at most. Joanna’s details I found in archives in the Sikorski
                Institute. In the archives at the Kresy-Siberia website I found that she ended
                up in Zambia at Bwana Mkubwa. She is mentioned as Gryzelda. From her letters to
                my father Tehran, Iraq, Bazy? Ahwasu? are mentioned. I know that she was an
                accomplished musician and professional dentist. She returned to Poland in 1947,
                lived in Legnica then Krynica and died in 1960 in Katowice Voivodship.

                Well that’s it for know, the floor is yours if anyone anywhere has testimony
                from any survivors of the deportation or perhaps remembers Joanna or Aldona
                Pach. Any other help would be greatly appreciated.

                Regards to all
                Richard Pach

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Vincent Geffroy
                Hi Richard Whilst researching my family surname some years ago, I was somewhat surprised to learn that there were Scots in Poland in the 1500-1600 s, some of
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 12, 2010
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                  Hi Richard

                  Whilst researching my family surname some years ago, I was somewhat surprised to learn that there were Scots in Poland in the 1500-1600's, some of whom stayed. There was a suggestion that NIKIEL could have been a local adaption of the Scottish NICHOL. Maybe, who knows!

                  Regards
                  Karen


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Richard Pach
                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH



                  Hi Karen
                  Most certainly a coincidence that Dr Moszoro was a dentist just as my
                  grandmother was. Since discovered that the Moszoros were quite a prominent
                  family in Lwow. Thanks for asking about the research, its going well. I found
                  out something mind-numbing about Lwow and that it has a building called the
                  Scottish cafe. Now I know that we Scots have left our mark on the world, but
                  never in my wildest imagination would I have dream about a connecion with Lwow.
                  I'm now wondering what that connection is. Pure speculation, but I wonder if
                  theconnection might go back to the Reformation when Scottish Presbyterians were
                  being persecuted by the King. Poland was one of the few countries where no blood
                  was spilt in those troubled times. I have already put this piece of
                  speculationto one of our national historians. It would be inteeresting if ay of
                  the Group has any information on the Lwow-Scotland connection

                  Best Regards
                  Richard
                  12 November 2010

                  ________________________________
                  From: Vincent Geffroy <geffroy@...>
                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:19:56 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH


                  Hello Richard

                  Welcome to the Kresy-Siberia 'family'. I am sure that you will find many of the
                  members ready to help with information & suggestions in your quest to research
                  your family history.

                  Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught my
                  eye....... that of MOSZORO. I presently live in Cape Town, but many years ago
                  resided near Johannesburg in a town called Kempton Park. Members of my family
                  belonged to the dental practice of a Dr Moszoro. My father, being Polish,
                  enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that they were both
                  from Lwow, although my father had been born in Zdolbunow. My sister stayed with
                  Dr Moszoro's practice until she left for Vancouver in the 1990's. I do not know
                  if Dr Moszoro is related to your family, but he certainly came from the area you
                  mentioned & it seems coincidental that you mentioned the family as being in the
                  dental profession. I doubt if Dr Moszoro is still alive as he was as old, if not
                  older, than my late father who would now have been 89 years old. After a little
                  local research, I discovered that an Antoinette Sophie MOSZORO graduated from
                  Benoni High School in 1974. Benoni is a small town near Kempton Park, so it is
                  possible that she is the daughter of Dr Moszoro. Also a Dr Wartan MOSZORO is
                  listed as a member of the Kempton Park Rotary Club in March, 1975. This must be
                  the dentist in question. I have been unable to find more recent information, so
                  it is possible that the Moszoro family left South Africa.

                  I hope that this information may be of some use to you in your search.

                  Kind Regards
                  Karen Geffroy (née Nikiel)

                  ****************************************************************************

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • julie sheppard
                  Richard, I find this Scottish/Lwow connection a very interesting observation and theory! I am sure someone must have researched where persecuted Scottish
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 12, 2010
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                    Richard, I find this Scottish/Lwow connection a very interesting observation and theory! I am sure someone must have researched where persecuted Scottish Presbyterians took sanctuary. Your local family history centre/ library/Council archivists should be able to advise. I found a Belgian link in one of my family tree threads in the 1880s' and found that the former City Archivist had personally researched the reasons for Belgian immigration into the Swansea valley - to work in the zinc industry. It is always so suprising to find out how much research has been done.
                    Best regards,
                    Julie (Jachimiak) Sheppard
                    Neath, Wales, UK

                    To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                    From: richardpach@...
                    Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:06:45 -0800
                    Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH




























                    Hi Karen

                    Most certainly a coincidence that Dr Moszoro was a dentist just as my

                    grandmother was. Since discovered that the Moszoros were quite a prominent

                    family in Lwow. Thanks for asking about the research, its going well. I found

                    out something mind-numbing about Lwow and that it has a building called the

                    Scottish cafe. Now I know that we Scots have left our mark on the world, but

                    never in my wildest imagination would I have dream about a connecion with Lwow.

                    I'm now wondering what that connection is. Pure speculation, but I wonder if

                    theconnection might go back to the Reformation when Scottish Presbyterians were

                    being persecuted by the King. Poland was one of the few countries where no blood

                    was spilt in those troubled times. I have already put this piece of

                    speculationto one of our national historians. It would be inteeresting if ay of

                    the Group has any information on the Lwow-Scotland connection



                    Best Regards

                    Richard

                    12 November 2010



                    ________________________________

                    From: Vincent Geffroy <geffroy@...>

                    To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:19:56 PM

                    Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH





                    Hello Richard



                    Welcome to the Kresy-Siberia 'family'. I am sure that you will find many of the

                    members ready to help with information & suggestions in your quest to research

                    your family history.



                    Whilst reading your E-Mail, one of the surnames you mentioned caught my

                    eye....... that of MOSZORO. I presently live in Cape Town, but many years ago

                    resided near Johannesburg in a town called Kempton Park. Members of my family

                    belonged to the dental practice of a Dr Moszoro. My father, being Polish,

                    enquired what part of Poland he came from. It turned out that they were both

                    from Lwow, although my father had been born in Zdolbunow. My sister stayed with

                    Dr Moszoro's practice until she left for Vancouver in the 1990's. I do not know

                    if Dr Moszoro is related to your family, but he certainly came from the area you

                    mentioned & it seems coincidental that you mentioned the family as being in the

                    dental profession. I doubt if Dr Moszoro is still alive as he was as old, if not

                    older, than my late father who would now have been 89 years old. After a little

                    local research, I discovered that an Antoinette Sophie MOSZORO graduated from

                    Benoni High School in 1974. Benoni is a small town near Kempton Park, so it is

                    possible that she is the daughter of Dr Moszoro. Also a Dr Wartan MOSZORO is

                    listed as a member of the Kempton Park Rotary Club in March, 1975. This must be

                    the dentist in question. I have been unable to find more recent information, so

                    it is possible that the Moszoro family left South Africa.



                    I hope that this information may be of some use to you in your search.



                    Kind Regards

                    Karen Geffroy (née Nikiel)



                    ****************************************************************************



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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Zenon Kuzik
                    Dear Richard, Indeed, there was a coffee house in Lwow called the Kawiarnia Szkocka (Scottish Café) on Akademicka Street. A bank now occupies the site, and
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 13, 2010
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                      Dear Richard,

                      Indeed, there was a coffee house in Lwow called the "Kawiarnia Szkocka"
                      (Scottish Café) on Akademicka Street. A bank now occupies the site, and the
                      street is currently called Shevchenko Avenue. Here is a brief article about
                      it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Caf%C3%A9 , and a recent
                      photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jwsk/123874417/ . How it received such a
                      name, I do not know.

                      One of the old streets in the heart of Lwow was called ul. Szkockiej (Scottish
                      Street) until 1871. Regrettably, to my mind, the name was then changed to
                      Serbian Street (ul. Serbskiej). It is still called by the latter appellation.
                      The Scottish connection with Lwow relates to the fact that Scots merchants, who
                      were active in the grain trade, settled in Lwow in the sixteenth century, and
                      lived in - you guessed it - Scottish Street. I think that one of those
                      merchants is possibly an ancestor. If any Scots moved to Lwow due to religious
                      persecution, they were just as likely to have been Catholics, as Catholicism was
                      outlawed by the Calvinistic Presbyterian establishment in Scotland.

                      Lang may yer lum reek!

                      Zenon Kuzik
                      Sealainn Nuadh ["New Zealand" in Scots Gaelic]

                      From: Richard Pach <richardpach@...>
                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sat, 13 November, 2010 9:06:45 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] FAMILY RESEARCH


                      Hi Karen
                      Most certainly a coincidence that Dr Moszoro was a dentist just as my
                      grandmother was. Since discovered that the Moszoros were quite a prominent
                      family in Lwow. Thanks for asking about the research, its going well. I found
                      out something mind-numbing about Lwow and that it has a building called the
                      Scottish cafe. Now I know that we Scots have left our mark on the world, but
                      never in my wildest imagination would I have dream about a connecion with Lwow.
                      I'm now wondering what that connection is. Pure speculation, but I wonder if
                      theconnection might go back to the Reformation when Scottish Presbyterians
                      were

                      being persecuted by the King. Poland was one of the few countries where no
                      blood

                      was spilt in those troubled times. I have already put this piece of
                      speculationto one of our national historians. It would be inteeresting if ay of

                      the Group has any information on the Lwow-Scotland connectionÂ

                      Best Regards
                      Richard






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • martin stepek
                      Hi Richard The Lwow-Scotland connection needn t be related to the Reformation in Scotland. It is estimated that up to 60,000 Scottish merchants and traders
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 13, 2010
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                        Hi Richard

                        The Lwow-Scotland connection needn't be related to the Reformation in Scotland. It is estimated that up to 60,000 Scottish merchants and traders were working, travelling and living in Poland in the 1600s. More were hired as bodyguards of the nobility in the 17th and 18th centuries; perhaps mercenaries is a less kind description! An Alexander Chalmers, respelled Czamer was four times elected Mayor of Warsaw in the late 1600s and early 1700s.
                        More details at http://www.homecomingscotland2009.com/whats-on/events/public-lecture-by-neal-ascherson-brothers-and-sisters-for-a-that-rediscovering-the-polish-scottish-relationship-chaired-by-professor-tom-devine-5119.html

                        I have a book published in 1969 by the people who then ran the Sikorski Club in Glasgow. It is called Scotland and Poland - A Chapter of Forgotten History. I live in Hamilton; if you are still in Scotland I'd be happy to lend it to you. It wasa gifted to my father and inscribed as such so is of great personal importance to me. It's a great summary of the long warm history between the two nations, both of whom suffered from having more powerful neighbours.

                        Another book, the history of the Sikorski Club has a passage from Polish artists who perfomed to raise money for Scottish Aid to Poland during the years of martial law in the early 1980s. It reads
                        "We wish to express our gratitude for your concern and sympathy for our homeland in our present tragedy - gratitude for your generous gifts - gifts of clothing and food and medicines and a hundred other much appreciated things.
                        "We are deeply moved by your kindness and your caring. Poland thanks you. We shall never forget this.God bless you."
                        Such is the relationship between our two countries.

                        I am at present meeting with other Scots-Poles to create a Scottish-Polish Heritage group to maybe republish such works, tend the graves of our parents' generation and publicise their whereabouts. For example General Maczek head of the 1st Polish Armoured Division lived and died in Scotland though he is buried in Breda, Holland as his wish was to be buried alongside the soldiers who died under his leadership. Three Polish Generals' graves lie side by side in Costorphine, Edinburgh and these should be restored and decorated and publcised and visited. We'd also like to eventually arrange mini-tours of key Polish sites in Scotland as many of the members of this group's parents were stationed in Scotland for some time. If this idea appeals to you let me know and maybe we can meet up to discuss further.

                        It is my intention to use this new group to also fundraise for Kresy-Siberia Virtual Museum work too.

                        Warm Regards
                        Martin Stepek
                        Hamilton
                        Scotland






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Richard Pach
                        Hi Martin This is going to be some co-incidence but was your father Jan Stepek and did you go to Holy Cross High School? I was there 1961-67 and I have a vague
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 14, 2010
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                          Hi Martin
                          This is going to be some co-incidence but was your father Jan Stepek and did you
                          go to Holy Cross High School? I was there 1961-67 and I have a vague
                          recollection that there was a Stepek in the year below me. I'm wondering if that
                          was you? I am doing research on teh polish side of my family and have got back
                          as far as 1865. I was kind of execting this but they are a mixture of
                          everything, Polish, German, Austrian, Armenian and Hungarian. Must try and
                          access your book some time. Is the Sikorski club still thiving. I must try and
                          visit it the next time I'm over in Glasgow.

                          Best Regards
                          Richard




                          ________________________________
                          From: martin stepek <mstepek@...>
                          To: kresy <kresy-siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 12:38:02 PM
                          Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH

                           

                          Hi Richard

                          The Lwow-Scotland connection needn't be related to the Reformation in Scotland.
                          It is estimated that up to 60,000 Scottish merchants and traders were working,
                          travelling and living in Poland in the 1600s. More were hired as bodyguards of
                          the nobility in the 17th and 18th centuries; perhaps mercenaries is a less kind
                          description! An Alexander Chalmers, respelled Czamer was four times elected
                          Mayor of Warsaw in the late 1600s and early 1700s.

                          More details at
                          http://www.homecomingscotland2009.com/whats-on/events/public-lecture-by-neal-ascherson-brothers-and-sisters-for-a-that-rediscovering-the-polish-scottish-relationship-chaired-by-professor-tom-devine-5119.html


                          I have a book published in 1969 by the people who then ran the Sikorski Club in
                          Glasgow. It is called Scotland and Poland - A Chapter of Forgotten History. I
                          live in Hamilton; if you are still in Scotland I'd be happy to lend it to you.
                          It wasa gifted to my father and inscribed as such so is of great personal
                          importance to me. It's a great summary of the long warm history between the two
                          nations, both of whom suffered from having more powerful neighbours.

                          Another book, the history of the Sikorski Club has a passage from Polish artists
                          who perfomed to raise money for Scottish Aid to Poland during the years of
                          martial law in the early 1980s. It reads
                          "We wish to express our gratitude for your concern and sympathy for our homeland
                          in our present tragedy - gratitude for your generous gifts - gifts of clothing
                          and food and medicines and a hundred other much appreciated things.
                          "We are deeply moved by your kindness and your caring. Poland thanks you. We
                          shall never forget this.God bless you."
                          Such is the relationship between our two countries.

                          I am at present meeting with other Scots-Poles to create a Scottish-Polish
                          Heritage group to maybe republish such works, tend the graves of our parents'
                          generation and publicise their whereabouts. For example General Maczek head of
                          the 1st Polish Armoured Division lived and died in Scotland though he is buried
                          in Breda, Holland as his wish was to be buried alongside the soldiers who died
                          under his leadership. Three Polish Generals' graves lie side by side in
                          Costorphine, Edinburgh and these should be restored and decorated and publcised
                          and visited. We'd also like to eventually arrange mini-tours of key Polish sites
                          in Scotland as many of the members of this group's parents were stationed in
                          Scotland for some time. If this idea appeals to you let me know and maybe we can
                          meet up to discuss further.

                          It is my intention to use this new group to also fundraise for Kresy-Siberia
                          Virtual Museum work too.

                          Warm Regards
                          Martin Stepek
                          Hamilton
                          Scotland



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rysiek Grzybowski
                          Dear Martin, Most interesting of Scottish-Polish historical links. I have come across several books on this topic, but your information and suggested links
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 14, 2010
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                            Dear Martin,
                            Most interesting of Scottish-Polish historical links.
                            I have come across several books on this topic, but your information and
                            suggested links gladly will take on.
                            Regards,
                            Rysiek

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of martin stepek
                            Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 12:38 PM
                            To: kresy
                            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH



                            Hi Richard

                            The Lwow-Scotland connection needn't be related to the Reformation in
                            Scotland. It is estimated that up to 60,000 Scottish merchants and
                            traders were working, travelling and living in Poland in the 1600s. More
                            were hired as bodyguards of the nobility in the 17th and 18th centuries;
                            perhaps mercenaries is a less kind description! An Alexander Chalmers,
                            respelled Czamer was four times elected Mayor of Warsaw in the late
                            1600s and early 1700s.
                            More details at
                            http://www.homecomingscotland2009.com/whats-on/events/public-lecture-by-
                            neal-ascherson-brothers-and-sisters-for-a-that-rediscovering-the-polish-
                            scottish-relationship-chaired-by-professor-tom-devine-5119.html

                            I have a book published in 1969 by the people who then ran the Sikorski
                            Club in Glasgow. It is called Scotland and Poland - A Chapter of
                            Forgotten History. I live in Hamilton; if you are still in Scotland I'd
                            be happy to lend it to you. It wasa gifted to my father and inscribed as
                            such so is of great personal importance to me. It's a great summary of
                            the long warm history between the two nations, both of whom suffered
                            from having more powerful neighbours.

                            Another book, the history of the Sikorski Club has a passage from Polish
                            artists who perfomed to raise money for Scottish Aid to Poland during
                            the years of martial law in the early 1980s. It reads
                            "We wish to express our gratitude for your concern and sympathy for our
                            homeland in our present tragedy - gratitude for your generous gifts -
                            gifts of clothing and food and medicines and a hundred other much
                            appreciated things.
                            "We are deeply moved by your kindness and your caring. Poland thanks
                            you. We shall never forget this.God bless you."
                            Such is the relationship between our two countries.

                            I am at present meeting with other Scots-Poles to create a
                            Scottish-Polish Heritage group to maybe republish such works, tend the
                            graves of our parents' generation and publicise their whereabouts. For
                            example General Maczek head of the 1st Polish Armoured Division lived
                            and died in Scotland though he is buried in Breda, Holland as his wish
                            was to be buried alongside the soldiers who died under his leadership.
                            Three Polish Generals' graves lie side by side in Costorphine, Edinburgh
                            and these should be restored and decorated and publcised and visited.
                            We'd also like to eventually arrange mini-tours of key Polish sites in
                            Scotland as many of the members of this group's parents were stationed
                            in Scotland for some time. If this idea appeals to you let me know and
                            maybe we can meet up to discuss further.

                            It is my intention to use this new group to also fundraise for
                            Kresy-Siberia Virtual Museum work too.

                            Warm Regards
                            Martin Stepek
                            Hamilton
                            Scotland



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • martin stepek
                            Yes, my father is Jan Stepek, and is still alive. My eldest brother John went to Holy Cross High School. Small world! The Sikorski Club is doing quite well and
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 15, 2010
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                              Yes, my father is Jan Stepek, and is still alive.
                              My eldest brother John went to Holy Cross High School. Small world!
                              The Sikorski Club is doing quite well and has a committed board but needs better resourced.

                              I'm posting this to the group only because some might be curious to know the answers to the questions you raised. If you want to meet up or continue chatting email me directly.

                              Warm regards
                              Martin




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Richard Pach
                              Hi Martin Smaller world still, my wife, Claire, was in the same class as your sister Teresa. Claire s father was Willie Coyle who taught Maths at Holy Cross.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 15, 2010
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                                Hi Martin
                                Smaller world still, my wife, Claire, was in the same class as your sister
                                Teresa. Claire's father was Willie Coyle who taught Maths at Holy Cross. Yes I
                                remember now John, your older brother although I did not know him personally.

                                Best regards
                                Richard 

                                 



                                ________________________________
                                From: martin stepek <mstepek@...>
                                To: kresy <kresy-siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 9:08:35 AM
                                Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: FAMILY RESEARCH

                                 

                                Yes, my father is Jan Stepek, and is still alive.
                                My eldest brother John went to Holy Cross High School. Small world!
                                The Sikorski Club is doing quite well and has a committed board but needs better
                                resourced.

                                I'm posting this to the group only because some might be curious to know the
                                answers to the questions you raised. If you want to meet up or continue chatting
                                email me directly.

                                Warm regards
                                Martin




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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