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Re: Alert for the Polish Media Issues (PMI) - Polish guards serving

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  • tinijoroga
    HI BACK, ZENON! Glad you clarified. So your Opole friends took your statement in stride whereas mine asked for your source. I’m sure they will be
    Message 1 of 33 , Mar 29, 2010
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      HI BACK, ZENON!

      Glad you clarified. So your Opole friends took your statement in stride whereas mine asked for your source. I’m sure they will be relieved to know that your statement was not from some acclaimed and uncontested book, but the perception of one of the victims (your father in this case) as to who of the POLISH Kapos, and not of ALL the Kapos, were the worst.

      No question, but were I of Ukrainian, Lithuanian (not linked or encompassed as ethnic Poles by anyone) or of Jewish lineage, I would have cringed, at that kind of assessment as posted on the internet by Menachem. Who was the worst or who was the most kind remains in the eyes of the beholder, or in the eyes of the victim, as in this case. Obviously, votes of the dead can’t be tallied and they are in the majority.

      Suffice to say, horrendous times have been had by all. Rare is the Polish family who was not adversely affected by either the Nazis, Soviets or Communists, or by all three as in my case and hard to determine which enemy did the most damage to Poland and its people.

      I did not address the Bandara issue this time, but it's not monuments that I'd be raising to him........ :)

      PS So you have some “vile characters” in New Zealand! You must also have raided some from here because if you’ve heard that we have jails or that some of the vile ones still walk free, it’s only a myth!!! :)

      BOZENA - Florida, USA

      --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Bozena,
      >
      > What I posted about my father's impressions of Auschwitz-Birkenau wasn't contradicted by your sources. He was saying that the worst Polish kapos HE came across were from Silesia, as opposed to other regions of Poland. He was very frightened of them, but I won't go into the details of what he witnessed. (Lithuanians and Ukrainians aren't ethnic Poles.) Just because there were some nasty Silesians doesn't mean all Silesians are horrible people. There is no need for your Opole friends to be upset!
      >
      > Incidentally, in gregolma's post, this definition of "Kapo" was provided: "Kapos received more privileges than normal prisoners, towards whom they were often brutal. They were often convicts who were offered this work in exchange for a reduced sentence or parole". This tallies with my father's description of those terrible people.
      >
      > Greetings from New Zealand (we have some vile characters over here as well),
      >
      > Zenon Kuzik
      >
      > PS I don't know whether Stepan Bandera's brothers (killed by Polish kapos in A-B) were involved in the slaughter of Poles (and Ukrainians opposed to the OUN/UPA), but they were murdered nevertheless. Two wrongs don't make a right. This observation isn't directed at you, Bozena, but at anyone who thinks the Bandera brothers deserved the manner of their death. Considering his crimes against Poland, SB was treated very leniently by the Polish State!
      >
      > PPS I have Silesian friends who wouldn't be at all offended by my post.
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: tinijoroga <tinijoroga@...>
      > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sat, 27 March, 2010 12:53:12 PM
      > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Alert for the Polish Media Issues (PMI) - Polish guards serving
      >
      >
      > HI ZENON:
      >
      > No question but that each nation has its saints and sinners â€" I doubt anyone would dispute that! In fact, the first link posted by Janusz_ks pointed out the â€Å"saints� among the Polish Kapos:
      >
      > http://www.jewishma g.co.il/117mag/ iremember/ iremember. htm
      >
      > While his second link showed the â€Å"sinners�, Poles among them, whose actions in these camps besmirched the â€Å"Immaculate Name of the Polish Nation� (title conferred by him on Poland, not by me!).
      >
      > http://menachemkuch ar.com/Writings/ 106.htm
      >
      > Man’s inhumanity to man is truly incomprehensible especially when such unspeakable crimes are perpetrated by one’s own countrymen upon their own such as in the case of Father Popieluszko. However, the degree of brutality is a matter of perception by the victims, and you pointed to the Silesians as being the most brutal. Yet, according to the above link, they did not hold that title.
      >
      > I hesitate to quote from that source (second link above) since it is not one I researched or originally provided to the Group, but Janusz_ks who contributes often, did so as verification for his quote that Polish and Ukrainian guards were ready to beat and shoot inmates (post #38854). So that link was handy and my loyalty to some friends whose roots are from Silesia (Opole) and who just now saw your post, prompts me to â€" requesting also the source of your information.
      >
      > Obviously, taking second, third or tenth place in inhumanity, is not indicative of the degree of kindness of the perpetrators but as it was pointed out to me, Silesians got no mention in the above article written, I guess, by Menachem Kuchar. Nonetheless, those of us who connect by lineage to those who are mentioned therein, will shudder as I do when seeing â€Å"Polish� connected in any way with such horrific crimes. The following is a quote from the link above:
      >
      > "The Lithuanians started savagely murdering the Jews before the arrival of Hitler's emissaries. From all reports, they compete with the Ukrainians as the most savage and brutal of concentration camp guards, and the Poles, themselves persecuted by the Germans, even managed a pogrom or in two in 1946 aimed at returning "Polish" Jews. Ukrainians actively volunteered for the S.S., and after a "special" course, joined the full ranks, wearing the same black uniform. I am told, by first hand sources, they were more brutal than the "native Germans". But perhaps the worst collaboration of all, the evilest of humanity, were Jews who worked and collaborated with the regime. These were the so-called Capos, the "court Jews". Unfortunately this cooperation did not represent a phenomenon new to Jewish history."
      >
      > BOZENA â€" Florida, USA
      >
      > --- In Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com, Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Ewa (and others following this thread),
      > >
      > > Unfortunately, there were ethnic Polish kapos in the Nazi concentration camps. My father, who was imprisoned in some of them (including Auschwitz-Birkenau) , has recounted many times how scared he was of the Polish kapos, especially in A-B. Of the various nationalities serving as kapos, he says that the Poles were among the most brutal (and the worst were Silesians). Polish kapos killed Stepan Bandera's brothers at A-B. All this proves that every nation has its saints and sinners, Poland being no exception. Then what about the sadistic Poles who were members of the secret police under the Polish Communist regime? The Solidarity-aligned priest, Jerzy Popieluszko, was tortured and done to death in a most appalling fashion by fellow Poles.
      > >
      > > Sincerely,
      > >
      > > Zenon Kuzik
      > > New Zealand
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • JennyS
      Eve, maybe you were recalling Lukas sentence on the Poles refusal to serve in the General Government. Part of the reason for the exclusive German character
      Message 33 of 33 , Apr 3 10:44 PM
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        Eve, maybe you were recalling Lukas' sentence on the Poles' refusal to serve in the General Government. "Part of the reason for the exclusive German character of its (the General Government's) administration was the fact that no prominent Poles were ever willing to collaborate with the Nazis." From "The Forgotten Holocaust".
        Somewhere way back I must have read about there being Polish guards in camps since this wrongly assumed and unresearched fact existed in the back of my mind. Distinguishing between kapos and guards was therefore quite important to me.
        Jenny Skulski
        Vancouver, BC

        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Eve5J@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear Group:
        >
        > I have looked in A Question of Honor more than once and other books and
        > references for the entry regarding Polish people refusing to serve as guards
        > in the camps, and so have others. We have all come up empty-handed, yet I
        > have learned a couple of things. Sorry if I am being repetitive now. The
        > first is, all guards in the camps were SS; therefore, there were no ethnic
        > Polish guards. Also there is a big difference between concentration camp
        > guards and kapos. Kapos were also prisoners and served in basically an
        > overseer capacity. Most kapos were German, but there were also a few from
        > other ethnic groups, including Jews, ethnic Poles, and others.
        >
        > I will continue to look for the reference which I could swear I read in A
        > Question of Honor.
        >
        > Finally, the original link Danuta provided appears to be a Ukrainian
        > website and group. I sent the original post to Jan Niechwiadowicz of the Polish
        > Media Issues group. We both agreed that there is really nothing that can
        > be done about the website. Jan hoped to respond to the group but was
        > extremely busy and it seems this string has now run its course.
        >
        > Thank you to all who helped me try to locate the reference and for the
        > facts provided. If I ever locate the reference, I will inform the group.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Eve
        >
        > In a message dated 3/25/2010 11:38:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Eve
        > wrote:
        >
        > All:
        >
        > I am unable to follow the group with a fine toothed comb right now as I am
        > swamped from all sides. However, I read in A Question of Honor that the
        > Nazis were unable to, for lack of a better word, get ethnic Poles to work in
        > the camps as guards or kapos. Poles flat out refused. I hope this is
        > what this string is about--the misbranding, or misplacing, or mislabeling or
        > worse--of Poles as kapos since they did not work in the camps in those
        > capacities.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Eve
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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