Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"

Expand Messages
  • Stefan Wisniowski
    The reference to alleged killings is distressing because it suggests that perhaps they did not occur, which would be akin to holocaust denial . However, I
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 1, 2007
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      The reference to "alleged killings" is distressing because it suggests that perhaps they did not occur, which would be akin to "holocaust denial".

      However, I believe that Carol has been surfing the web for Kresy information recently and finding lots of references and articles which she is sending on to the group, sometimes without any further information.

      Carol and others, when you do this, please remember to provide information on where you are sourcing material from, and also please explain why you are sending it on to the group (E.G., this is to show another point of view, though we may not agree with it).

      Thank you

      Stefan Wisniowski
      Moderator
      Sydney Australia

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Andy Golebiowski
      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:18 PM
      Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"


      I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned message from an email address attributed
      to "Carol Dove".

      "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
      of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in the..."

      "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?

      Andy Golebiowski
      Buffalo, NY
      USA

      Recent Activity
      a.. 1New Members
      b.. 2New Photos
      c.. 1New Files
      Visit Your Group
      Yahoo! News
      Sexual Health

      Get important

      sex health news

      Yahoo! Finance
      It's Now Personal

      Guides, news,

      advice & more.

      Real Food Group
      Share recipes,

      restaurant ratings

      and favorite meals.
      .


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carol Dove
      Andy, I am sorry if I disturbed you. I put the date to make sure no one thought this was todays news. To me it was the importance of finding documents and
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 1, 2007
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Andy,

        I am sorry if I disturbed you. I put the date to make sure no one
        thought this was todays news. To me it was the importance of finding
        documents and where they ended up. I know this group had a lot to say
        on "alleged" killing and therefore "discarded in a dumpster" was
        what I was pointing out. Hence the title, "Check the garbage". I
        would like to know what else was there as this was a partial list.
        With fires in Ukraine taking documents and documents not being
        released I think finding of documents reguardless of the alligations
        they had (that I felt we all were aware have been made) would be of
        intrest. I am truly sorry if this disturbed you as that was never my
        intent. Carol

        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Golebiowski"
        <andywbuffalo@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned message from an
        email address attributed
        > to "Carol Dove".
        >
        > "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
        > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
        the..."
        >
        > "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?
        >
        > Andy Golebiowski
        > Buffalo, NY
        > USA
        >
        > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@>
        wrote:
        > >
        > > A treasure trove of Ukrainian historical archive was recently
        > > discovered in Poland by Yevhen Misilo, director of the Ukrainian
        > > Archive Center of Documentation and Studies in Warsaw. On
        December 7,
        > > 2002, Mr. Misilo related his sensational findings to a packed
        house
        > > at the Shevchenko Scientific Society (NTSh) in New York City.
        > >
        > > Among the material found in Warsaw were the archives of the NTSh,
        > > Prosvita and Ridna Shkola societies in Lviv, those of the Legion
        of
        > > Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, the Galician Army, the army of the
        Ukrainian
        > > National Republic, the Western Ukrainian National Republic, the
        > > Ukrainian Representation to the Polish Parliament, to name just
        the
        > > major ones, as well as the personal archives of a number of
        prominent
        > > Ukrainians, among them Dmytro Dontsov.
        > >
        > > All of these archives were removed from Lviv in 1944 by the
        > > retreating Nazis, who brought them to Silesia, now part of
        western
        > > Poland. From there most of the materials were transferred to the
        > > National Library in Warsaw.
        > >
        > > In 1992 Mr. Misilo found these treasures in Warsaw, discarded in
        a
        > > dumpster. It took seven years of his efforts to get the Polish
        > > authorities to acknowledge the existence of these archives and
        then
        > > to make them available for study.
        > >
        > > Since then, Mr. Misilo has been researching and cataloging this
        chunk
        > > of Ukrainian history with the part-time help of Halyna Svarnyk, a
        > > prominent archivist from Lviv.
        > >
        > > Equally bizarre has been the fate of the smaller portion of the
        Lviv
        > > archive, which remained in Silesia and is now stored in the
        > > Ossolineum building in Wroclaw. To this day, the Poles deny its
        > > possession and won't allow anyone to research it.
        > >
        > > Very disappointing, said Mr. Misilo, has been the attitude of
        > > Ukrainian government officials, who, despite his numerous
        appeals,
        > > have refused to get involved in trying to gain access to or
        > > retrieving these archives that rightfully should be returned to
        > > Ukraine.
        > >
        > > Another major project on Mr. Misilo's agenda has been the study
        of
        > > Ukrainian martyrology on the territory of Poland during and
        > > immediately after World War II.
        > >
        > > Prominent within this genre are his three documentary works
        dealing
        > > with the expulsion of ethnic Ukrainians from the territory of
        Poland
        > > in the years 1944-1947, an example of "ethnic cleansing" before
        that
        > > term was in vogue.
        > >
        > > The first two volumes deal with the deportation of some 500,000
        > > Ukrainians to Soviet Ukraine in the years 1944-1946. The third
        > > documents the so-called "Akcja Wisla" of 1947," which refers to
        the
        > > forcible, often violent, removal of some 150,000 Ukrainians from
        > > their ancestral lands, which were incorporated into Poland, and
        there
        > > resettlement elsewhere in Poland.
        > >
        > > That volume was published in 1993 in Polish, but was subsequently
        > > translated into Ukrainian and published in Lviv by the NTSh.
        > >
        > > As soon as Mr. Misilo had published his book on "Akcja Wisla," he
        > > said he was dismissed from his job at the Polish Academy of Arts
        and
        > > Sciences.
        > >
        > > Decades of persistent efforts enable Mr. Misilo to access the
        > > original records of the Polish concentration camp at Jaworzno (a
        > > branch of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death camp, which Polish
        > > authorities utilized after World War II), where in the years 1947-
        > > 1949 some 4,000 Ukrainians were imprisoned.
        > >
        > > Mr. Misilo has compiled a reference volume with complete
        biographical
        > > data on each of the Jaworzno prisoners, including the dates of
        their
        > > arrest, conviction and sentencing.
        > >
        > > Furthermore, Mr. Misilo has been preparing a file on the
        Ukrainian
        > > Insurgent Army (WPA) soldiers who died on the territory of
        Poland,
        > > and has been assisting in the efforts to locate their burial
        sites.
        > >
        > > In 2003 Polish authorities are planning to make the anniversary
        of
        > > what they refer to as the "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged
        killings
        > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
        the
        > > Volyn region of Ukraine in 1943.
        > >
        > > The committee charged with the documentation and commemoration of
        > > these alleged crimes includes a number of high government
        officials
        > > and is chaired by Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski. It
        has
        > > already received $ 100,000 in funding.
        > >
        > > Mr. Misilo feels that Ukrainians must launch a counter-project
        that
        > > would demonstrate and document the fact that during and after
        WWII
        > > Ukrainians were no less victimized by the Poles.
        > >
        > > This would require a thorough search of the pertinent archives,
        as
        > > well as interviews with survivors, which in turn requires
        > > considerable funding. Mr. Misilo said his goal is not to
        exacerbate
        > > Ukrainian-Polish relations, but only to set the historical record
        > > straight
        > >
        >
      • concernedconnecticutresident
        Andy and All: Here is the link to the article that Carol posted with the remark about the slaughter in Volyn:
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 1, 2007
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Andy and All:

          Here is the link to the article that Carol posted with the remark
          about the slaughter in Volyn:

          http://www.ukrweekly.com/Archive/2003/040313.shtml

          I searched the net for it since I wanted to know where it came from
          also. It is from the Ukrainian Weekly January 26, 2003 issue.

          As others have stated, Carol was only bringing the article to our
          attention for the part about the discarded documents being
          discovered. She, like other members, including Lucyna and myself,
          spend a lot of time researching the net into the wee hours of the
          night looking for answers and more ways to discover our past. I, for
          one, admit that I am a bit obsessed and/or addicted. But there are
          worse addictions I think! Being a casino dealer, I see much worse
          addictions and obsessions every day! I'm not ashamed of my
          addiction! Keep posting, Carol!

          Barb Revoet
          Connecticut, USA

          --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Golebiowski"
          <andywbuffalo@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned message from an
          email address attributed
          > to "Carol Dove".
          >
          > "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
          > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
          the..."
          >
          > "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?
          >
          > Andy Golebiowski
          > Buffalo, NY
          > USA
          >
          > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > A treasure trove of Ukrainian historical archive was recently
          > > discovered in Poland by Yevhen Misilo, director of the Ukrainian
          > > Archive Center of Documentation and Studies in Warsaw. On
          December 7,
          > > 2002, Mr. Misilo related his sensational findings to a packed
          house
          > > at the Shevchenko Scientific Society (NTSh) in New York City.
          > >
          > > Among the material found in Warsaw were the archives of the NTSh,
          > > Prosvita and Ridna Shkola societies in Lviv, those of the Legion
          of
          > > Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, the Galician Army, the army of the
          Ukrainian
          > > National Republic, the Western Ukrainian National Republic, the
          > > Ukrainian Representation to the Polish Parliament, to name just
          the
          > > major ones, as well as the personal archives of a number of
          prominent
          > > Ukrainians, among them Dmytro Dontsov.
          > >
          > > All of these archives were removed from Lviv in 1944 by the
          > > retreating Nazis, who brought them to Silesia, now part of
          western
          > > Poland. From there most of the materials were transferred to the
          > > National Library in Warsaw.
          > >
          > > In 1992 Mr. Misilo found these treasures in Warsaw, discarded in
          a
          > > dumpster. It took seven years of his efforts to get the Polish
          > > authorities to acknowledge the existence of these archives and
          then
          > > to make them available for study.
          > >
          > > Since then, Mr. Misilo has been researching and cataloging this
          chunk
          > > of Ukrainian history with the part-time help of Halyna Svarnyk, a
          > > prominent archivist from Lviv.
          > >
          > > Equally bizarre has been the fate of the smaller portion of the
          Lviv
          > > archive, which remained in Silesia and is now stored in the
          > > Ossolineum building in Wroclaw. To this day, the Poles deny its
          > > possession and won't allow anyone to research it.
          > >
          > > Very disappointing, said Mr. Misilo, has been the attitude of
          > > Ukrainian government officials, who, despite his numerous
          appeals,
          > > have refused to get involved in trying to gain access to or
          > > retrieving these archives that rightfully should be returned to
          > > Ukraine.
          > >
          > > Another major project on Mr. Misilo's agenda has been the study
          of
          > > Ukrainian martyrology on the territory of Poland during and
          > > immediately after World War II.
          > >
          > > Prominent within this genre are his three documentary works
          dealing
          > > with the expulsion of ethnic Ukrainians from the territory of
          Poland
          > > in the years 1944-1947, an example of "ethnic cleansing" before
          that
          > > term was in vogue.
          > >
          > > The first two volumes deal with the deportation of some 500,000
          > > Ukrainians to Soviet Ukraine in the years 1944-1946. The third
          > > documents the so-called "Akcja Wisla" of 1947," which refers to
          the
          > > forcible, often violent, removal of some 150,000 Ukrainians from
          > > their ancestral lands, which were incorporated into Poland, and
          there
          > > resettlement elsewhere in Poland.
          > >
          > > That volume was published in 1993 in Polish, but was subsequently
          > > translated into Ukrainian and published in Lviv by the NTSh.
          > >
          > > As soon as Mr. Misilo had published his book on "Akcja Wisla," he
          > > said he was dismissed from his job at the Polish Academy of Arts
          and
          > > Sciences.
          > >
          > > Decades of persistent efforts enable Mr. Misilo to access the
          > > original records of the Polish concentration camp at Jaworzno (a
          > > branch of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death camp, which Polish
          > > authorities utilized after World War II), where in the years 1947-
          > > 1949 some 4,000 Ukrainians were imprisoned.
          > >
          > > Mr. Misilo has compiled a reference volume with complete
          biographical
          > > data on each of the Jaworzno prisoners, including the dates of
          their
          > > arrest, conviction and sentencing.
          > >
          > > Furthermore, Mr. Misilo has been preparing a file on the
          Ukrainian
          > > Insurgent Army (WPA) soldiers who died on the territory of
          Poland,
          > > and has been assisting in the efforts to locate their burial
          sites.
          > >
          > > In 2003 Polish authorities are planning to make the anniversary
          of
          > > what they refer to as the "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged
          killings
          > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
          the
          > > Volyn region of Ukraine in 1943.
          > >
          > > The committee charged with the documentation and commemoration of
          > > these alleged crimes includes a number of high government
          officials
          > > and is chaired by Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski. It
          has
          > > already received $ 100,000 in funding.
          > >
          > > Mr. Misilo feels that Ukrainians must launch a counter-project
          that
          > > would demonstrate and document the fact that during and after
          WWII
          > > Ukrainians were no less victimized by the Poles.
          > >
          > > This would require a thorough search of the pertinent archives,
          as
          > > well as interviews with survivors, which in turn requires
          > > considerable funding. Mr. Misilo said his goal is not to
          exacerbate
          > > Ukrainian-Polish relations, but only to set the historical record
          > > straight
          > >
          >
        • Krystyna Styrna-Buyukpinar
          I agree Carol, please do reseach and share. It is another point of view that we might want to be aware of during our quest for information on Kresy.
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 2, 2007
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            I agree Carol, please do reseach and share. It is another point of view that we might want to be aware of during our quest for information on Kresy.
            Pozdrawiam serdecznie
            Krystyna

            concernedconnecticutresident <beemail27@...> wrote:
            Andy and All:

            Here is the link to the article that Carol posted with the remark
            about the slaughter in Volyn:

            http://www.ukrweekly.com/Archive/2003/040313.shtml

            I searched the net for it since I wanted to know where it came from
            also. It is from the Ukrainian Weekly January 26, 2003 issue.

            As others have stated, Carol was only bringing the article to our
            attention for the part about the discarded documents being
            discovered. She, like other members, including Lucyna and myself,
            spend a lot of time researching the net into the wee hours of the
            night looking for answers and more ways to discover our past. I, for
            one, admit that I am a bit obsessed and/or addicted. But there are
            worse addictions I think! Being a casino dealer, I see much worse
            addictions and obsessions every day! I'm not ashamed of my
            addiction! Keep posting, Carol!

            Barb Revoet
            Connecticut, USA

            --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Golebiowski"
            <andywbuffalo@...> wrote:
            >
            > I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned message from an
            email address attributed
            > to "Carol Dove".
            >
            > "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
            > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
            the..."
            >
            > "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?
            >
            > Andy Golebiowski
            > Buffalo, NY
            > USA
            >
            > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > A treasure trove of Ukrainian historical archive was recently
            > > discovered in Poland by Yevhen Misilo, director of the Ukrainian
            > > Archive Center of Documentation and Studies in Warsaw. On
            December 7,
            > > 2002, Mr. Misilo related his sensational findings to a packed
            house
            > > at the Shevchenko Scientific Society (NTSh) in New York City.
            > >
            > > Among the material found in Warsaw were the archives of the NTSh,
            > > Prosvita and Ridna Shkola societies in Lviv, those of the Legion
            of
            > > Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, the Galician Army, the army of the
            Ukrainian
            > > National Republic, the Western Ukrainian National Republic, the
            > > Ukrainian Representation to the Polish Parliament, to name just
            the
            > > major ones, as well as the personal archives of a number of
            prominent
            > > Ukrainians, among them Dmytro Dontsov.
            > >
            > > All of these archives were removed from Lviv in 1944 by the
            > > retreating Nazis, who brought them to Silesia, now part of
            western
            > > Poland. From there most of the materials were transferred to the
            > > National Library in Warsaw.
            > >
            > > In 1992 Mr. Misilo found these treasures in Warsaw, discarded in
            a
            > > dumpster. It took seven years of his efforts to get the Polish
            > > authorities to acknowledge the existence of these archives and
            then
            > > to make them available for study.
            > >
            > > Since then, Mr. Misilo has been researching and cataloging this
            chunk
            > > of Ukrainian history with the part-time help of Halyna Svarnyk, a
            > > prominent archivist from Lviv.
            > >
            > > Equally bizarre has been the fate of the smaller portion of the
            Lviv
            > > archive, which remained in Silesia and is now stored in the
            > > Ossolineum building in Wroclaw. To this day, the Poles deny its
            > > possession and won't allow anyone to research it.
            > >
            > > Very disappointing, said Mr. Misilo, has been the attitude of
            > > Ukrainian government officials, who, despite his numerous
            appeals,
            > > have refused to get involved in trying to gain access to or
            > > retrieving these archives that rightfully should be returned to
            > > Ukraine.
            > >
            > > Another major project on Mr. Misilo's agenda has been the study
            of
            > > Ukrainian martyrology on the territory of Poland during and
            > > immediately after World War II.
            > >
            > > Prominent within this genre are his three documentary works
            dealing
            > > with the expulsion of ethnic Ukrainians from the territory of
            Poland
            > > in the years 1944-1947, an example of "ethnic cleansing" before
            that
            > > term was in vogue.
            > >
            > > The first two volumes deal with the deportation of some 500,000
            > > Ukrainians to Soviet Ukraine in the years 1944-1946. The third
            > > documents the so-called "Akcja Wisla" of 1947," which refers to
            the
            > > forcible, often violent, removal of some 150,000 Ukrainians from
            > > their ancestral lands, which were incorporated into Poland, and
            there
            > > resettlement elsewhere in Poland.
            > >
            > > That volume was published in 1993 in Polish, but was subsequently
            > > translated into Ukrainian and published in Lviv by the NTSh.
            > >
            > > As soon as Mr. Misilo had published his book on "Akcja Wisla," he
            > > said he was dismissed from his job at the Polish Academy of Arts
            and
            > > Sciences.
            > >
            > > Decades of persistent efforts enable Mr. Misilo to access the
            > > original records of the Polish concentration camp at Jaworzno (a
            > > branch of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death camp, which Polish
            > > authorities utilized after World War II), where in the years 1947-
            > > 1949 some 4,000 Ukrainians were imprisoned.
            > >
            > > Mr. Misilo has compiled a reference volume with complete
            biographical
            > > data on each of the Jaworzno prisoners, including the dates of
            their
            > > arrest, conviction and sentencing.
            > >
            > > Furthermore, Mr. Misilo has been preparing a file on the
            Ukrainian
            > > Insurgent Army (WPA) soldiers who died on the territory of
            Poland,
            > > and has been assisting in the efforts to locate their burial
            sites.
            > >
            > > In 2003 Polish authorities are planning to make the anniversary
            of
            > > what they refer to as the "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged
            killings
            > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
            the
            > > Volyn region of Ukraine in 1943.
            > >
            > > The committee charged with the documentation and commemoration of
            > > these alleged crimes includes a number of high government
            officials
            > > and is chaired by Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski. It
            has
            > > already received $ 100,000 in funding.
            > >
            > > Mr. Misilo feels that Ukrainians must launch a counter-project
            that
            > > would demonstrate and document the fact that during and after
            WWII
            > > Ukrainians were no less victimized by the Poles.
            > >
            > > This would require a thorough search of the pertinent archives,
            as
            > > well as interviews with survivors, which in turn requires
            > > considerable funding. Mr. Misilo said his goal is not to
            exacerbate
            > > Ukrainian-Polish relations, but only to set the historical record
            > > straight
            > >
            >






            ---------------------------------
            Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
            Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andy Golebiowski
            OK, Carol, now that Barb has come to your rescue :), I see that you were quoting an article. The article is very interesting to me, someone who used to be an
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 2, 2007
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              OK, Carol, now that Barb has come to your rescue :), I see that you were quoting an article.

              The article is very interesting to me, someone who used to be an avid garbage picker of
              discarded Polish items in my neighborhood.

              Citing the source of an article, however is of prime importance, I think, both as a courtesy
              to the author and publisher, but also to avoid the confusion that just arose.

              I do thank you for sharing it with us.

              Andy Golebiowski
              Buffalo, NY
              USA

              --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Andy,
              >
              > I am sorry if I disturbed you. I put the date to make sure no one
              > thought this was todays news. To me it was the importance of finding
              > documents and where they ended up. I know this group had a lot to say
              > on "alleged" killing and therefore "discarded in a dumpster" was
              > what I was pointing out. Hence the title, "Check the garbage". I
              > would like to know what else was there as this was a partial list.
              > With fires in Ukraine taking documents and documents not being
              > released I think finding of documents reguardless of the alligations
              > they had (that I felt we all were aware have been made) would be of
              > intrest. I am truly sorry if this disturbed you as that was never my
              > intent. Carol
              >
              > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Golebiowski"
              > <andywbuffalo@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned message from an
              > email address attributed
              > > to "Carol Dove".
              > >
              > > "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
              > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
              > the..."
              > >
              > > "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?
              > >
              > > Andy Golebiowski
              > > Buffalo, NY
              > > USA
              > >
              > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@>
              > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > A treasure trove of Ukrainian historical archive was recently
              > > > discovered in Poland by Yevhen Misilo, director of the Ukrainian
              > > > Archive Center of Documentation and Studies in Warsaw. On
              > December 7,
              > > > 2002, Mr. Misilo related his sensational findings to a packed
              > house
              > > > at the Shevchenko Scientific Society (NTSh) in New York City.
              > > >
              > > > Among the material found in Warsaw were the archives of the NTSh,
              > > > Prosvita and Ridna Shkola societies in Lviv, those of the Legion
              > of
              > > > Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, the Galician Army, the army of the
              > Ukrainian
              > > > National Republic, the Western Ukrainian National Republic, the
              > > > Ukrainian Representation to the Polish Parliament, to name just
              > the
              > > > major ones, as well as the personal archives of a number of
              > prominent
              > > > Ukrainians, among them Dmytro Dontsov.
              > > >
              > > > All of these archives were removed from Lviv in 1944 by the
              > > > retreating Nazis, who brought them to Silesia, now part of
              > western
              > > > Poland. From there most of the materials were transferred to the
              > > > National Library in Warsaw.
              > > >
              > > > In 1992 Mr. Misilo found these treasures in Warsaw, discarded in
              > a
              > > > dumpster. It took seven years of his efforts to get the Polish
              > > > authorities to acknowledge the existence of these archives and
              > then
              > > > to make them available for study.
              > > >
              > > > Since then, Mr. Misilo has been researching and cataloging this
              > chunk
              > > > of Ukrainian history with the part-time help of Halyna Svarnyk, a
              > > > prominent archivist from Lviv.
              > > >
              > > > Equally bizarre has been the fate of the smaller portion of the
              > Lviv
              > > > archive, which remained in Silesia and is now stored in the
              > > > Ossolineum building in Wroclaw. To this day, the Poles deny its
              > > > possession and won't allow anyone to research it.
              > > >
              > > > Very disappointing, said Mr. Misilo, has been the attitude of
              > > > Ukrainian government officials, who, despite his numerous
              > appeals,
              > > > have refused to get involved in trying to gain access to or
              > > > retrieving these archives that rightfully should be returned to
              > > > Ukraine.
              > > >
              > > > Another major project on Mr. Misilo's agenda has been the study
              > of
              > > > Ukrainian martyrology on the territory of Poland during and
              > > > immediately after World War II.
              > > >
              > > > Prominent within this genre are his three documentary works
              > dealing
              > > > with the expulsion of ethnic Ukrainians from the territory of
              > Poland
              > > > in the years 1944-1947, an example of "ethnic cleansing" before
              > that
              > > > term was in vogue.
              > > >
              > > > The first two volumes deal with the deportation of some 500,000
              > > > Ukrainians to Soviet Ukraine in the years 1944-1946. The third
              > > > documents the so-called "Akcja Wisla" of 1947," which refers to
              > the
              > > > forcible, often violent, removal of some 150,000 Ukrainians from
              > > > their ancestral lands, which were incorporated into Poland, and
              > there
              > > > resettlement elsewhere in Poland.
              > > >
              > > > That volume was published in 1993 in Polish, but was subsequently
              > > > translated into Ukrainian and published in Lviv by the NTSh.
              > > >
              > > > As soon as Mr. Misilo had published his book on "Akcja Wisla," he
              > > > said he was dismissed from his job at the Polish Academy of Arts
              > and
              > > > Sciences.
              > > >
              > > > Decades of persistent efforts enable Mr. Misilo to access the
              > > > original records of the Polish concentration camp at Jaworzno (a
              > > > branch of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death camp, which Polish
              > > > authorities utilized after World War II), where in the years 1947-
              > > > 1949 some 4,000 Ukrainians were imprisoned.
              > > >
              > > > Mr. Misilo has compiled a reference volume with complete
              > biographical
              > > > data on each of the Jaworzno prisoners, including the dates of
              > their
              > > > arrest, conviction and sentencing.
              > > >
              > > > Furthermore, Mr. Misilo has been preparing a file on the
              > Ukrainian
              > > > Insurgent Army (WPA) soldiers who died on the territory of
              > Poland,
              > > > and has been assisting in the efforts to locate their burial
              > sites.
              > > >
              > > > In 2003 Polish authorities are planning to make the anniversary
              > of
              > > > what they refer to as the "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged
              > killings
              > > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
              > the
              > > > Volyn region of Ukraine in 1943.
              > > >
              > > > The committee charged with the documentation and commemoration of
              > > > these alleged crimes includes a number of high government
              > officials
              > > > and is chaired by Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski. It
              > has
              > > > already received $ 100,000 in funding.
              > > >
              > > > Mr. Misilo feels that Ukrainians must launch a counter-project
              > that
              > > > would demonstrate and document the fact that during and after
              > WWII
              > > > Ukrainians were no less victimized by the Poles.
              > > >
              > > > This would require a thorough search of the pertinent archives,
              > as
              > > > well as interviews with survivors, which in turn requires
              > > > considerable funding. Mr. Misilo said his goal is not to
              > exacerbate
              > > > Ukrainian-Polish relations, but only to set the historical record
              > > > straight
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Walter Orlowski
              Hi Carol and Andy: Allow me to make a few comments about the news item and the substance of it. If this document proves anything it is that there is a segment
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 2, 2007
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Carol and Andy:

                Allow me to make a few comments about the news item and the substance
                of it. If this document proves anything it is that there is a segment
                of Ukrainian population that will continue to be in denial and will
                distort and lie and lie about the Ukrainian crimes and collaboration
                with the Nazis. Their hatred of Poland remains their primary
                motivating factor allowing them to ignore the mass murders of
                Ukrainians committed by the Soviets. If Musilo is a historian then so
                is everyone in this group. In paragraph #2 he uses all kinds of names
                for what essentially were UPA-OUN and SS formations. It may sound
                better but it does not change the facts of their murderous past and
                Nazi collaboration.

                The other point is the hiding of documents and even destruction of
                documents relating to Ukrainian crimes by Communist authorities. The
                Polish Communists, probably under Soviet direction, refused to
                investigate or discuss the Ukrainian crimes. The Soviets simply
                called them "bandits" and "Nazi collaborators" but never allowed
                investigation of their crimes. I personally doubt if Musilo will find
                anything in the documents to support his thesis of Ukrainian
                martyrdom, if these are indeed authentic.

                There are many crimes that the Communists covered up including
                the "post-WWII NKVD Reign of Terror" in which as many as 150,000
                Poles were murdered, and the Kielce pogrom and many other Soviet
                crimes. What was most disturbing to me is the lack of interest among
                the post-communists to investigate and expose those crimes. In case
                of the Ukrainian Crimes, the post-Communists lead by Kwasniewski have
                deliberately obstructed any investigation and instead have downsized
                those crimes and through IPN implied that these crimes were committed
                during fighting between Ukrainians and AK (a kind of collateral
                damage). That of course is a very big lie. What the communists and
                post-communists are doing is essentially covering up the fact that if
                there were mass murders of Ukrainian civilians they were committed
                after NKVD took over the territory. They were committed by the NKVD
                Special Forces and latter on also the "Polish" Internal Security
                troops, clones of NKVD Special Forces, which contained an unusually
                high number of Ukrainians and other minorities and commanded by
                Russian officers. The IPN, under Kwasniewski and Keres, ascribes
                most of these to AK unless other "documents" surface or NKVD releases
                more documents (they haven't released any and what good are
                fabricated documents anyway). This was one more betrayal of Poland
                and Polish people by former communists.

                As I recall, no commemoration of the Wolyn massacres ever took place
                although recently there were articles talking about it. Does anyone
                have any information about such a commemoration or a planned one?

                With best regards
                Wladek
                --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Andy,
                >
                > I am sorry if I disturbed you. I put the date to make sure no one
                > thought this was todays news. To me it was the importance of
                finding
                > documents and where they ended up. I know this group had a lot to
                say
                > on "alleged" killing and therefore "discarded in a dumpster" was
                > what I was pointing out. Hence the title, "Check the garbage". I
                > would like to know what else was there as this was a partial list.
                > With fires in Ukraine taking documents and documents not being
                > released I think finding of documents reguardless of the
                alligations
                > they had (that I felt we all were aware have been made) would be of
                > intrest. I am truly sorry if this disturbed you as that was never
                my
                > intent. Carol
                >
                > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Golebiowski"
                > <andywbuffalo@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned message from an
                > email address attributed
                > > to "Carol Dove".
                > >
                > > "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
                > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground in
                > the..."
                > >
                > > "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?
                > >
                > > Andy Golebiowski
                > > Buffalo, NY
                > > USA
                > >
                > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove" <stashaok@>
                > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > A treasure trove of Ukrainian historical archive was recently
                > > > discovered in Poland by Yevhen Misilo, director of the
                Ukrainian
                > > > Archive Center of Documentation and Studies in Warsaw. On
                > December 7,
                > > > 2002, Mr. Misilo related his sensational findings to a packed
                > house
                > > > at the Shevchenko Scientific Society (NTSh) in New York City.
                > > >
                > > > Among the material found in Warsaw were the archives of the
                NTSh,
                > > > Prosvita and Ridna Shkola societies in Lviv, those of the
                Legion
                > of
                > > > Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, the Galician Army, the army of the
                > Ukrainian
                > > > National Republic, the Western Ukrainian National Republic, the
                > > > Ukrainian Representation to the Polish Parliament, to name just
                > the
                > > > major ones, as well as the personal archives of a number of
                > prominent
                > > > Ukrainians, among them Dmytro Dontsov.
                > > >
                > > > All of these archives were removed from Lviv in 1944 by the
                > > > retreating Nazis, who brought them to Silesia, now part of
                > western
                > > > Poland. From there most of the materials were transferred to
                the
                > > > National Library in Warsaw.
                > > >
                > > > In 1992 Mr. Misilo found these treasures in Warsaw, discarded
                in
                > a
                > > > dumpster. It took seven years of his efforts to get the Polish
                > > > authorities to acknowledge the existence of these archives and
                > then
                > > > to make them available for study.
                > > >
                > > > Since then, Mr. Misilo has been researching and cataloging this
                > chunk
                > > > of Ukrainian history with the part-time help of Halyna Svarnyk,
                a
                > > > prominent archivist from Lviv.
                > > >
                > > > Equally bizarre has been the fate of the smaller portion of the
                > Lviv
                > > > archive, which remained in Silesia and is now stored in the
                > > > Ossolineum building in Wroclaw. To this day, the Poles deny its
                > > > possession and won't allow anyone to research it.
                > > >
                > > > Very disappointing, said Mr. Misilo, has been the attitude of
                > > > Ukrainian government officials, who, despite his numerous
                > appeals,
                > > > have refused to get involved in trying to gain access to or
                > > > retrieving these archives that rightfully should be returned to
                > > > Ukraine.
                > > >
                > > > Another major project on Mr. Misilo's agenda has been the study
                > of
                > > > Ukrainian martyrology on the territory of Poland during and
                > > > immediately after World War II.
                > > >
                > > > Prominent within this genre are his three documentary works
                > dealing
                > > > with the expulsion of ethnic Ukrainians from the territory of
                > Poland
                > > > in the years 1944-1947, an example of "ethnic cleansing" before
                > that
                > > > term was in vogue.
                > > >
                > > > The first two volumes deal with the deportation of some 500,000
                > > > Ukrainians to Soviet Ukraine in the years 1944-1946. The third
                > > > documents the so-called "Akcja Wisla" of 1947," which refers to
                > the
                > > > forcible, often violent, removal of some 150,000 Ukrainians
                from
                > > > their ancestral lands, which were incorporated into Poland, and
                > there
                > > > resettlement elsewhere in Poland.
                > > >
                > > > That volume was published in 1993 in Polish, but was
                subsequently
                > > > translated into Ukrainian and published in Lviv by the NTSh.
                > > >
                > > > As soon as Mr. Misilo had published his book on "Akcja Wisla,"
                he
                > > > said he was dismissed from his job at the Polish Academy of
                Arts
                > and
                > > > Sciences.
                > > >
                > > > Decades of persistent efforts enable Mr. Misilo to access the
                > > > original records of the Polish concentration camp at Jaworzno
                (a
                > > > branch of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death camp, which Polish
                > > > authorities utilized after World War II), where in the years
                1947-
                > > > 1949 some 4,000 Ukrainians were imprisoned.
                > > >
                > > > Mr. Misilo has compiled a reference volume with complete
                > biographical
                > > > data on each of the Jaworzno prisoners, including the dates of
                > their
                > > > arrest, conviction and sentencing.
                > > >
                > > > Furthermore, Mr. Misilo has been preparing a file on the
                > Ukrainian
                > > > Insurgent Army (WPA) soldiers who died on the territory of
                > Poland,
                > > > and has been assisting in the efforts to locate their burial
                > sites.
                > > >
                > > > In 2003 Polish authorities are planning to make the anniversary
                > of
                > > > what they refer to as the "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged
                > killings
                > > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the Ukrainian underground
                in
                > the
                > > > Volyn region of Ukraine in 1943.
                > > >
                > > > The committee charged with the documentation and commemoration
                of
                > > > these alleged crimes includes a number of high government
                > officials
                > > > and is chaired by Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski. It
                > has
                > > > already received $ 100,000 in funding.
                > > >
                > > > Mr. Misilo feels that Ukrainians must launch a counter-project
                > that
                > > > would demonstrate and document the fact that during and after
                > WWII
                > > > Ukrainians were no less victimized by the Poles.
                > > >
                > > > This would require a thorough search of the pertinent archives,
                > as
                > > > well as interviews with survivors, which in turn requires
                > > > considerable funding. Mr. Misilo said his goal is not to
                > exacerbate
                > > > Ukrainian-Polish relations, but only to set the historical
                record
                > > > straight
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Carol Dove
                Walter, I found this article but it seems all the ones with plans are no longer linked. I think many people feel if they don t talk about it, (as they have had
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 2, 2007
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Walter,

                  I found this article but it seems all the ones with
                  plans are no longer linked. I think many people feel
                  if they don't talk about it, (as they have had to do
                  in the past)then the hurt goes away. This simply is
                  not true. If it was they would not get upset now. It
                  is being able to openly deal with the truth that
                  allows healing to take place. Poems that Anna writes
                  are doing the same thing on a differant level.

                  It has been easy for everyone to put alot of issues to
                  rest. Now we have the right to open the books, ask the
                  questions and deal with the truth. It will not change
                  the past. My stance is in respect, we owe it to the
                  ones that cannot and the families they left behind.
                  Carol Celinska Dove



                  http://www.iwm.at/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=301&Itemid=276




                  --- Walter Orlowski <walter_orlowski@...> wrote:

                  > Hi Carol and Andy:
                  >
                  > Allow me to make a few comments about the news item
                  > and the substance
                  > of it. If this document proves anything it is that
                  > there is a segment
                  > of Ukrainian population that will continue to be in
                  > denial and will
                  > distort and lie and lie about the Ukrainian crimes
                  > and collaboration
                  > with the Nazis. Their hatred of Poland remains their
                  > primary
                  > motivating factor allowing them to ignore the mass
                  > murders of
                  > Ukrainians committed by the Soviets. If Musilo is a
                  > historian then so
                  > is everyone in this group. In paragraph #2 he uses
                  > all kinds of names
                  > for what essentially were UPA-OUN and SS formations.
                  > It may sound
                  > better but it does not change the facts of their
                  > murderous past and
                  > Nazi collaboration.
                  >
                  > The other point is the hiding of documents and even
                  > destruction of
                  > documents relating to Ukrainian crimes by Communist
                  > authorities. The
                  > Polish Communists, probably under Soviet direction,
                  > refused to
                  > investigate or discuss the Ukrainian crimes. The
                  > Soviets simply
                  > called them "bandits" and "Nazi collaborators" but
                  > never allowed
                  > investigation of their crimes. I personally doubt if
                  > Musilo will find
                  > anything in the documents to support his thesis of
                  > Ukrainian
                  > martyrdom, if these are indeed authentic.
                  >
                  > There are many crimes that the Communists covered up
                  > including
                  > the "post-WWII NKVD Reign of Terror" in which as
                  > many as 150,000
                  > Poles were murdered, and the Kielce pogrom and many
                  > other Soviet
                  > crimes. What was most disturbing to me is the lack
                  > of interest among
                  > the post-communists to investigate and expose those
                  > crimes. In case
                  > of the Ukrainian Crimes, the post-Communists lead by
                  > Kwasniewski have
                  > deliberately obstructed any investigation and
                  > instead have downsized
                  > those crimes and through IPN implied that these
                  > crimes were committed
                  > during fighting between Ukrainians and AK (a kind of
                  > collateral
                  > damage). That of course is a very big lie. What the
                  > communists and
                  > post-communists are doing is essentially covering up
                  > the fact that if
                  > there were mass murders of Ukrainian civilians they
                  > were committed
                  > after NKVD took over the territory. They were
                  > committed by the NKVD
                  > Special Forces and latter on also the "Polish"
                  > Internal Security
                  > troops, clones of NKVD Special Forces, which
                  > contained an unusually
                  > high number of Ukrainians and other minorities and
                  > commanded by
                  > Russian officers. The IPN, under Kwasniewski and
                  > Keres, ascribes
                  > most of these to AK unless other "documents" surface
                  > or NKVD releases
                  > more documents (they haven't released any and what
                  > good are
                  > fabricated documents anyway). This was one more
                  > betrayal of Poland
                  > and Polish people by former communists.
                  >
                  > As I recall, no commemoration of the Wolyn massacres
                  > ever took place
                  > although recently there were articles talking about
                  > it. Does anyone
                  > have any information about such a commemoration or a
                  > planned one?
                  >
                  > With best regards
                  > Wladek
                  > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Dove"
                  > <stashaok@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Andy,
                  > >
                  > > I am sorry if I disturbed you. I put the date to
                  > make sure no one
                  > > thought this was todays news. To me it was the
                  > importance of
                  > finding
                  > > documents and where they ended up. I know this
                  > group had a lot to
                  > say
                  > > on "alleged" killing and therefore "discarded in a
                  > dumpster" was
                  > > what I was pointing out. Hence the title, "Check
                  > the garbage". I
                  > > would like to know what else was there as this was
                  > a partial list.
                  > > With fires in Ukraine taking documents and
                  > documents not being
                  > > released I think finding of documents reguardless
                  > of the
                  > alligations
                  > > they had (that I felt we all were aware have been
                  > made) would be of
                  > > intrest. I am truly sorry if this disturbed you as
                  > that was never
                  > my
                  > > intent. Carol
                  > >
                  > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Andy
                  > Golebiowski"
                  > > <andywbuffalo@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I am disturbed at the following in this unsigned
                  > message from an
                  > > email address attributed
                  > > > to "Carol Dove".
                  > > >
                  > > > "... "Slaughter in Volyn" --the alleged killings
                  >
                  > > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the
                  > Ukrainian underground in
                  > > the..."
                  > > >
                  > > > "alleged" ? dear anonymous writer ?
                  > > >
                  > > > Andy Golebiowski
                  > > > Buffalo, NY
                  > > > USA
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Carol
                  > Dove" <stashaok@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > A treasure trove of Ukrainian historical
                  > archive was recently
                  > > > > discovered in Poland by Yevhen Misilo,
                  > director of the
                  > Ukrainian
                  > > > > Archive Center of Documentation and Studies in
                  > Warsaw. On
                  > > December 7,
                  > > > > 2002, Mr. Misilo related his sensational
                  > findings to a packed
                  > > house
                  > > > > at the Shevchenko Scientific Society (NTSh) in
                  > New York City.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Among the material found in Warsaw were the
                  > archives of the
                  > NTSh,
                  > > > > Prosvita and Ridna Shkola societies in Lviv,
                  > those of the
                  > Legion
                  > > of
                  > > > > Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, the Galician Army,
                  > the army of the
                  > > Ukrainian
                  > > > > National Republic, the Western Ukrainian
                  > National Republic, the
                  > > > > Ukrainian Representation to the Polish
                  > Parliament, to name just
                  > > the
                  > > > > major ones, as well as the personal archives
                  > of a number of
                  > > prominent
                  > > > > Ukrainians, among them Dmytro Dontsov.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > All of these archives were removed from Lviv
                  > in 1944 by the
                  > > > > retreating Nazis, who brought them to Silesia,
                  > now part of
                  > > western
                  > > > > Poland. From there most of the materials were
                  > transferred to
                  > the
                  > > > > National Library in Warsaw.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In 1992 Mr. Misilo found these treasures in
                  > Warsaw, discarded
                  > in
                  > > a
                  > > > > dumpster. It took seven years of his efforts
                  > to get the Polish
                  > > > > authorities to acknowledge the existence of
                  > these archives and
                  > > then
                  > > > > to make them available for study.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Since then, Mr. Misilo has been researching
                  > and cataloging this
                  > > chunk
                  > > > > of Ukrainian history with the part-time help
                  > of Halyna Svarnyk,
                  > a
                  > > > > prominent archivist from Lviv.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Equally bizarre has been the fate of the
                  > smaller portion of the
                  > > Lviv
                  > > > > archive, which remained in Silesia and is now
                  > stored in the
                  > > > > Ossolineum building in Wroclaw. To this day,
                  > the Poles deny its
                  > > > > possession and won't allow anyone to research
                  > it.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Very disappointing, said Mr. Misilo, has been
                  > the attitude of
                  > > > > Ukrainian government officials, who, despite
                  > his numerous
                  > > appeals,
                  > > > > have refused to get involved in trying to gain
                  > access to or
                  > > > > retrieving these archives that rightfully
                  > should be returned to
                  > > > > Ukraine.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Another major project on Mr. Misilo's agenda
                  > has been the study
                  > > of
                  > > > > Ukrainian martyrology on the territory of
                  > Poland during and
                  > > > > immediately after World War II.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Prominent within this genre are his three
                  > documentary works
                  > > dealing
                  > > > > with the expulsion of ethnic Ukrainians from
                  > the territory of
                  > > Poland
                  > > > > in the years 1944-1947, an example of "ethnic
                  > cleansing" before
                  > > that
                  > > > > term was in vogue.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The first two volumes deal with the
                  > deportation of some 500,000
                  > > > > Ukrainians to Soviet Ukraine in the years
                  > 1944-1946. The third
                  > > > > documents the so-called "Akcja Wisla" of
                  > 1947," which refers to
                  > > the
                  > > > > forcible, often violent, removal of some
                  > 150,000 Ukrainians
                  > from
                  > > > > their ancestral lands, which were incorporated
                  > into Poland, and
                  > > there
                  > > > > resettlement elsewhere in Poland.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > That volume was published in 1993 in Polish,
                  > but was
                  > subsequently
                  > > > > translated into Ukrainian and published in
                  > Lviv by the NTSh.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > As soon as Mr. Misilo had published his book
                  > on "Akcja Wisla,"
                  > he
                  > > > > said he was dismissed from his job at the
                  > Polish Academy of
                  > Arts
                  > > and
                  > > > > Sciences.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Decades of persistent efforts enable Mr.
                  > Misilo to access the
                  > > > > original records of the Polish concentration
                  > camp at Jaworzno
                  > (a
                  > > > > branch of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi death
                  > camp, which Polish
                  > > > > authorities utilized after World War II),
                  > where in the years
                  > 1947-
                  > > > > 1949 some 4,000 Ukrainians were imprisoned.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Mr. Misilo has compiled a reference volume
                  > with complete
                  > > biographical
                  > > > > data on each of the Jaworzno prisoners,
                  > including the dates of
                  > > their
                  > > > > arrest, conviction and sentencing.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Furthermore, Mr. Misilo has been preparing a
                  > file on the
                  > > Ukrainian
                  > > > > Insurgent Army (WPA) soldiers who died on the
                  > territory of
                  > > Poland,
                  > > > > and has been assisting in the efforts to
                  > locate their burial
                  > > sites.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In 2003 Polish authorities are planning to
                  > make the anniversary
                  > > of
                  > > > > what they refer to as the "Slaughter in Volyn"
                  > --the alleged
                  > > killings
                  > > > > of a large number of ethnic Poles by the
                  > Ukrainian underground
                  > in
                  > > the
                  > > > > Volyn region of Ukraine in 1943.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The committee charged with the documentation
                  > and commemoration
                  > of
                  > > > > these alleged crimes includes a number of high
                  > government
                  > > officials
                  > > > > and is chaired by Poland's President
                  > Aleksander Kwasniewski. It
                  > > has
                  > > > > already received $ 100,000 in funding.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Mr. Misilo feels that Ukrainians must launch a
                  > counter-project
                  > > that
                  > > > > would demonstrate and document the fact that
                  > during and after
                  > > WWII
                  > > > > Ukrainians were no less victimized by the
                  > Poles.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This would require a thorough search of the
                  > pertinent archives,
                  > > as
                  > > > > well as interviews with survivors, which in
                  > turn requires
                  > > > > considerable funding. Mr. Misilo said his goal
                  > is not to
                  > > exacerbate
                  > > > > Ukrainian-Polish relations, but only to set
                  > the historical
                  > record
                  > > > > straight
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >




                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Got a little couch potato?
                  Check out fun summer activities for kids.
                  http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
                • zenon.kuzik
                  Dear Wladek, What you said here is so true. Jewhen (Yevhen) Misilo should be ashamed of himself when talking about an ALLEGED massacre of Poles in Wolyn.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 5, 2007
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Wladek,

                    What you said here is so true. Jewhen (Yevhen) Misilo should be
                    ashamed of himself when talking about an ALLEGED massacre of Poles in
                    Wolyn. Some historian! It's hard enough overcoming past hatreds
                    between Poles and Ukrainians (who should be close brethren), but
                    "scholars" like him only exacerbate matters. We live in hope that his
                    type (this includes "ultra-nationalist" Poles as well) will be
                    consigned to the history books, sooner rather than later.

                    All good wishes,

                    Zenon Kuzik
                    Nowa Zelandia

                    -- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Walter Orlowski"
                    <walter_orlowski@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Carol and Andy:
                    >
                    > Allow me to make a few comments about the news item and the substance
                    > of it. If this document proves anything it is that there is a segment
                    > of Ukrainian population that will continue to be in denial and will
                    > distort and lie and lie about the Ukrainian crimes and collaboration
                    > with the Nazis. Their hatred of Poland remains their primary
                    > motivating factor allowing them to ignore the mass murders of
                    > Ukrainians committed by the Soviets. If Musilo is a historian then so
                    > is everyone in this group. In paragraph #2 he uses all kinds of names
                    > for what essentially were UPA-OUN and SS formations. It may sound
                    > better but it does not change the facts of their murderous past and
                    > Nazi collaboration.
                    >
                    > The other point is the hiding of documents and even destruction of
                    > documents relating to Ukrainian crimes by Communist authorities. The
                    > Polish Communists, probably under Soviet direction, refused to
                    > investigate or discuss the Ukrainian crimes. The Soviets simply
                    > called them "bandits" and "Nazi collaborators" but never allowed
                    > investigation of their crimes. I personally doubt if Musilo will find
                    > anything in the documents to support his thesis of Ukrainian
                    > martyrdom, if these are indeed authentic.
                    >
                    > There are many crimes that the Communists covered up including
                    > the "post-WWII NKVD Reign of Terror" in which as many as 150,000
                    > Poles were murdered, and the Kielce pogrom and many other Soviet
                    > crimes. What was most disturbing to me is the lack of interest among
                    > the post-communists to investigate and expose those crimes. In case
                    > of the Ukrainian Crimes, the post-Communists lead by Kwasniewski have
                    > deliberately obstructed any investigation and instead have downsized
                    > those crimes and through IPN implied that these crimes were committed
                    > during fighting between Ukrainians and AK (a kind of collateral
                    > damage). That of course is a very big lie. What the communists and
                    > post-communists are doing is essentially covering up the fact that if
                    > there were mass murders of Ukrainian civilians they were committed
                    > after NKVD took over the territory. They were committed by the NKVD
                    > Special Forces and latter on also the "Polish" Internal Security
                    > troops, clones of NKVD Special Forces, which contained an unusually
                    > high number of Ukrainians and other minorities and commanded by
                    > Russian officers. The IPN, under Kwasniewski and Keres, ascribes
                    > most of these to AK unless other "documents" surface or NKVD releases
                    > more documents (they haven't released any and what good are
                    > fabricated documents anyway). This was one more betrayal of Poland
                    > and Polish people by former communists.
                    >
                    > As I recall, no commemoration of the Wolyn massacres ever took place
                    > although recently there were articles talking about it. Does anyone
                    > have any information about such a commemoration or a planned one?
                    >
                    > With best regards
                    > Wladek
                  • WITOLD SZYMANSKI
                    Well stated, Zenon. Poles, Byelorussians and Ukrainians are brethren with Czechs, Slovaks and other Slavonic nations. We all have done some dreadful evil onto
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 5, 2007
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well stated, Zenon.

                      Poles, Byelorussians and Ukrainians are brethren with Czechs, Slovaks and other Slavonic nations. We all have done some dreadful evil onto one another over the ages, but, whereas we ought to remember the past, we must learn to forgive and work towards better brotherhood of neighbours, for it is a historic fact, that peace builds and war destroys.
                      History should be our teacher of life.
                      Help one another and live for reach other in harmony.

                      Regards, Witold.








                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: zenon.kuzik
                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:12 PM
                      Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"


                      Dear Wladek,

                      What you said here is so true. Jewhen (Yevhen) Misilo should be
                      ashamed of himself when talking about an ALLEGED massacre of Poles in
                      Wolyn. Some historian! It's hard enough overcoming past hatreds
                      between Poles and Ukrainians (who should be close brethren), but
                      "scholars" like him only exacerbate matters. We live in hope that his
                      type (this includes "ultra-nationalist" Poles as well) will be
                      consigned to the history books, sooner rather than later.

                      All good wishes,

                      Zenon Kuzik
                      Nowa Zelandia

                      -- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Walter Orlowski"
                      <walter_orlowski@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Carol and Andy:
                      >
                      > Allow me to make a few comments about the news item and the substance
                      > of it. If this document proves anything it is that there is a segment
                      > of Ukrainian population that will continue to be in denial and will
                      > distort and lie and lie about the Ukrainian crimes and collaboration
                      > with the Nazis. Their hatred of Poland remains their primary
                      > motivating factor allowing them to ignore the mass murders of
                      > Ukrainians committed by the Soviets. If Musilo is a historian then so
                      > is everyone in this group. In paragraph #2 he uses all kinds of names
                      > for what essentially were UPA-OUN and SS formations. It may sound
                      > better but it does not change the facts of their murderous past and
                      > Nazi collaboration.
                      >
                      > The other point is the hiding of documents and even destruction of
                      > documents relating to Ukrainian crimes by Communist authorities. The
                      > Polish Communists, probably under Soviet direction, refused to
                      > investigate or discuss the Ukrainian crimes. The Soviets simply
                      > called them "bandits" and "Nazi collaborators" but never allowed
                      > investigation of their crimes. I personally doubt if Musilo will find
                      > anything in the documents to support his thesis of Ukrainian
                      > martyrdom, if these are indeed authentic.
                      >
                      > There are many crimes that the Communists covered up including
                      > the "post-WWII NKVD Reign of Terror" in which as many as 150,000
                      > Poles were murdered, and the Kielce pogrom and many other Soviet
                      > crimes. What was most disturbing to me is the lack of interest among
                      > the post-communists to investigate and expose those crimes. In case
                      > of the Ukrainian Crimes, the post-Communists lead by Kwasniewski have
                      > deliberately obstructed any investigation and instead have downsized
                      > those crimes and through IPN implied that these crimes were committed
                      > during fighting between Ukrainians and AK (a kind of collateral
                      > damage). That of course is a very big lie. What the communists and
                      > post-communists are doing is essentially covering up the fact that if
                      > there were mass murders of Ukrainian civilians they were committed
                      > after NKVD took over the territory. They were committed by the NKVD
                      > Special Forces and latter on also the "Polish" Internal Security
                      > troops, clones of NKVD Special Forces, which contained an unusually
                      > high number of Ukrainians and other minorities and commanded by
                      > Russian officers. The IPN, under Kwasniewski and Keres, ascribes
                      > most of these to AK unless other "documents" surface or NKVD releases
                      > more documents (they haven't released any and what good are
                      > fabricated documents anyway). This was one more betrayal of Poland
                      > and Polish people by former communists.
                      >
                      > As I recall, no commemoration of the Wolyn massacres ever took place
                      > although recently there were articles talking about it. Does anyone
                      > have any information about such a commemoration or a planned one?
                      >
                      > With best regards
                      > Wladek






                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.1/1050 - Release Date: 10/4/2007 5:03 PM


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • zenon.kuzik
                      Dear Witold, When I see so-called Ukrainian experts gloss over, downplay, minimise, distort and justify the murderous actions of extremist Ukrainians against
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 5, 2007
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Witold,

                        When I see so-called Ukrainian "experts" gloss over, downplay,
                        minimise, distort and justify the murderous actions of extremist
                        Ukrainians against their Polish neighbours throughout the "Kresy"
                        lands (but especially in Wolyn), the Ukrainian blood in me causes me
                        to weep. Learn from the past: yes; falsify it, and peace, harmony,
                        friendship and reconciliation are doomed to fail. Acknowledgement is
                        an absolute prerequisite; all else follows.

                        When chauvinistic Poles justify the violent uprooting of the Lemko
                        highlanders from their ancestral lands (even though this "Akcja
                        Wisla", as it's called, was orchestrated by Moscow), the Polish blood
                        in me causes grief.

                        Pozdrowiam,

                        Zenon
                        (Former UK colony of) New Zealand

                        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "WITOLD SZYMANSKI"
                        <witold.szymanski@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well stated, Zenon.
                        >
                        > Poles, Byelorussians and Ukrainians are brethren with Czechs,
                        Slovaks and other Slavonic nations. We all have done some dreadful
                        evil onto one another over the ages, but, whereas we ought to remember
                        the past, we must learn to forgive and work towards better brotherhood
                        of neighbours, for it is a historic fact, that peace builds and war
                        destroys.
                        > History should be our teacher of life.
                        > Help one another and live for reach other in harmony.
                        >
                        > Regards, Witold.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: zenon.kuzik
                        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:12 PM
                        > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Wladek,
                        >
                        > What you said here is so true. Jewhen (Yevhen) Misilo should be
                        > ashamed of himself when talking about an ALLEGED massacre of Poles in
                        > Wolyn. Some historian! It's hard enough overcoming past hatreds
                        > between Poles and Ukrainians (who should be close brethren), but
                        > "scholars" like him only exacerbate matters. We live in hope that his
                        > type (this includes "ultra-nationalist" Poles as well) will be
                        > consigned to the history books, sooner rather than later.
                        >
                        > All good wishes,
                        >
                        > Zenon Kuzik
                        > Nowa Zelandia
                        >
                        > -- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Walter Orlowski"
                        > <walter_orlowski@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Carol and Andy:
                        > >
                        > > Allow me to make a few comments about the news item and the
                        substance
                        > > of it. If this document proves anything it is that there is a
                        segment
                        > > of Ukrainian population that will continue to be in denial and will
                        > > distort and lie and lie about the Ukrainian crimes and
                        collaboration
                        > > with the Nazis. Their hatred of Poland remains their primary
                        > > motivating factor allowing them to ignore the mass murders of
                        > > Ukrainians committed by the Soviets. If Musilo is a historian
                        then so
                        > > is everyone in this group. In paragraph #2 he uses all kinds of
                        names
                        > > for what essentially were UPA-OUN and SS formations. It may sound
                        > > better but it does not change the facts of their murderous past and
                        > > Nazi collaboration.
                        > >
                        > > The other point is the hiding of documents and even destruction of
                        > > documents relating to Ukrainian crimes by Communist authorities.
                        The
                        > > Polish Communists, probably under Soviet direction, refused to
                        > > investigate or discuss the Ukrainian crimes. The Soviets simply
                        > > called them "bandits" and "Nazi collaborators" but never allowed
                        > > investigation of their crimes. I personally doubt if Musilo will
                        find
                        > > anything in the documents to support his thesis of Ukrainian
                        > > martyrdom, if these are indeed authentic.
                        > >
                        > > There are many crimes that the Communists covered up including
                        > > the "post-WWII NKVD Reign of Terror" in which as many as 150,000
                        > > Poles were murdered, and the Kielce pogrom and many other Soviet
                        > > crimes. What was most disturbing to me is the lack of interest
                        among
                        > > the post-communists to investigate and expose those crimes. In case
                        > > of the Ukrainian Crimes, the post-Communists lead by Kwasniewski
                        have
                        > > deliberately obstructed any investigation and instead have
                        downsized
                        > > those crimes and through IPN implied that these crimes were
                        committed
                        > > during fighting between Ukrainians and AK (a kind of collateral
                        > > damage). That of course is a very big lie. What the communists and
                        > > post-communists are doing is essentially covering up the fact
                        that if
                        > > there were mass murders of Ukrainian civilians they were committed
                        > > after NKVD took over the territory. They were committed by the NKVD
                        > > Special Forces and latter on also the "Polish" Internal Security
                        > > troops, clones of NKVD Special Forces, which contained an unusually
                        > > high number of Ukrainians and other minorities and commanded by
                        > > Russian officers. The IPN, under Kwasniewski and Keres, ascribes
                        > > most of these to AK unless other "documents" surface or NKVD
                        releases
                        > > more documents (they haven't released any and what good are
                        > > fabricated documents anyway). This was one more betrayal of Poland
                        > > and Polish people by former communists.
                        > >
                        > > As I recall, no commemoration of the Wolyn massacres ever took
                        place
                        > > although recently there were articles talking about it. Does anyone
                        > > have any information about such a commemoration or a planned one?
                        > >
                        > > With best regards
                        > > Wladek
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.1/1050 - Release Date:
                        10/4/2007 5:03 PM
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Eve5J@aol.com
                        Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My father used to say, They are all Slavs, and he was right. Regards, Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 6, 2007
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My father used to say, "They
                          are all Slavs," and he was right.

                          Regards,
                          Eve Jesionka Jankowicz








                          ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • WITOLD SZYMANSKI
                          I am glad to learn, that you and your father agree on the issue of Slavs. History shows, that it was not the people of different Slavic countries, who went to
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 7, 2007
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I am glad to learn, that you and your father agree on the issue of Slavs.
                            History shows, that it was not the people of different Slavic countries, who went to war with one another, but the bad leaders, or adventure seeking kings, etc.

                            Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Eve5J@...
                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:48 AM
                            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"


                            Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My father used to say, "They
                            are all Slavs," and he was right.

                            Regards,
                            Eve Jesionka Jankowicz






                            ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                            No virus found in this incoming message.
                            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 - Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Carol Dove
                            Witold and Eve, Not that wikipedia are always right, this is how they define the Slavics. Have a great day! Carol Celinska Dove wikipedia says Slavic peoples
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 7, 2007
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Witold and Eve,

                              Not that wikipedia are always right, this is how they
                              define the Slavics.
                              Have a great day! Carol Celinska Dove


                              wikipedia says

                              Slavic peoples are traditionally divided along
                              linguistic lines into West Slavic (including Czechs,
                              Poles and Slovaks), East Slavic (including
                              Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South
                              Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats,
                              Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenians). For
                              a more comprehensive list, see Ethno-cultural
                              subdivisions.





                              --- WITOLD SZYMANSKI <witold.szymanski@...>
                              wrote:

                              > I am glad to learn, that you and your father agree
                              > on the issue of Slavs.
                              > History shows, that it was not the people of
                              > different Slavic countries, who went to war with one
                              > another, but the bad leaders, or adventure seeking
                              > kings, etc.
                              >
                              > Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Eve5J@...
                              > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:48 AM
                              > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the
                              > garbage"
                              >
                              >
                              > Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My
                              > father used to say, "They
                              > are all Slavs," and he was right.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ************************************** See what's
                              > new at http://www.aol.com
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 -
                              > Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >




                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                              http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
                            • WITOLD SZYMANSKI
                              Good day Carol, The point I am trying to make is, that there should be no wars (which destroy) in the whole world, but especially none between nearest and
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 7, 2007
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Good day Carol,

                                The point I am trying to make is, that there should be no wars (which destroy) in the whole world, but especially none between nearest and dearest, sort of speaking, brotherly nations, like Slavs.

                                Having expressed that, it reminds me, that Cain slew his brother Able. This proofs, that there is evil greed within us. And this is what we must try to overcome at all cost, so that the next generations will have never experience such atrocity, as war. That the new generations might just read about wars, as something that happened in the forgotten past. That is my heartfelt dream.

                                Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Carol Dove
                                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:31 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"


                                Witold and Eve,

                                Not that wikipedia are always right, this is how they
                                define the Slavics.
                                Have a great day! Carol Celinska Dove

                                wikipedia says

                                Slavic peoples are traditionally divided along
                                linguistic lines into West Slavic (including Czechs,
                                Poles and Slovaks), East Slavic (including
                                Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South
                                Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats,
                                Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenians). For
                                a more comprehensive list, see Ethno-cultural
                                subdivisions.

                                --- WITOLD SZYMANSKI <witold.szymanski@...>
                                wrote:

                                > I am glad to learn, that you and your father agree
                                > on the issue of Slavs.
                                > History shows, that it was not the people of
                                > different Slavic countries, who went to war with one
                                > another, but the bad leaders, or adventure seeking
                                > kings, etc.
                                >
                                > Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Eve5J@...
                                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:48 AM
                                > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the
                                > garbage"
                                >
                                >
                                > Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My
                                > father used to say, "They
                                > are all Slavs," and he was right.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                > Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ************************************** See what's
                                > new at http://www.aol.com
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                ----------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 -
                                > Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >

                                __________________________________________________________
                                Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                                http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting





                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 - Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Krystyna Styrna-Buyukpinar
                                Carol was this the source of your information? Pozdrawiam Krystyna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovaks http://www.ww2.pl/ Carol Dove
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 7, 2007
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Carol was this the source of your information?
                                  Pozdrawiam Krystyna
                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovaks

                                  http://www.ww2.pl/

                                  Carol Dove <stashaok@...> wrote:
                                  Witold and Eve,

                                  Not that wikipedia are always right, this is how they
                                  define the Slavics.
                                  Have a great day! Carol Celinska Dove

                                  wikipedia says

                                  Slavic peoples are traditionally divided along
                                  linguistic lines into West Slavic (including Czechs,
                                  Poles and Slovaks), East Slavic (including
                                  Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South
                                  Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats,
                                  Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenians). For
                                  a more comprehensive list, see Ethno-cultural
                                  subdivisions.

                                  --- WITOLD SZYMANSKI <witold.szymanski@...>
                                  wrote:

                                  > I am glad to learn, that you and your father agree
                                  > on the issue of Slavs.
                                  > History shows, that it was not the people of
                                  > different Slavic countries, who went to war with one
                                  > another, but the bad leaders, or adventure seeking
                                  > kings, etc.
                                  >
                                  > Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Eve5J@...
                                  > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:48 AM
                                  > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the
                                  > garbage"
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My
                                  > father used to say, "They
                                  > are all Slavs," and he was right.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ************************************** See what's
                                  > new at http://www.aol.com
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                  > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 -
                                  > Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > removed]
                                  >
                                  >

                                  __________________________________________________________
                                  Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                                  http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting





                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Krystyna Styrna-Buyukpinar
                                  Witold; I agree with you whole hearthly, first we need to erase all isms then perhaps our humanity will have a chance to survive and thrive. Pozdrawiam
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 7, 2007
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Witold;
                                    I agree with you whole hearthly, first we need to erase all "isms" then perhaps our humanity will have a chance to survive and thrive.
                                    Pozdrawiam serdecznie
                                    Krystyna

                                    WITOLD SZYMANSKI <witold.szymanski@...> wrote:
                                    Good day Carol,

                                    The point I am trying to make is, that there should be no wars (which destroy) in the whole world, but especially none between nearest and dearest, sort of speaking, brotherly nations, like Slavs.

                                    Having expressed that, it reminds me, that Cain slew his brother Able. This proofs, that there is evil greed within us. And this is what we must try to overcome at all cost, so that the next generations will have never experience such atrocity, as war. That the new generations might just read about wars, as something that happened in the forgotten past. That is my heartfelt dream.

                                    Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Carol Dove
                                    To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:31 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the garbage"

                                    Witold and Eve,

                                    Not that wikipedia are always right, this is how they
                                    define the Slavics.
                                    Have a great day! Carol Celinska Dove

                                    wikipedia says

                                    Slavic peoples are traditionally divided along
                                    linguistic lines into West Slavic (including Czechs,
                                    Poles and Slovaks), East Slavic (including
                                    Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South
                                    Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats,
                                    Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenians). For
                                    a more comprehensive list, see Ethno-cultural
                                    subdivisions.

                                    --- WITOLD SZYMANSKI <witold.szymanski@...>
                                    wrote:

                                    > I am glad to learn, that you and your father agree
                                    > on the issue of Slavs.
                                    > History shows, that it was not the people of
                                    > different Slavic countries, who went to war with one
                                    > another, but the bad leaders, or adventure seeking
                                    > kings, etc.
                                    >
                                    > Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Eve5J@...
                                    > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:48 AM
                                    > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check the
                                    > garbage"
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My
                                    > father used to say, "They
                                    > are all Slavs," and he was right.
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    > Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ************************************** See what's
                                    > new at http://www.aol.com
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 -
                                    > Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > removed]
                                    >
                                    >

                                    __________________________________________________________
                                    Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                                    http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

                                    ----------------------------------------------------------

                                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 - Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Carol Dove
                                    Witold and Group, This is also what I pray for. My heart is torn between two countries that I consider one. In fact I think of Ukraine as my families homeland
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 7, 2007
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Witold and Group,

                                      This is also what I pray for. My heart is torn between
                                      two countries that I consider one. In fact I think of
                                      Ukraine as my families homeland as I do Poland.

                                      I think the price paid and the way it all happened
                                      needs to be dealt with in an open manner. War Crimes
                                      of this magnitude cannot just be pushed under the rug.


                                      If you do not have consequences for a negative
                                      behavior then what will stop similar crimes. A strong
                                      war crime policy can do wonders. But only if the it's
                                      enforced.

                                      USA has used this on many guards that mistreated
                                      prisoners. They put the guards on T.V. and humiliated
                                      them for their behavior. If the USA ignored or covered
                                      this up it would still be going on. What stops others
                                      from doing the same is the fear of being held
                                      responsible. As you say, "that there is evil and greed
                                      within us" and what we need is accountability. We all
                                      must answer in the end.

                                      I think the worst thing any country can do is deny or
                                      devalue the crimes. This hurts the victim all over
                                      again and healing cannot take place.

                                      We also don't have the right to teach our children
                                      this behavior is alright and we are better people for
                                      forgiving. To many are not better people, ask the
                                      orphans if they feel their parents are better people.

                                      I am not saying start a war. I am saying what has
                                      happened never was concluded. If I was running Ukraine
                                      or Russia, I would stand up and admit this was
                                      something that never should have been. Our people are
                                      sorry that this happened. We are not dealing (for the
                                      most part, I should hope) with the actual criminals
                                      from 60 years ago. History knows the truth. Now out of
                                      simple respect this needs to happen.

                                      With that simple action out of the way all shall move
                                      forward to healing and stop going in a circle of "but
                                      you did this first". Each country can now gain by
                                      working together to solve this inner hurt and anger.
                                      Yes, I said it hurts and anger over the loss of our
                                      loved ones. It hurts even if it is from natural
                                      causes. Not just Poland but everyone has the same
                                      feelings. They differ in degree and why they had this
                                      loss, but all nations lost and all cry the same.

                                      Right now each and every one of the countries continue
                                      to be on the defensive. Regardless of the day of the
                                      week one if not two of them have a serious issues with
                                      another. Look at the news and what is being the main
                                      issues for serious problems. Not so much new issues
                                      but an unresolved past. Is it from the past being
                                      suppressed? This is not just one country it is all of
                                      them living in the past. Resolve is so simple yet
                                      stubborn pride leaves all apart.

                                      I do feel the ones responsible that are known and
                                      living should be tried in a court for war crimes. They
                                      may not live long enough to be sentenced but this is
                                      where accountability comes into play. Showing younger
                                      generations that this behavior by each and every
                                      country will not go unpunished.

                                      So thats it, My country with resolve and not having to
                                      read about a war that never had a conclusion. In the
                                      end we can each live with the past knowing our future
                                      is secure. Our children will read of the adults they
                                      look up to and they will have a higher standard to
                                      live by.

                                      "That is my heartfelt dream",
                                      Carol Celinska Dove/Residing President




                                      --- WITOLD SZYMANSKI <witold.szymanski@...>
                                      wrote:

                                      > Good day Carol,
                                      >
                                      > The point I am trying to make is, that there should
                                      > be no wars (which destroy) in the whole world, but
                                      > especially none between nearest and dearest, sort of
                                      > speaking, brotherly nations, like Slavs.
                                      >
                                      > Having expressed that, it reminds me, that Cain slew
                                      > his brother Able. This proofs, that there is evil
                                      > greed within us. And this is what we must try to
                                      > overcome at all cost, so that the next generations
                                      > will have never experience such atrocity, as war.
                                      > That the new generations might just read about wars,
                                      > as something that happened in the forgotten past.
                                      > That is my heartfelt dream.
                                      >
                                      > Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Carol Dove
                                      > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:31 AM
                                      > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check
                                      > the garbage"
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Witold and Eve,
                                      >
                                      > Not that wikipedia are always right, this is how
                                      > they
                                      > define the Slavics.
                                      > Have a great day! Carol Celinska Dove
                                      >
                                      > wikipedia says
                                      >
                                      > Slavic peoples are traditionally divided along
                                      > linguistic lines into West Slavic (including
                                      > Czechs,
                                      > Poles and Slovaks), East Slavic (including
                                      > Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South
                                      > Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats,
                                      > Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenians).
                                      > For
                                      > a more comprehensive list, see Ethno-cultural
                                      > subdivisions.
                                      >
                                      > --- WITOLD SZYMANSKI
                                      > <witold.szymanski@...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > I am glad to learn, that you and your father
                                      > agree
                                      > > on the issue of Slavs.
                                      > > History shows, that it was not the people of
                                      > > different Slavic countries, who went to war with
                                      > one
                                      > > another, but the bad leaders, or adventure
                                      > seeking
                                      > > kings, etc.
                                      > >
                                      > > Have a peaceful Sunday, Witold.
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: Eve5J@...
                                      > > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:48 AM
                                      > > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: 2003 News "Check
                                      > the
                                      > > garbage"
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yes, Witold, my father and I agree with you. My
                                      > > father used to say, "They
                                      > > are all Slavs," and he was right.
                                      > >
                                      > > Regards,
                                      > > Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ************************************** See
                                      > what's
                                      > > new at http://www.aol.com
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > > removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ----------------------------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054
                                      > -
                                      > > Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > > removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      __________________________________________________________
                                      > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo!
                                      > Small Business gives you all the tools to get
                                      > online.
                                      > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 -
                                      > Release Date: 10/6/2007 7:12 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >



                                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
                                      http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.