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RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

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  • Pauline Jarney
    Probably the people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it. What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 1, 2007
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      Probably the  people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it.  What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my door with guns in hand and told me to pack because we were being deported.    I have no guns in my home.  I have three children.  Would I resist them so they would not kill my children before my very eyes to prove a point?  I would pack and pray for the best.  I pray we never have to face what our parents did.
      It still happens.  I do not want to deviate but we all have seen examples in the post WWII era.  Boleslaw was a brave man.  He followed his heart and could not leave his family.  That was a sign of unconditional love.   Someone should film a movie about him. 

      Best Regards,
      Paulina


      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      From: styrna@...
      Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:13:31 -0700
      Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers


      The Bielski brothers, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel .   This book is about three Jewish brothers who escaped into the forests of Belarus in eastern Poland, and resisted German brutal treatment and managed to save some 1200 jews.

       

      That brings up an interesting question. It seems to me that almost 2 million Polish citizens were forcibly deported to Siberia.  In the middle of the night our ancestors were rounded up and crammed into cattle trains, etc ..  It seems from all the accounts I've read or listed to, that our ancestors "sheepishly"  were "herded" into those trains. Just like we see in films how Jews were rounded up and herded into Ghettos, and into .

       

      My question is ..  " did any Polish person or people, resist these deportation by the Russians ? "  Was there any one who fought with the Russians prior to being loaded into the trains?  They all knew they were being deported to Siberia !!  So why did we not do anything about it ?

       

      I know that in my family's case, my mom's brother escaped via a back door as the Russians broke into the house in the middle of the night.   He fled into the dense woods and hid overnight.  But alas, when the sunlight came, he saw a large number of the village people were herded together and they were all forced to march in the snow towards the train station several kilometers away.   So when Boleslaw saw his entire family departing, he could not bring himself to abandon them, to be left all alone I suppose.   It was a very hard emotional decision for him.

       

      So he unwillingly came out of the woods and sheepishly joined the herd.

       

      I wonder if there was any resistance ?  If there were any fights, shootings, etc.  or did we just give in....

       

       

      Regards

       

      Zbigniew

       

       

       


      From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jan Niechwiadowicz
      Sent: August 1, 2007 2:53 AM
      To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

       

      Dear Group,

      As you may be aware the story of the Bielski brothers is to be
      made into a movie. There are concerns amongst some of us that this
      will not give a fair impression of the role of Poles during the Second
      World War.

      I am currently reading Peter Duffy book, which I believe the film is
      to be based on. Am about ? of the way into the book and so far I have
      to say it appears fair. Has any other member read the book? I would
      like to know your views on it.

      Regards

      Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff




      See what you're getting into.before you go there. Check it out!
    • martin stepek
      My father and aunt told me that no-one in their Osada expected to be deported. After the Russians occupied the area the locals were forced to help in clearing
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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        My father and aunt told me that no-one in their Osada expected to be
        deported. After the Russians occupied the area the locals were forced to
        help in clearing forests etc for the Soviet economy. There was of course
        local resistance in the area as in so many other occupied countries. On the
        9th February in the afternoon every family was told to pack a cart with some
        stuff for a couple of days use. Everyone assumed they were going to go
        logging again in the forests. When they were woken by armed militia at 2am
        the next morning they were too shocked and tired to even think of resisting.
        It seems to have been very well timed and co-ordinated by the NKVD to
        minimise the opportunity for a planned response by the locals.
        Remember that many of those deported, especially in the first wave, were
        ex-military and as settlers in a disputed area would almost certainly have
        weapons. My grandfather taught youngsters as army cadets in the area, and as
        farmers, most would at least have had shotguns. My aunt Danka told me just
        the other day that my dad (17 at the time, with his father already in hiding
        after death threats) had to bury rifles and other weapons in the family farm
        in case they were discovered. The hope was that they could later be used to
        help liberate the country.
        So all in all, I think resistance in Poland was huge and well-chronicled,
        but the deportations were just too sudden, unexpected, and well-planned by
        the Soviets to allow the victims any chance to co-ordinate any pre-emptive
        response.

        Martin Stepek
        Scotland

        _________________________________________________________________
        Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -
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      • Eve5J@aol.com
        All settlers had a gun or two or more. Disarming the population occurred way in advance of the deportations. At the time of deportation on 10 February 1940,
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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          All settlers had a gun or two or more.  Disarming the population occurred way in advance of the deportations.  At the time of deportation on 10 February 1940, all men and older, bigger boys would be told to lie down, facing the floor with hands clasped behind the head.  The males were under constant armed guard of at least two.  The packer(s) had a guard of one usually.
           
          Regards,
          Eve Jankowicz
           
           
           
           
           




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        • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
          Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others, Thank you very much for your replies/input. Seems all the recollections are just like all my
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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            Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others,

             

            Thank you very much for your replies/input.

             

            Seems all the recollections are just like all my relative’s versions also.

             

             

            Right after Occupation by the Russians in Feb 17, 1939, they Collect/confiscated all the guns prior to deportations.  Then removed all Polish people from power job positions (a lot were arrested, etc) Then , on Feb 10, 1940, in the Middle of the night surprise attack, armed Russians and Ukrainians forcibly herded Polish civilians into cattle trains. To keep the ‘herd” from revolting/fighting back, they were not told by their captors that they were being deported to Siberia .

             

            I was interested in what resistance the Polish people put up in this situation.  Resistance against the Russians.  Not resistance against the Germans/Nazis, as was the case with the Bielski brothers.

             

            As you all know, the Bielski brothers story is about three Jewish fellows, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel  that resisted the Germans in 1941 in north eastern Poland (Kresy)  an area now known as Belarus . Their story started way after the time that all the Polish people were deported to Siberia .

             

            Around 2 Million Polish civilians were deported to Siberia from Kresy (eastern Poland ) prior to Germany attacking Eastern Poland/Russia.  

             

            So the question is, if the Bielski brothers and their 1200 people they saved from the Germans/Nazis,  why were they not deported to Siberia by the Russians in Feb 10, 1939 ( or the subsequent two other major deportations prior to the Germans invading/attacking Russia ) like the rest of the Polish people ?

             

            I already know about the brave heroics of the Jewish people during Nazi Occupation from western movies about “ Poland ” called  “The Pianist”,  “Schindler’s List”,  “Warszawa Uprising”, etc..   but where are similar movies of heroism by Polish persons during Russian occupation?

             

            Regards

             

             

            Zbigniew

             


            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Pauline Jarney
            Sent: August 1, 2007 7:28 PM
            To: kresy-siberia@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

             

            Probably the  people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it.  What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my door with guns in hand and told me to pack because we were being deported.    I have no guns in my home.  I have three children.  Would I resist them so they would not kill my children before my very eyes to prove a point?  I would pack and pray for the best.  I pray we never have to face what our parents did.
            It still happens.  I do not want to deviate but we all have seen examples in the post WWII era.  Boleslaw was a brave man.  He followed his heart and could not leave his family.  That was a sign of unconditional love.   Someone should film a movie about him. 

            Best Regards,
            Paulina


            To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
            From: styrna@shaw. ca
            Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:13:31 -0700
            Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

             

            The Bielski brothers, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel .   This book is about three Jewish brothers who escaped into the forests of Belarus in eastern Poland , and resisted German brutal treatment and managed to save some 1200 jews.

             

            That brings up an interesting question. It seems to me that almost 2 million Polish citizens were forcibly deported to Siberia .  In the middle of the night our ancestors were rounded up and crammed into cattle trains, etc ..  It seems from all the accounts I've read or listed to, that our ancestors "sheepishly"  were "herded" into those trains. Just like we see in films how Jews were rounded up and herded into Ghettos, and into .

             

            My question is ..  " did any Polish person or people, resist these deportation by the Russians ? "  Was there any one who fought with the Russians prior to being loaded into the trains?  They all knew they were being deported to Siberia !!  So why did we not do anything about it ?

             

            I know that in my family's case, my mom's brother escaped via a back door as the Russians broke into the house in the middle of the night.   He fled into the dense woods and hid overnight.  But alas, when the sunlight came, he saw a large number of the village people were herded together and they were all forced to march in the snow towards the train station several kilometers away.   So when Boleslaw saw his entire family departing, he could not bring himself to abandon them, to be left all alone I suppose.   It was a very hard emotional decision for him.

             

            So he unwillingly came out of the woods and sheepishly joined the herd.

             

            I wonder if there was any resistance ?  If there were any fights, shootings, etc.  or did we just give in....

             

             

            Regards

             

            Zbigniew

             

             

             


            From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy- Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jan Niechwiadowicz
            Sent: August 1, 2007 2:53 AM
            To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

             

            Dear Group,

            As you may be aware the story of the Bielski brothers is to be
            made into a movie. There are concerns amongst some of us that this
            will not give a fair impression of the role of Poles during the Second
            World War.

            I am currently reading Peter Duffy book, which I believe the film is
            to be based on. Am about ? of the way into the book and so far I have
            to say it appears fair. Has any other member read the book? I would
            like to know your views on it.

            Regards

            Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff

             

             

          • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
            Tadeusz, You are correct. The history books show that Germany attacked Poland on Sept 1, 1939 and so it is the default standard of the start of WWII as the
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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              Tadeusz,

               

              You are correct.  The history books show that Germany attacked Poland on Sept 1, 1939 and so it is the default standard of the start of WWII as the western world sees it.

               

              Even though Russia/Stalin signed a secret treaty with Germany prior to September, 1939 to invade Poland and divvy up the loot, Russia did not invade Poland until Sept 17, 1939. A great political and military deception don’t you think?  Let Germany attack from the west, and then two weeks later, announce to Poland that you are entering with a giant army from the East to help Poland, to protect Poland from the mean, bad old invaders from the west, ha, ha …   So Polish armies in the east, basically let Russian soldiers in freely, not knowing what was in store for them later on…..

               

              Regards

               

              Zbigniew

               

               


              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ted sebestianski
              Sent: August 2, 2007 10:44 AM
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

               

              Hi Zbigniew...

              I tought war started Sep.1-39

              Tadeusz

               

               

              Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others,

              Thank you very much for your replies/input.

              Seems all the recollections are just like all my relative’s versions also.

              Right after Occupation by the Russians in Feb 17, 1939, they Collect/confiscated all the guns prior to deportations.  Then removed all Polish people from power job positions (a lot were arrested, etc) Then , on Feb 10, 1940, in the Middle of the night surprise attack, armed Russians and Ukrainians forcibly herded Polish civilians into cattle trains. To keep the ‘herd” from revolting/fighting back, they were not told by their captors that they were being deported to Siberia .

              I was interested in what resistance the Polish people put up in this situation.  Resistance against the Russians.  Not resistance against the Germans/Nazis, as was the case with the Bielski brothers.

              As you all know, the Bielski brothers story is about three Jewish fellows, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel  that resisted the Germans in 1941 in north eastern Poland (Kresy)  an area now known as Belarus . Their story started way after the time that all the Polish people were deported to Siberia .

              Around 2 Million Polish civilians were deported to Siberia from Kresy (eastern Poland ) prior to Germany attacking Eastern Poland/Russia.  

              So the question is, if the Bielski brothers and their 1200 people they saved from the Germans/Nazis,  why were they not deported to Siberia by the Russians in Feb 10, 1939 ( or the subsequent two other major deportations prior to the Germans invading/attacking Russia ) like the rest of the Polish people ?

              I already know about the brave heroics of the Jewish people during Nazi Occupation from western movies about “ Poland ” called  “The Pianist”,  “Schindler’s List”,  “Warszawa Uprising”, etc..   but where are similar movies of heroism by Polish persons during Russian occupation?

              Regards

              Zbigniew


              From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Pauline Jarney
              Sent: August 1, 2007 7:28 PM
              To: kresy-siberia@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

              Probably the  people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it.  What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my door with guns in hand and told me to pack because we were being deported.    I have no guns in my home.  I have three children.  Would I resist them so they would not kill my children before my very eyes to prove a point?  I would pack and pray for the best.  I pray we never have to face what our parents did.
              It still happens.  I do not want to deviate but we all have seen examples in the post WWII era.  Boleslaw was a brave man.  He followed his heart and could not leave his family.  That was a sign of unconditional love.   Someone should film a movie about him. 

              Best Regards,
              Paulina


              To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
              From: styrna@shaw. ca
              Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:13:31 -0700
              Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

              The Bielski brothers, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel .   This book is about three Jewish brothers who escaped into the forests of Belarus in eastern Poland , and resisted German brutal treatment and managed to save some 1200 jews.

              That brings up an interesting question. It seems to me that almost 2 million Polish citizens were forcibly deported to Siberia .  In the middle of the night our ancestors were rounded up and crammed into cattle trains, etc ..  It seems from all the accounts I've read or listed to, that our ancestors "sheepishly"  were "herded" into those trains. Just like we see in films how Jews were rounded up and herded into Ghettos, and into .

              My question is ..  " did any Polish person or people, resist these deportation by the Russians ? "  Was there any one who fought with the Russians prior to being loaded into the trains?  They all knew they were being deported to Siberia !!  So why did we not do anything about it ?

              I know that in my family's case, my mom's brother escaped via a back door as the Russians broke into the house in the middle of the night.   He fled into the dense woods and hid overnight.  But alas, when the sunlight came, he saw a large number of the village people were herded together and they were all forced to march in the snow towards the train station several kilometers away.   So when Boleslaw saw his entire family departing, he could not bring himself to abandon them, to be left all alone I suppose.   It was a very hard emotional decision for him.

              So he unwillingly came out of the woods and sheepishly joined the herd.

              I wonder if there was any resistance ?  If there were any fights, shootings, etc.  or did we just give in....

              Regards

              Zbigniew

              size=2 width="100%" align=center>

              From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy- Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jan Niechwiadowicz
              Sent: August 1, 2007 2:53 AM
              To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

              Dear Group,

              As you may be aware the story of the Bielski brothers is to be
              made into a movie. There are concerns amongst some of us that this
              will not give a fair impression of the role of Poles during the Second
              World War.

              I am currently reading Peter Duffy book, which I believe the film is
              to be based on. Am about ? of the way into the book and so far I have
              to say it appears fair. Has any other member read the book? I would
              like to know your views on it.

              Regards

              Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff

            • dalriach@aol.com
              I think there was a programme on British TV a few months ago about the Bielski partisan groups, but many people may have missed it , as it was part of a
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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                I think there was a programme on British TV a few months ago about the Bielski partisan groups, but many people may have missed it , as it was part of a series of programmes about survival in extreme physical conditions, rather than an historical programme. It was made in Byelorus by a British team and they met some of the surviving partisans, now old men,  who showed them the forests and marshland areas where they hid. Some of the underground houses with earth roofs are still there, underground partly as protection from the cold, partly because they were almost invisible . The survivors demonstrated some of the techniques for survival, how to light fires without matches, how to make fires without smoke, making shoes out of birch bark, finding edible plants and roots and so on. They were an incredibly tough and resourceful group, but they also talked about the charismatic leadership. The Germans simply couldnt reach them in the marshes because it was inaccessible by any kind of vehicle or tank
                 
                Margaret Sierakowski
              • ted sebestianski
                Hi Zbigniew... I tought war started Sep.1-39 Tadeusz Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others, Thank you very much for your replies/input.
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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                  Hi Zbigniew...
                  I tought war started Sep.1-39
                  Tadeusz
                   

                  Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others,

                  Thank you very much for your replies/input.

                  Seems all the recollections are just like all my relative’s versions also.

                  Right after Occupation by the Russians in Feb 17, 1939, they Collect/confiscated all the guns prior to deportations.  Then removed all Polish people from power job positions (a lot were arrested, etc) Then , on Feb 10, 1940, in the Middle of the night surprise attack, armed Russians and Ukrainians forcibly herded Polish civilians into cattle trains. To keep the ‘herd” from revolting/fighting back, they were not told by their captors that they were being deported to Siberia .

                  I was interested in what resistance the Polish people put up in this situation.  Resistance against the Russians.  Not resistance against the Germans/Nazis, as was the case with the Bielski brothers.

                  As you all know, the Bielski brothers story is about three Jewish fellows, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel  that resisted the Germans in 1941 in north eastern Poland (Kresy)  an area now known as Belarus . Their story started way after the time that all the Polish people were deported to Siberia .

                  Around 2 Million Polish civilians were deported to Siberia from Kresy (eastern Poland ) prior to Germany attacking Eastern Poland/Russia.  

                  So the question is, if the Bielski brothers and their 1200 people they saved from the Germans/Nazis,  why were they not deported to Siberia by the Russians in Feb 10, 1939 ( or the subsequent two other major deportations prior to the Germans invading/attacking Russia ) like the rest of the Polish people ?

                  I already know about the brave heroics of the Jewish people during Nazi Occupation from western movies about “ Poland ” called  “The Pianist”,  “Schindler’s List”,  “Warszawa Uprising”, etc..   but where are similar movies of heroism by Polish persons during Russian occupation?

                  Regards

                  Zbigniew


                  From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Pauline Jarney
                  Sent: August 1, 2007 7:28 PM
                  To: kresy-siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                  Probably the  people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it.  What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my door with guns in hand and told me to pack because we were being deported.    I have no guns in my home.  I have three children.  Would I resist them so they would not kill my children before my very eyes to prove a point?  I would pack and pray for the best.  I pray we never have to face what our parents did.
                  It still happens.  I do not want to deviate but we all have seen examples in the post WWII era.  Boleslaw was a brave man.  He followed his heart and could not leave his family.  That was a sign of unconditional love.   Someone should film a movie about him. 

                  Best Regards,
                  Paulina


                  To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                  From: styrna@shaw. ca
                  Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:13:31 -0700
                  Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                  The Bielski brothers, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel .   This book is about three Jewish brothers who escaped into the forests of Belarus in eastern Poland , and resisted German brutal treatment and managed to save some 1200 jews.

                  That brings up an interesting question. It seems to me that almost 2 million Polish citizens were forcibly deported to Siberia .  In the middle of the night our ancestors were rounded up and crammed into cattle trains, etc ..  It seems from all the accounts I've read or listed to, that our ancestors "sheepishly"  were "herded" into those trains. Just like we see in films how Jews were rounded up and herded into Ghettos, and into .

                  My question is ..  " did any Polish person or people, resist these deportation by the Russians ? "  Was there any one who fought with the Russians prior to being loaded into the trains?  They all knew they were being deported to Siberia !!  So why did we not do anything about it ?

                  I know that in my family's case, my mom's brother escaped via a back door as the Russians broke into the house in the middle of the night.   He fled into the dense woods and hid overnight.  But alas, when the sunlight came, he saw a large number of the village people were herded together and they were all forced to march in the snow towards the train station several kilometers away.   So when Boleslaw saw his entire family departing, he could not bring himself to abandon them, to be left all alone I suppose.   It was a very hard emotional decision for him.

                  So he unwillingly came out of the woods and sheepishly joined the herd.

                  I wonder if there was any resistance ?  If there were any fights, shootings, etc.  or did we just give in....

                  Regards

                  Zbigniew


                  From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy- Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jan Niechwiadowicz
                  Sent: August 1, 2007 2:53 AM
                  To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                  Dear Group,

                  As you may be aware the story of the Bielski brothers is to be
                  made into a movie. There are concerns amongst some of us that this
                  will not give a fair impression of the role of Poles during the Second
                  World War.

                  I am currently reading Peter Duffy book, which I believe the film is
                  to be based on. Am about ? of the way into the book and so far I have
                  to say it appears fair. Has any other member read the book? I would
                  like to know your views on it.

                  Regards

                  Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff

                • dalriach@aol.com
                  Interesting website giving a rather different view of the Bielski partisans from the Peter Duffy book _http://www.naszawitryna.pl/jedwabne_en_127.html_
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 2, 2007
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                    Interesting website giving a rather different view of the Bielski partisans from the Peter Duffy book
                     
                     
                    Margaret Sierakowski
                  • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                    Margaret, Thank you very much for this link. I read it twice. Just as I thought I knew a lot about our Kresy I read this It has opened my eyes tremendously
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 3, 2007
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                      Margaret,

                       

                      Thank you very much for this link.  I read it twice.  Just as I thought I knew a lot about our Kresy I read this It has opened my eyes tremendously to the complexity of the issues at that time.

                       

                      Regards

                       

                      Zbigniew

                       


                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of dalriach@...
                      Sent: August 2, 2007 11:27 AM
                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                       

                      Interesting website giving a rather different view of the Bielski partisans from the Peter Duffy book

                       

                       

                      Margaret Sierakowski

                    • roman skulski
                      Zbyszek, First of all you have wrong dates of deportations. Feb 17, 1939 that is some seven months before the war even started. Feb 10, 1939 is also
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 4, 2007
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                        Zbyszek,
                         
                        First of all you have wrong dates of deportations.
                         
                        " Feb 17, 1939" that is some seven months before the war even started.
                         
                        "Feb 10, 1939" is also before the war.
                         
                         Majority of Ukrainians did not co-operate with the Russians, and many of them were deported to Siberia. .
                         
                        Un-armed civilians were not able to put up any resistance to armed NKVD personnel.
                         
                        On October 7, 1939 Polish Government ordered  Polish Army to go underground or try to make their way to France.
                         
                        Some Polish Army units crossed Carpathian mountains to Roumania where some of them were interned, but approximately 85,000 of them made their way to Palestine and France to continue the fight against  Germany.
                         
                        Russian deportations to Siberia were not based on individuals nationality but on individuals position before the war.Families of members of : police units, professional army personnel, government officials,etc. were first to be deported.
                         
                        Next were well to do farmers(kulaks). Their property was confiscated and and taken over by the state, to be used to create future "kolchoz"( collective farm").
                         
                        To my knowledge there no fights,shootings. etc. people just gave in......
                         
                        Cheers,
                         
                        Roman S.
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         


                        Zbigniew Bob Styrna <styrna@...> wrote:
                        Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others,
                        Thank you very much for your replies/input.
                        Seems all the recollections are just like all my relative’s versions also.
                        Right after Occupation by the Russians in Feb 17, 1939, they Collect/confiscated all the guns prior to deportations.  Then removed all Polish people from power job positions (a lot were arrested, etc) Then , on Feb 10, 1940, in the Middle of the night surprise attack, armed Russians and Ukrainians forcibly herded Polish civilians into cattle trains. To keep the ‘herd” from revolting/fighting back, they were not told by their captors that they were being deported to Siberia .
                        I was interested in what resistance the Polish people put up in this situation.  Resistance against the Russians.  Not resistance against the Germans/Nazis, as was the case with the Bielski brothers.
                        As you all know, the Bielski brothers story is about three Jewish fellows, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel  that resisted the Germans in 1941 in north eastern Poland (Kresy)  an area now known as Belarus . Their story started way after the time that all the Polish people were deported to Siberia .
                        Around 2 Million Polish civilians were deported to Siberia from Kresy (eastern Poland ) prior to Germany attacking Eastern Poland/Russia.  
                        So the question is, if the Bielski brothers and their 1200 people they saved from the Germans/Nazis,  why were they not deported to Siberia by the Russians in Feb 10, 1939 ( or the subsequent two other major deportations prior to the Germans invading/attacking Russia ) like the rest of the Polish people ?
                        I already know about the brave heroics of the Jewish people during Nazi Occupation from western movies about “ Poland ” called  “The Pianist”,  “Schindler’s List”,  “Warszawa Uprising”, etc..   but where are similar movies of heroism by Polish persons during Russian occupation?
                        Regards
                        Zbigniew

                        From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Pauline Jarney
                        Sent: August 1, 2007 7:28 PM
                        To: kresy-siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers
                        Probably the  people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it.  What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my door with guns in hand and told me to pack because we were being deported.    I have no guns in my home.  I have three children.  Would I resist them so they would not kill my children before my very eyes to prove a point?  I would pack and pray for the best.  I pray we never have to face what our parents did.
                        It still happens.  I do not want to deviate but we all have seen examples in the post WWII era.  Boleslaw was a brave man.  He followed his heart and could not leave his family.  That was a sign of unconditional love.   Someone should film a movie about him. 

                        Best Regards,
                        Paulina

                        To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                        From: styrna@shaw. ca
                        Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:13:31 -0700
                        Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers
                        The Bielski brothers, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel .   This book is about three Jewish brothers who escaped into the forests of Belarus in eastern Poland , and resisted German brutal treatment and managed to save some 1200 jews.
                        That brings up an interesting question. It seems to me that almost 2 million Polish citizens were forcibly deported to Siberia .  In the middle of the night our ancestors were rounded up and crammed into cattle trains, etc ..  It seems from all the accounts I've read or listed to, that our ancestors "sheepishly"  were "herded" into those trains. Just like we see in films how Jews were rounded up and herded into Ghettos, and into .
                        My question is ..  " did any Polish person or people, resist these deportation by the Russians ? "  Was there any one who fought with the Russians prior to being loaded into the trains?  They all knew they were being deported to Siberia !!  So why did we not do anything about it ?
                        I know that in my family's case, my mom's brother escaped via a back door as the Russians broke into the house in the middle of the night.   He fled into the dense woods and hid overnight.  But alas, when the sunlight came, he saw a large number of the village people were herded together and they were all forced to march in the snow towards the train station several kilometers away.   So when Boleslaw saw his entire family departing, he could not bring himself to abandon them, to be left all alone I suppose.   It was a very hard emotional decision for him.
                        So he unwillingly came out of the woods and sheepishly joined the herd.
                        I wonder if there was any resistance ?  If there were any fights, shootings, etc.  or did we just give in....
                        Regards
                        Zbigniew

                        From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy- Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jan Niechwiadowicz
                        Sent: August 1, 2007 2:53 AM
                        To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers
                        Dear Group,

                        As you may be aware the story of the Bielski brothers is to be
                        made into a movie. There are concerns amongst some of us that this
                        will not give a fair impression of the role of Poles during the Second
                        World War.

                        I am currently reading Peter Duffy book, which I believe the film is
                        to be based on. Am about ? of the way into the book and so far I have
                        to say it appears fair. Has any other member read the book? I would
                        like to know your views on it.

                        Regards

                        Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff

                         


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                      • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                        Ha, ha . Roman, Yes , you are correct. I was wrong on the dates. It should have been Sept 17, 1939, and Feb 10, 1940 of course, probably due to old age and
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 5, 2007
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                          Ha, ha …

                           

                          Roman, Yes , you are correct.  I was wrong on the dates. It should have been Sept 17, 1939, and Feb 10, 1940 of course, probably due to old age and poor typing skills.

                           

                           

                          But I disagree with you. I believe that Most ukrainians co-operated with the Russians, and Some or very rare ones were deported. to Siberia .  None out of my mom’s village, just the one that tried to be sympathetic to Polish people prior to Feb 10.

                           

                          I was not trying to criticize people for not fighting.  Of course it would be silly of me to think that.  I know the conditions at that time very well. I just wanted to hear of any brave isolated untold stories.

                           

                          Cheers

                           

                          Zbigniew


                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of roman skulski
                          Sent: August 4, 2007 9:21 PM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                           

                          Zbyszek,

                           

                          First of all you have wrong dates of deportations.

                           

                          " Feb 17, 1939" that is some seven months before the war even started.

                           

                          "Feb 10, 1939" is also before the war.

                           

                           Majority of Ukrainians did not co-operate with the Russians, and many of them were deported to Siberia . .

                           

                          Un-armed civilians were not able to put up any resistance to armed NKVD personnel.

                           

                          On October 7, 1939 Polish Government ordered  Polish Army to go underground or try to make their way to France .

                           

                          Some Polish Army units crossed Carpathian mountains to Roumania where some of them were interned, but approximately 85,000 of them made their way to Palestine and France to continue the fight against  Germany .

                           

                          Russian deportations to Siberia were not based on individuals nationality but on individuals position before the war.Families of members of : police units, professional army personnel, government officials,etc. were first to be deported.

                           

                          Next were well to do farmers(kulaks) . Their property was confiscated and and taken over by the state, to be used to create future "kolchoz"( collective farm").

                           

                          To my knowledge there no fights,shootings. etc. people just gave in......

                           

                          Cheers,

                           

                          Roman S.

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           



                          Zbigniew Bob Styrna <styrna@shaw. ca> wrote:

                          Paulina, Eve, Elzunia, Michael, Bozenia, Krys and others,

                          Thank you very much for your replies/input.

                          Seems all the recollections are just like all my relative’s versions also.

                          Right after Occupation by the Russians in Feb 17, 1939, they Collect/confiscated all the guns prior to deportations.  Then removed all Polish people from power job positions (a lot were arrested, etc) Then , on Feb 10, 1940, in the Middle of the night surprise attack, armed Russians and Ukrainians forcibly herded Polish civilians into cattle trains. To keep the ‘herd” from revolting/fighting back, they were not told by their captors that they were being deported to Siberia .

                          I was interested in what resistance the Polish people put up in this situation.  Resistance against the Russians.  Not resistance against the Germans/Nazis, as was the case with the Bielski brothers.

                          As you all know, the Bielski brothers story is about three Jewish fellows, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel  that resisted the Germans in 1941 in north eastern Poland (Kresy)  an area now known as Belarus . Their story started way after the time that all the Polish people were deported to Siberia .

                          Around 2 Million Polish civilians were deported to Siberia from Kresy (eastern Poland ) prior to Germany attacking Eastern Poland/Russia.  

                          So the question is, if the Bielski brothers and their 1200 people they saved from the Germans/Nazis,  why were they not deported to Siberia by the Russians in Feb 10, 1939 ( or the subsequent two other major deportations prior to the Germans invading/attacking Russia ) like the rest of the Polish people ?

                          I already know about the brave heroics of the Jewish people during Nazi Occupation from western movies about “ Poland ” called  “The Pianist”,  “Schindler’s List”,  “Warszawa Uprising”, etc..   but where are similar movies of heroism by Polish persons during Russian occupation?

                          Regards

                          Zbigniew


                          From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Pauline Jarney
                          Sent: August 1, 2007 7:28 PM
                          To: kresy-siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                          Probably the  people who did fight back or resist are not here to tell us about it.  What would I do if in the middle of the night if soldiers knocked on my door with guns in hand and told me to pack because we were being deported.    I have no guns in my home.  I have three children.  Would I resist them so they would not kill my children before my very eyes to prove a point?  I would pack and pray for the best.  I pray we never have to face what our parents did.
                          It still happens.  I do not want to deviate but we all have seen examples in the post WWII era.  Boleslaw was a brave man.  He followed his heart and could not leave his family.  That was a sign of unconditional love.   Someone should film a movie about him. 

                          Best Regards,
                          Paulina


                          To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                          From: styrna@shaw. ca
                          Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:13:31 -0700
                          Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                          The Bielski brothers, Tuvis, Zus and Aasel .   This book is about three Jewish brothers who escaped into the forests of Belarus in eastern Poland , and resisted German brutal treatment and managed to save some 1200 jews.

                          That brings up an interesting question. It seems to me that almost 2 million Polish citizens were forcibly deported to Siberia .  In the middle of the night our ancestors were rounded up and crammed into cattle trains, etc ..  It seems from all the accounts I've read or listed to, that our ancestors "sheepishly"  were "herded" into those trains. Just like we see in films how Jews were rounded up and herded into Ghettos, and into .

                          My question is ..  " did any Polish person or people, resist these deportation by the Russians ? "  Was there any one who fought with the Russians prior to being loaded into the trains?  They all knew they were being deported to Siberia !!  So why did we not do anything about it ?

                          I know that in my family's case, my mom's brother escaped via a back door as the Russians broke into the house in the middle of the night.   He fled into the dense woods and hid overnight.  But alas, when the sunlight came, he saw a large number of the village people were herded together and they were all forced to march in the snow towards the train station several kilometers away.   So when Boleslaw saw his entire family departing, he could not bring himself to abandon them, to be left all alone I suppose.   It was a very hard emotional decision for him.

                          So he unwillingly came out of the woods and sheepishly joined the herd.

                          I wonder if there was any resistance ?  If there were any fights, shootings, etc.  or did we just give in....

                          Regards

                          Zbigniew

                          size=2 width="100%" align=center>

                          From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: Kresy- Siberia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jan Niechwiadowicz
                          Sent: August 1, 2007 2:53 AM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Help: Bielski brothers

                          Dear Group,

                          As you may be aware the story of the Bielski brothers is to be
                          made into a movie. There are concerns amongst some of us that this
                          will not give a fair impression of the role of Poles during the Second
                          World War.

                          I am currently reading Peter Duffy book, which I believe the film is
                          to be based on. Am about ? of the way into the book and so far I have
                          to say it appears fair. Has any other member read the book? I would
                          like to know your views on it.

                          Regards

                          Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff

                           

                           

                           


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                        • Linder Ladbrooke
                          Hello, Linder here. My family were kulaks , living 35 miles west of Lwow [now they can see Polish border from one of their fields, but they are in Ukraine]
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 5, 2007
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                            Hello,
                             
                            Linder here. My family were 'kulaks', living 35 miles west of Lwow [now they can see Polish border from one of their fields, but they are in Ukraine] Ethnically Ukraine, but lived in Poland for 200/300 years. Family were never deported but their land became a 'collective farm'. Russians wanted all young men to join their army, dad ran the farm so he was excused. His younger brother + 2 friends ran away to the forest near Carpathians, hid for 1 week. Russians eventually found them and said 'come out, you will not be harmed boys' - they came out, were all lined up and SHOT, we have no idea where the body went to! Nice guy's, those Russians!
                             
                            Linder
                          • roman skulski
                            Hello, Here are my two cents about Russian Army. Between January and June 1941 Soviet Government conscripted some 100,000 to 200,000 Polish citizens living in
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 5, 2007
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                              Hello,
                               
                              Here are my two cents about Russian Army.
                               
                              Between January and June 1941 Soviet Government conscripted some 100,000 to 200,000 Polish citizens living in Eastern Poland into Russian Army.
                               
                              At the time I was a teacher in a small village in the Carpathian Mountains. Early in April 1941 the principal of the school called me in to his office and handed me a document ordering me to report to the army recruiting office in Skole on April 15, 1941. It is on my 20th birthday. The principal also told me that there were a dozen local boys called  up for the  service  in the  Russian Army   and that I was going to be in charge of them until we reached recruiting office in Skole. 
                              We reached Skole in the  afternoon and  appeared  in front of the health selection committee and were classified as fit for service in various fields of the army. In my case I assigned for service in a tank battalion.
                               
                              On May 1st, 1941  I arrived in Voroszylowsk in the Northern Caucasus and became a member of a tank battalion.
                               
                              On June 25th 1941 the tank battalion left for Smolensk, all soldiers with less than three months service, some 120 men, were left behind and I was ordered to march them to a local school. I was told that I was in charge of them and that I had to march them back to the barracks three times a day, for breakfast, lunch and supper. It lasted about three weeks and then I was  ordered to march them to the railway station on a certain day. We were loaded into the cattle waggons and transported to Stanica Krymskaya, near Novorosyysk.
                               
                              They lined the thousands of us in a field and split us into units of 120 men for service in various branches of the army. I found myself in a mortar battalion being trained to use 50mm, 75mm and 120mm mortars.
                               
                              We dug out trenches along the shore line and every night, when  Germans bombed  Nvorosyysk we had to leave our tents and establish defencive line in the trenches.
                               
                              That lasted until November when we were ordered to pack all our equipment and  we started march towards Stalingrad. We walked at night ,50km a night. On November 29, 1941 we reached the town of Salsk, half way to Stalingrad.
                              We were ordered  to  stack our rifles in the square and we assumed that we were going to the public baths to be deloused and have a shower.
                              Some armed officers and sergeants arrived and ordered us to line up. They marched us through the town and to the railway station where there was a freight train waiting. We were ordered to board the waggons and the doors were shut,there were no bunk beds and we all had to stand.
                              The train travelled all afternoon and all night without stopping. It was bitterly cold.
                              The whole mass of people was rotating ,people on the outside perimeter were cold and were trying to to squeeze into the centre where it was little warmer because of the generated body heat. There was a lot of pushing, showing and swearing.
                              There was no sleep that night.
                               
                              Around 10.00-am the train stopped, the doors were  opened and the men were   told to get off the train. They were at a small station and looking around I could see a sign on a building " STANICA PAVLOVSKAYA".
                               
                              That is how I became a member of working battalion.
                               
                              To dig anti-tank trenches from 6.00am  to 7.00pm, 27 cubic meters a day, 7 days a week, on 400 grams of bread  watery soup for breakfast and supper and a large ladle of corn on a cob mash for lunch.
                               
                              If you did not dig out 27 cubic meters they cut your bread ration as an encouragement to do better.
                               
                              Cheers,
                               
                              Roman Skulski
                              Poland and WWII 1939-1945
                               
                               
                               
                              Linder Ladbrooke <ladbrooke@...> wrote:
                              Hello,
                               
                              Linder here. My family were 'kulaks', living 35 miles west of Lwow [now they can see Polish border from one of their fields, but they are in Ukraine] Ethnically Ukraine, but lived in Poland for 200/300 years. Family were never deported but their land became a 'collective farm'. Russians wanted all young men to join their army, dad ran the farm so he was excused. His younger brother + 2 friends ran away to the forest near Carpathians, hid for 1 week. Russians eventually found them and said 'come out, you will not be harmed boys' - they came out, were all lined up and SHOT, we have no idea where the body went to! Nice guy's, those Russians!
                               
                              Linder


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                            • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                              Roman, Wow, Some nasty brutal dose of reality. Thank you for sharing this part of your life. God, it must have been terrible for a young man to survive back
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 5, 2007
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                                Roman,

                                 

                                Wow,

                                 

                                Some nasty brutal dose of reality.  Thank you for sharing this part of your life. God, it must have been terrible for a young man to survive back then. 

                                 

                                And now all the young man talk about is ,……there is nothing on TV dad,   etc..     !!!

                                 

                                 

                                Regards

                                 

                                Zbigniew

                                 

                                 

                                 


                                From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of roman skulski
                                Sent: August 5, 2007 8:08 PM
                                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] RE: Conscription to Russian Army in 1941

                                 

                                Hello,

                                 

                                Here are my two cents about Russian Army.

                                 

                                Between January and June 1941 Soviet Government conscripted some 100,000 to 200,000 Polish citizens living in Eastern Poland into Russian Army.

                                 

                                At the time I was a teacher in a small village in the Carpathian Mountains . Early in April 1941 the principal of the school called me in to his office and handed me a document ordering me to report to the army recruiting office in Skole on April 15, 1941. It is on my 20th birthday. The principal also told me that there were a dozen local boys called  up for the  service  in the  Russian Army   and that I was going to be in charge of them until we reached recruiting office in Skole. 
                                We reached Skole in the  afternoon and  appeared  in front of the health selection committee and were classified as fit for service in various fields of the army. In my case I assigned for service in a tank battalion.

                                 

                                On May 1st, 1941  I arrived in Voroszylowsk in the Northern Caucasus and became a member of a tank battalion.

                                 

                                On June 25th 1941 the tank battalion left for Smolensk , all soldiers with less than three months service, some 120 men, were left behind and I was ordered to march them to a local school. I was told that I was in charge of them and that I had to march them back to the barracks three times a day, for breakfast, lunch and supper. It lasted about three weeks and then I was  ordered to march them to the railway station on a certain day. We were loaded into the cattle waggons and transported to Stanica Krymskaya, near Novorosyysk.

                                 

                                They lined the thousands of us in a field and split us into units of 120 men for service in various branches of the army. I found myself in a mortar battalion being trained to use 50mm, 75mm and 120mm mortars.

                                 

                                We dug out trenches along the shore line and every night, when  Germans bombed  Nvorosyysk we had to leave our tents and establish defencive line in the trenches.

                                 

                                That lasted until November when we were ordered to pack all our equipment and  we started march towards Stalingrad . We walked at night ,50km a night. On November 29, 1941 we reached the town of Salsk , half way to Stalingrad .

                                We were ordered  to  stack our rifles in the square and we assumed that we were going to the public baths to be deloused and have a shower.

                                Some armed officers and sergeants arrived and ordered us to line up. They marched us through the town and to the railway station where there was a freight train waiting. We were ordered to board the waggons and the doors were shut,there were no bunk beds and we all had to stand.

                                The train travelled all afternoon and all night without stopping. It was bitterly cold.

                                The whole mass of people was rotating ,people on the outside perimeter were cold and were trying to to squeeze into the centre where it was little warmer because of the generated body heat. There was a lot of pushing, showing and swearing.

                                There was no sleep that night.

                                 

                                Around 10.00-am the train stopped, the doors were  opened and the men were   told to get off the train. They were at a small station and looking around I could see a sign on a building " STANICA PAVLOVSKAYA" .

                                 

                                That is how I became a member of working battalion.

                                 

                                To dig anti-tank trenches from 6.00am  to 7.00pm, 27 cubic meters a day, 7 days a week, on 400 grams of bread  watery soup for breakfast and supper and a large ladle of corn on a cob mash for lunch.

                                 

                                If you did not dig out 27 cubic meters they cut your bread ration as an encouragement to do better.

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                 

                                Roman Skulski

                                Poland and WWII 1939-1945

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Linder Ladbrooke <ladbrooke@ntlworld. com> wrote:

                                Hello,

                                 

                                Linder here. My family were 'kulaks', living 35 miles west of Lwow [now they can see Polish border from one of their fields, but they are in Ukraine ] Ethnically Ukraine , but lived in Poland for 200/300 years. Family were never deported but their land became a 'collective farm'. Russians wanted all young men to join their army, dad ran the farm so he was excused. His younger brother + 2 friends ran away to the forest near Carpathians, hid for 1 week. Russians eventually found them and said 'come out, you will not be harmed boys' - they came out, were all lined up and SHOT, we have no idea where the body went to! Nice guy's, those Russians!

                                 

                                Linder

                                 

                                 


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