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Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 327

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  • H. MacDonald
    I have read, more than once, both of Keith Sword s books and recommend them. Good charts and stats; they also offer good background for the reader who knows
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 7, 2002
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      I have read, more than once, both of Keith Sword's books and recommend them.
      Good charts and stats; they also offer good background for the reader who
      knows little of the deportations and of Polish/Russian relations vis-a-vis
      deportation history. They are readable AND interesting to read. They also
      provide lots of citations for tracing sources esp. of use to anyone who
      wants to dig deeper. His work is a gift to researchers...
      Helen.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:54 PM
      Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Digest Number 327



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      There are 9 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Re: Sorry... I miswrote... of course I meant "Straws in the
      Wind"
      From: "b.davoust" <b.davoust@...>
      2. Re: Historical Fiction
      From: Eve5J@...
      3. Anders film
      From: "Lech K. Lesiak" <lklesiak@...>
      4. Re: Anders film
      From: "b.davoust" <b.davoust@...>
      5. The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939-41 bool?
      From: "fourthskorpion" <stefan@...>
      6. Re: Anders film
      From: S & J Szybalski <julsta@...>
      7. Re: The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939-41
      From: Paul Havers <haverp@...>
      8. Re: Anders film
      From: jagna8@...
      9. Re: The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939...
      From: jagna8@...


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      Message: 1
      Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:10:56 +0200
      From: "b.davoust" <b.davoust@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: Sorry... I miswrote... of course I meant "Straws in the
      Wind"

      Grace,
      Not to get into a philosphical discussion of what history is, because it's a
      never ending subject, but "history" is intended to be an objective account
      of something, based on archives, eyewitness accounts, or other, preferably
      primary, source material. Whether this is always, or even often, the case
      is of course subject to debate, because every historian approaches his
      subject with certain ideas or theses to be proved, as well as his/her own
      political opinions, etc. (A few years ago I read all eleven or whatever
      number of volumes of Churchill's History of WW2. I kept waiting for him to
      mention the camps in Germany, or the Polish deportations -- nothing!! There
      was surely a mention of the Polish Army being formed and going to the Middle
      East, but with no explanation of how they came to be there.)
      Furthermore, a history book should offer backing for what is said, so that
      other people can look up the information and decided whether the conclusions
      drawn are justified -- hence the footnotes, bibliographies, etc found at the
      end.
      Fiction doesn't have to do any of that. At the beginning of most novels,
      you will find a disclaimer like, "all the people in the book at creations of
      the author", even when it is placed in a historical setting. No author can
      possibly know what people thought at the time, so dialogue can only be
      imagined. This does not mean that you cannot write a novel that doesn't
      ring true. I recently read a very good book about an Austrian Jew who spent
      the war interned in New Zealand, and it really sounded realistic. But it
      was a novel.
      So I think that there is room for both on this subject of the Polish
      deportations. Since the Soviet archives are only slowly beginning to open
      up, and even so they were probably not as complete as German archives would
      be, and the survivors are disappearing, or unwilling to talk about it, and
      in any case, memories fade -- not for important things, but nuances are
      lost, it is important that history books be written and documentaries be
      made. At the same time, it's good that novels be written too (and movies
      made) to reach a wider audience and to make others than those directly
      concerned aware of what happened.

      Barbara Davoust (have to specify the last name, there are so many Barbaras
      now!)



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      Message: 2
      Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:23:07 EDT
      From: Eve5J@...
      Subject: Re: Historical Fiction

      All the novels mentioned here fall under the genre of historical
      fiction which must be based on historical fact. If one takes the
      trouble to write a book, why not base it on the actual history?
      It is the duty of a good writer to check and recheck the facts.
      There is a certain amount of research done for any novel,
      even one that is not historical. There is nothing worse than
      reading something in a book that one knows is not true or
      plausible. Such books are usually ripped apart by the critics
      and its readers tend to feel ripped off as well.

      That is not to say that a writer of historical fiction cannot add a
      fictional place, etc., but everything contained in such a book has
      to be historically accurate. Usually these writers will separate
      truth from fiction in a foreword or author's notes.

      Eve Jankowicz







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      Message: 3
      Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 08:09:30 -0600 (MDT)
      From: "Lech K. Lesiak" <lklesiak@...>
      Subject: Anders film


      I agree that it's unlikely that Hollywood is interested in filming Anders'
      life and accomplishments. The North American zeitgeist seems to preclude
      that. A number of films have been made in the US about the 1943 ghetto
      uprsing, but none, to the best of my knowledge, about the 1944 bigger
      Warsaw resistance operation despite that it inflicted considerably more
      damage on the German occupiers.

      Having said that, there is no reason why a Polish film maker couldn't do
      it. I have it on good authority that there are several good Polish
      directors who make films of substance.

      Lech Lesiak
      Calgary, Alberta

      'There's no problem too big to run away from'
      - Charlie Brown, circa 1974




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      Message: 4
      Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 17:07:14 +0200
      From: "b.davoust" <b.davoust@...>
      Subject: Re: Anders film

      Like Wajda for example? Wasn't there a film called Ashes and Diamonds back
      in the 1960's about the Warsaw Uprising? I don't remember the name of the
      director, but I know it was a Polish film that was shown abroad.
      There was a period in the mid-60's and then the seventies when there were
      quite a few good Polish film directors (Polanski at the beginning, Wajda, I
      can't remember the others although I have seen some of their films although
      not in Canada), but there haven't been many in the past decade. From what I
      read, funding is no longer by the state, but needs private funds, and since
      directors have to many a film to please more people if they are to attract
      financing, the subjects treated are not necessarily the same.

      Barbara Davoust



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      Message: 5
      Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 15:19:52 -0000
      From: "fourthskorpion" <stefan@...>
      Subject: The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939-41 bool?

      Hi to list,

      Before I buy these books I Just wondered if anyone has read any
      of the three listed volumes and what thoughts you might have
      about them?

      The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939-41
      by Keith Sword (Editor)
      Hardcover: Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan; ISBN: 0312055706;
      (July 1991)

      Deportation and Exile: Poles in the Soviet Union, 1939-48
      (Studies in Russia and East Europe) by Keith Sword
      Hardcover: 269 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 8.82 x 1.11 x
      5.73 Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan; ASIN: 0312123973; ()

      Soviet Prisons and Concentration Camps : An Annotated
      Bibliography, 1917-1980; by Libushe Zorin-Obrusnikova, L Zorin
      Hardcover: Publisher: Oriental Research Partners; ISBN:
      0892500867; (October 1980)

      Best regards, Stefan Mucha (UK)



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      Message: 6
      Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 11:32:38 -0500
      From: S & J Szybalski <julsta@...>
      Subject: Re: Anders film

      Fully agree. There is one problem: if it would be marketable, as younger
      generation who grew up learning falsified history have very limited or non
      knowledge about Anders. If you'd check on the internet museum of PRL, you'd
      learn how they're taught about Anders, so you'll understand.

      About Warsaw Uprising was made a film "Kanal" which I believe was shown on
      TCM
      on one of the Fridays at 2 AM. Last night was "The Ashes and Diamonds" which
      was shown already several times there in the past.

      Who was watching it from our group ? I taped, even though I bought this film
      probably 25 years ago in Crazy Eddy and on previous airings on TCM.

      Stas

      Lech K. Lesiak wrote:

      > I agree that it's unlikely that Hollywood is interested in filming Anders'
      > life and accomplishments. The North American zeitgeist seems to preclude
      > that. A number of films have been made in the US about the 1943 ghetto
      > uprsing, but none, to the best of my knowledge, about the 1944 bigger
      > Warsaw resistance operation despite that it inflicted considerably more
      > damage on the German occupiers.
      >
      > Having said that, there is no reason why a Polish film maker couldn't do
      > it. I have it on good authority that there are several good Polish
      > directors who make films of substance.
      >
      > Lech Lesiak
      > Calgary, Alberta
      >
      > 'There's no problem too big to run away from'
      > - Charlie Brown, circa 1974
      >
      >
      >
      ***************************************************************************
      > * KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = Research, Remembrance, Recognition
      > **
      > * Discussion site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
      > * Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
      > **
      > * Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
      > * Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      > **
      > * To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail saying who you are
      > * and your interest in the group to:
      > * Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >
      ***************************************************************************
      >
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      Message: 7
      Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 17:16:55 +0100
      From: Paul Havers <haverp@...>
      Subject: Re: The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939-41

      Interesting books, if you decide to buy them a review would be appreciated

      Paul

      At 15:19 09/07/2002 +0000, you wrote:
      >Hi to list,
      >
      >Before I buy these books I Just wondered if anyone has read any
      >of the three listed volumes and what thoughts you might have
      >about them?
      >
      >The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939-41
      >by Keith Sword (Editor)
      >Hardcover: Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan; ISBN: 0312055706;
      >(July 1991)
      >
      >Deportation and Exile: Poles in the Soviet Union, 1939-48
      >(Studies in Russia and East Europe) by Keith Sword
      >Hardcover: 269 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 8.82 x 1.11 x
      >5.73 Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan; ASIN: 0312123973; ()
      >
      >Soviet Prisons and Concentration Camps : An Annotated
      >Bibliography, 1917-1980; by Libushe Zorin-Obrusnikova, L Zorin
      >Hardcover: Publisher: Oriental Research Partners; ISBN:
      >0892500867; (October 1980)
      >
      >Best regards, Stefan Mucha (UK)
      >
      >
      >
      >***************************************************************************
      >* KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = Research, Remembrance, Recognition
      >**
      >* Discussion site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
      >* Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
      >**
      >* Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
      >* Send e-mails to: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
      >**
      >* To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail saying who you are
      >* and your interest in the group to:
      >* Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >***************************************************************************
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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      Message: 8
      Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:30:22 EDT
      From: jagna8@...
      Subject: Re: Anders film

      I have only now come across an interview in Dziennik Polski from 7
      March,2002
      with two women from Poland, maria Dluzewska and Maryna Miklaszewska.
      They are both professional film makers, who are currently working on a
      script
      for a 20 part series for Polish television about the Second Corps. This is
      intended for Polish TV, but they are also planning a script for a full
      lenght
      feature film.
      They were in London to do their research, interview the veterans, etc, as
      well as ensure the support of Polish 'emigree' circles. President R.
      Kaczorowski agreed to be the patron of the project, and promised his help -
      as did Jan Nowak Jezioranski.
      Anybody who wishes to help is asked to contact their historical consultant,
      Andrzej K. Kunert, at Archiwum Polski Podziemnej 1939-1956, Muzeum X
      Pawilonu
      Cytadeli Warszawskiej, ul. Skazancow 25, 01-783 Warszawa, fax: 0048 22
      8399579.
      This seems to be very good news! Jagna Wright


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      Message: 9
      Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:36:13 EDT
      From: jagna8@...
      Subject: Re: The Soviet Takeover of the Polish Eastern Provinces, 1939...

      Keith Sword;s book is excellent, if slightly academic. He set out to cover
      1940 deportations, only to discover that it was just a continuation of an
      old
      Russian tradition, which was to be continued even after the war. Worth
      having! Jagna Wright


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