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Wolyn

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  • Krystyna Duszniak
    Hi everyone, Does anyone have information about historical documentation from the Wolyn area, such as civil records from the 20th century and earlier? The
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 7, 2006
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      Hi everyone,
      Does anyone have information about historical documentation from the Wolyn
      area, such as civil records from the 20th century and earlier? The specific
      village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know anything about its
      present state, and the extent of war-destruction in the area etc? One of my
      clients urgently needs his dad's birth record from Chryniki from 1924, or
      any other records of the family's life there. Any contacts, advice, etc,
      would be very much appreciated.
      regards,
      Krystyna Duszniak

      Melbourne, Australia

      losthistories@...
    • COLIN KEENS
      Hi Krysia, All details relating to the Kresy area are now dealt with in Warszawa. There is a special department. I think it is called Dzial Zaburzanski
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 7, 2006
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        Hi Krysia,
         
        All details relating to the Kresy area are now dealt with in Warszawa.   There is a special department.     I think it is called 'Dzial Zaburzanski' i.e. the Department across the Bug River.   (Someone else may know the exact translation.)  It is part of the Wojewoda Mazowiecki area.
         
        (My half brother in Warszawa went through them when I need confirmation of my father's Polish citizenship details when I applied for citizenship for myself.)
        Try the website for Polish government depts in Warszawa - you may be able to find something.
         
        Good luck
        Bozenka Skrzywanek-Keens

        Krystyna Duszniak <losthistories@...> wrote:
        Hi everyone,
        Does anyone have information about historical documentation from the Wolyn
        area, such as civil records from the 20th century and earlier? The specific
        village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know anything about its
        present state, and the extent of war-destruction in the area etc? One of my
        clients urgently needs his dad's birth record from Chryniki from 1924, or
        any other records of the family's life there. Any contacts, advice, etc,
        would be very much appreciated.
        regards,
        Krystyna Duszniak

        Melbourne, Australia

        losthistories@...




      • Krystyna Duszniak
        Hi Bozenka, thanks for that - I have written a letter to those archives already (Archiwum Akt Zaburzanskich) and if I find out they do hold some records there
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 7, 2006
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          Hi Bozenka,
          thanks for that - I have written a letter to those archives already
          (Archiwum Akt Zaburzanskich) and if I find out they do hold some records
          there from the Wolyn area, I will let you all know.
          regards,
          Krystyna Duszniak

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: COLIN KEENS
          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:22 AM
          Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Wolyn


          Hi Krysia,

          All details relating to the Kresy area are now dealt with in Warszawa.
          There is a special department. I think it is called 'Dzial Zaburzanski'
          i.e. the Department across the Bug River. (Someone else may know the exact
          translation.) It is part of the Wojewoda Mazowiecki area.

          (My half brother in Warszawa went through them when I need confirmation of
          my father's Polish citizenship details when I applied for citizenship for
          myself.)
          Try the website for Polish government depts in Warszawa - you may be able to
          find something.

          Good luck
          Bozenka Skrzywanek-Keens

          Krystyna Duszniak <losthistories@...> wrote:
          Hi everyone,
          Does anyone have information about historical documentation from the Wolyn
          area, such as civil records from the 20th century and earlier? The specific
          village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know anything about its
          present state, and the extent of war-destruction in the area etc? One of my
          clients urgently needs his dad's birth record from Chryniki from 1924, or
          any other records of the family's life there. Any contacts, advice, etc,
          would be very much appreciated.
          regards,
          Krystyna Duszniak

          Melbourne, Australia

          losthistories@...







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        • Andy Golebiowski
          Krysia, Sometime last year we exchanged a lot of information on Kresy records. Perhaps before you were on the list. Here is an excerpt of one of my messages
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 7, 2006
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            Krysia,
            Sometime last year we exchanged a lot of information on Kresy records. Perhaps before you were on the list.
             
            Here is an excerpt of one of my messages back in October:
             
            Here is an excerpt from a message that was recently
            posted on the list that contains links to archives in
            Poland that handle materials from the eastern
            provinces:

            Vital documents from central and southern Kresy (woj.
            wolynskie,
            lwowskie,
            tarnopolskie and stanislawowskie) from before 1945 are
            held by the
            "Archiwum
            Zabużańskie" at the Bureau of Vital Statistics
            in Warsaw. Here is
            their address:

            Archiwum Zabużańskie przy Urzędzie Stanu
            Cywilnego
            Warszawa-Śródmieście (ul.
            Smyczkowa 14, PL 02-678 Warszawa, tel. +48 (22)
            847-48-21, fax: +48
            (22) 847-88-36) 

            You can request copies of certificates by letter with
            the year and
            place of death, baptism
            or marriage.

            According to the following page the "Archiwum
            Zabuzanskie"
            (zabuzanskie=beyond the
            Bug River) do not have all the records from the
            mentioned provinces.
            For example some
            Wolyn records are kept at the Katolicki Uniwersytet
            Lubelski. If your
            family members were
            not Roman Cathokic, the records may be at the Archiwum
            Akt Dawnych
            http://www.ornatowski.com/arch-par.htm

            There is also an English language database search page
            to figure out
            where the records
            from a certain town are kept at:
            http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.eng.php
            Just beware that for some reason Poles now translate
            "gmina" as
            "commune" and it has
            nothing to do with "hippy communes". "Gmina" of
            course, is similar to
            our "town" or
            "township" in the US (a collection of localities).

            Here is a HUGE page with all sorts of links to aid you
            in finding
            documents in Poland:
            http://worsten.org/indeksoj/archiwa_panstwowe_pl.htm

            I also found places for other eastern provinces at:
            http://republika.pl/slucki/archzab.htm

            Good luck !

            Andy Golebiowski
            Buffalo, NY
            USA
            Andy Golebiowski
            Buffalo, NY
            USA
             
            Message: 10       
               Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:03:29 +1100
               From: "Krystyna Duszniak" <losthistories@...>
            Subject: Wolyn

            Hi everyone,
            Does anyone have information about historical documentation from the
            Wolyn
            area, such as civil records from the 20th century and earlier? The
            specific
            village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know anything about
            its
            present state, and the extent of war-destruction in the area etc? One
            of my
            clients urgently needs his dad's birth record from Chryniki from 1924,
            or
            any other records of the family's life there. Any contacts, advice,
            etc,
            would be very much appreciated.
            regards,
            Krystyna Duszniak

            Melbourne, Australia


            Yahoo! Mail
            Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
          • Michael Kulik
            ... The specific village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know anything about its present state, and the extent of war-destruction in the area etc?
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 8, 2006
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              --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Krystyna Duszniak"
              <losthistories@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi everyone,
              The specific village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know
              anything about its present state, and the extent of war-destruction in
              the area etc? Any contacts, advice, etc, would be very much appreciated.
              > regards,
              > Krystyna Duszniak
              >
              > Melbourne, Australia
              >
              >

              Hi,

              Try my friend Slav at http://www.lvivecotour.com/

              I first used his services in 2004, following which a number of Kresy
              Siberia members have also hired him.

              He should be able to find out info for you regarding the village,
              although he is not presently offering a general document finding
              service.

              Michael Kulik
              Walsall
              England
            • Krystyna Duszniak
              thanks you, I will try him! regards, Krystyna ... From: Michael Kulik To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:49 AM Subject:
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 8, 2006
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                thanks you, I will try him!
                regards,
                 
                Krystyna
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:49 AM
                Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Wolyn

                --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Krystyna Duszniak"
                <losthistories@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi everyone,
                The specific village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know
                anything about its present state, and the extent of war-destruction in
                the area etc? Any contacts, advice, etc, would be very much appreciated.
                > regards,
                > Krystyna Duszniak
                >
                > Melbourne, Australia
                >
                >

                Hi,

                Try my friend Slav at  http://www.lvivecotour.com/

                I first used his services in 2004, following which a number of Kresy
                Siberia members have also hired him.

                He should be able to find out info for you regarding the village,
                although he is not presently offering a general document finding
                service. 

                Michael Kulik
                Walsall
                England



              • ted sebestianski
                Hi Andy. Poniewaz z kuzynem budujemy strone z Wolynia -wiec kuzyn przyslam mnie dane gdzie mozna znalezc niektore dane -zalaczam ta strone. Tadek ... From:
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 17, 2006
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                  Hi Andy.
                  Poniewaz z kuzynem budujemy strone z Wolynia -wiec kuzyn przyslam mnie dane gdzie mozna znalezc niektore dane -zalaczam ta strone.
                  Tadek
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:41 PM
                  Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Wolyn

                  Krysia,
                  Sometime last year we exchanged a lot of information on Kresy records. Perhaps before you were on the list.
                   
                  Here is an excerpt of one of my messages back in October:
                   
                  Here is an excerpt from a message that was recently
                  posted on the list that contains links to archives in
                  Poland that handle materials from the eastern
                  provinces:

                  Vital documents from central and southern Kresy (woj.
                  wolynskie,
                  lwowskie,
                  tarnopolskie and stanislawowskie) from before 1945 are
                  held by the
                  "Archiwum
                  Zabużańskie" at the Bureau of Vital Statistics
                  in Warsaw. Here is
                  their address:

                  Archiwum Zabużańskie przy Urzędzie Stanu
                  Cywilnego
                  Warszawa-Śródmieście (ul.
                  Smyczkowa 14, PL 02-678 Warszawa, tel. +48 (22)
                  847-48-21, fax: +48
                  (22) 847-88-36) 

                  You can request copies of certificates by letter with
                  the year and
                  place of death, baptism
                  or marriage.

                  According to the following page the "Archiwum
                  Zabuzanskie"
                  (zabuzanskie=beyond the
                  Bug River) do not have all the records from the
                  mentioned provinces.
                  For example some
                  Wolyn records are kept at the Katolicki Uniwersytet
                  Lubelski. If your
                  family members were
                  not Roman Cathokic, the records may be at the Archiwum
                  Akt Dawnych
                  http://www.ornatowski.com/arch-par.htm

                  There is also an English language database search page
                  to figure out
                  where the records
                  from a certain town are kept at:
                  http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.eng.php
                  Just beware that for some reason Poles now translate
                  "gmina" as
                  "commune" and it has
                  nothing to do with "hippy communes". "Gmina" of
                  course, is similar to
                  our "town" or
                  "township" in the US (a collection of localities).

                  Here is a HUGE page with all sorts of links to aid you
                  in finding
                  documents in Poland:
                  http://worsten.org/indeksoj/archiwa_panstwowe_pl.htm

                  I also found places for other eastern provinces at:
                  http://republika.pl/slucki/archzab.htm

                  Good luck !

                  Andy Golebiowski
                  Buffalo, NY
                  USA
                  Andy Golebiowski
                  Buffalo, NY
                  USA
                   
                  Message: 10       
                     Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:03:29 +1100
                     From: "Krystyna Duszniak" <losthistories@...>
                  Subject: Wolyn

                  Hi everyone,
                  Does anyone have information about historical documentation from the
                  Wolyn
                  area, such as civil records from the 20th century and earlier? The
                  specific
                  village which interests me is Chryniki. Does anyone know anything about
                  its
                  present state, and the extent of war-destruction in the area etc? One
                  of my
                  clients urgently needs his dad's birth record from Chryniki from 1924,
                  or
                  any other records of the family's life there. Any contacts, advice,
                  etc,
                  would be very much appreciated.
                  regards,
                  Krystyna Duszniak

                  Melbourne, Australia


                  Yahoo! Mail
                  Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.


                  Upgrade Your Email - Click here!

                • janusz_ks
                  ... And how was it translated before? ... No, but it has a lot to do with the French commune :-) It s s the lowest unit of administrative division in
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 17, 2009
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                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Andy Golebiowski
                    <andywbuffalo@...> wrote:

                    > Just beware that for some reason Poles now translate
                    > "gmina" as "commune"
                    And how was it translated before?

                    > and it has
                    > nothing to do with "hippy communes".
                    No, but it has a lot to do with the French 'commune' :-)
                    It's s the lowest unit of administrative division in Poland.
                    The nearest UK equivalent is 'civil parish'.

                    > "Gmina" of
                    > course, is similar to
                    > our "town" or
                    > "township" in the US (a collection of localities).
                    "township" or "borough" may be similar, but not "town".
                  • Barbara Scrivens
                    Dear group, Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine? When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 4 12:27 PM
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                      Dear group,

                       

                      Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                       

                      When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                       

                      Thanks,

                      Barbara Scrivens

                      Auckland

                    • Lenarda Szymczak
                      Hi Barbara Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 4 2:29 PM
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                        Hi Barbara

                         

                        Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                         

                        Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                         

                        I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                         

                        All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                         

                        Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                         

                        Warm regards

                        Lenarda

                        Sydney Australia

                         

                        From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                        Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                         

                         

                        Dear group,

                         

                        Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                         

                        When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Barbara Scrivens

                        Auckland

                      • Basia
                        Hi Lenarda Thank you for clarification. I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 4 8:07 PM
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                          Hi Lenarda
                          Thank you for clarification.
                          I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.
                          I am confident I will find what I am looking for
                          Warm regards
                          Basia Zielinska
                          -- 

                          Basia 


                          From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                          Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                          To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                           

                          Hi Barbara

                           

                          Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                           

                          Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                           

                          I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                           

                          All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                           

                          Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                           

                          Warm regards

                          Lenarda

                          Sydney Australia

                           

                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                          Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                           

                           

                          Dear group,

                           

                          Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                           

                          When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                           

                          Thanks,

                          Barbara Scrivens

                          Auckland

                        • Lenarda Szymczak
                          Hi Basia Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists. To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 5 12:17 AM
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                            Hi Basia

                             

                            Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                             

                            To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                             

                            Warm regards

                            Lenarda

                            Sydney Australia

                             

                             

                            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                            Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                             

                             

                            Hi Lenarda

                            Thank you for clarification.

                            I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                            I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                            Warm regards

                            Basia Zielinska

                            -- 

                             

                            Basia 

                             

                             

                            From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                            Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                            To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                             

                             

                            Hi Barbara

                             

                            Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                             

                            Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                             

                            I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                             

                            All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                             

                            Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                             

                            Warm regards

                            Lenarda

                            Sydney Australia

                             

                            From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                            Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                             

                             

                            Dear group,

                             

                            Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                             

                            When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                             

                            Thanks,

                            Barbara Scrivens

                            Auckland

                          • Barbara Scrivens
                            With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 5 2:52 AM
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                              With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                               

                              All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                               

                              I am asking, why?

                               

                              As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                               

                              So, I have four sections of years –

                              Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                              After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                              After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                              After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                               

                              All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                               

                              Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                               

                              Barbara Scrivens

                              Auckland

                              (not the Basia from ?)

                               

                               

                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                              Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                               

                               

                              Hi Basia

                               

                              Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                               

                              To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                               

                              Warm regards

                              Lenarda

                              Sydney Australia

                               

                               

                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                              Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                               

                               

                              Hi Lenarda

                              Thank you for clarification.

                              I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                              I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                              Warm regards

                              Basia Zielinska

                              -- 

                               

                              Basia 

                               

                               

                              From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                              Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                              To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                               

                               

                              Hi Barbara

                               

                              Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                               

                              Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                               

                              I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                               

                              All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                               

                              Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                               

                              Warm regards

                              Lenarda

                              Sydney Australia

                               

                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                              Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                               

                               

                              Dear group,

                               

                              Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                               

                              When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Barbara Scrivens

                              Auckland

                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4296 - Release Date: 04/05/12 07:06:00

                            • ryszardsys
                              I m not a historian with regards to when Ukraine actually existed. However, in various bits of family research I have been carrying out, I looked at various
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 5 3:24 AM
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                              • 0 Attachment
                                I'm not a historian with regards to when "Ukraine" actually existed. However, in various bits of family research I have been carrying out, I looked at various passenger lists as early as 1910 into Canada and there are a remarkable number of people where under the column Nationality, the word "Ukrainian" is clearly written.


                                Rys
                                UK

                                --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Scrivens" <scrivs@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I am asking, why?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > So, I have four sections of years â€"
                                >
                                > Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.
                                >
                                > After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.
                                >
                                > After 1945, when it became a USSR state.
                                >
                                > After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Barbara Scrivens
                                >
                                > Auckland
                                >
                                > (not the Basia from ?)
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                                > Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Basia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Warm regards
                                >
                                > Lenarda
                                >
                                > Sydney Australia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                                > Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Lenarda
                                >
                                > Thank you for clarification.
                                >
                                > I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.
                                >
                                > I am confident I will find what I am looking for
                                >
                                > Warm regards
                                >
                                > Basia Zielinska
                                >
                                > --
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Basia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                                > Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                                > To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Barbara
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA. These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE â€" NKVD/NKWD â€" THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Warm regards
                                >
                                > Lenarda
                                >
                                > Sydney Australia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                > Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear group,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                >
                                > Barbara Scrivens
                                >
                                > Auckland
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                > Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4296 - Release Date: 04/05/12 07:06:00
                                >
                              • Lenarda Szymczak
                                Hello Barbara With all due respect given, instead of using Australia, I could have used cake and made Wolyn a slice or would it be called a portion, but it is
                                Message 15 of 28 , Apr 5 4:55 AM
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                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Hello Barbara

                                   

                                  With all due respect given, instead of using Australia, I could have used cake and made Wolyn a slice or would it be called a portion, but it is still part of the cake, only named differently.  I was attempting to give a simple version for locating research material.

                                   

                                  Could another member of group, with historical background shed more knowledge on the time lines  and name changes.

                                   

                                  Warm regards

                                  Lenarda

                                  Australia

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                  Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 7:52 PM
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                   

                                  With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                                   

                                  All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                                   

                                  I am asking, why?

                                   

                                  As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                                   

                                  So, I have four sections of years –

                                  Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                  After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                  After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                                  After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                                   

                                  All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                                   

                                  Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                                   

                                  Barbara Scrivens

                                  Auckland

                                  (not the Basia from ?)

                                   

                                   

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                                  Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Basia

                                   

                                  Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                                   

                                  To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                                   

                                  Warm regards

                                  Lenarda

                                  Sydney Australia

                                   

                                   

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                                  Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Lenarda

                                  Thank you for clarification.

                                  I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                                  I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                                  Warm regards

                                  Basia Zielinska

                                  -- 

                                   

                                  Basia 

                                   

                                   

                                  From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                                  Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                                  To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Barbara

                                   

                                  Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                                   

                                  Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                                   

                                  I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                                   

                                  All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                                   

                                  Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                                   

                                  Warm regards

                                  Lenarda

                                  Sydney Australia

                                   

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                  Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                   

                                  Dear group,

                                   

                                  Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                                   

                                  When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                                   

                                  Thanks,

                                  Barbara Scrivens

                                  Auckland

                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4296 - Release Date: 04/05/12 07:06:00

                                • ted sebestianski
                                  Hi Barbara. I only wish you can read polish...there is a book of two volume about WOLYN..title WOLYNSKA EPOPEJA and history start from 981. I scan just one
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Apr 5 6:24 AM
                                  View Source
                                  • 1 Attachment
                                  • 348 KB
                                  
                                  Hi Barbara.
                                  I only wish you can read polish...there is a book of two volume about  WOLYN..title 'WOLYNSKA EPOPEJA' and history start from 981.
                                  I scan just one page ....maybe you find somebody to translate for you.
                                  TED
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:52 AM
                                  Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                  With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                                  All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                                  I am asking, why?

                                  As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                                  So, I have four sections of years –

                                  Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                  After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                  After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                                  After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                                  All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                                  Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                                  Barbara Scrivens

                                  Auckland

                                  (not the Basia from ?)

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                                  Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                  Hi Basia

                                  Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                                  To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                                  Warm regards

                                  Lenarda

                                  Sydney Australia

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                                  Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                  Hi Lenarda

                                  Thank you for clarification.

                                  I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                                  I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                                  Warm regards

                                  Basia Zielinska

                                  -- 

                                  Basia 

                                  From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                                  Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                                  To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                  Hi Barbara

                                  Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                                  Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                                  I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                                  All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                                  Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                                  Warm regards

                                  Lenarda

                                  Sydney Australia

                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                  Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                   

                                  Dear group,

                                  Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                                  When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                                  Thanks,

                                  Barbara Scrivens

                                  Auckland

                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4296 - Release Date: 04/05/12 07:06:00

                                • John Halucha
                                  Hi, Barbara. As I understand it, the part of Poland east of the Molotov-Ribbentrop line that was annexed by the Soviet Union under agreement with Hitler
                                  Message 17 of 28 , Apr 5 7:11 AM
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                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi, Barbara.
                                    As I understand it, the part of Poland east of the Molotov-Ribbentrop line that was "annexed" by the Soviet Union under agreement with Hitler became a part of the USSR only in the eyes of Stalin, Hitler and their henchmen - just as the part of western Poland that was "annexed" by Nazi Germany in 1939 became a part of the Germany only in the eyes of that cabal. Those territories were properly regarded as occupied Poland by the rest of the world, including but not limited to Poland, Britain, France and the USA.
                                    It was not until August 1945 that the puppet government installed in Warsaw by Stalin ceded the Polish Kresy to the USSR, which distributed it among its provinces of Lithuanian, Belorussian and Ukrainian SSRs. As you say, Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine did not become sovereign countries independent of the USSR for another 45 years or so.
                                    The difference is that while the annexations of 1939 were not legal because they were under the agreement of Stalin and Hitler, the annexation of 1945 was "legal" under the agreement of Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt (and their successors). Of course, as we all know, in neither set of annexations was the Polish government even consulted less say party to the transfer of its lands and people.
                                    It seems to me that the kind of misrepresentation you describe was launched deliberately by apologists for Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt but has been used so frequently that today many writers blindly parrot what they have seen before and keep the illusion alive. One thing that they don't seem to realize is that by deeming the Polish lands "Soviet" retroactively to 1939, they are implicitly apologists for Hitler too.
                                    This kind of confused writing is often perpetrated by people who reject the German annexation of 1939 at the same time as they endorse the Soviet annexation of 1939. Some, to the extent that when they refer to Auschwitz in the German-annexed zone, they call it a "Polish death camp" and hide reference to Germany altogether.
                                    We can only hope that efforts like yours to set the language straight will someday succeed. Until then, many naive readers (and some educated professional historians) will remain under the misimpression that eastern Poland became part of the Soviet Union or Lithuania or Belarus or Ukraine in 1939.
                                    Anyone who appreciates the value of history should be careful not to dismiss this concern about language as some sort of minor semantics discussion. Back-dating the Soviet takeover to 1939 serves to let Churchill and Roosevelt off the hook for their collusion with Stalin at Teheran in 1943 and Yalta in 1944 to annex half of their ally against Nazi Germany, Poland. They try to hide their implicit endorsement of Hitler's annexations with another subtle slight of hand by using the outdated term "Curzon line" rather than the contemporaneous and accurate term, "Molotov-Ribbentrop line".
                                    Don't let them get away with it any more. Brava!

                                    John Halucha
                                    Sault Ste Marie, Canada


                                    From: Barbara Scrivens <scrivs@...>
                                    To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 5:52:12 AM
                                    Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                     
                                    With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  
                                     All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.
                                    I am asking, why?
                                    As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.
                                    So, I have four sections of years –
                                    Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.
                                    After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.
                                    After 1945, when it became a USSR state.
                                    After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.
                                    All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.
                                    Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  
                                    Barbara Scrivens
                                    Auckland

                                  • Barbara Scrivens
                                    Hi Ted, I’m not fluent by any means, but there is nothing like personal interest in a subject to get my Polish dictionaries out, and when I get really stuck,
                                    Message 18 of 28 , Apr 5 12:25 PM
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                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Hi Ted,

                                       

                                      I’m not fluent by any means, but there is nothing like personal interest in a subject to get my Polish dictionaries out, and when I get really stuck, I have an angel who helps me. Unfortunately, your scan didn’t come through that well for me.

                                       

                                      Do you have more details about this book? The author, or the publisher?

                                       

                                      Many thanks,

                                      Barbara Scrivens

                                      Auckland

                                       

                                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ted sebestianski
                                      Sent: Friday, 6 April 2012 1:24 a.m.
                                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn [1 Attachment]

                                       

                                       

                                      [Attachment(s) from ted sebestianski included below]

                                      ?

                                      Hi Barbara.

                                      I only wish you can read polish...there is a book of two volume about  WOLYN..title 'WOLYNSKA EPOPEJA' and history start from 981.

                                      I scan just one page .....maybe you find somebody to translate for you.

                                      TED

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:52 AM

                                      Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                       

                                       

                                      With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                                      All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                                      I am asking, why?

                                      As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                                      So, I have four sections of years –

                                      Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                      After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                      After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                                      After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                                      All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                                      Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                                      Barbara Scrivens

                                      Auckland

                                      (not the Basia from ?)

                                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                                      Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                       

                                      Hi Basia

                                      Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                                      To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                                      Warm regards

                                      Lenarda

                                      Sydney Australia

                                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                                      Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                       

                                      Hi Lenarda

                                      Thank you for clarification.

                                      I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                                      I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                                      Warm regards

                                      Basia Zielinska

                                      -- 

                                      Basia 

                                      From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                                      Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                                      To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                       

                                      Hi Barbara

                                      Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                                      Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                                      I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                                      All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                                      Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                                      Warm regards

                                      Lenarda

                                      Sydney Australia

                                      From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                      Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                       

                                      Dear group,

                                      Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                                      When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                                      Thanks,

                                      Barbara Scrivens

                                      Auckland

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                                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                                    • Barbara Scrivens
                                      Hi John and Rys, John, thanks for clarifying that. I think Rys, you may have hit on something when you talked about nationality. Yes, Ukrainians would have
                                      Message 19 of 28 , Apr 5 1:03 PM
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                                        Hi John and Rys,

                                         

                                        John, thanks for clarifying that. I  think Rys, you may have hit on something when you talked about nationality. Yes, Ukrainians would have considered themselves Ukrainians even though they were living in Poland, just as the Poles considered themselves Polish even though they were living under Russian, Prussian or Austro-Hungarian laws until 1918.

                                         

                                        But thinking oneself a nationality does not automatically assume the country you are living in is that nationality. Polish national thinking did not bring Poland back for 123 years. That happened under the Treaty of Versailles. And even then, the Bolsheviks and Ukrainians weren’t happy and the Poles had to carry on fighting with both. The so-called Miracle on the Vistula, also known as the 18th Decisive Battle of the World,  marked the basis for the new Polish republic and the Treaty of Riga. Those were the decided on and were legal boundaries. Thanks, John, for pointing out that important word, legal. And reminding me that Poland had no say on today’s boundaries.

                                         

                                        I don’t know whether I’m being particularly sensitive, but I get that way over the apparent common assumption that for the Poles to have won back in 1920, was a miracle instead of what I consider pretty canny military strategy from Pilsudski. I seldom hear the Battle of Britain being called a miracle, but if ever there was one, that was it. Thank you to the member who posted the link to the programme Bloody Foreigners, and reminding me. When the British win a battle by the skin of their teeth, it gets called the slimmest of margins, and they forget the help they had. When Poland wins a battle by the skin of their teeth and no help, it gets called a miracle.

                                         

                                        And so I will continue to be sceptical about descriptions of western Ukraine pre 1945. For me, it will remain legitimate Polish land and will have legitimate Polish spellings. It is the least I can do for the memory of my family.

                                         

                                        Kind regards

                                        Barbara Scrivens

                                        Auckland

                                         

                                         

                                        From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Halucha
                                        Sent: Friday, 6 April 2012 2:12 a.m.
                                        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi, Barbara.

                                        As I understand it, the part of Poland east of the Molotov-Ribbentrop line that was "annexed" by the Soviet Union under agreement with Hitler became a part of the USSR only in the eyes of Stalin, Hitler and their henchmen - just as the part of western Poland that was "annexed" by Nazi Germany in 1939 became a part of the Germany only in the eyes of that cabal. Those territories were properly regarded as occupied Poland by the rest of the world, including but not limited to Poland, Britain, France and the USA.

                                        It was not until August 1945 that the puppet government installed in Warsaw by Stalin ceded the Polish Kresy to the USSR, which distributed it among its provinces of Lithuanian, Belorussian and Ukrainian SSRs. As you say, Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine did not become sovereign countries independent of the USSR for another 45 years or so.

                                        The difference is that while the annexations of 1939 were not legal because they were under the agreement of Stalin and Hitler, the annexation of 1945 was "legal" under the agreement of Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt (and their successors). Of course, as we all know, in neither set of annexations was the Polish government even consulted less say party to the transfer of its lands and people.

                                        It seems to me that the kind of misrepresentation you describe was launched deliberately by apologists for Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt but has been used so frequently that today many writers blindly parrot what they have seen before and keep the illusion alive. One thing that they don't seem to realize is that by deeming the Polish lands "Soviet" retroactively to 1939, they are implicitly apologists for Hitler too.

                                        This kind of confused writing is often perpetrated by people who reject the German annexation of 1939 at the same time as they endorse the Soviet annexation of 1939. Some, to the extent that when they refer to Auschwitz in the German-annexed zone, they call it a "Polish death camp" and hide reference to Germany altogether.

                                        We can only hope that efforts like yours to set the language straight will someday succeed. Until then, many naive readers (and some educated professional historians) will remain under the misimpression that eastern Poland became part of the Soviet Union or Lithuania or Belarus or Ukraine in 1939.

                                        Anyone who appreciates the value of history should be careful not to dismiss this concern about language as some sort of minor semantics discussion. Back-dating the Soviet takeover to 1939 serves to let Churchill and Roosevelt off the hook for their collusion with Stalin at Teheran in 1943 and Yalta in 1944 to annex half of their ally against Nazi Germany, Poland. They try to hide their implicit endorsement of Hitler's annexations with another subtle slight of hand by using the outdated term "Curzon line" rather than the contemporaneous and accurate term, "Molotov-Ribbentrop line".

                                        Don't let them get away with it any more. Brava!

                                         

                                        John Halucha

                                        Sault Ste Marie, Canada

                                         


                                        From: Barbara Scrivens <scrivs@...>
                                        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 5:52:12 AM
                                        Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                         

                                         

                                        With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                                         All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                                        I am asking, why?

                                        As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                                        So, I have four sections of years –

                                        Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                        After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                        After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                                        After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                                        All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                                        Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                                        Barbara Scrivens

                                        Auckland

                                         

                                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4296 - Release Date: 04/05/12 07:06:00

                                      • Dan Ford
                                        In the fall of 1939, the Soviet Union held plebiscites in the northern and southern borderlands, and the people voted overwhelmingly (the Communists are very
                                        Message 20 of 28 , Apr 5 3:54 PM
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                                          In the fall of 1939, the Soviet Union held plebiscites in the northern
                                          and southern borderlands, and the people voted overwhelmingly (the
                                          Communists are very good at getting out the vote) to join the Soviet
                                          Union. The southern half was therefore joined to Ukraine (UkSSR) and the
                                          northern half to Belarus (call it what you will: Ruthenia, White Russia,
                                          SSRB).

                                          Interestingly, the commissar in Lwow was none other than Nikita Kruschev
                                          in an ill-fitting suit. There are newsreels of him, beaming and sweating
                                          in what I believe was a cinema, or perhaps the opera house.

                                          Anyhow, that was the legal basis under which eastern Poland became
                                          Western Ukraine and Western Belarus. Stalin insisted that that border be
                                          recognized at Tehran, and it was.

                                          Add in Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and a chunk of Finland, and Stalin
                                          thereby reconstituted the Russian Empire almost exactly as it had
                                          existed until the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1917. Compare that to
                                          Germany's fate, smashed flat and a good piece of it gobbled up by none
                                          other than Poland, its first conquest! Really, one has to admire
                                          Stalin's consistency. He accomplished what the Bolsheviks set out to do
                                          in 1920, and unlike them succeeded exactly.

                                          On 4/5/2012 5:52 AM, Barbara Scrivens wrote:
                                          >
                                          > All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted
                                          > diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some
                                          > translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.
                                          >
                                          > I am asking, why?
                                          >
                                        • ted sebestianski
                                          Hi Barb. Here are detail you asked for. Ted ... From: Barbara Scrivens To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: RE:
                                          Message 21 of 28 , Apr 5 6:54 PM
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                                          • 178 KB
                                          
                                          Hi Barb.
                                          Here are detail you asked for.
                                          Ted
                                           
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 3:25 PM
                                          Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                           

                                          Hi Ted,

                                          I’m not fluent by any means, but there is nothing like personal interest in a subject to get my Polish dictionaries out, and when I get really stuck, I have an angel who helps me. Unfortunately, your scan didn’t come through that well for me.

                                          Do you have more details about this book? The author, or the publisher?

                                          Many thanks,

                                          Barbara Scrivens

                                          Auckland

                                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ted sebestianski
                                          Sent: Friday, 6 April 2012 1:24 a.m.
                                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn [1 Attachment]

                                           

                                          [Attachment(s) from ted sebestianski included below]

                                          ?

                                          Hi Barbara.

                                          I only wish you can read polish...there is a book of two volume about  WOLYN..title 'WOLYNSKA EPOPEJA' and history start from 981.

                                          I scan just one page .....maybe you find somebody to translate for you.

                                          TED

                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:52 AM

                                          Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                           

                                          With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                                          All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                                          I am asking, why?

                                          As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                                          So, I have four sections of years –

                                          Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                          After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                          After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                                          After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                                          All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                                          Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                                          Barbara Scrivens

                                          Auckland

                                          (not the Basia from ?)

                                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                                          Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                           

                                          Hi Basia

                                          Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                                          To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                                          Warm regards

                                          Lenarda

                                          Sydney Australia

                                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                                          Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                           

                                          Hi Lenarda

                                          Thank you for clarification.

                                          I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                                          I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                                          Warm regards

                                          Basia Zielinska

                                          -- 

                                          Basia 

                                          From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                                          Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                                          To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                           

                                          Hi Barbara

                                          Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                                          Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                                          I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                                          All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                                          Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                                          Warm regards

                                          Lenarda

                                          Sydney Australia

                                          From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                          Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                                          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                           

                                          Dear group,

                                          Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                                          When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                                          Thanks,

                                          Barbara Scrivens

                                          Auckland

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                                        • John Halucha
                                          Your sense of humour and irony shine in this post, Dan. Nicely done! I probably would have been more obvious, using inverted commas around plebiscites and
                                          Message 22 of 28 , Apr 6 9:07 AM
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                                            Your sense of humour and irony shine in this post, Dan. Nicely done!
                                            I probably would have been more obvious, using inverted commas around "plebiscites" and "voted overwhelmingly" the way I do around "amnesty", but your intent came through loud and clear with the sarcastic, "(the Communists are very good at getting out the vote)". LOL!!!
                                            Perhaps you meant "legal basis" ironically, too. You are a well-read student of history and certainly are aware that no one but Stalin and Hitler considered the sham vote or the annexations legitimate. I like your implication that, with this as the foundation on which the takeover of the Kresy by the Soviets in 1945 was based, the entire episode is corrupt.
                                            I also agree with your implicit condemnation of Churchill and Roosevelt at Teheran for recognizing the Molotov-Ribbentrop "border" spawned by Hitler and Stalin.
                                            Of course, their "legitimization" did not take effect until 1945 so revisionist phrases such as "the Germans invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941" is a transparent effort to hide the Western Allies' role in the betrayal of Poland.
                                            One thing that I trust you also meant ironically is, "one has to admire Stalin's consistency". But saying something like that even as a joke is dangerously close to overstepping the line. It's also not funny when people say, "at least Hitler made the trains run on time." In both cases, these tyrants were guilty of so many murders, tortures and other atrocities that there is nothing at all to admire about them.
                                            Thanks for the thought-provoking post.

                                            John Halucha,
                                            Sault Ste Marie, Canada


                                            From: Dan Ford <cub06h@...>
                                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 6:54:03 PM
                                            Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                             
                                            In the fall of 1939, the Soviet Union held plebiscites in the northern
                                            and southern borderlands, and the people voted overwhelmingly (the
                                            Communists are very good at getting out the vote) to join the Soviet
                                            Union. The southern half was therefore joined to Ukraine (UkSSR) and the
                                            northern half to Belarus (call it what you will: Ruthenia, White Russia,
                                            SSRB).

                                            Interestingly, the commissar in Lwow was none other than Nikita Kruschev
                                            in an ill-fitting suit. There are newsreels of him, beaming and sweating
                                            in what I believe was a cinema, or perhaps the opera house.

                                            Anyhow, that was the legal basis under which eastern Poland became
                                            Western Ukraine and Western Belarus. Stalin insisted that that border be
                                            recognized at Tehran, and it was.

                                            Add in Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and a chunk of Finland, and Stalin
                                            thereby reconstituted the Russian Empire almost exactly as it had
                                            existed until the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1917. Compare that to
                                            Germany's fate, smashed flat and a good piece of it gobbled up by none
                                            other than Poland, its first conquest! Really, one has to admire
                                            Stalin's consistency. He accomplished what the Bolsheviks set out to do
                                            in 1920, and unlike them succeeded exactly.

                                          • Barbara Scrivens
                                            Hi Ted, Thank you. I will pursue it. Thank goodness for ISBN numbers! Kind regards - Barbara From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                            Message 23 of 28 , Apr 6 12:49 PM
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                                              Hi Ted,

                                               

                                              Thank you. I will pursue it. Thank goodness for ISBN numbers!

                                              Kind regards - Barbara

                                               

                                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ted sebestianski
                                              Sent: Friday, 6 April 2012 1:54 p.m.
                                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn [1 Attachment]

                                               

                                               

                                              [Attachment(s) from ted sebestianski included below]

                                              ?

                                              Hi Barb.

                                              Here are detail you asked for.

                                              Ted

                                               

                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                              Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 3:25 PM

                                              Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                               

                                               

                                              Hi Ted,

                                              I’m not fluent by any means, but there is nothing like personal interest in a subject to get my Polish dictionaries out, and when I get really stuck, I have an angel who helps me. Unfortunately, your scan didn’t come through that well for me.

                                              Do you have more details about this book? The author, or the publisher?

                                              Many thanks,

                                              Barbara Scrivens

                                              Auckland

                                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ted sebestianski
                                              Sent: Friday, 6 April 2012 1:24 a.m.
                                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn [1 Attachment]

                                               

                                              [Attachment(s) from ted sebestianski included below]

                                              ?

                                              Hi Barbara.

                                              I only wish you can read polish...there is a book of two volume about  WOLYN..title 'WOLYNSKA EPOPEJA' and history start from 981.

                                              I scan just one page .....maybe you find somebody to translate for you.

                                              TED

                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                              Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:52 AM

                                              Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                               

                                              With all due respect for our West Island residents, Australia has never, after only 20 years of existence, been invaded by an overwhelming enemy from the west, and 17 days later from the east. Neither has it been partitioned for 123 years by three superpowers. In all my reading of that none-time, the Poles within that area retained their Polishness. Not easily. They did not merely assume, through guerrilla or other tactics, their land was Poland again. That they had a country after WWI, was a miracle, that they still had to fight their eastern boundaries after the rest of the world had finished with WWI, was something over and above the call of duty, as far as I’m concerned. They ended up with a country with boundaries, within which was Wolyn, was thanks to the Treaty of Riga. Legitimate. I’m talking of boundaries.  

                                              All of a sudden, after 1939, Wolyn (please note that I have omitted diacritical marks, so that the name won’t be compromised by some translators) is suddenly Volynia or other such Ukrainian/Russian terms.

                                              I am asking, why?

                                              As far as I know, Ukraine did not exist (as much as Poland did not exist in the partition years) until it became part of the USSR after 1945. It gained independency in 1991.

                                              So, I have four sections of years –

                                              Before the Riga treaty, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                              After 1939, when Ukraine did not exist.

                                              After 1945, when it became a USSR state.

                                              After 1991, when it became an independent state/republic.

                                              All I am asking is why, when, Wolyn was still very much within Poland, even though it was in German or Soviet-occupied Poland, does it continue in historical essays, to be called Volynia etc before 1945. Yes, the Ukrainians and Soviets had, way before either of them had a right to, or had fought the good fight that people like my grandfather did in 1919-1920, decided on the fate of eastern borderlands. They were not the eastern borderlands of Poland, but western Ukraine. Question mark.

                                              Do we have to accept the eastern borderlands of Poland were gone so many years before the dotted line had even been made on that piece of paper in Yalta?  

                                              Barbara Scrivens

                                              Auckland

                                              (not the Basia from ?)

                                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenarda Szymczak
                                              Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:18 p.m.
                                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                               

                                              Hi Basia

                                              Its all good, assisting each other is why Kresy-Siberia exists.

                                              To other members, please do not forget to put which country you are from as we can get the names mixed up, as we now have many Basia/Barbara and Krystyna  etc. and the blokes know who they are, so do not forget to put name and country, when signing off.

                                              Warm regards

                                              Lenarda

                                              Sydney Australia

                                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Basia
                                              Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 1:07 PM
                                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                               

                                              Hi Lenarda

                                              Thank you for clarification.

                                              I am inundated with information which I suspect will take a while to take on board, consider and put together the gigsaw pieces.

                                              I am confident I will find what I am looking for

                                              Warm regards

                                              Basia Zielinska

                                              -- 

                                              Basia 

                                              From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
                                              Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:29:59 +1000
                                              To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                               

                                              Hi Barbara

                                              Here is a non historian version, Wolyn is the Polish word, Volhynia is the German word as both nationalities lived in the area and records are kept for both Polish and German.

                                              Kresy is a term which came about after WWII, a member more knowledgeable please correct me, if wrong and encompasses all Polish citizens  and others, in the area of the Eastern Borderlands, which is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine.

                                              I live in Australia and to give an example, Wolyn would be like NSW/New South Wales, depending on how the residents wish to name and record it and Kresy is like Australia.

                                              All three (3) terms are correct, as these are all  the one area and other research area of interest (same place different name) are ZSSR, PRUSSIA, ROSJA, RUSSIA, IMPERIAL RUSSIA.  These will bring up older records and those within the changing borders, depending where the village was located. AND NON SPECIFIC TO AREA, BUT ENCOMPASING ALL, IF YOU WRITE – NKVD/NKWD – THIS WILL ALSO BRING UP MUCH INFORMATION.

                                              Also, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was Poland in its Golden Age.

                                              Warm regards

                                              Lenarda

                                              Sydney Australia

                                              From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Scrivens
                                              Sent: Thursday, 05 April, 2012 5:28 AM
                                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                               

                                              Dear group,

                                              Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                                              When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland’s eastern boundary with Russia.

                                              Thanks,

                                              Barbara Scrivens

                                              Auckland

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                                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                                            • Zenon Kuzik
                                              Dear Barbara, Volhynia is the English name for the region known as Wolyn in Polish.  The German version is Wolhynien. The boundaries of Ukraine: a confusing
                                              Message 24 of 28 , Apr 10 4:29 AM
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                                                Dear Barbara,

                                                Volhynia is the English name for the region known as Wolyn in Polish.  The German version is Wolhynien.

                                                The boundaries of Ukraine: a confusing and long-winded topic.  If one accepts Kyivan (or Kievan) Rus' as the ancestral state of a large part of what is now called Ukraine, then the borders have changed very often down through the centuries.  Many (most?) Ukrainians living in Galicia and Volhynia from the early twentieth century regarded those areas as being Western Ukraine rather than Eastern Poland.

                                                I hope this brief explanation is of some assistance.

                                                Kind regards,

                                                Zenon Kuzik,

                                                Your neighbour south of Auckland


                                                From: Barbara Scrivens <scrivs@...>
                                                To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:27 AM
                                                Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                                 
                                                Dear group,
                                                 
                                                Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?
                                                 
                                                When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland's eastern boundary with Russia.
                                                 
                                                Thanks,
                                                Barbara Scrivens
                                                Auckland

                                              • Barbara Scrivens
                                                Hi Zenon, Thank you for that. You sparked a notion and made me go back to the current reading I am doing in trying to find out the background of the Ukrainian
                                                Message 25 of 28 , Apr 10 4:11 PM
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                                                  Hi Zenon,

                                                   

                                                  Thank you for that. You sparked a notion and made me go back to the current reading I am doing in trying to find out the background of the Ukrainian reason for thinking Wolyn was theirs. I have been ploughing through Davies’ God’s Playground. It has not been the easiest read.

                                                   

                                                  The first time I came across the term Western Ukraine was in the section on Galicia during the Austrian partition, just before WWI. Page 115. Ukrainians were apparently calling for the incorporation of Galicia into their proposed national state as the ‘Western Ukraine’, while the Poles called for its incorporation into an independent Poland as ‘Eastern Malopolska’.

                                                   

                                                  Between 1908 and 1913, there was a laissez faire Viceroy, Bobrzynski, who took over after a Ukrainian assassinated the previous one. Instead of demanding retribution, Bobrzynski figured it was a chance to reconcile warring nationalities in the area. Poles thought he had betrayed them. This was the time Pilsudski’s Legions came into the open. Bobrzynski retired, unable to make his tolerant outlook work. He apparently thought making like sufficiently tolerable, that rebellions and conspiracies would become superfluous. Page 116.

                                                   

                                                  From what I read, for the peasants, Galicia was the most tolerable of the partitions. In 1918, included lands west of the Bug and included Lwow, Stanislawow, Zamosc and Krakow. Tarnopol was by then ceded to the Russian Empire, as was West Galicia.

                                                   

                                                  You made me look back at the map of the Russian partition. There is Volhynia, bordering on Galicia and part of the Russian partition’s South-Western Land. Between Volhynia and Kiev is Little Russia. South of that is Podolia. Both Little Russia and Podolia are also part of South-Western Land. What was West Galicia, including Warsaw, Kielce and Lublin, was ceded to the Russian partition in 1874 and was then called Vistulaland.

                                                   

                                                  So, I can find a Volhynia but no Ukraine up to 1915.  

                                                   

                                                  I’m still looking for a map of Europe which shows Poland today, Poland before1939 and the three partitions, all in one. Separate maps are well and good, but do make it difficult to pinpoint the smaller towns.

                                                   

                                                  And now you have me investigating Kyivan Rus...

                                                   

                                                  Kind regards,

                                                  Barbara Scrivens

                                                  North of the Bombays, the ones not in India.

                                                   

                                                  From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zenon Kuzik
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012 11:29 p.m.
                                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Dear Barbara,

                                                   

                                                  Volhynia is the English name for the region known as Wolyn in Polish.  The German version is Wolhynien.

                                                   

                                                  The boundaries of Ukraine: a confusing and long-winded topic.  If one accepts Kyivan (or Kievan) Rus' as the ancestral state of a large part of what is now called Ukraine, then the borders have changed very often down through the centuries.  Many (most?) Ukrainians living in Galicia and Volhynia from the early twentieth century regarded those areas as being Western Ukraine rather than Eastern Poland.

                                                   

                                                  I hope this brief explanation is of some assistance.

                                                   

                                                  Kind regards,

                                                   

                                                  Zenon Kuzik,

                                                   

                                                  Your neighbour south of Auckland

                                                   


                                                  From: Barbara Scrivens <scrivs@...>
                                                  To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:27 AM
                                                  Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Wolyn

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Dear group,

                                                   

                                                  Is anyone able to give a brief explanation of the chronological order of the boundaries of Ukraine?

                                                   

                                                  When did Wolyn become Volhynia? I keep coming across what I consider Kresy Poles as living in western Ukraine during WWII. I also have a 1939 map showing Poland's eastern boundary with Russia.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks,

                                                  Barbara Scrivens

                                                  Auckland

                                                   

                                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                                                • atticusfinch1048
                                                  Hi Guys Just doing some research and need some help from the experts in the group as I am after the names of some of the forests that the Polish partisans used
                                                  Message 26 of 28 , Feb 19, 2013
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                                                    Hi Guys

                                                    Just doing some research and need some help from the experts in the group as I am after the names of some of the forests that the Polish partisans used and in particular which was the closest to the settlement of Poroda. Also those around Choromce.

                                                    I am now after the impossible a decent map of the area as those online are just rubbish and I am getting no perspective.

                                                    If members have any family stories that can be used to help build some background please drop me a line.

                                                    Paul - UK Manchester

                                                    Podolanski and Oborski
                                                    Skalat, Lwow, Krakow
                                                  • John Halucha
                                                    Paul - Have you seen this? http://wolyn.ovh.org/opisy/choromce-09.html John Halucha Sault Ste Marie, Canada ________________________________ From:
                                                    Message 27 of 28 , Feb 19, 2013
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                                                      Paul - Have you seen this?
                                                      http://wolyn.ovh.org/opisy/choromce-09.html

                                                      John Halucha
                                                      Sault Ste Marie, Canada


                                                      From: atticusfinch1048 <AtticusFinch1048@...>
                                                      To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:24:10 PM
                                                      Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Wolyn

                                                       
                                                      Hi Guys

                                                      Just doing some research and need some help from the experts in the group as I am after the names of some of the forests that the Polish partisans used and in particular which was the closest to the settlement of Poroda. Also those around Choromce.

                                                      I am now after the impossible a decent map of the area as those online are just rubbish and I am getting no perspective.

                                                      If members have any family stories that can be used to help build some background please drop me a line.

                                                      Paul - UK Manchester

                                                      Podolanski and Oborski
                                                      Skalat, Lwow, Krakow



                                                    • atticusfinch1048
                                                      Hi John Thanks for that and yes I have - what I am trying to find is a decent scale map so that I can get a better overview so that I can see the village
                                                      Message 28 of 28 , Feb 19, 2013
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                                                        Hi John
                                                         
                                                        Thanks for that and yes I have - what I am trying to find is a decent scale map so that I can get a better overview so that I can see the village clusters in relation to the forests etc. So then I can see where the Ak were fighting the UPA and the Germans.
                                                         
                                                        I am trying to get a picture of what things would have been like for the Poles and Jews in that area especially when you think how the UPA tended to operate coming at night rather like the NKVD. But saying that at Kysylyn they murdered the Poles as they went to church.
                                                         
                                                        Paul
                                                         
                                                        In a message dated 19/02/2013 19:29:13 GMT Standard Time, john.halucha@... writes:
                                                        http://wolyn.ovh.org/opisy/choromce-09.html
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