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Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

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  • Marcus Jemiola
    Dear Group, Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all and am proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an opinion that is shared
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1 2:49 PM
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      Dear Group,

       

      Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all and am proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an opinion that is shared wholesale with all the members.

       

      I have recently had a translation done of my father’s attestation / debriefing of his experiences in Siberia after the 10th February deportation (incidentally obtained through the Sikorsky Museum in London ). The translation is complete but there were a few terms that the translator was not able to put in English.

       

      The first was: LAGRY.

       

      The second are two words that appear in his testimony and I cannot be sure he spelt them correctly himself: “krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” (his hand writing was not clear, plus 60+ years in an archive…….)

       

      The third refers to the Polish unit possibly formed or was present in Tashkent or in the Middle East :   3 D.S.K.   2 B.S.K.

       

      Can anybody shed any light on any of these terms?

       

      The Sikorski Museum is an absolute Treasure house of documents and I can absolutely recommend any members to contact them to see what they have. I expected nothing and this attestation came up out of the blue.

       

      Finally, a credit to all that the “mud-slinging” has, I’m sure, now stopped: we are bigger than that and I’m sure we are all agreed on this. Our common relatives all went through enough at the hands of oppressors. We don’t need to do it to brethren!

       

      Respectfully,

       

       

      Marcus Jemiola

      Northampton

      England.  

       

    • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
      Marcus, From my 3 volume, each volume 1200 pages, (total of 3600 pages), dictionary by Iwo C. Pogonowski.. The Polish word “Lagier” means “Nazi
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1 3:54 PM
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        Marcus,

         

        From my 3 volume, each volume 1200 pages, (total of 3600 pages), dictionary by Iwo C. Pogonowski..  The Polish word “Lagier” means “Nazi Concentration Camp” in the dictionary. So “Lagry” means the plural of Lagier.

        However, in this case it means Soviet Concentration Camp.  The word for the Soviet Concentration camp I believe is Gulag.  So LAGRY= GULAGS

         

        The two words krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” are difficult as it may be misspelled form hand written to typed. I had the same problem with my anikiety too.  If you could send me a copy of the letter so I could see the context in which these words were incorporated it would help.

         

        ZBIGniew


        From: Marcus Jemiola [mailto:mfjemiola@...]
        Sent: Freitag, 1. April 2005 14:49
        To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

         

        Dear Group,

         

        Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all and am proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an opinion that is shared wholesale with all the members.

         

        I have recently had a translation done of my father’s attestation / debriefing of his experiences in Siberia after the 10th February deportation (incidentally obtained through the Sikorsky Museum in London ). The translation is complete but there were a few terms that the translator was not able to put in English.

         

        The first was: LAGRY.

         

        The second are two words that appear in his testimony and I cannot be sure he spelt them correctly himself: “krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” (his hand writing was not clear, plus 60+ years in an archive…….)

         

        The third refers to the Polish unit possibly formed or was present in Tashkent or in the Middle East :   3 D.S.K.   2 B.S.K.

         

        Can anybody shed any light on any of these terms?

         

        The Sikorski Museum is an absolute Treasure house of documents and I can absolutely recommend any members to contact them to see what they have. I expected nothing and this attestation came up out of the blue.

         

        Finally, a credit to all that the “mud-slinging” has, I’m sure, now stopped: we are bigger than that and I’m sure we are all agreed on this. Our common relatives all went through enough at the hands of oppressors. We don’t need to do it to brethren!

         

        Respectfully,

         

         

        Marcus Jemiola

        Northampton

        England.  


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      • Marcus Jemiola
        Dear Zbigniew, Thanks so much. I will do in private E-Mail over the weekend as I have to put it together for you. Best regards, Marcus. _____ From: Zbigniew
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1 4:02 PM
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          Dear Zbigniew,

           

          Thanks so much. I will do in private E-Mail over the weekend as I have to put it together for you.

           

          Best regards,

           

          Marcus.

           

           


          From: Zbigniew Bob Styrna [mailto:styrna@...]
          Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:54 AM
          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

           

          Marcus,

           

          From my 3 volume, each volume 1200 pages, (total of 3600 pages), dictionary by Iwo C. Pogonowski..  The Polish word “Lagier” means “Nazi Concentration Camp” in the dictionary. So “Lagry” means the plural of Lagier.

          However, in this case it means Soviet Concentration Camp.  The word for the Soviet Concentration camp I believe is Gulag.  So LAGRY= GULAGS

           

          The two words krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” are difficult as it may be misspelled form hand written to typed. I had the same problem with my anikiety too.  If you could send me a copy of the letter so I could see the context in which these words were incorporated it would help.

           

          ZBIGniew


          From: Marcus Jemiola [mailto:mfjemiola@...]
          Sent: Freitag, 1. April 2005 14:49
          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

           

          Dear Group,

           

          Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all and am proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an opinion that is shared wholesale with all the members.

           

          I have recently had a translation done of my father’s attestation / debriefing of his experiences in Siberia after the 10th February deportation (incidentally obtained through the Sikorsky Museum in London ). The translation is complete but there were a few terms that the translator was not able to put in English.

           

          The first was: LAGRY.

           

          The second are two words that appear in his testimony and I cannot be sure he spelt them correctly himself: “krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” (his hand writing was not clear, plus 60+ years in an archive…….)

           

          The third refers to the Polish unit possibly formed or was present in Tashkent or in the Middle East :   3 D.S.K.   2 B.S.K.

           

          Can anybody shed any light on any of these terms?

           

          The Sikorski Museum is an absolute Treasure house of documents and I can absolutely recommend any members to contact them to see what they have. I expected nothing and this attestation came up out of the blue.

           

          Finally, a credit to all that the “mud-slinging” has, I’m sure, now stopped: we are bigger than that and I’m sure we are all agreed on this. Our common relatives all went through enough at the hands of oppressors. We don’t need to do it to brethren!

           

          Respectfully,

           

           

          Marcus Jemiola

          Northampton

          England.  



          ****************************************************************************
          KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
          "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
          deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
          ****************************************************************************
          Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
          Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
          Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
          Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
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        • romed46
          -Markus, 3 DSK means 3-cia Diwizja Strzelcow Karpackich,and 2BSK means 2-gi Batalion Strzelcow Karpackich. Roman Skulski -- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com,
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1 7:47 PM
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            -Markus,
            3 DSK means 3-cia Diwizja Strzelcow Karpackich,and 2BSK means 2-gi
            Batalion Strzelcow Karpackich.

            Roman Skulski






            -- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Jemiola"
            <mfjemiola@s...> wrote:
            > Dear Group,
            >
            >
            >
            > Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all
            and am
            > proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an opinion that
            is shared
            > wholesale with all the members.
            >
            >
            >
            > I have recently had a translation done of my father's attestation /
            > debriefing of his experiences in Siberia after the 10th February
            deportation
            > (incidentally obtained through the Sikorsky Museum in London). The
            > translation is complete but there were a few terms that the
            translator was
            > not able to put in English.
            >
            >
            >
            > The first was: LAGRY.
            >
            >
            >
            > The second are two words that appear in his testimony and I cannot
            be sure
            > he spelt them correctly himself: "krzymiazali" and "liwtiwrar" (his
            hand
            > writing was not clear, plus 60+ years in an archive...)
            >
            >
            >
            > The third refers to the Polish unit possibly formed or was present
            in
            > Tashkent or in the Middle East: 3 D.S.K. 2 B.S.K.
            >
            >
            >
            > Can anybody shed any light on any of these terms?
            >
            >
            >
            > The Sikorski Museum is an absolute Treasure house of documents and
            I can
            > absolutely recommend any members to contact them to see what they
            have. I
            > expected nothing and this attestation came up out of the blue.
            >
            >
            >
            > Finally, a credit to all that the "mud-slinging" has, I'm sure, now
            stopped:
            > we are bigger than that and I'm sure we are all agreed on this. Our
            common
            > relatives all went through enough at the hands of oppressors. We
            don't need
            > to do it to brethren!
            >
            >
            >
            > Respectfully,
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Marcus Jemiola
            >
            > Northampton
            >
            > England.
          • Alicja
            My father worked in coal mines in Ural mountains( Svedrovolsk) refered to them as LAGRY-- Alicja ... From: Zbigniew Bob Styrna To:
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 2 7:20 AM
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              My father worked in coal mines in Ural mountains( Svedrovolsk) refered to them as LAGRY-- Alicja
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:54 PM
              Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

              Marcus,

               

              From my 3 volume, each volume 1200 pages, (total of 3600 pages), dictionary by Iwo C. Pogonowski..  The Polish word “Lagier” means “Nazi Concentration Camp” in the dictionary. So “Lagry” means the plural of Lagier.

              However, in this case it means Soviet Concentration Camp.  The word for the Soviet Concentration camp I believe is Gulag.  So LAGRY= GULAGS

               

              The two words krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” are difficult as it may be misspelled form hand written to typed. I had the same problem with my anikiety too.  If you could send me a copy of the letter so I could see the context in which these words were incorporated it would help.

               

              ZBIGniew


              From: Marcus Jemiola [mailto:mfjemiola@...]
              Sent: Freitag, 1. April 2005 14:49
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

               

              Dear Group,

               

              Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all and am proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an opinion that is shared wholesale with all the members.

               

              I have recently had a translation done of my father’s attestation / debriefing of his experiences in Siberia after the 10th February deportation (incidentally obtained through the Sikorsky Museum in London ). The translation is complete but there were a few terms that the translator was not able to put in English.

               

              The first was: LAGRY.

               

              The second are two words that appear in his testimony and I cannot be sure he spelt them correctly himself: “krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” (his hand writing was not clear, plus 60+ years in an archive…….)

               

              The third refers to the Polish unit possibly formed or was present in Tashkent or in the Middle East :   3 D.S.K.   2 B.S.K.

               

              Can anybody shed any light on any of these terms?

               

              The Sikorski Museum is an absolute Treasure house of documents and I can absolutely recommend any members to contact them to see what they have. I expected nothing and this attestation came up out of the blue.

               

              Finally, a credit to all that the “mud-slinging” has, I’m sure, now stopped: we are bigger than that and I’m sure we are all agreed on this. Our common relatives all went through enough at the hands of oppressors. We don’t need to do it to brethren!

               

              Respectfully,

               

               

              Marcus Jemiola

              Northampton

              England.  



              ****************************************************************************
              KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
              "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
              deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
              ****************************************************************************
              Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
              Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
              Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
              Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
              ****************************************************************************
              To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
              saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
              Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
              ****************************************************************************



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              Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.0 - Release Date: 31.03.2005


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              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.0 - Release Date: 31.03.2005


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            • rlipinsk@gmu.edu
              Hi Zbigniew, The word GULAG is abbreviation of the first letters of the following: Gosudarstwiennoje Upravlennie Lagerej - State Administration of Camps.
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 3 7:55 PM
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                Hi Zbigniew,
                The word GULAG is abbreviation of the first letters of the following: "Gosudarstwiennoje Upravlennie Lagerej" - State Administration of Camps.
                Romuald



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Alicja <alicjae2@...>
                Date: Saturday, April 2, 2005 10:20 am
                Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East

                > My father worked in coal mines in Ural mountains( Svedrovolsk)
                > refered to them as LAGRY-- Alicja
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:54 PM
                > Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in
                > Tashkent(?) and the Middle East
                >
                >
                > Marcus,
                >
                >
                >
                > From my 3 volume, each volume 1200 pages, (total of 3600 pages),
                > dictionary by Iwo C. Pogonowski.. The Polish word “Lagier” means
                > “Nazi Concentration Camp” in the dictionary. So “Lagry” means the
                > plural of Lagier.
                >
                > However, in this case it means Soviet Concentration Camp. The
                > word for the Soviet Concentration camp I believe is Gulag. So
                > LAGRY= GULAGS
                >
                >
                >
                > The two words krzymiazali” and “liwtiwrar” are difficult as it
                > may be misspelled form hand written to typed. I had the same
                > problem with my anikiety too. If you could send me a copy of the
                > letter so I could see the context in which these words were
                > incorporated it would help.
                >
                >
                >
                > ZBIGniew
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                > -----------
                >
                > From: Marcus Jemiola [mfjemiola@...]
                > Sent: Freitag, 1. April 2005 14:49
                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?)
                > and the Middle East
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Group,
                >
                >
                >
                > Although a back seat member, I have learned so much from you all
                > and am proud to be part of this group. I am sure this is an
                > opinion that is shared wholesale with all the members.
                >
                >
                >
                > I have recently had a translation done of my father’s
                > attestation / debriefing of his experiences in Siberia after the
                > 10th February deportation (incidentally obtained through the
                > Sikorsky Museum in London). The translation is complete but there
                > were a few terms that the translator was not able to put in English.
                >
                >
                >
                > The first was: LAGRY.
                >
                >
                >
                > The second are two words that appear in his testimony and I
                > cannot be sure he spelt them correctly himself: “krzymiazali” and
                > “liwtiwrar” (his hand writing was not clear, plus 60+ years in an
                > archive…….)
                >
                >
                > The third refers to the Polish unit possibly formed or was
                > present in Tashkent or in the Middle East: 3 D.S.K. 2 B.S.K.
                >
                >
                >
                > Can anybody shed any light on any of these terms?
                >
                >
                >
                > The Sikorski Museum is an absolute Treasure house of documents
                > and I can absolutely recommend any members to contact them to see
                > what they have. I expected nothing and this attestation came up
                > out of the blue.
                >
                >
                >
                > Finally, a credit to all that the “mud-slinging” has, I’m sure,
                > now stopped: we are bigger than that and I’m sure we are all
                > agreed on this. Our common relatives all went through enough at
                > the hands of oppressors. We don’t need to do it to brethren!
                >
                >
                >
                > Respectfully,
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Marcus Jemiola
                >
                > Northampton
                >
                > England.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > **************************************************************************** KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
                > "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the
                > Polish citizens
                > deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World
                > War Two."
                >
                > **************************************************************************** Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
                > Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
                > Gallery (photos, documents) :
                > http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/ Film and info :
                > http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
                > ****************************************************************************
                > To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
                > saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
                > Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > ****************************************************************************
                >
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                > -----------
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                >
              • Sister Christine
                Marcus, I asked a few Polish woman here about the words. If you have them in context of the sentence it would be easier to figure out the meaning . LAGRY is
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 5 5:12 AM
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                  Marcus,
                  I asked a few Polish woman here about the words.  If you have them in context of the sentence it would be easier to figure out the meaning .  LAGRY is the term for people who were compelled or forced to work (like slaves).  Kryzymaizali could be someone's name as well as Liwtiwrar.  D.S.K. and 2 B.S.K. could be an organization, but not sure what kind.  These words in the sentence would help to decipher and translate.
                  Hope this is of some help!
                  Sr. Christine
                  Ct, U.S.A.


                  Do you Yahoo!?
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                • antoni530
                  ... in context of the sentence it would be easier to figure out the meaning . LAGRY is the term for people who were compelled or forced to work (like slaves).
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 5 7:57 AM
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                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Sister Christine
                    <sischris52@y...> wrote:
                    > Marcus,
                    > I asked a few Polish woman here about the words. If you have them
                    in context of the sentence it would be easier to figure out the
                    meaning . LAGRY is the term for people who were compelled or forced
                    to work (like slaves). Kryzymaizali could be someone's name as well
                    as Liwtiwrar. D.S.K. and 2 B.S.K. could be an organization, but not
                    sure what kind. These words in the sentence would help to decipher
                    and translate.
                    > Hope this is of some help!
                    > Sr. Christine
                    > Ct, U.S.A.


                    Sr. Christine,
                    I believe there is a missinterpretation of the word 'Lagry'.
                    It is simply a Russian name for a 'Camp'-nothing else.
                    It might be a holiday camp,an educational camp or scouting or
                    any leisure camp in a collective sense.
                    In order to give credence to the meaning of it, this word must
                    have an adjective describing it; to mean the kind of camp.
                    To Poles it became to mean agreat deal more and therefore we must
                    link this with an added qulification.

                    DSK- Diwizja Strzelcow Karpackich
                    BSK- Batalion Strzelcow Karpackich
                    All as explained earlier- formed part of the Second Polish Corpse
                    and part of the Mongommery's Army in the Middle East.
                    They -as recorded- took Monte Cassino Hill and hoisted Polish flag
                    on the Monastery on 18th May.
                    I hope this will help.
                    antoni530
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Make Yahoo! your home page
                  • Ralph Apel
                    There is a good chance that the S K satnds for Stuzba Kobiet on 5/4/05 13:12, Sister Christine at sischris52@yahoo.com wrote: Marcus, I asked a few Polish
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 5 2:49 PM
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                      Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish brigades present in Tashkent(?) and the Middle East There is a good chance that the S K satnds for Stuzba Kobiet






                      on 5/4/05 13:12, Sister Christine at sischris52@... wrote:

                      Marcus,
                      I asked a few Polish woman here about the words.  If you have them in context of the sentence it would be easier to figure out the meaning .  LAGRY is the term for people who were compelled or forced to work (like slaves).  Kryzymaizali could be someone's name as well as Liwtiwrar.  D.S.K. and 2 B.S.K. could be an organization, but not sure what kind.  These words in the sentence would help to decipher and translate.
                      Hope this is of some help!
                      Sr. Christine
                      Ct, U.S.A.




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                      ****************************************************************************
                      KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
                      "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
                      deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
                      ****************************************************************************
                      Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
                      Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
                      Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
                      Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
                      ****************************************************************************
                      To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
                      saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
                      Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
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