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Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard

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  • Yuri Okolita
    Hi Zbigniew, ZBS I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father s brother ZBS to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia) Please note
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 3, 2005
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      Hi Zbigniew,

      ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's brother
      ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia)

      Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov (now
      Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.

      ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?

      TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
      Artel Promkombinat
      Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz

      FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
      Polish Post #38.504


      Notes:
      1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
      2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and one
      stamp "seen by war censor"
      3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
      4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
      records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
      spelling.
      5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an industry
      unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who was
      building something or a large "lager".

      If you have more questions, I'll try to help.

      --
      Best regards,
      Yuri
    • Wladyslaw Kordas
      Zbyszek, try this website: http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/slownik.htm which explains this website: http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html which indicates
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 3, 2005
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        Zbyszek,
        try this website:
        http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/slownik.htm
        which explains this website:
        http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html
        which indicates how relatively common "Ko³odziej" (26054) is.
        (Be sure to use Polish characters in spelling!)
        "Ko³odziej" is indeed "wheelwright, wheeler or cartwright,"
        but "Kowal" is "smith, blacksmith, hammerman, farrier, forger or
        iron-smith," hence "Kowalski" (131940) is about as common as "Smith"
        in English. ["miech (kowalski)" = "bellows" and "m³ot kowalski"
        = "sledge hammer"]

        Cheers and pozdrawiam

        Wladyslaw ("Bill") Kordas, NH, USA
      • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
        Thanks for the help Wùadysùaw. I already knew that Koùodziej is an extremely common surname in Poland and in USA. Ha, ha , 26,000 in Poland is quite the
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 3, 2005
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          Thanks for the help Władysław.

          I already knew that Kołodziej is an extremely common surname in Poland and
          in USA. Ha, ha , 26,000 in Poland is quite the number. Long ago I did a
          USA search and there was about 15,000 in the White Pages. Ha, ha but my
          surname is a little less common luckily.

          I was more interested in information about the AD c. 850 Prince Piast
          Kołodziej Dynasty . If there is a more detailed Book on it possibly. I'm
          interested in Polish History/roots, etc..

          And I have used the two web sites you mentioned. They are extremely useful
          as I found. I love the origins of some of our Polish names don't you?


          Pozdrawiam.

          Zbyszek


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Wladyslaw Kordas [mailto:wkordas1@...]
          Sent: January 3, 2005 3:20 PM
          To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: help with Kolodziej surname



          Zbyszek,
          try this website:
          http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/slownik.htm
          which explains this website:
          http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html
          which indicates how relatively common "Ko³odziej" (26054) is.
          (Be sure to use Polish characters in spelling!)
          "Ko³odziej" is indeed "wheelwright, wheeler or cartwright,"
          but "Kowal" is "smith, blacksmith, hammerman, farrier, forger or
          iron-smith," hence "Kowalski" (131940) is about as common as "Smith"
          in English. ["miech (kowalski)" = "bellows" and "m³ot kowalski"
          = "sledge hammer"]

          Cheers and pozdrawiam

          Wladyslaw ("Bill") Kordas, NH, USA
        • Yuri Okolita
          Zbigniew, Sorry, there is a mistake in my previous message. YO Polish Post #.. should be read as Field post #.. or Mobile post #.. This term was always
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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            Zbigniew,

            Sorry, there is a mistake in my previous message.

            YO> Polish Post #..
            should be read as "Field post #.." or "Mobile post #.."
            This term was always used for designating military units.


            --
            Best regards,
            Yuri mailto:okolita@...
          • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
            Wow, That was great Yuri. I sure appreciate your detailed translation. Now I know what/where my grandparents, that I never met, were and were doing. I know my
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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              Wow,

              That was great Yuri. I sure appreciate your detailed translation. Now I know
              what/where my grandparents, that I never met, were and were doing. I know
              my mother's family were near the same Kudymkar and they worked in the forest
              west of Kudymkar at some places named Verkhnyiye Nozhi and Vizyay.

              2 of 4 of my grandparents died and were buried there somewhere.

              Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My grandfather was named Jozef and one
              son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a German
              Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.

              The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes somehow his
              last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate states this
              crazy name error.

              What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?

              All the best

              Zbyszek



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@...]
              Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
              Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard


              Hi Zbigniew,

              ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's brother
              ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia)

              Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov (now
              Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.

              ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?

              TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
              Artel Promkombinat
              Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz

              FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
              Polish Post #38.504


              Notes:
              1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
              2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and one
              stamp "seen by war censor"
              3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
              4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
              records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
              spelling.
              5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an industry
              unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who was
              building something or a large "lager".

              If you have more questions, I'll try to help.

              --
              Best regards,
              Yuri
            • Eve
              Zbyszek - In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father s first name, then they add the--isn t it -vich in transliterated Russian Cyrillic? So this
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                Zbyszek -

                In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                Cyrillic? So this is what that means. I would be Yeva, which is
                trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich? Yeva
                Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or Andrew
                in English. I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                picture.

                Ewa

                --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                <styrna@t...> wrote:
                > Wow,
                >
                > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My
                grandfather was named Jozef and one
                > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                German
                > Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.
                >
                > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                somehow his
                > last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate
                states this
                > crazy name error.
                >
                > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?
                >
                > All the best
                >
                > Zbyszek
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@p...]
                > Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                > Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard
                >
                >
                > Hi Zbigniew,
                >
                > ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's brother
                > ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia)
                >
                > Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov
                (now
                > Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.
                >
                > ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?
                >
                > TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
                > Artel Promkombinat
                > Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz
                >
                > FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
                > Polish Post #38.504
                >
                >
                > Notes:
                > 1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
                > 2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and one
                > stamp "seen by war censor"
                > 3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
                > 4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
                > records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
                > spelling.
                > 5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an
                industry
                > unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who was
                > building something or a large "lager".
                >
                > If you have more questions, I'll try to help.
                >
                > --
                > Best regards,
                > Yuri
              • Eve
                Corrections - Yuri Andreyvich, I think. It s pretty good actually. Possible to find an unknown grandfather s first name with this, and I suppose would help
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                  Corrections - Yuri Andreyvich, I think. It's pretty good actually.
                  Possible to find an unknown grandfather's first name with this, and I
                  suppose would help with differentiating people with common surnames.

                  --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Eve" <Eve5J@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Zbyszek -
                  >
                  > In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                  > name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                  > Cyrillic? So this is what that means. I would be Yeva, which is
                  > trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich? Yeva
                  > Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                  > all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or
                  Andrew
                  > in English. I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                  > picture.
                  >
                  > Ewa
                  >
                  > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                  > <styrna@t...> wrote:
                  > > Wow,
                  > >
                  > > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My
                  > grandfather was named Jozef and one
                  > > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                  > German
                  > > Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.
                  > >
                  > > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                  > somehow his
                  > > last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate
                  > states this
                  > > crazy name error.
                  > >
                  > > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?
                • Sergiusz Korycki
                  Hi, Ewa and Zbyszek. ... Adamovich? Yeva Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Eve daughter of Adam in Russian transliteration is Eva Adamovna . -ovna
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                    Hi, Ewa and Zbyszek.

                    >>I would be Yeva, which is trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then
                    Adamovich? Yeva Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.

                    Eve daughter of Adam in Russian transliteration is "Eva Adamovna".

                    "-ovna" = daughter

                    "-ovich" = son

                    "Ju." it's abbreviate "Juzefowicz" ("Juzefovich")

                    Regards,

                    Sergiusz.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:18 PM
                    To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard




                    Zbyszek -

                    In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                    name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                    Cyrillic? So this is what that means. I would be Yeva, which is
                    trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich? Yeva
                    Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                    all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or Andrew
                    in English. I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                    picture.

                    Ewa

                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                    <styrna@t...> wrote:
                    > Wow,
                    >
                    > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My
                    grandfather was named Jozef and one
                    > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                    German
                    > Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.
                    >
                    > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                    somehow his
                    > last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate
                    states this
                    > crazy name error.
                    >
                    > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?
                    >
                    > All the best
                    >
                    > Zbyszek
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@p...]
                    > Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
                    > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                    > Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                    > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Zbigniew,
                    >
                    > ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's brother
                    > ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia)
                    >
                    > Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov
                    (now
                    > Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.
                    >
                    > ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?
                    >
                    > TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
                    > Artel Promkombinat
                    > Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz
                    >
                    > FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
                    > Polish Post #38.504
                    >
                    >
                    > Notes:
                    > 1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
                    > 2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and one
                    > stamp "seen by war censor"
                    > 3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
                    > 4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
                    > records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
                    > spelling.
                    > 5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an
                    industry
                    > unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who was
                    > building something or a large "lager".
                    >
                    > If you have more questions, I'll try to help.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Best regards,
                    > Yuri





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                    KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
                    "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
                    deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
                    ****************************************************************************
                    Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
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                  • Eve
                    Sergiusz: Yes, I forgot that. In Polish, there are similar endings for female surnames, but this is on the archaic side: -owa, a married woman - Jankowiczowa
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                      Sergiusz:

                      Yes, I forgot that. In Polish, there are similar endings for female
                      surnames, but this is on the archaic side:

                      -owa, a married woman - Jankowiczowa
                      -owna, an unmarried girl or rather a woman, I think.
                      -czyna, a girl, I think, but that's really archaic, and there's
                      another one too, but I can't think of it right now.

                      Unfortunately many a female surname has been mangled by these endings
                      too. Sometimes it's difficult to know the root surname.

                      Regards,
                      Ewa

                      --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Sergiusz Korycki" <porKo@r...>
                      wrote:
                      > Hi, Ewa and Zbyszek.
                      >
                      > >>I would be Yeva, which is trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve,
                      then
                      > Adamovich? Yeva Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.
                      >
                      > Eve daughter of Adam in Russian transliteration is "Eva Adamovna".
                      >
                      > "-ovna" = daughter
                      >
                      > "-ovich" = son
                      >
                      > "Ju." it's abbreviate "Juzefowicz" ("Juzefovich")
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Sergiusz.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@a...]
                      > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:18 PM
                      > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Zbyszek -
                      >
                      > In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                      > name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                      > Cyrillic? So this is what that means. I would be Yeva, which is
                      > trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich? Yeva
                      > Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                      > all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or
                      Andrew
                      > in English. I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                      > picture.
                      >
                      > Ewa
                      >
                      > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                      > <styrna@t...> wrote:
                      > > Wow,
                      > >
                      > > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My
                      > grandfather was named Jozef and one
                      > > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                      > German
                      > > Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.
                      > >
                      > > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                      > somehow his
                      > > last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate
                      > states this
                      > > crazy name error.
                      > >
                      > > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?
                      > >
                      > > All the best
                      > >
                      > > Zbyszek
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@p...]
                      > > Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
                      > > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                      > > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi Zbigniew,
                      > >
                      > > ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's
                      brother
                      > > ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia)
                      > >
                      > > Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov
                      > (now
                      > > Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.
                      > >
                      > > ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?
                      > >
                      > > TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
                      > > Artel Promkombinat
                      > > Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz
                      > >
                      > > FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
                      > > Polish Post #38.504
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Notes:
                      > > 1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
                      > > 2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and
                      one
                      > > stamp "seen by war censor"
                      > > 3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
                      > > 4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
                      > > records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
                      > > spelling.
                      > > 5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an
                      > industry
                      > > unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who
                      was
                      > > building something or a large "lager".
                      > >
                      > > If you have more questions, I'll try to help.
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Best regards,
                      > > Yuri
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      **********************************************************************
                      ******
                      > KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
                      > "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
                      citizens
                      > deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War
                      Two."
                      >
                      **********************************************************************
                      ******
                      > Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
                      > Gallery (photos, documents) :
                      http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
                      > Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
                      >
                      **********************************************************************
                      ******
                      > To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
                      > saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
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                      >
                      **********************************************************************
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                    • Yuri Okolita
                      Hi Zbigniew, The territory around Urals is still well-known for lagers until now, because a lot of industry was building there during that time, and SU needed
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                        Hi Zbigniew,

                        The territory around Urals is still well-known for lagers until now,
                        because a lot of industry was building there during that time, and
                        SU needed a cheap labour power. I've been to these places (about 200
                        km West from Perm') for two years and I must say the conditions there
                        are not friendly for open-air work and even just for living.

                        ZBS> Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My grandfather was named
                        ZBS> Jozef and one son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son
                        ZBS> Jozef was in a German Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very
                        ZBS> confusing for me.
                        ZBS> What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?

                        1. I am sure that this postcard is addressed from Stanislaw Ju. Sterna
                        to Juzef Juzefowicz Styrna.
                        2. Concerning changes Juzef-Josef - it's a usual adoption of names for
                        English world.
                        3. I think Russians wrote the names as their owners have pronounced
                        them, so it seems like your ancestors had names Juzef rather than
                        Josef. Note also that this name is pronounced originally as "Yuzef"
                        (not like "Dzhuzef" in the English way).
                        4. Concerning Auswitz - couldn't Jozef be caught by Germans later than
                        the date of the card - 1943?
                        5. The second name stated as "Ju." (or "Yu.") means that his father's
                        name started from this letter. It could be Juzef or Juliusz, etc.

                        --
                        Best regards,
                        Yuri
                      • moffattm@westman.wave.ca
                        ... I am searching for a TRACY TILLEY from Denver (and area) Colorado. If anyone has access to phone book, please post address and phone number either to
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                          >
                          I am searching for a TRACY TILLEY from Denver (and area) Colorado. If
                          anyone has access to phone book, please post address and phone number
                          either to group or privately

                          Michelle MOffatt moffattm@...
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          > **********************************************************************
                          > ******
                          >> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
                          >> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
                          > citizens
                          >> deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War
                          > Two."
                          >>
                          > **********************************************************************
                          > ******
                          >> Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
                          >> Gallery (photos, documents) :
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                        • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                          Eve, Thank you for your wonderful explanation. But it is still odd to me because My uncle mentions all the family members in his postcard (reverse side), but
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                            Eve,

                            Thank you for your wonderful explanation. But it is still odd to me because
                            My uncle mentions all the family members in his postcard (reverse side), but
                            not this Jozefovich. It is only mentioned in the address side.

                            In addition his brother Jozefovich was supposedly in German Auswitz III
                            sub-camp during war.

                            So I will have to ponder this for a while jet. This Jozefovich is still
                            alive but is unable to talk unfortunately.

                            Pozdr5awiam

                            Zbyszek

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@...]
                            Sent: January 4, 2005 10:31 AM
                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard



                            Corrections - Yuri Andreyvich, I think. It's pretty good actually.
                            Possible to find an unknown grandfather's first name with this, and I
                            suppose would help with differentiating people with common surnames.

                            --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Eve" <Eve5J@a...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Zbyszek -
                            >
                            > In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                            > name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                            > Cyrillic? So this is what that means. I would be Yeva, which is
                            > trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich? Yeva
                            > Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                            > all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or
                            Andrew
                            > in English. I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                            > picture.
                            >
                            > Ewa
                            >
                            > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                            > <styrna@t...> wrote:
                            > > Wow,
                            > >
                            > > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My
                            > grandfather was named Jozef and one
                            > > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                            > German
                            > > Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.
                            > >
                            > > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                            > somehow his
                            > > last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate
                            > states this
                            > > crazy name error.
                            > >
                            > > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?






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                          • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                            Sergius,Eve, Yuri and everyone else, Thank you so much for all the great help with this little ole postcard. I m learning so much from this wonderful group.
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                              Sergius,Eve, Yuri and everyone else,

                              Thank you so much for all the great help with this little 'ole postcard. I'm
                              learning so much from this wonderful group.


                              Polish language has similar endings for surnames, not English, so I
                              understand the concept.

                              This is interesting detective work no?

                              All the best

                              Zbyszek

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Sergiusz Korycki [mailto:porKo@...]
                              Sent: January 4, 2005 10:43 AM
                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard


                              Hi, Ewa and Zbyszek.

                              >>I would be Yeva, which is trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then
                              Adamovich? Yeva Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.

                              Eve daughter of Adam in Russian transliteration is "Eva Adamovna".

                              "-ovna" = daughter

                              "-ovich" = son

                              "Ju." it's abbreviate "Juzefowicz" ("Juzefovich")

                              Regards,

                              Sergiusz.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@...]
                              Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:18 PM
                              To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard




                              Zbyszek -

                              In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                              name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                              Cyrillic? So this is what that means. I would be Yeva, which is
                              trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich? Yeva
                              Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam. Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                              all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or Andrew
                              in English. I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                              picture.

                              Ewa

                              --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                              <styrna@t...> wrote:
                              > Wow,
                              >
                              > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My
                              grandfather was named Jozef and one
                              > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                              German
                              > Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very confusing for me.
                              >
                              > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                              somehow his
                              > last name got changed to Sterna. His Russian death certificate
                              states this
                              > crazy name error.
                              >
                              > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?
                              >
                              > All the best
                              >
                              > Zbyszek
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@p...]
                              > Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
                              > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                              > Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                              > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Zbigniew,
                              >
                              > ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's brother
                              > ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast (Siberia)
                              >
                              > Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov
                              (now
                              > Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.
                              >
                              > ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?
                              >
                              > TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
                              > Artel Promkombinat
                              > Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz
                              >
                              > FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
                              > Polish Post #38.504
                              >
                              >
                              > Notes:
                              > 1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
                              > 2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and one
                              > stamp "seen by war censor"
                              > 3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
                              > 4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
                              > records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
                              > spelling.
                              > 5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an
                              industry
                              > unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who was
                              > building something or a large "lager".
                              >
                              > If you have more questions, I'll try to help.
                              >
                              > --
                              > Best regards,
                              > Yuri





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                            • Krystyna Styrna
                              Aha!!! I get it; Zbyszek Janka Styrnawego with love Krystyna Doli Styrnowej Eve wrote: Sergiusz: Yes, I forgot that. In Polish, there are
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                Aha!!!
                                I get it; Zbyszek Janka Styrnawego
                                 
                                with love
                                Krystyna Doli Styrnowej

                                Eve <Eve5J@...> wrote:

                                Sergiusz:

                                Yes, I forgot that.  In Polish, there are similar endings for female
                                surnames, but this is on the archaic side:

                                -owa, a married woman - Jankowiczowa
                                -owna, an unmarried girl or rather a woman, I think.
                                -czyna, a girl, I think, but that's really archaic, and there's
                                another one too, but I can't think of it right now.

                                Unfortunately many a female surname has been mangled by these endings
                                too. Sometimes it's difficult to know the root surname.

                                Regards,
                                Ewa

                                --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Sergiusz Korycki" <porKo@r...>
                                wrote:
                                > Hi, Ewa and Zbyszek.
                                >
                                > >>I would be Yeva, which is trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve,
                                then
                                > Adamovich?  Yeva Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.
                                >
                                > Eve daughter of Adam in Russian transliteration is "Eva Adamovna".
                                >
                                > "-ovna" = daughter
                                >
                                > "-ovich" = son
                                >
                                > "Ju." it's abbreviate "Juzefowicz" ("Juzefovich")
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                >
                                > Sergiusz.
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@a...]
                                > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:18 PM
                                > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Zbyszek -
                                >
                                > In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                                > name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                                > Cyrillic?  So this is what that means.  I would be Yeva, which is
                                > trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich?  Yeva
                                > Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.  Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                                > all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or
                                Andrew
                                > in English.  I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                                > picture.
                                >
                                > Ewa
                                >
                                > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                                > <styrna@t...> wrote:
                                > > Wow,
                                > >
                                > > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz?  My
                                > grandfather was named Jozef and one
                                > > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                                > German
                                > > Auswitz III during WWII.  So this is very confusing for me.
                                > >
                                > > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                                > somehow his
                                > > last name got changed to Sterna.  His Russian death certificate
                                > states this
                                > > crazy name error.
                                > >
                                > > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean?  What does the "Ju." Mean?
                                > >
                                > > All the best
                                > >
                                > > Zbyszek
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@p...]
                                > > Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
                                > > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                > > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi Zbigniew,
                                > >
                                > > ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's
                                brother
                                > > ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast  (Siberia)
                                > >
                                > > Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov
                                > (now
                                > > Perm'). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia.
                                > >
                                > > ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?
                                > >
                                > > TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
                                > > Artel Promkombinat
                                > > Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz
                                > >
                                > > FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
                                > > Polish Post #38.504
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Notes:
                                > > 1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
                                > > 2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and
                                one
                                > > stamp "seen by war censor"
                                > > 3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
                                > > 4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
                                > > records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
                                > > spelling.
                                > > 5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an
                                > industry
                                > > unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who
                                was
                                > > building something or a large "lager".
                                > >
                                > > If you have more questions, I'll try to help.
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > Best regards,
                                > >  Yuri
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                >  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
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                                >  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War
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                                Blessings
                                Krystyna
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 


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                              • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                Ah ha, Yuri, I think I get it now. This is so funny!!!! With all your great help, it all makes sense now. 1) Styrna Józef Józefowicz is my grandfather s name
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                  Ah ha, Yuri,

                                  I think I get it now. This is so funny!!!! With all your great help, it all
                                  makes sense now.

                                  1)
                                  Styrna Józef Józefowicz is my grandfather's name (Stanislaw's father). This
                                  must be some Russian or old Polish way of identifying the person. Not an
                                  English way. In English we write the Surname (last name) followed by given
                                  name(s), but never do we include the person's father's first name. It just
                                  dawned on me. You see there are three Józef Styrna people involved in this
                                  saga and that is why it is so confusing. The father Józef Styrna (he's in
                                  Kudymkar), his son Józef Styrna (he's in Auswitz III) and his father who was
                                  also Józef Styrna (dead). So I guess to identify the correct/AUTHENTIC
                                  "Jozef Styrna" , they added his father's (my great grandfather) name of
                                  Józefovicz at the end on this postcard's "KOMY".

                                  You see I thought the postcard was being addressed to TWO people.
                                  So in fact this Styrna Józef Jósefowicz was never in Auswitz, but his son
                                  Józef Styrna was.

                                  2)

                                  And that is why the postcard is from Sterna Stanislaw Ju. (Ju. = Jzefowicz).
                                  Ha, ha , you see Stanislaw's father is the Styrna Józef Józefowicz in
                                  Kudymkar.


                                  Wow, it all sounds like a mystery movie or a COMEDY. It sounds like that
                                  Abott and Costello comedy baseball skit "Who's on First ?

                                  3) We Poles also write words and names exactly like we pronounce them. That
                                  is why Józef is written like this because the letter "o" in Polish has an
                                  accent above it to make it sound like the letter "u".

                                  Hope I explained it all clearly so other's may benefit from this 'tradition'
                                  of writing people's names back then in those lands.

                                  Once again, all the best and thank you all so much.

                                  Zbyszek


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@...]
                                  Sent: January 4, 2005 12:17 PM
                                  To: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                  Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                  Subject: Re[2]: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard


                                  Hi Zbigniew,

                                  The territory around Urals is still well-known for lagers until now,
                                  because a lot of industry was building there during that time, and
                                  SU needed a cheap labour power. I've been to these places (about 200
                                  km West from Perm') for two years and I must say the conditions there
                                  are not friendly for open-air work and even just for living.

                                  ZBS> Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My grandfather was named
                                  ZBS> Jozef and one son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son
                                  ZBS> Jozef was in a German Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very
                                  ZBS> confusing for me.
                                  ZBS> What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?

                                  1. I am sure that this postcard is addressed from Stanislaw Ju. Sterna
                                  to Juzef Juzefowicz Styrna.
                                  2. Concerning changes Juzef-Josef - it's a usual adoption of names for
                                  English world.
                                  3. I think Russians wrote the names as their owners have pronounced
                                  them, so it seems like your ancestors had names Juzef rather than
                                  Josef. Note also that this name is pronounced originally as "Yuzef"
                                  (not like "Dzhuzef" in the English way).
                                  4. Concerning Auswitz - couldn't Jozef be caught by Germans later than
                                  the date of the card - 1943?
                                  5. The second name stated as "Ju." (or "Yu.") means that his father's
                                  name started from this letter. It could be Juzef or Juliusz, etc.

                                  --
                                  Best regards,
                                  Yuri
                                • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                  Ha, ha, close but not quite. I would be a Styrna Zbigniew Jankovicz ... _____ From: Krystyna Styrna [mailto:thymetrax@yahoo.com] Sent: January 4, 2005 1:56
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                    Ha, ha,  close but not quite.  I would be a Styrna Zbigniew Jankovicz

                                     

                                     

                                    J  right?

                                     


                                    From: Krystyna Styrna [mailto:thymetrax@...]
                                    Sent: January 4, 2005 1:56 PM
                                    To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard

                                     

                                    Aha!!!

                                    I get it; Zbyszek Janka Styrnawego

                                     

                                    with love

                                    Krystyna Doli Styrnowej

                                    Eve <Eve5J@...> wrote:


                                    Sergiusz:

                                    Yes, I forgot that.  In Polish, there are similar endings for female
                                    surnames, but this is on the archaic side:

                                    -owa, a married woman - Jankowiczowa
                                    -owna, an unmarried girl or rather a woman, I think.
                                    -czyna, a girl, I think, but that's really archaic, and there's
                                    another one too, but I can't think of it right now.

                                    Unfortunately many a female surname has been mangled by these endings
                                    too. Sometimes it's difficult to know the root surname.

                                    Regards,
                                    Ewa

                                    --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com , "Sergiusz Korycki" <porKo@r...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Hi, Ewa and Zbyszek.
                                    >
                                    > >>I would be Yeva, which is trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve,
                                    then
                                    > Adamovich?  Yeva Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.
                                    >
                                    > Eve daughter of Adam in Russian transliteration is "Eva Adamovna".
                                    >
                                    > "-ovna" = daughter
                                    >
                                    > "-ovich" = son
                                    >
                                    > "Ju." it's abbreviate "Juzefowicz" ("Juzefovich")
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Sergiusz.
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@a...]
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:18 PM
                                    > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Zbyszek -
                                    >
                                    > In Russia/USSR names are son or daughter of their father's first
                                    > name, then they add the--isn't it -vich in transliterated Russian
                                    > Cyrillic?  So this is what that means.  I would be Yeva, which is
                                    > trasliterated Russian Cyrillic for Eve, then Adamovich?  Yeva
                                    > Adamovich - meaning Eve daughter of Adam.  Remember Dr. Zhivago and
                                    > all the Russian novels, Yuri Andreivich--Yuri son of Andzej or
                                    Andrew
                                    > in English.  I probably spelled this ending wrong, but you get the
                                    > picture.
                                    >
                                    > Ewa
                                    >
                                    > --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com , "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                                    > <styrna@t...> wrote:
                                    > > Wow,
                                    > >
                                    > > That was great Yuri. > Are you sure about this Juzefowicz?  My
                                    > grandfather was named Jozef and one
                                    > > son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son Jozef was in a
                                    > German
                                    > > Auswitz III during WWII.  So this is very confusing for me.
                                    > >
                                    > > The person that wrote the post card was named Stanislaw, and yes
                                    > somehow his
                                    > > last name got changed to Sterna.  His Russian death certificate
                                    > states this
                                    > > crazy name error.
                                    > >
                                    > > What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean?  What does the "Ju." Mean?
                                    > >
                                    > > All the best
                                    > >
                                    > > Zbyszek
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@p...]
                                    > > Sent: January 3, 2005 3:19 PM
                                    > > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                    > > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Zbigniew,
                                    > >
                                    > > ZBS> I recently found an old, 1943 postcard from my father's
                                    brother
                                    > > ZBS> to his family in Kudymkar Molotovskaja Oblast  ( Siberia )
                                    > >
                                    > > Please note that Kudymkar is about 100 km NW from former Molotov
                                    > (now
                                    > > Perm '). It's not Siberia, it's European part of Russia .
                                    > >
                                    > > ZBS> Could someone please help me with the translation?
                                    > >
                                    > > TO: Molotov oblast, Kudymkar city
                                    > > Artel Promkombinat
                                    > > Styrna Juzef Juzefowicz
                                    > >
                                    > > FROM: Sterna Stanislaw Ju.
                                    > > Polish Post #38.504
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Notes:
                                    > > 1. Second name "Juzefowicz" means "son of Juzef"
                                    > > 2. There are two round post stamps with dates in the centers and
                                    one
                                    > > stamp "seen by war censor"
                                    > > 3. It's clear that the addresses are written by different persons.
                                    > > 4. Your surname is spelled in two ways. Maybe Stanislaw was in war
                                    > > records as Sterna, so a Russian that wrote the addressee used this
                                    > > spelling.
                                    > > 5. Artel Promkombinat is not a street, it's something like an
                                    > industry
                                    > > unit of unindentified size. It could be a group of 5-10 men who
                                    was
                                    > > building something or a large "lager".
                                    > >
                                    > > If you have more questions, I'll try to help.
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > Best regards,
                                    > >  Yuri
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    Blessings

                                    Krystyna

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     


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                                  • Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                    Juri, My mother has the same sentiments as you about working outdoors there. She was forced to chop trees all year round. The bugs must be extremely bad eh?
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                      Juri,

                                      My mother has the same sentiments as you about working outdoors there. She
                                      was forced to chop trees all year round. The bugs must be extremely bad eh?
                                      And very cold in winter ?

                                      What did you do there for 2 years ?

                                      I know it's not "Siberia" but her and everyone else there was told it was
                                      Siberia and it felt like Siberia I bet.

                                      All the best

                                      Zbyszek



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Yuri Okolita [mailto:okolita@...]
                                      Sent: January 4, 2005 12:17 PM
                                      To: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                      Cc: Zbigniew Bob Styrna
                                      Subject: Re[2]: [Kresy-Siberia] Help with Russian postcard



                                      Hi Zbigniew,

                                      The territory around Urals is still well-known for lagers until now,
                                      because a lot of industry was building there during that time, and
                                      SU needed a cheap labour power. I've been to these places (about 200
                                      km West from Perm') for two years and I must say the conditions there
                                      are not friendly for open-air work and even just for living.

                                      ZBS> Are you sure about this Juzefowicz? My grandfather was named
                                      ZBS> Jozef and one son was named Jozef also. But I thought the son
                                      ZBS> Jozef was in a German Auswitz III during WWII. So this is very
                                      ZBS> confusing for me.
                                      ZBS> What does that Stanislaw Ju. Mean? What does the "Ju." Mean?

                                      1. I am sure that this postcard is addressed from Stanislaw Ju. Sterna
                                      to Juzef Juzefowicz Styrna.
                                      2. Concerning changes Juzef-Josef - it's a usual adoption of names for
                                      English world.
                                      3. I think Russians wrote the names as their owners have pronounced
                                      them, so it seems like your ancestors had names Juzef rather than
                                      Josef. Note also that this name is pronounced originally as "Yuzef"
                                      (not like "Dzhuzef" in the English way).
                                      4. Concerning Auswitz - couldn't Jozef be caught by Germans later than
                                      the date of the card - 1943?
                                      5. The second name stated as "Ju." (or "Yu.") means that his father's
                                      name started from this letter. It could be Juzef or Juliusz, etc.

                                      --
                                      Best regards,
                                      Yuri



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                                    • Eve
                                      Nie. It would be Styrna Zbigniew Ivanovich. Jan is translated to Ivan in Russian. Interesting, isn t it? Since there s no Russian translation to Zbigniew
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                        Nie. It would be Styrna Zbigniew Ivanovich. Jan is translated to
                                        Ivan in Russian. Interesting, isn't it? Since there's no Russian
                                        translation to Zbigniew in my book, I don't know what would be done
                                        for your son, Zbyszek. LOL. These are called patronymics according to
                                        my book, "First Names of the Polish Commonwealth: Origins and
                                        Meanings," by William F. Hoffman and George W. Helon. (Is this you,
                                        Wieslaw? You never answered me when I asked you years ago.) This is
                                        a great book with all first names translated to every language, well,
                                        the ones that are needed in our research, and also has the Russian
                                        and Ukrainian Cyrillic spellings.

                                        But you know, Poland and other Eastern European countries always put
                                        surname first name on envelopes to this day.

                                        In speaking it would be for me: Eva Adamovich Jankowicz. My
                                        husband's surname is another patronymic name, meaning son of Jan in
                                        Polish, but actually the real name is Jankiewicz, which I seem to
                                        remember also means son of Jan.

                                        Yuri, are these forms still used in Russia today?

                                        Ewa

                                        --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                                        <styrna@t...> wrote:
                                        > Ha, ha, close but not quite. I would be a Styrna Zbigniew
                                        Jankovicz>

                                        >
                                        > :-) right?
                                        > _____
                                        >
                                        > From: Krystyna Styrna [mailto:thymetrax@y...]
                                        > Sent: January 4, 2005 1:56 PM
                                        > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard
                                        >
                                        > Aha!!!
                                        >
                                        > I get it; Zbyszek Janka Styrnawego
                                      • bdavoust2
                                        ... Hi group, As far as I know, the patronymics are still used in Russian. For both men and women, the second name is the father s name. Hence, Juzefowicz
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                          >
                                          > Yuri, are these forms still used in Russia today?
                                          >
                                          > Ewa
                                          >
                                          Hi group,
                                          As far as I know, the patronymics are still used in Russian. For both
                                          men and women, the second name is the father's name. Hence,
                                          Juzefowicz for Zbyszek and his sister. Opening any Russian novel
                                          translated into English will show you this. And occasionally when
                                          Putin, for example, is mentioned, they give his first name and patronymic.

                                          Barbara Davoust
                                        • Sergiusz Korycki
                                          I m not Yuri, but try answer :) Names in Russian not translated: Jan not Ivan. Styrna Zbighew Janovich; Jankowicz Eva Adamovna. Son of Zbignew - Zbignewovich.
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                            I'm not Yuri, but try answer :)

                                            Names in Russian not translated: Jan not Ivan.

                                            Styrna Zbighew Janovich;

                                            Jankowicz Eva Adamovna.

                                            Son of Zbignew - Zbignewovich.

                                            Jast add "-ovich" or "-ovna".

                                            Pozdrawiam,

                                            Sergiusz.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Eve [mailto:Eve5J@...]
                                            Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:37 AM
                                            To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard




                                            Nie. It would be Styrna Zbigniew Ivanovich. Jan is translated to
                                            Ivan in Russian. Interesting, isn't it? Since there's no Russian
                                            translation to Zbigniew in my book, I don't know what would be done
                                            for your son, Zbyszek. LOL. These are called patronymics according to
                                            my book, "First Names of the Polish Commonwealth: Origins and
                                            Meanings," by William F. Hoffman and George W. Helon. (Is this you,
                                            Wieslaw? You never answered me when I asked you years ago.) This is
                                            a great book with all first names translated to every language, well,
                                            the ones that are needed in our research, and also has the Russian
                                            and Ukrainian Cyrillic spellings.

                                            But you know, Poland and other Eastern European countries always put
                                            surname first name on envelopes to this day.

                                            In speaking it would be for me: Eva Adamovich Jankowicz. My
                                            husband's surname is another patronymic name, meaning son of Jan in
                                            Polish, but actually the real name is Jankiewicz, which I seem to
                                            remember also means son of Jan.

                                            Yuri, are these forms still used in Russia today?

                                            Ewa

                                            --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
                                            <styrna@t...> wrote:
                                            > Ha, ha, close but not quite. I would be a Styrna Zbigniew
                                            Jankovicz>

                                            >
                                            > :-) right?
                                            > _____
                                            >
                                            > From: Krystyna Styrna [mailto:thymetrax@y...]
                                            > Sent: January 4, 2005 1:56 PM
                                            > To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard
                                            >
                                            > Aha!!!
                                            >
                                            > I get it; Zbyszek Janka Styrnawego






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                                          • ANTONI KAZIMIERSKI
                                            Hi Group, Following the discussion on patronimics there are exceptions-as in my name. It would simply be a change to the last letter-just like in Polish
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                              Hi Group,
                                              Following the discussion on patronimics there are exceptions-as in my name. It would simply be a change to the last letter-just like in Polish language. Kazimiersk-a or-aja from-i.This would apply to the married woman and daughter. Similarly in Welsh there have to be identifible ways of distinguishing between 'Jones-es' as there are so many of them; the word 'ap' is used; meaning of-off-from.
                                              This ofcourse creates havoc in genealogy and any research into the past.
                                              antoni530
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: bdavoust2
                                              Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:02 AM
                                              Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Help with Russian postcard



                                              >
                                              > Yuri, are these forms still used in Russia today?
                                              >
                                              > Ewa   
                                              >
                                              Hi group,
                                              As far as I know, the patronymics are still used in Russian.  For both
                                              men and women, the second name is the father's name.  Hence,
                                              Juzefowicz for Zbyszek and his sister.  Opening any Russian novel
                                              translated into English will show you this.  And occasionally when
                                              Putin, for example, is mentioned, they give his first name and patronymic.

                                              Barbara Davoust





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                                            • Eve5J@aol.com
                                              Hi Sergiusz and all: In the records that my family received from the Memorial Society, my grandfather s patronymic was listed as Ivanovich. He was also a son
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                                Hi Sergiusz and all:
                                                 
                                                In the records that my family received from the Memorial Society, my grandfather's patronymic was listed as Ivanovich.  He was also a son of Jan.
                                                 
                                                Interestingly, in those same records, my grandmother's Harasymowicz surname was listed with the root of Gerasym, if I recall.  The root Harasym was translated to Russian.  Harasymowicz is another patronymic, meaning, I guess, son of Harasym.  It seems whoever typed my family's names was a linguist?
                                                 
                                                Thank you, Barbara Davoust. 
                                                 
                                                Kind regards,
                                                Eve Jankowicz   
                                                 
                                              • Michael Kulik
                                                ... my grandfather s patronymic was listed as Ivanovich. He was also a son of Jan. ... Ditto for me as regards the records I obtained from the Memorial
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                                  --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Eve5J@a... wrote:
                                                  > Hi Sergiusz and all:
                                                  >
                                                  > In the records that my family received from the Memorial Society,
                                                  my grandfather's patronymic was listed as Ivanovich. He was also a
                                                  son of Jan.
                                                  >


                                                  Ditto for me as regards the records I obtained from the Memorial
                                                  Society....

                                                  Grandfather was listed as son of Jan (Ivanovich) - correct.

                                                  Grandmother was listed as daughter of Jozef - correct.


                                                  As Eve has mentioned, the "Russian habit" of using patronymics can be
                                                  very helpful as you can often learn or confirm the first names of
                                                  long forgotten relatives. For example I was not sure of my
                                                  grandmothers fathers name, until it was verified by the Memorial
                                                  Society (and consequently since by other sources).

                                                  Michael Kulik
                                                  England.
                                                • bdavoust2
                                                  ... surname ... I guess, son of ... Eve, There is a whole other linguistic ball game with g s and h s in Russian! In the 1970 s when I was at university
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                                    >
                                                    > Interestingly, in those same records, my grandmother's Harasymowicz
                                                    surname
                                                    > was listed with the root of Gerasym, if I recall. The root Harasym was
                                                    > translated to Russian. Harasymowicz is another patronymic, meaning,
                                                    I guess, son of
                                                    > Harasym. It seems whoever typed my family's names was a linguist?
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    Eve,
                                                    There is a whole other linguistic ball game with g's and h's in
                                                    Russian! In the 1970's when I was at university studying Russian,
                                                    non-Russian names starting with H were often transliterated in G. For
                                                    example, there was a famous Shakespearean play about a Danish prince
                                                    called Gamlet. There was no exact equivalent Russian letter.
                                                    Khrushchev, for example, starts with a Russian 'X', and is breathier,
                                                    if you see what I mean. But over the last few decades, they stopped
                                                    changing names, so I would not longer be called Varvara but Barbara,
                                                    and good old Hamlet would be called just that.

                                                    Cheers,
                                                    Barbara
                                                  • Eve5J@aol.com
                                                    Hi Michael and Group - Since our families were both in Monystyriok (sp.), the same person probably did the records! Boy, there certainly are a lot of Jans. I
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jan 5, 2005
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                                                      Hi Michael and Group -
                                                       
                                                      Since our families were both in Monystyriok (sp.), the same person probably did the records!  Boy, there certainly are a lot of Jans.  I remember years ago on a Polish genealogy list, I think Fred Hoffman said that all the Jan variations are a way of differentiating.  Say a Jan of old had six sons and his cousin lived next door to him also named Jan (of course), and he also had a few sons.  One would go by Jankowicz, another by Jankiewicz, etc.  Even in Polish you will see some names beginning with Iwan, from the Russian Ivan.  Iwanowicz, et. al. 
                                                       
                                                      Regards,
                                                      Eve Jankowicz
                                                      ---- 
                                                      Ditto for me as regards the records I obtained from the Memorial
                                                      Society....
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