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Re: [Klingon_Language] Seven of nine klingon insult:

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  • kchara@aol.com
    Yeah, I m guessing it s petaQ, too. It s spelled a lot of different ways, but petaQ is the thlingon hoL spelling. Here s what I have on it (BTW, I use this
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 26 7:14 AM
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      Yeah, I'm guessing it's petaQ, too. It's spelled a lot of different ways,
      but petaQ is the thlingon hoL spelling. Here's what I have on it (BTW, I use
      this site a *lot.* Awesome if you're trying to learn Klingon...Or if you're
      going to a con and wanna try to hold your own with them. LOL) It's from
      _http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8853/curse.html_
      (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8853/curse.html)


      pahtk a Klingon insult, pronounced "pa-TAK" [pe-TAKKH]. (Sins of the Father,
      Reunion) Romulan admiral Alidar Jarok sees Worf and asks to Riker, "Tell me,
      how do you allow this Klingon pahtk to walk around in a Starfleet uniform?"
      (The Defector) The "Klingon" B'Elanna rescues the "Human" B'Elanna from an
      unpleasant situation and tells her to "Get up, p'tahk!" when she regains
      consciousness. (Faces) Kor calls Worf "this traitorous p'tak!" (The Sword of
      Kahless) Worf throws a thief he caught on Odo's desk saying, "This p'tak just
      robbed my quarters!" (Bar Association) The Doctor's holo-son Jeffrey shouted, "I'm
      going to become a warrior and I can't do that if I'm being led around on a
      leash by some bloodless patahk!" (Real Life) Also spelled patahk, p'tak,
      p'tahk, pah- tak, pahtak and pathk, it is properly petaQ in tlhIngan Hol.
      petaQ p'tahk, pahtk, pahtak or p'tak (an insult, epithet) STE [The
      unofficial definition: useless; garbage; non-functional; generally unable to get
      anything done right. This is a devastating insult to someone who has just made a
      muddle of something. "My interpretation is that this refers to a weak
      individual who doesn't carry the Warrior Spirit within." This may refer to a weak
      individual who doesn't carry the Warrior Spirit within; someone acting
      non-Klingon." (Riku Anttila) Useless garbage or incompetent person, possibly
      equivalent to English "shit" or "shithead" (Mark Shoulson, HQ 3.1). This epithet has
      the root taQ "be weird": as a sentence, literally "be weird, you all!" "To
      call someone a petaQ would be calling him some sort of weirdo or pervert."
      (Kevin A. Geiselman) - Romulan Gen Jarok sees Worf and asks Riker, "Tell me, how
      do you allow this Klingon pahtk to walk around in a Starfleet uniform?" (The
      Defector) - patahk (Sins Of The Father) - Duras, the other of the two to
      compete for the title of Chancellor of High Council, is communicating with Picard,
      who has been chosen as Arbeiter of Succession, about the Sonchi- ceremony.
      While at this, he sees Worf, at the time discommendated, enter the bridge.
      "Keep that pahtak away from the ceremony, Picard! He has no place on a Klingon
      ship. " (Reunion) - J'Ddan, a Klingon exobiologist who has been working on the
      Enterprise, is suspected of involvement in a security breach and sabotaging
      the warp core. As discommendated Worf escorts him to his quarters where he is
      confined, he tries to bribe Worf to help him steal a shuttle and escape in
      exchange for helping Worf to regain his honor. Worf is silent, but when they
      reach their destination, he hits the man several times and snarls at him "I
      don't know how you transferred secret information to the Romulans, but I will
      find out!" The man spits out "petaQ". Worf continues: "And when we inform the
      High Council, they will put you to a slow death!" (The Drumhead) - The day's
      battles over, partisans of both Duras and Gowron have gathered in a bar for
      drinking, boxing, headbutting and armwrestling, generally joymaking. Worf's
      brother Kurn exchanges a few punches with another Klingon, then laughs and sits
      with him at a table. When Worf enters, he introduces the other Klingon to
      him: "Worf, good! This piece of baktag is captain Larg. He commanded the
      squadron that tried to destroy us yesterday." (Redemption II) - Worf says there's
      evidence of a Klingon having been aboard a Federation outpost, where messages
      have been stolen. Klingon governor Torak isn't pleased: "You still try to
      blame us!" "Have the courage to admit your mistakes - or are you a lo'Be Vos?"
      "At least I don't wear the uniform of a p'tak!" (Aquiel) - Kahless, the Klingon
      messiah, has apparently returned from the dead. Gowron, Head of High
      Council, is not a believer. As he is transported to Enterprise, Picard is there to
      welcome him. "Welcome aboard, Gowron." "Where is he, Picard?" "I assume that
      you're referring to Kahless." "I am referring to the filthy pahtk who's using
      his name!" (Rightful Heir) - "pah-tak" is in the script but may not have been
      in the aired version (The Chase) - P'tak (First Born) - Quark has been
      kidnapped by the widow of Kozak, a Klingon who tripped on his blade at Quark's bar
      and whom Quark has, in order to enchance business, told everybody of having
      killed in self-defense. He awakens in a Klingon room in the presence of
      Tumek, an elderly Klingon. "Where am I?" "You are on Kronos." "Kronos... the
      Klingon Home World!" "You are in the ancestral home of what used to be known as
      the House of Kozak." "What's it called now?" "Kozak died without a male heir...
      the house no longer has a name." "What about Kozak's brother, D'Ghor?" "That
      pahtak's name is not spoken in this house! He is no brother to Kozak! His
      family has been a sworn enemy to this house for seven generations!" (House of
      Quark) - Three Klingons come down laughing from Quark's holosuites and notice
      some Romulans sitting around the table. They surround the table and Morka
      speaks: "Who let these filthy p'tahk in here?" Another replies "Maybe we should
      show them the way out" (Visionary) - "Klingon" B'Elanna rescues weak and
      timid "human" B'Elanna from the Vidiians, telling her to "Get up, p'tahk!" when
      she regains consciousness after fainting. (Faces) - Kor calls Worf "this
      traitorous p'tak!" (The Sword of Kahless) - Worf throws a thief he caught on Odo's
      desk saying, "This p'tak just robbed my quarters!" (Bar Association) -
      Regent Worf growls to Mirror-Garak, "So this is the p'tak who lost Terok Nor to
      the rebels." (Shattered Mirror) - B'Ellana categorically rejects Tom Paris'
      suggestion regarding Ens Vorik by saying, "I am not helping that Vulcan p'tak."
      (Blood Fever) - The Doctor's holo-son Jeffrey shouted, "I'm going to become a
      warrior and I can't do that if I'm being led around on a leash by some
      bloodless patahk!" (Real Life) - [K'Tar] glared at Qua'lon, then spit on the
      floor. "You petaQ! Your men have ransacked my home. Taken my belongings, my
      treasures, beaten my son, dRacLa." (STK: 166)


      In a message dated 3/26/2008 4:09:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      philip.newton@... writes:




      On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 2:37 AM, mor'taH <_mor.tah_tsepes@..._t_
      (mailto:mor.tah_tsepes@...) > wrote:
      > During one instance, she takes on the character of the "son of
      > K'vok" and says (to B'elanna)... "You wear the uniform of a
      > Starfleet puh-chaH."
      >
      > I've never heard this insult before. Any information on this?

      My first guess is {petaQ}, which I've also seen spelled "pe-takh".

      Cheers,
      --
      Philip Newton <_philip.newton@..._ (mailto:philip.newton@...) >






      **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
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    • Steven Boozer
      ... This could be a VERY distorted attempt by the actor to pronounce {pujwI } weakling , a term frequently associated with humans (at least in English
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 26 7:59 AM
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        mor'taH:
        > > During one instance, she takes on the character of the "son of
        > > K'vok" and says (to B'elanna)... "You wear the uniform of a
        > > Starfleet puh-chaH."
        > >
        > > I've never heard this insult before. Any information on this?

        This could be a VERY distorted attempt by the actor to pronounce {pujwI'}
        "weakling", a term frequently associated with humans (at least in English
        dialogue). When the writers dropped isolated Klingon words into the script
        - assuming the were even spelled correctly - they seem to have provided no
        clues on how to pronounce them and the the actors were forced to make their
        best guess. The directors accepted it provided these guesses sounded
        guttural and "Klingon" enough since they didn't want to waste time
        re-shooting the scene.


        Philip Newton:
        >My first guess is {petaQ}, which I've also seen spelled "pe-takh".

        It's also spelled *p'tahk*, *pahtk*, *pahtak*, *patahk* and *p'tak* in the
        scripts and subtitles. It certainly was the Paramount writers' favorite
        Klingon insult. In fact, they used it twice WRT Klingons wearing Starfleet
        uniforms:

        In TNG "Aquiel" Worf tells Klingon governor Torak that there's evidence of
        a Klingon having been abroad a Federation outpost, where messages have been
        stolen. Torak isn't pleased:

        TORAK: "You still try to blame us!"
        WORF: "Have the courage to admit your mistakes,or are you a *lo'Be Vos*?"
        TORAK: "At least I don't wear the uniform of a *p'tak* [{petaQ}]!"

        [Don't ask what a *lo'Be Vos* is! We never heard this term again. <g>]


        In TNG "The Defector" the defecting Romulan general Alidar Jarok sees Worf
        in Enterprise's sick bay and asks Riker, "Tell me, how do you allow this
        Klingon *pahtk* [{petaQ}] to walk around in a Starfleet uniform?" Worf
        grunts something threatening and Jarok replies, "Get this *tohzah*
        [{toDSaH}] out of my sight!" Riker smugly comments that "only a *veruul*"
        would say that, thus trumping Jarok's knowledge of Klingon curses with his
        own knowledge of Romulan.




        --
        Voragh
        Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
      • mor'taH
        Given the very distinctive sound of this word (pooch ahh) I have serious doubts as to it being petaQ (wierdo {you/wierd}...lol) I see that {puch} is toilet, so
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 29 1:41 AM
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          Given the very distinctive sound of this word (pooch ahh) I have
          serious doubts as to it being petaQ (wierdo {you/wierd}...lol)

          I see that {puch} is toilet, so I'm wondering if it's not leaning
          toward something like a Federation toilet ?scrubber?. Perhaps it was
          supposed to be puch'av, toilet gaurd, which is simply hilarious, if
          you ask me. Still no luck finding a direct copy of the script for
          this epy (season 5, epy 101 or 102 [I've seen it both ways]).
          Thoughts?

          I am very glad you brought up the curse of lo'be voS. I love this
          insult, but have had a bit of trouble nailing it. It seems the jist
          of it is basically use/woman/?. I am thinking along the lines
          of "You're just some serving wench", but can't find a translation
          for {voS}. Any help?

          --- In Klingon_Language@yahoogroups.com, Steven Boozer <sboozer@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > mor'taH:
          > > > During one instance, she takes on the character of the "son of
          > > > K'vok" and says (to B'elanna)... "You wear the uniform of a
          > > > Starfleet puh-chaH."
          > > >
          > > > I've never heard this insult before. Any information on this?
          >
          > This could be a VERY distorted attempt by the actor to pronounce
          {pujwI'}
          > "weakling", a term frequently associated with humans (at least in
          English
          > dialogue). When the writers dropped isolated Klingon words into
          the script
          > - assuming the were even spelled correctly - they seem to have
          provided no
          > clues on how to pronounce them and the the actors were forced to
          make their
          > best guess. The directors accepted it provided these guesses
          sounded
          > guttural and "Klingon" enough since they didn't want to waste time
          > re-shooting the scene.

          > In TNG "Aquiel" Worf tells Klingon governor Torak that there's
          evidence of
          > a Klingon having been abroad a Federation outpost, where messages
          have been
          > stolen. Torak isn't pleased:
          >
          > TORAK: "You still try to blame us!"
          > WORF: "Have the courage to admit your mistakes,or are you a
          *lo'Be Vos*?"
          > TORAK: "At least I don't wear the uniform of a *p'tak*
          [{petaQ}]!"
          >
          > [Don't ask what a *lo'Be Vos* is! We never heard this term again.
          <g>]....
          >
          > > --
          > Voragh
          > Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
          >
        • Steven Boozer
          ... Captain Arizhel vestai-Reshtarc managed to find the relevant scene from VOY Infinite Regress at
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 31 8:03 AM
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            At 03:41 AM Saturday 3/29/2008, mor'taH wrote:
            >>Given the very distinctive sound of this word (pooch ahh) I have
            >>serious doubts as to it being petaQ (wierdo {you/wierd}...lol)
            >>
            >>I see that {puch} is toilet, so I'm wondering if it's not leaning
            >>toward something like a Federation toilet ?scrubber?. Perhaps it was
            >>supposed to be puch'av, toilet gaurd, which is simply hilarious, if
            >>you ask me. Still no luck finding a direct copy of the script for
            >>this epy (season 5, epy 101 or 102 [I've seen it both ways]).

            Captain Arizhel vestai-Reshtarc managed to find the relevant scene from VOY
            "Infinite Regress"
            at
            <http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/509.htm>http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/509.htm
            which she sent me off -list:

            >[Engineering]
            >
            >TORRES: Take a look at this, will you? I'm picking up an energy signal in
            >the lower subspace bands, and if I'm not mistaken it's got a Borg modulation.
            >SEVEN: You're correct. It is Borg. I believe it's a neural interlink
            >frequency.
            >TORRES: A what?
            >SEVEN: A frequency that integrates the minds of Borg drones.
            >TORRES: Can you pinpoint the origin?
            >SEVEN: I will try.
            >TORRES: No offence, Seven, but you look terrible.
            >SEVEN: I am not well. I experienced a brief lapse in memory and I am
            >disoriented.
            >TORRES: Maybe you should get to Sickbay.
            >SEVEN: No. This interlink frequency could explain my... Do'Raq Merash.
            >TORRES: I beg your pardon?
            >SEVEN: I am the son of K'vok! And you, what House are you from?
            >TORRES: Is this some kind of a joke?
            >SEVEN: You wear the uniform of a Starfleet P'Cha! What kind of a warrior
            >are you?
            >TORRES: Tom put you up to this, didn't he? Well, it didn't work.
            >SEVEN: Come, warrior, let me look at you.
            >TORRES: Enough, Seven!
            >SEVEN: Your blood is sweet!
            >TORRES: Torres to Security. Get somebody down here right now.
            >SEVEN: You are strong. You will make an excellent mate!
            >TORRES: Get the hell away from me!
            >SEVEN: You wish to prove yourself in battle!


            Is this taken from the actual shooting script or were the "Klingon" words
            the best guess of whoever transcribed it or added the closed
            captions? Note the other bit of gibberish "Klingon": *Do'Raq Merash*.



            --
            Voragh
            Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
          • mor'taH
            ... , Steven Boozer wrote: SEVEN: You wear the uniform of a Starfleet P Cha! What kind of a warrior are
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 31 8:42 PM
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              --- In Klingon_Language@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:Klingon_Language@yahoogroups.com> , Steven Boozer <sboozer@...>
              wrote:
              SEVEN: You wear the uniform of a Starfleet P'Cha! What kind of a warrior
              are you? Is this taken from the actual shooting script or were the
              "Klingon" words the best guess of whoever transcribed it or added the
              closed captions? Note the other bit of gibberish "Klingon": *Do'Raq
              Merash*.
              --
              Voragh
              Ca'Non Master of the Klingons ============================ mor'taH
              replies: No, it is not, to my knowledge. I have found one other that
              has it spelled a completely different way. I have not yet been able to
              resourse an actual true copy. Niether of those I found follow the
              standard transposing of script copies. I am very inclined to want to
              use {puch'av} as it fits best (maybe we can chalk it up to 'regional
              dialical distiction?), but, as you, would like to see what the actual
              script says. it may well be a gibberish word, in which case, how can we
              'induct' {puch'av} as a formal insult? ...lol Side question: would it
              be correct to assume that {P'} is the same as {pe}, given the example of
              D'K'Tagh, vs daqtagh.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steven Boozer
              ... No. When Okrand transliterates this semi-vowel - or breaks up an initial consonant cluster - he usually uses /I/ although /a/, /e/ and /u/ are also seen
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 1, 2008
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                Seven of Nine said (in VOY "Infinite Regress"):
                >>>SEVEN: You wear the uniform of a Starfleet P'Cha! What kind
                >>> of a warrior are you?

                Voragh:
                >>Is this taken from the actual shooting script or were the
                >>"Klingon" words the best guess of whoever transcribed it or added the
                >>closed captions? Note the other bit of gibberish "Klingon": *Do'Raq
                >>Merash*.

                mor'taH:
                >No, it is not, to my knowledge. I have found one other that
                >has it spelled a completely different way. I have not yet been able
                >to resourse an actual true copy. Niether of those I found follow the
                >standard transposing of script copies.

                mor'taH:
                >>Given the very distinctive sound of this word (pooch ahh) I have
                >>serious doubts as to it being petaQ (wierdo {you/wierd}...lol)
                >>
                >>I see that {puch} is toilet, so I'm wondering if it's not leaning
                >>toward something like a Federation toilet ?scrubber?. Perhaps it was
                >>supposed to be puch'av, toilet guard, which is simply hilarious, if
                >>you ask me.

                mor'taH:
                >I am very inclined to want to use {puch'av} as it fits best (maybe we
                >can chalk it up to 'regional dialical distiction?), but, as you, would
                >like to see what the actual script says. it may well be a gibberish word,
                >in which case, how can we 'induct' {puch'av} as a formal insult? ...lol
                >
                >Side question: would it be correct to assume that {P'} is the same as
                >{pe}, given the example of D'K'Tagh, vs daqtagh.

                No. When Okrand transliterates this semi-vowel - or breaks up an initial
                consonant cluster - he usually uses /I/ although /a/, /e/ and /u/ are also
                seen on occasion:

                baQa' b'aka (expletive)
                Daqtagh d'k tahg (knife)
                ma'veq m'veQ (knife)

                be'etor B'Etor (proper name)
                petaQ p'tahk, p'tak (epithet)

                bIraqlul brak'lul (redundancy in body parts)
                bIreqtal Brek'tal (ritual)
                bIreQtagh bregit lung
                bI'rel B'rel (ship)
                DI'qar D'Kar (proper name)
                ghI'boj G'boj (proper name or place?)
                qImlaq K'mlak (proper name)
                qItI'nga' K'Tinga, K'ti'nga (ship)
                qIvo'rIt K'Vort (ship)
                qI'empeq K'mpec (proper name)
                tIghla' t'gla (animal)
                tI'ang T'Ong (ship)
                tI'vIS T'vis (proper name)
                vIghro' v'gro (animal)

                Suto'vo'qor Sto-Vo-Kor, Stovokor (place)




                --
                Voragh
                Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
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