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A couple questions about using the interface

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  • David Dunham
    Been thinking about UI for the iOS version: how useful is the “magic rock” in the center of most screens? It shows active and possible blessings for
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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      Been thinking about UI for the iOS version: how useful is the “magic rock” in the center of most screens? It shows active and possible blessings for current screen. But it made use of mouse rollover, so it has to change. Plus, it didn’t fit. Do you refer to the available blessings? Is the slow lighting up fun progress to see?

      While working on the Saga screen, I realized we wrote code to search, but never made a UI. Is searching the saga worthwhile?

      David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass
    • Bryan Thexton
      I would look at the rock occasionally for a quick check of what I had running or didn t, and kind of liked seeing it light up.....but it was a sort of
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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        I would look at the rock occasionally for a quick check of what I had running or didn't, and kind of liked seeing it light up.....but it was a sort of nice-to-have that had very little impact on my playing of or enjoyment of the game. It might have helped more when I was first starting out, but I managed to totally forget about it and not pay it any attention until I'd played through the game a few times.

        --- On Fri, 10/29/10, David Dunham <david@...> wrote:

        > From: David Dunham <david@...>
        > Subject: [KoDP] A couple questions about using the interface
        > To: KingOfDragonPass@yahoogroups.com
        > Received: Friday, October 29, 2010, 2:06 PM
        > Been thinking about UI for the iOS
        > version: how useful is the “magic rock” in the center of
        > most screens? It shows active and possible blessings for
        > current screen. But it made use of mouse rollover, so it has
        > to change. Plus, it didn’t fit. Do you refer to the
        > available blessings? Is the slow lighting up fun progress to
        > see?
        >
        > While working on the Saga screen, I realized we wrote code
        > to search, but never made a UI. Is searching the saga
        > worthwhile?
        >
        > David Dunham      http://a-sharp.com      Twitter:
        > @KingDragonPass
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
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      • James Sterrett
        ... There needs to be *some* reminder of what blessings are currently active, either on the screen or readily available. The rock is fun, but if it s gotta go
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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          > Been thinking about UI for the iOS version: how useful is the “magic rock” in the center of most screens? It shows active and possible blessings for current screen. But it made use of mouse rollover, so it has to change. Plus, it didn’t fit. Do you refer to the available blessings? Is the slow lighting up fun progress to see?

          There needs to be *some* reminder of what blessings are currently
          active, either on the screen or readily available. The rock is fun,
          but if it's gotta go it's gotta go.

          I can never remember what the symbols are, so I use the rollover a lot.

          > While working on the Saga screen, I realized we wrote code to search, but never made a UI. Is searching the saga worthwhile?

          Yes, but -- the problem may be that players don't know what to search
          for. For example: "I signed a peace pact with somebody recently,
          um.. " What's the best search term? It may be handy to have some
          autosort search terms, for various agreements made that are still
          running?

          --
          James Sterrett
          james.sterrett@...
        • Kaj Sotala
          ... My experience was pretty much the same as Bryan s.
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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            On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Bryan Thexton <bethexton@...> wrote:
            > I would look at the rock occasionally for a quick check of what I had running or didn't, and kind of liked seeing it light up.....but it was a sort of nice-to-have that had very little impact on my playing of or enjoyment of the game. It might have helped more when I was first starting out, but I managed to totally forget about it and not pay it any attention until I'd played through the game a few times.
            >

            My experience was pretty much the same as Bryan's.
          • Bryan Thexton
            One thought about the rock, perhaps it could be used along with the sacred time annual summary, since you can t do the tula picture apparently?  It would at
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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              One thought about the rock, perhaps it could be used along with the sacred time annual summary, since you can't do the tula picture apparently?  It would at least provide a nice visual of where the magic is at, and use mostly existing scripts I'd hope.....perhaps not, just tossing out an idea.

              --- On Fri, 10/29/10, Kaj Sotala <xuenay@...> wrote:

              From: Kaj Sotala <xuenay@...>
              Subject: Re: [KoDP] A couple questions about using the interface
              To: KingOfDragonPass@yahoogroups.com
              Received: Friday, October 29, 2010, 2:54 PM







               









              On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Bryan Thexton <bethexton@...> wrote:

              > I would look at the rock occasionally for a quick check of what I had running or didn't, and kind of liked seeing it light up.....but it was a sort of nice-to-have that had very little impact on my playing of or enjoyment of the game. It might have helped more when I was first starting out, but I managed to totally forget about it and not pay it any attention until I'd played through the game a few times.

              >



              My experience was pretty much the same as Bryan's.






















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Meredith Dixon
              There really needs to be a way for the player to know which heroquests have been accomplished during the later part of the Long Game. That s what I use the
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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                There really needs to be a way for the player to know which heroquests
                have been accomplished during the later part of the Long Game. That's
                what I use the rock for, and, yes, I do like to see it lighting up.
                I don't use it to check on blessings at all.

                The main thing I need to check the Saga for is to find out when we
                made our agreement with the fox. Everything else is mildly
                entertaining to reread, but not essential.

                --
                Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>
                Maconiana has been published at last!
                <http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=4340342>
              • Guy Hoyle
                I like the rock, but I have to remind myself that it shows valuable information. I don t know why. Guy
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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                  I like the rock, but I have to remind myself that it shows valuable
                  information. I don't know why.

                  Guy

                  On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:06 PM, David Dunham <david@...> wrote:
                  > Been thinking about UI for the iOS version: how useful is the “magic rock” in the center of most screens? It shows active and possible blessings for current screen. But it made use of mouse rollover, so it has to change. Plus, it didn’t fit. Do you refer to the available blessings? Is the slow lighting up fun progress to see?
                  >
                  > While working on the Saga screen, I realized we wrote code to search, but never made a UI. Is searching the saga worthwhile?
                  >
                  > David Dunham      http://a-sharp.com      Twitter: @KingDragonPass
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
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                • Edward Bornstein
                  ... I like the rock and used it, both to see what was active, and as a quick way to ask what could I try to deal with this problem I m having now? . ... It
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 29, 2010
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                    > Been thinking about UI for the iOS version: how useful is the ?magic rock?
                    > in the center of most screens? It shows active and possible blessings for
                    > current screen. But it made use of mouse rollover, so it has to change.
                    > Plus, it didn?t fit. Do you refer to the available blessings? Is the slow
                    > lighting up fun progress to see?

                    I like the rock and used it, both to see what was active, and as a quick
                    way to ask "what could I try to deal with this problem I'm having now?".

                    > While working on the Saga screen, I realized we wrote code to search, but
                    > never made a UI. Is searching the saga worthwhile?

                    It would be a nice feature, but I didn't use the saga that often. Mostly
                    for things time things like when the deal with the fox or a peace treaty
                    with a clan expires. Or if I heroquested last year.

                    Digressing, there was one very annoying thing I recall happening once. I
                    had been raiding a clan and they paid me tribute in return for a 2 year
                    peace treaty. A few season later they raid me. I assume the deal is
                    broken and raid them back. Then I get zapped by the gods for treaty
                    breaking. Bogus!
                  • outis02
                    I do check oggle at the rock quite often, and I like to have it lit up like a christmas tree... In some of my games I tried to have it all lit up as much as
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 30, 2010
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                      I do check oggle at the rock quite often, and I like to have it lit up like a christmas tree... In some of my games I tried to have it all lit up as much as possible, just as an extra challenge -- most of the blessings are fairly useless.

                      Obviously the rock isn't that critical, and it can easily be replaced with something simpler. However, KoDP, as it is, already _suffers_ from the lack of visual feedback. We KoDPers are very used to it, but if you want to attract new players, you may want to try to make actions seem more interactive and consequential -- even if it's only providing purely cosmetic feedback.

                      As for the saga, I don't use it that much either... I don't usually find my own clan's story that interesting to read, since I generally have a pretty good idea of what happened for the duration of a game. And it's not that helpful as an auto-note system, as not all the events I consider "noteworthy" are recorded. I don't imagine it would be much more fun to read through pages and pages of oft-repetitive text on a 3.5" screen, but that's just me.

                      IF you want to make the saga both more interesting and more navigable, you may want to make it into more of a condenced timeline rather than just a huge block of text. Navigating the saga would then be like scrolling down iPhone's Note; it's a list of titles, which could be tapped to display the full text. This way the need of a search feature is also much reduced.

                      If you want to go the extra mile to make it an even richer feature, you could even iconize the entries or colour-code it, so that you can get a visual representation of the clan's fortune at a glance. It can even be combined with a statistics timeline... but did you already decided not to have stats?
                    • David Dunham
                      Thanks for the feedback. No design decisions yet. Dropping the light-up runes would definitely save some development time. Putting it in a different place
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 30, 2010
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                        Thanks for the feedback. No design decisions yet. Dropping the light-up runes would definitely save some development time. Putting it in a different place doesn't help with that :)

                        I've experimented with putting a thumbnail version of the scene art in the saga, but this actually didn't work all that well.

                        > it's not that helpful as an auto-note system, as not all the events I consider "noteworthy" are recorded.

                        Auto-notes are one of the main goals, so I'm curious what else should be there. "We recruited 4 weaponthanes" seems well below the bar. Raids and missions show up though.

                        David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass
                      • Meredith Dixon
                        ... Long-term (for many years): Treaty with the fox. Treaties with other clans. Trade pacts with other clans. Heroquests attempted. Short-term (for one
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 30, 2010
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                          > Auto-notes are one of the main goals, so I'm curious what else should be there. "We recruited 4 weaponthanes" seems well below the bar. Raids and missions show up though.

                          Long-term (for many years):
                          Treaty with the fox. Treaties with other clans. Trade pacts with
                          other clans. Heroquests attempted.

                          Short-term (for one year):
                          Gods' demands. Particularly no-raid, must-raid, must-explore,
                          specific crop failure, should-heroquest, should learn blessing.




                          --
                          Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>
                          Maconiana has been published at last!
                          <http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=4340342>
                        • David Dunham
                          ... Meredith, aren t these things there already? David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 31, 2010
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                            >> Auto-notes are one of the main goals, so I'm curious what else should be there. "We recruited 4 weaponthanes" seems well below the bar. Raids and missions show up though.
                            >
                            > Long-term (for many years):
                            > Treaty with the fox. Treaties with other clans. Trade pacts with
                            > other clans. Heroquests attempted.
                            >
                            > Short-term (for one year):
                            > Gods' demands. Particularly no-raid, must-raid, must-explore,
                            > specific crop failure, should-heroquest, should learn blessing.


                            Meredith, aren't these things there already?

                            David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass
                          • Meredith Dixon
                            Yes, but the long-term ones are hard to find in the clan history, especially if you aren t sure what year they took place. Finding the term of the agreement
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 31, 2010
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                              Yes, but the long-term ones are hard to find in the clan history,
                              especially if you aren't sure what year they took place. Finding the
                              term of the agreement with the fox, in particular, has always been
                              such a chore that I usually just wait ten years instead of five to be
                              sure I won't break the agreement.

                              I grant you that the short-term Sacred Time events are right there at
                              the start of the year, and therefore easy to find, but too often I
                              forget to check history when restarting from save. I was hoping that
                              your new Auto-Notes would be more prominent and perhaps shorter and
                              simpler -- or at least would have a short, simple summary before the
                              more florid entry for the year.

                              On 10/31/2010, David Dunham <david@...> wrote:
                              >>> Auto-notes are one of the main goals, so I'm curious what else should be
                              >>> there. "We recruited 4 weaponthanes" seems well below the bar. Raids and
                              >>> missions show up though.
                              >>
                              >> Long-term (for many years):
                              >> Treaty with the fox. Treaties with other clans. Trade pacts with
                              >> other clans. Heroquests attempted.
                              >>
                              >> Short-term (for one year):
                              >> Gods' demands. Particularly no-raid, must-raid, must-explore,
                              >> specific crop failure, should-heroquest, should learn blessing.
                              >
                              >
                              > Meredith, aren't these things there already?
                              >
                              > David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Community e-mail addresses:
                              > Post message: KingOfDragonPass@onelist.com
                              > Subscribe: KingOfDragonPass-subscribe@onelist.com
                              > Unsubscribe: KingOfDragonPass-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                              > List/archive URL:
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              --
                              Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>
                              Maconiana has been published at last!
                              <http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=4340342>
                            • outis02
                              Yes, talking fox... Wouldn t it be so very nice if at least one of the ring members would remember making such deals and pipe up when appropriate?
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 31, 2010
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                                Yes, talking fox... Wouldn't it be so very nice if at least one of the ring members would remember making such deals and pipe up when appropriate?

                                --- In KingOfDragonPass@yahoogroups.com, Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Yes, but the long-term ones are hard to find in the clan history,
                                > especially if you aren't sure what year they took place. Finding the
                                > term of the agreement with the fox, in particular, has always been
                                > such a chore that I usually just wait ten years instead of five to be
                                > sure I won't break the agreement.
                                >
                                > I grant you that the short-term Sacred Time events are right there at
                                > the start of the year, and therefore easy to find, but too often I
                                > forget to check history when restarting from save. I was hoping that
                                > your new Auto-Notes would be more prominent and perhaps shorter and
                                > simpler -- or at least would have a short, simple summary before the
                                > more florid entry for the year.
                                >
                                > On 10/31/2010, David Dunham <david@...> wrote:
                                > >>> Auto-notes are one of the main goals, so I'm curious what else should be
                                > >>> there. "We recruited 4 weaponthanes" seems well below the bar. Raids and
                                > >>> missions show up though.
                                > >>
                                > >> Long-term (for many years):
                                > >> Treaty with the fox. Treaties with other clans. Trade pacts with
                                > >> other clans. Heroquests attempted.
                                > >>
                                > >> Short-term (for one year):
                                > >> Gods' demands. Particularly no-raid, must-raid, must-explore,
                                > >> specific crop failure, should-heroquest, should learn blessing.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Meredith, aren't these things there already?
                                > >
                                > > David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > Community e-mail addresses:
                                > > Post message: KingOfDragonPass@onelist.com
                                > > Subscribe: KingOfDragonPass-subscribe@onelist.com
                                > > Unsubscribe: KingOfDragonPass-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                > > List/archive URL:
                                > > http://www.onelist.com/community/KingOfDragonPassYahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>
                                > Maconiana has been published at last!
                                > <http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=4340342>
                                >
                              • Bryan Thexton
                                Just a general note about the notes and reminders:  I don t know about anyone else, but I often played the game in a lot of short spurts (10 minutes while my
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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                                  Just a general note about the notes and reminders:  I don't know about anyone else, but I often played the game in a lot of short spurts (10 minutes while my son was reading before bedtime, five minutes in the morning while having my breakfast, a few turns kind of casually played while catching the end of a hockey game, that sort of thing).  So the notes, of all sorts, were really important, even something that happened last year might have have a number of days and a couple of play sessions ago.

                                  I'd think the Iphone app would lend itself to exactly this sort of playing, so a quick way of knowing current agreements and imperatives and time limited blessings would be really nice (ideally one click to see that Orlanth and Issaries want us to have more treasures by the end of the year, we need to learn one of Odayla's blessings or he'll take away the game, we have agreed not to raid the hated Anmaring clan for seven more seasons, and that we currently have Uralda's blessing to help deal with bull-headed people thanks to a heroquest).    With that in I'd barely care about the saga....and the game must be tracking that information already, so it would be a question of how hard it was to code that summary.

                                  --- On Sun, 10/31/10, Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...> wrote:

                                  From: Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [KoDP] Re: A couple questions about using the interface
                                  To: KingOfDragonPass@yahoogroups.com
                                  Received: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 4:55 PM







                                   









                                  Yes, but the long-term ones are hard to find in the clan history,

                                  especially if you aren't sure what year they took place. Finding the

                                  term of the agreement with the fox, in particular, has always been

                                  such a chore that I usually just wait ten years instead of five to be

                                  sure I won't break the agreement.



                                  I grant you that the short-term Sacred Time events are right there at

                                  the start of the year, and therefore easy to find, but too often I

                                  forget to check history when restarting from save. I was hoping that

                                  your new Auto-Notes would be more prominent and perhaps shorter and

                                  simpler -- or at least would have a short, simple summary before the

                                  more florid entry for the year.



                                  On 10/31/2010, David Dunham <david@...> wrote:

                                  >>> Auto-notes are one of the main goals, so I'm curious what else should be

                                  >>> there. "We recruited 4 weaponthanes" seems well below the bar. Raids and

                                  >>> missions show up though.

                                  >>

                                  >> Long-term (for many years):

                                  >> Treaty with the fox. Treaties with other clans. Trade pacts with

                                  >> other clans. Heroquests attempted.

                                  >>

                                  >> Short-term (for one year):

                                  >> Gods' demands. Particularly no-raid, must-raid, must-explore,

                                  >> specific crop failure, should-heroquest, should learn blessing.

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > Meredith, aren't these things there already?

                                  >

                                  > David Dunham http://a-sharp.com Twitter: @KingDragonPass

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > ------------------------------------

                                  >

                                  > Community e-mail addresses:

                                  > Post message: KingOfDragonPass@onelist.com

                                  > Subscribe: KingOfDragonPass-subscribe@onelist.com

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                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >



                                  --

                                  Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>

                                  Maconiana has been published at last!

                                  <http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=4340342>






















                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Meredith Dixon
                                  ... Exactly. You explained it better than I did, but that s the sort of thing I think the game needs. Admittedly, part of KoDP s challenge has always been
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 1, 2010
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                                    On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 09:31, Bryan Thexton <bethexton@...> wrote:

                                    > I'd think the Iphone app would lend itself to exactly this sort of playing, so a quick way of knowing current agreements and imperatives and time limited blessings would be really nice (ideally one click to see that Orlanth and Issaries want us to have more treasures by the end of the year, we need to learn one of Odayla's blessings or he'll take away the game, we have agreed not to raid the hated Anmaring clan for seven more seasons, and that we currently have Uralda's blessing to help deal with bull-headed people thanks to a heroquest).    With that in I'd barely care about the saga....and the game must be tracking that information already, so it would be a question of how hard it was to code that summary.

                                    Exactly. You explained it better than I did, but that's the sort of
                                    thing I think the game needs. Admittedly, part of KoDP's challenge
                                    has always been to remember that sort of stuff from session to
                                    session, but I'm going through perimenopause. These days I'm finding
                                    it hard to remember what I was going to buy at the grocery store, much
                                    less what my clan was doing when I played the game yesterday or the
                                    day before. If you think it would make the game too
                                    easy to have such a summary, you could make it an option on Average
                                    and turn it off on Hard.

                                    --
                                    Meredith Dixon <dixonm@...>
                                    Maconiana has been published at last!
                                    <http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=4340342>
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