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Finally did it :)

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  • bethexton@yahoo.com
    At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :) I did a couple of times go back to correct finger mistakes (that is sending the wrong person on the
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 12, 2004
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      At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :)

      I did a couple of times go back to correct finger mistakes (that is
      sending the wrong person on the mission, or one time clicking on the
      wrong heroquest(!), and immediately deciding I was going back to fix
      it, before seeing how it turned out. Also two times my laptop locked
      up, both timew when things were going badly, so losing a couple of
      seasons back to the last save was a blessing those times.

      I found the secret was patience. Anytime I started to get the urge
      to "just do this and see what happens" I made myself quit playing (or
      a couple of times save it, make it the last save of the evening, then
      play out the what the heck let's see what happens just to see what
      would have happened, and the typical results indicated that I was
      right not to play when impatient. The game only ran 50 years, not
      really so long, but I spaced it out over a long time because of that
      no playing when impatient rule.

      The clan had its share of problems, including ongoing issues with
      chaos (right at the end a Storm Bull came by looking for chaos
      cultist, but we didn't let him question--I didn't want to know if it
      was the tribal queen! But I wonder if in fact we did have a chaos
      worshipper on the ring with all the problems we had). We also went
      most of the key years after tribe building with no trickster, the
      early years without an Ernaldan chief, and the last part of the game
      with no LM worshipper. We ended up with our Uraldan tribal queen
      being our best fighter (heroic in combat as well as leadership). We
      lost a LOT of war leaders and explorers, I've not gone through
      leaders so fast.

      On the other hand, we had two big early strokes of luck. We absorbed
      another clan in 1331, giving us a temporary cow shortage but making
      us much stronger, then a couple of years later we got the Uralda
      priestess wanting to marry one of our weaponthanes event, and got him
      to do so, gaining 50 cows and an ally. Because of those two events
      the clan was much stronger early on than most, giving it more ability
      to roll with the strokes of bad luck which happened. Also managed
      both to steal the silver dragon and kill the wyrm for its treasure.
      So it was a very fortunate start.

      Mind you, I'd started off and given up on a few clans before getting
      lucky with this one.

      Just for reference the clan was Ernalda, battle of extinguished
      field, adopted as family, worst enemy was Valind/winter, balanced,
      awakened Chalana Arroy, hostile and fought against dragons.

      So it is possible to "win" the long game on hard without fixing fate
      by going back in time to avoid bad fortune. But I don't think you
      can assume it is possible with every clan.

      --Bryan
    • Alexander G. M. Smith
      ... Good play testing, nice to know it s possible! I wonder if A-Sharp actually had anyone try doing that sort of extensive test. Reminds me of an afternoon
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 12, 2004
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        bethexton@... wrote on Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:33:51 -0000:
        > At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :)

        Good play testing, nice to know it's possible! I wonder if A-Sharp
        actually had anyone try doing that sort of extensive test. Reminds
        me of an afternoon trying to win a Motocross game at expert level at
        work. But that only took an afternoon, and memorization of the racetrack.
        I expect you've memorized a lot to be able to win on hard level - all the
        quests and myths, many of the event decisions, anything else?

        - Alex
      • Bryan Thexton
        ... Hmmm, been playing on and off for something like five years, I think I have pretty much all major events pretty well mapped out. I still sometimes get
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 12, 2004
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          --- "Alexander G. M. Smith" <agmsmith@...> wrote:

          > I expect you've memorized a lot to be able to win on hard level - all
          > the
          > quests and myths, many of the event decisions, anything else?
          >
          Hmmm, been playing on and off for something like five years, I think I
          have pretty much all major events pretty well mapped out. I still
          sometimes get surprised, but not often, and not usually on key events
          (since you obviously hit those more often).

          One factor was choosing safe, reasonably optimal, options. But as I
          said, I was lucky in getting some good breaks in the first few years.
          There is enough random elements that it isn't just a matter of
          memorizing the right responses. For example, we had clan members
          captured by the horse spawn. A few years later we were strong
          militarily, but had just split the clan so were short on farmers, and I
          wanted to get them back. But our expeditions to the horse spawn
          territory mostly came back in tatters, with a few succsefully ambushing
          grazers. But many expeditions over the yeards after that, we never hit
          the event where you see your captured clan-mates and have an
          opportunity to liberate them. Nor did we get a second shot at the
          golden-eye horse. I made what I thought was the right decision, and
          just lost more warriors in other words.

          --Bryan



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        • David Short
          Congrats Bryan! I ve tried this several times and never ended up doing it. I suspect yours is the only time its been done. dfs
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 13, 2004
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            Congrats Bryan!

            I've tried this several times and never ended up doing it.
            I suspect yours is the only time its been done.

            dfs

            >At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :)
            >
            >I did a couple of times go back to correct finger mistakes (that is
            >sending the wrong person on the mission, or one time clicking on the
            >wrong heroquest(!), and immediately deciding I was going back to fix
            >it, before seeing how it turned out. Also two times my laptop locked
            >up, both timew when things were going badly, so losing a couple of
            >seasons back to the last save was a blessing those times.
            >
            >I found the secret was patience. Anytime I started to get the urge
            >to "just do this and see what happens" I made myself quit playing (or
            >a couple of times save it, make it the last save of the evening, then
            >play out the what the heck let's see what happens just to see what
            >would have happened, and the typical results indicated that I was
            >right not to play when impatient. The game only ran 50 years, not
            >really so long, but I spaced it out over a long time because of that
            >no playing when impatient rule.
            >
            >The clan had its share of problems, including ongoing issues with
            >chaos (right at the end a Storm Bull came by looking for chaos
            >cultist, but we didn't let him question--I didn't want to know if it
            >was the tribal queen! But I wonder if in fact we did have a chaos
            >worshipper on the ring with all the problems we had). We also went
            >most of the key years after tribe building with no trickster, the
            >early years without an Ernaldan chief, and the last part of the game
            >with no LM worshipper. We ended up with our Uraldan tribal queen
            >being our best fighter (heroic in combat as well as leadership). We
            >lost a LOT of war leaders and explorers, I've not gone through
            >leaders so fast.
            >
            >On the other hand, we had two big early strokes of luck. We absorbed
            >another clan in 1331, giving us a temporary cow shortage but making
            >us much stronger, then a couple of years later we got the Uralda
            >priestess wanting to marry one of our weaponthanes event, and got him
            >to do so, gaining 50 cows and an ally. Because of those two events
            >the clan was much stronger early on than most, giving it more ability
            >to roll with the strokes of bad luck which happened. Also managed
            >both to steal the silver dragon and kill the wyrm for its treasure.
            >So it was a very fortunate start.
            >
            >Mind you, I'd started off and given up on a few clans before getting
            >lucky with this one.
            >
            >Just for reference the clan was Ernalda, battle of extinguished
            >field, adopted as family, worst enemy was Valind/winter, balanced,
            >awakened Chalana Arroy, hostile and fought against dragons.
            >
            >So it is possible to "win" the long game on hard without fixing fate
            >by going back in time to avoid bad fortune. But I don't think you
            >can assume it is possible with every clan.
            >
            >--Bryan
          • David Dunham
            Alex ... Heck no. I can t recall if we had time to complete a long/hard game before initial ship (I seem to recall that I was proving to QA that it could be
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 13, 2004
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              Alex

              > > At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :)
              >
              >Good play testing, nice to know it's possible! I wonder if A-Sharp
              >actually had anyone try doing that sort of extensive test.

              Heck no. I can't recall if we had time to complete a long/hard game
              before initial ship (I seem to recall that I was proving to QA that
              it could be done, but then lost interest once the game shipped).

              But I'm a big believer in saving, and wonder why some games make it so hard.
              --

              David Dunham A Sharp, LLC
              Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://a-sharp.com
              Efficiency is intelligent laziness.
            • Alexander G. M. Smith
              ... Only Brian and one or two other customers actually need it. The economic truth about many games is that only bugs that affect most people are fixed. Some
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 14, 2004
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                David Dunham wrote on Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:47:01 -0800:
                > Heck no. I can't recall if we had time to complete a long/hard game
                > before initial ship (I seem to recall that I was proving to QA that
                > it could be done, but then lost interest once the game shipped).

                Only Brian and one or two other customers actually need it. The economic
                truth about many games is that only bugs that affect most people are fixed.
                Some games even then get released with lots of bugs, patches, etc. Though
                with the drift towards console gaming and the console manufacturers approval
                testing, that's less of a problem now.

                > But I'm a big believer in saving, and wonder why some games make it so hard.

                To stretch out games without much content? Guess that's why you were able
                to design in saving so easily :-)

                - Alex
              • Bryan Maloney
                ... were able ... The one-step save is one of my favorite buttonology features of KoDP. PS: I still have fun once in a while telling people about the game.
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 3, 2005
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                  --- In KingOfDragonPass@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander G. M. Smith"
                  <agmsmith@r...> wrote:


                  > To stretch out games without much content? Guess that's why you
                  were able
                  > to design in saving so easily :-)

                  The one-step save is one of my favorite buttonology features of KoDP.



                  PS: I still have fun once in a while telling people about the game.
                  The facet-mongers really boggle when I tell them that the resolution
                  is near-infinite, but the frame rate is about one per five minutes.
                • John Machin
                  ... Cheats? I know no cheats? -- John Machin Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All. - Athanasius Kircher, The Great Art of Knowledge .
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 3 9:08 PM
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                    Bryan:
                    > At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :)

                    Cheats? I know no cheats?

                    --
                    John Machin
                    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
                    - Athanasius Kircher, 'The Great Art of Knowledge'.
                  • Bryan Thexton
                    ... By that I mean I didn t go back to an older save just to avoid something I didn t like. i.e. No I know this heroquest is risky right now, but if doesn t
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 4 5:40 AM
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                      --- John Machin <trithemius@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > Bryan:
                      > > At long last, managed the long/hard/no cheat game :)
                      >
                      > Cheats? I know no cheats?
                      >
                      By that I mean I didn't go back to an older save just to avoid
                      something I didn't like. i.e. No "I know this heroquest is risky right
                      now, but if doesn't work out I'll just come back to this save and
                      re-write history"

                      >
                      >




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                    • Moah, platypus powaaa!
                      ... Some would say using your old saves if you failed at something to cancel your failure is cheating. Moah, platypus powaaa!
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 4 8:28 PM
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                        John Machin wrote:

                        > Cheats? I know no cheats?

                        Some would say using your old saves if you failed at
                        something to cancel your failure is cheating.

                        Moah, platypus powaaa!
                      • John Machin
                        On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 05:28:25 +0100, Moah, platypus powaaa! ... Hrm, looks like I am a stinking cheat then. Although I often like to see what happens if I do
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 4 9:18 PM
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                          On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 05:28:25 +0100, Moah, platypus powaaa!
                          <moah@...> wrote:
                          > Some would say using your old saves if you failed at
                          > something to cancel your failure is cheating.

                          Hrm, looks like I am a stinking cheat then. Although I often like to
                          see what happens if I do things differently/wrong-on-purpose,
                          especially with the non-random events. :)
                          Sadly my last game didn't go long enough for Kallyr to get up to much.

                          --
                          John Machin
                          "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
                          - Athanasius Kircher, 'The Great Art of Knowledge'.
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