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  • Bryan Thexton
    After something like two years, I still enjoy playing KoDP, although I don t play it as often as I did before. Anyway, I just finished a long game with what
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 17, 2001
      After something like two years, I still enjoy playing
      KoDP, although I don't play it as often as I did
      before.

      Anyway, I just finished a long game with what was
      easily my most succesful clan yet. I took all the
      lessons I've learned, chose a strong openning clan
      configuration, and ran through a couple of set ups to
      get one that felt good (had no trickster or lankhor my
      leaders, but had a good chief and its geography was
      decent). The clan thrived from the beginning beyond
      anything I've ever had in a hard game before. I
      finished the game with well over 1000 goods, although
      I kept trying to give them away, and herds of cattle
      well in excess of our needs (I think we finished with
      around 1500 for about 1100 clansfolk, but it was
      higher until I gave away generously right at the end).
      In short, we knew that the clan was secure, no matter
      what happened to tribe and kingdom.

      There was only one small fly in the ointment: shortage
      of children. We'd recovered to the point that the
      ring wasn't talking about it, but their numbers were
      still low.

      I think part of the problem may have been the many
      years that we had the Rattle of Orlanth, which helps
      some children grow up faster and become mighty
      warriors. I think our children count probably went
      through a normal dip, made worse by some portion of
      them growing up faster. Of course, what tipped us
      over the edge was that one year we had an omen telling
      us that few kids would be born, and not long
      afterwards we had an event that was new to
      me--foreigners camped out in our Ernalda shrine, and
      the great goddess took our fertility away from us for
      two years. For those two years, despite putting magic
      into children and activating the bless children
      blessing, we were babyless.

      By the end of that drought, our kid count was really
      low. We traded away Orlanth's Rattle, and kept
      pumping magic into kids. We never did manage to get a
      Kero Finn shrine, despite sending annual exploration
      trips to Kero Finn once this whole situation started.

      So, finally my question: The one thing that we didn't
      really try was to heavily recruit new farmers in hopes
      that they'd bring in a higher percentage of kids. I
      know the advises that vagabond's and scavengers don't
      usually bring many children, but has anyone noticed if
      of the other options one bring in a higher percentage
      of kids than do the rest? Just looking to have a more
      in depth plan for the next clan in case they hit this
      problem.

      --Bryan

      PS. Anyone else noticed that Elmali clans seem to
      capture horses more often? I think this was an
      important brick in my clan's success!

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    • David Dunham
      ... OK, this seems to be a fairly common report. I d looked at the code before and seen nothing wrong. I finally got some time to analyze this with the
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 11, 2002
        At 14:46 +0000 01-12-18, Bryan wrote:

        > There was only one small fly in the ointment: shortage
        > of children. We'd recovered to the point that the
        > ring wasn't talking about it, but their numbers were
        > still low.

        OK, this seems to be a fairly common report. I'd looked at the code
        before and seen nothing wrong.

        I finally got some time to analyze this with the debugger, and it
        looks like the children calculation is correct, but simply not
        working. This suggests a compiler problem. I'm looking at it right
        now on a Macintosh. Have people seen the "no children" problem under
        Windows too?

        I think several reports suggest that it started in version 1.6. There
        don't seem to be any relevant changes, though it's possible I
        switched Macintosh compilers at that time.
        --

        David Dunham A Sharp david@...
        Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://a-sharp.com
        Spare no expense to make everything as economical as possible --Samuel Goldwyn
      • Bryan Thexton
        Dave; It is possible that this is a feature not a bug....perhaps after I made the comment others chimed in, and this just happened to be after 1.6 came out.
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 12, 2002
          Dave;

          It is possible that this is a feature not a
          bug....perhaps after I made the comment others chimed
          in, and this just happened to be after 1.6 came out.

          For example, a common pattern that I have is early in
          the game I have a surplus of kids (adults being killed
          off by all the raids, and initiating 20 kids a year
          while having 33 babies, etc). So I put no magic at
          all into children for years. Then, suddenly, a lot of
          those children grow up, and I either initiate 110 kids
          one year, or get the surge spread over a few years.
          Suddenly I have more adults than kids, and I'm losing
          less adults to warfare. If the program tracks the
          rough age distribution of the adults, perhaps those
          newly initiated adults aren't having many babies yet,
          and if I'm too busy or distracted or stretched to put
          magic into helping them, well, it will leave the clan
          vulnerable to anything that hurts our fertility or
          kills off many kids.

          --Bryan


          --- David Dunham <david@...> wrote:
          > At 14:46 +0000 01-12-18, Bryan wrote:
          >
          > > There was only one small fly in the ointment:
          > shortage
          > > of children. We'd recovered to the point that
          > the
          > > ring wasn't talking about it, but their numbers
          > were
          > > still low.
          >
          > OK, this seems to be a fairly common report. I'd
          > looked at the code
          > before and seen nothing wrong.
          >
          > I finally got some time to analyze this with the
          > debugger, and it
          > looks like the children calculation is correct, but
          > simply not
          > working. This suggests a compiler problem. I'm
          > looking at it right
          > now on a Macintosh. Have people seen the "no
          > children" problem under
          > Windows too?
          >
          > I think several reports suggest that it started in
          > version 1.6. There
          > don't seem to be any relevant changes, though it's
          > possible I
          > switched Macintosh compilers at that time.
          > --
          >
          > David Dunham A Sharp david@...
          > Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://a-sharp.com
          > Spare no expense to make everything as economical as
          > possible --Samuel Goldwyn
          >


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        • David Dunham
          Bryan ... No, I m pretty certain it s a bug. The calculation is coming out as zero for no good reason, and I m trying to determine if I need to do Windows
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 13, 2002
            Bryan

            > It is possible that this is a feature not a
            > bug....perhaps after I made the comment others chimed
            > in, and this just happened to be after 1.6 came out.

            No, I'm pretty certain it's a bug. The calculation is coming out as
            zero for no good reason, and I'm trying to determine if I need to do
            Windows debugging as well (I've updated the development software and
            hope I don't have to go back to the original).

            Then again, it looks like I still have the original Macintosh
            compiler, so I don't know what would have changed in 1.6.

            > If the program tracks the
            > rough age distribution of the adults, perhaps those
            > newly initiated adults aren't having many babies yet,
            > and if I'm too busy or distracted or stretched to put
            > magic into helping them, well, it will leave the clan
            > vulnerable to anything that hurts our fertility or
            > kills off many kids.

            The economic model does track the ages of children (so children magic
            or a child-preventing curse won't affect your adult population for 15
            years), but not adults.
            --

            David Dunham A Sharp david@...
            Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://a-sharp.com
            Spare no expense to make everything as economical as possible --Samuel Goldwyn
          • Milos Rasic
            ... Now that I think of it, I have seen the bug in my Windows version. I thought it was due to some religious mistake I made.
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 13, 2002

               

              >No, I'm pretty certain it's a bug. The calculation is coming out as
              >zero for no good reason, and I'm trying to determine if I need to do
              >Windows debugging as well (I've updated the development software and
              >hope I don't have to go back to the original).

              >Then again, it looks like I still have the original Macintosh
              >compiler, so I don't know what would have changed in 1.6.

               

              Now that I think of it, I have seen the bug in my Windows version. I thought it was due to some religious mistake I made.

            • David Dunham
              Bryan (and others) have reported ... I have reproduced this problem on a Macintosh, and have a beta version of an update. We haven t had the chance to do much
              Message 6 of 6 , May 25, 2002
                Bryan (and others) have reported

                > There was only one small fly in the ointment: shortage
                > of children. We'd recovered to the point that the
                > ring wasn't talking about it, but their numbers were
                > still low.

                I have reproduced this problem on a Macintosh, and have a beta
                version of an update.

                We haven't had the chance to do much QA, but
                <http://homepage.mac.com/asharp/KoDP-1.7b1.sit> has a test version of
                a fix. If you get the chance, please let me know if it helps.

                Windows users (which I think includes Bryan), I haven't forgotten
                you. I just don't have a Windows machine in my office these days, so
                it will take a bit longer to compile the changes.
                --

                David Dunham A Sharp david@...
                Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://a-sharp.com
                Spare no expense to make everything as economical as possible --Samuel Goldwyn
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