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Re: cd

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  • maria daggett
    last batch will go out tommorrow in monday s mail. ....... m ... Known World Choir Known World Choir Messages In This Digest (7 Messages) 1a.
    Message 1 of 30 , May 4, 2008
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      last batch will go out tommorrow in monday's mail.
      .......

      m




      --- KWChoir@yahoogroups.com wrote:


      ---------------------------------
      Known World Choir Known World Choir

      Messages In This Digest (7
      Messages)

      1a.
      Greetings From: Gwenfain Verch Gorwan

      1b.
      Re: Greetings From: mary-flo@...


      2a.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all chill From:
      corun@...
      2b.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all chill From:
      Diane
      2c.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all chill From:
      Jane Murphy
      2d.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all chill From:
      lleehill@...
      2e.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all chill From:
      mary-flo@...
      View All Topics | Create New Topic

      Messages
      1a.
      Greetings Posted
      by: "Gwenfain Verch Gorwan"
      gwenfain@...
      gwenfain Sat May 3, 2008
      11:32 am (PDT) Well i was
      pondering if i should just lurk for a bit or hop right
      in. I
      decided to hop in ()8) My name is Gwenfain Verch
      Gorwan from Santa
      Monica, CA (Kingdom of Caid) I sing either soprano or
      alto and am
      trying really really hard to get Pensics this year. I
      look forward to
      seeing the music for this year at least so I can learn
      some new songs.
      I am currently working in my family business and in my
      spare time am
      writing a novel.
      Well that is all there is about me. Just wanted to
      introduce myself and
      hope to meet some of y'all at Pennsic this year ()8)


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      (9)

      1b.
      Re: Greetings
      Posted by: "mary-flo@..."
      mary-flo@...
      wardermum Sat May 3,
      2008 9:19 pm (PDT)
      This'll be my first Pennsic too! Can't wait!!

      Life is short!
      Forgive quickly!
      Love truly,
      Laugh uncontrollably.

      Love life, live gratefully,

      Blessings and hugs,

      Mary-florence

      www.mary-flo.com <http://www.mary-flo.com/>
      From: "Gwenfain Verch Gorwan"
      <gwenfain@...>
      Reply-To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
      To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [KWChoir] Greetings
      Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 18:32:31 -0000


      Well i was pondering if i should just lurk for a bit
      or hop right
      in. I
      decided to hop in ()8) My name is Gwenfain Verch
      Gorwan from
      Santa
      Monica, CA (Kingdom of Caid) I sing either soprano or
      alto and am
      trying really really hard to get Pensics this year. I
      look
      forward to
      seeing the music for this year at least so I can learn
      some new
      songs.
      I am currently working in my family business and in my
      spare time
      am
      writing a novel.
      Well that is all there is about me. Just wanted to
      introduce
      myself and
      hope to meet some of y'all at Pennsic this year ()8)


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      2a.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill Posted by:
      "corun@..."
      corun@...
      corun2 Sat May 3,
      2008 11:49 am (PDT) On
      Friday, 18 April Erlan wrote:

      >The last batch will go out Mon/Tues.... you should
      all receive some
      >CD's by the end of the week.

      And here it is May 3 and I still have not gotten mine.
      Anyone else
      still missing theirs? Erlan, you owe me all of the CDs
      and I would
      appreciate an answer and direct response to this
      situation.

      Corun


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      2b.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill Posted by: "Diane"
      diane19128@...
      celaena_kasandrenos
      Sat May 3, 2008 5:36 pm (PDT)
      --- In KWChoir@yahoogroups.com, corun@... wrote:
      >
      > And here it is May 3 and I still have not gotten
      mine. Anyone else
      > still missing theirs?

      I have not gotten mine (just Pennsic 36).

      Celaena


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      2c.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill Posted by: "Jane Murphy"
      leoasc@...
      ladyjane1533 Sat
      May 3, 2008 6:34 pm (PDT)
      I'm still missing mine as well. I ordered the whole
      set.

      Jane

      corun@... wrote:
      >
      > On Friday, 18 April Erlan wrote:
      >
      > >The last batch will go out Mon/Tues.... you should
      all receive some
      > >CD's by the end of the week.
      >
      > And here it is May 3 and I still have not gotten
      mine. Anyone else
      > still missing theirs? Erlan, you owe me all of the
      CDs and I would
      > appreciate an answer and direct response to this
      situation.
      >
      > Corun
      >
      >


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      2d.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill Posted by: "lleehill@..."
      lleehill@...
      lyonsong1 Sat
      May 3, 2008 7:57 pm (PDT) I
      have not received mine either.? I also ordered the
      whole set.?

      Linda

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jane Murphy <leoasc@...>
      To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 6:34 pm
      Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill

      I'm still missing mine as well. I ordered the whole
      set.

      Jane

      corun@... wrote:

      On Friday, 18 April Erlan wrote:

      >The last batch will go out Mon/Tues.... you should
      all receive some
      >CD's by the end of the week.

      And here it is May 3 and I still have not gotten mine.
      Anyone else
      still missing theirs? Erlan, you owe me all of the CDs
      and I would
      appreciate an answer and direct response to this
      situation.

      Corun


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      (7)

      2e.
      Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill Posted by:
      "mary-flo@..."
      mary-flo@...
      wardermum Sat May 3,
      2008 9:21 pm (PDT)
      Gee Corun, just how many of those puppies did you
      reproduce?!
      Quite an undertaking!

      Life is short!
      Forgive quickly!
      Love truly,
      Laugh uncontrollably.

      Love life, live gratefully,

      Blessings and hugs,

      Mary-florence

      www.mary-flo.com <http://www.mary-flo.com/>
      From: corun@...
      Reply-To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
      To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: Pray tell the CD.. all
      chill
      Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 14:48:15 -0400


      On Friday, 18 April Erlan wrote:

      >The last batch will go out Mon/Tues.... you should
      all receive
      some
      >CD's by the end of the week.

      And here it is May 3 and I still have not gotten mine.
      Anyone
      else
      still missing theirs? Erlan, you owe me all of the CDs
      and I
      would
      appreciate an answer and direct response to this
      situation.

      Corun


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    • Karen Kasper
      I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a month ago. And in
      Message 2 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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        I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a month ago. And in January, and in November, and in September...
         
        Anyone else get theirs?
         
        Arianna of Wynthrope


        maria daggett <erlannordenskald@...> wrote on May 4:
        last batch will go out tommorrow in monday's mail.
        .......

        m
        .
        ,_._,___



        Karen Kasper

      • corun@medievalist.org
        ... Not me, nor has Erlan responded to any of my entreaties. And I too paid for all five back in August. I have also received several private emails from
        Message 3 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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          Arianna of Wynthrope wrote:
          >
          >I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a month ago. And in January, and in November, and in September...
          >
          > Anyone else get theirs?
          >
          > Arianna of Wynthrope

          Not me, nor has Erlan responded to any of my entreaties. And I too paid for all five back in August. I have also received several private emails from people who have not received any cds, nor have I seen anyone write here that they have received them, which sadly leads me to believe that none have ever been delivered.

          Corun
        • HEL
          I ordered and paid for two sets and still haven t received them. The repeated messages that they will all be sent out are annoying when they don t arrive, as
          Message 4 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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            I ordered and paid for two sets and still haven't received them.

            The repeated messages that they will all be sent out are annoying when they don't arrive, as are the nonresponse to emails.

            I would like a firm date on when they will actually be sent and an email or other notice when they have been sent. Even an email sent to this list with the names of who should expect theirs would be better than nothing.

            Has anyone actually received their copies?

            HEL

            --- On Thu, 5/15/08, corun@... <corun@...> wrote:
            From: corun@... <corun@...>
            Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: cd
            To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, May 15, 2008, 8:16 AM

            Arianna of Wynthrope wrote:
            >
            >I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a month ago. And in January, and in November, and in September...
            >
            > Anyone else get theirs?
            >
            > Arianna of Wynthrope

            Not me, nor has Erlan responded to any of my entreaties. And I too paid for all five back in August. I have also received several private emails from people who have not received any cds, nor have I seen anyone write here that they have received them, which sadly leads me to believe that none have ever been delivered.

            Corun

          • Jane M.
            I, too, ordered and paid for all five back in September. I still have received none. Jane ... in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago.
            Message 5 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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              I, too, ordered and paid for all five back in September. I still have
              received none.

              Jane


              --- In KWChoir@yahoogroups.com, Karen Kasper <arianna_wyn@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back
              in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a
              month ago. And in January, and in November, and in September...
              >
              > Anyone else get theirs?
              >
              > Arianna of Wynthrope
              >
              >
              > maria daggett <erlannordenskald@...> wrote on May 4:
              > last batch will go out tommorrow in monday's mail.
              > .......
              >
              > m
              >
              >
              > .
              >
              > ,_._,___
              >
              >
              > Karen Kasper
              >
            • KCMalone3@aol.com
              I ordered one and have not received it as well. Anna ************** Wondering what s for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
              Message 6 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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                I ordered one and have not received it as well. 
                Anna




                **************
                Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
                (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
              • Isabel1443
                Paid for 2 CD s, none received. Very disappointed. Isabel HEL wrote: I ordered and paid for two sets and still haven t received
                Message 7 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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                  Paid for 2 CD's, none received.
                  Very disappointed.
                  Isabel

                  HEL <helthehorrible@...> wrote:
                  I ordered and paid for two sets and still haven't received them.

                  The repeated messages that they will all be sent out are annoying when they don't arrive, as are the nonresponse to emails.

                  I would like a firm date on when they will actually be sent and an email or other notice when they have been sent. Even an email sent to this list with the names of who should expect theirs would be better than nothing.

                  Has anyone actually received their copies?

                  HEL

                  --- On Thu, 5/15/08, corun@medievalist. org <corun@medievalist. org> wrote:
                  From: corun@medievalist. org <corun@medievalist. org>
                  Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: cd
                  To: KWChoir@yahoogroups .com
                  Date: Thursday, May 15, 2008, 8:16 AM

                  Arianna of Wynthrope wrote:
                  >
                  >I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a month ago. And in January, and in November, and in September...
                  >
                  > Anyone else get theirs?
                  >
                  > Arianna of Wynthrope

                  Not me, nor has Erlan responded to any of my entreaties. And I too paid for all five back in August. I have also received several private emails from people who have not received any cds, nor have I seen anyone write here that they have received them, which sadly leads me to believe that none have ever been delivered.

                  Corun


                • lleehill@aol.com
                  I also paid for the set of 5 and have not received them.? I agree that?a list should be posted of those who sent in money and anyone who has already received
                  Message 8 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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                    I also paid for the set of 5 and have not received them. 

                    I agree that a list should be posted of those who sent in money and anyone who has already received CDs so that we all know the scope of this project.  I agree with Corun that it is very troublesome that the "status emails" each say something to the effect that "the balance" of the CDs will be sent out later this week or at the beginning of the next week which implies that some have been previously sent, yet no one has acknowledged receiving any CDs.  I feel very badly for Erlan (whom I have never met), who must be feeling horribly embarrassed at this point, but this has gone on too long and the truth of the situation needs to come out.   

                    Linda/Eden


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Isabel1443 <belight4@...>
                    To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, 15 May 2008 6:25 am
                    Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: cd

                    Paid for 2 CD's, none received.
                    Very disappointed.
                    Isabel

                    HEL <helthehorrible@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    I ordered and paid for two sets and still haven't received them.

                    The repeated messages that they will all be sent out are annoying when they don't arrive, as are the nonresponse to emails.

                    I would like a firm date on when they will actually be sent and an email or other notice when they have been sent. Even an email sent to this list with the names of who should expect theirs would be better than nothing.

                    Has anyone actually received their copies?

                    HEL

                    --- On Thu, 5/15/08, corun@medievalist. org <corun@medievalist. org> wrote:
                    From: corun@medievalist. org <corun@medievalist. org>
                    Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: cd
                    To: KWChoir@yahoogroups .com
                    Date: Thursday, May 15, 2008, 8:16 AM

                    Arianna of Wynthrope wrote:
                    >
                    >I have not received these CDs (I ordered and paid for all five back in August) that were supposed to have been mailed 10 days ago. And a month ago. And in January, and in November, and in September...
                    >
                    > Anyone else get theirs?
                    >
                    > Arianna of Wynthrope

                    Not me, nor has Erlan responded to any of my entreaties. And I too paid for all five back in August. I have also received several private emails from people who have not received any cds, nor have I seen anyone write here that they have received them, which sadly leads me to believe that none have ever been delivered.

                    Corun


                  • Elizabeth Dowling
                    To change the subject slightly... This year was a busy, but not fun year for myself, and I didn t have enough chance to sing much. Also, my local singing
                    Message 9 of 30 , May 15, 2008
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                      To change the subject slightly...
                      This year was a busy, but not fun year for myself, and I didn't have
                      enough chance to sing much. Also, my local singing group has had
                      difficulties: mostly the other people had happy difficulties, which have
                      gotten in the way of regular singing get-togethers. But the result is
                      that music, which needs regular practice, was not much practiced as a
                      group activity in my local group and Barony this year. And, I got to
                      thinking about how rare music is, and how difficult it is to encourage
                      Period music in S.C.A.

                      There are no "War Points" or other awards for music, as with many other
                      A&S activities, even the "competitions," which are documentation driven,
                      and do not give any credit for a mixed group of beginning and advanced
                      musicians, do not give performance opportunities in S.C.A. (Personally,
                      I do not find competition educational; our group did it once, and
                      afterwards people just dropped out.) Bardic circles always favor solos
                      and modern compositions, usually chanted epic poems, in a "Period"
                      style. Often, outdoor demos attract audience to fighters, but there is
                      too much background noise to hear musicians who sing or play acoustic
                      instruments. (Our only small success recently was at an indoor demo.)
                      And those who love competition the most tend to be the men, who won't
                      come within a mile of any singing activities in my Barony (which limits
                      the number of parts that are possible to sing).

                      Therefore, I've really really been looking forward to singing at this
                      Pennsic with others who appreciate the beauty and variety of Period
                      music. At the very least, I hope that the Pennsic Choir is on for this
                      year, and perhaps even more opportunities to do Period vocal music at
                      Pennsic.

                      I've met Erlan, who is a fine conductor, but I am hoping that any CD
                      problems can be resolved very very soon so that everybody wants to come
                      to Pennsic and sing Period music together (and forget that some have
                      waited a long time for the CDs). This is for a totally selfish reason;
                      I am disheartened locally, and hope that the musicians can stand up and
                      be counted, and show the realms that the S.C.A. is an educational,
                      non-profit organization and not a fight club.
                      Lady Elizabeth of Gwyntarian, mka Elizabeth Dowling
                    • Terri Garvey
                      Well said, Lady Elizabeth - Lady Tessa the Amnesiac
                      Message 10 of 30 , May 16, 2008
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                        Well said, Lady Elizabeth - Lady Tessa the Amnesiac
                      • Eilionora Ghorm
                        Lady Elizabeth, In response to your heartfelt letter below, I just wanted to say that I have run into many of the same obstacles you mentioned in my recent
                        Message 11 of 30 , May 19, 2008
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                          Lady Elizabeth,

                          In response to your heartfelt letter below, I just wanted to say that I have run into many of the same obstacles you mentioned in my recent attempts to bring choral music back into my local group.  In fact, one of the reasons I joined the SCA in the first place was to participate in the choir and sing period pieces.

                          Imagine my dismay, then, when I was told that my Barony's choir hadn't existed for ten years!  I was very disappointed to hear this, and set right to work at breathing life back into the defunct choir.  I now direct (and sing with) a small but dedicated group of gentles.  However, life often gets in the way of regular rehearsal times and we have found it difficult to find appropriate performance venues.  Especially now that winter is over, most (if not all) of the upcoming events we have will be outside... not the ideal setting for choral music at all.

                          I hope that in the future, still more efforts can be made to facilitate choral performances in the SCA.

                          Cheers,
                          Eilionóra


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Elizabeth Dowling <ejdowling@...>
                          To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:05:57 PM
                          Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music

                          To change the subject slightly...
                          This year was a busy, but not fun year for myself, and I didn't have
                          enough chance to sing much. Also, my local singing group has had
                          difficulties: mostly the other people had happy difficulties, which have
                          gotten in the way of regular singing get-togethers. But the result is
                          that music, which needs regular practice, was not much practiced as a
                          group activity in my local group and Barony this year. And, I got to
                          thinking about how rare music is, and how difficult it is to encourage
                          Period music in S.C.A.

                          There are no "War Points" or other awards for music, as with many other
                          A&S activities, even the "competitions, " which are documentation driven,
                          and do not give any credit for a mixed group of beginning and advanced
                          musicians, do not give performance opportunities in S.C.A. (Personally,
                          I do not find competition educational; our group did it once, and
                          afterwards people just dropped out.) Bardic circles always favor solos
                          and modern compositions, usually chanted epic poems, in a "Period"
                          style. Often, outdoor demos attract audience to fighters, but there is
                          too much background noise to hear musicians who sing or play acoustic
                          instruments. (Our only small success recently was at an indoor demo.)
                          And those who love competition the most tend to be the men, who won't
                          come within a mile of any singing activities in my Barony (which limits
                          the number of parts that are possible to sing).

                          Therefore, I've really really been looking forward to singing at this
                          Pennsic with others who appreciate the beauty and variety of Period
                          music. At the very least, I hope that the Pennsic Choir is on for this
                          year, and perhaps even more opportunities to do Period vocal music at
                          Pennsic.

                          I've met Erlan, who is a fine conductor, but I am hoping that any CD
                          problems can be resolved very very soon so that everybody wants to come
                          to Pennsic and sing Period music together (and forget that some have
                          waited a long time for the CDs). This is for a totally selfish reason;
                          I am disheartened locally, and hope that the musicians can stand up and
                          be counted, and show the realms that the S.C.A. is an educational,
                          non-profit organization and not a fight club.
                          Lady Elizabeth of Gwyntarian, mka Elizabeth Dowling


                        • Elizabeth Dowling
                          Lady Eilionora, Greetings, No, I m not the best recruiter, but yes, I did try to breathe some life into a local effort. I ll still try next year, I hope...
                          Message 12 of 30 , May 19, 2008
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                            Lady Eilionora, Greetings,
                            No, I'm not the best recruiter, but yes, I did try to breathe some life
                            into a local effort. I'll still try next year, I hope... Right now,
                            many locals fear the falling numbers at events (mostly due to gas
                            prices, but also many conflicting engagements), so they want to stick
                            with the tried and true competitive sports. I had some new people come
                            to rehearsals last year who stopped coming because my own local group
                            didn't participate much... then I got a terrible cold in the fall, then
                            I had extended family difficulties in the winter, etc. I continued to
                            advertise rehearsals as much as possible. But, I couldn't expect
                            everybody else to be as interested as I am, and some are very much
                            disinterested in music. My daughter and I did a little bit of music at
                            a recent demo; so far it's just going to be us for the time being. (I
                            never wanted to do solos, or even duets, but I'll do what I can.) A
                            year ago, we had several people performing at events, but the interest
                            has fallen off greatly. Well, I'll still keep hoping.
                            Cheers,
                            Elizabeth

                            Eilionora Ghorm wrote:
                            > Lady Elizabeth,
                            >
                            > In response to your heartfelt letter below, I just wanted to say that
                            > I have run into many of the same obstacles you mentioned in my recent
                            > attempts to bring choral music back into my local group. In fact, one
                            > of the reasons I joined the SCA in the first place was to participate
                            > in the choir and sing period pieces.
                            >
                            > Imagine my dismay, then, when I was told that my Barony's choir hadn't
                            > existed for ten years! I was very disappointed to hear this, and set
                            > right to work at breathing life back into the defunct choir. I now
                            > direct (and sing with) a small but dedicated group of gentles.
                            > However, life often gets in the way of regular rehearsal times and we
                            > have found it difficult to find appropriate performance venues.
                            > Especially now that winter is over, most (if not all) of the upcoming
                            > events we have will be outside... not the ideal setting for choral
                            > music at all.
                            >
                            > I hope that in the future, still more efforts can be made to
                            > facilitate choral performances in the SCA.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Eilionóra
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: Elizabeth Dowling <ejdowling@...>
                            > To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:05:57 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music
                            >
                            > To change the subject slightly...
                            > This year was a busy, but not fun year for myself, and I didn't have
                            > enough chance to sing much. Also, my local singing group has had
                            > difficulties: mostly the other people had happy difficulties, which have
                            > gotten in the way of regular singing get-togethers. But the result is
                            > that music, which needs regular practice, was not much practiced as a
                            > group activity in my local group and Barony this year. And, I got to
                            > thinking about how rare music is, and how difficult it is to encourage
                            > Period music in S.C.A.
                            >
                            > There are no "War Points" or other awards for music, as with many other
                            > A&S activities, even the "competitions, " which are documentation driven,
                            > and do not give any credit for a mixed group of beginning and advanced
                            > musicians, do not give performance opportunities in S.C.A. (Personally,
                            > I do not find competition educational; our group did it once, and
                            > afterwards people just dropped out.) Bardic circles always favor solos
                            > and modern compositions, usually chanted epic poems, in a "Period"
                            > style. Often, outdoor demos attract audience to fighters, but there is
                            > too much background noise to hear musicians who sing or play acoustic
                            > instruments. (Our only small success recently was at an indoor demo.)
                            > And those who love competition the most tend to be the men, who won't
                            > come within a mile of any singing activities in my Barony (which limits
                            > the number of parts that are possible to sing).
                            >
                            > Therefore, I've really really been looking forward to singing at this
                            > Pennsic with others who appreciate the beauty and variety of Period
                            > music. At the very least, I hope that the Pennsic Choir is on for this
                            > year, and perhaps even more opportunities to do Period vocal music at
                            > Pennsic.
                            >
                            > I've met Erlan, who is a fine conductor, but I am hoping that any CD
                            > problems can be resolved very very soon so that everybody wants to come
                            > to Pennsic and sing Period music together (and forget that some have
                            > waited a long time for the CDs). This is for a totally selfish reason;
                            > I am disheartened locally, and hope that the musicians can stand up and
                            > be counted, and show the realms that the S.C.A. is an educational,
                            > non-profit organization and not a fight club.
                            > Lady Elizabeth of Gwyntarian, mka Elizabeth Dowling
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Karen Kasper
                            My Lady Eilionóra, Congratulations on reviving your barony s choir! I have directed choirs in two baronies, and I know what a difficult task it can be to keep
                            Message 13 of 30 , May 20, 2008
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                              My Lady Eilionóra,
                               
                              Congratulations on reviving your barony's choir! I have directed choirs in two baronies, and I know what a difficult task it can be to keep people motivated and coming back to rehearsals every week.
                               
                              May I make a suggestion regarding performance venues? While not every event is suitable for a full-blown concert, my choirs have enjoyed performing for baronial and kingdom courts. We will sometimes sing 3 or 4 pieces for the audience while they wait for court to start; since they're sitting there and bored anyway, even those who aren't fans of medieval music usually welcome our performance. Then we sing a short piece for a processional when the dignitaries walk to their thrones. This requires advance arrangement with the baron/crown and a little coordination with the heralds, but my offers have seldom been refused and usually greeted with pleasure. Just last Saturday my choir sang for court at AEthelmearc War Practice, an event of about 1200 held at Cooper's Lake (site of Pennsic), and were thanked copiously by our Baroness and the Crown - not to mention being asked for sheet music by a gentle from another barony. :-)
                               
                              I have a bunch of pieces that are suitable for processionals (grand sounding, not too hard, and either short or with multiple cadences so we can conveniently stop whenever the procession ends). Let me know if you are interested and I can send you a list.
                               
                              Arianna of Wynthrope

                              Elizabeth Dowling <ejdowling@...> wrote:
                              Eilionora Ghorm wrote:
                              > Lady Elizabeth,
                              > I now direct (and sing with) a small but dedicated group of gentles.
                              > However, life often gets in the way of regular rehearsal times and we
                              > have found it difficult to find appropriate performance venues.
                              > Especially now that winter is over, most (if not all) of the upcoming
                              > events we have will be outside... not the ideal setting for choral
                              > music at all.
                              .




                              Karen Kasper

                            • wendy@creekstudios.com
                              I too will sadly not be able to make Pennsic this year, but I have been following this discussion with great interest as there are some ladies here in Caid
                              Message 14 of 30 , May 20, 2008
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                                I too will sadly not be able to make Pennsic this year, but I have been following this discussion with great interest as there are some ladies here in Caid that are attempting to start a kingdom choir. Would you mind sending me the list of processional songs as well? I'm sure the burgeoning Caidan choir could use them.

                                Thanks-


                                Finella Harper


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Karen Kasper [mailto:arianna_wyn@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 08:08 AM
                                To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music


                                I have a bunch of pieces that are suitable for processionals (grand sounding, not too hard, and either short or with multiple cadences so we can conveniently stop whenever the procession ends). Let me know if you are interested and I can send you a list.
                                 
                                Arianna of Wynthrope


                              • Karen Kasper
                                Pieces my choirs have used for processionals include: Deo Gratias – William Byrd, SATB Non Nobis Domine – attributed to William Byrd, SAB Psallite
                                Message 15 of 30 , May 20, 2008
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                                  Pieces my choirs have used for processionals include:
                                   
                                  Deo Gratias – William Byrd, SATB
                                  Non Nobis Domine – attributed to William Byrd, SAB
                                  Psallite Unigenito – Michael Praetorius, SATB (actually a Christmas piece, but that's probably not obvious to those not listening closely to the Latin lyrics)
                                  Alleluya Psallat – anonymous, Worcestor fragments, for three equal voices
                                  Alleluia – Hans Leo Hassler, SATB
                                   
                                  The first three are available for download from the Choral Wiki (aka Choral Public Domain Library) at www.cpdl.org. The first two pieces are both very easy, very short and good for newer choirs.
                                   
                                  Good luck!
                                   
                                  Arianna of Wynthrope


                                  wendy@... wrote:
                                  Would you mind sending me the list of processional songs as well? I'm sure the burgeoning Caidan choir could use them.
                                  Finella Harper
                                  .



                                  Karen Kasper

                                • Susan Stoltze
                                  Ariana, is Psallite Unigentio the piece we sang at Pennsic about three years ago? I think Anne was the KWC director that year ... It s one of the few choir
                                  Message 16 of 30 , May 20, 2008
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                                    Ariana, is "Psallite Unigentio" the piece we sang at Pennsic about three years ago?  I think Anne was the KWC director that year ...
                                     
                                    It's one of the few choir music songs that have stuck in my head.  I had NO idea it is considered Christmas music.  And I would have never considered it as a processional piece!
                                     
                                    Silly me - learn something new every day.
                                     
                                    Susanna Merrybegot

                                    Karen Kasper <arianna_wyn@...> wrote:
                                    Pieces my choirs have used for processionals include:
                                     
                                    Deo Gratias – William Byrd, SATB
                                    Non Nobis Domine – attributed to William Byrd, SAB
                                    Psallite Unigenito – Michael Praetorius, SATB (actually a Christmas piece, but that's probably not obvious to those not listening closely to the Latin lyrics)
                                    Alleluya Psallat – anonymous, Worcestor fragments, for three equal voices
                                    Alleluia – Hans Leo Hassler, SATB
                                     
                                    The first three are available for download from the Choral Wiki (aka Choral Public Domain Library) at www.cpdl.org. The first two pieces are both very easy, very short and good for newer choirs.
                                     
                                    Good luck!
                                     
                                    Arianna of Wynthrope


                                    wendy@creekstudios. com wrote:
                                    Would you mind sending me the list of processional songs as well? I'm sure the burgeoning Caidan choir could use them.
                                    Finella Harper
                                    .



                                    Karen Kasper

                                  • Karen Kasper
                                    ... Umm, could be, though I don t actually recall. You can listen to a recording of it here. And the translation on CPDL (which I think takes some liberties
                                    Message 17 of 30 , May 20, 2008
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                                      >Arianna, is "Psallite Unigenito" the piece we sang at Pennsic about three years ago?  I think Anne was the KWC director that year ...
                                       
                                      Umm, could be, though I don't actually recall.  You can listen to a recording of it here. And the translation on CPDL (which I think takes some liberties with the Latin) is:
                                      Sing your psalms to Christ,
                                      the begotten Son of God,
                                      sing your psalms to the Redeemer.
                                       
                                      To the Lord, the little Child
                                      lying in a manger bed.
                                      A small Child lies in the manger.
                                      All the blessed angels fall before Him and sing.
                                       
                                      If you're using it as a processional, you can stop before the German section for short processions, or go all the way to the end for long ones.
                                       
                                      Arianna


                                      Karen Kasper

                                    • Susan Stoltze
                                      Ha! That s the one! Thanks. Karen Kasper wrote: Arianna, is Psallite Unigenito the piece we sang at Pennsic about three
                                      Message 18 of 30 , May 20, 2008
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                                        Ha!  That's the one!  Thanks.

                                        Karen Kasper <arianna_wyn@...> wrote:
                                        >Arianna, is "Psallite Unigenito" the piece we sang at Pennsic about three years ago?  I think Anne was the KWC director that year ...
                                         
                                        Umm, could be, though I don't actually recall.  You can listen to a recording of it here. And the translation on CPDL (which I think takes some liberties with the Latin) is:
                                        Sing your psalms to Christ,
                                        the begotten Son of God,
                                        sing your psalms to the Redeemer.
                                         
                                        To the Lord, the little Child
                                        lying in a manger bed.
                                        A small Child lies in the manger.
                                        All the blessed angels fall before Him and sing.
                                         
                                        If you're using it as a processional, you can stop before the German section for short processions, or go all the way to the end for long ones.
                                         
                                        Arianna


                                        Karen Kasper

                                      • Wendy Creek
                                        Thank you so much for the list! Finella ... Thank you so much for the list! Finella On May 20, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Karen Kasper wrote: Pieces my choirs have used
                                        Message 19 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                          Thank you so much for the list!


                                          Finella


                                          On May 20, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Karen Kasper wrote:

                                          Pieces my choirs have used for processionals include:
                                           
                                          Deo Gratias – William Byrd, SATB
                                          Non Nobis Domine – attributed to William Byrd, SAB
                                          Psallite Unigenito – Michael Praetorius, SATB (actually a Christmas piece, but that's probably not obvious to those not listening closely to the Latin lyrics)
                                          Alleluya Psallat – anonymous, Worcestor fragments, for three equal voices
                                          Alleluia – Hans Leo Hassler, SATB
                                           
                                          The first three are available for download from the Choral Wiki (aka Choral Public Domain Library) at www.cpdl.org. The first two pieces are both very easy, very short and good for newer choirs.
                                           
                                          Good luck!
                                           
                                          Arianna of Wynthrope


                                        • Donald F. Harrington
                                          Some excellent points have been made. This is an issue I ve wrestled with for over 30 years in the SCA. Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good
                                          Message 20 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                            Some excellent points have been made. This is an issue I've wrestled
                                            with for over 30 years in the SCA.

                                            Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good opportunities for
                                            live music. You just have to be prepared for the facts that (1) the
                                            herald will start the Royals marching forward without giving you
                                            advance warning, usually 30 minutes or later than scheduled, and (2)
                                            they will hit the thrones at 10 seconds into your 90 second piece.

                                            I'd add "Alle Psallite" to the list of processionals, it's a bouncy piece.

                                            One trick is to get Royalty into your choir. I've been honored to
                                            have many Royal Peers in my singing groups, and they're a great
                                            resource for finding pomp and circumstance venues. They're also good
                                            at talking to other Royals and suggesting the use of live music.

                                            In general, though, I have not found the SCA to be a good venue for
                                            choral music. This is a bit of a rant, so take it with a grain of
                                            salt. Most people don't come to SCA events to hear choral music.
                                            They generally don't come to hear music at all. If they do think of
                                            music, they think of stuff from the movies (Knight's Tale, Excalibur,
                                            Henry V) or they think of filk songs about how wonderful SCA members
                                            are, much better than regular people. Music that requires active
                                            listening is seen as an intrusion on the fun they came to the event for.

                                            And they're right. People don't have to like early music to be in the
                                            SCA. They don't have to like choral music to be in the SCA. They can
                                            have the most award-studded careers in the SCA without ever liking it.

                                            That's the nature of the group. Choral music is a minority activity.
                                            That minority loves the music very much, and I think that's a
                                            beautiful thing. I think we should encourage music everywhere. But
                                            the SCA, as an organization, is not about fostering choral music.

                                            Ah, I'm depressed now, I'll stop ranting.

                                            Don Harrington
                                            Lazarus Artifex
                                          • Susan Stoltze
                                            OK, so we re a small, but dedicated and intense group. What fun! - Susanna Merrybegot Donald F. Harrington wrote: Some excellent
                                            Message 21 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                              OK, so we're a small, but dedicated and intense group.
                                               
                                              What fun!
                                               
                                              - Susanna Merrybegot

                                              "Donald F. Harrington" <donharrington@...> wrote:
                                              Some excellent points have been made. This is an issue I've wrestled
                                              with for over 30 years in the SCA.

                                              Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good opportunities for
                                              live music. You just have to be prepared for the facts that (1) the
                                              herald will start the Royals marching forward without giving you
                                              advance warning, usually 30 minutes or later than scheduled, and (2)
                                              they will hit the thrones at 10 seconds into your 90 second piece.

                                              I'd add "Alle Psallite" to the list of processionals, it's a bouncy piece.

                                              One trick is to get Royalty into your choir. I've been honored to
                                              have many Royal Peers in my singing groups, and they're a great
                                              resource for finding pomp and circumstance venues. They're also good
                                              at talking to other Royals and suggesting the use of live music.

                                              In general, though, I have not found the SCA to be a good venue for
                                              choral music. This is a bit of a rant, so take it with a grain of
                                              salt. Most people don't come to SCA events to hear choral music.
                                              They generally don't come to hear music at all. If they do think of
                                              music, they think of stuff from the movies (Knight's Tale, Excalibur,
                                              Henry V) or they think of filk songs about how wonderful SCA members
                                              are, much better than regular people. Music that requires active
                                              listening is seen as an intrusion on the fun they came to the event for.

                                              And they're right. People don't have to like early music to be in the
                                              SCA. They don't have to like choral music to be in the SCA. They can
                                              have the most award-studded careers in the SCA without ever liking it.

                                              That's the nature of the group. Choral music is a minority activity.
                                              That minority loves the music very much, and I think that's a
                                              beautiful thing. I think we should encourage music everywhere. But
                                              the SCA, as an organization, is not about fostering choral music.

                                              Ah, I'm depressed now, I'll stop ranting.

                                              Don Harrington
                                              Lazarus Artifex


                                            • celia.me@verizon.net
                                              We have a small group that likes to sing in our Barony. We have been getting together every tuesday night for about 5 years. We still haven t come to a
                                              Message 22 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                We have a small group that likes to sing in our Barony.  We have been getting together every tuesday night for about 5 years.  We still haven't come to a consensus as to what to sing, how and where to perform or even what kind of music we want to sing (period/folksy periodish/filk).  We still have fun singing together, collecting songs and spreading enthusiasm about music in the SCA.  We sing for ourselves and each other.  If anyone else wants us to sing for them, or listen when we do, great.  It's better if they join in.  Maybe someday we will find a focus, but until then we are having fun.  I have collected some songs in a book for a tavern event I have run for the last 3 years and here is the introduction, and my music philosophy-take from it what you will:
                                                I have prepared this book for the Golden Tygre Tavern event as my way of contributing to the tradition we know of as the folk song and the sense of community that comes from singing songs together.  It’s not about musical achievement, or scholarship, or even talent.  Every one of us has the ability to sing.  It may not be the kind of singing you want to put on display on stage, or even for yourself in a closed car.  Somehow, when there is a group singing along with you, suddenly, the sounds you make and the sounds of the others blend together and something magical happens.  Suddenly you are part of something bigger and more alive than you were before you opened your mouth.  People have a primal need to sing together.  All cultures do it.  In our 21st century lives, that method of community building has gone out of fashion.  We are told as very young children that either we “have it” or we don’t.  If we are amoungst the majority that don’t have ‘solo’ quality voices, we are encouraged to shut up and listen.  I don’t have a ‘solo’ voice, but when my song bends with yours, I feel connected to you and to the history and origins of the song.  I like that feeling.  Medieval people felt that way too.  In fact, singing their songs with you makes me feel more connected to them and their world.  There are other songs included here that have
                                                become part of the SCA tradition.  If we don’t sing these songs we will forget them, quicker that we can imagine.  Let’s keep their songs and our SCA songs alive by singing them....together.
                                                Adelaide Wanderer
                                                mka Celia Zanger
                                                ASXL
                                                On May 19, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Eilionora Ghorm wrote:


                                                Lady Elizabeth,

                                                In response to your heartfelt letter below, I just wanted to say that I have run into many of the same obstacles you mentioned in my recent attempts to bring choral music back into my local group.  In fact, one of the reasons I joined the SCA in the first place was to participate in the choir and sing period pieces.

                                                Imagine my dismay, then, when I was told that my Barony's choir hadn't existed for ten years!  I was very disappointed to hear this, and set right to work at breathing life back into the defunct choir.  I now direct (and sing with) a small but dedicated group of gentles.  However, life often gets in the way of regular rehearsal times and we have found it difficult to find appropriate performance venues.  Especially now that winter is over, most (if not all) of the upcoming events we have will be outside... not the ideal setting for choral music at all.

                                                I hope that in the future, still more efforts can be made to facilitate choral performances in the SCA.

                                                Cheers,
                                                Eilionóra


                                                ----- Original Message ----
                                                From: Elizabeth Dowling <ejdowling@deers- cry.com>
                                                To: KWChoir@yahoogroups .com
                                                Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:05:57 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music

                                                To change the subject slightly...
                                                This year was a busy, but not fun year for myself, and I didn't have 
                                                enough chance to sing much. Also, my local singing group has had
                                                difficulties: mostly the other people had happy difficulties, which have 
                                                gotten in the way of regular singing get-togethers. But the result is 
                                                that music, which needs regular practice, was not much practiced as a 
                                                group activity in my local group and Barony this year. And, I got to 
                                                thinking about how rare music is, and how difficult it is to encourage 
                                                Period music in S.C.A.

                                                There are no "War Points" or other awards for music, as with many other 
                                                A&S activities, even the "competitions, " which are documentation driven, 
                                                and do not give any credit for a mixed group of beginning and advanced 
                                                musicians, do not give performance opportunities in S.C.A. (Personally, 
                                                I do not find competition educational; our group did it once, and 
                                                afterwards people just dropped out.) Bardic circles always favor solos 
                                                and modern compositions, usually chanted epic poems, in a "Period" 
                                                style. Often, outdoor demos attract audience to fighters, but there is 
                                                too much background noise to hear musicians who sing or play acoustic 
                                                instruments. (Our only small success recently was at an indoor demo.) 
                                                And those who love competition the most tend to be the men, who won't 
                                                come within a mile of any singing activities in my Barony (which limits 
                                                the number of parts that are possible to sing). 

                                                Therefore, I've really really been looking forward to singing at this 
                                                Pennsic with others who appreciate the beauty and variety of Period 
                                                music. At the very least, I hope that the Pennsic Choir is on for this 
                                                year, and perhaps even more opportunities to do Period vocal music at 
                                                Pennsic. 

                                                I've met Erlan, who is a fine conductor, but I am hoping that any CD 
                                                problems can be resolved very very soon so that everybody wants to come 
                                                to Pennsic and sing Period music together (and forget that some have 
                                                waited a long time for the CDs). This is for a totally selfish reason; 
                                                I am disheartened locally, and hope that the musicians can stand up and 
                                                be counted, and show the realms that the S.C.A. is an educational,
                                                non-profit organization and not a fight club.
                                                Lady Elizabeth of Gwyntarian, mka Elizabeth Dowling 




                                              • Karen Kasper
                                                Donald F. Harrington wrote: Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good opportunities for live music. You just have
                                                Message 23 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                  "Donald F. Harrington" <donharrington@...> wrote:
                                                  Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good opportunities for live music. You just have to be prepared for the facts that (1) the
                                                  herald will start the Royals marching forward without giving you
                                                  advance warning, usually 30 minutes or later than scheduled, and (2)
                                                  they will hit the thrones at 10 seconds into your 90 second piece.
                                                  I deal with 1) by coordinating with the herald before court. We usually use the Kingdom name as our cue ("Blah blah blah, King and Queen of [Kingdom]!" -SING-).  We also agree that nobody starts walking until we start singing, though that only works because in my Kingdom, AEthelmearc, the herald is almost always at the front of the procession. Royalty usually forget if they're the ones in the lead. :-)
                                                  2) is why you want pieces that are short or have lots of cadences, but truthfully, we've never had anyone glare at us for going on a little longer than the procession. Last weekend we sang for the King & Queen of the East in addition to our own royalty, and the visiting Monarchs  stood at the foot of the dais smiling (King Konrad even "directed" us) until we were done 30 seconds later.

                                                  >I'd add "Alle Psallite" to the list of processionals, it's a bouncy piece.
                                                  Yup! Dame Ysolt pointed that omission out to me in a private email, and you're both right. It's short, easy, repetitive and it can stop on a dime.
                                                  As for most people not liking period choral music, well, that's why my choir chooses its venues carefully. We don't sing at feasts, where people will be annoyed that we're interrupting their conversation. If we do a full concert, it's at an event with an appropriate audience, like a dance and music schola, or in a separate room from the main activities so people can choose whether to attend or not. The only captive audience we inflict ourselves on is the people waiting for court to start, and by and large those people are pretty appreciative, at least in my Kingdom.
                                                  Arianna
                                                  .




                                                  Karen Kasper

                                                • Donald F. Harrington
                                                  I ve never done a processional without coordinating with the herald, and kids, neither should you. Arianna s advice is right on. I was just pointing out the
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                    I've never done a processional without coordinating with the herald, and kids, neither should you.  Arianna's advice is right on.
                                                     
                                                    I was just pointing out the sometimes-humorous, sometimes-frustrating things that can happen even with the best of plans.
                                                     
                                                    Don / Laz
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:36 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music

                                                    I deal with 1) by coordinating with the herald before court. We usually use the Kingdom name as our cue ("Blah blah blah, King and Queen of [Kingdom]!" -SING-).  We also agree that nobody starts walking until we start singing, though that only works because in my Kingdom, AEthelmearc, the herald is almost always at the front of the procession. Royalty usually forget if they're the ones in the lead. :-)

                                                    .

                                                  • Karen Kasper
                                                    Oh, yes, there s always some snafu, as Lazarus said. For our last event, the Barons were all processing in and sitting on the dais with the royalty because the
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                      Oh, yes, there's always some snafu, as Lazarus said. For our last event, the Barons were all processing in and sitting on the dais with the royalty because the event is so big. We have a special processional piece just for our Baron and Baroness, but when we finished singing the royalty's processional we were chagrined to find that the Baroness was already in and walking up the dais steps. We just looked at each other and shrugged. We were singing for her entrance, but OVER her herald and not her song... oh, well. There's always next time. :-) And the Baroness still sent us a thank you email after the event.
                                                       
                                                      FWIW, I also always ask the royalty ahead of time, usually by email, if they would like us to sing for their processionals. Sometimes they'll have a piper or other music already arranged, but if not, they've never turned us down. The Debatable Choir has been singing at events for 20 years, though, so we're pretty well known in our Kingdom. Sometimes we even get royalty asking us to sing for them, which is nice.
                                                       
                                                      Arianna


                                                      Karen Kasper

                                                    • corun@medievalist.org
                                                      ... And then there are those beauteous moments when you have a Queen who understands timing and a slow processional and manages to walk her way to her
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                        Arianaa W. wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >Oh, yes, there's always some snafu, as Lazarus said.

                                                        And then there are those beauteous moments when you have a Queen who understands timing and a slow processional and manages to walk her way to her Coronation at just the right pace to allow the (what was it Anne... 8... 10? and one lonely drummer) harp orchestra to play her processional piece all the way through.

                                                        Corun
                                                      • Anne of Carthew
                                                        Yep, Corun, we had some 8 harpers, I believe - and to make sure the melody really came through we added two recorders along with that drum. And Niobe, the
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                          Yep, Corun, we had some 8 harpers, I believe – and to make sure the melody really came through we added two recorders along with that drum.  And Niobe, the incoming queen, knew just how to make the most of that setting.    We, too, have a choral group that sometimes sings for courts.  Happily we have also had a few events around here (Kingdom A&S Festival and the occasional Performers Symposium) where we create an actual performance forum – a place where it is known that performances will take place and people who are in that area are indeed there to be an audience.  (I might have had some influence on that.  If you want something, you can sometimes make it happen.)  We’ve even succeeded in making the competition part go away in favor of just time for concerts.   This last KASF, we had soloists and small groups, also but no less than 3 choral groups from Atlantia performing.  (Too bad I was brain dead by that time of the day!)

                                                           

                                                          With respect to some of our other threads:  my choral group’s web page has PDFs and midis that may be of help to y’all, including your Christmas in August program.  Most of these are either CPDL pieces I’ve gathered into one place or files I’ve put together myself.  There are versions of Alle Psallite, Psallite Unigenito, and Victoria’s O Magnum – complete with midi files for the score and individual parts.  The Alleluia by Hassler (from his Angelus ad pastores) which I put together the last time I directed the Pennsic choir is also there.   Sorry, you’ll have to slog through some of the things that probably only our local group would do…  Anyway, the link is:   http://www.ravenstreet.org/Anne/alle_psallite/alle_psallite.htm    Enjoy! 

                                                           

                                                          Missy Anne

                                                          (Anne of Carthew)

                                                           

                                                           


                                                          From: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KWChoir@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of corun@...
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:26 PM
                                                          To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music

                                                           

                                                          Arianaa W. wrote:

                                                          >
                                                          >Oh, yes, there's always some snafu, as Lazarus said.

                                                          And then there are those beauteous moments when you have a Queen who understands timing and a slow processional and manages to walk her way to her Coronation at just the right pace to allow the (what was it Anne... 8... 10? and one lonely drummer) harp orchestra to play her processional piece all the way through.

                                                          Corun

                                                        • Elizabeth Dowling
                                                          Hey, I m not depressed about music, and don t mind a rant (I started it). But, I would disagree on one point: that people shouldn t have to experience real
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                            Hey, I'm not depressed about music, and don't mind a rant (I started
                                                            it). But, I would disagree on one point: that people shouldn't have to
                                                            experience real Medieval or Renaissance music (including both vocal and
                                                            instrumental). In Period, you couldn't go to a court or church without
                                                            hearing that music. To experience anything truly Period it is a
                                                            necessity. I find it grating to see everybody in a much better gown or
                                                            tunic than I wear, able to weave a dress from sheep to complete garb
                                                            (and getting a Laurel for it), but participate in modern music that has
                                                            no relationship (not even modal) to something in Period. If Jane Doe
                                                            does it in modern dress, that's O.K., but not Lady Joan Glover in garb
                                                            at an S.C.A. event.

                                                            Why do I feel this way? The extreme caution people take to be "Period"
                                                            in the martial activities, other A&S (not including music), and often,
                                                            for those who can afford it, even style of tent. If as many people in
                                                            S.C.A. who sported a Period Pavilion sang or played Period music, it
                                                            would be about the number of people who were involved in music in
                                                            Period. And hey, some music costs much less per year than those tents.
                                                            What it shows me is that most people do not join the S.C.A. to re-enact
                                                            Medieval life, but to re-enact a personna with limited interests that
                                                            would not have actually existed in Period.

                                                            But I am content with those who do not feel that they are capable of
                                                            learning to sing or play an instrument (although mostly they don't give
                                                            themselves enough practice). Still, such people should listen to the
                                                            real Period music, and welcome it at courts, feasts, and other
                                                            activities, because it is really Period, and the real music gives a
                                                            great deal of pleasure. I think the reason they won't listen to the
                                                            music is that an attitude of anti-Period music has been
                                                            institutionalized in the S.C.A., because Period music is seen as somehow
                                                            denying the creativity of the Bardic music. In the A&S criteria for
                                                            most art, one must have an innovative or creative aspect; actually doing
                                                            something Period in music may be seen as anti-creative. Ultimately,
                                                            this anti-Period music attitude defeats the purpose of trying to be an
                                                            educational organization; if part of the Medieval personna is not
                                                            Medieval, then the organization is not about education but creative
                                                            fantasy. I like good Bardic music if it is written in Period style, but
                                                            after one or two Bardic pieces, I want to hear an evening's worth of
                                                            real Period music.
                                                            Elizabeth

                                                            Donald F. Harrington wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Some excellent points have been made. This is an issue I've wrestled
                                                            > with for over 30 years in the SCA.
                                                            >
                                                            > Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good opportunities for
                                                            > live music. You just have to be prepared for the facts that (1) the
                                                            > herald will start the Royals marching forward without giving you
                                                            > advance warning, usually 30 minutes or later than scheduled, and (2)
                                                            > they will hit the thrones at 10 seconds into your 90 second piece.
                                                            >
                                                            > I'd add "Alle Psallite" to the list of processionals, it's a bouncy piece.
                                                            >
                                                            > One trick is to get Royalty into your choir. I've been honored to
                                                            > have many Royal Peers in my singing groups, and they're a great
                                                            > resource for finding pomp and circumstance venues. They're also good
                                                            > at talking to other Royals and suggesting the use of live music.
                                                            >
                                                            > In general, though, I have not found the SCA to be a good venue for
                                                            > choral music. This is a bit of a rant, so take it with a grain of
                                                            > salt. Most people don't come to SCA events to hear choral music.
                                                            > They generally don't come to hear music at all. If they do think of
                                                            > music, they think of stuff from the movies (Knight's Tale, Excalibur,
                                                            > Henry V) or they think of filk songs about how wonderful SCA members
                                                            > are, much better than regular people. Music that requires active
                                                            > listening is seen as an intrusion on the fun they came to the event for.
                                                            >
                                                            > And they're right. People don't have to like early music to be in the
                                                            > SCA. They don't have to like choral music to be in the SCA. They can
                                                            > have the most award-studded careers in the SCA without ever liking it.
                                                            >
                                                            > That's the nature of the group. Choral music is a minority activity.
                                                            > That minority loves the music very much, and I think that's a
                                                            > beautiful thing. I think we should encourage music everywhere. But
                                                            > the SCA, as an organization, is not about fostering choral music.
                                                            >
                                                            > Ah, I'm depressed now, I'll stop ranting.
                                                            >
                                                            > Don Harrington
                                                            > Lazarus Artifex
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                          • lleehill@aol.com
                                                            Until some health problems forced me to give it up last year, I directed a choral group (LyonSong) for about 12 years.? We found places to perform within the
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , May 21, 2008
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                                                              Until some health problems forced me to give it up last year, I directed a choral group (LyonSong) for about 12 years.  We found places to perform within the SCA (Twelfth Night, Yule -- our local holiday feast), the odd Court, and even participated in providing music for several Coronations (working closely with the Crowns).  Quite frankly, most of the SCA audiences were horrible, especially distressing for an organization that prides itself on Chivalry.  Having spent almost 30 years in one choral group or another in the SCA, I knew all the arguments about why audiences couldn't be expected to be polite and I've probably seen every performance-damaging timing snafu.  I always tried to keep my audience firmly in mind and find music that could tempt some of them to actually stop and pay attention.  Couldn't always get their attention with period music but we tried to keep it as period as possible.  One of our best ways of "performing" without any expectations was to sit around in the pavilion at tourneys and sing period music.   Almost every time we did this, people would come and sit around the outside (or we'd invite them in) and they would listen and clap.  Sometimes we would stand around in the vestibule or the merchants' room and sing with no expectation that anyone would stop.  One Twelfth Night, the cooks got behind and we had been doing Christmas music in the outer halls for awhile.  They asked us how much music we had that we could perform to keep the feastgoers entertained until they got back on schedule.  (We had about 90 minutes of Christmas music and were just about to start over when they finished.)  We also decided that if we couldn't bring our music to an SCA audience, we would take our part of the SCA experience, our music, to the non-SCA world.  We are lucky to have this marvelous library, gardens and museum called the Huntington Library here in Southern California (huntington.org -- it's gorgeous!).  We volunteered one year to perform there for free and ended up performing there for 11 Christmasses (two 1-hour performances each year) and also did some other themed performances such as for Shakespeare's birthday or to complement a particular exhibition they had.  The audiences were so wonderful that they totally recharged us for going back and dealing with the SCA.  So I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes you have to make your own opportunities and maybe they won't all be in the SCA.  We also picked up many new SCA members through our (always costumed) performances so we weren't deserting the SCA -- we were acting as ambassadors for the SCA to the outside world.  You might want to give it a try -- schools, museums, community events, home town fairs, even once a Masonic Knights Templar installation -- sometimes they have no budget and are hungry for the sight of the costumes (they're not jaded like we are) and live entertainment.

                                                              The take-away from all this is:  Keep singing, if only for your own heart and soul!

                                                              Linda/Eden





                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              From: Elizabeth Dowling <ejdowling@...>
                                                              To: KWChoir@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Sent: Wed, 21 May 2008 9:44 pm
                                                              Subject: Re: [KWChoir] Re: the rarity of music

                                                              Hey, I'm not depressed about music, and don't mind a rant (I started
                                                              it). But, I would disagree on one point: that people shouldn't have to
                                                              experience real Medieval or Renaissance music (including both vocal and
                                                              instrumental) . In Period, you couldn't go to a court or church without
                                                              hearing that music. To experience anything truly Period it is a
                                                              necessity. I find it grating to see everybody in a much better gown or
                                                              tunic than I wear, able to weave a dress from sheep to complete garb
                                                              (and getting a Laurel for it), but participate in modern music that has
                                                              no relationship (not even modal) to something in Period. If Jane Doe
                                                              does it in modern dress, that's O.K., but not Lady Joan Glover in garb
                                                              at an S.C.A. event.

                                                              Why do I feel this way? The extreme caution people take to be "Period"
                                                              in the martial activities, other A&S (not including music), and often,
                                                              for those who can afford it, even style of tent. If as many people in
                                                              S.C.A. who sported a Period Pavilion sang or played Period music, it
                                                              would be about the number of people who were involved in music in
                                                              Period. And hey, some music costs much less per year than those tents.
                                                              What it shows me is that most people do not join the S.C.A. to re-enact
                                                              Medieval life, but to re-enact a personna with limited interests that
                                                              would not have actually existed in Period.

                                                              But I am content with those who do not feel that they are capable of
                                                              learning to sing or play an instrument (although mostly they don't give
                                                              themselves enough practice). Still, such people should listen to the
                                                              real Period music, and welcome it at courts, feasts, and other
                                                              activities, because it is really Period, and the real music gives a
                                                              great deal of pleasure. I think the reason they won't listen to the
                                                              music is that an attitude of anti-Period music has been
                                                              institutionalized in the S.C.A., because Period music is seen as somehow
                                                              denying the creativity of the Bardic music. In the A&S criteria for
                                                              most art, one must have an innovative or creative aspect; actually doing
                                                              something Period in music may be seen as anti-creative. Ultimately,
                                                              this anti-Period music attitude defeats the purpose of trying to be an
                                                              educational organization; if part of the Medieval personna is not
                                                              Medieval, then the organization is not about education but creative
                                                              fantasy. I like good Bardic music if it is written in Period style, but
                                                              after one or two Bardic pieces, I want to hear an evening's worth of
                                                              real Period music.
                                                              Elizabeth

                                                              Donald F. Harrington wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Some excellent points have been made. This is an issue I've wrestled
                                                              > with for over 30 years in the SCA.
                                                              >
                                                              > Processionals, pomp and circumstance, these are good opportunities for
                                                              > live music. You just have to be prepared for the facts that (1) the
                                                              > herald will start the Royals marching forward without giving you
                                                              > advance warning, usually 30 minutes or later than scheduled, and (2)
                                                              > they will hit the thrones at 10 seconds into your 90 second piece.
                                                              >
                                                              > I'd add "Alle Psallite" to the list of processionals, it's a bouncy piece.
                                                              >
                                                              > One trick is to get Royalty into your choir. I've been honored to
                                                              > have many Royal Peers in my singing groups, and they're a great
                                                              > resource for finding pomp and circumstance venues. They're also good
                                                              > at talking to other Royals and suggesting the use of live music.
                                                              >
                                                              > In general, though, I have not found the SCA to be a good venue for
                                                              > choral music. This is a bit of a rant, so take it with a grain of
                                                              > salt. Most people don't come to SCA events to hear choral music.
                                                              > They generally don't come to hear music at all. If they do think of
                                                              > music, they think of stuff from the movies (Knight's Tale, Excalibur,
                                                              > Henry V) or they think of filk songs about how wonderful SCA members
                                                              > are, much better than regular people. Music that requires active
                                                              > listening is seen as an intrusion on the fun they came to the event for.
                                                              >
                                                              > And they're right. People don't have to like early music to be in the
                                                              > SCA. They don't have to like choral music to be in the SCA. They can
                                                              > have the most award-studded careers in the SCA without ever liking it.
                                                              >
                                                              > That's the nature of the group. Choral music is a minority activity.
                                                              > That minority loves the music very much, and I think that's a
                                                              > beautiful thing. I think we should encourage music everywhere. But
                                                              > the SCA, as an organization, is not about fostering choral music.
                                                              >
                                                              > Ah, I'm depressed now, I'll stop ranting.
                                                              >
                                                              > Don Harrington
                                                              > Lazarus Artifex
                                                              >
                                                              >

                                                            • Donald F. Harrington
                                                              Some people have talked about those magic moments when the music and the activity come together perfectly. Those are beautiful times, I have my own memories
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , May 22, 2008
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                                                                Some people have talked about those magic moments when the music and
                                                                the activity come together perfectly. Those are beautiful times, I
                                                                have my own memories that stay with me. Those special moments are one
                                                                of the things that make the effort worthwhile.

                                                                Someone else pointed out that you can find venues outside the SCA,
                                                                too. This is a good point, my group performed for years at a local
                                                                Ren Faire. We even got paid to do strolling madrigals at a Christmas
                                                                street fair in Mesa. We did that for 3 years before the city went
                                                                through a budget crunch and stopped the event, and it was always great
                                                                fun - the patrons really liked us.

                                                                One important note from this discussion is the point that even one
                                                                person can make a difference.

                                                                Don Harrington
                                                                Lazarus Artifex
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