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Re: Open mouth and insert foot, John Kerry is a dolt.

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  • billtrc
    Too funny. Watch out for the black helicopters Kev. Bill ... allegiance to itself above any other authority. One that has been in the opium business for 150
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 1, 2006
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      Too funny. Watch out for the black helicopters Kev.

      Bill
      ------------------------------------------------------------


      --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Kerry and Bush both belong to a secret society that demands
      allegiance to itself above any other authority. One that has been in
      the opium business for 150 years. One that is powerful enough to
      have gotten drug laws passed even though such laws were always
      considered unconsitiutional. One smart enough to know that if it
      could make drugs illegal and then have free reign to distribute them
      via its underground networks, it could eventially make enough money
      to buy out or destroy any competition in any segment of the economy.
      One whose members read like a who's who of the industrial elite.
      >
      > Fortunately a conspiracy like that, if it were true, would leak
      out, eventually.
      >
      >
      >
      > At 12:31 AM 11/1/2006 -0000, you wrote:
      > >Are the Democrats going to pay for this if he's not held
      > >accountable? This is Dane's boy isn't it? I remember when he
      threw
      > >his war medals away after Nam. Wait a second, he just said he
      did,
      > >he really didn't did he? Typical liberal schmo.
      > >
      > >Kerry is an elitist piece of garbage and nothing more who let his
      > >true feelings slip. A great standard bearer for his pathetic
      party.
      > >
      > >Bill
      > >
      >
    • Dr.KEV
      I guess JFK was afraid of black helicopters, too. The President and the Press (April 27, 1961) (go to KLOS_Impact list s files page / folder: audio ) --
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I guess JFK was afraid of black helicopters, too.

        "The President and the Press" (April 27, 1961)
        (go to KLOS_Impact list's files page / folder: "audio") --> JFK-secret-societies.mp3
        -OR-
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlEqtaWpKEU
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7HXrC5QuvM
        -OR-
        text: (see end of post)
        http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/diglibrary/prezspeeches/kennedy/jfk_1961_0427.html
        mp3: ftp://webstorage2.mcpa.virginia.edu/library/nara/jfk/audiovisual/speeches/jfk_1961_0427_press.mp3

        read on, there's more!...

        At 08:57 AM 11/1/2006 -0000, you wrote:
        >Too funny. Watch out for the black helicopters Kev.
        >
        >Bill
        >------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Kerry and Bush both belong to a secret society that demands
        >allegiance to itself above any other authority. One that has been in
        >the opium business for 150 years. One that is powerful enough to
        >have gotten drug laws passed even though such laws were always
        >considered unconsitiutional. One smart enough to know that if it
        >could make drugs illegal and then have free reign to distribute them
        >via its underground networks, it could eventially make enough money
        >to buy out or destroy any competition in any segment of the economy.
        >One whose members read like a who's who of the industrial elite.
        >>
        >> Fortunately a conspiracy like that, if it were true, would leak
        >out, eventually.
        >>
        >>


        SKULL & BONES!

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

        History

        The group was founded in 1832 by Phi Beta Kappa pledges William Huntington Russell and Alphonso Taft. [1] The first Skull and Bones class, or "cohort," was the very next year, 1832-33. The society was all male until 1992.

        Traditionally, the Yale Daily News published the names of newly "tapped" members of all major secret societies at Yale, but this practice was abandoned during the student rebellion of the sixties. It has since been reinstated informally by the campus tabloid The Rumpus. Hence, while the society's current membership rosters and activities are not officially disclosed, the membership is in fact a matter of knowledge among the incoming and outgoing Yale senior class, university administration, active alumni from other societies, and underclassmen. This may be said of the other societies, as well, particularly Scroll and Key and Wolf's Head.

        The society inducts only incoming seniors, during the late junior year prior to their graduation.

        By reputation, "Bones" tapped the current football and heavyweight rowing captains as well as notables from the Yale Daily News and Yale Lit dating back to the days of "Dink Stover"; however, Yale's co-education, managed by Bonesman R. Inslee Clark, Jr. (1963), eventually made even more precious a position among the elected when Bones coeducated decades later. Numerous undergraduate constituencies are better represented among the recently-tapped membership compared to the cohorts, or delegations, that included the 27th, 41st or 43rd Presidents of the United States.

        [edit] Bonesmen

        Main article: List of Skull and Bones Members

        Skull and Bones 1947, with George H.W. Bush just left of clock
        Enlarge
        Skull and Bones 1947, with George H.W. Bush just left of clock

        Many people believe that the membership of Skull and Bones had been totally secret. However the membership for each year is held in the Yale University archives. The membership rosters cover the years 1833-1985, with some additional years. The top repetitive families in Skull and Bones are also known because in 1985 an anonymous source leaked rosters to a private researcher, Antony C. Sutton. This leaked 1985 data was kept privately for over 15 years, as Sutton feared that the photocopied pages could somehow identify the member who leaked it. The information was finally reformatted as an appendix in the book Fleshing out Skull and Bones, a compilation edited by Kris Millegan, published in 2003.

        Many influential figures have been in Bones, and influential families have often had multiple members over successive generations. Bonesmen range from U.S. Presidents such as George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, and William Howard Taft along with Supreme Court Justices, business leaders and U.S. Senators such as John F. Kerry who ran for President in 2004.

        (snip)


        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Skull_and_Bones_Members

        The Skull and Bones (1833-present) published membership lists until 1971, which were kept at the Yale Library. The following partial list of noteworthy Bonesmen is compiled from those lists. The number in parentheses represents their cohort year of Skull and Bones, as well as their graduation year from Yale University.

        [edit] Founders

        * William Huntington Russell (1833), Co-founder of the Skull and Bones was a Connecticut State Legislator, and according to sources his cousin Samuel Russell established Russell and Company for the "purpose of acquiring opium in Turkey and smuggling it to China." Warren Delano, Jr., the grandfather of Franklin Roosevelt (32nd President of the United States) served as the Chief of Operations of Russell and Company in Canton. John Murray Forbes, the great-granduncle of John Forbes Kerry (S&B 1966) had a son Robert Bennet Forbes who was the head of Russell and Company.
        * Alphonso Taft (1832), Co-Founder of the Skull and Bones, U.S. Attorney General (1876-1877), Secretary of War (1876), Ambassador to Austria-Hungary (1882), and Russia (1884-1885), father of William Howard Taft who served both as the 27th President of the United States and Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court.

        [edit] Partial List of Members

        * Victor Ashe (S&B 1967), Tenn. State House (1m968-1975); Tenn. State Senate (1976-1984); Mayor - Knoxville, Tenn. (1988-2003); Skull and Bones member President George W. Bush appoints him Ambassador to Poland (2004-Present)
        * Roy Leslie Austin (S&B 1968), George W. Bush (S&B 1968) appoints him Ambassador to Trinidad and Tobagos
        * Simeon Eben Baldwin (1861), Governor and Chief Justice, State of Connecticut (son of Roger Sherman Baldwin)
        * Jonathan Brewster Bingham (1936), U.S. Senator
        * David Boren (1963), Governor of Oklahoma, U.S. Senator, President of the University of Oklahoma
        * Amory Howe Bradford (1934), general manager for the New York Times, worked briefly for the CIA
        * Hugh Cunningham (?), worked briefly for the CIA
        * Augustus Brandegee (1849), Speaker of the Connecticut State Legislature in 1861
        * Frank Bosworth Brandegee (1885), U.S. Senator
        * James Buckley (1944), U.S. Senator, worked for CIA briefly
        * William F. Buckley
        * William F. Buckley, Jr. (1950), founder of National Review, author, CIA covert agent
        * McGeorge Bundy Special Assistant for National Security Affairs under Kennedy and Johnson, National Security Advisor, Professor of History
        * William P. Bundy (1939), the State Department's liaison for the Bay of Pigs invasion.
        * Prescott Bush (1916), father of George H.W. Bush who was the 41st President of the United States, and the grandfather of George W. Bush, the 43rd President of the United States
        * George H. W. Bush (1948), 41st President of the United States, 43rd Vice-President of the United States, son of Boneseman Prescott Bush, father of Bonesman George W. Bush
        * George W. Bush (1968), 43rd President of the United States, Governor of Texas
        * John Chafee (1947), U.S. Senator, Secretary of the Navy and Governor of Rhode Island; father of U.S. Senator Lincoln Chafee
        * R. Inslee Clark (1963), Director of Undergraduate Admissions who help co-educate Yale under Kingman Brewster, former Headmaster Horace Mann School
        * Thomas Cochran (1904), JP Morgan partner
        * John Sherman Cooper (1923), U.S. Senator and member of the Warren Commission
        * Alfred Cowles (1913), Cowles Communication
        * Russell W. Davenport (1923), editor of Fortune Magazine, created Fortune 500 list
        * F. Trubee Davison (1918), Director of Personnel at the Central Intelligence Agency
        * Henry P. Davison Jr. (1920), senior partner, JP Morgan's Guaranty Trust
        * Endicott Peabody Davison (1948), same class as George H.W. Bush, later became Bush's lawyer.
        * Chauncey Depew, U.S. Senator
        * William Henry Draper III (1950), chair of United Nations Development Programme and Import-Export Bank of the United States
        * Timothy Dwight (1849), Yale acting Treasurer 1887-89, Yale Pres. 1886-99
        * Timothy Dwight V (1849), President of Yale College
        * John E. Ecklund (1938), Treasurer 1966-78, Partner in Bones-dominanted New Haven lawfirm Dana & Wiggin
        * William Maxwell Evarts (1837), U.S. Secretary of State, Attorney General, and Senator (grandson of Roger Sherman)
        * Robert D. French (1910)
        * Charles Stafford Gage (1925), Yale Treasurer 1954-66, and with Bones family firm Mathiesson Chemical
        * Evan G. Galbraith (1950), Ambassador to France and managing director of Morgan Stanley
        * Artemus Gates (1918), President of New York Trust Company, Union Pacific Railroad, TIME-Life and Boeing Company
        * Daniel Coit Gilman (1852), Studied at the University of Berlin (1854-1855) under Karl Von Ritter and Friedrich Trendelenderg, attache to the American legation at St. Petersburg; 2nd President of the University of California, 1st President of Johns Hopkins University, President of the Carnegie Institution
        * William Henry Gleason (1853), Lt. Governor of Florida, founder of Eau Gallie, Florida, lawyer and land speculator
        * Robert Gow (1955), business associate of George H. W. Bush, joined and later president of Bush's Zapata Oil
        * Briton Hadden (1920), Cofounder of Time-Life Enterprises
        * Arthur T. Hadley (1876), Yale acting Treas. 1909-10, Yale Pres. 1899-1921
        * Averell Harriman (1913), U.S. Ambassador and Secretary of Commerce, Governor of New York, Chairman and CEO of the Union Pacific Railroad, Brown Brothers & Harriman and the Southern Pacific Railroad. Wife Pamela Churchill Harriman helped to fund Bill Clinton's Presidential camapign.
        * E. Roland Harriman (1917), businessman.
        * John Heinz II (1931), heir to H. J. Heinz Company, father of U.S. Senator John Heinz; first husband of Teresa Heinz Kerry.
        * Reuben Holden
        * Pierre Jay (1892), first chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York
        * John Kerry (1966) U.S. Senator and 2004 Democratic presidential nominee
        * Henry Coit Kingsley (1834), Yale Treasurer 1862-87 (D. G. Gilman's uncle; Gilman even wrote the land grant application for Yale, which was quickly authorized; monies passed to his uncle, treasurer of Yale.)
        * Charles Edwin Lord (1949), U.S. Comptroller of the Currency
        * Winston Lord (1959), Chairman of Council on Foreign Relations, Ambassador to China, and Assistant U.S. Secretary of State
        * Henry Luce (1920), Cofounder of Time-Life Enterprises
        * Archibald MacLeish (1915), poet and author
        * F. O. Matthiessen
        * Robert McCallum, Jr (1968) - Current Ambassador to Australia
        * Thomas Lee McClung (1892), Yale Treasurer 1904-09 (Bones U.S. Treas as well 1909-12, appointed by Bones U.S. President Taft)
        * David McCullough (1955), U.S. historian and 2 time Pulitzer Prize winner
        * Gifford Pinchot (1889), first Chief of U.S. Forest Service, under President Theodore Roosevelt
        * Dino Pionzio (1950), CIA Deputy Chief of Station during Allende overthrow
        * John Rockefeller Prentice (1928), grandson of John D. Rockefeller, pioneer of artificial insemination in farm animals as a means of improving their genetic pool
        * Percy Rockefeller (1900), Director of Brown Brothers Harriman, Standard Oil and Remington Arms
        * Charles Seymour
        * Benjamin Silliman, Jr
        * Frederick W. Smith (1966), founder of FedEx
        * Harold Stanley (1908), founder of investment house of Morgan Stanley
        * Donald Ogden Stewart
        * Potter Stewart (1936), U.S. Supreme Court Justice
        * Anson Phelps Stokes
        * Daniel Suppers (1980), former CEO of McDonalds and fast-food connoisseur
        * William Howard Taft (1878), Secretary of War, 27th President of the United States, Chief Justice of the United States, (son of Alphonso Taft)
        * Robert A. Taft I, U.S. Senator
        * Lawrence G. Tithe (1916), Yale Treasurer 1942-54, Director/Partner Brown Brothers Harriman
        * Alfred Gwynne Vanderbilt (1898), son of Cornelius Vanderbilt II and brother of Gertude Vanderbilt Whitney
        * Morrison R. Waite (1837), U.S. Supreme Court Justice
        * George Herbert Walker, Jr. (1927), financier and co-founder of the New York Mets
        * Frederick E. Weyerhaeuser (1896), scion of the Weyerhaeuser Paper Co.
        * Andrew Dickson White (1853), first President of Cornell University
        * Edward Baldwin Whitney (1878), New York Supreme Court Justice
        * Harry Payne Whitney (1894), husband of Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, investment banker
        * William Collins Whitney (1863), U.S. Secretary of the Navy and New York City financier
        * Hugh Wilson (1909)
        * Dean Witter, Jr. (1944), founder of the investment house Dean Witter & Co.
        * William Jorden (1925), Ex US Ambassador to Panama and was on the National Security Council
        * Walter Camp (1880), founder of the first national collegiate football All-American squad
        * Amos Alonzo Stagg (1888), one of the all-time winningest college football coaches
        * Larry Kelley (1937), 1936 Heisman Trophy winner
        * Clint Frank (1938), 1937 Heisman Trophy winner
        * Neil Mallon (1917), CEO Dresser Industries, where Prescott Bush served on the Board for 22 years, along with E. Roland Harriman. Gave George H.W. Bush his first job in 1948, namesake for Bush's son Neil Mallon Bush; "tried to be helpful to Allen Dulles in the CIA, especially in the procurement of individuals to serve in that important agency."
        * Robert A. Lovett (1918), partner of Prescott Bush at Brown Brothers Harriman, "father of the CIA" and Secretary of Defense.
        * William Bissell (19??), ?. [His brother, Richard M. Bissell, Jr. was a Yale grad of 1932 but not Skull & Bones; Richard directed the Bay of Pigs invasion out of Miami as CIA Director of Plans].
        * Richard Dale Drain (1943), CIA; co-authored (with Jacob Easterline) an early paper proposing the Bay of Pigs invasion, "A Program of Covert Action against the Castro Regime," adopted by President Eisenhower on 17 March 1960. Also a Memorandum for the Record, 1 /30/61, "likelihood of success was very high"
        * Howard Weaver (1945), retired from the CIA in 1959.
        * Carl Tucker, Jr (1947) inducted GHW Bush into Skull and Bones.



        (text of JFK speech below)


        >>
        >> At 12:31 AM 11/1/2006 -0000, you wrote:
        >> >Are the Democrats going to pay for this if he's not held
        >> >accountable? This is Dane's boy isn't it? I remember when he
        >threw
        >> >his war medals away after Nam. Wait a second, he just said he
        >did,
        >> >he really didn't did he? Typical liberal schmo.
        >> >
        >> >Kerry is an elitist piece of garbage and nothing more who let his
        >> >true feelings slip. A great standard bearer for his pathetic
        >party.
        >> >
        >> >Bill
        >> >
        >>
        >
        >

        http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/diglibrary/prezspeeches/kennedy/jfk_1961_0427.html
        John F. Kennedy Speeches

        "The President and the Press" (April 27, 1961)

        Download Audio (mp3)
        ftp://webstorage2.mcpa.virginia.edu/library/nara/jfk/audiovisual/speeches/jfk_1961_0427_press.mp3

        Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen:

        I appreciate very much your generous invitation to be here tonight.

        You bear heavy responsibilities these days and an article I read some time ago reminded me of how particularly heavily the burdens of present day events bear upon your profession.

        You may remember that in 1851 t. he New York Herald Tribune, under the sponsorship and publishing of Horace Greeley, employed as its London correspondent an obscure journalist by the name of Karl Marx.

        We are told that foreign correspondent Marx, stone broke, and with a family ill and undernourished, constantly appealed to Greeley and Managing Editor Charles Dana for an increase in his munificent salary of $5 per installment, a salary which he and Engels ungratefully labeled as the "lousiest petty bourgeois cheating."

        But when all his financial appeals were refused, Marx looked around for other means of livelihood and fame, eventually terminating his relationship with the Tribune and devoting his talents full time to the cause that would bequeath to the world the seeds of Leninism, Stalinism, revolution and the cold war.

        If only this capitalistic New York newspaper had treated him more kindly; if only Marx had remained a foreign correspondent, history might have been different. And I hope all publishers will bear this lesson in mind the next time they receive a poverty-stricken appeal for a small increase in the expense account from an obscure newspaper

        I have selected as the title of my remarks tonight "The President and the Press." Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded "The President Versus the Press." But those are not my sentiments tonight.

        It is true, however, that when a well-known diplomat from another country demanded recently that our State Department repudiate certain newspaper attacks on his colleague it was unnecessary for us to reply that this Administration was not responsible for the press, for the press had already made it clear that it was not responsible for this Administration.

        Nevertheless, my purpose here tonight is not to deliver the usual assault on the so-called one-party press. On the contrary, in recent months I have rarely heard any complaints about political bias in the press except from a few Republicans. Nor is it my purpose tonight to discuss or defend the televising of Presidential press conferences. I think it is highly beneficial to have some 20,000,000 Americans regularly sit in on these conferences to observe, if I may say so, the incisive, the intelligent and the courteous qualities displayed by your Washington correspondents.

        Nor, finally, are these remarks intended to examine the proper degree of privacy which the press should allow to any President and his family.

        If in the last few months your White House reporters and photographers have been attending church services with regularity, that has surely done them no harm.

        On the other hand, I realize that your staff and wire service photographers may be complaining that they do not enjoy the same green privileges at the local golf courses which they once did.

        It is true that my predecessor did not object as I do to pictures of one's golfing skill in action. But neither on the other hand did he ever bean a Secret Service man. My topic tonight is a more sober one of concern to publishers as well as editors.

        I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some; but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years. Whatever our hopes may be for the future--for reducing this threat or living with it--there is no escaping either the gravity or the totality of its challenge to our survival and to our security--a challenge that confronts us in unaccustomed ways in every sphere of human activity.

        This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President--two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy.

        The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

        But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the nature of our country's peril. In time of war, the government and the press have customarily joined in an effort, based largely on self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy. In time of "clear and present danger," the courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

        Today no war has been declared--and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.

        If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.

        It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions--by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

        its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.

        Nevertheless, every democracy recognizes the necessary restraints of national security-and the question remains whether those restraints need to be more strictly observed if we are to oppose this kind of attack as well as outright invasion.

        For the facts of the matter are that this nation's foes have openly boasted of acquiring through our newspapers information they would otherwise hire agents to acquire through theft, bribery or espionage; that details of this nation's covert preparations to counter the enemy's covert operations have been available to every newspaper reader, friend and foe alike; that the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons, and our plans and strategy for their use, have all been pinpointed in the press and other news media to a degree sufficient to satisfy any foreign power; and that, in at least one case, the publication of details concerning a secret mechanism whereby satellites were followed required its alteration at the expense of considerable time and money.

        The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible and well-meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare, they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted.

        That question is for you alone to answer. No public official should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to the Nation, in considering all of the responsibilities that we now bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities, if I did not commend this problem to your attention, and urge its thoughtful consideration.

        On many earlier occasions, I have said-and your newspapers have constantly said-that these are times that appeal to every citizen's sense of sacrifice and self-discipline. They call out to every citizen to weigh his rights and comforts against his obligations to the common good. I cannot now believe that those citizens who serve in the newspaper business consider themselves exempt from that appeal.

        I have no intention of establishing a new Office of War Information to govern the flow of news. I am not suggesting any new forms of censorship or new types of security classifications. I have no easy answer to the dilemma that I have posed, and would not seek to impose it if I had one. But I am asking the members of the newspaper profession and the industry in this country to reexamine their own responsibilities, to consider the degree and the nature of the present danger, and to heed the duty of self-restraint which that danger imposes upon us all.

        Every newspaper now asks itself, with respect to every story: "Is it news?" All I suggest is that you add the question: "Is it in the interest of the national security?" And I hope that every group in America-unions and businessmen and public officials at every level--will ask the same question of their endeavors, and subject their actions to this same exacting test.

        And should the press of America consider and recommend the voluntary assumption of specific new steps or machinery, I can assure you that we will cooperate whole-heartedly with those recommendations.

        Perhaps there will be no recommendations. Perhaps there is no answer to the dilemma faced by a free and open society in a cold and secret war. In times of peace, any discussion of this subject, and any action that results, are both painful and without precedent. But this is a time of peace and peril which knows no precedent in history.

        It is the unprecedented nature of this challenge that also gives rise to your second obligation--an obligation which I share. And that is our obligation to inform and alert the American people--to make certain that they possess all the facts that they need, and understand them as well--the perils, the prospects, the purposes of our program and the choices that we face.

        No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary. I am not asking your newspapers to support the Administration, but I .am asking your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people. For I have complete confidence in the response and dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed.

        I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers--I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for, as a wise man once said: "An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them.

        Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed-and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian law-maker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First Amendment--the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution--not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply "give the public what it wants"--but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate and sometimes even anger public opinion.

        This means greater coverage and analysis of international news--for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security--and we intend to do it.

        It was early in the Seventeenth Century that Francis Bacon remarked on three recent inventions already transforming the world: the compass, gunpowder and the printing press. Now the links between the nations first forged by the compass have made us all citizens of the world, the hopes and threats of one becoming the hopes and threats of us all. In that one world's efforts to live together, the evolution of gunpowder to its ultimate limit has warned mankind of the terrible consequences of failure.

        And so it is to the printing press--to the recorder of man's deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news--that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help man will be what he was born to be: free and independent.
        -

        peace,
        -KEV
        ======end transmission======
      • billtrc
        Let s argue this Kev, if we disagree. I think you ve mistaken what Kennedy was saying if you believe he was afraid of the Black Helicopters. He was afraid of
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Let's argue this Kev, if we disagree. I think you've mistaken what
          Kennedy was saying if you believe he was afraid of the Black
          Helicopters. He was afraid of the unlimited power of the press. I
          applaud your posting of this speech as it is timely and it could be
          something Bush would be wise to repeat today.

          My question to you would be this. If Bush brought this speech a
          little up to date, but the same message that's in it was understood
          by the people of this country, what would the press do? More so,
          what was their reaction to Kennedy? How would the American people
          react?

          Skull and Bones is a big zero, be serious.

          Bill
          -------------------------------------------------------------------


          --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I guess JFK was afraid of black helicopters, too.
          >
          > "The President and the Press" (April 27, 1961)
          > (go to KLOS_Impact list's files page / folder: "audio") --> JFK-
          secret-societies.mp3
          > -OR-
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlEqtaWpKEU
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7HXrC5QuvM
          > -OR-
          > text: (see end of post)
          >
          http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/diglibrary/prezspeeches/kenn
          edy/jfk_1961_0427.html
          > mp3:
          ftp://webstorage2.mcpa.virginia.edu/library/nara/jfk/audiovisual/spee
          ches/jfk_1961_0427_press.mp3
          >
          > read on, there's more!...
          >
          > At 08:57 AM 11/1/2006 -0000, you wrote:
          > >Too funny. Watch out for the black helicopters Kev.
          > >
          > >Bill
          > >------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Kerry and Bush both belong to a secret society that demands
          > >allegiance to itself above any other authority. One that has been
          in
          > >the opium business for 150 years. One that is powerful enough to
          > >have gotten drug laws passed even though such laws were always
          > >considered unconsitiutional. One smart enough to know that if it
          > >could make drugs illegal and then have free reign to distribute
          them
          > >via its underground networks, it could eventially make enough
          money
          > >to buy out or destroy any competition in any segment of the
          economy.
          > >One whose members read like a who's who of the industrial elite.
          > >>
          > >> Fortunately a conspiracy like that, if it were true, would leak
          > >out, eventually.
          > >>
          > >>
          >
          >
          > SKULL & BONES!
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones
          >
          > History
          >
          > The group was founded in 1832 by Phi Beta Kappa pledges William
          Huntington Russell and Alphonso Taft. [1] The first Skull and Bones
          class, or "cohort," was the very next year, 1832-33. The society was
          all male until 1992.
          >
          > Traditionally, the Yale Daily News published the names of
          newly "tapped" members of all major secret societies at Yale, but
          this practice was abandoned during the student rebellion of the
          sixties. It has since been reinstated informally by the campus
          tabloid The Rumpus. Hence, while the society's current membership
          rosters and activities are not officially disclosed, the membership
          is in fact a matter of knowledge among the incoming and outgoing
          Yale senior class, university administration, active alumni from
          other societies, and underclassmen. This may be said of the other
          societies, as well, particularly Scroll and Key and Wolf's Head.
          >
          > The society inducts only incoming seniors, during the late junior
          year prior to their graduation.
          >
          > By reputation, "Bones" tapped the current football and heavyweight
          rowing captains as well as notables from the Yale Daily News and
          Yale Lit dating back to the days of "Dink Stover"; however, Yale's
          co-education, managed by Bonesman R. Inslee Clark, Jr. (1963),
          eventually made even more precious a position among the elected when
          Bones coeducated decades later. Numerous undergraduate
          constituencies are better represented among the recently-tapped
          membership compared to the cohorts, or delegations, that included
          the 27th, 41st or 43rd Presidents of the United States.
          >
          > [edit] Bonesmen
          >
          > Main article: List of Skull and Bones Members
          >
          > Skull and Bones 1947, with George H.W. Bush just left of clock
          > Enlarge
          > Skull and Bones 1947, with George H.W. Bush just left of clock
          >
          > Many people believe that the membership of Skull and Bones had
          been totally secret. However the membership for each year is held in
          the Yale University archives. The membership rosters cover the years
          1833-1985, with some additional years. The top repetitive families
          in Skull and Bones are also known because in 1985 an anonymous
          source leaked rosters to a private researcher, Antony C. Sutton.
          This leaked 1985 data was kept privately for over 15 years, as
          Sutton feared that the photocopied pages could somehow identify the
          member who leaked it. The information was finally reformatted as an
          appendix in the book Fleshing out Skull and Bones, a compilation
          edited by Kris Millegan, published in 2003.
          >
          > Many influential figures have been in Bones, and influential
          families have often had multiple members over successive
          generations. Bonesmen range from U.S. Presidents such as George W.
          Bush, George H. W. Bush, and William Howard Taft along with Supreme
          Court Justices, business leaders and U.S. Senators such as John F.
          Kerry who ran for President in 2004.
          >
          > (snip)
          >
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Skull_and_Bones_Members
          >
          > The Skull and Bones (1833-present) published membership lists
          until 1971, which were kept at the Yale Library. The following
          partial list of noteworthy Bonesmen is compiled from those lists.
          The number in parentheses represents their cohort year of Skull and
          Bones, as well as their graduation year from Yale University.
          >
          > [edit] Founders
          >
          > * William Huntington Russell (1833), Co-founder of the Skull
          and Bones was a Connecticut State Legislator, and according to
          sources his cousin Samuel Russell established Russell and Company
          for the "purpose of acquiring opium in Turkey and smuggling it to
          China." Warren Delano, Jr., the grandfather of Franklin Roosevelt
          (32nd President of the United States) served as the Chief of
          Operations of Russell and Company in Canton. John Murray Forbes, the
          great-granduncle of John Forbes Kerry (S&B 1966) had a son Robert
          Bennet Forbes who was the head of Russell and Company.
          > * Alphonso Taft (1832), Co-Founder of the Skull and Bones,
          U.S. Attorney General (1876-1877), Secretary of War (1876),
          Ambassador to Austria-Hungary (1882), and Russia (1884-1885), father
          of William Howard Taft who served both as the 27th President of the
          United States and Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court.
          >
          > [edit] Partial List of Members
          >
          > * Victor Ashe (S&B 1967), Tenn. State House (1m968-1975);
          Tenn. State Senate (1976-1984); Mayor - Knoxville, Tenn. (1988-
          2003); Skull and Bones member President George W. Bush appoints him
          Ambassador to Poland (2004-Present)
          > * Roy Leslie Austin (S&B 1968), George W. Bush (S&B 1968)
          appoints him Ambassador to Trinidad and Tobagos
          > * Simeon Eben Baldwin (1861), Governor and Chief Justice,
          State of Connecticut (son of Roger Sherman Baldwin)
          > * Jonathan Brewster Bingham (1936), U.S. Senator
          > * David Boren (1963), Governor of Oklahoma, U.S. Senator,
          President of the University of Oklahoma
          > * Amory Howe Bradford (1934), general manager for the New York
          Times, worked briefly for the CIA
          > * Hugh Cunningham (?), worked briefly for the CIA
          > * Augustus Brandegee (1849), Speaker of the Connecticut State
          Legislature in 1861
          > * Frank Bosworth Brandegee (1885), U.S. Senator
          > * James Buckley (1944), U.S. Senator, worked for CIA briefly
          > * William F. Buckley
          > * William F. Buckley, Jr. (1950), founder of National Review,
          author, CIA covert agent
          > * McGeorge Bundy Special Assistant for National Security
          Affairs under Kennedy and Johnson, National Security Advisor,
          Professor of History
          > * William P. Bundy (1939), the State Department's liaison for
          the Bay of Pigs invasion.
          > * Prescott Bush (1916), father of George H.W. Bush who was the
          41st President of the United States, and the grandfather of George
          W. Bush, the 43rd President of the United States
          > * George H. W. Bush (1948), 41st President of the United
          States, 43rd Vice-President of the United States, son of Boneseman
          Prescott Bush, father of Bonesman George W. Bush
          > * George W. Bush (1968), 43rd President of the United States,
          Governor of Texas
          > * John Chafee (1947), U.S. Senator, Secretary of the Navy and
          Governor of Rhode Island; father of U.S. Senator Lincoln Chafee
          > * R. Inslee Clark (1963), Director of Undergraduate Admissions
          who help co-educate Yale under Kingman Brewster, former Headmaster
          Horace Mann School
          > * Thomas Cochran (1904), JP Morgan partner
          > * John Sherman Cooper (1923), U.S. Senator and member of the
          Warren Commission
          > * Alfred Cowles (1913), Cowles Communication
          > * Russell W. Davenport (1923), editor of Fortune Magazine,
          created Fortune 500 list
          > * F. Trubee Davison (1918), Director of Personnel at the
          Central Intelligence Agency
          > * Henry P. Davison Jr. (1920), senior partner, JP Morgan's
          Guaranty Trust
          > * Endicott Peabody Davison (1948), same class as George H.W.
          Bush, later became Bush's lawyer.
          > * Chauncey Depew, U.S. Senator
          > * William Henry Draper III (1950), chair of United Nations
          Development Programme and Import-Export Bank of the United States
          > * Timothy Dwight (1849), Yale acting Treasurer 1887-89, Yale
          Pres. 1886-99
          > * Timothy Dwight V (1849), President of Yale College
          > * John E. Ecklund (1938), Treasurer 1966-78, Partner in Bones-
          dominanted New Haven lawfirm Dana & Wiggin
          > * William Maxwell Evarts (1837), U.S. Secretary of State,
          Attorney General, and Senator (grandson of Roger Sherman)
          > * Robert D. French (1910)
          > * Charles Stafford Gage (1925), Yale Treasurer 1954-66, and
          with Bones family firm Mathiesson Chemical
          > * Evan G. Galbraith (1950), Ambassador to France and managing
          director of Morgan Stanley
          > * Artemus Gates (1918), President of New York Trust Company,
          Union Pacific Railroad, TIME-Life and Boeing Company
          > * Daniel Coit Gilman (1852), Studied at the University of
          Berlin (1854-1855) under Karl Von Ritter and Friedrich
          Trendelenderg, attache to the American legation at St. Petersburg;
          2nd President of the University of California, 1st President of
          Johns Hopkins University, President of the Carnegie Institution
          > * William Henry Gleason (1853), Lt. Governor of Florida,
          founder of Eau Gallie, Florida, lawyer and land speculator
          > * Robert Gow (1955), business associate of George H. W. Bush,
          joined and later president of Bush's Zapata Oil
          > * Briton Hadden (1920), Cofounder of Time-Life Enterprises
          > * Arthur T. Hadley (1876), Yale acting Treas. 1909-10, Yale
          Pres. 1899-1921
          > * Averell Harriman (1913), U.S. Ambassador and Secretary of
          Commerce, Governor of New York, Chairman and CEO of the Union
          Pacific Railroad, Brown Brothers & Harriman and the Southern Pacific
          Railroad. Wife Pamela Churchill Harriman helped to fund Bill
          Clinton's Presidential camapign.
          > * E. Roland Harriman (1917), businessman.
          > * John Heinz II (1931), heir to H. J. Heinz Company, father of
          U.S. Senator John Heinz; first husband of Teresa Heinz Kerry.
          > * Reuben Holden
          > * Pierre Jay (1892), first chairman of the Federal Reserve
          Bank of New York
          > * John Kerry (1966) U.S. Senator and 2004 Democratic
          presidential nominee
          > * Henry Coit Kingsley (1834), Yale Treasurer 1862-87 (D. G.
          Gilman's uncle; Gilman even wrote the land grant application for
          Yale, which was quickly authorized; monies passed to his uncle,
          treasurer of Yale.)
          > * Charles Edwin Lord (1949), U.S. Comptroller of the Currency
          > * Winston Lord (1959), Chairman of Council on Foreign
          Relations, Ambassador to China, and Assistant U.S. Secretary of State
          > * Henry Luce (1920), Cofounder of Time-Life Enterprises
          > * Archibald MacLeish (1915), poet and author
          > * F. O. Matthiessen
          > * Robert McCallum, Jr (1968) - Current Ambassador to Australia
          > * Thomas Lee McClung (1892), Yale Treasurer 1904-09 (Bones
          U.S. Treas as well 1909-12, appointed by Bones U.S. President Taft)
          > * David McCullough (1955), U.S. historian and 2 time Pulitzer
          Prize winner
          > * Gifford Pinchot (1889), first Chief of U.S. Forest Service,
          under President Theodore Roosevelt
          > * Dino Pionzio (1950), CIA Deputy Chief of Station during
          Allende overthrow
          > * John Rockefeller Prentice (1928), grandson of John D.
          Rockefeller, pioneer of artificial insemination in farm animals as a
          means of improving their genetic pool
          > * Percy Rockefeller (1900), Director of Brown Brothers
          Harriman, Standard Oil and Remington Arms
          > * Charles Seymour
          > * Benjamin Silliman, Jr
          > * Frederick W. Smith (1966), founder of FedEx
          > * Harold Stanley (1908), founder of investment house of Morgan
          Stanley
          > * Donald Ogden Stewart
          > * Potter Stewart (1936), U.S. Supreme Court Justice
          > * Anson Phelps Stokes
          > * Daniel Suppers (1980), former CEO of McDonalds and fast-food
          connoisseur
          > * William Howard Taft (1878), Secretary of War, 27th President
          of the United States, Chief Justice of the United States, (son of
          Alphonso Taft)
          > * Robert A. Taft I, U.S. Senator
          > * Lawrence G. Tithe (1916), Yale Treasurer 1942-54,
          Director/Partner Brown Brothers Harriman
          > * Alfred Gwynne Vanderbilt (1898), son of Cornelius Vanderbilt
          II and brother of Gertude Vanderbilt Whitney
          > * Morrison R. Waite (1837), U.S. Supreme Court Justice
          > * George Herbert Walker, Jr. (1927), financier and co-founder
          of the New York Mets
          > * Frederick E. Weyerhaeuser (1896), scion of the Weyerhaeuser
          Paper Co.
          > * Andrew Dickson White (1853), first President of Cornell
          University
          > * Edward Baldwin Whitney (1878), New York Supreme Court Justice
          > * Harry Payne Whitney (1894), husband of Gertrude Vanderbilt
          Whitney, investment banker
          > * William Collins Whitney (1863), U.S. Secretary of the Navy
          and New York City financier
          > * Hugh Wilson (1909)
          > * Dean Witter, Jr. (1944), founder of the investment house
          Dean Witter & Co.
          > * William Jorden (1925), Ex US Ambassador to Panama and was on
          the National Security Council
          > * Walter Camp (1880), founder of the first national collegiate
          football All-American squad
          > * Amos Alonzo Stagg (1888), one of the all-time winningest
          college football coaches
          > * Larry Kelley (1937), 1936 Heisman Trophy winner
          > * Clint Frank (1938), 1937 Heisman Trophy winner
          > * Neil Mallon (1917), CEO Dresser Industries, where Prescott
          Bush served on the Board for 22 years, along with E. Roland
          Harriman. Gave George H.W. Bush his first job in 1948, namesake for
          Bush's son Neil Mallon Bush; "tried to be helpful to Allen Dulles in
          the CIA, especially in the procurement of individuals to serve in
          that important agency."
          > * Robert A. Lovett (1918), partner of Prescott Bush at Brown
          Brothers Harriman, "father of the CIA" and Secretary of Defense.
          > * William Bissell (19??), ?. [His brother, Richard M. Bissell,
          Jr. was a Yale grad of 1932 but not Skull & Bones; Richard directed
          the Bay of Pigs invasion out of Miami as CIA Director of Plans].
          > * Richard Dale Drain (1943), CIA; co-authored (with Jacob
          Easterline) an early paper proposing the Bay of Pigs invasion, "A
          Program of Covert Action against the Castro Regime," adopted by
          President Eisenhower on 17 March 1960. Also a Memorandum for the
          Record, 1 /30/61, "likelihood of success was very high"
          > * Howard Weaver (1945), retired from the CIA in 1959.
          > * Carl Tucker, Jr (1947) inducted GHW Bush into Skull and
          Bones.
          >
          >
          >
          > (text of JFK speech below)
          >
          >
          > >>
          > >> At 12:31 AM 11/1/2006 -0000, you wrote:
          > >> >Are the Democrats going to pay for this if he's not held
          > >> >accountable? This is Dane's boy isn't it? I remember when he
          > >threw
          > >> >his war medals away after Nam. Wait a second, he just said he
          > >did,
          > >> >he really didn't did he? Typical liberal schmo.
          > >> >
          > >> >Kerry is an elitist piece of garbage and nothing more who let
          his
          > >> >true feelings slip. A great standard bearer for his pathetic
          > >party.
          > >> >
          > >> >Bill
          > >> >
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/diglibrary/prezspeeches/kenn
          edy/jfk_1961_0427.html
          > John F. Kennedy Speeches
          >
          > "The President and the Press" (April 27, 1961)
          >
          > Download Audio (mp3)
          >
          ftp://webstorage2.mcpa.virginia.edu/library/nara/jfk/audiovisual/spee
          ches/jfk_1961_0427_press.mp3
          >
          > Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen:
          >
          > I appreciate very much your generous invitation to be here tonight.
          >
          > You bear heavy responsibilities these days and an article I read
          some time ago reminded me of how particularly heavily the burdens of
          present day events bear upon your profession.
          >
          > You may remember that in 1851 t. he New York Herald Tribune, under
          the sponsorship and publishing of Horace Greeley, employed as its
          London correspondent an obscure journalist by the name of Karl Marx.
          >
          > We are told that foreign correspondent Marx, stone broke, and with
          a family ill and undernourished, constantly appealed to Greeley and
          Managing Editor Charles Dana for an increase in his munificent
          salary of $5 per installment, a salary which he and Engels
          ungratefully labeled as the "lousiest petty bourgeois cheating."
          >
          > But when all his financial appeals were refused, Marx looked
          around for other means of livelihood and fame, eventually
          terminating his relationship with the Tribune and devoting his
          talents full time to the cause that would bequeath to the world the
          seeds of Leninism, Stalinism, revolution and the cold war.
          >
          > If only this capitalistic New York newspaper had treated him more
          kindly; if only Marx had remained a foreign correspondent, history
          might have been different. And I hope all publishers will bear this
          lesson in mind the next time they receive a poverty-stricken appeal
          for a small increase in the expense account from an obscure newspaper
          >
          > I have selected as the title of my remarks tonight "The President
          and the Press." Some may suggest that this would be more naturally
          worded "The President Versus the Press." But those are not my
          sentiments tonight.
          >
          > It is true, however, that when a well-known diplomat from another
          country demanded recently that our State Department repudiate
          certain newspaper attacks on his colleague it was unnecessary for us
          to reply that this Administration was not responsible for the press,
          for the press had already made it clear that it was not responsible
          for this Administration.
          >
          > Nevertheless, my purpose here tonight is not to deliver the usual
          assault on the so-called one-party press. On the contrary, in recent
          months I have rarely heard any complaints about political bias in
          the press except from a few Republicans. Nor is it my purpose
          tonight to discuss or defend the televising of Presidential press
          conferences. I think it is highly beneficial to have some 20,000,000
          Americans regularly sit in on these conferences to observe, if I may
          say so, the incisive, the intelligent and the courteous qualities
          displayed by your Washington correspondents.
          >
          > Nor, finally, are these remarks intended to examine the proper
          degree of privacy which the press should allow to any President and
          his family.
          >
          > If in the last few months your White House reporters and
          photographers have been attending church services with regularity,
          that has surely done them no harm.
          >
          > On the other hand, I realize that your staff and wire service
          photographers may be complaining that they do not enjoy the same
          green privileges at the local golf courses which they once did.
          >
          > It is true that my predecessor did not object as I do to pictures
          of one's golfing skill in action. But neither on the other hand did
          he ever bean a Secret Service man. My topic tonight is a more sober
          one of concern to publishers as well as editors.
          >
          > I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a
          common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to
          illuminate that challenge for some; but the dimensions of its threat
          have loomed large on the horizon for many years. Whatever our hopes
          may be for the future--for reducing this threat or living with it--
          there is no escaping either the gravity or the totality of its
          challenge to our survival and to our security--a challenge that
          confronts us in unaccustomed ways in every sphere of human activity.
          >
          > This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of
          direct concern both to the press and to the President--two
          requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which
          must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national
          peril. I refer, first, to the need for far greater public
          information; and, second, to the need for far greater official
          secrecy.
          >
          > The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society;
          and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret
          societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided
          long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment
          of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to
          justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat
          of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even
          today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation
          if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave
          danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized
          upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of
          official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit
          to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my
          Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or
          military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to
          censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to
          withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to
          know.
          >
          > But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in
          the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the
          nature of our country's peril. In time of war, the government and
          the press have customarily joined in an effort, based largely on
          self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy.
          In time of "clear and present danger," the courts have held that
          even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the
          public's need for national security.
          >
          > Today no war has been declared--and however fierce the struggle
          may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way
          of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are
          advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in
          danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been
          crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.
          >
          > If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes
          the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that
          no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are
          awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only
          say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has
          never been more imminent.
          >
          > It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in
          missions--by the government, by the people, by every businessman or
          labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the
          world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily
          on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on
          infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of
          elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by
          night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted
          vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly
          knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic,
          intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
          >
          > its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are
          buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No
          expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is
          revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time
          discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.
          >
          > Nevertheless, every democracy recognizes the necessary restraints
          of national security-and the question remains whether those
          restraints need to be more strictly observed if we are to oppose
          this kind of attack as well as outright invasion.
          >
          > For the facts of the matter are that this nation's foes have
          openly boasted of acquiring through our newspapers information they
          would otherwise hire agents to acquire through theft, bribery or
          espionage; that details of this nation's covert preparations to
          counter the enemy's covert operations have been available to every
          newspaper reader, friend and foe alike; that the size, the strength,
          the location and the nature of our forces and weapons, and our plans
          and strategy for their use, have all been pinpointed in the press
          and other news media to a degree sufficient to satisfy any foreign
          power; and that, in at least one case, the publication of details
          concerning a secret mechanism whereby satellites were followed
          required its alteration at the expense of considerable time and
          money.
          >
          > The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic,
          responsible and well-meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare,
          they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the
          absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of
          journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question
          tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted.
          >
          > That question is for you alone to answer. No public official
          should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its
          restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to
          the Nation, in considering all of the responsibilities that we now
          bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities, if
          I did not commend this problem to your attention, and urge its
          thoughtful consideration.
          >
          > On many earlier occasions, I have said-and your newspapers have
          constantly said-that these are times that appeal to every citizen's
          sense of sacrifice and self-discipline. They call out to every
          citizen to weigh his rights and comforts against his obligations to
          the common good. I cannot now believe that those citizens who serve
          in the newspaper business consider themselves exempt from that
          appeal.
          >
          > I have no intention of establishing a new Office of War
          Information to govern the flow of news. I am not suggesting any new
          forms of censorship or new types of security classifications. I have
          no easy answer to the dilemma that I have posed, and would not seek
          to impose it if I had one. But I am asking the members of the
          newspaper profession and the industry in this country to reexamine
          their own responsibilities, to consider the degree and the nature of
          the present danger, and to heed the duty of self-restraint which
          that danger imposes upon us all.
          >
          > Every newspaper now asks itself, with respect to every story: "Is
          it news?" All I suggest is that you add the question: "Is it in the
          interest of the national security?" And I hope that every group in
          America-unions and businessmen and public officials at every level--
          will ask the same question of their endeavors, and subject their
          actions to this same exacting test.
          >
          > And should the press of America consider and recommend the
          voluntary assumption of specific new steps or machinery, I can
          assure you that we will cooperate whole-heartedly with those
          recommendations.
          >
          > Perhaps there will be no recommendations. Perhaps there is no
          answer to the dilemma faced by a free and open society in a cold and
          secret war. In times of peace, any discussion of this subject, and
          any action that results, are both painful and without precedent. But
          this is a time of peace and peril which knows no precedent in
          history.
          >
          > It is the unprecedented nature of this challenge that also gives
          rise to your second obligation--an obligation which I share. And
          that is our obligation to inform and alert the American people--to
          make certain that they possess all the facts that they need, and
          understand them as well--the perils, the prospects, the purposes of
          our program and the choices that we face.
          >
          > No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from
          that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes
          support or opposition. And both are necessary. I am not asking your
          newspapers to support the Administration, but I .am asking your help
          in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American
          people. For I have complete confidence in the response and
          dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed.
          >
          > I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers--I
          welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its
          errors; for, as a wise man once said: "An error doesn't become a
          mistake until you refuse to correct it." We intend to accept full
          responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out
          when we miss them.
          >
          > Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no
          country can succeed-and no republic can survive. That is why the
          Athenian law-maker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to
          shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by
          the First Amendment--the only business in America specifically
          protected by the Constitution--not primarily to amuse and entertain,
          not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to
          simply "give the public what it wants"--but to inform, to arouse, to
          reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our
          crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate and sometimes even
          anger public opinion.
          >
          > This means greater coverage and analysis of international news--
          for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and
          local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the
          news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that
          government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you
          with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits
          of national security--and we intend to do it.
          >
          > It was early in the Seventeenth Century that Francis Bacon
          remarked on three recent inventions already transforming the world:
          the compass, gunpowder and the printing press. Now the links between
          the nations first forged by the compass have made us all citizens of
          the world, the hopes and threats of one becoming the hopes and
          threats of us all. In that one world's efforts to live together, the
          evolution of gunpowder to its ultimate limit has warned mankind of
          the terrible consequences of failure.
          >
          > And so it is to the printing press--to the recorder of man's
          deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news--that
          we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help
          man will be what he was born to be: free and independent.
          > -
          >
          > peace,
          > -KEV
          > ======end transmission======
          >
        • Dr.KEV
          Your response is typical of what members like Bush and Kerry say. Listen to this and tell me Kerry wasn t stuck in there just to concede and squash any vote
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Your response is typical of what members like Bush and Kerry say.

            Listen to this and tell me Kerry wasn't stuck in there just to concede and squash any vote fraud investigation!

            http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/misc/061102kpfk-SH-tuc-miller.mp3
            (2 talks, 60 min. total)

            Your lack of powers of deduction belie the fact that the quality of education and level of intelligence in law enforcement is more wanting since WoD, than ever.

            It doesn't take much smarts to bust drug users. It takes a little intelligence, a lot of patriotism, and a shitload of courage to actually investigate and convict the people in this country who are seeing the $100s of billions in prohibition profits.

            The thin blue line has become the fat Red (communist police state) line.

            I've seen the enemy, and you are it, bill

            Think. Be a patriot. Don't be a brown-shirted bush brown-noser. It is up to you who you choose to be. If the shoe fits wear it. Don't whine about name calling. Be a free American or be one of those who wear the boots that stomp on human faces forever. Get a clue. Do the right thing. As bad as illegal immigration is, it isn't the poor migrant workers' fault. You have to look upstairs to find the culprits. Fish rots from the head.

            While you may not be worththe time I spend on you, my country is.

            peace,
            -KEV

            At 08:20 AM 11/2/2006 -0000, you wrote:

            >Skull and Bones is a big zero, be serious.
            >
            >Bill
            >
          • billtrc
            Whatever medication you re on needs to be tripled. All talk from your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and this post of yours prove it.
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk from
              your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and
              this post of yours prove it.

              This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to stay
              here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other side
              of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.

              Bill
              -------------------------------------------------------------------





              --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Your response is typical of what members like Bush and Kerry say.
              >
              > Listen to this and tell me Kerry wasn't stuck in there just to
              concede and squash any vote fraud investigation!
              >
              > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/misc/061102kpfk-SH-tuc-miller.mp3
              > (2 talks, 60 min. total)
              >
              > Your lack of powers of deduction belie the fact that the quality
              of education and level of intelligence in law enforcement is more
              wanting since WoD, than ever.
              >
              > It doesn't take much smarts to bust drug users. It takes a little
              intelligence, a lot of patriotism, and a shitload of courage to
              actually investigate and convict the people in this country who are
              seeing the $100s of billions in prohibition profits.
              >
              > The thin blue line has become the fat Red (communist police state)
              line.
              >
              > I've seen the enemy, and you are it, bill
              >
              > Think. Be a patriot. Don't be a brown-shirted bush brown-noser. It
              is up to you who you choose to be. If the shoe fits wear it. Don't
              whine about name calling. Be a free American or be one of those who
              wear the boots that stomp on human faces forever. Get a clue. Do the
              right thing. As bad as illegal immigration is, it isn't the poor
              migrant workers' fault. You have to look upstairs to find the
              culprits. Fish rots from the head.
              >
              > While you may not be worththe time I spend on you, my country is.
              >
              > peace,
              > -KEV
              >
              > At 08:20 AM 11/2/2006 -0000, you wrote:
              >
              > >Skull and Bones is a big zero, be serious.
              > >
              > >Bill
              > >
              >
            • Dr.KEV
              Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn t have the courage, as you put it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you put it, to live in the states for many years, as well.


                At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk from
                >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and
                >this post of yours prove it.
                >
                >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to stay
                >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other side
                >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                >
                >Bill
                >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
              • Dr.KEV
                It isn t like I make this stuff up. Obviously, I ve studied the topic a bit more than you have. So have these guys: http://www.spitfirelist.com/RA/F-574a.rm
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  It isn't like I make this stuff up. Obviously, I've studied the topic a bit more than you have. So have these guys:

                  http://www.spitfirelist.com/RA/F-574a.rm
                  http://www.spitfirelist.com/RA/F-574b.rm

                  or
                  (lower sound quality, but mp3 format)
                  http://www.spitfirelist.com/mp3/F_574a.mp3
                  http://www.spitfirelist.com/mp3/F_574b.mp3

                  Brand New Interview with new info!
                  Dave Emory and Dan Hopsicker discuss heroin kingpins.


                  At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                  >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk from
                  >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and
                  >this post of yours prove it.
                  >
                  >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to stay
                  >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other side
                  >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                  >
                  >Bill
                  >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Your response is typical of what members like Bush and Kerry say.
                  >>
                  >> Listen to this and tell me Kerry wasn't stuck in there just to
                  >concede and squash any vote fraud investigation!
                  >>
                  >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/misc/061102kpfk-SH-tuc-miller.mp3
                  >> (2 talks, 60 min. total)
                  >>
                  >> Your lack of powers of deduction belie the fact that the quality
                  >of education and level of intelligence in law enforcement is more
                  >wanting since WoD, than ever.
                  >>
                  >> It doesn't take much smarts to bust drug users. It takes a little
                  >intelligence, a lot of patriotism, and a shitload of courage to
                  >actually investigate and convict the people in this country who are
                  >seeing the $100s of billions in prohibition profits.
                  >>
                  >> The thin blue line has become the fat Red (communist police state)
                  >line.
                  >>
                  >> I've seen the enemy, and you are it, bill
                  >>
                  >> Think. Be a patriot. Don't be a brown-shirted bush brown-noser. It
                  >is up to you who you choose to be. If the shoe fits wear it. Don't
                  >whine about name calling. Be a free American or be one of those who
                  >wear the boots that stomp on human faces forever. Get a clue. Do the
                  >right thing. As bad as illegal immigration is, it isn't the poor
                  >migrant workers' fault. You have to look upstairs to find the
                  >culprits. Fish rots from the head.
                  >>
                  >> While you may not be worththe time I spend on you, my country is.
                  >>
                  >> peace,
                  >> -KEV
                  >>
                  >> At 08:20 AM 11/2/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                  >>
                  >> >Skull and Bones is a big zero, be serious.
                  >> >
                  >> >Bill
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • billtrc
                  I could care less about Ben, I m talking about you, nice try at a deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn t agree with your stance you can
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at a
                    deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree with
                    your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs from
                    your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me all
                    the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off, it's
                    weak and I'm sure you know it.

                    I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                    you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                    really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off for
                    love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on that
                    so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed and
                    bash this country.

                    It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.

                    Bill

                    --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you put
                    it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                    >
                    >
                    > At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                    > >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk from
                    > >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and
                    > >this post of yours prove it.
                    > >
                    > >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to
                    stay
                    > >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other side
                    > >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                    > >
                    > >Bill
                    > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • billtrc
                    Your problem is two-fold. First you talk and never listen because you post some things I ve even agreed with as if I hadn t. I m not only well read on the
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Your problem is two-fold. First you talk and never listen because
                      you post some things I've even agreed with as if I hadn't. I'm not
                      only well read on the subject, I've been in the business Kev, have
                      you?

                      Secondly you believe apparently everything you hear from what many
                      people refer to as "alternative" sources because you're predisposed
                      to agree with whatever they say. I'm not, I've been an investigator
                      all my adult life and like to hear both sides of an issue. You on
                      the other hand are completely blinded by one side.

                      There is always wiggle-room and don't forget it. Everyone has a
                      little dirt on their hands and an agenda, your boys too.

                      Bill
                      ---------------------------------------------------------------


                      --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > It isn't like I make this stuff up. Obviously, I've studied the
                      topic a bit more than you have. So have these guys:
                      >
                      > http://www.spitfirelist.com/RA/F-574a.rm
                      > http://www.spitfirelist.com/RA/F-574b.rm
                      >
                      > or
                      > (lower sound quality, but mp3 format)
                      > http://www.spitfirelist.com/mp3/F_574a.mp3
                      > http://www.spitfirelist.com/mp3/F_574b.mp3
                      >
                      > Brand New Interview with new info!
                      > Dave Emory and Dan Hopsicker discuss heroin kingpins.
                      >
                      >
                      > At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                      > >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk from
                      > >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and
                      > >this post of yours prove it.
                      > >
                      > >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to
                      stay
                      > >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other side
                      > >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                      > >
                      > >Bill
                      > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> Your response is typical of what members like Bush and Kerry
                      say.
                      > >>
                      > >> Listen to this and tell me Kerry wasn't stuck in there just to
                      > >concede and squash any vote fraud investigation!
                      > >>
                      > >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/misc/061102kpfk-SH-tuc-miller.mp3
                      > >> (2 talks, 60 min. total)
                      > >>
                      > >> Your lack of powers of deduction belie the fact that the quality
                      > >of education and level of intelligence in law enforcement is more
                      > >wanting since WoD, than ever.
                      > >>
                      > >> It doesn't take much smarts to bust drug users. It takes a
                      little
                      > >intelligence, a lot of patriotism, and a shitload of courage to
                      > >actually investigate and convict the people in this country who
                      are
                      > >seeing the $100s of billions in prohibition profits.
                      > >>
                      > >> The thin blue line has become the fat Red (communist police
                      state)
                      > >line.
                      > >>
                      > >> I've seen the enemy, and you are it, bill
                      > >>
                      > >> Think. Be a patriot. Don't be a brown-shirted bush brown-noser.
                      It
                      > >is up to you who you choose to be. If the shoe fits wear it. Don't
                      > >whine about name calling. Be a free American or be one of those
                      who
                      > >wear the boots that stomp on human faces forever. Get a clue. Do
                      the
                      > >right thing. As bad as illegal immigration is, it isn't the poor
                      > >migrant workers' fault. You have to look upstairs to find the
                      > >culprits. Fish rots from the head.
                      > >>
                      > >> While you may not be worththe time I spend on you, my country is.
                      > >>
                      > >> peace,
                      > >> -KEV
                      > >>
                      > >> At 08:20 AM 11/2/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> >Skull and Bones is a big zero, be serious.
                      > >> >
                      > >> >Bill
                      > >> >
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Dr.KEV
                      Bill your prejudice toward anyone who uses drugs is so stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure projection. I provide you with a wealth
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location here plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one who hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of those who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an investigation into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.

                        It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin. You seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to justify your existence.

                        If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge for you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology here, after all....

                        30 Oct 06 Monday

                        3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It

                        World Affairs Council
                        1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                        www.itsyourworld.org

                        Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith and politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America has hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy. Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you pro-war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for each of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no security apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military supremacy alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on everyone having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.

                        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and Conservatives Think

                        UCTV: UC San Diego
                        58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                        www.uctv.tv

                        UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics George Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by using language targeted to people's values instead of their support for specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by the Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture Series" [Public Affairs]

                        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!

                        9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                        http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                        A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions about the official explanation behind 9/11.
                        http://www.oss.org

                        Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                        http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                        Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing revulsion at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and prevent any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of Habeas Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a nationally syndicated radio broadcast.

                        Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                        http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                        Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History Professor Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush regime, the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's new book A Question of Torture


                        PoD,
                        -KEV




                        At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                        >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at a
                        >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree with
                        >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs from
                        >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me all
                        >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off, it's
                        >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                        >
                        >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                        >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                        >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off for
                        >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on that
                        >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed and
                        >bash this country.
                        >
                        >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                        >
                        >Bill
                        >
                        >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you put
                        >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                        >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk from
                        >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke, and
                        >> >this post of yours prove it.
                        >> >
                        >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to
                        >stay
                        >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other side
                        >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                        >> >
                        >> >Bill
                        >> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • billtrc
                        Threaten to investigate you? You re out of your mind Kev, as if I cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a person with your habits,
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                          cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                          person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming from.
                          As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                          claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                          they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                          seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims and
                          act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are simply
                          dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are bad
                          for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed makes
                          you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one trick
                          pony.

                          Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a few
                          enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing the
                          craziness of others on this site and other places on the net, causes
                          someone like me to be careful.

                          However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're here.
                          I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                          plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good idea.
                          You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and keep
                          them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on the
                          audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                          impressed.

                          By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                          Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                          and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've looked
                          at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't care
                          about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                          personal pride.

                          I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                          little zingers out about your education while crying about how your
                          profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.

                          People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to come
                          get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got a
                          discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other type
                          of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do. Why
                          is that?

                          As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                          have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                          three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and promotional
                          chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?

                          You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?

                          Bill
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------



                          --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                          stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                          projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                          backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                          improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location here
                          plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                          who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one who
                          hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of those
                          who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an investigation
                          into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                          argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                          >
                          > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin. You
                          seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                          Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                          operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                          everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                          justify your existence.
                          >
                          > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                          these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge for
                          you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology here,
                          after all....
                          >
                          > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                          >
                          > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left
                          Doesn't Get It
                          >
                          > World Affairs Council
                          > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                          > www.itsyourworld.org
                          >
                          > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith and
                          politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                          Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America has
                          hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                          hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                          separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                          Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you pro-
                          war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and
                          pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                          security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                          put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for each
                          of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                          integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                          life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no security
                          apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military supremacy
                          alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on everyone
                          having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                          threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                          >
                          > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          >
                          > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                          Conservatives Think
                          >
                          > UCTV: UC San Diego
                          > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                          > www.uctv.tv
                          >
                          > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics George
                          Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by using
                          language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                          specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by the
                          Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                          Series" [Public Affairs]
                          >
                          > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          >
                          > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                          >
                          > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                          > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                          > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                          maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                          that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                          U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions about
                          the official explanation behind 9/11.
                          > http://www.oss.org
                          >
                          > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                          > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                          > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                          essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing revulsion
                          at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and prevent
                          any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of Habeas
                          Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                          nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                          >
                          > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                          > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                          > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History Professor
                          Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush regime,
                          the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's new
                          book A Question of Torture
                          >
                          >
                          > PoD,
                          > -KEV
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                          > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at a
                          > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree with
                          > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                          from
                          > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me
                          all
                          > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off,
                          it's
                          > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                          > >
                          > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                          > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                          > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                          for
                          > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                          that
                          > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed and
                          > >bash this country.
                          > >
                          > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                          > >
                          > >Bill
                          > >
                          > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                          put
                          > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                          > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                          from
                          > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                          and
                          > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                          > >> >
                          > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to
                          > >stay
                          > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other
                          side
                          > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                          > >> >
                          > >> >Bill
                          > >> >----------------------------------------------------------------
                          ---
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • lilah
                          So much for Bill s promise to be nice. I find it interesting that after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the one person he claims to
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting that after so may people  have requested  to meet Bill in person, the one person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.

                            billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote:
                            Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                            cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                            person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming from.
                            As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                            claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                            they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                            seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims and
                            act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are simply
                            dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are bad
                            for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed makes
                            you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one trick
                            pony.

                            Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a few
                            enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing the
                            craziness of others on this site and other places on the net, causes
                            someone like me to be careful.

                            However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're here.
                            I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                            plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good idea.
                            You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and keep
                            them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on the
                            audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                            impressed.

                            By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                            Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                            and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've looked
                            at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't care
                            about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                            personal pride.

                            I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                            little zingers out about your education while crying about how your
                            profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.

                            People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to come
                            get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got a
                            discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other type
                            of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do. Why
                            is that?

                            As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                            have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                            three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and promotional
                            chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?

                            You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?

                            Bill
                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                            --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                            stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                            projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                            backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                            improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location here
                            plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                            who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one who
                            hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of those
                            who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an investigation
                            into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                            argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                            >
                            > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin. You
                            seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                            Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                            operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                            everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                            justify your existence.
                            >
                            > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                            these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge for
                            you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology here,
                            after all....
                            >
                            > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                            >
                            > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left
                            Doesn't Get It
                            >
                            > World Affairs Council
                            > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                            > www.itsyourworld. org
                            >
                            > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith and
                            politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                            Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America has
                            hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                            hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                            separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                            Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you pro-
                            war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and
                            pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                            security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                            put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for each
                            of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                            integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                            life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no security
                            apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military supremacy
                            alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on everyone
                            having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                            threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                            >
                            > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-774912411 3435101196
                            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
                            >
                            > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                            Conservatives Think
                            >
                            > UCTV: UC San Diego
                            > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                            > www.uctv.tv
                            >
                            > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics George
                            Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by using
                            language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                            specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by the
                            Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                            Series" [Public Affairs]
                            >
                            > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-311441273 5990235786
                            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~
                            >
                            > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                            >
                            > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                            > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/271006stee le.mp3
                            > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                            maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                            that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                            U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions about
                            the official explanation behind 9/11.
                            > http://www.oss. org
                            >
                            > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                            > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/231006vida l.mp3
                            > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                            essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing revulsion
                            at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and prevent
                            any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of Habeas
                            Corpus and the administration' s coup de 'tat of America on a
                            nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                            >
                            > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                            > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/171006mcco y.mp3
                            > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History Professor
                            Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush regime,
                            the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's new
                            book A Question of Torture
                            >
                            >
                            > PoD,
                            > -KEV
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                            > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at a
                            > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree with
                            > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                            from
                            > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me
                            all
                            > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off,
                            it's
                            > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                            > >
                            > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                            > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                            > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                            for
                            > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                            that
                            > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed and
                            > >bash this country.
                            > >
                            > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                            > >
                            > >Bill
                            > >
                            > >--- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                            put
                            > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                            > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                            from
                            > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                            and
                            > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                            > >> >
                            > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to
                            > >stay
                            > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other
                            side
                            > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                            > >> >
                            > >> >Bill
                            > >> >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                            ---
                            > >> >
                            > >> >
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • billtrc
                            Who s requested to meet me in person? Steve gave up on the golf over my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I m sometimes posting from here
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Who's requested to meet me in person? Steve gave up on the golf over
                              my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I'm
                              sometimes posting from here and sometimes other places. I'll be gone
                              next week for four days again and if I post it will be from a lap top.
                              I live in the Eastern San Gabriel Valley, where do you live?

                              You've never requested to meet me. I asked Bolt to look me up and he
                              didn't and I'm not shy about meeting anyone if there was something to
                              be gained from it. There actually wouldn't be anything to gain by
                              meeting Bolt. I actually considered Steve to be a possibility but it
                              didn't pan out. I willl admit though that I'm naturally suspicious
                              of people on the internet, you have to be. I also don't have
                              anything in common with anyone here, especially moaners, groaners and
                              victims and I will not be nice to someone like you or Victor who fit
                              into that definition and hate America.

                              You don't make the rules regarding me, why would you think you could?

                              Bill
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------

                              --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, lilah <lilahlemon@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting that
                              after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the one
                              person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.
                              >
                              > billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote: Threaten to investigate you?
                              You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                              > cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                              > person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming from.
                              > As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                              > claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                              > they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but
                              you
                              > seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                              and
                              > act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are simply
                              > dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                              bad
                              > for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                              makes
                              > you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one trick
                              > pony.
                              >
                              > Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a few
                              > enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                              the
                              > craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                              causes
                              > someone like me to be careful.
                              >
                              > However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                              here.
                              > I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                              > plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                              idea.
                              > You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                              keep
                              > them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                              the
                              > audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                              > impressed.
                              >
                              > By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                              > Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                              > and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've looked
                              > at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                              care
                              > about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                              > personal pride.
                              >
                              > I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                              > little zingers out about your education while crying about how your
                              > profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                              >
                              > People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                              come
                              > get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got a
                              > discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other type
                              > of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                              Why
                              > is that?
                              >
                              > As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                              > have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                              > three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                              promotional
                              > chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                              >
                              > You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                              >
                              > Bill
                              > ----------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              > --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                              > stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                              > projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                              > backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                              > improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location here
                              > plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                              > who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                              who
                              > hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of those
                              > who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                              investigation
                              > into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                              > argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                              > >
                              > > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                              You
                              > seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                              > Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                              > operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                              > everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                              > justify your existence.
                              > >
                              > > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                              > these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                              for
                              > you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                              here,
                              > after all....
                              > >
                              > > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                              > >
                              > > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                              Left
                              > Doesn't Get It
                              > >
                              > > World Affairs Council
                              > > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                              > > www.itsyourworld.org
                              > >
                              > > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                              and
                              > politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                              > Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America has
                              > hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                              > hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                              > separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                              > Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                              pro-
                              > war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and
                              > pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                              > security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                              > put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                              each
                              > of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                              > integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                              > life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no security
                              > apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                              supremacy
                              > alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                              everyone
                              > having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                              > threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                              > >
                              > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                              > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              > >
                              > > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                              > Conservatives Think
                              > >
                              > > UCTV: UC San Diego
                              > > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                              > > www.uctv.tv
                              > >
                              > > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics George
                              > Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                              using
                              > language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                              > specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                              the
                              > Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                              > Series" [Public Affairs]
                              > >
                              > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                              > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              > >
                              > > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                              > >
                              > > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                              > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                              > > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                              > maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                              > that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                              > U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                              about
                              > the official explanation behind 9/11.
                              > > http://www.oss.org
                              > >
                              > > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                              > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                              > > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                              > essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                              revulsion
                              > at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                              prevent
                              > any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                              Habeas
                              > Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                              > nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                              > >
                              > > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                              > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                              > > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                              Professor
                              > Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush regime,
                              > the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                              new
                              > book A Question of Torture
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > PoD,
                              > > -KEV
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                              > > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at
                              a
                              > > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                              with
                              > > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                              > from
                              > > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me
                              > all
                              > > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off,
                              > it's
                              > > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                              > > >
                              > > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                              > > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                              > > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                              > for
                              > > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                              > that
                              > > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                              and
                              > > >bash this country.
                              > > >
                              > > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                              > > >
                              > > >Bill
                              > > >
                              > > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                              > put
                              > > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                              > > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                              > from
                              > > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                              > and
                              > > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                              to
                              > > >stay
                              > > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other
                              > side
                              > > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> >Bill
                              > > >> >----------------------------------------------------------
                              > ---
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> >
                              > > >>
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • lilah
                              I live in San Bernardino, if you would like to come over, send me a private message and I ll get you in touch with my husband and the 2 of you can work out the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 3, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I live in San Bernardino, if you would like to come over, send me a private message and I'll get you in touch with my husband and the 2 of you can work out the arrangements. He is familiar with your posts and would love to have a talk with you.

                                billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote:
                                Who's requested to meet me in person? Steve gave up on the golf over
                                my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I'm
                                sometimes posting from here and sometimes other places. I'll be gone
                                next week for four days again and if I post it will be from a lap top.
                                I live in the Eastern San Gabriel Valley, where do you live?

                                You've never requested to meet me. I asked Bolt to look me up and he
                                didn't and I'm not shy about meeting anyone if there was something to
                                be gained from it. There actually wouldn't be anything to gain by
                                meeting Bolt. I actually considered Steve to be a possibility but it
                                didn't pan out. I willl admit though that I'm naturally suspicious
                                of people on the internet, you have to be. I also don't have
                                anything in common with anyone here, especially moaners, groaners and
                                victims and I will not be nice to someone like you or Victor who fit
                                into that definition and hate America.

                                You don't make the rules regarding me, why would you think you could?

                                Bill
                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                                --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, lilah <lilahlemon@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                > So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting that
                                after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the one
                                person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.
                                >
                                > billtrc <billtrc@... > wrote: Threaten to investigate you?
                                You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                > cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                > person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming from.
                                > As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                > claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                                > they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but
                                you
                                > seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                                and
                                > act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are simply
                                > dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                                bad
                                > for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                makes
                                > you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one trick
                                > pony.
                                >
                                > Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a few
                                > enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                                the
                                > craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                causes
                                > someone like me to be careful.
                                >
                                > However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                here.
                                > I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                > plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                idea.
                                > You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                keep
                                > them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                the
                                > audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                > impressed.
                                >
                                > By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                > Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                                > and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've looked
                                > at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                                care
                                > about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                > personal pride.
                                >
                                > I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                > little zingers out about your education while crying about how your
                                > profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                >
                                > People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                                come
                                > get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got a
                                > discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other type
                                > of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                                Why
                                > is that?
                                >
                                > As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                > have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                > three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                promotional
                                > chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                >
                                > You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                >
                                > Bill
                                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                >
                                > --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                > stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                > projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                > backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                                > improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location here
                                > plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                                > who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                                who
                                > hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of those
                                > who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                investigation
                                > into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                > argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                > >
                                > > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                                You
                                > seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                > Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                > operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                > everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                > justify your existence.
                                > >
                                > > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                > these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                                for
                                > you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                here,
                                > after all....
                                > >
                                > > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                > >
                                > > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                Left
                                > Doesn't Get It
                                > >
                                > > World Affairs Council
                                > > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                > > www.itsyourworld. org
                                > >
                                > > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                                and
                                > politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                                > Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America has
                                > hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                > hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                > separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                                > Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                                pro-
                                > war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and
                                > pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                > security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                                > put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                each
                                > of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                > integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                                > life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no security
                                > apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                supremacy
                                > alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                everyone
                                > having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                > threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                > >
                                > > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-774912411 3435101196
                                > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
                                > >
                                > > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                > Conservatives Think
                                > >
                                > > UCTV: UC San Diego
                                > > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                > > www.uctv.tv
                                > >
                                > > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics George
                                > Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                using
                                > language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                > specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                                the
                                > Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                                > Series" [Public Affairs]
                                > >
                                > > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-311441273 5990235786
                                > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~
                                > >
                                > > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                > >
                                > > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/271006stee le.mp3
                                > > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                > maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                                > that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                > U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                about
                                > the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                > > http://www.oss. org
                                > >
                                > > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/231006vida l.mp3
                                > > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                > essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                revulsion
                                > at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                prevent
                                > any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                Habeas
                                > Corpus and the administration' s coup de 'tat of America on a
                                > nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                > >
                                > > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/171006mcco y.mp3
                                > > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                Professor
                                > Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush regime,
                                > the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                                new
                                > book A Question of Torture
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > PoD,
                                > > -KEV
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                > > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at
                                a
                                > > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                with
                                > > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                                > from
                                > > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me
                                > all
                                > > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off,
                                > it's
                                > > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                > > >
                                > > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                > > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                                > > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                                > for
                                > > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                > that
                                > > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                                and
                                > > >bash this country.
                                > > >
                                > > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                > > >
                                > > >Bill
                                > > >
                                > > >--- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                > > >>
                                > > >>
                                > > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                                > put
                                > > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                > > >>
                                > > >>
                                > > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                > > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                > from
                                > > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                > and
                                > > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                                to
                                > > >stay
                                > > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other
                                > side
                                > > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> >Bill
                                > > >> >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                                > ---
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> >
                                > > >>
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >


                              • billtrc
                                Sorry Lilah, I m not interested for a number of reasons. First off is that we are as opposite as can be on issues and I will never see things your way and
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 4, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Sorry Lilah, I'm not interested for a number of reasons. First off
                                  is that we are as opposite as can be on issues and I will never see
                                  things your way and you'll never see things mine. I'm sure that
                                  would be the same case with your husband. We have no common ground
                                  and any meeting would be a waste of time.

                                  Secondly, as I've said, trusting people on the net, especially those
                                  who are openly hostile to you is not a good idea. I am naturally
                                  suspicious of people on message boards, but then again I have a
                                  naturally suspicious mind, probably due to my work. I never
                                  approached Steve with the idea to meet, that was his. Kev is a non-
                                  issue because he's across the ocean, and when I screw with him about
                                  looking me up it's basically to do just that.

                                  Thirdly is that I currently work for the feds and I've said that
                                  before. As it's in a law enforcement type of capacity, though
                                  nothing like what I did as a street cop, I can't put myself in a
                                  position where I'd be with someone who lost their temper, or where I
                                  lost mine. I could see that as a possibility if I met with you
                                  and/or your husband not knowing either of you and knowing you're
                                  hostile towards me and as my wife is reading this she is saying she
                                  is dead set against this idea and she is also in law enforcement.

                                  As it stands now I don't think it's a good idea but actually
                                  appreciate the offer.

                                  I still disagree with just about everything you say, the manner in
                                  which you post and feel you and Victor play the victim card way to
                                  often.

                                  Bill
                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------




                                  --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, lilah <lilahlemon@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I live in San Bernardino, if you would like to come over, send me a
                                  private message and I'll get you in touch with my husband and the 2
                                  of you can work out the arrangements. He is familiar with your posts
                                  and would love to have a talk with you.
                                  >
                                  > billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote: Who's requested to meet me in
                                  person? Steve gave up on the golf over
                                  > my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I'm
                                  > sometimes posting from here and sometimes other places. I'll be
                                  gone
                                  > next week for four days again and if I post it will be from a lap
                                  top.
                                  > I live in the Eastern San Gabriel Valley, where do you live?
                                  >
                                  > You've never requested to meet me. I asked Bolt to look me up and
                                  he
                                  > didn't and I'm not shy about meeting anyone if there was something
                                  to
                                  > be gained from it. There actually wouldn't be anything to gain by
                                  > meeting Bolt. I actually considered Steve to be a possibility but
                                  it
                                  > didn't pan out. I willl admit though that I'm naturally suspicious
                                  > of people on the internet, you have to be. I also don't have
                                  > anything in common with anyone here, especially moaners, groaners
                                  and
                                  > victims and I will not be nice to someone like you or Victor who
                                  fit
                                  > into that definition and hate America.
                                  >
                                  > You don't make the rules regarding me, why would you think you
                                  could?
                                  >
                                  > Bill
                                  > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, lilah <lilahlemon@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting that
                                  > after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the one
                                  > person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.
                                  > >
                                  > > billtrc <billtrc@> wrote: Threaten to investigate you?
                                  > You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                  > > cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                  > > person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                  from.
                                  > > As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                  > > claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just
                                  feel
                                  > > they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but
                                  > you
                                  > > seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                                  > and
                                  > > act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are
                                  simply
                                  > > dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                                  > bad
                                  > > for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                  > makes
                                  > > you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                  trick
                                  > > pony.
                                  > >
                                  > > Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                  few
                                  > > enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                                  > the
                                  > > craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                  > causes
                                  > > someone like me to be careful.
                                  > >
                                  > > However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                  > here.
                                  > > I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                  > > plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                  > idea.
                                  > > You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                  > keep
                                  > > them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                  > the
                                  > > audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                  > > impressed.
                                  > >
                                  > > By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                  > > Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm
                                  smart
                                  > > and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                  looked
                                  > > at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                                  > care
                                  > > about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                  > > personal pride.
                                  > >
                                  > > I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                  > > little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                  your
                                  > > profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                  > >
                                  > > People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                                  > come
                                  > > get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got
                                  a
                                  > > discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                  type
                                  > > of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                                  > Why
                                  > > is that?
                                  > >
                                  > > As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                  > > have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                  > > three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                  > promotional
                                  > > chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                  > >
                                  > > You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill
                                  > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                  > > stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                  > > projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                  > > backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is
                                  certainly
                                  > > improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                  here
                                  > > plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find
                                  out
                                  > > who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                                  > who
                                  > > hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                  those
                                  > > who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                  > investigation
                                  > > into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                  > > argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                                  > You
                                  > > seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                  > > Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                  > > operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                  > > everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                  > > justify your existence.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                  > > these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                                  > for
                                  > > you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                  > here,
                                  > > after all....
                                  > > >
                                  > > > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                  > > >
                                  > > > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                  > Left
                                  > > Doesn't Get It
                                  > > >
                                  > > > World Affairs Council
                                  > > > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                  > > > www.itsyourworld.org
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                                  > and
                                  > > politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book,
                                  God's
                                  > > Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                  has
                                  > > hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                  > > hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                  > > separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public
                                  policy.
                                  > > Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                                  > pro-
                                  > > war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                  and
                                  > > pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                  > > security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had
                                  to
                                  > > put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                  > each
                                  > > of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                  > > integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's
                                  public
                                  > > life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                  security
                                  > > apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                  > supremacy
                                  > > alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                  > everyone
                                  > > having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                  > > threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                  > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  > > >
                                  > > > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                  > > Conservatives Think
                                  > > >
                                  > > > UCTV: UC San Diego
                                  > > > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                  > > > www.uctv.tv
                                  > > >
                                  > > > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                  George
                                  > > Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                  > using
                                  > > language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                  > > specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                                  > the
                                  > > Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison
                                  Lecture
                                  > > Series" [Public Affairs]
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                  > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  > > >
                                  > > > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                  > > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                  > > > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                  > > maintains close relationships with top Google representatives
                                  says
                                  > > that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                  > > U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                  > about
                                  > > the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                  > > > http://www.oss.org
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                  > > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                  > > > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                  > > essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                  > revulsion
                                  > > at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                  > prevent
                                  > > any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                  > Habeas
                                  > > Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                  > > nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                  > > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                  > > > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                  > Professor
                                  > > Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                  regime,
                                  > > the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                                  > new
                                  > > book A Question of Torture
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > PoD,
                                  > > > -KEV
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                  > > > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try
                                  at
                                  > a
                                  > > > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                  > with
                                  > > > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly
                                  bs
                                  > > from
                                  > > > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to
                                  me
                                  > > all
                                  > > > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                  off,
                                  > > it's
                                  > > > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                  > > > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                  it's
                                  > > > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                                  > > for
                                  > > > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                  > > that
                                  > > > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                                  > and
                                  > > > >bash this country.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Bill
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                  > > > >>
                                  > > > >>
                                  > > > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as
                                  you
                                  > > put
                                  > > > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                  > > > >>
                                  > > > >>
                                  > > > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                  > > > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                  > > from
                                  > > > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                  > > and
                                  > > > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                  > > > >> >
                                  > > > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                                  > to
                                  > > > >stay
                                  > > > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                  other
                                  > > side
                                  > > > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                  > > > >> >
                                  > > > >> >Bill
                                  > > > >> >----------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > ---
                                  > > > >> >
                                  > > > >> >
                                  > > > >>
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Dr.KEV
                                  ... Back during my days in Laos it was pretty obvious to me that the people who smoked (the best weed in the world, according to the CIA) exhibited no
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 4, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    At 09:07 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                    >Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                    >cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                    >person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming from.
                                    >As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                    >claims.


                                    Back during my days in Laos it was pretty obvious to me that the people who smoked (the best weed in the world, according to the CIA) exhibited no particular pattern of paranoid behavior. Maybe the paranoia you refer to is another of the results of prohibition that you insist on blaming on drug use. How cruel and unusual!




                                    >I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                                    >they're weak.

                                    Obviously you have no idea what prejudice means, even though you are good at it.

                                    I'm not prejudiced against any bigot who thinks others are inherently weak. One doesn't have to be. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

                                    My experience has been that different people are attracted to drugs for different reasons. Those who consider it a spiritual practice, and those for whom some drug actually provides therapeutic value, tend to be lifelong consumers. Others try them for the thrill effect. These are the sociopathic, thrillseeker types who are attracted to the forbidden fruit aspect. They get an adrenalinerush off it because it is illegal. These criminal types, if they are not smart or connected enough to become successful drug dealers, often become police officers.



                                    I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                                    >seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims and
                                    >act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject.

                                    Can you even pronounce psychopharmacology? Functional addict? You mean like someone who drinks coffee several times a day? Or Rush Limbaugh? While I may get a bit hysterical when some idiot with a badge claims to be some kind of neurophysiology expert while ignoring all the imortant facts (present company excepted, of course), and insteaed incessantly tries to suggest that I am the mentally unstable one. You are the proponent of torture here, not me.

                                    In other words you would have people believe as you do, that it is better for "Oil Ciaduh" to sell tainted heroin in every high school in the country, than it is for it to be sold by licensed pharmacists who naturally refuse to sell it to kids, if for no other reason than to avoid having their license revoked.

                                    Who is the nutcase here, really?

                                    >You are simply
                                    >dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are bad
                                    >for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed makes
                                    >you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one trick
                                    >pony.

                                    Spew all the lies and mythology you want. It only goes to prove that you are not honest. And/or you are grossly misinformed. And/or you make money off of prohibition. Oh, that's right, you made a career out of it. Ensuring Oil Ciaduh could sell its heroin to kids for hundreds of times (tens of thousands of percent) what it costs to produce.

                                    You are the one who has the selective memory. You don't seem to remember that the CIA, whose function is to make sure stock market is healthy, admitted aiding the illegal importation of thousands of tons of cocaine? Thus ensuring a constant influx of hundreds of billions of dollars per year of laundered prohibition profits into the stock exchange. In other words, since Reagan took office, all of the old capital in the stock market was removed nd replaced by a) pension funds, and b) prohibition profits. Meaning, at the drop of a hat, the folks who've been empoverishing you by selling dope to your kids, can pull their cask out, make the market crash, andhave everyone loose all their pension money. Pretty kewl scam, eh? Too bad the CIA wasn't smart or corrupt enough to think of that 40 years ago. We'd be up sh*t creek without a paddle by now. Probably resorting to wars of aggression just to divert attention away from domestic issues like the disappearance of the middle class.

                                    Now, the middle class is mostly made up of people who profit from war and prohibition. All the good jobs have left the country or only pay 1/3 of what they did 30 years ago.




                                    >
                                    >Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a few
                                    >enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing the
                                    >craziness of others on this site and other places on the net, causes
                                    >someone like me to be careful.
                                    >
                                    >However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're here.


                                    Can't say as I remember seeing that invitation before, unless it was in reference to busting me for drugs or something like that. Must be the bud after all. Call me parqanoid, but I'd rather meet you somewhere safe like a coffee shop (weed cafe) in A'dam.



                                    >I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                    >plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good idea.
                                    >You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and keep
                                    >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on the
                                    >audience.


                                    So you admit it is you who are the anonymous hypocrite here. When you say "brain impaired remarks" do you mean like this?:

                                    "You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and keep
                                    >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on the
                                    >audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                    >impressed."

                                    Projecting again, perhaps?

                                    >
                                    >By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                    >Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                                    >and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've looked
                                    >at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't care
                                    >about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                    >personal pride.


                                    Maybe this is getting close to the crux of the problem. Let me give you a tip. Normally there are about 6 billion sides to any given issue. Yet you insist on only recognizing 2? We call that "either/or mentality" and recognise that as the root of most problems facing us.

                                    The average cop it follows is a selfish person with self-agrandizing pride?



                                    >
                                    >I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                    >little zingers out about your education while crying about how your
                                    >profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.


                                    Huh? There you go making stuff up again.


                                    >
                                    >People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to come
                                    >get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got a
                                    >discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other type
                                    >of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do. Why
                                    >is that?

                                    Market saturation. Pharma realized they couldn't stop chiropractic by spreading lies and disinformation, because science was showing that DCs could very often get better results on low back hernias than the surgeons could, for a fraction of the cost. Insurance companies began reimbursing for chiro care, having no idea whether they were getting ripped or not. Suddenly chiropractic became one of the cheapest quickest ways to get rich. The colleges got overfilled with people in it for the money. That was the 80s. Then the crunch came around 90 when I got out of school. Insurance companies slashed the ammounts they would reimburse. Supposedly they had collected stats for 10 years and now knew what services were really worth. As little as 10-25% of what the same cases commanded in the 80s.

                                    So what pharma could not do, insurance did. Only it killed the profession with kindness, before putting the screws to it. Now insurance companies, and lawyers dictate everything from prices to scope of practice.

                                    A healthy market share is something like one DC per 20-30K pop. I got out of school in OC to find 1 doc per 2000. That is why there is so much hustling and admittedly tacky promotional schemes going on out there. And why I moved to greener pastures, where my market share is more like 1 DC per 80,000 pop. Here I'm not forced to stand outside the supermarkets, or set up a booth at the swapmeet, and hand out free exam cards.

                                    I even get paid in cash and the patients send in their own insurance forms! And here, everyone has insurance! Hope that helps set things straight about why I live over here. It is the bottom line truth. I'm not running from anything except an unhealthy market.


                                    >
                                    >As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                    >have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                    >three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and promotional
                                    >chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                    >

                                    Got me to smile, but seriously, your offer pales, after one has met several Barry Seal type CIA get-out-of-jail-free cardholding kiloton dope pilots.



                                    >You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                    >
                                    >Bill
                                    >------------------------------------------------------------------


                                    Since I consistently demonstrate the folly of your position and thus advance in the minds of our "audience" the fact that narcs are thugs, I am in no hurry to quit. At least not until the end of the WoD, the reinstatement of the Constitution, and the abolition of state secrecy.

                                    peace,
                                    -KEV




                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                    >stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                    >projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                    >backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                                    >improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location here
                                    >plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                                    >who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one who
                                    >hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of those
                                    >who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an investigation
                                    >into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                    >argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                    >>
                                    >> It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin. You
                                    >seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                    >Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                    >operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                    >everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                    >justify your existence.
                                    >>
                                    >> If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                    >these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge for
                                    >you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology here,
                                    >after all....
                                    >>
                                    >> 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                    >>
                                    >> 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left
                                    >Doesn't Get It
                                    >>
                                    >> World Affairs Council
                                    >> 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                    >> www.itsyourworld.org
                                    >>
                                    >> Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith and
                                    >politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                                    >Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America has
                                    >hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                    >hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                    >separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                                    >Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you pro-
                                    >war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and
                                    >pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                    >security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                                    >put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for each
                                    >of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                    >integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                                    >life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no security
                                    >apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military supremacy
                                    >alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on everyone
                                    >having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                    >threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                    >>
                                    >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    >>
                                    >> 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                    >Conservatives Think
                                    >>
                                    >> UCTV: UC San Diego
                                    >> 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                    >> www.uctv.tv
                                    >>
                                    >> UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics George
                                    >Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by using
                                    >language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                    >specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by the
                                    >Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                                    >Series" [Public Affairs]
                                    >>
                                    >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    >>
                                    >> And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                    >>
                                    >> 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                    >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                    >> A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                    >maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                                    >that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                    >U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions about
                                    >the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                    >> http://www.oss.org
                                    >>
                                    >> Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                    >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                    >> Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                    >essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing revulsion
                                    >at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and prevent
                                    >any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of Habeas
                                    >Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                    >nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                    >>
                                    >> Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                    >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                    >> Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History Professor
                                    >Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush regime,
                                    >the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's new
                                    >book A Question of Torture
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> PoD,
                                    >> -KEV
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                    >> >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at a
                                    >> >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree with
                                    >> >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                                    >from
                                    >> >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to me
                                    >all
                                    >> >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop off,
                                    >it's
                                    >> >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                    >> >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me, it's
                                    >> >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                                    >for
                                    >> >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                    >that
                                    >> >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed and
                                    >> >bash this country.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >Bill
                                    >> >
                                    >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                                    >put
                                    >> >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                    >> >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                    >from
                                    >> >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                    >and
                                    >> >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage to
                                    >> >stay
                                    >> >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the other
                                    >side
                                    >> >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >Bill
                                    >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >---
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • lilah
                                    Well Bill, I understand. I don t think I d feel too comfortable visiting you in your home. However, I see that you really don t know much of my culture. Coming
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 4, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Well Bill, I understand. I don't think I'd feel too comfortable visiting you in your home. However, I see that you really don't know much of my culture. Coming to my home, you would be an honored guest, we would share all that we have with you.
                                       
                                      I don't know what your typical day entails, but  in in mine I interact and communicate peacefully with lot's of people who don't share my beliefs. So that wouldn't be an issue for me. And yeah, I have to agree with you about trusting people from the Internet. I must say I don't see what your occupation has to do with it.  I just thought I'd invite you an offer you an opportunity to see how I live. So you could see I certainly do not live my life as a victim. My husband will be disappointed. Lilah

                                      billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote:
                                      Sorry Lilah, I'm not interested for a number of reasons. First off
                                      is that we are as opposite as can be on issues and I will never see
                                      things your way and you'll never see things mine. I'm sure that
                                      would be the same case with your husband. We have no common ground
                                      and any meeting would be a waste of time.

                                      Secondly, as I've said, trusting people on the net, especially those
                                      who are openly hostile to you is not a good idea. I am naturally
                                      suspicious of people on message boards, but then again I have a
                                      naturally suspicious mind, probably due to my work. I never
                                      approached Steve with the idea to meet, that was his. Kev is a non-
                                      issue because he's across the ocean, and when I screw with him about
                                      looking me up it's basically to do just that.

                                      Thirdly is that I currently work for the feds and I've said that
                                      before. As it's in a law enforcement type of capacity, though
                                      nothing like what I did as a street cop, I can't put myself in a
                                      position where I'd be with someone who lost their temper, or where I
                                      lost mine. I could see that as a possibility if I met with you
                                      and/or your husband not knowing either of you and knowing you're
                                      hostile towards me and as my wife is reading this she is saying she
                                      is dead set against this idea and she is also in law enforcement.

                                      As it stands now I don't think it's a good idea but actually
                                      appreciate the offer.

                                      I still disagree with just about everything you say, the manner in
                                      which you post and feel you and Victor play the victim card way to
                                      often.

                                      Bill
                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                                      --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, lilah <lilahlemon@ ...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I live in San Bernardino, if you would like to come over, send me a
                                      private message and I'll get you in touch with my husband and the 2
                                      of you can work out the arrangements. He is familiar with your posts
                                      and would love to have a talk with you.
                                      >
                                      > billtrc <billtrc@... > wrote: Who's requested to meet me in
                                      person? Steve gave up on the golf over
                                      > my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I'm
                                      > sometimes posting from here and sometimes other places. I'll be
                                      gone
                                      > next week for four days again and if I post it will be from a lap
                                      top.
                                      > I live in the Eastern San Gabriel Valley, where do you live?
                                      >
                                      > You've never requested to meet me. I asked Bolt to look me up and
                                      he
                                      > didn't and I'm not shy about meeting anyone if there was something
                                      to
                                      > be gained from it. There actually wouldn't be anything to gain by
                                      > meeting Bolt. I actually considered Steve to be a possibility but
                                      it
                                      > didn't pan out. I willl admit though that I'm naturally suspicious
                                      > of people on the internet, you have to be. I also don't have
                                      > anything in common with anyone here, especially moaners, groaners
                                      and
                                      > victims and I will not be nice to someone like you or Victor who
                                      fit
                                      > into that definition and hate America.
                                      >
                                      > You don't make the rules regarding me, why would you think you
                                      could?
                                      >
                                      > Bill
                                      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                      >
                                      > --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, lilah <lilahlemon@ > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting that
                                      > after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the one
                                      > person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.
                                      > >
                                      > > billtrc <billtrc@> wrote: Threaten to investigate you?
                                      > You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                      > > cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                      > > person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                      from.
                                      > > As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                      > > claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just
                                      feel
                                      > > they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but
                                      > you
                                      > > seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                                      > and
                                      > > act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are
                                      simply
                                      > > dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                                      > bad
                                      > > for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                      > makes
                                      > > you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                      trick
                                      > > pony.
                                      > >
                                      > > Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                      few
                                      > > enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                                      > the
                                      > > craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                      > causes
                                      > > someone like me to be careful.
                                      > >
                                      > > However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                      > here.
                                      > > I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                      > > plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                      > idea.
                                      > > You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                      > keep
                                      > > them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                      > the
                                      > > audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                      > > impressed.
                                      > >
                                      > > By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                      > > Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm
                                      smart
                                      > > and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                      looked
                                      > > at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                                      > care
                                      > > about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                      > > personal pride.
                                      > >
                                      > > I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                      > > little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                      your
                                      > > profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                      > >
                                      > > People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                                      > come
                                      > > get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got
                                      a
                                      > > discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                      type
                                      > > of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                                      > Why
                                      > > is that?
                                      > >
                                      > > As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                      > > have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                      > > three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                      > promotional
                                      > > chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                      > >
                                      > > You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                      > >
                                      > > Bill
                                      > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                      > > stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                      > > projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                      > > backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is
                                      certainly
                                      > > improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                      here
                                      > > plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find
                                      out
                                      > > who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                                      > who
                                      > > hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                      those
                                      > > who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                      > investigation
                                      > > into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                      > > argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                                      > You
                                      > > seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                      > > Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                      > > operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                      > > everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                      > > justify your existence.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                      > > these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                                      > for
                                      > > you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                      > here,
                                      > > after all....
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                      > Left
                                      > > Doesn't Get It
                                      > > >
                                      > > > World Affairs Council
                                      > > > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                      > > > www.itsyourworld. org
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                                      > and
                                      > > politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book,
                                      God's
                                      > > Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                      has
                                      > > hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                      > > hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                      > > separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public
                                      policy.
                                      > > Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                                      > pro-
                                      > > war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                      and
                                      > > pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                      > > security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had
                                      to
                                      > > put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                      > each
                                      > > of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                      > > integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's
                                      public
                                      > > life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                      security
                                      > > apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                      > supremacy
                                      > > alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                      > everyone
                                      > > having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                      > > threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-774912411 3435101196
                                      > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                      > > Conservatives Think
                                      > > >
                                      > > > UCTV: UC San Diego
                                      > > > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                      > > > www.uctv.tv
                                      > > >
                                      > > > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                      George
                                      > > Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                      > using
                                      > > language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                      > > specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                                      > the
                                      > > Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison
                                      Lecture
                                      > > Series" [Public Affairs]
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-311441273 5990235786
                                      > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~
                                      > > >
                                      > > > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                      > > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/271006stee le.mp3
                                      > > > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                      > > maintains close relationships with top Google representatives
                                      says
                                      > > that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                      > > U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                      > about
                                      > > the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                      > > > http://www.oss. org
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                      > > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/231006vida l.mp3
                                      > > > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                      > > essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                      > revulsion
                                      > > at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                      > prevent
                                      > > any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                      > Habeas
                                      > > Corpus and the administration' s coup de 'tat of America on a
                                      > > nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                      > > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/171006mcco y.mp3
                                      > > > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                      > Professor
                                      > > Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                      regime,
                                      > > the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                                      > new
                                      > > book A Question of Torture
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > PoD,
                                      > > > -KEV
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                      > > > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try
                                      at
                                      > a
                                      > > > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                      > with
                                      > > > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly
                                      bs
                                      > > from
                                      > > > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to
                                      me
                                      > > all
                                      > > > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                      off,
                                      > > it's
                                      > > > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                      > > > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                      it's
                                      > > > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                                      > > for
                                      > > > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                      > > that
                                      > > > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                                      > and
                                      > > > >bash this country.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >Bill
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >--- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as
                                      you
                                      > > put
                                      > > > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                      > > > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                      > > from
                                      > > > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                      > > and
                                      > > > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                      > > > >> >
                                      > > > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                                      > to
                                      > > > >stay
                                      > > > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                      other
                                      > > side
                                      > > > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                      > > > >> >
                                      > > > >> >Bill
                                      > > > >> >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                                      > > ---
                                      > > > >> >
                                      > > > >> >
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >


                                    • billtrc
                                      Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out thoughts as you are no smarter then
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 4, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                        thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out thoughts
                                        as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt with.
                                        Of course being the low thinking type you have to throw in a ding or
                                        two against cops and f.y.i. I know very few meth, heroin or coke
                                        addicts that look at their use as a spiritual experience, what a
                                        completely moronic claim. Yeah, that line shows you're a real deep
                                        thinker.

                                        Then again your whole rap is about weed, your God, and funny that you
                                        didn't show where I threatened to investigate you, more lies which is
                                        par for your course on that fogged in world of yours.

                                        I had a buddy named Rick, used to wake up every day and smoke the
                                        weed. Did so for at least 15 years that I'm aware of. Back in the
                                        early 80's he and my buddy Bobby got into smoking rock. Bob had a
                                        heart attack at 30 that almost killed him and quit everything. He's
                                        got a wife and four kids now but still is on heart meds, what a shame.

                                        Rick, to his credit, stopped everything but weed and was one of the
                                        most paranoid persons you ever met. You certainly can't talk for all
                                        users and neither can I, all I know is Rick dropped dead at 38 from a
                                        massive heart attack. Any connection with that and the weed, maybe.
                                        Rick weighed about 425 when he died and had absolutely no pride in
                                        himself, self control or ambition in life. He drove a taxi in Vegas
                                        his last few years.

                                        Rick was an all everything athelete in high school and in great
                                        shape. He taught me how to golf and I still miss his goofy ass. He
                                        wasted his life as do MANY dopers. You can try all you want to blame
                                        the government, guys like me, covert ops, big business or Santa Claus
                                        for what your opinions but it doesn't change the destructive nature
                                        that drugs have on a person's life. That would be the same regarding
                                        their legal status, and if you were honest you'd admit.

                                        You are the nutcase who sees the boogeymen everywhere, must be tough
                                        living life always afraid. So afraid you scamper overseas to get a
                                        good nights sleep.

                                        Bill
                                        -----------------------------------------------------------------


                                        --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > At 09:07 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                        > >Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                        > >cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                        > >person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                        from.
                                        > >As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                        > >claims.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Back during my days in Laos it was pretty obvious to me that the
                                        people who smoked (the best weed in the world, according to the CIA)
                                        exhibited no particular pattern of paranoid behavior. Maybe the
                                        paranoia you refer to is another of the results of prohibition that
                                        you insist on blaming on drug use. How cruel and unusual!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                                        > >they're weak.
                                        >
                                        > Obviously you have no idea what prejudice means, even though you
                                        are good at it.
                                        >
                                        > I'm not prejudiced against any bigot who thinks others are
                                        inherently weak. One doesn't have to be. If it walks like a duck and
                                        talks like a duck...
                                        >
                                        > My experience has been that different people are attracted to drugs
                                        for different reasons. Those who consider it a spiritual practice,
                                        and those for whom some drug actually provides therapeutic value,
                                        tend to be lifelong consumers. Others try them for the thrill effect.
                                        These are the sociopathic, thrillseeker types who are attracted to
                                        the forbidden fruit aspect. They get an adrenalinerush off it because
                                        it is illegal. These criminal types, if they are not smart or
                                        connected enough to become successful drug dealers, often become
                                        police officers.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                                        > >seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                                        and
                                        > >act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject.
                                        >
                                        > Can you even pronounce psychopharmacology? Functional addict? You
                                        mean like someone who drinks coffee several times a day? Or Rush
                                        Limbaugh? While I may get a bit hysterical when some idiot with a
                                        badge claims to be some kind of neurophysiology expert while ignoring
                                        all the imortant facts (present company excepted, of course), and
                                        insteaed incessantly tries to suggest that I am the mentally unstable
                                        one. You are the proponent of torture here, not me.
                                        >
                                        > In other words you would have people believe as you do, that it is
                                        better for "Oil Ciaduh" to sell tainted heroin in every high school
                                        in the country, than it is for it to be sold by licensed pharmacists
                                        who naturally refuse to sell it to kids, if for no other reason than
                                        to avoid having their license revoked.
                                        >
                                        > Who is the nutcase here, really?
                                        >
                                        > >You are simply
                                        > >dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                                        bad
                                        > >for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                        makes
                                        > >you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                        trick
                                        > >pony.
                                        >
                                        > Spew all the lies and mythology you want. It only goes to prove
                                        that you are not honest. And/or you are grossly misinformed. And/or
                                        you make money off of prohibition. Oh, that's right, you made a
                                        career out of it. Ensuring Oil Ciaduh could sell its heroin to kids
                                        for hundreds of times (tens of thousands of percent) what it costs to
                                        produce.
                                        >
                                        > You are the one who has the selective memory. You don't seem to
                                        remember that the CIA, whose function is to make sure stock market is
                                        healthy, admitted aiding the illegal importation of thousands of tons
                                        of cocaine? Thus ensuring a constant influx of hundreds of billions
                                        of dollars per year of laundered prohibition profits into the stock
                                        exchange. In other words, since Reagan took office, all of the old
                                        capital in the stock market was removed nd replaced by a) pension
                                        funds, and b) prohibition profits. Meaning, at the drop of a hat, the
                                        folks who've been empoverishing you by selling dope to your kids, can
                                        pull their cask out, make the market crash, andhave everyone loose
                                        all their pension money. Pretty kewl scam, eh? Too bad the CIA wasn't
                                        smart or corrupt enough to think of that 40 years ago. We'd be up
                                        sh*t creek without a paddle by now. Probably resorting to wars of
                                        aggression just to divert attention away from domestic issues like
                                        the disappearance of the middle class.
                                        >
                                        > Now, the middle class is mostly made up of people who profit from
                                        war and prohibition. All the good jobs have left the country or only
                                        pay 1/3 of what they did 30 years ago.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                        few
                                        > >enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                                        the
                                        > >craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                        causes
                                        > >someone like me to be careful.
                                        > >
                                        > >However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                        here.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Can't say as I remember seeing that invitation before, unless it
                                        was in reference to busting me for drugs or something like that. Must
                                        be the bud after all. Call me parqanoid, but I'd rather meet you
                                        somewhere safe like a coffee shop (weed cafe) in A'dam.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                        > >plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                        idea.
                                        > >You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                        keep
                                        > >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                        the
                                        > >audience.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > So you admit it is you who are the anonymous hypocrite here. When
                                        you say "brain impaired remarks" do you mean like this?:
                                        >
                                        > "You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                        keep
                                        > >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                        the
                                        > >audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                        > >impressed."
                                        >
                                        > Projecting again, perhaps?
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                        > >Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                                        > >and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                        looked
                                        > >at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                                        care
                                        > >about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                        > >personal pride.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Maybe this is getting close to the crux of the problem. Let me give
                                        you a tip. Normally there are about 6 billion sides to any given
                                        issue. Yet you insist on only recognizing 2? We call that "either/or
                                        mentality" and recognise that as the root of most problems facing us.
                                        >
                                        > The average cop it follows is a selfish person with self-
                                        agrandizing pride?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                        > >little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                        your
                                        > >profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Huh? There you go making stuff up again.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                                        come
                                        > >get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got
                                        a
                                        > >discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                        type
                                        > >of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                                        Why
                                        > >is that?
                                        >
                                        > Market saturation. Pharma realized they couldn't stop chiropractic
                                        by spreading lies and disinformation, because science was showing
                                        that DCs could very often get better results on low back hernias than
                                        the surgeons could, for a fraction of the cost. Insurance companies
                                        began reimbursing for chiro care, having no idea whether they were
                                        getting ripped or not. Suddenly chiropractic became one of the
                                        cheapest quickest ways to get rich. The colleges got overfilled with
                                        people in it for the money. That was the 80s. Then the crunch came
                                        around 90 when I got out of school. Insurance companies slashed the
                                        ammounts they would reimburse. Supposedly they had collected stats
                                        for 10 years and now knew what services were really worth. As little
                                        as 10-25% of what the same cases commanded in the 80s.
                                        >
                                        > So what pharma could not do, insurance did. Only it killed the
                                        profession with kindness, before putting the screws to it. Now
                                        insurance companies, and lawyers dictate everything from prices to
                                        scope of practice.
                                        >
                                        > A healthy market share is something like one DC per 20-30K pop. I
                                        got out of school in OC to find 1 doc per 2000. That is why there is
                                        so much hustling and admittedly tacky promotional schemes going on
                                        out there. And why I moved to greener pastures, where my market share
                                        is more like 1 DC per 80,000 pop. Here I'm not forced to stand
                                        outside the supermarkets, or set up a booth at the swapmeet, and hand
                                        out free exam cards.
                                        >
                                        > I even get paid in cash and the patients send in their own
                                        insurance forms! And here, everyone has insurance! Hope that helps
                                        set things straight about why I live over here. It is the bottom line
                                        truth. I'm not running from anything except an unhealthy market.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                        > >have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                        > >three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                        promotional
                                        > >chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > Got me to smile, but seriously, your offer pales, after one has met
                                        several Barry Seal type CIA get-out-of-jail-free cardholding kiloton
                                        dope pilots.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                        > >
                                        > >Bill
                                        > >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Since I consistently demonstrate the folly of your position and
                                        thus advance in the minds of our "audience" the fact that narcs are
                                        thugs, I am in no hurry to quit. At least not until the end of the
                                        WoD, the reinstatement of the Constitution, and the abolition of
                                        state secrecy.
                                        >
                                        > peace,
                                        > -KEV
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                        > >stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                        > >projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                        > >backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                                        > >improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                        here
                                        > >plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                                        > >who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                                        who
                                        > >hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                        those
                                        > >who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                        investigation
                                        > >into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                        > >argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                                        You
                                        > >seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                        > >Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                        > >operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                        > >everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                        > >justify your existence.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                        > >these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                                        for
                                        > >you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                        here,
                                        > >after all....
                                        > >>
                                        > >> 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                        > >>
                                        > >> 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                        Left
                                        > >Doesn't Get It
                                        > >>
                                        > >> World Affairs Council
                                        > >> 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                        > >> www.itsyourworld.org
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                                        and
                                        > >politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                                        > >Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                        has
                                        > >hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                        > >hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                        > >separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                                        > >Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                                        pro-
                                        > >war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                        and
                                        > >pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                        > >security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                                        > >put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                        each
                                        > >of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                        > >integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                                        > >life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                        security
                                        > >apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                        supremacy
                                        > >alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                        everyone
                                        > >having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                        > >threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                        > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        > >>
                                        > >> 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                        > >Conservatives Think
                                        > >>
                                        > >> UCTV: UC San Diego
                                        > >> 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                        > >> www.uctv.tv
                                        > >>
                                        > >> UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                        George
                                        > >Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                        using
                                        > >language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                        > >specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                                        the
                                        > >Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                                        > >Series" [Public Affairs]
                                        > >>
                                        > >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                        > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        > >>
                                        > >> And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                        > >>
                                        > >> 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                        > >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                        > >> A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                        > >maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                                        > >that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                        > >U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                        about
                                        > >the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                        > >> http://www.oss.org
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                        > >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                        > >> Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                        > >essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                        revulsion
                                        > >at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                        prevent
                                        > >any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                        Habeas
                                        > >Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                        > >nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                        > >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                        > >> Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                        Professor
                                        > >Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                        regime,
                                        > >the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                                        new
                                        > >book A Question of Torture
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> PoD,
                                        > >> -KEV
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                        > >> >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at
                                        a
                                        > >> >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                        with
                                        > >> >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                                        > >from
                                        > >> >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to
                                        me
                                        > >all
                                        > >> >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                        off,
                                        > >it's
                                        > >> >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                        > >> >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                        it's
                                        > >> >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran
                                        off
                                        > >for
                                        > >> >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                        > >that
                                        > >> >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                                        and
                                        > >> >bash this country.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >Bill
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                                        > >put
                                        > >> >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                        > >> >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                        > >from
                                        > >> >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                        > >and
                                        > >> >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                        > >> >> >
                                        > >> >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                                        to
                                        > >> >stay
                                        > >> >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                        other
                                        > >side
                                        > >> >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                        > >> >> >
                                        > >> >> >Bill
                                        > >> >> >-------------------------------------------------------------
                                        ---
                                        > >---
                                        > >> >> >
                                        > >> >> >
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • billtrc
                                        Lilah, I appreciate the nice response. Just so you know, I understand your culture more then you think and also am well aware that your people were subject to
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 4, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Lilah, I appreciate the nice response. Just so you know, I
                                          understand your culture more then you think and also am well aware
                                          that your people were subject to some pretty horrendous actions in
                                          the past. I do not agree that all you posted constituted acts of
                                          terrorisim or genocide, those terms are thrown out way to much these
                                          days to describe events that took place hundreds of years ago at a
                                          time when the world was much different.

                                          By the way, my current occupation makes it very important that I'm
                                          careful. That's just the way it is. The most trusting I have heard
                                          you was in this post.

                                          Bill

                                          ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, lilah <lilahlemon@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Well Bill, I understand. I don't think I'd feel too comfortable
                                          visiting you in your home. However, I see that you really don't know
                                          much of my culture. Coming to my home, you would be an honored guest,
                                          we would share all that we have with you.
                                          >
                                          > I don't know what your typical day entails, but in in mine I
                                          interact and communicate peacefully with lot's of people who don't
                                          share my beliefs. So that wouldn't be an issue for me. And yeah, I
                                          have to agree with you about trusting people from the Internet. I
                                          must say I don't see what your occupation has to do with it. I just
                                          thought I'd invite you an offer you an opportunity to see how I live.
                                          So you could see I certainly do not live my life as a victim. My
                                          husband will be disappointed. Lilah
                                          >
                                          > billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote:
                                          > Sorry Lilah, I'm not interested for a number of reasons.
                                          First off
                                          > is that we are as opposite as can be on issues and I will never see
                                          > things your way and you'll never see things mine. I'm sure that
                                          > would be the same case with your husband. We have no common ground
                                          > and any meeting would be a waste of time.
                                          >
                                          > Secondly, as I've said, trusting people on the net, especially
                                          those
                                          > who are openly hostile to you is not a good idea. I am naturally
                                          > suspicious of people on message boards, but then again I have a
                                          > naturally suspicious mind, probably due to my work. I never
                                          > approached Steve with the idea to meet, that was his. Kev is a non-
                                          > issue because he's across the ocean, and when I screw with him
                                          about
                                          > looking me up it's basically to do just that.
                                          >
                                          > Thirdly is that I currently work for the feds and I've said that
                                          > before. As it's in a law enforcement type of capacity, though
                                          > nothing like what I did as a street cop, I can't put myself in a
                                          > position where I'd be with someone who lost their temper, or where
                                          I
                                          > lost mine. I could see that as a possibility if I met with you
                                          > and/or your husband not knowing either of you and knowing you're
                                          > hostile towards me and as my wife is reading this she is saying she
                                          > is dead set against this idea and she is also in law enforcement.
                                          >
                                          > As it stands now I don't think it's a good idea but actually
                                          > appreciate the offer.
                                          >
                                          > I still disagree with just about everything you say, the manner in
                                          > which you post and feel you and Victor play the victim card way to
                                          > often.
                                          >
                                          > Bill
                                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, lilah <lilahlemon@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I live in San Bernardino, if you would like to come over, send me
                                          a
                                          > private message and I'll get you in touch with my husband and the 2
                                          > of you can work out the arrangements. He is familiar with your
                                          posts
                                          > and would love to have a talk with you.
                                          > >
                                          > > billtrc <billtrc@> wrote: Who's requested to meet me in
                                          > person? Steve gave up on the golf over
                                          > > my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I'm
                                          > > sometimes posting from here and sometimes other places. I'll be
                                          > gone
                                          > > next week for four days again and if I post it will be from a lap
                                          > top.
                                          > > I live in the Eastern San Gabriel Valley, where do you live?
                                          > >
                                          > > You've never requested to meet me. I asked Bolt to look me up and
                                          > he
                                          > > didn't and I'm not shy about meeting anyone if there was
                                          something
                                          > to
                                          > > be gained from it. There actually wouldn't be anything to gain by
                                          > > meeting Bolt. I actually considered Steve to be a possibility but
                                          > it
                                          > > didn't pan out. I willl admit though that I'm naturally
                                          suspicious
                                          > > of people on the internet, you have to be. I also don't have
                                          > > anything in common with anyone here, especially moaners, groaners
                                          > and
                                          > > victims and I will not be nice to someone like you or Victor who
                                          > fit
                                          > > into that definition and hate America.
                                          > >
                                          > > You don't make the rules regarding me, why would you think you
                                          > could?
                                          > >
                                          > > Bill
                                          > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, lilah <lilahlemon@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting
                                          that
                                          > > after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the
                                          one
                                          > > person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > billtrc <billtrc@> wrote: Threaten to investigate you?
                                          > > You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                          > > > cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in
                                          a
                                          > > > person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                          > from.
                                          > > > As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with
                                          your
                                          > > > claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just
                                          > feel
                                          > > > they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts
                                          but
                                          > > you
                                          > > > seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical
                                          claims
                                          > > and
                                          > > > act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are
                                          > simply
                                          > > > dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that
                                          are
                                          > > bad
                                          > > > for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                          > > makes
                                          > > > you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                          > trick
                                          > > > pony.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                          > few
                                          > > > enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and
                                          seeing
                                          > > the
                                          > > > craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                          > > causes
                                          > > > someone like me to be careful.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                          > > here.
                                          > > > I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                          > > > plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                          > > idea.
                                          > > > You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                          > > keep
                                          > > > them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold
                                          on
                                          > > the
                                          > > > audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                          > > > impressed.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                          > > > Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm
                                          > smart
                                          > > > and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                          > looked
                                          > > > at both sides of the issue and things I find important you
                                          don't
                                          > > care
                                          > > > about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                          > > > personal pride.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                          > > > little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                          > your
                                          > > > profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount
                                          to
                                          > > come
                                          > > > get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even
                                          got
                                          > a
                                          > > > discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                          > type
                                          > > > of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors
                                          do.
                                          > > Why
                                          > > > is that?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                          > > > have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after
                                          any
                                          > > > three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                          > > promotional
                                          > > > chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Bill
                                          > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                          > > > stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                          > > > projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references
                                          to
                                          > > > backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is
                                          > certainly
                                          > > > improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                          > here
                                          > > > plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find
                                          > out
                                          > > > who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the
                                          one
                                          > > who
                                          > > > hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                          > those
                                          > > > who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                          > > investigation
                                          > > > into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                          > > > argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben
                                          Franklin.
                                          > > You
                                          > > > seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                          > > > Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or
                                          covert
                                          > > > operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                          > > > everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                          > > > justify your existence.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to
                                          watch
                                          > > > these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a
                                          challenge
                                          > > for
                                          > > > you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                          > > here,
                                          > > > after all....
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                          > > Left
                                          > > > Doesn't Get It
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > World Affairs Council
                                          > > > > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                          > > > > www.itsyourworld.org
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of
                                          faith
                                          > > and
                                          > > > politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book,
                                          > God's
                                          > > > Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                          > has
                                          > > > hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the
                                          Left
                                          > > > hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and
                                          continually
                                          > > > separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public
                                          > policy.
                                          > > > Since when did believing in God and having moral values make
                                          you
                                          > > pro-
                                          > > > war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                          > and
                                          > > > pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for
                                          economic
                                          > > > security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had
                                          > to
                                          > > > put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                          > > each
                                          > > > of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                          > > > integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's
                                          > public
                                          > > > life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                          > security
                                          > > > apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                          > > supremacy
                                          > > > alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                          > > everyone
                                          > > > having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove
                                          the
                                          > > > threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                          > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                          > > > Conservatives Think
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > UCTV: UC San Diego
                                          > > > > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                          > > > > www.uctv.tv
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                          > George
                                          > > > Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                          > > using
                                          > > > language targeted to people's values instead of their support
                                          for
                                          > > > specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored
                                          by
                                          > > the
                                          > > > Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison
                                          > Lecture
                                          > > > Series" [Public Affairs]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                          > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                          > > > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                          > > > > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                          > > > maintains close relationships with top Google representatives
                                          > says
                                          > > > that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and
                                          the
                                          > > > U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                          > > about
                                          > > > the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                          > > > > http://www.oss.org
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                          > > > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                          > > > > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                          > > > essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                          > > revulsion
                                          > > > at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                          > > prevent
                                          > > > any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                          > > Habeas
                                          > > > Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                          > > > nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                          > > > > http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                          > > > > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                          > > Professor
                                          > > > Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                          > regime,
                                          > > > the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and
                                          McCoy's
                                          > > new
                                          > > > book A Question of Torture
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > PoD,
                                          > > > > -KEV
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                          > > > > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try
                                          > at
                                          > > a
                                          > > > > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                          > > with
                                          > > > > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly
                                          > bs
                                          > > > from
                                          > > > > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to
                                          > me
                                          > > > all
                                          > > > > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                          > off,
                                          > > > it's
                                          > > > > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said.
                                          Why
                                          > > > > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                          > it's
                                          > > > > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran
                                          off
                                          > > > for
                                          > > > > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch
                                          on
                                          > > > that
                                          > > > > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify
                                          weed
                                          > > and
                                          > > > > >bash this country.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >Bill
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as
                                          > you
                                          > > > put
                                          > > > > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                          > > > > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All
                                          talk
                                          > > > from
                                          > > > > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a
                                          joke,
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                          > > > > >> >
                                          > > > > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the
                                          courage
                                          > > to
                                          > > > > >stay
                                          > > > > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                          > other
                                          > > > side
                                          > > > > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                          > > > > >> >
                                          > > > > >> >Bill
                                          > > > > >> >----------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > > ---
                                          > > > > >> >
                                          > > > > >> >
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • victor robles
                                          Why do you play such a victim so much bill? You whine about us telling you the truth, with hard facts. Its amazing how such evil minded people hold on to such
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 4, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Why do you play such a victim so much bill? You whine about us telling you the truth, with hard facts. Its amazing how such evil minded people hold on to such vile. Its disgusting bill.
                                             
                                             
                                             you currently work for the Feds bill? Ha Ha Ha

                                            billtrc <billtrc@...> wrote:
                                            Sorry Lilah, I'm not interested for a number of reasons. First off
                                            is that we are as opposite as can be on issues and I will never see
                                            things your way and you'll never see things mine. I'm sure that
                                            would be the same case with your husband. We have no common ground
                                            and any meeting would be a waste of time.

                                            Secondly, as I've said, trusting people on the net, especially those
                                            who are openly hostile to you is not a good idea. I am naturally
                                            suspicious of people on message boards, but then again I have a
                                            naturally suspicious mind, probably due to my work. I never
                                            approached Steve with the idea to meet, that was his. Kev is a non-
                                            issue because he's across the ocean, and when I screw with him about
                                            looking me up it's basically to do just that.

                                            Thirdly is that I currently work for the feds and I've said that
                                            before. As it's in a law enforcement type of capacity, though
                                            nothing like what I did as a street cop, I can't put myself in a
                                            position where I'd be with someone who lost their temper, or where I
                                            lost mine. I could see that as a possibility if I met with you
                                            and/or your husband not knowing either of you and knowing you're
                                            hostile towards me and as my wife is reading this she is saying she
                                            is dead set against this idea and she is also in law enforcement.

                                            As it stands now I don't think it's a good idea but actually
                                            appreciate the offer.

                                            I still disagree with just about everything you say, the manner in
                                            which you post and feel you and Victor play the victim card way to
                                            often.

                                            Bill
                                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                                            --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, lilah <lilahlemon@ ...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I live in San Bernardino, if you would like to come over, send me a
                                            private message and I'll get you in touch with my husband and the 2
                                            of you can work out the arrangements. He is familiar with your posts
                                            and would love to have a talk with you.
                                            >
                                            > billtrc <billtrc@... > wrote: Who's requested to meet me in
                                            person? Steve gave up on the golf over
                                            > my responses to the Foley scandal and my schedule is such I'm
                                            > sometimes posting from here and sometimes other places. I'll be
                                            gone
                                            > next week for four days again and if I post it will be from a lap
                                            top.
                                            > I live in the Eastern San Gabriel Valley, where do you live?
                                            >
                                            > You've never requested to meet me. I asked Bolt to look me up and
                                            he
                                            > didn't and I'm not shy about meeting anyone if there was something
                                            to
                                            > be gained from it. There actually wouldn't be anything to gain by
                                            > meeting Bolt. I actually considered Steve to be a possibility but
                                            it
                                            > didn't pan out. I willl admit though that I'm naturally suspicious
                                            > of people on the internet, you have to be. I also don't have
                                            > anything in common with anyone here, especially moaners, groaners
                                            and
                                            > victims and I will not be nice to someone like you or Victor who
                                            fit
                                            > into that definition and hate America.
                                            >
                                            > You don't make the rules regarding me, why would you think you
                                            could?
                                            >
                                            > Bill
                                            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                            >
                                            > --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, lilah <lilahlemon@ > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > So much for Bill's promise to be nice. I find it interesting that
                                            > after so may people have requested to meet Bill in person, the one
                                            > person he claims to agree to meet currently lives overseas.
                                            > >
                                            > > billtrc <billtrc@> wrote: Threaten to investigate you?
                                            > You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                            > > cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                            > > person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                            from.
                                            > > As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                            > > claims. I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just
                                            feel
                                            > > they're weak. I've said before I've known functional addicts but
                                            > you
                                            > > seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                                            > and
                                            > > act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject. You are
                                            simply
                                            > > dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                                            > bad
                                            > > for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                            > makes
                                            > > you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                            trick
                                            > > pony.
                                            > >
                                            > > Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                            few
                                            > > enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                                            > the
                                            > > craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                            > causes
                                            > > someone like me to be careful.
                                            > >
                                            > > However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                            > here.
                                            > > I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                            > > plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                            > idea.
                                            > > You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                            > keep
                                            > > them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                            > the
                                            > > audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                            > > impressed.
                                            > >
                                            > > By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                            > > Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm
                                            smart
                                            > > and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                            looked
                                            > > at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                                            > care
                                            > > about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                            > > personal pride.
                                            > >
                                            > > I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                            > > little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                            your
                                            > > profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                            > >
                                            > > People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                                            > come
                                            > > get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got
                                            a
                                            > > discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                            type
                                            > > of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                                            > Why
                                            > > is that?
                                            > >
                                            > > As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                            > > have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                            > > three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                            > promotional
                                            > > chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                            > >
                                            > > You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                            > >
                                            > > Bill
                                            > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                            > > stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                            > > projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                            > > backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is
                                            certainly
                                            > > improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                            here
                                            > > plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find
                                            out
                                            > > who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                                            > who
                                            > > hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                            those
                                            > > who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                            > investigation
                                            > > into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                            > > argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                                            > You
                                            > > seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                            > > Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                            > > operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                            > > everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                            > > justify your existence.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                            > > these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                                            > for
                                            > > you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                            > here,
                                            > > after all....
                                            > > >
                                            > > > 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                            > > >
                                            > > > 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                            > Left
                                            > > Doesn't Get It
                                            > > >
                                            > > > World Affairs Council
                                            > > > 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                            > > > www.itsyourworld. org
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                                            > and
                                            > > politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book,
                                            God's
                                            > > Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                            has
                                            > > hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                            > > hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                            > > separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public
                                            policy.
                                            > > Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                                            > pro-
                                            > > war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                            and
                                            > > pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                            > > security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had
                                            to
                                            > > put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                            > each
                                            > > of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                            > > integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's
                                            public
                                            > > life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                            security
                                            > > apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                            > supremacy
                                            > > alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                            > everyone
                                            > > having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                            > > threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-774912411 3435101196
                                            > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
                                            > > >
                                            > > > 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                            > > Conservatives Think
                                            > > >
                                            > > > UCTV: UC San Diego
                                            > > > 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                            > > > www.uctv.tv
                                            > > >
                                            > > > UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                            George
                                            > > Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                            > using
                                            > > language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                            > > specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                                            > the
                                            > > Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison
                                            Lecture
                                            > > Series" [Public Affairs]
                                            > > >
                                            > > > http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-311441273 5990235786
                                            > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~
                                            > > >
                                            > > > And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                            > > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/271006stee le.mp3
                                            > > > A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                            > > maintains close relationships with top Google representatives
                                            says
                                            > > that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                            > > U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                            > about
                                            > > the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                            > > > http://www.oss. org
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                            > > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/231006vida l.mp3
                                            > > > Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                            > > essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                            > revulsion
                                            > > at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                            > prevent
                                            > > any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                            > Habeas
                                            > > Corpus and the administration' s coup de 'tat of America on a
                                            > > nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                            > > > http://www.kosmc. net/pptv/ audio/171006mcco y.mp3
                                            > > > Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                            > Professor
                                            > > Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                            regime,
                                            > > the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                                            > new
                                            > > book A Question of Torture
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > PoD,
                                            > > > -KEV
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                            > > > >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try
                                            at
                                            > a
                                            > > > >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                            > with
                                            > > > >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly
                                            bs
                                            > > from
                                            > > > >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to
                                            me
                                            > > all
                                            > > > >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                            off,
                                            > > it's
                                            > > > >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                            > > > >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                            it's
                                            > > > >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran off
                                            > > for
                                            > > > >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                            > > that
                                            > > > >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                                            > and
                                            > > > >bash this country.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Bill
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >--- In KLOS_Impact@ yahoogroups. com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as
                                            you
                                            > > put
                                            > > > >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                            > > > >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                            > > from
                                            > > > >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                            > > and
                                            > > > >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                            > > > >> >
                                            > > > >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                                            > to
                                            > > > >stay
                                            > > > >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                            other
                                            > > side
                                            > > > >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                            > > > >> >
                                            > > > >> >Bill
                                            > > > >> >----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
                                            > > ---
                                            > > > >> >
                                            > > > >> >
                                            > > > >>
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >


                                          • Dr.KEV
                                            ... There you go again attacking me in order to avoid providing cogent arguments to refute my assertions. This is typical of the type of people we have working
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 5, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              At 08:27 PM 11/4/2006 -0000, bill wrote:
                                              >Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                              >thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out thoughts
                                              >as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt with.

                                              There you go again attacking me in order to avoid providing cogent arguments to refute my assertions. This is typical of the type of people we have working for govt., folks. Pretty sad isn't it.

                                              I guess you musta hanged out with some brilliant heads then, eh bill? If they were all smarter than me.

                                              Let me try to state this simply and concisely so even bill can understand it.

                                              While drugs are potentially dstructive in themselves, making them illegal only amplifies the damage manyfold. One result of prohibition is that all you can get anymore are destructive drugs. Heroin, coke, crack, and crank are all over the place, sold by terrorist groups (intelligence agencies) to kids right in the schools.

                                              Traditionally spiritual drugs (entheogens) are comparatively difficult to find. Meanwhile, XTC is all over the place. In a free market, you would see a much different pattern of relative consumption rates. People would avoid stupid drugs in favor of the smart ones that organized criminal spook terrorists don't want you to have.

                                              I still don't understand why bill prefers terrorists to pharmacists, but if you ask me, it still seems like a pretty stupid idea. -Passing out all sorts of highly addictive substances to kids in exchange for having them rip off everything they possibly can. And then blaming it on drugs in order to justify even stricter penalties, increasing risk to dealers, further inflating the prices, and thus, maximizing profits to terrorist organizations! Brilliant bill!

                                              Maybe bill really is terrified that should drugs become legal, he is going to immediately go out and start mainlining huge loads of heroin.

                                              Maybe bill has busted a lot of liquor store owners down at the school yard giving kids their first bottles for free.

                                              Maybe bill has pension money invested in privatized prisons.

                                              All I know is that if drugs were as horrible as bill says they are, nobody would use them. And they would qualify as their own punishment.

                                              Whether bill is really as ignorant as he acts, or he is deliberately telling lies, he is obviously a piss-poor excuse for a govt employee, let alone a human being. How long the public is going to continue to tolerate being ruled over by thugs like this I do not know. Maybe they just never realized their tax dollars were being spent paying the bloated salaries of people like this. Sieg Heil, comrade!

                                              Democracy means getting the govt we deserve.

                                              I pretty much rest my case since bill refuses (is unable) to come up with any reliable sources to back up his totally unreliable pro-terrorism rhetoric.

                                              peace,
                                              -KEV




                                              At 08:27 PM 11/4/2006 -0000, bill wrote:
                                              >Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                              >thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out thoughts
                                              >as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt with.
                                              >Of course being the low thinking type you have to throw in a ding or
                                              >two against cops and f.y.i. I know very few meth, heroin or coke
                                              >addicts that look at their use as a spiritual experience, what a
                                              >completely moronic claim. Yeah, that line shows you're a real deep
                                              >thinker.
                                              >
                                              >Then again your whole rap is about weed, your God, and funny that you
                                              >didn't show where I threatened to investigate you, more lies which is
                                              >par for your course on that fogged in world of yours.
                                              >
                                              >I had a buddy named Rick, used to wake up every day and smoke the
                                              >weed. Did so for at least 15 years that I'm aware of. Back in the
                                              >early 80's he and my buddy Bobby got into smoking rock. Bob had a
                                              >heart attack at 30 that almost killed him and quit everything. He's
                                              >got a wife and four kids now but still is on heart meds, what a shame.
                                              >
                                              >Rick, to his credit, stopped everything but weed and was one of the
                                              >most paranoid persons you ever met. You certainly can't talk for all
                                              >users and neither can I, all I know is Rick dropped dead at 38 from a
                                              >massive heart attack. Any connection with that and the weed, maybe.
                                              >Rick weighed about 425 when he died and had absolutely no pride in
                                              >himself, self control or ambition in life. He drove a taxi in Vegas
                                              >his last few years.
                                              >
                                              >Rick was an all everything athelete in high school and in great
                                              >shape. He taught me how to golf and I still miss his goofy ass. He
                                              >wasted his life as do MANY dopers. You can try all you want to blame
                                              >the government, guys like me, covert ops, big business or Santa Claus
                                              >for what your opinions but it doesn't change the destructive nature
                                              >that drugs have on a person's life. That would be the same regarding
                                              >their legal status, and if you were honest you'd admit.
                                              >
                                              >You are the nutcase who sees the boogeymen everywhere, must be tough
                                              >living life always afraid. So afraid you scamper overseas to get a
                                              >good nights sleep.
                                              >
                                              >Bill
                                              >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> At 09:07 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                              >> >Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as if I
                                              >> >cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in a
                                              >> >person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                              >from.
                                              >> >As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with your
                                              >> >claims.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Back during my days in Laos it was pretty obvious to me that the
                                              >people who smoked (the best weed in the world, according to the CIA)
                                              >exhibited no particular pattern of paranoid behavior. Maybe the
                                              >paranoia you refer to is another of the results of prohibition that
                                              >you insist on blaming on drug use. How cruel and unusual!
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                                              >> >they're weak.
                                              >>
                                              >> Obviously you have no idea what prejudice means, even though you
                                              >are good at it.
                                              >>
                                              >> I'm not prejudiced against any bigot who thinks others are
                                              >inherently weak. One doesn't have to be. If it walks like a duck and
                                              >talks like a duck...
                                              >>
                                              >> My experience has been that different people are attracted to drugs
                                              >for different reasons. Those who consider it a spiritual practice,
                                              >and those for whom some drug actually provides therapeutic value,
                                              >tend to be lifelong consumers. Others try them for the thrill effect.
                                              >These are the sociopathic, thrillseeker types who are attracted to
                                              >the forbidden fruit aspect. They get an adrenalinerush off it because
                                              >it is illegal. These criminal types, if they are not smart or
                                              >connected enough to become successful drug dealers, often become
                                              >police officers.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                                              >> >seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical claims
                                              >and
                                              >> >act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject.
                                              >>
                                              >> Can you even pronounce psychopharmacology? Functional addict? You
                                              >mean like someone who drinks coffee several times a day? Or Rush
                                              >Limbaugh? While I may get a bit hysterical when some idiot with a
                                              >badge claims to be some kind of neurophysiology expert while ignoring
                                              >all the imortant facts (present company excepted, of course), and
                                              >insteaed incessantly tries to suggest that I am the mentally unstable
                                              >one. You are the proponent of torture here, not me.
                                              >>
                                              >> In other words you would have people believe as you do, that it is
                                              >better for "Oil Ciaduh" to sell tainted heroin in every high school
                                              >in the country, than it is for it to be sold by licensed pharmacists
                                              >who naturally refuse to sell it to kids, if for no other reason than
                                              >to avoid having their license revoked.
                                              >>
                                              >> Who is the nutcase here, really?
                                              >>
                                              >> >You are simply
                                              >> >dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that are
                                              >bad
                                              >> >for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                              >makes
                                              >> >you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                              >trick
                                              >> >pony.
                                              >>
                                              >> Spew all the lies and mythology you want. It only goes to prove
                                              >that you are not honest. And/or you are grossly misinformed. And/or
                                              >you make money off of prohibition. Oh, that's right, you made a
                                              >career out of it. Ensuring Oil Ciaduh could sell its heroin to kids
                                              >for hundreds of times (tens of thousands of percent) what it costs to
                                              >produce.
                                              >>
                                              >> You are the one who has the selective memory. You don't seem to
                                              >remember that the CIA, whose function is to make sure stock market is
                                              >healthy, admitted aiding the illegal importation of thousands of tons
                                              >of cocaine? Thus ensuring a constant influx of hundreds of billions
                                              >of dollars per year of laundered prohibition profits into the stock
                                              >exchange. In other words, since Reagan took office, all of the old
                                              >capital in the stock market was removed nd replaced by a) pension
                                              >funds, and b) prohibition profits. Meaning, at the drop of a hat, the
                                              >folks who've been empoverishing you by selling dope to your kids, can
                                              >pull their cask out, make the market crash, andhave everyone loose
                                              >all their pension money. Pretty kewl scam, eh? Too bad the CIA wasn't
                                              >smart or corrupt enough to think of that 40 years ago. We'd be up
                                              >sh*t creek without a paddle by now. Probably resorting to wars of
                                              >aggression just to divert attention away from domestic issues like
                                              >the disappearance of the middle class.
                                              >>
                                              >> Now, the middle class is mostly made up of people who profit from
                                              >war and prohibition. All the good jobs have left the country or only
                                              >pay 1/3 of what they did 30 years ago.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                              >few
                                              >> >enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and seeing
                                              >the
                                              >> >craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                              >causes
                                              >> >someone like me to be careful.
                                              >> >
                                              >> >However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                              >here.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Can't say as I remember seeing that invitation before, unless it
                                              >was in reference to busting me for drugs or something like that. Must
                                              >be the bud after all. Call me parqanoid, but I'd rather meet you
                                              >somewhere safe like a coffee shop (weed cafe) in A'dam.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                              >> >plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                              >idea.
                                              >> >You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                              >keep
                                              >> >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                              >the
                                              >> >audience.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> So you admit it is you who are the anonymous hypocrite here. When
                                              >you say "brain impaired remarks" do you mean like this?:
                                              >>
                                              >> "You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                              >keep
                                              >> >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold on
                                              >the
                                              >> >audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                              >> >impressed."
                                              >>
                                              >> Projecting again, perhaps?
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                              >> >Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm smart
                                              >> >and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                              >looked
                                              >> >at both sides of the issue and things I find important you don't
                                              >care
                                              >> >about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with little
                                              >> >personal pride.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Maybe this is getting close to the crux of the problem. Let me give
                                              >you a tip. Normally there are about 6 billion sides to any given
                                              >issue. Yet you insist on only recognizing 2? We call that "either/or
                                              >mentality" and recognise that as the root of most problems facing us.
                                              >>
                                              >> The average cop it follows is a selfish person with self-
                                              >agrandizing pride?
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                              >> >little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                              >your
                                              >> >profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Huh? There you go making stuff up again.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount to
                                              >come
                                              >> >get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even got
                                              >a
                                              >> >discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                              >type
                                              >> >of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors do.
                                              >Why
                                              >> >is that?
                                              >>
                                              >> Market saturation. Pharma realized they couldn't stop chiropractic
                                              >by spreading lies and disinformation, because science was showing
                                              >that DCs could very often get better results on low back hernias than
                                              >the surgeons could, for a fraction of the cost. Insurance companies
                                              >began reimbursing for chiro care, having no idea whether they were
                                              >getting ripped or not. Suddenly chiropractic became one of the
                                              >cheapest quickest ways to get rich. The colleges got overfilled with
                                              >people in it for the money. That was the 80s. Then the crunch came
                                              >around 90 when I got out of school. Insurance companies slashed the
                                              >ammounts they would reimburse. Supposedly they had collected stats
                                              >for 10 years and now knew what services were really worth. As little
                                              >as 10-25% of what the same cases commanded in the 80s.
                                              >>
                                              >> So what pharma could not do, insurance did. Only it killed the
                                              >profession with kindness, before putting the screws to it. Now
                                              >insurance companies, and lawyers dictate everything from prices to
                                              >scope of practice.
                                              >>
                                              >> A healthy market share is something like one DC per 20-30K pop. I
                                              >got out of school in OC to find 1 doc per 2000. That is why there is
                                              >so much hustling and admittedly tacky promotional schemes going on
                                              >out there. And why I moved to greener pastures, where my market share
                                              >is more like 1 DC per 80,000 pop. Here I'm not forced to stand
                                              >outside the supermarkets, or set up a booth at the swapmeet, and hand
                                              >out free exam cards.
                                              >>
                                              >> I even get paid in cash and the patients send in their own
                                              >insurance forms! And here, everyone has insurance! Hope that helps
                                              >set things straight about why I live over here. It is the bottom line
                                              >truth. I'm not running from anything except an unhealthy market.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                              >> >have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after any
                                              >> >three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                              >promotional
                                              >> >chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >> Got me to smile, but seriously, your offer pales, after one has met
                                              >several Barry Seal type CIA get-out-of-jail-free cardholding kiloton
                                              >dope pilots.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                              >> >
                                              >> >Bill
                                              >> >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Since I consistently demonstrate the folly of your position and
                                              >thus advance in the minds of our "audience" the fact that narcs are
                                              >thugs, I am in no hurry to quit. At least not until the end of the
                                              >WoD, the reinstatement of the Constitution, and the abolition of
                                              >state secrecy.
                                              >>
                                              >> peace,
                                              >> -KEV
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                              >> >stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                              >> >projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references to
                                              >> >backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is certainly
                                              >> >improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                              >here
                                              >> >plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find out
                                              >> >who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the one
                                              >who
                                              >> >hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                              >those
                                              >> >who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                              >investigation
                                              >> >into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                              >> >argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben Franklin.
                                              >You
                                              >> >seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                              >> >Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or covert
                                              >> >operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                              >> >everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                              >> >justify your existence.
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to watch
                                              >> >these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a challenge
                                              >for
                                              >> >you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                              >here,
                                              >> >after all....
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                              >Left
                                              >> >Doesn't Get It
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> World Affairs Council
                                              >> >> 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                              >> >> www.itsyourworld.org
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of faith
                                              >and
                                              >> >politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book, God's
                                              >> >Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                              >has
                                              >> >hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the Left
                                              >> >hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and continually
                                              >> >separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public policy.
                                              >> >Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you
                                              >pro-
                                              >> >war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                              >and
                                              >> >pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic
                                              >> >security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to
                                              >> >put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                              >each
                                              >> >of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                              >> >integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's public
                                              >> >life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                              >security
                                              >> >apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                              >supremacy
                                              >> >alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                              >everyone
                                              >> >having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove the
                                              >> >threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                              >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                              >> >Conservatives Think
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> UCTV: UC San Diego
                                              >> >> 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                              >> >> www.uctv.tv
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                              >George
                                              >> >Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                              >using
                                              >> >language targeted to people's values instead of their support for
                                              >> >specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored by
                                              >the
                                              >> >Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison Lecture
                                              >> >Series" [Public Affairs]
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                              >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                              >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                              >> >> A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                              >> >maintains close relationships with top Google representatives says
                                              >> >that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and the
                                              >> >U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                              >about
                                              >> >the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                              >> >> http://www.oss.org
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                              >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                              >> >> Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                              >> >essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                              >revulsion
                                              >> >at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                              >prevent
                                              >> >any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                              >Habeas
                                              >> >Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                              >> >nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                              >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                              >> >> Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                              >Professor
                                              >> >Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                              >regime,
                                              >> >the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and McCoy's
                                              >new
                                              >> >book A Question of Torture
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> PoD,
                                              >> >> -KEV
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >> At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                              >> >> >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try at
                                              >a
                                              >> >> >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't agree
                                              >with
                                              >> >> >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly bs
                                              >> >from
                                              >> >> >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it to
                                              >me
                                              >> >all
                                              >> >> >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                              >off,
                                              >> >it's
                                              >> >> >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said. Why
                                              >> >> >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                              >it's
                                              >> >> >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran
                                              >off
                                              >> >for
                                              >> >> >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch on
                                              >> >that
                                              >> >> >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify weed
                                              >and
                                              >> >> >bash this country.
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >Bill
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                              >> >> >>
                                              >> >> >>
                                              >> >> >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as you
                                              >> >put
                                              >> >> >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                              >> >> >>
                                              >> >> >>
                                              >> >> >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                              >> >> >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All talk
                                              >> >from
                                              >> >> >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a joke,
                                              >> >and
                                              >> >> >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                              >> >> >> >
                                              >> >> >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the courage
                                              >to
                                              >> >> >stay
                                              >> >> >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                              >other
                                              >> >side
                                              >> >> >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                              >> >> >> >
                                              >> >> >> >Bill
                                              >> >> >> >-------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >---
                                              >> >---
                                              >> >> >> >
                                              >> >> >> >
                                              >> >> >>
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >> >
                                              >> >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • billtrc
                                              ... thoughts ... with. ... cogent arguments to refute my assertions. This is typical of the type of people we have working for govt., folks. Pretty sad isn t
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 5, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > At 08:27 PM 11/4/2006 -0000, bill wrote:
                                                > >Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                                > >thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out
                                                thoughts
                                                > >as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt
                                                with.
                                                >
                                                > Kev: There you go again attacking me in order to avoid providing
                                                cogent arguments to refute my assertions. This is typical of the type
                                                of people we have working for govt., folks. Pretty sad isn't it.
                                                >
                                                Bill: There isn't a post you make where you don't attack me or make a
                                                snide remark about law enforcement, so quit acting like you're pure
                                                in the way you respond. You're acting like a little girl as usual.

                                                Kev: I guess you musta hanged out with some brilliant heads then, eh
                                                bill? If they were all smarter than me.
                                                >
                                                Bill: They didn't try to justify their use, they knew better, you
                                                don't. Score one for them.

                                                Kev: Let me try to state this simply and concisely so even bill can
                                                understand it.
                                                >
                                                Bill: Another snide little girl type remark, go ahead hypocrite.

                                                Kev: While drugs are potentially dstructive in themselves, making
                                                them illegal only amplifies the damage manyfold. One result of
                                                prohibition is that all you can get anymore are destructive drugs.
                                                Heroin, coke, crack, and crank are all over the place, sold by
                                                terrorist groups (intelligence agencies) to kids right in the
                                                schools.
                                                >
                                                Bill: Name the terrorist groups on our school grounds. Also
                                                explain "potentially destructive". Your second line means exactly
                                                what, it sounds like bs to me? Are you saying weed is destructive,
                                                you can still get it? This paragraph lacks any type of coherent
                                                thought.

                                                Kev: Traditionally spiritual drugs (entheogens) are comparatively
                                                difficult to find. Meanwhile, XTC is all over the place. In a free
                                                market, you would see a much different pattern of relative
                                                consumption rates. People would avoid stupid drugs in favor of the
                                                smart ones that organized criminal spook terrorists don't want you to
                                                have.
                                                >
                                                Bill: Yeah, consumption rates would go up. After legalization first
                                                took place in your new home country adiction rates went up, look it
                                                up I did. Your paranoia and everything's a conspiracy run by the
                                                C.I.A. shows through again with your spook line. Have you been
                                                diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic because you sure sound that way?
                                                >
                                                Kev: I still don't understand why bill prefers terrorists to
                                                pharmacists, but if you ask me, it still seems like a pretty stupid
                                                idea. -Passing out all sorts of highly addictive substances to kids
                                                in exchange for having them rip off everything they possibly can. And
                                                then blaming it on drugs in order to justify even stricter penalties,
                                                increasing risk to dealers, further inflating the prices, and thus,
                                                maximizing profits to terrorist organizations! Brilliant bill!
                                                >
                                                Bill: You're whole rap appaers to be based on a functional disorder
                                                you might have that has made the world a very scary place for you.
                                                Legalization for whom Kev? Would pregnant women, judges,
                                                politicians, public transportation workers like bus drivers or train
                                                conductor, cops, soldiers, firemen, and children be allowed free
                                                access like everyone else or would a black market exist for them?
                                                Tell me how none of them would want to partake.

                                                Kev: Maybe bill really is terrified that should drugs become legal,
                                                he is going to immediately go out and start mainlining huge loads of
                                                heroin.
                                                >
                                                Bill: Unlike you I'm not weak minded and/or need any type of product,
                                                legal or illegal, on a daily basis. More little girl talk, will you
                                                ever grow up and post like a man?

                                                >Kev: Maybe bill has busted a lot of liquor store owners down at the
                                                school yard giving kids their first bottles for free.
                                                >
                                                Bill: Apples and oranges, you're quite limited in this arguement
                                                aren't you Kev? You make no type of point with that type of
                                                arguement.

                                                Kev: Maybe bill has pension money invested in privatized prisons.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                Bill: Not that I'm aware of, but I'm open to moving what funds I
                                                invest around where I can get the most bang for my buck.

                                                Kev: All I know is that if drugs were as horrible as bill says they
                                                are, nobody would use them. And they would qualify as their own
                                                punishment.
                                                >
                                                Bill: That's what I've said about you from the get-go that you've
                                                denied. You believe drugs are good for you so there you have it.
                                                They're not, they have little beneficial value for anyone and that
                                                includes alcohol. BECAUSE SOME ARE LEGAL THAT ARE ALSO BAD FOR YOU
                                                DOES NOT JUSTIFY LEGALIZATION OF OTHERS!!! I'm just wondering if
                                                there's anything in your life that you can get enjoyment from absent
                                                weed or any other drug you might take?

                                                Kev: Whether bill is really as ignorant as he acts, or he is
                                                deliberately telling lies, he is obviously a piss-poor excuse for a
                                                govt employee, let alone a human being.

                                                Bill: Like I care what a waste case little girl dope dependent
                                                running man like you thinks. I've known weak kneed people like you
                                                all my life Kev, you're a big mouthed paranoid piece of crap that
                                                can't make a case for anything but what long term drug use does to
                                                the common sense a person has. Yours is gone, if you ever had it.

                                                Kev: How long the public is going to continue to tolerate being ruled
                                                over by thugs like this I do not know. Maybe they just never
                                                realized their tax dollars were being spent paying the bloated
                                                salaries of people like this. Sieg Heil, comrade!
                                                >
                                                Bill: This isn't your country or your public Kev, it's mine. You ran
                                                a long time ago remember. You have no standing here, you ran like
                                                any other common criminal or coward.

                                                Kev: Democracy means getting the govt we deserve.
                                                >
                                                Bill: You got yours in the land of free dope use, your happy home.
                                                The U.S.A. is not your home.

                                                >Kev: I pretty much rest my case since bill refuses (is unable) to
                                                come up with any reliable sources to back up his totally unreliable
                                                pro-terrorism rhetoric.
                                                >
                                                Bill: I already posted something before this, little boy paranoid,
                                                reagarding problems you're probably already experiencing with your
                                                long term use, and you won't be able to answer things I posted here.
                                                You're just a big mouthed addict and nothing more. There are plenty
                                                of credible sources all over the net that agrees with my position on
                                                the societal problems that legalization would magnify, but they're
                                                all "skewed" because a guy who had to run over seas to make his case
                                                says so. You are the ultimate authority, all bow down to Kev. Not!!

                                                Be happy in your fogged in existence boy. You're a quack.

                                                Bill
                                                ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > peace,
                                                > -KEV
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > At 08:27 PM 11/4/2006 -0000, bill wrote:
                                                > >Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                                > >thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out
                                                thoughts
                                                > >as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt
                                                with.
                                                > >Of course being the low thinking type you have to throw in a ding
                                                or
                                                > >two against cops and f.y.i. I know very few meth, heroin or coke
                                                > >addicts that look at their use as a spiritual experience, what a
                                                > >completely moronic claim. Yeah, that line shows you're a real
                                                deep
                                                > >thinker.
                                                > >
                                                > >Then again your whole rap is about weed, your God, and funny that
                                                you
                                                > >didn't show where I threatened to investigate you, more lies which
                                                is
                                                > >par for your course on that fogged in world of yours.
                                                > >
                                                > >I had a buddy named Rick, used to wake up every day and smoke the
                                                > >weed. Did so for at least 15 years that I'm aware of. Back in
                                                the
                                                > >early 80's he and my buddy Bobby got into smoking rock. Bob had a
                                                > >heart attack at 30 that almost killed him and quit everything.
                                                He's
                                                > >got a wife and four kids now but still is on heart meds, what a
                                                shame.
                                                > >
                                                > >Rick, to his credit, stopped everything but weed and was one of
                                                the
                                                > >most paranoid persons you ever met. You certainly can't talk for
                                                all
                                                > >users and neither can I, all I know is Rick dropped dead at 38
                                                from a
                                                > >massive heart attack. Any connection with that and the weed,
                                                maybe.
                                                > >Rick weighed about 425 when he died and had absolutely no pride in
                                                > >himself, self control or ambition in life. He drove a taxi in
                                                Vegas
                                                > >his last few years.
                                                > >
                                                > >Rick was an all everything athelete in high school and in great
                                                > >shape. He taught me how to golf and I still miss his goofy ass.
                                                He
                                                > >wasted his life as do MANY dopers. You can try all you want to
                                                blame
                                                > >the government, guys like me, covert ops, big business or Santa
                                                Claus
                                                > >for what your opinions but it doesn't change the destructive
                                                nature
                                                > >that drugs have on a person's life. That would be the same
                                                regarding
                                                > >their legal status, and if you were honest you'd admit.
                                                > >
                                                > >You are the nutcase who sees the boogeymen everywhere, must be
                                                tough
                                                > >living life always afraid. So afraid you scamper overseas to get
                                                a
                                                > >good nights sleep.
                                                > >
                                                > >Bill
                                                > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                                > >>
                                                > >> At 09:07 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                > >> >Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as
                                                if I
                                                > >> >cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in
                                                a
                                                > >> >person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                                > >from.
                                                > >> >As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with
                                                your
                                                > >> >claims.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Back during my days in Laos it was pretty obvious to me that the
                                                > >people who smoked (the best weed in the world, according to the
                                                CIA)
                                                > >exhibited no particular pattern of paranoid behavior. Maybe the
                                                > >paranoia you refer to is another of the results of prohibition
                                                that
                                                > >you insist on blaming on drug use. How cruel and unusual!
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                                                > >> >they're weak.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Obviously you have no idea what prejudice means, even though you
                                                > >are good at it.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> I'm not prejudiced against any bigot who thinks others are
                                                > >inherently weak. One doesn't have to be. If it walks like a duck
                                                and
                                                > >talks like a duck...
                                                > >>
                                                > >> My experience has been that different people are attracted to
                                                drugs
                                                > >for different reasons. Those who consider it a spiritual practice,
                                                > >and those for whom some drug actually provides therapeutic value,
                                                > >tend to be lifelong consumers. Others try them for the thrill
                                                effect.
                                                > >These are the sociopathic, thrillseeker types who are attracted to
                                                > >the forbidden fruit aspect. They get an adrenalinerush off it
                                                because
                                                > >it is illegal. These criminal types, if they are not smart or
                                                > >connected enough to become successful drug dealers, often become
                                                > >police officers.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                                                > >> >seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical
                                                claims
                                                > >and
                                                > >> >act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Can you even pronounce psychopharmacology? Functional addict?
                                                You
                                                > >mean like someone who drinks coffee several times a day? Or Rush
                                                > >Limbaugh? While I may get a bit hysterical when some idiot with a
                                                > >badge claims to be some kind of neurophysiology expert while
                                                ignoring
                                                > >all the imortant facts (present company excepted, of course), and
                                                > >insteaed incessantly tries to suggest that I am the mentally
                                                unstable
                                                > >one. You are the proponent of torture here, not me.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> In other words you would have people believe as you do, that it
                                                is
                                                > >better for "Oil Ciaduh" to sell tainted heroin in every high
                                                school
                                                > >in the country, than it is for it to be sold by licensed
                                                pharmacists
                                                > >who naturally refuse to sell it to kids, if for no other reason
                                                than
                                                > >to avoid having their license revoked.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Who is the nutcase here, really?
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >You are simply
                                                > >> >dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that
                                                are
                                                > >bad
                                                > >> >for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                                > >makes
                                                > >> >you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                                > >trick
                                                > >> >pony.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Spew all the lies and mythology you want. It only goes to prove
                                                > >that you are not honest. And/or you are grossly misinformed.
                                                And/or
                                                > >you make money off of prohibition. Oh, that's right, you made a
                                                > >career out of it. Ensuring Oil Ciaduh could sell its heroin to
                                                kids
                                                > >for hundreds of times (tens of thousands of percent) what it costs
                                                to
                                                > >produce.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> You are the one who has the selective memory. You don't seem to
                                                > >remember that the CIA, whose function is to make sure stock market
                                                is
                                                > >healthy, admitted aiding the illegal importation of thousands of
                                                tons
                                                > >of cocaine? Thus ensuring a constant influx of hundreds of
                                                billions
                                                > >of dollars per year of laundered prohibition profits into the
                                                stock
                                                > >exchange. In other words, since Reagan took office, all of the old
                                                > >capital in the stock market was removed nd replaced by a) pension
                                                > >funds, and b) prohibition profits. Meaning, at the drop of a hat,
                                                the
                                                > >folks who've been empoverishing you by selling dope to your kids,
                                                can
                                                > >pull their cask out, make the market crash, andhave everyone loose
                                                > >all their pension money. Pretty kewl scam, eh? Too bad the CIA
                                                wasn't
                                                > >smart or corrupt enough to think of that 40 years ago. We'd be up
                                                > >sh*t creek without a paddle by now. Probably resorting to wars of
                                                > >aggression just to divert attention away from domestic issues like
                                                > >the disappearance of the middle class.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Now, the middle class is mostly made up of people who profit
                                                from
                                                > >war and prohibition. All the good jobs have left the country or
                                                only
                                                > >pay 1/3 of what they did 30 years ago.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                                > >few
                                                > >> >enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and
                                                seeing
                                                > >the
                                                > >> >craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                                > >causes
                                                > >> >someone like me to be careful.
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                                > >here.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Can't say as I remember seeing that invitation before, unless it
                                                > >was in reference to busting me for drugs or something like that.
                                                Must
                                                > >be the bud after all. Call me parqanoid, but I'd rather meet you
                                                > >somewhere safe like a coffee shop (weed cafe) in A'dam.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                                > >> >plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                                > >idea.
                                                > >> >You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                                > >keep
                                                > >> >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold
                                                on
                                                > >the
                                                > >> >audience.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> So you admit it is you who are the anonymous hypocrite here.
                                                When
                                                > >you say "brain impaired remarks" do you mean like this?:
                                                > >>
                                                > >> "You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks
                                                and
                                                > >keep
                                                > >> >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold
                                                on
                                                > >the
                                                > >> >audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                                > >> >impressed."
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Projecting again, perhaps?
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                                > >> >Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm
                                                smart
                                                > >> >and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                                > >looked
                                                > >> >at both sides of the issue and things I find important you
                                                don't
                                                > >care
                                                > >> >about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with
                                                little
                                                > >> >personal pride.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Maybe this is getting close to the crux of the problem. Let me
                                                give
                                                > >you a tip. Normally there are about 6 billion sides to any given
                                                > >issue. Yet you insist on only recognizing 2? We call
                                                that "either/or
                                                > >mentality" and recognise that as the root of most problems facing
                                                us.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> The average cop it follows is a selfish person with self-
                                                > >agrandizing pride?
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                                > >> >little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                                > >your
                                                > >> >profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Huh? There you go making stuff up again.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount
                                                to
                                                > >come
                                                > >> >get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even
                                                got
                                                > >a
                                                > >> >discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                                > >type
                                                > >> >of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors
                                                do.
                                                > >Why
                                                > >> >is that?
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Market saturation. Pharma realized they couldn't stop
                                                chiropractic
                                                > >by spreading lies and disinformation, because science was showing
                                                > >that DCs could very often get better results on low back hernias
                                                than
                                                > >the surgeons could, for a fraction of the cost. Insurance
                                                companies
                                                > >began reimbursing for chiro care, having no idea whether they were
                                                > >getting ripped or not. Suddenly chiropractic became one of the
                                                > >cheapest quickest ways to get rich. The colleges got overfilled
                                                with
                                                > >people in it for the money. That was the 80s. Then the crunch came
                                                > >around 90 when I got out of school. Insurance companies slashed
                                                the
                                                > >ammounts they would reimburse. Supposedly they had collected stats
                                                > >for 10 years and now knew what services were really worth. As
                                                little
                                                > >as 10-25% of what the same cases commanded in the 80s.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> So what pharma could not do, insurance did. Only it killed the
                                                > >profession with kindness, before putting the screws to it. Now
                                                > >insurance companies, and lawyers dictate everything from prices to
                                                > >scope of practice.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> A healthy market share is something like one DC per 20-30K pop.
                                                I
                                                > >got out of school in OC to find 1 doc per 2000. That is why there
                                                is
                                                > >so much hustling and admittedly tacky promotional schemes going on
                                                > >out there. And why I moved to greener pastures, where my market
                                                share
                                                > >is more like 1 DC per 80,000 pop. Here I'm not forced to stand
                                                > >outside the supermarkets, or set up a booth at the swapmeet, and
                                                hand
                                                > >out free exam cards.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> I even get paid in cash and the patients send in their own
                                                > >insurance forms! And here, everyone has insurance! Hope that helps
                                                > >set things straight about why I live over here. It is the bottom
                                                line
                                                > >truth. I'm not running from anything except an unhealthy market.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                                > >> >have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after
                                                any
                                                > >> >three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                                > >promotional
                                                > >> >chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                                > >> >
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Got me to smile, but seriously, your offer pales, after one has
                                                met
                                                > >several Barry Seal type CIA get-out-of-jail-free cardholding
                                                kiloton
                                                > >dope pilots.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >Bill
                                                > >> >----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                --
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Since I consistently demonstrate the folly of your position and
                                                > >thus advance in the minds of our "audience" the fact that narcs
                                                are
                                                > >thugs, I am in no hurry to quit. At least not until the end of the
                                                > >WoD, the reinstatement of the Constitution, and the abolition of
                                                > >state secrecy.
                                                > >>
                                                > >> peace,
                                                > >> -KEV
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                                > >> >stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                                > >> >projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references
                                                to
                                                > >> >backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is
                                                certainly
                                                > >> >improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                                > >here
                                                > >> >plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find
                                                out
                                                > >> >who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the
                                                one
                                                > >who
                                                > >> >hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                                > >those
                                                > >> >who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                                > >investigation
                                                > >> >into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                                > >> >argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben
                                                Franklin.
                                                > >You
                                                > >> >seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                                > >> >Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or
                                                covert
                                                > >> >operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                                > >> >everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                                > >> >justify your existence.
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to
                                                watch
                                                > >> >these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a
                                                challenge
                                                > >for
                                                > >> >you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                                > >here,
                                                > >> >after all....
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                                > >Left
                                                > >> >Doesn't Get It
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> World Affairs Council
                                                > >> >> 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                                > >> >> www.itsyourworld.org
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of
                                                faith
                                                > >and
                                                > >> >politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book,
                                                God's
                                                > >> >Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                                > >has
                                                > >> >hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the
                                                Left
                                                > >> >hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and
                                                continually
                                                > >> >separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public
                                                policy.
                                                > >> >Since when did believing in God and having moral values make
                                                you
                                                > >pro-
                                                > >> >war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                                > >and
                                                > >> >pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for
                                                economic
                                                > >> >security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had
                                                to
                                                > >> >put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                                > >each
                                                > >> >of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                                > >> >integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's
                                                public
                                                > >> >life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                                > >security
                                                > >> >apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                                > >supremacy
                                                > >> >alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                                > >everyone
                                                > >> >having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove
                                                the
                                                > >> >threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                                > >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                                > >> >Conservatives Think
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> UCTV: UC San Diego
                                                > >> >> 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                                > >> >> www.uctv.tv
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                                > >George
                                                > >> >Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                                > >using
                                                > >> >language targeted to people's values instead of their support
                                                for
                                                > >> >specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored
                                                by
                                                > >the
                                                > >> >Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison
                                                Lecture
                                                > >> >Series" [Public Affairs]
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                                > >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                                > >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                                > >> >> A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                                > >> >maintains close relationships with top Google representatives
                                                says
                                                > >> >that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and
                                                the
                                                > >> >U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                                > >about
                                                > >> >the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                                > >> >> http://www.oss.org
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                                > >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                                > >> >> Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                                > >> >essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                                > >revulsion
                                                > >> >at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                                > >prevent
                                                > >> >any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                                > >Habeas
                                                > >> >Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                                > >> >nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                                > >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                                > >> >> Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                                > >Professor
                                                > >> >Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                                > >regime,
                                                > >> >the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and
                                                McCoy's
                                                > >new
                                                > >> >book A Question of Torture
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> PoD,
                                                > >> >> -KEV
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >> At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                > >> >> >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try
                                                at
                                                > >a
                                                > >> >> >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't
                                                agree
                                                > >with
                                                > >> >> >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly
                                                bs
                                                > >> >from
                                                > >> >> >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it
                                                to
                                                > >me
                                                > >> >all
                                                > >> >> >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                                > >off,
                                                > >> >it's
                                                > >> >> >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said.
                                                Why
                                                > >> >> >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                                > >it's
                                                > >> >> >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran
                                                > >off
                                                > >> >for
                                                > >> >> >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch
                                                on
                                                > >> >that
                                                > >> >> >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify
                                                weed
                                                > >and
                                                > >> >> >bash this country.
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >Bill
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                                > >> >> >>
                                                > >> >> >>
                                                > >> >> >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as
                                                you
                                                > >> >put
                                                > >> >> >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                                > >> >> >>
                                                > >> >> >>
                                                > >> >> >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                > >> >> >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All
                                                talk
                                                > >> >from
                                                > >> >> >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a
                                                joke,
                                                > >> >and
                                                > >> >> >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                                > >> >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the
                                                courage
                                                > >to
                                                > >> >> >stay
                                                > >> >> >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                                > >other
                                                > >> >side
                                                > >> >> >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                                > >> >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >> >Bill
                                                > >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------
                                                ---
                                                > >---
                                                > >> >---
                                                > >> >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >>
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >> >
                                                > >> >>
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >>
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Dr.KEV
                                                The difference between MJ and hard drugs re: availability is that MJ market is lead by demand, while the hard drugs, being supply-side, require being pushed.
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  The difference between MJ and hard drugs re: availability is that MJ market is lead by demand, while the hard drugs, being supply-side, require being "pushed." Because the organized crime/terror networks want people to use destructive (profitable) drugs instead of MJ, and because of high demand for MJ, the bang-for-buck ratio decidedly favors the hard drugs.

                                                  In other words, it only costs $25/day for a crack or speed habit, but an ounce per week of weed (normal chronic user amount) will cost you several hundred to $1000.

                                                  I am not trying to justify anyones drug use. That is an assumption that you keep asserting which has no basis in fact.

                                                  You claim that drugs were legalized in Holland and that addiction rates increased. Please provide link! Drugs are not legal here. Not even weed. Whatever happened immediately after they began tolerating "coffee shops" (cannabis cafes) 30+ years ago, the situation since before I got here 9 years ago is that addiction rates here are lower across the board than they are in WoD USSA. Probably the only exception is the rate of heroin addiction in people over 40. Reason: US heroin addicts don't live that long! (WoD=genocide!)

                                                  http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
                                                  http://www.csdp.org/research/dutch.pdf
                                                  http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/reinarman.dutch.html
                                                  http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/reinarman.dutch.html
                                                  "After rising sharply from 10,000 in 1979 their number has hovered between 25,000-28,000 for years and is falling as addicts' average age (currently 36) increases. Dutch rehab efforts are applauded by European, and even American, drug-control agencies."

                                                  You claim the authority of not just pharmacologist, but now also, psychiatrist? No, sorry, I'm not "paranoid schizophrenic." Sometimes they really are out to get you. The real definition of paranoid is "being in possession of the facts." So I only get paranoid when I notice I'm not.

                                                  Fact is I really did do time in Laos in early 70s where many of my neighbors did indeed work for the CIA, either overtly, or covertly. In fact after the war ended and carter declassified the Secret War in Laos, I found out from my fellow school mates that many of their parents were CIA. Something that even their kids did not know while we were there. Reagan immediately reclassified everything.

                                                  And yes, Laos was the opium capital of the world at that time. And yes Air America existed and got busted flying opium. Air America was a CIA proprietary. In '72 or '73 as the war began to wind down, some of the pilots banded together, refusing to fly more opium and threatening to expose the operation. 6 of them got shot down in the short span of a few months, and died.

                                                  Being a kid some of the operatives I ran into around town considered me safe to talk to. I was full of questions and they liked to brag. All the little pieces of info I gathered were corroberated, and more, during my last (senior) year there ('74) by the mother of a close schoolmate, who was also the wife of one of the 6 downed pilots.

                                                  When I came back to college in Calif., Nixon was resigning. At that time I suspected him f being involved in the heroin biz, so was happy to see him go. Studying those events since then reveals a different picture. Nixon found out about the trade and tried to stop it. He ordered the opium to be bought and burned a the source. The people (Watergate burglars) who got Nixon in trouble were the same pack of lizards who began their careers planning the Bay of Pigs. These are they guys who apparently got rid of JFK, who was trying o get us out of SEAsia. These guys were CIA. They were the faction that was running the Secret War and the heroin. The same guys who took Nixon down. And who installed Warren Commissioner Gerry Ford to replace him. Ford Appointed Poppy Bush to head CIA. Which I thought was weird since he had suposedly never had any experience with spycraft.

                                                  Evidence has surfaced that Poppy was CIA during Bay of Pigs and JFK assassination days. Two of the boats frm Bay of Pigs were Barbara and Zapata, Poppy's wife and oil company, respectively. A memo also surfaced with Poppy's name on it. Even though the official explanation is that it referred to a different George Bush, when that other Bush was tracked down he proved the memo was not referring to him.

                                                  Poppy comes from Yale and S&B. Kennedy was trying to break up the monopoly the boys from yale had on the CIA. CIA covert ops is full of S&B and other Yale types, to this day.

                                                  Poppy promoted Laos station chief Ted Shackley to CIA No.2, head of covert ops worldwide.

                                                  When Carter declassified Secret War, he also fired Poppy and 600 of his crew, including Shackley. They vowed return to power, and formed what Wm. Casey (Reagan's Iran-Contra-Cocaine CIA chief) called the Enterprise. "An off-the-shelf, self-sustaining intelligence network." These people made a deal with CIA plant, the Ayatolla in Iran, to keep hostages until after election in order to embarass Carter and cost him re-election.

                                                  As soon as they packed up and left Laos, these guys set up shop in Afghanistan, and brought the opium to the country from Laos, to generate funds to support Mujahadeem (nazi Moslem Brotherhood, later Al Ciaduh and Taliban) in fight against USSR. They got much of the Soviet army hooked, as well as keeping plenty of heroin on streets of US and Europe.

                                                  All the while generating huge profits off the drugs as the mddlemen. Opium capital Laos produced about 250 tons of opium per year during Vietnam Conflict. In 2001, Taliban destroyed entire ripe opium crop estimated at 2000 tones. (In retalliation for US oil companies refusing a fair deal on Afgh pipeline.) Today Afgh is producing 6500 tones of opium per year. If the Taliban could eradicate the whole crop, so could the US military, if it were allowed to.

                                                  Whether you get it or not, bill, I love the land of my birth, and it is out of that love that I do what I do, trying to expose the treasonous bastards who have taken over our country. They can't do it without the blind obedience of people like you.

                                                  William Cooper, the fated pilot in the "Hassenfus" plane that crashed in Nicaragua and triggered the Iran-Contra scandal, was a family friend. He was only one of the several "special" pilots I met in Laos. These were the crazy ones who would fly anything for deposits in Swiss accounts. The Barry Seal types. Seal was only the tip of the iceberg even though he is touted as the biggest dope smuggler in history. He was just one of many.

                                                  So, please refrain from the paranoid comments. And please reevaluate who it is that you serve. The people or the dopelords?

                                                  """Bill: You're whole rap appaers to be based on a functional disorder
                                                  you might have that has made the world a very scary place for you.
                                                  Legalization for whom Kev? Would pregnant women, judges,
                                                  politicians, public transportation workers like bus drivers or train
                                                  conductor, cops, soldiers, firemen, and children be allowed free
                                                  access like everyone else or would a black market exist for them?
                                                  Tell me how none of them would want to partake."""

                                                  "Functional disorder" I don't think so, other than that the new American dictatorship considers a sharp memory to be a "functional disorder." Let me clue you in on a little secret, all those people are already using drugs daily, and the world didn't fall apart. Except that now people who use drugs and work in sensitive positions are subject to blackmail. Again prohibition creates a problem that would otherwise not exist.

                                                  """"
                                                  >Kev: Maybe bill has busted a lot of liquor store owners down at the
                                                  school yard giving kids their first bottles for free.
                                                  >
                                                  Bill: Apples and oranges, you're quite limited in this arguement
                                                  aren't you Kev? You make no type of point with that type of
                                                  arguement.
                                                  """""'

                                                  Is it being evil (ignorant?) or stupidity that keeps you from understanding? Liquor store owners have a vested interest in not selling to kids. If they do they loose their license.

                                                  Al Ciaduh, on the other hand, has every motivation in the world to sell to kids since they are most likely to be the ones stupid enough to start using something for which the WoD, if not addiction, will destroy their lives. Legal regulated and licened drug dealers are much less likely to sell to kids than the army of addicts AlCiaduh uses to distribute drugs in schools.

                                                  Your cavalier sarcasm about investing where you get the "most bang for my buck" pretty well sums it up. Prohibitionists are parasites. The WoD is a runaway juggernaught that is destroying the country ultimtely by being the only profitable industry besides "defense" (oh, you say they are both the same thing!) to invest in.

                                                  No, I do not believe drugs are good for you. Yes, I have pointed out that science has shown that cannabis makes people live longer while avoiding cancer and Alzheimer's. I still am clueless whether you are really having a hard time understanding plain english or are being disengenuous because you seem to twist everything I say so it fits into your limited, highly biased paradigm.

                                                  BECAUSE ALCOHOL PROHBITION PROVED A DISASTER, IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE WoD WAS A MISTAKE FROM THE GET-GO.

                                                  Your constant equating "illegal" drug effects with those of alcohol is, again a sign of disengenuity or inability to comprehend reality. Since you claim to have used several drugs before becoming a peace officer, the disengenuous theory seems more plausible.

                                                  It may be impossible for you to understand but I come from a very patriotic family, most of whom served the people as govt employees of one kind or other. I'm the first male who is not a veteran. The reason for that is because of what I found out about how things are really run while in high school in Laos during the war. It became clear to me that I could better serve my country by remaining a private citizen and attempting to spread the truth about how entrenched the corruption is in DC.

                                                  Since I ws still a young pup, getting people to believe me turned out to be difficuly, to put it mildly. So I began looking for any corroborating evidence available in the public record, that I could find. It turns out that you do not have to believe a word I say because everything I say can be proven, has been proven by testimony of whistleblowers and other events.

                                                  Genie and I started She Who Remembers in early 1990 to actively collect and disseminate the info that proves I am not a nutcase as you would have people believe.

                                                  You are the one who works in some secret position for the govt, unable to tell the truth without breaking secrecy laws.

                                                  The fact that there is plenty of propaganda you call credible that attempts to refute everything I profess, and suggests that I am insane due to drug toxicity only proves that powerful forces are intent upon perpetuating the "WoD is good myth." You are obviously in bed with them due either to lack of integrity or intelligence.

                                                  If you have posted any credible evidence that I have failed to address, please repost it because I must have missed it in the shuffle.

                                                  I am certainly not "little girl dope dependent running man" despite what your fantasy dictates. If I was running, I certainly would not be here confronting you. The only reason 90% of this list is not also similarly confronting you is that they are terrified (by govt and prohibition) from speaking out.

                                                  In a sense you are right because the country you live in is not the one I was born in anymore. My country was famous for having due process of law and a Bill of Rights that protected the individual from the govt.

                                                  But I will keep fighting for my free America as long as I am able, from wherever I am exiled to. You know, the America that can find something useful for bill to do, and something less painful for me to have to do to be a patriot. It is a drag all the dope I have to smoke just to prove to people like you that it is harmless, if not healthy.

                                                  God(dess) bless!
                                                  -KEV



                                                  At 01:08 AM 11/6/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                  >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@...> wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> At 08:27 PM 11/4/2006 -0000, bill wrote:
                                                  >> >Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                                  >> >thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out
                                                  >thoughts
                                                  >> >as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt
                                                  >with.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Kev: There you go again attacking me in order to avoid providing
                                                  >cogent arguments to refute my assertions. This is typical of the type
                                                  >of people we have working for govt., folks. Pretty sad isn't it.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: There isn't a post you make where you don't attack me or make a
                                                  >snide remark about law enforcement, so quit acting like you're pure
                                                  >in the way you respond. You're acting like a little girl as usual.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: I guess you musta hanged out with some brilliant heads then, eh
                                                  >bill? If they were all smarter than me.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: They didn't try to justify their use, they knew better, you
                                                  >don't. Score one for them.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: Let me try to state this simply and concisely so even bill can
                                                  >understand it.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: Another snide little girl type remark, go ahead hypocrite.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: While drugs are potentially dstructive in themselves, making
                                                  >them illegal only amplifies the damage manyfold. One result of
                                                  >prohibition is that all you can get anymore are destructive drugs.
                                                  >Heroin, coke, crack, and crank are all over the place, sold by
                                                  >terrorist groups (intelligence agencies) to kids right in the
                                                  >schools.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: Name the terrorist groups on our school grounds. Also
                                                  >explain "potentially destructive". Your second line means exactly
                                                  >what, it sounds like bs to me? Are you saying weed is destructive,
                                                  >you can still get it? This paragraph lacks any type of coherent
                                                  >thought.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: Traditionally spiritual drugs (entheogens) are comparatively
                                                  >difficult to find. Meanwhile, XTC is all over the place. In a free
                                                  >market, you would see a much different pattern of relative
                                                  >consumption rates. People would avoid stupid drugs in favor of the
                                                  >smart ones that organized criminal spook terrorists don't want you to
                                                  >have.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: Yeah, consumption rates would go up. After legalization first
                                                  >took place in your new home country adiction rates went up, look it
                                                  >up I did. Your paranoia and everything's a conspiracy run by the
                                                  >C.I.A. shows through again with your spook line. Have you been
                                                  >diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic because you sure sound that way?
                                                  >>
                                                  >Kev: I still don't understand why bill prefers terrorists to
                                                  >pharmacists, but if you ask me, it still seems like a pretty stupid
                                                  >idea. -Passing out all sorts of highly addictive substances to kids
                                                  >in exchange for having them rip off everything they possibly can. And
                                                  >then blaming it on drugs in order to justify even stricter penalties,
                                                  >increasing risk to dealers, further inflating the prices, and thus,
                                                  >maximizing profits to terrorist organizations! Brilliant bill!
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: You're whole rap appaers to be based on a functional disorder
                                                  >you might have that has made the world a very scary place for you.
                                                  >Legalization for whom Kev? Would pregnant women, judges,
                                                  >politicians, public transportation workers like bus drivers or train
                                                  >conductor, cops, soldiers, firemen, and children be allowed free
                                                  >access like everyone else or would a black market exist for them?
                                                  >Tell me how none of them would want to partake.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: Maybe bill really is terrified that should drugs become legal,
                                                  >he is going to immediately go out and start mainlining huge loads of
                                                  >heroin.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: Unlike you I'm not weak minded and/or need any type of product,
                                                  >legal or illegal, on a daily basis. More little girl talk, will you
                                                  >ever grow up and post like a man?
                                                  >
                                                  >>Kev: Maybe bill has busted a lot of liquor store owners down at the
                                                  >school yard giving kids their first bottles for free.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: Apples and oranges, you're quite limited in this arguement
                                                  >aren't you Kev? You make no type of point with that type of
                                                  >arguement.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: Maybe bill has pension money invested in privatized prisons.
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: Not that I'm aware of, but I'm open to moving what funds I
                                                  >invest around where I can get the most bang for my buck.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: All I know is that if drugs were as horrible as bill says they
                                                  >are, nobody would use them. And they would qualify as their own
                                                  >punishment.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: That's what I've said about you from the get-go that you've
                                                  >denied. You believe drugs are good for you so there you have it.
                                                  >They're not, they have little beneficial value for anyone and that
                                                  >includes alcohol. BECAUSE SOME ARE LEGAL THAT ARE ALSO BAD FOR YOU
                                                  >DOES NOT JUSTIFY LEGALIZATION OF OTHERS!!! I'm just wondering if
                                                  >there's anything in your life that you can get enjoyment from absent
                                                  >weed or any other drug you might take?
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: Whether bill is really as ignorant as he acts, or he is
                                                  >deliberately telling lies, he is obviously a piss-poor excuse for a
                                                  >govt employee, let alone a human being.
                                                  >
                                                  >Bill: Like I care what a waste case little girl dope dependent
                                                  >running man like you thinks. I've known weak kneed people like you
                                                  >all my life Kev, you're a big mouthed paranoid piece of crap that
                                                  >can't make a case for anything but what long term drug use does to
                                                  >the common sense a person has. Yours is gone, if you ever had it.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: How long the public is going to continue to tolerate being ruled
                                                  >over by thugs like this I do not know. Maybe they just never
                                                  >realized their tax dollars were being spent paying the bloated
                                                  >salaries of people like this. Sieg Heil, comrade!
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: This isn't your country or your public Kev, it's mine. You ran
                                                  >a long time ago remember. You have no standing here, you ran like
                                                  >any other common criminal or coward.
                                                  >
                                                  >Kev: Democracy means getting the govt we deserve.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: You got yours in the land of free dope use, your happy home.
                                                  >The U.S.A. is not your home.
                                                  >
                                                  >>Kev: I pretty much rest my case since bill refuses (is unable) to
                                                  >come up with any reliable sources to back up his totally unreliable
                                                  >pro-terrorism rhetoric.
                                                  >>
                                                  >Bill: I already posted something before this, little boy paranoid,
                                                  >reagarding problems you're probably already experiencing with your
                                                  >long term use, and you won't be able to answer things I posted here.
                                                  >You're just a big mouthed addict and nothing more. There are plenty
                                                  >of credible sources all over the net that agrees with my position on
                                                  >the societal problems that legalization would magnify, but they're
                                                  >all "skewed" because a guy who had to run over seas to make his case
                                                  >says so. You are the ultimate authority, all bow down to Kev. Not!!
                                                  >
                                                  >Be happy in your fogged in existence boy. You're a quack.
                                                  >
                                                  >Bill
                                                  >------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  >> peace,
                                                  >> -KEV
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> At 08:27 PM 11/4/2006 -0000, bill wrote:
                                                  >> >Your brain dead reply shows that you simply have a problem with
                                                  >> >thinking clearly. No need to reply to all your whacked out
                                                  >thoughts
                                                  >> >as you are no smarter then any other common doper I ever dealt
                                                  >with.
                                                  >> >Of course being the low thinking type you have to throw in a ding
                                                  >or
                                                  >> >two against cops and f.y.i. I know very few meth, heroin or coke
                                                  >> >addicts that look at their use as a spiritual experience, what a
                                                  >> >completely moronic claim. Yeah, that line shows you're a real
                                                  >deep
                                                  >> >thinker.
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >Then again your whole rap is about weed, your God, and funny that
                                                  >you
                                                  >> >didn't show where I threatened to investigate you, more lies which
                                                  >is
                                                  >> >par for your course on that fogged in world of yours.
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >I had a buddy named Rick, used to wake up every day and smoke the
                                                  >> >weed. Did so for at least 15 years that I'm aware of. Back in
                                                  >the
                                                  >> >early 80's he and my buddy Bobby got into smoking rock. Bob had a
                                                  >> >heart attack at 30 that almost killed him and quit everything.
                                                  >He's
                                                  >> >got a wife and four kids now but still is on heart meds, what a
                                                  >shame.
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >Rick, to his credit, stopped everything but weed and was one of
                                                  >the
                                                  >> >most paranoid persons you ever met. You certainly can't talk for
                                                  >all
                                                  >> >users and neither can I, all I know is Rick dropped dead at 38
                                                  >from a
                                                  >> >massive heart attack. Any connection with that and the weed,
                                                  >maybe.
                                                  >> >Rick weighed about 425 when he died and had absolutely no pride in
                                                  >> >himself, self control or ambition in life. He drove a taxi in
                                                  >Vegas
                                                  >> >his last few years.
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >Rick was an all everything athelete in high school and in great
                                                  >> >shape. He taught me how to golf and I still miss his goofy ass.
                                                  >He
                                                  >> >wasted his life as do MANY dopers. You can try all you want to
                                                  >blame
                                                  >> >the government, guys like me, covert ops, big business or Santa
                                                  >Claus
                                                  >> >for what your opinions but it doesn't change the destructive
                                                  >nature
                                                  >> >that drugs have on a person's life. That would be the same
                                                  >regarding
                                                  >> >their legal status, and if you were honest you'd admit.
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >You are the nutcase who sees the boogeymen everywhere, must be
                                                  >tough
                                                  >> >living life always afraid. So afraid you scamper overseas to get
                                                  >a
                                                  >> >good nights sleep.
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >Bill
                                                  >> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> At 09:07 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                  >> >> >Threaten to investigate you? You're out of your mind Kev, as
                                                  >if I
                                                  >> >> >cared about you or your rantings. Paranoia is normal though in
                                                  >a
                                                  >> >> >person with your habits, so I understand where you're coming
                                                  >> >from.
                                                  >> >> >As usual you go to the farthest corner of the universe with
                                                  >your
                                                  >> >> >claims.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Back during my days in Laos it was pretty obvious to me that the
                                                  >> >people who smoked (the best weed in the world, according to the
                                                  >CIA)
                                                  >> >exhibited no particular pattern of paranoid behavior. Maybe the
                                                  >> >paranoia you refer to is another of the results of prohibition
                                                  >that
                                                  >> >you insist on blaming on drug use. How cruel and unusual!
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >I'm not prejudiced towards anyone who uses drugs, just feel
                                                  >> >> >they're weak.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Obviously you have no idea what prejudice means, even though you
                                                  >> >are good at it.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> I'm not prejudiced against any bigot who thinks others are
                                                  >> >inherently weak. One doesn't have to be. If it walks like a duck
                                                  >and
                                                  >> >talks like a duck...
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> My experience has been that different people are attracted to
                                                  >drugs
                                                  >> >for different reasons. Those who consider it a spiritual practice,
                                                  >> >and those for whom some drug actually provides therapeutic value,
                                                  >> >tend to be lifelong consumers. Others try them for the thrill
                                                  >effect.
                                                  >> >These are the sociopathic, thrillseeker types who are attracted to
                                                  >> >the forbidden fruit aspect. They get an adrenalinerush off it
                                                  >because
                                                  >> >it is illegal. These criminal types, if they are not smart or
                                                  >> >connected enough to become successful drug dealers, often become
                                                  >> >police officers.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> I've said before I've known functional addicts but you
                                                  >> >> >seem to gloss over what I've said to spout your hysterical
                                                  >claims
                                                  >> >and
                                                  >> >> >act is if you were some kind of guru on the subject.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Can you even pronounce psychopharmacology? Functional addict?
                                                  >You
                                                  >> >mean like someone who drinks coffee several times a day? Or Rush
                                                  >> >Limbaugh? While I may get a bit hysterical when some idiot with a
                                                  >> >badge claims to be some kind of neurophysiology expert while
                                                  >ignoring
                                                  >> >all the imortant facts (present company excepted, of course), and
                                                  >> >insteaed incessantly tries to suggest that I am the mentally
                                                  >unstable
                                                  >> >one. You are the proponent of torture here, not me.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> In other words you would have people believe as you do, that it
                                                  >is
                                                  >> >better for "Oil Ciaduh" to sell tainted heroin in every high
                                                  >school
                                                  >> >in the country, than it is for it to be sold by licensed
                                                  >pharmacists
                                                  >> >who naturally refuse to sell it to kids, if for no other reason
                                                  >than
                                                  >> >to avoid having their license revoked.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Who is the nutcase here, really?
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >You are simply
                                                  >> >> >dillusional, probably from your life long use of things that
                                                  >are
                                                  >> >bad
                                                  >> >> >for you. If you eat to many burgers you get fat, too much weed
                                                  >> >makes
                                                  >> >> >you memory impaired, you're a classic example. You are a one
                                                  >> >trick
                                                  >> >> >pony.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Spew all the lies and mythology you want. It only goes to prove
                                                  >> >that you are not honest. And/or you are grossly misinformed.
                                                  >And/or
                                                  >> >you make money off of prohibition. Oh, that's right, you made a
                                                  >> >career out of it. Ensuring Oil Ciaduh could sell its heroin to
                                                  >kids
                                                  >> >for hundreds of times (tens of thousands of percent) what it costs
                                                  >to
                                                  >> >produce.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> You are the one who has the selective memory. You don't seem to
                                                  >> >remember that the CIA, whose function is to make sure stock market
                                                  >is
                                                  >> >healthy, admitted aiding the illegal importation of thousands of
                                                  >tons
                                                  >> >of cocaine? Thus ensuring a constant influx of hundreds of
                                                  >billions
                                                  >> >of dollars per year of laundered prohibition profits into the
                                                  >stock
                                                  >> >exchange. In other words, since Reagan took office, all of the old
                                                  >> >capital in the stock market was removed nd replaced by a) pension
                                                  >> >funds, and b) prohibition profits. Meaning, at the drop of a hat,
                                                  >the
                                                  >> >folks who've been empoverishing you by selling dope to your kids,
                                                  >can
                                                  >> >pull their cask out, make the market crash, andhave everyone loose
                                                  >> >all their pension money. Pretty kewl scam, eh? Too bad the CIA
                                                  >wasn't
                                                  >> >smart or corrupt enough to think of that 40 years ago. We'd be up
                                                  >> >sh*t creek without a paddle by now. Probably resorting to wars of
                                                  >> >aggression just to divert attention away from domestic issues like
                                                  >> >the disappearance of the middle class.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Now, the middle class is mostly made up of people who profit
                                                  >from
                                                  >> >war and prohibition. All the good jobs have left the country or
                                                  >only
                                                  >> >pay 1/3 of what they did 30 years ago.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >Yeah, having fought the good battle for years and having made a
                                                  >> >few
                                                  >> >> >enemies along the way, and talking to people like you and
                                                  >seeing
                                                  >> >the
                                                  >> >> >craziness of others on this site and other places on the net,
                                                  >> >causes
                                                  >> >> >someone like me to be careful.
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >However, I have told you I'd meet you in person anytime you're
                                                  >> >here.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Can't say as I remember seeing that invitation before, unless it
                                                  >> >was in reference to busting me for drugs or something like that.
                                                  >Must
                                                  >> >be the bud after all. Call me parqanoid, but I'd rather meet you
                                                  >> >somewhere safe like a coffee shop (weed cafe) in A'dam.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >I must not worry as much as you believe about anonymity, but
                                                  >> >> >plastering facts about ones self all over the net isn't a good
                                                  >> >idea.
                                                  >> >> >You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks and
                                                  >> >keep
                                                  >> >> >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold
                                                  >on
                                                  >> >the
                                                  >> >> >audience.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> So you admit it is you who are the anonymous hypocrite here.
                                                  >When
                                                  >> >you say "brain impaired remarks" do you mean like this?:
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> "You on the other hand will take your brain impaired remarks
                                                  >and
                                                  >> >keep
                                                  >> >> >them in this forum, where you think you have some magical hold
                                                  >on
                                                  >> >the
                                                  >> >> >audience. I on the other hand consider the crowd and I'm not
                                                  >> >> >impressed."
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Projecting again, perhaps?
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >By the way Kevy, I'm a college graduate too, lest you forget.
                                                  >> >> >Probably didn't get as far as a doctor did, but you know I'm
                                                  >smart
                                                  >> >> >and could care about any lecture you point me towards. I've
                                                  >> >looked
                                                  >> >> >at both sides of the issue and things I find important you
                                                  >don't
                                                  >> >care
                                                  >> >> >about. The average doper is simply a selfish person with
                                                  >little
                                                  >> >> >personal pride.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Maybe this is getting close to the crux of the problem. Let me
                                                  >give
                                                  >> >you a tip. Normally there are about 6 billion sides to any given
                                                  >> >issue. Yet you insist on only recognizing 2? We call
                                                  >that "either/or
                                                  >> >mentality" and recognise that as the root of most problems facing
                                                  >us.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> The average cop it follows is a selfish person with self-
                                                  >> >agrandizing pride?
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >I do wonder though about something since you like to throw your
                                                  >> >> >little zingers out about your education while crying about how
                                                  >> >your
                                                  >> >> >profession gets not as much respect as it deserves.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Huh? There you go making stuff up again.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >People in your line over here give out coupons for a discount
                                                  >to
                                                  >> >come
                                                  >> >> >get a check up. They advertise in some newspapers and I even
                                                  >got
                                                  >> >a
                                                  >> >> >discount coupon at a recent golf tourney I played in. No other
                                                  >> >type
                                                  >> >> >of doctor does that here that I'm aware of but chiropractors
                                                  >do.
                                                  >> >Why
                                                  >> >> >is that?
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Market saturation. Pharma realized they couldn't stop
                                                  >chiropractic
                                                  >> >by spreading lies and disinformation, because science was showing
                                                  >> >that DCs could very often get better results on low back hernias
                                                  >than
                                                  >> >the surgeons could, for a fraction of the cost. Insurance
                                                  >companies
                                                  >> >began reimbursing for chiro care, having no idea whether they were
                                                  >> >getting ripped or not. Suddenly chiropractic became one of the
                                                  >> >cheapest quickest ways to get rich. The colleges got overfilled
                                                  >with
                                                  >> >people in it for the money. That was the 80s. Then the crunch came
                                                  >> >around 90 when I got out of school. Insurance companies slashed
                                                  >the
                                                  >> >ammounts they would reimburse. Supposedly they had collected stats
                                                  >> >for 10 years and now knew what services were really worth. As
                                                  >little
                                                  >> >as 10-25% of what the same cases commanded in the 80s.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> So what pharma could not do, insurance did. Only it killed the
                                                  >> >profession with kindness, before putting the screws to it. Now
                                                  >> >insurance companies, and lawyers dictate everything from prices to
                                                  >> >scope of practice.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> A healthy market share is something like one DC per 20-30K pop.
                                                  >I
                                                  >> >got out of school in OC to find 1 doc per 2000. That is why there
                                                  >is
                                                  >> >so much hustling and admittedly tacky promotional schemes going on
                                                  >> >out there. And why I moved to greener pastures, where my market
                                                  >share
                                                  >> >is more like 1 DC per 80,000 pop. Here I'm not forced to stand
                                                  >> >outside the supermarkets, or set up a booth at the swapmeet, and
                                                  >hand
                                                  >> >out free exam cards.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> I even get paid in cash and the patients send in their own
                                                  >> >insurance forms! And here, everyone has insurance! Hope that helps
                                                  >> >set things straight about why I live over here. It is the bottom
                                                  >line
                                                  >> >truth. I'm not running from anything except an unhealthy market.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >As a cop I didn't give out coupons for anything, maybe I should
                                                  >> >> >have. One free violation of your choice (misdeameanor) after
                                                  >any
                                                  >> >> >three felony arrests because you're helping my stats and
                                                  >> >promotional
                                                  >> >> >chances. One free possession charge for you Kev, not bad huh?
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Got me to smile, but seriously, your offer pales, after one has
                                                  >met
                                                  >> >several Barry Seal type CIA get-out-of-jail-free cardholding
                                                  >kiloton
                                                  >> >dope pilots.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >You'll never out talk me smart ass, how about just giving up?
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >Bill
                                                  >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  >--
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> Since I consistently demonstrate the folly of your position and
                                                  >> >thus advance in the minds of our "audience" the fact that narcs
                                                  >are
                                                  >> >thugs, I am in no hurry to quit. At least not until the end of the
                                                  >> >WoD, the reinstatement of the Constitution, and the abolition of
                                                  >> >state secrecy.
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> peace,
                                                  >> >> -KEV
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> Bill your prejudice toward anyone who "uses drugs" is so
                                                  >> >> >stereotypical it hurts. Most of what you accuse me of is pure
                                                  >> >> >projection. I provide you with a wealth of credible references
                                                  >to
                                                  >> >> >backup what I say and you just call me a nut. My life is
                                                  >certainly
                                                  >> >> >improbable, but I'm not fake. I've posted my name and location
                                                  >> >here
                                                  >> >> >plenty of times, and if you check out my websites you can find
                                                  >out
                                                  >> >> >who I am in a couple of clicks. You on the other hand are the
                                                  >one
                                                  >> >who
                                                  >> >> >hides behind anonymity. The hypocrisy does not escape most of
                                                  >> >those
                                                  >> >> >who follow this thread. After threatening to launch an
                                                  >> >investigation
                                                  >> >> >into me it is no wonder few people jump in on my side of the
                                                  >> >> >argument. However NOBODY ever agrees with you on this issue.
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> It doesn't surprise me that you don't care about Ben
                                                  >Franklin.
                                                  >> >You
                                                  >> >> >seem to know or care little about the founding fathers and the
                                                  >> >> >Constitution. Nor do you have a clue about human nature or
                                                  >covert
                                                  >> >> >operations. You are embarassing yourself and police officers
                                                  >> >> >everywhere with the wholly incompetent arguments you proffer to
                                                  >> >> >justify your existence.
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> If there is a shred of decency in you, force yourself to
                                                  >watch
                                                  >> >> >these two lectures. I know college level curricula is a
                                                  >challenge
                                                  >> >for
                                                  >> >> >you, but you can do it if you try. We're only talking sociology
                                                  >> >here,
                                                  >> >> >after all....
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> 30 Oct 06 Monday
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> 3:57 AM - God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the
                                                  >> >Left
                                                  >> >> >Doesn't Get It
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> World Affairs Council
                                                  >> >> >> 1 hr 7 min 4 sec - Apr 18, 2005
                                                  >> >> >> www.itsyourworld.org
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> Jim Wallis has been a leading voice at the crossroads of
                                                  >faith
                                                  >> >and
                                                  >> >> >politics in Washington for nearly 30 years. In his new book,
                                                  >God's
                                                  >> >> >Politics, Mr. Wallis postulates that while the Right in America
                                                  >> >has
                                                  >> >> >hijacked the language of faith for its political agenda, the
                                                  >Left
                                                  >> >> >hasn't done much better by largely ignoring faith and
                                                  >continually
                                                  >> >> >separating moral discourse and personal ethics from public
                                                  >policy.
                                                  >> >> >Since when did believing in God and having moral values make
                                                  >you
                                                  >> >pro-
                                                  >> >> >war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting
                                                  >> >and
                                                  >> >> >pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for
                                                  >economic
                                                  >> >> >security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had
                                                  >to
                                                  >> >> >put faith in God aside? In God's Politics, Mr. Wallis calls for
                                                  >> >each
                                                  >> >> >of us to hold our political leaders and policies accountable by
                                                  >> >> >integrating our deepest moral convictions into our nation's
                                                  >public
                                                  >> >> >life. He also calls for a moral response to terrorism - no
                                                  >> >security
                                                  >> >> >apart from a common security. Wallis believes that military
                                                  >> >supremacy
                                                  >> >> >alone will not bring peace and that avoiding war depends on
                                                  >> >everyone
                                                  >> >> >having enough for their own security. The U.S. cannot remove
                                                  >the
                                                  >> >> >threats of war until we remove the injustice of global poverty.
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7749124113435101196
                                                  >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> 3:31 AM - George Lakoff on Moral Politics: How Liberals and
                                                  >> >> >Conservatives Think
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> UCTV: UC San Diego
                                                  >> >> >> 58 min 57 sec - Nov 21, 2005
                                                  >> >> >> www.uctv.tv
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> UC Berkeley professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics
                                                  >> >George
                                                  >> >> >Lakoff explores how successful political debates are framed by
                                                  >> >using
                                                  >> >> >language targeted to people's values instead of their support
                                                  >for
                                                  >> >> >specific government programs in this public lecture sponsored
                                                  >by
                                                  >> >the
                                                  >> >> >Helen Edison Series at UC San Diego. Series: "Helen Edison
                                                  >Lecture
                                                  >> >> >Series" [Public Affairs]
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3114412735990235786
                                                  >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> And don't forget to listen to these new interviews!
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> 9/11 & Google and the CIA: Robert David Steele
                                                  >> >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/271006steele.mp3
                                                  >> >> >> A former clandestine services officer for the CIA who also
                                                  >> >> >maintains close relationships with top Google representatives
                                                  >says
                                                  >> >> >that the company is "in bed with" the intelligence agency and
                                                  >the
                                                  >> >> >U.S. government. He has also gone public on his deep suspicions
                                                  >> >about
                                                  >> >> >the official explanation behind 9/11.
                                                  >> >> >> http://www.oss.org
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> Gore Vidal: The Bush Junta and 9/11
                                                  >> >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/231006vidal.mp3
                                                  >> >> >> Controversial and prolific author, political commentator and
                                                  >> >> >essayist Gore Vidal is assured that the military's growing
                                                  >> >revulsion
                                                  >> >> >at the Bush junta's policies would ensure they would try and
                                                  >> >prevent
                                                  >> >> >any false flag staged terror attack, while slamming the end of
                                                  >> >Habeas
                                                  >> >> >Corpus and the administration's coup de 'tat of America on a
                                                  >> >> >nationally syndicated radio broadcast.
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> Military Commissions Act: Prof. Alfred McCoy
                                                  >> >> >> http://www.kosmc.net/pptv/audio/171006mccoy.mp3
                                                  >> >> >> Alex is joined by University of Wisconsin-Madison History
                                                  >> >Professor
                                                  >> >> >Alfred McCoy to discuss the open torture policy of the Bush
                                                  >> >regime,
                                                  >> >> >the Millitary Commissions Act signed into law today, and
                                                  >McCoy's
                                                  >> >new
                                                  >> >> >book A Question of Torture
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> PoD,
                                                  >> >> >> -KEV
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> At 02:52 PM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                  >> >> >> >I could care less about Ben, I'm talking about you, nice try
                                                  >at
                                                  >> >a
                                                  >> >> >> >deflection. Bottom line is you feel if someone doesn't
                                                  >agree
                                                  >> >with
                                                  >> >> >> >your stance you can dumb-down them and say flat out cowardly
                                                  >bs
                                                  >> >> >from
                                                  >> >> >> >your safe zone...and you're right that you can. You do it
                                                  >to
                                                  >> >me
                                                  >> >> >all
                                                  >> >> >> >the time. It certainly isn't mainly though the way you pop
                                                  >> >off,
                                                  >> >> >it's
                                                  >> >> >> >weak and I'm sure you know it.
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >I on the other hand just post back using what you've said.
                                                  >Why
                                                  >> >> >> >you're so concerned about this country anyway is beyond me,
                                                  >> >it's
                                                  >> >> >> >really none of your business. You don't live here. You ran
                                                  >> >off
                                                  >> >> >for
                                                  >> >> >> >love, or so you say. Kind of hard to believe when you touch
                                                  >on
                                                  >> >> >that
                                                  >> >> >> >so lightly and use your typing time to attempt to glorify
                                                  >weed
                                                  >> >and
                                                  >> >> >> >bash this country.
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >It just sounds so phoney in my opinion, not that you care.
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >Bill
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >--- In KLOS_Impact@yahoogroups.com, "Dr.KEV" <avtar@> wrote:
                                                  >> >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> >> Evidently, then, Ben Franklin didn't have the courage, as
                                                  >you
                                                  >> >> >put
                                                  >> >> >> >it, to live in the states for many years, as well.
                                                  >> >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> >> At 06:13 AM 11/3/2006 -0000, you wrote:
                                                  >> >> >> >> >Whatever medication you're on needs to be tripled. All
                                                  >talk
                                                  >> >> >from
                                                  >> >> >> >> >your safe haven that you ran to lickety split. Your a
                                                  >joke,
                                                  >> >> >and
                                                  >> >> >> >> >this post of yours prove it.
                                                  >> >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >> >This isn't your country stoner, you didn't have the
                                                  >courage
                                                  >> >to
                                                  >> >> >> >stay
                                                  >> >> >> >> >here remember? Keep talking your paranoid rap from the
                                                  >> >other
                                                  >> >> >side
                                                  >> >> >> >> >of the planet, we have enough mental cases here.
                                                  >> >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >> >Bill
                                                  >> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------
                                                  >---
                                                  >> >---
                                                  >> >> >---
                                                  >> >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >>
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >> >
                                                  >> >>
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
                                                  >> >
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                                                  >
                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
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