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RE: [JustPeaceUK] Collective Punishment and Terror

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  • Ron Cohen
    1. it is not clear what did they meant by military grade , let alone to draw the conclusion that it was smuggled . it is probably an israeli military grade .
    Message 1 of 7 , May 1, 2003
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      1. it is not clear what did they meant by "military grade", let alone
      to draw the conclusion that it was smuggled . it is probably an israeli
      "military grade". haven't you heard about the IDF soldiers from the west
      bank settlements who sold weapons in the west bank? or the military
      arsenals which were raided? though the question of arming a popular revolt
      is very intersting, this is not the point here. see below.

      2. no.
      (from the The Wretched of the Earth)
      "The existence of an armed struggle shows that the people are decided to trust to violent
      methods only. He of whom they have never stopped saying that the only language he
      understands is that of force, decides to give utterance by force. In fact, as always, the
      settler has shown him the way he should take if he is to become free. The argument the
      native chooses has been furnished by the settler, and by an ironic turning of the tables
      it is the native who now affirms that the colonialist understands nothing but force. The
      colonial regime owes its legitimacy to force and at no time tries to hide this aspect of
      things. Every statue, whether of Faidherbe or of Lyautey, of Bugeaud or of Sergeant
      Blandan - all these conquistadors perched on colonial soil do not cease from proclaiming
      one and the same thing: "We are here by the force of bayonets. . . ."

      "The violence of the colonial regime and the counter-violence of the native balance each
      other and respond to each other in an extraordinary reciprocal homogeneity. This reign of
      violence will be the more terrible in proportion to the size of the implantation from the
      mother country. The development of violence among the colonized people will be
      proportionate to the violence exercised by the threatened colonial regime. In the first
      phase of this insurrectional period, the home governments are the slaves of the settlers,
      and these settlers seek to intimidate the natives and their home governments at one and
      the same time. They use the same methods against both of them. The assassination of the
      Mayor of Evian, in its method and motivation, is identifiable with the assassination of
      Ali Boumendjel. For the settlers, the alternative is not between Algerie algerienne and
      Algerie francaise but between an independent Algeria and a colonial Algeria, and anything
      else is mere talk or attempts at treason. The settler's logic is implacable and one is
      only staggered by the counter-logic visible in the behavior of the native insofar as one
      has not clearly understood before hand the mechanisms of the settler's ideas. From the
      moment that the native has chosen the methods of counter-violence, police reprisals
      automatically call forth reprisals on the side of the nationalists. However, the results
      are not equivalent, for machine-gunning from airplanes and bombardments from the fleet go
      far beyond in horror and magnitude any answer the natives can make. This recurring terror
      de-mystifies once and for all the most estranged members of the colonized race. They find
      out on the spot that all the piles of speeches on the equality of human beings do not hide
      the commonplace fact that the seven Frenchmen killed or wounded at the Col de Sakamody
      kindles the indignation of all civilized consciences, whereas the sack of the douars of
      Guergour and of the dechras of Djerah and the massacre of whole populations which had
      merely called forth the Sakamody ambush as a reprisal-all this is of not the slightest
      importance. Terror, counter-terror, violence, counter-violence: that is what observers
      bitterly record when they describe the circle of hate, which is so tenacious and so
      evident in Algeria."

      _rony

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Laraine Fergenson [mailto:lfergens@...]
      Sent: 01 May 2003 06:14
      To: JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [JustPeaceUK] Collective Punishment and Terror


      Ron,
      I remember reading last year after the Passover Massacre at the Park
      Hotel in Netanya that "military grade" explosives had been used, and
      that these, which had probably been smuggled in from Egypt, Iran, or
      Syria, accounted for the very high toll of death and destruction. Have
      you heard something else?
      About Fanon-- how do you think I have distorted his ideas? Doesn't he
      advocate terrorism in order to draw down a repressive violence and so
      create a cycle that eventually leads to a withdrawal by the colonial
      power? What do you think he meant?
      Laraine


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    • Deborah Maccoby
      Dear Rony, Many thanks for this. The last part makes me think of how, after about 100 Palestinians had been shot dead at the outbreak of the intifada, two
      Message 2 of 7 , May 1, 2003
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        Dear Rony,

        Many thanks for this. The last part makes me think of how, after about 100
        Palestinians had been shot dead at the outbreak of the intifada, two Israeli
        soldiers were lynched in revenge and the papers were full of outrage against
        the lynching of two Israeli soldiers, and the deaths of about 100
        Palestinians (including many children) were virtually ignored...the same at
        present with victims of the suicide bombs, whereas the daily killings of
        Palestinians (again incuding many children)are also almost ignored....one is
        state terrorism; the other is revenge killing by people who have no other
        weapon; both are to be condemned, but state terrorism is worse....


        Deborah

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ron Cohen [mailto:rony@...]
        Sent: 01 May 2003 09:24
        To: JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [JustPeaceUK] Collective Punishment and Terror


        1. it is not clear what did they meant by "military grade", let alone to
        draw the conclusion that it was smuggled . it is probably an israeli
        "military grade". haven't you heard about the IDF soldiers from the west
        bank settlements who sold weapons in the west bank? or the military arsenals
        which were raided? though the question of arming a popular revolt is very
        intersting, this is not the point here. see below.

        2. no.
        (from the The Wretched of the Earth)
        "The existence of an armed struggle shows that the people are decided to
        trust to violent methods only. He of whom they have never stopped saying
        that the only language he understands is that of force, decides to give
        utterance by force. In fact, as always, the settler has shown him the way he
        should take if he is to become free. The argument the native chooses has
        been furnished by the settler, and by an ironic turning of the tables it is
        the native who now affirms that the colonialist understands nothing but
        force. The colonial regime owes its legitimacy to force and at no time tries
        to hide this aspect of things. Every statue, whether of Faidherbe or of
        Lyautey, of Bugeaud or of Sergeant Blandan - all these conquistadors perched
        on colonial soil do not cease from proclaiming one and the same thing: "We
        are here by the force of bayonets. . . ."

        "The violence of the colonial regime and the counter-violence of the native
        balance each other and respond to each other in an extraordinary reciprocal
        homogeneity. This reign of violence will be the more terrible in proportion
        to the size of the implantation from the mother country. The development of
        violence among the colonized people will be proportionate to the violence
        exercised by the threatened colonial regime. In the first phase of this
        insurrectional period, the home governments are the slaves of the settlers,
        and these settlers seek to intimidate the natives and their home governments
        at one and the same time. They use the same methods against both of them.
        The assassination of the Mayor of Evian, in its method and motivation, is
        identifiable with the assassination of Ali Boumendjel. For the settlers, the
        alternative is not between Algerie algerienne and Algerie francaise but
        between an independent Algeria and a colonial Algeria, and anything else is
        mere talk or attempts at treason. The settler's logic is implacable and one
        is only staggered by the counter-logic visible in the behavior of the native
        insofar as one has not clearly understood before hand the mechanisms of the
        settler's ideas. From the moment that the native has chosen the methods of
        counter-violence, police reprisals automatically call forth reprisals on the
        side of the nationalists. However, the results are not equivalent, for
        machine-gunning from airplanes and bombardments from the fleet go far beyond
        in horror and magnitude any answer the natives can make. This recurring
        terror de-mystifies once and for all the most estranged members of the
        colonized race. They find out on the spot that all the piles of speeches on
        the equality of human beings do not hide the commonplace fact that the seven
        Frenchmen killed or wounded at the Col de Sakamody kindles the indignation
        of all civilized consciences, whereas the sack of the douars of Guergour and
        of the dechras of Djerah and the massacre of whole populations which had
        merely called forth the Sakamody ambush as a reprisal-all this is of not the
        slightest importance. Terror, counter-terror, violence, counter-violence:
        that is what observers bitterly record when they describe the circle of
        hate, which is so tenacious and so evident in Algeria."

        _rony

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Laraine Fergenson [mailto:lfergens@...]
        Sent: 01 May 2003 06:14
        To: JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [JustPeaceUK] Collective Punishment and Terror


        Ron,
        I remember reading last year after the Passover Massacre at the Park
        Hotel in Netanya that "military grade" explosives had been used, and that
        these, which had probably been smuggled in from Egypt, Iran, or Syria,
        accounted for the very high toll of death and destruction. Have you heard
        something else?
        About Fanon-- how do you think I have distorted his ideas? Doesn't
        he advocate terrorism in order to draw down a repressive violence and so
        create a cycle that eventually leads to a withdrawal by the colonial power?
        What do you think he meant? Laraine


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        JustPeaceUK-unsubscribe@egroups.com

        If you wish to join the group that plan and design our events/activites you
        are more than welcome to join JustPeaceactive@egroups.com (a sub-group for
        those who carry out the actual work).



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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        ---
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        Version: 6.0.473 / Virus Database: 271 - Release Date: 17/04/2003


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        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        those who carry out the actual work).



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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