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FW: A Yiddishe Medina, by Israel Shamir

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  • Deborah Maccoby
    Dear Tony, I ve received an oddly friendly reply from Israel Shamir - I had corresponded with him some time ago but had let it lapse since I had begun to think
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
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      Dear Tony,

      I've received an oddly friendly reply from Israel Shamir - I had
      corresponded with him some time ago but had let it lapse since I had begun
      to think that, impressive as he seemed at first, he was really very
      anti-Israel...he seems delighted I have contacted him again, despite my very
      critical email to him. He now seems to be claiming that he wasn't referring
      to Biblical Judaism but to Rabbinic Judaism, which is the real Judaism and
      arose as a response to the rise of Christianity and is all about vengeance
      in opposition to the Christian message of forgiveness...but then says most
      Jews nowadays aren't really vengeful, as they have been influenced by
      Christianity! I really don't think this nonsense is worth replying to.
      But, as you say, we should expose him and point out how antisemitic he is -
      although actually his last article really spoke for itself.

      Deborah

      .
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Israel Shamir [SMTP:shamir@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 7:37 PM
      > To: Deborah Maccoby
      > Subject: Re: A Yiddishe Medina, by Israel Shamir
      >
      > Dear Deborah,
      > it is a pleasure to read your well informed letters! Dr Yuval (as many
      > modern Israeli historians) considers Judaism as a religion that BEGAN in
      > the
      > 2d century AD, after the demise of its predecessor, Bibllical Judaism, as
      > a
      > response to the rise of Christianity. No doubt, old Biblical Judaism
      > contained elements of both sorts of messianic hopes. That is exactly the
      > fault line between Rabbinic Judaism (vengeful messiah) and Christianity
      > (saving messiah). Actually, your father wrote of Christians being unaware
      > of
      > new, Rabbinic Judaism, as they thought Jews are still the Jews of the days
      > of Christ.
      > Anyway, I do not think many people of Jewish origin understand these
      > things
      > nowadays. We are more influenced by Christianity than we are ready to
      > admit.
      > Majority is rather atheistic. So, one can not fight this fight anymore.
      > Now,
      > we have to fight vengefulness of the American President, that is why i
      > stressed its anti-Christian base.
      > I hope you are all right! By the way, I received the following message,
      > and
      > i wonder, is there a Russel Grossman in the Beeb?
      > Your devoted Shamir
      >
      > > Up until now we have not published this report. ININ is very careful to
      > > ensure that our reports come from reliable sources as we have been burnt
      > > by hoaxes in the best. But this info below was written by Russell
      > Grossman
      > > Head of Internal Communication, BBC, an official source.
      > > The url is at http://forums.prospero.com/id-argument/messages/?msg=6521
      > > We hope it remains on the page.
      > > ININ
      > > -----------------
      > >
      > > Well I posted this up earlier this afternoon but it mysteriously
      > > dissapeared, so here it is again with a pre-post to hopefully help
      > people
      > > see what I'm trying to discuss...
      > > Now this is definately not some kind of pointer to a zionist or any
      > other
      > > form of conspiracy, I have never and hopefully will never subscribe to
      > the
      > > conspiracy theory ethos maintained by those wishing to pursue their own
      > > agendas and prejudices. All I'm doing is passing on some news which I
      > > thought may interest most here and maybe provoke some debate on the
      > trust
      > > and subsequent responsibility of news reporting agencies. I'm sure all
      > of
      > > you will agree that if this, and my gut instinct is yes, is true it asks
      > a
      > > lot of questions of the decisions and peoples involved and of the
      > > potential damage which can be caused in future events.
      > > Again, I will repeat as before, if anyone wants to attack me personally
      > > for posting this then go right ahead, contrary to previous accusations I
      > > do not engage in ill-judged farmyard activities nor hold religious
      > beliefs
      > > of any denomination. For those of you still willing to read the
      > > information below and form your own opinions of what this means with
      > > regards to the power of information within todays society read on...
      > > There's an important point in the power of press, specifically the power
      > > of CNN.
      > > All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors,
      > > and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of
      > you
      > > have been seeing (just as I've been) images from this company. In
      > > Particular, one set of images caught my attention: the Palestinians
      > > celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating celebration sweets
      > and
      > > making funny faces for the camera.
      > > Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
      > > Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply
      > unacceptable
      > > that a super-power of communications as CNN uses images which do not
      > > correspond to the reality in talking about so serious of an issue.
      > > At the BBC here, we have these footages on videotapes recorded in 1991,
      > > with the very same images. But now, think for a moment about the impact
      > of
      > > such images. Your people are hurt, emotionally fragile, and this kind of
      > > broadcast has very high possiblity of causing waves of anger and rage
      > > against the Palestinians.
      > > It's simply irresponsible to show images such as those.
      > > Russell Grossman | Head of Internal Communication | BBC
      > > Third Floor | London Broadcasting House | LONDON W1A 1AA
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Deborah Maccoby" <deborah.maccoby@...>
      > To: "'Israel Shamir'" <shamir@...>
      > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 5:34 PM
      > Subject: RE: A Yiddishe Medina, by Israel Shamir
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Israel Shamir [SMTP:shamir@...]
      > > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:53 AM
      > > To: togethernetwork@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: A Yiddishe Medina, by Israel Shamir
      > >
      > > Dear Shamir,
      > >
      > > I really cannot agree with what you say about the Jewish Messiah "comes
      > to
      > > take revenge". The mediaeval texts you cite come from a people made
      > > desperate by terrible Christian massacres of Jews. Is it really
      > > surprising that some of them ended up by despairing and talking about
      > > revenge against the Gentiles? But there is another and very strong - it
      > > seems to me actually much stronger - side of the Jewish Messianic
      > > tradition - as it is for instance in the great prophecies of universal
      > > peace and justice in Isaiah. Certainly the idea of revenge is always
      > > there in Jewish writings, even in the prophetic writings - but as I said
      > > it would be a miracle if it wasn't there in a people which has been so
      > > persecuted. Of course this idea has to be condemned, despite all the
      > > persecutions - they don't justify it. Nonetheless, it is very wrong of
      > > you to ignore the other and very powerful aspect of the Jewish Messianic
      > > tradition.
      > >
      > > With best wishes,
      > >
      > > Deborah Maccoby
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > A YIDDISHE MEDINA
      > >
      > > By Israel Shamir
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > The great slaughter of innocents is imminent. Very soon, hundreds of
      > > thousands, if not millions of our brothers by Adam and Eve will be
      > > strafed, napalmed, and nuked. Boys and girls, unborn babes and old men
      > > will be brought to the altar of Vengeance and ritually slaughtered by
      > the
      > > High Priest of that God, President George W. Bush. The time is aptly
      > > chosen, and it is hardly a coincidence. The ten days after Rosh
      > Hashanah,
      > > the Jewish New Year, are called the Days of Trepidation, all the way to
      > > the tenth day, Yom HaDin, the Doomsday.
      > >
      > > President Bush called his enterprise, Crusade. This title invokes in our
      > > memory the dour knights of Aquitaine and pious Frankish warriors, who
      > took
      > > Cross and with the name of Our Lady on their lips ventured into a long
      > and
      > > hard pilgrimage. Reality was worse. The Crusade was a Western Jihad and
      > it
      > > caused a lot of bloodshed. The Crusaders were wild and unruly, they
      > sacked
      > > the most beautiful Christian city on earth, Constantinople, and they
      > > drenched in blood the holy ground of Jerusalem. A Crusader chronicler
      > > Radulf of Caen, wrote of his comrades-at-arms, in the Syrian city of
      > > Maarra, 'they impaled babies on spits, grilled and devoured them'. They
      > > were rough folk, and still I would like to save the name of these
      > killers
      > > and cannibals from being besmirched by association with G.W. Bush'
      > > Crusade. They never went after revenge, this most un-Christian, even
      > > anti-Christian feeling.
      > >
      > > The very essence of Christ's Gospel was the rejection of revenge. That
      > was
      > > the great difference between the Church and the Synagogue, these two
      > > sisters born two thousand years ago. This difference is built in, it is
      > > the inherent most prominent feature of the gap between the two faiths:
      > > while Christians are called to pray for their enemies, Jews dream of
      > > vengeance.
      > >
      > > In the intended ideological confusion of last century, Christians are
      > > taught to think that the Jews wait for Messiah who is Christ.
      > Christianity
      > > teaches that He came and will come again, while Judaism considers the
      > > Messiah did not come yet, that is all the difference according to the
      > > teaching of Judeo-Christianity. But reality is vastly different: Christ
      > > came to save, while Messiah comes to take revenge. It was proven by the
      > > brilliant Israeli scholar, Prof. Israel Jacob Yuval of Hebrew University
      > > in his new book, Two Nations In Your Womb[i]. 'Vengeful salvation', as
      > > Yuval called it, was adopted by the European Jews from the old Pharisee
      > > sources and became the prevailing doctrine of the Synagogue.
      > >
      > > When Dr Israel Yuval published his insightful book on theology of
      > > vengeance in Judaism, it was accepted with great enthusiasm by his
      > Israeli
      > > colleagues, but the American Jewish scholars hated it. Dr Ezra Fleischer
      > > wrote a vehement critique, concluding it with the words: 'it would be
      > > better if such a book would not be printed, but if it was printed, it
      > > should be sentenced to oblivion'.
      > >
      > > Prof. Yuval quotes many ancient Jewish texts proving this point. "In the
      > > End of the days (when the Messiah comes) God will destroy, kill and
      > > exterminate all the nations but the sons of Israel", written in the
      > Sefer
      > > Nitzahon Yashan, written by a German Jew in 13th c. A liturgical poet
      > > Klonimus b. Judah had a vision of 'God's hands full of Goys' corpses'.
      > > Even more dreadful dreams of blood and destruction precede the first
      > > attacks on Jews in the end of 11th century. A hundred years before the
      > > Crusaders' onslaught on Jews, R. Simon b. Yitzhak calls on God 'to take
      > > His sword and slaughter the Gentiles'. In order to hasten the
      > destruction
      > > of Gentiles, the sages of Europe adopted curses against Christians and
      > > Christ, and introduced them into liturgy of Passover, Doomsday and even
      > > the daily prayer.
      > >
      > > That is why the decision of President Bush to embark of the campaign of
      > > revenge is not a Christian act. One could argue that the President and
      > his
      > > administration are manipulated by the Jews, who dream of vengeance. Not
      > in
      > > vain, immediately after Wall Street was hit by kamikaze, Bibi Nataniyahu
      > > said 'it is very good for us'[ii]. Not in vain, Ariel Sharon tried to
      > > compare Palestinians to Osama b. Laden. Not in vain, Israelis demand
      > > destruction of Baghdad and Teheran, of Korea and Sudan, of everybody who
      > > is not taking orders from Tel Aviv or Washington.
      > >
      > > A mystic would not call it 'manipulation', but would accept for its face
      > > value the arrival of Messiah of Vengeance in the unlikely figure of G.W.
      > > Bush. The Messiah of Vengeance has actually a different name in
      > Christian
      > > theology. He is called Antichrist.
      > >
      > > The Christian theologians tried to delve in the qualities of this
      > > apocalyptic figure. St John of Damascus prophesied, 'Antichrist will
      > come
      > > to Jews and for Jews, against Christ and Christians'. (John the
      > Damascene
      > > was a friend of Islam and he explained Muslim dogma of eternal Koran as
      > a
      > > form of the Christian teaching of Logos). Church Fathers considered the
      > > Rise of Antichrist as the rise and temporary triumph of Judaism. In 10
      > c.,
      > > St Andrew the Byzantine prophesied, 'The kingdom of Israel will be
      > > restored and it will become the launching pad of Antichrist'.
      > >
      > > This proximity of Israel to Apocalypse is felt by millions of devout
      > > Christians in the United States. They learned that the rise of
      > Antichrist
      > > is the stage on the way to the Second Coming. But, being misled by their
      > > pastors, they draw a paradoxical conclusion and decided to side with
      > > Antichrist. They forgot the words, 'the Son of Man will go as it has
      > been
      > > decreed, but woe to that man' who sides with Antichrist.
      > >
      > > There are two days of the Jewish calendar especially suitable for the
      > > vengeance. One of them is Purim, the day, when according to Esther, the
      > > Jews slaughtered 75,000 Gentiles in Persia. On Purim, Dr Baruch
      > Goldstein
      > > of Brooklyn and Hebron massacred the devout Muslims on the Tomb of
      > > Abraham. On Purim, the ministers of Germany were executed in Nuremberg.
      > On
      > > Purim, two hundred thousand Iraqis were immolated by the US Air Force in
      > > 1991. Purim is auspicious, but Doomsday is even more appropriate for the
      > > vengeance on the grand scale, for the massacre of Messianic proportions.
      > > Soon afterwards, there is the feast of Succoth, when the Messiah could
      > be
      > > revealed.
      > >
      > > Just one minute before we declare Bush as the Antichrist and/or Messiah,
      > > there is one circumstance that calls for investigation. We know now of
      > > some inside trading in insurance and airline shares that imply a
      > previous
      > > knowledge of the forthcoming attack. We know of some advance warnings in
      > > the Jewish-owned investment banking system. I can not imagine a Muslim
      > > terrorist who would try and fit the schedule of the Jewish High
      > Holidays.
      > > Even less I could imagine the apocalyptic Antichrist and his Jewish
      > > Cabbalist advisers buy futures on the stock exchange. It is easier to
      > seek
      > > some bad guys, not necessarily diabolic. Prudence demands we should
      > > account for mundane factors before going to the celestial ones. That was
      > > the preferred method of Father Brown, the hero of G.K. Chesterton:
      > before
      > > applying for a miracle, check material sources.
      > >
      > > II
      > >
      > > Indeed, there is no certainty that President Bush is manipulated by the
      > > Jews. Such presumption is based on idea that there is a non-Jewish
      > United
      > > States, 'America stand-alone', manipulated and subverted by Jews. If it
      > > would be the case, by miraculously excluding the Jews from public
      > > discourse, this original America would be regained. Actually, the recent
      > > post-terror discourse in the US is a hesitant proof to the contrary.
      > >
      > > Many American public figures, Jews and non-Jews alike, called for
      > revenge.
      > > "There is only one way to begin to deal with people like this, and that
      > is
      > > you have to kill some of them even if they are not immediately directly
      > > involved in this thing", said the former Secretary of State Lawrence
      > > Eagleburger[iii], who heads the Jewish organisation for claims to
      > Germany,
      > > at USD 300,000 per annum.
      > >
      > > 'The response to this unimaginable 21st-century Pearl Harbor should be
      > as
      > > simple as it is swift - kill the bastards. A gunshot between the eyes,
      > > blow them to smithereens, poison them if you have to. As for cities or
      > > countries that host these worms, bomb them into basketball courts' said
      > > Steve Dunleavy in New York Post[iv]. In Washington Post, Rich Lowry
      > > proposed, 'If we flatten part of Damascus or Tehran or whatever it
      > takes,
      > > that is part of the solution[v]
      > >
      > > The best quote goes to Ann Coulter, 'This is no time to be precious
      > about
      > > locating the exact individuals directly involved in this particular
      > > terrorist attack.... We should invade their countries, kill their
      > leaders
      > > and convert them to Christianity (!?). We weren't punctilious about
      > > locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We
      > carpet-bombed
      > > German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war'. She
      > > wrote it in New York Daily News[vi], the newspaper of Mortimer
      > Zuckerman,
      > > the current Head of the Presidents' Conference of American Jewish
      > > Organizations.
      > >
      > > This vengeful spirit of the American press is an aberration of the
      > Western
      > > discourse. If you sift the world literature of the Christian and Muslim
      > > lands, you would discover that revenge appears rarely as the main
      > subject
      > > of an important book. Nikolai Gogol wrote a Gothic short story called
      > The
      > > Terrible Revenge, Prosper Mérimée wrote a novelette Colomba on Corsican
      > > vendetta. C'est tout. Brits always considered revenge a very un-English
      > > trend, certainly not cricket. 'Vengeful' is a negative word in every
      > > Christian and Muslim culture. The Jewish culture, au contraire, is
      > > saturated with the idea of vengeance, as it draws straight from the Old
      > > Testament, without the redeeming filter of the New Testament or Koran.
      > >
      > > We Jews know it better than anybody. A brilliant American Jewish
      > > journalist, John Sack noticed it in his Eye for Eye, a chilling book
      > about
      > > horrible revenge exacted by Jews from the German civilians after WWII.
      > > This book tells of tortures, 'extra-judicial killings', mass poison and
      > > other horrors. You are not likely to get this book, as the Jewish
      > > establishment succeeded to suppress it and keep it out of bookshops.
      > >
      > > Not surprisingly, Israel promoted vengeance into its daily policy. Its
      > > attacks on Palestinians were called peulot tagmul, the acts of
      > vengeance.
      > > One of these acts was perpetrated by the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in
      > 14
      > > of October, 1953, when he and his soldiers murdered some sixty peasants,
      > > women and children in the village of Qibya. The invasion of Lebanon in
      > > 1982 with its 20,000 murdered Lebanese and Palestinians, Christians and
      > > Muslims, was an act of revenge for the attempt to assassinate Israeli
      > > ambassador in London. During last intifada, every act of Israeli terror
      > is
      > > called 'retribution' or 'retaliation' by Israelis and by American
      > > Jewish-owned media.
      > >
      > > This Jewish infatuation with vengeance survived the hazardous crossing
      > of
      > > the Atlantic. The American Jews created Hollywood, and Hollywood made
      > > vengeance its main subject. In a way, American cinema is an expression
      > of
      > > the Jewish collective subconscious, and it was the main factor in
      > creation
      > > of the American psyche. From Hollywood, vengefulness flew all over the
      > > earth, and certainly helped to create the world we inhabit. In other
      > > words, there was no need for a conspiracy. Rather immature America could
      > > not withstand the impact of Jewish mentality, and she became a Jewish
      > > State, the big sister of Israel. A grandson of Trier Rabbi, who grew in
      > > the Church, Karl Marx actually prophesied in the 1840s (!) that America
      > > will become a Jewish state, and will embrace the Jewish ideology of
      > greed
      > > and alienation. It explains successes of Jews: it is just natural that
      > in
      > > the Jewish state, Jews succeed more.
      > >
      > > This explanation allows us to answer the question we posted previously,
      > > does America support Israel because of the Jewish lobby or because of
      > the
      > > 'true interest of American corporations'. The answer is, the Jewish
      > lobby
      > > is a superfluous body supportive of Israeli right-wing, while America as
      > a
      > > whole is a grander Jewish state with interests outside the Middle East
      > as
      > > well.
      > >
      > > This presumption explains away a lot of queries. It explains incredible
      > 99
      > > per cent vote for support of Israel. It explains endless Holocaust
      > > museums, Holocaust studies and Holocaust films. It explains centrality
      > of
      > > Jews in American life, as now America views world events from a
      > > traditional Jewish position, 'whether it is good for Jews?'
      > >
      > > It explains the US walkout at Durban. JW Bush did not mind to quarrel
      > with
      > > Europe and Japan and went back on Kyoto treaty. He did not give a damn
      > to
      > > annoy Russia and China with his unilateral decision to drop Strategic
      > Arms
      > > Treaty. But here he heard His Master's Voice. This haughty rejection of
      > > Africa and Asia, this insulting dismissal of the Afro-American
      > community,
      > > this rejection of the great cause of struggle against racism was an
      > > additional proof that the US became a sister state to Israel.
      > >
      > > Recently, President Vladimir Putin tried to justify his onslaught on
      > > Chechens in an interview to Newsweek[vii]. He said, the Chechen leaders
      > > 'publicly called for the extermination of Jews', relegating critics of
      > his
      > > war to the ranks of anti-Semites. Now, Chechnya has no Jews, and Chechen
      > > leaders' opinion on Jews would be irrelevant, if anti-Semitism would
      > > still preserve its original meaning, i.e. anti-Jewish prejudice or
      > racism.
      > > In this form, it does not exist anymore, as we proved elsewhere[viii],
      > but
      > > the word received a new meaning. It became an equivalent of
      > > anti-Americanism in the days of McCarthy, or as anti-Sovietism in
      > > Brezhnev's Soviet Union.
      > >
      > > Whoever rejects new American paradigm, in America or elsewhere, is an
      > > anti-Semite by definition. That is why good persons of Jewish origin,
      > > whether Noam Chomsky or Woody Allen, St Paul or Karl Marx are called
      > > 'anti-Semites'. They are usually rejected by the Jewish community, but
      > > their names are used to defend the structure they attacked.
      > >
      > > An offence to the Jewish community is not considered a form of racism,
      > as
      > > ordinary racism is tolerated with great ease, especially if it is
      > directed
      > > towards Arabs (new enemies of Jews) or Blacks (old enemies of Jews). It
      > is
      > > treated as a 'lese majesté' (in the years of Jewish ascendancy in the
      > > Soviet Union (1917 - 1937), people were shot for an anti-Jewish remark).
      > > Manfred Stricker of Strasbourg campaigned to name the local university
      > > after Dr Schweitzer, while the Jewish community preferred the name of a
      > > Jewish scholar with a loose connection to the city. As the result,
      > Manfred
      > > Stricker was sentenced to six months of jail.
      > >
      > > While speaking to students in Harvard, Emory and other Ivy League
      > > universities, I noticed that they do not know the name of Arnold
      > Toynbee.
      > > The greatest British philosopher of history in 20th century made an
      > error:
      > > he spoke of the tragedy of Palestinians. He also mentioned the African
      > > slavery as a tragedy on a par with the Jewish holocaust. As a result,
      > he
      > > was erased and disappeared from American conscience. This totality of
      > > control over public discourse explains obedience of American (and
      > > European) intellectuals. For an intellectual, it is better to be called
      > a
      > > paedophile, but not an anti-Semite.
      > >
      > > In the Jewish American state, the Jews form its 'Church', its
      > ideological
      > > establishment. I feel about this 'church' as Voltaire, who said,
      > "Destroy
      > > the infamy" of the Catholic Church he was born into.
      > >
      > > In the Jewish American state, the Jews are the most successful group of
      > > society. This sudden rise to glory and riches should not be a cause for
      > > vertigo and self adulation. Other way around. Following the line of
      > > thought of this great American philosopher, Immanuel Wallerstein, I
      > shall
      > > say: material success in our days is a sign of moral failure. 'Success'
      > > and riches is not a sign of God's benevolence. Anyway, not of God who
      > > blessed the poor. A man who succeeds in the robbers' gang, fails in the
      > > eyes of God. Our world with its starving millions and over-prosperous
      > > minority is immoral and anti-Christian, as anti-Christian as the
      > 'Crusade'
      > > of President Bush.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Israel Shamir is an Israeli writer and journalist living in Jaffa. Your
      > > responses and requests to subscribe/unsubscribe can be sent to
      > > info@... <mailto:info@...>.
      > >
      > > Your financial contributions are needed and welcomed! Send it via Paypal
      > > system, see the details
      > <https://www.paypal.com/refer/pal=shamir@...>
      > > or by mail to P.O.Box 23714 Tel Aviv 61236. Bank details provided by
      > > request.
      > >
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > [i] Publisher: Alma/Am Oved, Tel Aviv, 2000, ISBN 965-13-1428-1
      > >
      > > [ii] NY Times, 12.9.01
      > >
      > > [iii] CNN, 9/11/01
      > >
      > > [iv] 9/12/01
      > >
      > > [v] --Rich Lowry, National Review editor, to Howard Kurtz (Washington
      > > Post,
      > > 9/13/01)
      > >
      > > [vi] 9/12/01
      > >
      > > [vii] 2.7.01
      > >
      > > [viii] The Third Dove
      > >
      >
      >
      > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
      > it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
      > the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
      > this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
      > BBC, unless specifically stated.
      >
      >


      This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received
      it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
      the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of
      this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the
      BBC, unless specifically stated.
    • Ron Cohen
      don t bother with it. he was exposed long ago. http://www.nigelparry.com/issues/shamir/nigelletter.html http://www.abunimah.org/features/010416shamir.html ...
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        don't bother with it. he was exposed long ago.

        http://www.nigelparry.com/issues/shamir/nigelletter.html

        http://www.abunimah.org/features/010416shamir.html



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Deborah Maccoby [mailto:deborah.maccoby@...]
        Sent: 01 October 2001 16:11
        To: 'JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com'
        Subject: [JustPeaceUK] FW: A Yiddishe Medina, by Israel Shamir


        Dear Tony,

        I've received an oddly friendly reply from Israel Shamir - I had
        corresponded with him some time ago but had let it lapse since I had begun
        to think that, impressive as he seemed at first, he was really very
        anti-Israel...he seems delighted I have contacted him again, despite my very
        critical email to him. He now seems to be claiming that he wasn't referring
        to Biblical Judaism but to Rabbinic Judaism, which is the real Judaism and
        arose as a response to the rise of Christianity and is all about vengeance
        in opposition to the Christian message of forgiveness...but then says most
        Jews nowadays aren't really vengeful, as they have been influenced by
        Christianity! I really don't think this nonsense is worth replying to.
        But, as you say, we should expose him and point out how antisemitic he is -
        although actually his last article really spoke for itself.

        Deborah


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      • Tony Klug
        Message text written by INTERNET:JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com ... But who knows about it? Apparently none of us - or at least not most of us. Can we send a
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 2, 2001
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          Message text written by INTERNET:JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com
          >don't bother with it. he was exposed long ago.<

          But who knows about it? Apparently none of us - or at least not most of us.
          Can we send a message to the network, whoever that might be, that
          distributes his trash?

          May I remind people again please to append their name at the foot of their
          message, to save us from having to guess who they are!

          Tony
        • Abe Hayeem
          Tony - re Israel Shamir I am actually on his mailing list as I had originally written to him about some of his earlier pieces which I thought were quite good.
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 3, 2001
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            Tony - re Israel Shamir
            I am actually on his mailing list as I had originally written to him about
            some of his earlier pieces which I thought were quite good.
            I will not send them around if people don't want to read them but I thought
            the "Yiddishe Medina" would be a good way to show his extreme views and the
            way he expresses them. I think the "mystique" is part of the persona he is
            trying to create. He definitely exists, as he was ostracised at tthe Junity
            Conference in Chicago earlier this year, and he wrote a piece about that. I
            will write to him telling him what people here think, but I would like to
            see what else he is writing and what he is upto.

            Abe

            > From: Tony Klug <tonyklug@...>
            > Reply-To: JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 21:31:59 -0400
            > To: "INTERNET:JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com" <JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: RE: [JustPeaceUK] FW: A Yiddishe Medina, by Israel Shamir
            >
            > Message text written by INTERNET:JustPeaceUK@yahoogroups.com
            >> don't bother with it. he was exposed long ago.<
            >
            > But who knows about it? Apparently none of us - or at least not most of us.
            > Can we send a message to the network, whoever that might be, that
            > distributes his trash?
            >
            > May I remind people again please to append their name at the foot of their
            > message, to save us from having to guess who they are!
            >
            > Tony
            >
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