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Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Digest Number 25

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  • robert brown
    Yeah, I knew that Mark was the Family ghost. I read all 9 books (some 3-4 times) and The Pliocene Companion. But, I m not sure Mark REALLY did die at the end
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 25, 2000
      Yeah, I knew that Mark was the Family ghost. I read all 9 books (some 3-4
      times) and The Pliocene Companion. But, I'm not sure Mark REALLY did die at
      the end of Magnificant. Still not sure whether Felice died at the end of
      The Adversary either. She was placed in the Room without doors, not killed.

      Has anybody figured out the signifigance of the Great Carbuncle? And why
      Jack used a bigger replica of it to fight in the rebellion? I could never
      quite figure it out. Does it just amplify farspeech?

      Rob



      >From: Julian-May-discuss@egroups.com
      >Reply-To: Julian-May-discuss@egroups.com
      >To: Julian-May-discuss@egroups.com
      >Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Digest Number 25
      >Date: 25 Aug 2000 11:11:42 -0000
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >There are 2 messages in this issue.
      >
      >Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. Re: Digest Number 24
      > From: "Mischa Welsh" <Mischa.Welsh@...>
      > 2. Re: Digest Number 23
      > From: "Mark E" <msmark_98@...>
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 1
      > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:11:48 +0100
      > From: "Mischa Welsh" <Mischa.Welsh@...>
      >Subject: Re: Digest Number 24
      >
      >Watch out, This Mail contains a *******SPOILER******
      >
      >Rob, dude.... The Family ghost is Marc!
      >
      >Mish
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 2
      > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:53:13 GMT
      > From: "Mark E" <msmark_98@...>
      >Subject: Re: Digest Number 23
      >
      >Not to be a spoiler or anything...but...
      >
      >SPOILER SEPARATION SPACE
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >"The Family Ghost"? It's Marc. After helping the Duat Mind arrive at
      >Unity, he came back to the Milky Way as Atoning Unifex.
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      >

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    • Mark E
      Marc may have been feeling the growing effects of time and mortality at the end of Magnificat, but I also don t think he s croaked yet. I m interested to know
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 25, 2000
        Marc may have been feeling the growing effects of time and mortality at the
        end of Magnificat, but I also don't think he's croaked yet.

        I'm interested to know whose DNA he used as a template to give the other
        Lylmik working, fertile human bodies. If he'd used his own, you can be sure
        he'd stick around long enough to see what the kids were like. ;)
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      • Leticia Anderson
        But, I m not ... Maybe that s when he REALLY became a ghost.... Still not sure whether ... But her and Culluket were transformed into non-humanoid entities.
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 29, 2000
          But, I'm not
          > sure Mark REALLY did die at
          > the end of Magnificant.

          Maybe that's when he REALLY became a ghost....

          Still not sure whether
          > Felice died at the end of
          > The Adversary either. She was placed in the Room
          > without doors, not killed.

          But her and Culluket were transformed into
          non-humanoid entities. Could they remain consciousness
          as human beings trapped for millennia inside a ruby
          with no bodies and no way out? I think that in some
          ways some malevolent consciousness must have remained
          within the Duality, but I am doubtful that it was in
          essence Felice or Culluket. Unless it was all just a
          very tricky act of creativity which she pulled off
          with none the wiser (except perhaps Marc...).
          Something, some 'spirit' must have lingered in the
          ruby, of that I am sure. But I don't really believe
          that Felice or Cul could ever be freed from that
          prison.

          > Has anybody figured out the signifigance of the
          > Great Carbuncle? And why
          > Jack used a bigger replica of it to fight in the
          > rebellion? I could never
          > quite figure it out. Does it just amplify
          > farspeech?
          >
          > Rob

          I don't know....the parallel is too strange to
          dismiss, but quite definitely the Carbuncle is not the
          Duality. They are different shapes and they are also
          different gems. But, one can only assume that Marc
          constructed the Carbuncle based on his experience with
          the Duality.
          There were some intersting theories about this on the
          Milieu FAQ site, and one that I found quite intriguing
          was that the Carbuncle was the remains of Marc's
          corporeal form after his transfiguration into a
          Lylmik. I dismissed this immediately to start with but
          it isn't sounding so crazy now.
          We have dicussed this before - how did Marc dispose of
          his physical form, and when was it? But we haven't
          come up with a satisfactory conclusion yet. I'll go
          back and read the old posts and try and pick up that
          thread.
          If Marc did transcend his body by transforming it into
          a crystalline jewel, then this poses interesting
          questions for the duality. For if his mind survived
          that transformation that Felice/Cul's could have just
          as well. <shudder> imagine crazy Felice/Cul Family
          Ghost. Maybe they were Fury (??!!LOL!!??).
          But, why then would the stone, the metamorphosised
          remnants of an operant's physical form, still contain
          powerful metapsychic traits? The Exiles were terrified
          of what might be done with Felice/Cul. Rogi never
          really got scared of what the Carbuncle could do but I
          think he should have been!
          I think it likely that the Carbuncle would have worked
          as a metapsychic amplifier, not just for farsensing,
          but for all metafaculties. Obviously the device was
          not difficult to activate either, for Rogi did it
          without thinking on more than one occasion.
          The conclusion that Ti-Jean comes to is that it is a
          Lylmik artifact, an artificial diamond with an
          infitesimal flaw in the center that could have been a
          machine of some kind (i'll chase up the exact qte when
          I get a chance)
          We know that Marc could create a diamond with his mind
          even before he was AU (cf DIAMOND MASK and the
          Madeleine seduction scene). It could not possibly be
          impossible then that he made the Carbuncle, installing
          within it some kind of matrix for which he took the
          original template from the Duality ruby.
          I suspect that there was something more to the
          Carbuncle than an amplifier though. Sure, it would
          have helped those who used it for their various tasks
          e.g. helped Rogi expand his ability to contact AU,
          expanded Denis' range so the Milieu could be summoned,
          and broadcast Jack and Diamond's plea for unity. But,
          I think all these things could have accomplished with
          the unaugmented mind (interesting, isn't it, that the
          creator of CE should present a metapsychic amplifier
          to his uncle six million years later though - seems to
          have accomplished more on Orb than he did in the
          Orcas!).
          That is the thing - obviously the Carbuncle was an
          amplifier, and although a key ring is niftier and
          lighter on the excess baggage bills for the full suit
          CE rig, that isn't that special! Certainly doesn't
          merit Jack putting its replica on Scurra during the
          Rebellion, as Rob pointed out. I think he, Diamond and
          Paul together would have had the range necessary to
          broadcast that plea unaugmented. It had to do more
          than just amplify, or perhaps the key here is that it
          amplified in a special way.
          I think perhaps that the workings of the Carbuncle
          enhanced Unity. It would have to do with the
          crystalline structure of the stone I guess, as Jack
          couldn't be expected the replicate the mysterious
          Lylmik artifact that was at the heart (or could he...)
          So, I think that the Carbuncle had the ability to
          emphasise metapsychic power chanelled through it as
          the purest form of MP power which is Unity - complete
          comprehension of those you are in unity with,
          benevolent mind-to-mind living. So, rather than
          receiving a burst of (e.g.) augmented coercion to join
          in the Unity, you would feel the Unity itself lapping
          at you. And, evidently most people sucumbed and joined
          with it when they felt this.
          I think of it as rather like the reverse effect of a
          prism on light. When light passes through a prism it
          fragments into separate bands of coloured lights
          according to their differing wavelength. Perhaps when
          metapsychic power passes through the Carbuncle, or a
          replica, then it coheses (I don't think that's a word
          but bear with me) back into a single band. Maybe that
          is why there are five separate metafaculties =
          different 'wavelengths' of the same basic property -
          Metapsychic Power. And, when the five bands of MP
          Power become one, we have Unity.
          Which is why the Carbuncle helps Denis so much at Mt
          Washington (remember that the Ghost urges Rogi to make
          Denis to use it right then) and the Replica does so
          much for Jack n Diamond.

          Well, that's a pretty loose theory but I can't see
          that it hurts to speculate wildly - as we have
          mourned, there will be no more books forthcoming from
          the magic pen to dispute what we do or don't say!

          Leticia








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        • Leticia Anderson
          ... I don t remember that the Lylmik were _fertile_ as such??? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 29, 2000
            > I'm interested to know whose DNA he used as a
            > template to give the other
            > Lylmik working, fertile human bodies. If he'd used
            > his own, you can be sure
            > he'd stick around long enough to see what the kids
            > were like. ;)

            I don't remember that the Lylmik were _fertile_ as such???

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          • Ian J Greely
            ... In magnificat hadn t two of them partaken in creating another lylmik? Can t remember which two but they discuss it when AU mentions that their bodies are
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 29, 2000
              On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:15:29 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

              >
              >
              >> I'm interested to know whose DNA he used as a
              >> template to give the other
              >> Lylmik working, fertile human bodies. If he'd used
              >> his own, you can be sure
              >> he'd stick around long enough to see what the kids
              >> were like. ;)
              >
              >I don't remember that the Lylmik were _fertile_ as such???
              >
              In magnificat hadn't two of them partaken in creating another lylmik?

              Can't remember which two but they discuss it when AU mentions that
              their bodies are fully functional with all that this entails...

              One or two other comments on things others have said recently.

              Magnificat = Marks course through life. (or similar)

              I rather think that the magnificat is the human metaconcert that
              defeats the rebellion. If you recall Jacks last words to Mark are "No
              you too must magnify"

              It's an ever present theme within the books. When Denis manages to
              regain control of himself he has a soliloquize where he talks about
              the whole remaining intact despite the fallibleness of the individual
              human.

              I rather like the sense of spirituality that May imparts in the
              novels, though it might not be her own view on it...

              regards,
              Ian
            • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
              ... That s an interesting theory, but I don t think there was any remains of Marc s physical form once he transfigured. After all, when water turns into steam,
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 30, 2000
                >There were some intersting theories about this on the
                >Milieu FAQ site, and one that I found quite intriguing
                >was that the Carbuncle was the remains of Marc's
                >corporeal form after his transfiguration into a
                >Lylmik. I dismissed this immediately to start with but
                >it isn't sounding so crazy now.

                That's an interesting theory, but I don't think there was any remains of
                Marc's physical form once he transfigured. After all, when water turns into
                steam, there's not much left of the water (it's a crude analogy but the
                first one that came to mind!).

                Anyway, I would like to say that if Marc's body did become a jewel, it
                wouldn't be red but blue. Each of the metafunctions has it's own 'colour' -
                creativity is green, PK is gold, farsensing is violet, redaction is
                scarlet/red and coercion, the main talent of Marc, is blue. If this theory
                is true then it would perhaps explain why the Duality is a ruby, because
                Culleket was a powerful (red) Redactor, and it became the dominant colour.

                Hmm..sidetracking for a minute, if Marc is 'blue' and Liz is 'red' it's
                probably more than coincidence that the first thing they see after they
                d-jump to the Duat galaxy is a newly created blue/red double
                star....symbolising themselves?

                >I think it likely that the Carbuncle would have worked
                >as a metapsychic amplifier, not just for farsensing,
                >but for all metafaculties. Obviously the device was
                >not difficult to activate either, for Rogi did it
                >without thinking on more than one occasion.
                >The conclusion that Ti-Jean comes to is that it is a
                >Lylmik artifact, an artificial diamond with an
                >infitesimal flaw in the center that could have been a
                >machine of some kind (i'll chase up the exact qte when
                >I get a chance)

                It seems logical to me that the Carbuncle was an artificially created
                metapsychic amplifier, and I like your theory Leda about how it could
                possibly cohese the five powers into one, which is Unity. Hmm. Does this
                mean that because Jack and Diamond were both High Fives, it was easier for
                them to comprehend what Unity *was*, and thus communicate this to others in
                'Magnificat'.

                - Nicolette
              • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
                ... I can t find a part that relates to two Lylmik creating another one, but AU told them everything in your bodies works and he was certainly encouraging
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 30, 2000
                  >>I don't remember that the Lylmik were _fertile_ as such???
                  >>
                  >In magnificat hadn't two of them partaken in creating another lylmik?
                  >
                  >Can't remember which two but they discuss it when AU mentions that
                  >their bodies are fully functional with all that this entails...

                  I can't find a part that relates to two Lylmik creating another one, but AU
                  told them "everything in your bodies works" and he was certainly encouraging
                  them to stay in their bodies so this could imply that he wanted them to know
                  how it felt to be human in every way possible, even to the point of having
                  children.

                  - Nicolette
                • Mark E
                  ... Yup, they sure were. Check out the quotes from their dogwalking visit. Ensoulment is ensoulment... and I m a much better creator than Jack. The bodies
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 30, 2000
                    >I'm interested to know whose DNA he used as a
                    >template to give the other Lylmik working, fertile human bodies. If he'd
                    >used
                    >his own, you can be sure he'd stick around long enough to see what the kids
                    >were like. ;)

                    ::I don't remember that the Lylmik were _fertile_ as such???::

                    Yup, they sure were. Check out the quotes from their dogwalking visit.
                    "Ensoulment is ensoulment..." and "I'm a much better creator than Jack."
                    The bodies Marc/AU gave the other Lylmik worked fine in *all* details.
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                  • Ian J Greely
                    ... Page 195-196 Comprehension was also dawning in Asymptotic Essences almond eyes. She held her puppy close. but is such a thing possible? Ensoulment is
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 30, 2000
                      On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:02:59 +1200 (NZST), you wrote:

                      >>In magnificat hadn't two of them partaken in creating another lylmik?
                      >>
                      >>Can't remember which two but they discuss it when AU mentions that
                      >>their bodies are fully functional with all that this entails...
                      >
                      >I can't find a part that relates to two Lylmik creating another one, but AU
                      >told them "everything in your bodies works" and he was certainly encouraging
                      >them to stay in their bodies so this could imply that he wanted them to know
                      >how it felt to be human in every way possible, even to the point of having
                      >children.
                      >
                      >- Nicolette
                      >


                      Page 195-196

                      "Comprehension was also dawning in Asymptotic Essences almond eyes.
                      She held her puppy close. 'but is such a thing possible?'

                      'Ensoulment is ensoulment' Unifex obsreved airily.
                      'Trend and Concordance did manage it once before, way back in
                      Fa-Time'"

                      Not sure what anyone else thinks is being discussed. I'm pretty sure I
                      understand what is being said. Especially in context as it being a
                      fall back should the rebellion succeed. (In humor I would say)

                      regards,
                      Ian
                      >
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                    • leda_au@yahoo.com
                      Hello everyone, we have all been very quiet lately! Just wanted to let everyone know I have started updating the list if links from this site, pls go and have
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 25, 2000
                        Hello everyone, we have all been very quiet lately!
                        Just wanted to let everyone know I have started updating the list if
                        links from this site, pls go and have a look and add any others you
                        know, or feel free to add new folders and start reference databases
                        such as the 'Pliocene' folder I opened.
                        See you all soon, I hope....

                        leda ;-)
                      • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
                        Hi Leda, Work has been getting in the way of (net) life lately but hopefully this will change soon (practices a scowl for the boss the next time he dumps a
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 28, 2000
                          Hi Leda,

                          Work has been getting in the way of (net) life lately but hopefully this
                          will change soon (practices a scowl for the boss the next time he dumps a
                          load of work on my desk, grrr).

                          Has your copy of the 'Pliocene Companion' arrived yet? If so, what do you
                          think of it?

                          I like the updated links, and I have a few that I'll be adding on soon (a
                          couple have to be seen to be believed!).

                          I recently waded through Milton's 'Paradise Lost' - amazing! Now I know what
                          those comparisons between Marc and Milton mean....brrr.

                          High Thoughts

                          - Nicolette :-)


                          >Hello everyone, we have all been very quiet lately!
                          >Just wanted to let everyone know I have started updating the list if
                          >links from this site, pls go and have a look and add any others you
                          >know, or feel free to add new folders and start reference databases
                          >such as the 'Pliocene' folder I opened.
                          >See you all soon, I hope....
                          >
                          >leda ;-)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                          >
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