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Exiles in Book 3

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  • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
    ... It didn t bother me that Marc & the Exiles didn t show up until book 3 - in my first reading of the series I had been getting used to the different power
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 30, 2001
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      On Wed, 29 August 2001, butterfly_27684@... wrote:

      >
      > --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Makr <khashka@e...> wrote:
      > > I agree having Marc and the Exiles show up in book three is
      > incredibly
      > > sloppy. There should have at least been more mention that they
      > existed
      > > and some foreshadowing of their eventual importance.
      > >
      > > Makr.
      >
      > Having read Milieu before I read Exiles I was in anticipation of the
      > Rebes showing up having the knowledge of their undeniable presence.
      > It was exciting to ake every small clue and try to pice together
      > their destiny before they began interacting with the rest of the
      > exiles.
      > Yours Kym...

      It didn't bother me that Marc & the Exiles didn't show up until book 3 - in my first reading of the series I had been getting used to the different power structures and action going on in the first two books, and noting how much of the Exile world was being influenced/changed by the human telepaths Aiken, Felice & Elizabeth. Then suddenly it's revealed that there's a colony of powerful rebel telepaths who could do practically anything they pleased, and the power structure changed all over again. I practically raced through the third book and I felt annoyed at the fact that I would have to give the fourth book back to the library <g>. So it was off to the second hand bookshop...

      High Thoughts
      - Nicolette
    • Ndvv KSC
      ... I must admit that it felt a little overwhelming when all of a sudden the Rebels *appeared* and had such an important role after barely being mentioned
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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        > > I agree having Marc and the Exiles show up in book three is
        > incredibly
        > > sloppy. There should have at least been more mention that they
        > existed
        > > and some foreshadowing of their eventual importance

        I must admit that it felt a little overwhelming when all of a sudden the
        Rebels *appeared* and had such an important role after barely being
        mentioned before. But then again, the story told in the first three books
        was 'enough' as it was, there was no need to bring more characters into it
        that early on. Plus of course the Rebels didn't have a reason to concern
        themselves with the Tanu and Firvulag until the children started their
        excursion to the Gate site - bringing them in earlier would have been a bit
        too confusing and would have rushed the storyline too much. There were
        already plenty of characters and enough of a storyline to keep the reader
        happy, any more would have been too much.

        Incidentally, the Rebel group DOES get referred to quite early on (I think
        it was in the first book, from what I remember it's something Creyn tells
        Elizabeth?), where there is a mention of an embarassing exception to the
        usual routine with which the time travellers are received. I missed it the
        first time round, maybe because I was too involved with the main (at the
        time) storyline..

        Andrea
      • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
        ... Hi Andrea, The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in Many Coloured Land - it referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings of
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 2, 2001
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          On Sun, 02 September 2001, "Ndvv KSC" wrote:

          >
          > I must admit that it felt a little overwhelming when all of a sudden the
          > Rebels *appeared* and had such an important role after barely being
          > mentioned before. But then again, the story told in the first three books
          > was 'enough' as it was, there was no need to bring more characters into it
          > that early on. Plus of course the Rebels didn't have a reason to concern
          > themselves with the Tanu and Firvulag until the children started their
          > excursion to the Gate site - bringing them in earlier would have been a bit
          > too confusing and would have rushed the storyline too much. There were
          > already plenty of characters and enough of a storyline to keep the reader
          > happy, any more would have been too much.
          >
          > Incidentally, the Rebel group DOES get referred to quite early on (I think
          > it was in the first book, from what I remember it's something Creyn tells
          > Elizabeth?), where there is a mention of an embarassing exception to the
          > usual routine with which the time travellers are received. I missed it the
          > first time round, maybe because I was too involved with the main (at the
          > time) storyline..
          >
          > Andrea

          Hi Andrea,

          The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in 'Many Coloured Land' - it referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings of disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e. they weren't on the Rebels side).

          High Thoughts
          - Nicolette :-)
        • bob
          ... referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings of disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e. they weren t
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 4, 2001
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            <snip>

            >
            > The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in 'Many Coloured Land' - it
            referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings of
            disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e. they
            weren't on the Rebels side).
            >
            > High Thoughts
            > - Nicolette :-)

            <snip>


            The Rebels are mentioned, somewhat obliquely, even earlier than that.
            Elizabeth on her journey from castle Gateway does a planetary scan and picks
            up Madame (who quickly withdraws) then hears something on the other side of
            the world, but her recuperating mind perceives it as an 'echo'.

            Don't you just love that we all pick up different details? *grin*

            Bob
          • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
            Hi Bob, ... Just to be picky , I think that the scan Liz did was after the bit about Richard, not before. Anyway, I wonder what would have happened if
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 4, 2001
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              Hi Bob,

              > > The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in 'Many Coloured Land' - it
              > referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings of
              > disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e. they
              > weren't on the Rebels side).
              > >
              > > High Thoughts
              > > - Nicolette :-)
              >
              >
              > The Rebels are mentioned, somewhat obliquely, even earlier than that.
              > Elizabeth on her journey from castle Gateway does a planetary scan and picks
              > up Madame (who quickly withdraws) then hears something on the other side of
              > the world, but her recuperating mind perceives it as an 'echo'.
              >
              > Don't you just love that we all pick up different details? *grin*
              >
              > Bob

              Just to be picky <grin>, I think that the scan Liz did was after the bit about Richard, not before. Anyway, I wonder what would have happened if the Rebels 'listened' to Liz's scan and replied back....

              High Thoughts
              - Nicolette :-)
            • Makr
              ... Who s to say they didn t listen? Probably, they would not have answered back and all would be as it was. But..... They could have raided Europe and taken
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 4, 2001
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                >Anyway, I wonder what would have happened if the Rebels 'listened' to
                >Liz's scan and replied back....

                Who's to say they didn't listen?
                Probably, they would not have answered back and all would be as it was.

                But.....
                They could have raided Europe and taken some human gold torcs (and Liz) ,
                raised them to operancy and started the Mental Man project. But I think
                it would be less a Julian May book than a Poppy Z. Brite book :)

                Why didn't they? With as many sub-operants as there were in the Many
                Coloured Land and with the techniques to raise people to operancy (a la
                Brede), why didn't Marc try to recreate the Mental Man project? (I must
                have forgotten something here.) It'd make a good genesis story for the
                Lylmik!

                Makr.
                that Mental Man thing always makes my skin crawl

                http://users2.ev1.net/~khashka

                *****************************************

                I can see too many mouths open
                Too many eyes closed ears closed
                Not enough minds open

                - Sinead O'Connor, "Just Like U Said It Would B"
              • bob
                Again forgive my fuzzy thinking and memory, but didn t the mental man project require Remillard Paramounts - which is why Maddy s genes were so important to
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 5, 2001
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                  Again forgive my fuzzy thinking and memory, but didn't the mental man project require Remillard Paramounts - which is why Maddy's genes were so important to the project in Magnificat and Cloud's and Hagen's in Exile? No bodiless gene, no immoratality gene, just a bunch of mortal, normal powered, floating brains cluttering up the place - eugh yuck!

                  Then of course there was the Milieu technology that was simply unavailable given the Tanu/Firvulag society's sophistication? Hell just destroying one factory ended the supply of Torcs, so what chance was there of creating mass maturation chambers?

                  On a side issue, isn't it surprising that in a group discussing JM, only one or two of us place her as our favourite author in our top tens?

                  Critical, bloodyminded, lot ain't we! *grin*

                  Bob

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Makr
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 7:05 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Exiles in Book 3

                  >Anyway, I wonder what would have happened if the Rebels 'listened' to
                  >Liz's scan and replied back....

                  Who's to say they didn't listen?
                  Probably, they would not have answered back and all would be as it was.

                  But.....
                  They could have raided Europe and taken some human gold torcs (and Liz) ,
                  raised them to operancy and started the Mental Man project. But I think
                  it would be less a Julian May book than a Poppy Z. Brite book :)

                  Why didn't they? With as many sub-operants as there were in the Many
                  Coloured Land and with the techniques to raise people to operancy (a la
                  Brede), why didn't Marc try to recreate the Mental Man project? (I must
                  have forgotten something here.) It'd make a good genesis story for the
                  Lylmik!

                  Makr.
                  that Mental Man thing always makes my skin crawl

                  http://users2.ev1.net/~khashka

                  *****************************************

                  I can see too many mouths open
                  Too many eyes closed ears closed
                  Not enough minds open

                  - Sinead O'Connor, "Just Like U Said It Would B"



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                • Leticia Anderson
                  ... require Remillard Paramounts - which is why Maddy s genes were so important to the project in Magnificat and Cloud s and Hagen s in Exile? No bodiless
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 5, 2001
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                    Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Exiles in Book 3
                    bob wrote:
                    >Again forgive my fuzzy thinking and memory, but didn't the mental man project require Remillard Paramounts - which is why Maddy's genes were >so important to the project in Magnificat and Cloud's and Hagen's in Exile? No bodiless gene, no immoratality gene, just a bunch of mortal, normal >powered, floating brains cluttering up the place - eugh yuck!

                    You are right there Bob the key to the Mental Man scheme was the paramount faculty. Even when they were desparate to get enough wattage together to fight the Evil Empire just before the Rebellion, Marc and his cronies discarded the non-paramount embryos - even those which were masterclass or latent paramounts. Part of this way have been the desire for the best but the main problem is that lesser minds would be unable to sustain their minds without a body. Even Marc and his friends were suprised when Jack first started making matter from photons of light and dust in the air and poo, obviously this was a high level trick. Not to mention the simpler feats of having strong enough mindpower to speak to all people mentally, support the body with PK....etc etc etc.

                    Leda
                  • ndvv23@ntlworld.com
                    ... it referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings of disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e. they weren t on
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 6, 2001
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                      > Hi Andrea,
                      >
                      > The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in 'Many Coloured Land' -
                      it referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings
                      of disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e.
                      they weren't on the Rebels side).
                      >
                      > High Thoughts
                      > - Nicolette :-)

                      No, that's not what this thread was about - it was referring to the
                      fact that, up until book 3 of the Exile books, there was apparently
                      no mention of the Rebels who had burst through Castle Gateway and
                      were hiding away in America. It wasn't about the Rebels "in the
                      Future/Past" (i.e. during the Rebellion), but about them being in the
                      Pliocene and May barely mentioning them while telling the first chunk
                      of the time traveller story...

                      (At least I think so...)

                      Andrea
                    • bob
                      There were certainly hints (Didn t Thagdal refer to an unmitigated disaster when questioned about travellers?) but as you say nothing difinitive. For all of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 6, 2001
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                        There were certainly hints (Didn't Thagdal refer to an 'unmitigated disaster' when questioned about travellers?) but as you say nothing difinitive. For all of that though I have to say I agree with Leda on this one and wouldn't change the way the story unfolded.
                         
                        Just assimilating the sheer scale and detail of the many coloured land and what happened to the 'Greenies' makes for epic and convoluted reading. To throw in the rebels would of been just awkward and to me distracting. I know I would of been waiting for them to show up and therefore not getting quite so much into the story and characters.
                         
                        Besides, personally I love the fact that just as I got to understand the workings of the Many Coloured Land, JM suddenly through in a wild card and I had a whole new set of character dynamics to deal with. I hate it, absolutely hate it when storylines are obvious. The sheer surprise of the rebel's existance gave the last two books a momentum that I seriously don't think they would of had, if we knew old baddass Abaddon himself was going to show up.
                         
                        Bob
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:32 PM
                        Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: Exiles in Book 3

                        > Hi Andrea,
                        >
                        > The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in 'Many Coloured Land' -
                        it referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings
                        of disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e.
                        they weren't on the Rebels side).
                        >
                        > High Thoughts
                        > - Nicolette :-)

                        No, that's not what this thread was about - it was referring to the
                        fact that, up until book 3 of the Exile books, there was apparently
                        no mention of the Rebels who had burst through Castle Gateway and
                        were hiding away in America. It wasn't about the Rebels "in the
                        Future/Past" (i.e. during the Rebellion), but about them being in the
                        Pliocene and May barely mentioning them while telling the first chunk
                        of the time traveller story...

                        (At least I think so...)

                        Andrea



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                        Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                      • Aerospace Age Warrior
                        I agree. Bring in the Rebels in Book 3 was perfect timing. Finding out that Felice didn t cause the great catastrophe on her own was bril! Also something
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 6, 2001
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                          I agree.  Bring in the Rebels in Book "3" was perfect timing.  Finding out that Felice didn't cause the great catastrophe on her own was bril!
                           
                          Also something to chew over. Books "1" and "2" were at the publisher's discression as to if they were going to be one volume or two.
                           
                          If it had been just one.. then coming in at book "2" makes sense.
                           
                          If you get my drift.
                           
                          Mike in Troy NY 
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: bob [mailto:pallol@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:52 AM
                          To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: Exiles in Book 3

                          There were certainly hints (Didn't Thagdal refer to an 'unmitigated disaster' when questioned about travellers?) but as you say nothing difinitive. For all of that though I have to say I agree with Leda on this one and wouldn't change the way the story unfolded.
                           
                          Just assimilating the sheer scale and detail of the many coloured land and what happened to the 'Greenies' makes for epic and convoluted reading. To throw in the rebels would of been just awkward and to me distracting. I know I would of been waiting for them to show up and therefore not getting quite so much into the story and characters.
                           
                          Besides, personally I love the fact that just as I got to understand the workings of the Many Coloured Land, JM suddenly through in a wild card and I had a whole new set of character dynamics to deal with. I hate it, absolutely hate it when storylines are obvious. The sheer surprise of the rebel's existance gave the last two books a momentum that I seriously don't think they would of had, if we knew old baddass Abaddon himself was going to show up.
                           
                          Bob
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:32 PM
                          Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: Exiles in Book 3

                          > Hi Andrea,
                          >
                          > The Rebellion itself was mentioned early in 'Many Coloured Land' -
                          it referred to briefly as an event that the older military siblings
                          of disgraced pilot Richard Voorhees had performed honourably in (i.e.
                          they weren't on the Rebels side).
                          >
                          > High Thoughts
                          > - Nicolette :-)

                          No, that's not what this thread was about - it was referring to the
                          fact that, up until book 3 of the Exile books, there was apparently
                          no mention of the Rebels who had burst through Castle Gateway and
                          were hiding away in America. It wasn't about the Rebels "in the
                          Future/Past" (i.e. during the Rebellion), but about them being in the
                          Pliocene and May barely mentioning them while telling the first chunk
                          of the time traveller story...

                          (At least I think so...)

                          Andrea



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                          Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        • Leticia Anderson
                          Mike wrote: I agree. Bring in the Rebels in Book 3 was perfect timing. Finding out that Felice didn t cause the great catastrophe on her own was bril! Also
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 6, 2001
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                            Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: Exiles in Book 3
                            Mike wrote:
                            I agree.  Bring in the Rebels in Book "3" was perfect timing.  Finding out that Felice didn't cause the great catastrophe on her own was bril!

                            Also something to chew over. Books "1" and "2" were at the publisher's discression as to if they were going to be one volume or two.

                            If it had been just one.. then coming in at book "2" makes sense.

                            If you get my drift.

                            That's interesting then, I was just going on gut feeling when I was saying if you sort of think about the four books as two sets of two it makes more sense. Man, that would have been a fat book. But I do like fat books! It is just they get so creased and it is so inconvenient to shove a really big book into a nice handbag!

                            Leda
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