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Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: bloopers?

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  • Oliver Mundy
    It is not precisely a blooper , perhaps, but I have often been struck by inconsistencies between the characters and incidents of the Milieu Trilogy as they
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 28, 2011
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      It is not precisely a 'blooper', perhaps, but I have often been struck by inconsistencies between the characters and incidents of the Milieu Trilogy as they are prefigured in the Saga of the Exiles and as they appear in the Trilogy intself.  For example, somewhere in the Saga we are told (by Elizabeth, I think) that the active phase of the Rebellion lasted several months, whereas it appears from 'Magnificat' that the fighting consisted of just two gigantic but isolated incidents. Again, the one glimpse we are given in the earlier series of Uncle Rogi - the 'mad old man holding longhaired cat' seen among the mind-pictures generated by the traumatised Marc after the Rio Genil cataclysm - seems inadequate even as a six-word summary; Rogi in 'Intervention' and the Trilogy is often sozzled and sometimes wrong-headed to the point of unreason, but I do not see how anyone setting out to characterise him in one word could choose to call him 'mad'. Surely his role and personality must have developed much farther after 'The Adversary' was written.
       
              I wish we knew more about the temporal relationship between the evolution of the two series. We know from the interviews in the 'Pliocene Companion' that the Milieu series was conceived first, and clearly *some* of it was already in writing, very much as it now stands, long before the Saga was completed; thus a passage from 'Jack the Bodiless' describing Marc's first sight of his brother is quoted almost verbatim in 'The Adversary'. Likewise, the icy and storm-racked world of Denali was clearly in existence in JM's mind almost from the beginning of 'The Many-Coloured Land'. By contrast, the Lylmik are a mere shadow in the saga, with not the slightest foretaste of the humorous, beer-loving and highly articulate philosophers who emerge in 'Intervention'. And how soon did she know how the Rebellion would proceed and how it would end? Was it perhaps the difficulty of conceiving that ending and making it worthy of its place that delayed 'Magnificat' so long? I fear JM will never tell us now, so that we can do no more than speculate.
       
              Oliver Mundy.
    • michelle_rose3
      Ollie, you have a point, but only insofar as ANY work of fiction undergoes considerable mutation throughout its development. JM admitted that the Milieu series
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 28, 2011
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        Ollie, you have a point, but only insofar as ANY work of fiction undergoes considerable mutation throughout its development. JM admitted that the Milieu series was conceived and developed long before she began work on the Saga, so we must assume that minor details underwent a certain amount of modification. Yeah, I remember that line about 'the mad old man holding a long-haired cat', but remember that Marc had very little respect for Rogi throughout his adolescence and in fact treated him with thinly-veiled contempt for much of his young adulthood. (For that matter, he treated almost EVERYONE with contempt until the final confrontation at Okanagon.)

        Speaking as a published author, it's pretty freakin' difficult to cover every single point in just one book, let alone the nine books that comprise the Saga/Milieu pantheon. (I'm not counting the Pliocene Guide. She didn't write that. It has its share of errors, too.)

        We're kind of chasing our tails here, looking for flaws and inconsistencies. Given the enormous amount of work involved in the nine books, we should feel grateful that JM went to the trouble of keeping 99.99999% of it reasonably consistent.

        Ask yourself if you could do the same, especially considering that, for the first six or eight years, JM worked with the equivalent of a glorified typewriter. "The Many-Colored Land" was published in 1981. I ask y'all to consider what the tech was like at that time and realize that she was working from hand-written notes, for the most part.

        Instead, let's just enjoy the darn thing, 'kay?

        PS: How 'bout Woody Harrelson as Sunny Jim? C'mon, he's perfect for the role!

        --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Oliver Mundy" <oliver.mundy@...> wrote:
        >
        > It is not precisely a 'blooper', perhaps, but I have often been struck by inconsistencies between the characters and incidents of the Milieu Trilogy as they are prefigured in the Saga of the Exiles and as they appear in the Trilogy intself. For example, somewhere in the Saga we are told (by Elizabeth, I think) that the active phase of the Rebellion lasted several months, whereas it appears from 'Magnificat' that the fighting consisted of just two gigantic but isolated incidents. Again, the one glimpse we are given in the earlier series of Uncle Rogi - the 'mad old man holding longhaired cat' seen among the mind-pictures generated by the traumatised Marc after the Rio Genil cataclysm - seems inadequate even as a six-word summary; Rogi in 'Intervention' and the Trilogy is often sozzled and sometimes wrong-headed to the point of unreason, but I do not see how anyone setting out to characterise him in one word could choose to call him 'mad'. Surely his role and personality must have developed much farther after 'The Adversary' was written.
        >
        > I wish we knew more about the temporal relationship between the evolution of the two series. We know from the interviews in the 'Pliocene Companion' that the Milieu series was conceived first, and clearly *some* of it was already in writing, very much as it now stands, long before the Saga was completed; thus a passage from 'Jack the Bodiless' describing Marc's first sight of his brother is quoted almost verbatim in 'The Adversary'. Likewise, the icy and storm-racked world of Denali was clearly in existence in JM's mind almost from the beginning of 'The Many-Coloured Land'. By contrast, the Lylmik are a mere shadow in the saga, with not the slightest foretaste of the humorous, beer-loving and highly articulate philosophers who emerge in 'Intervention'. And how soon did she know how the Rebellion would proceed and how it would end? Was it perhaps the difficulty of conceiving that ending and making it worthy of its place that delayed 'Magnificat' so long? I fear JM will never tell us now, so that we can do no more than speculate.
        >
        > Oliver Mundy.
        >
      • Oliver Mundy
        [R]emember that Marc had very little respect for Rogi throughout his adolescence and in fact treated him with thinly-veiled contempt for much of his young
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 29, 2011
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          "[R]emember that Marc had very little respect for Rogi throughout his adolescence and in fact treated him with thinly-veiled contempt for much of his young adulthood . . . " (Michelle Rose)
           
                  And of course Marc's half-shattered mind is very much preoccupied with childhood memories at this point. I had not thought of this; thank you, Michelle.
           
                  There was no intention of sniping at JM. I have loved the Saga of the Exiles for nearly thirty years - if the Milieu books lag behind, it is only because I have not known them so long - and I re-read them almost annually. If the author sometimes leaves the reader space to do his or her own thinking, that to my mind is not a fault in her writing but precisely one of its delightful qualities. Questions like 'How were over a hundred motor vehicles, two cerebroenergetic rigs weighing three tons each, a regeneration-tank and a mass of astronomical equipment - not to mention a hundred or more people - all crammed into the Guderian gazebo and translated in one stroke?' fall into the same class as, for example, 'What is the moral distinction between Marc's and Jack's actions in the final scenes of the Rebellion?' They are not things to pick at; they are simply things to puzzle over.
           
                  Oliver Mundy.
        • Frank Chase
          I don t think it was all in one shot... It s been a while since I read Magnificat, buuuut I seem to remember that it did take an unspecified while, annnnd the
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 29, 2011
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            I don't think it was all in one shot... It's been a while since I read Magnificat, buuuut I seem to remember that it did take an unspecified while, annnnd the did have AU supervising the whole evolution- I'm sure you can imagine the schtupendous brain-power Marc the elder could apply to tetrising CE's & SUV's into the gazebo proper. I would also imagine that the Aubrige's (?sp) basement would have been expanded to milieu lab standards... If the Family Ghost was as adept at manipulating other sentients as Uncle Rogi, a nudge here, a tweak there, a ideosyncratic regulation requiring this or that, a inexplicable mistake converting the CAD drawings to blueprints... well you know. There was plenty of time to prepare.

            --- On Wed, 6/29/11, Oliver Mundy <oliver.mundy@...> wrote:

            From: Oliver Mundy <oliver.mundy@...>
            Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: bloopers?
            To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 9:19 AM

             

            "[R]emember that Marc had very little respect for Rogi throughout his adolescence and in fact treated him with thinly-veiled contempt for much of his young adulthood . . . " (Michelle Rose)
             
                    And of course Marc's half-shattered mind is very much preoccupied with childhood memories at this point. I had not thought of this; thank you, Michelle.
             
                    There was no intention of sniping at JM. I have loved the Saga of the Exiles for nearly thirty years - if the Milieu books lag behind, it is only because I have not known them so long - and I re-read them almost annually. If the author sometimes leaves the reader space to do his or her own thinking, that to my mind is not a fault in her writing but precisely one of its delightful qualities. Questions like 'How were over a hundred motor vehicles, two cerebroenergetic rigs weighing three tons each, a regeneration-tank and a mass of astronomical equipment - not to mention a hundred or more people - all crammed into the Guderian gazebo and translated in one stroke?' fall into the same class as, for example, 'What is the moral distinction between Marc's and Jack's actions in the final scenes of the Rebellion?' They are not things to pick at; they are simply things to puzzle over.
             
                    Oliver Mundy.
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