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What did Dennis know?

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  • paul.magrath
    Hey all, has anyone ever wondered if Dennis had an inkling of his fury persona.A few points make me wonder if it is possible that he couldnt not have
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 5 6:24 PM
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      Hey all,
      has anyone ever wondered if Dennis had an inkling of his fury persona.A few points make me wonder if it is possible that he couldnt not have considered the possibility.
      1)He never accepted magnetship.Is it because he knew that the mental assay would expose an alter ego?

      2)He knew the similarities between the way hydra killed its victims and the way Victor did and having been Victors sibling and the person closest to him in his declining years...........well!!

      3)(and most compelling to me)Dennis is acknowledged as one of the most brilliant minds in the universe and with all that intelligence surely you must consider the possibility that it might be you,even to convince yourself that its not.He would also have been aware of the inability of offspring to coerce the parent and may have been able to work on a solution to that in order to effect a cure.

      BTW,I've been a member here before as alexmannion but my messages kept bouncing,whatever that means so Im looking foreward to conversing(arguing)with you all again.

      Paul.
      Dublin.
    • Frank Chase
      Good Question! 1) Definite Maybe- The corollary to that question is: did the Family Ghost (AU) know about Fury, and what did he do or not do about it? I m
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 5 8:15 PM
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        Good Question!

        1) Definite Maybe- The corollary to that question is: did the 'Family Ghost' (AU) know about Fury, and what did he do or not do about it? I'm pretty sure that the Lylmik and most assuredly The Lylmik would have the metapsychic acuity and faculties developed over the last six million years to detect such a thing- note references to the Poltroyan vampires and the similarity to Hydra.

        2&3) Are related in mechanism. Yes, Denis is/was one of the preeminent minds of the milieu, however comma, it is impossible to make a man see what he dosen't want to see. I work for an Individual who is acknowleged to be very smart- and wealthy. The number two person in the company is robbing him blind and he wont see it- because he refuses to. Denis is no different. He knows Victor's history, and has witnessed the aftermath of the Hydra killings- there is no way he can not notice the similarities.

        --- On Sat, 9/5/09, paul.magrath <paul.magrath@...> wrote:

        From: paul.magrath <paul.magrath@...>
        Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] What did Dennis know?
        To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 6:24 PM

         

        Hey all,
        has anyone ever wondered if Dennis had an inkling of his fury persona.A few points make me wonder if it is possible that he couldnt not have considered the possibility.
        1)He never accepted magnetship.Is it because he knew that the mental assay would expose an alter ego?

        2)He knew the similarities between the way hydra killed its victims and the way Victor did and having been Victors sibling and the person closest to him in his declining years....... ....well! !

        3)(and most compelling to me)Dennis is acknowledged as one of the most brilliant minds in the universe and with all that intelligence surely you must consider the possibility that it might be you,even to convince yourself that its not.He would also have been aware of the inability of offspring to coerce the parent and may have been able to work on a solution to that in order to effect a cure.

        BTW,I've been a member here before as alexmannion but my messages kept bouncing,whatever that means so Im looking foreward to conversing(arguing) with you all again.

        Paul.
        Dublin.

      • mish1701
        Hi (its been a while) as to Q1: The Family Ghost (AU) clearly knew, because he was Paul *spoiler, I know... but hey, we re all friends here* and had been
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 6 9:14 AM
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          Hi (its been a while)

          as to Q1: The Family Ghost (AU) clearly knew, because he was Paul *spoiler, I know... but hey, we're all friends here* and had been through the whole thing to its nasty climax. He just kept quiet because if he had interfered he wouldn't have existed

          Wibbly-wobbly Timey-wimey stuff, isn't it. *

          Mish

          *Dr.Who reference

          ______________________________________________________________________________________

          Hey all,
          >
          > has anyone ever wondered if Dennis had an inkling of his fury persona.A few points make me wonder if it is possible that he couldnt not have considered the possibility.
          >
          > 1)He never accepted magnetship.Is it because he knew that the mental assay would expose an alter ego?
          >
          >
          >
          > 2)He knew the similarities between the way hydra killed its victims and the way Victor did and having been Victors sibling and the person closest to him in his declining years....... ....well! !
          >
          >
          >
          > 3)(and most compelling to me)Dennis is acknowledged as one of the most brilliant minds in the universe and with all that intelligence surely you must consider the possibility that it might be you,even to convince yourself that its not.He would also have been aware of the inability of offspring to coerce the parent and may have been able to work on a solution to that in order to effect a cure.
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW,I've been a member here before as alexmannion but my messages kept bouncing,whatever that means so Im looking foreward to conversing(arguing) with you all again.
          >
          >
          >
          > Paul.
          >
          > Dublin.
          >
        • Tauni Sandy
          Timey wimey stuff aside (loved that!) AU was definitely Marc, not Paul. Paul was Marc s father, I believe. regards - Tauni
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 6 10:42 AM
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            Timey wimey stuff aside (loved that!) AU was definitely Marc, not Paul.
            Paul was Marc's father, I believe.

            regards -
            Tauni

            mish1701 wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi (its been a while)
            >
            > as to Q1: The Family Ghost (AU) clearly knew, because he was Paul
            > *spoiler, I know... but hey, we're all friends here* and had been
            > through the whole thing to its nasty climax. He just kept quiet
            > because if he had interfered he wouldn't have existed
            >
            > Wibbly-wobbly Timey-wimey stuff, isn't it. *
            >
            > Mish
            >
            > *Dr.Who reference
            >
          • mish1701
            Oh bloody hell, Mac, not Paul (of course) - I ve been reading Paul of Dune, and have Paul on the brain. Mish (Paul of Dune is rubbish, much like all the Dune
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 7 5:28 AM
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              Oh bloody hell, Mac, not Paul (of course) - I've been reading Paul of Dune, and have 'Paul' on the brain.

              Mish

              (Paul of Dune is rubbish, much like all the Dune prequel/sequels written by Brian Herbert, but I can't - STOP - READING - THEM aaarrgh)


              --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Tauni Sandy <ishmaelian@...> wrote:
              >
              > Timey wimey stuff aside (loved that!) AU was definitely Marc, not Paul.
              > Paul was Marc's father, I believe.
              >
              > regards -
              > Tauni
              >
              > mish1701 wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi (its been a while)
              > >
              > > as to Q1: The Family Ghost (AU) clearly knew, because he was Paul
              > > *spoiler, I know... but hey, we're all friends here* and had been
              > > through the whole thing to its nasty climax. He just kept quiet
              > > because if he had interfered he wouldn't have existed
              > >
              > > Wibbly-wobbly Timey-wimey stuff, isn't it. *
              > >
              > > Mish
              > >
              > > *Dr.Who reference
              > >
              >
            • John Wolfe
              ... If anything, Dennis suspected, but didn t know for sure. He took the oath to off Fury along with the others, remember. If he knew for sure, he would have
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 7 6:49 AM
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                mish1701 wrote:
                > Oh bloody hell, Mac, not Paul (of course) - I've been reading Paul of Dune, and have 'Paul' on the brain.
                >
                > Mish
                >
                > (Paul of Dune is rubbish, much like all the Dune prequel/sequels written by Brian Herbert, but I can't - STOP - READING - THEM aaarrgh)
                >
                >
                > --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Tauni Sandy <ishmaelian@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Timey wimey stuff aside (loved that!) AU was definitely Marc, not Paul.
                >> Paul was Marc's father, I believe.
                >>
                >> regards -
                >> Tauni
                >>
                >> mish1701 wrote:
                >>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Hi (its been a while)
                >>>
                >>> as to Q1: The Family Ghost (AU) clearly knew, because he was Paul
                >>> *spoiler, I know... but hey, we're all friends here* and had been
                >>> through the whole thing to its nasty climax. He just kept quiet
                >>> because if he had interfered he wouldn't have existed
                >>>
                >>> Wibbly-wobbly Timey-wimey stuff, isn't it. *
                >>>
                >>> Mish
                >>>
                >>> *Dr.Who reference
                >>>
                >>>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                If anything, Dennis suspected, but didn't know for sure. He took the
                oath to off Fury along with the others, remember. If he knew for sure,
                he would have committed suicide, which otherwise would have been
                unthinkable due to his Catholic upbringing.

                By the way, I'm currently reading JM's "Ironcrown" series. It's not as
                easy a read as her other stuff, believe me!
              • Rosemary
                I think Dennis must have had an inkling, particularly with respect to your first point, below. I also think Lucille must have had her suspicions. Some of the
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 7 8:16 AM
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                  I think Dennis must have had an inkling, particularly with respect to your
                  first point, below. I also think Lucille must have had her suspicions.

                  Some of the characters in her books show an extreme form of denial, so maybe
                  #3 would not have been such a given. For example, when Marc is in the orb,
                  he sees the constellation of Hydra but it only makes him think of stars and
                  not the family problems he is blocking out.

                  I am pretty sure at some point, Atoning Unifex said he did not know the
                  identity of Fury. If he was telling the truth, which I doubt, I guess he
                  would have found out upon Rogi's recording it in the memoir.

                  -RM
                • paul.magrath
                  Hi Rosemary, Good point about Lucille,I had never actually considered wheather she had any suspicions!!! As far as Marc is concerned,I think I do remember AU
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 10 6:29 PM
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                    Hi Rosemary,
                    Good point about Lucille,I had never actually considered wheather she had any suspicions!!!
                    As far as Marc is concerned,I think I do remember AU mentioning about not knowing the id of Fury but I dont believe he was lying.Marc was so overwhelmingly self centered that he probably never gave much thought to the family's problems(except for sheltering Teresa during her pregnancy)
                    He seems an altogether much nicer guy during the Pliocene era,albeit a paramount grand master nice guy with powers to fry your brain if you piss him off.
                    Paul,
                    Dublin.
                    --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Rosemary <rosemary@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think Dennis must have had an inkling, particularly with respect to your
                    > first point, below. I also think Lucille must have had her suspicions.
                    >
                    > Some of the characters in her books show an extreme form of denial, so maybe
                    > #3 would not have been such a given. For example, when Marc is in the orb,
                    > he sees the constellation of Hydra but it only makes him think of stars and
                    > not the family problems he is blocking out.
                    >
                    > I am pretty sure at some point, Atoning Unifex said he did not know the
                    > identity of Fury. If he was telling the truth, which I doubt, I guess he
                    > would have found out upon Rogi's recording it in the memoir.
                    >
                    > -RM
                    >
                  • James Kendrick
                    If you need a place to vent about PoD, stop by my forum: www.jacurutu.com   It s good to hate with like minded people.   ... From: John Wolfe
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 2, 2009
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                      If you need a place to vent about PoD, stop by my forum: www.jacurutu.com
                       
                      It's good to hate with like minded people.
                       
                      :)

                      --- On Mon, 9/7/09, John Wolfe <jmw2@...> wrote:

                      From: John Wolfe <jmw2@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: What did Dennis know?
                      To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 9:49 AM

                       
                      mish1701 wrote:
                      > Oh bloody hell, Mac, not Paul (of course) - I've been reading Paul of Dune, and have 'Paul' on the brain.
                      >
                      > Mish
                      >
                      > (Paul of Dune is rubbish, much like all the Dune prequel/sequels written by Brian Herbert, but I can't - STOP - READING - THEM aaarrgh)
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Julian-May-discuss@ yahoogroups. com, Tauni Sandy <ishmaelian@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Timey wimey stuff aside (loved that!) AU was definitely Marc, not Paul.
                      >> Paul was Marc's father, I believe.
                      >>
                      >> regards -
                      >> Tauni
                      >>
                      >> mish1701 wrote:
                      >>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Hi (its been a while)
                      >>>
                      >>> as to Q1: The Family Ghost (AU) clearly knew, because he was Paul
                      >>> *spoiler, I know... but hey, we're all friends here* and had been
                      >>> through the whole thing to its nasty climax. He just kept quiet
                      >>> because if he had interfered he wouldn't have existed
                      >>>
                      >>> Wibbly-wobbly Timey-wimey stuff, isn't it. *
                      >>>
                      >>> Mish
                      >>>
                      >>> *Dr.Who reference
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      If anything, Dennis suspected, but didn't know for sure. He took the
                      oath to off Fury along with the others, remember. If he knew for sure,
                      he would have committed suicide, which otherwise would have been
                      unthinkable due to his Catholic upbringing.

                      By the way, I'm currently reading JM's "Ironcrown" series. It's not as
                      easy a read as her other stuff, believe me!

                    • Caliban
                      ... Unifex had no reason to lie to Rogi at that stage of the game, so I am taking it as read that Unifex did not know who Fury was, until it was revealed in by
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 6, 2010
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                        --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Rosemary <rosemary@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I am pretty sure at some point, Atoning Unifex said he did not know the identity of Fury. If he was telling the truth, which I doubt, I guess he would have found out upon Rogi's recording it in the memoir.
                        >
                        > -RM

                        Unifex had no reason to lie to Rogi at that stage of the game, so I am taking it as read that Unifex did not know who Fury was, until it was revealed in by Rogi in the writing of his memoirs.

                        At the time that the Dynasty was planning the Christmas Surprise to redact Denis, Marc was out of touch with the family, pursuing his own CE research and laying the foundations of Mental Man and the Metapsychic Rebellion. He seems to have believed the family's story that Denis had died in his sleep.

                        Atoning Unifex and, following his injunction, the other four members of the Lylmik supervisory quincunx, was not interested in preventing the crimes of Hydra or of Fury. Although Unifex did occasionally confront Fury within the mental latices, he seems not to have known who Fury's host persona was.

                        Did Denis know? I do not think so, at least not consciously, or else I feel he would have gone to his Jesuit mentors for counsel. I think subconsciously, the awareness was there, which manifested as his aversion to allowing others into his mind, declining to accept office as a Magnate of the Concilium, and so on.

                        Further, he may have been trying to grapple with the possibility when he felt compelled to write "Criminal Insanity in the Metapsychic Mind", which would seem to refer to Victor, but is also a great big clue to the reader.
                      • Padraig Timmins
                        And one thing that simply does not make sense is AU s confirming to Fury that Fury sat outside AU s prescience. Now I can believe that AU could and would
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 6, 2010
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                          And one thing that simply does not make sense is AU's confirming to Fury that Fury sat outside AU's prescience.  Now I can believe that AU could and would willingly lie to Fury.  Besides Julian May doesn't do time paradoxes, so there is no way Fury could have won.

                          Cheers


                          Padraig

                          On 6 July 2010 19:11, Caliban <daniel.davison23@...> wrote:
                           



                          --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Rosemary <rosemary@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I am pretty sure at some point, Atoning Unifex said he did not know the identity of Fury. If he was telling the truth, which I doubt, I guess he would have found out upon Rogi's recording it in the memoir.
                          >
                          > -RM

                          Unifex had no reason to lie to Rogi at that stage of the game, so I am taking it as read that Unifex did not know who Fury was, until it was revealed in by Rogi in the writing of his memoirs.

                          At the time that the Dynasty was planning the Christmas Surprise to redact Denis, Marc was out of touch with the family, pursuing his own CE research and laying the foundations of Mental Man and the Metapsychic Rebellion. He seems to have believed the family's story that Denis had died in his sleep.

                          Atoning Unifex and, following his injunction, the other four members of the Lylmik supervisory quincunx, was not interested in preventing the crimes of Hydra or of Fury. Although Unifex did occasionally confront Fury within the mental latices, he seems not to have known who Fury's host persona was.

                          Did Denis know? I do not think so, at least not consciously, or else I feel he would have gone to his Jesuit mentors for counsel. I think subconsciously, the awareness was there, which manifested as his aversion to allowing others into his mind, declining to accept office as a Magnate of the Concilium, and so on.

                          Further, he may have been trying to grapple with the possibility when he felt compelled to write "Criminal Insanity in the Metapsychic Mind", which would seem to refer to Victor, but is also a great big clue to the reader.


                        • maakull
                          Hi! I think Marc as Atoning Unifex may have know. I believe AU helped save Dorothea from the Hydra attack and as stated by an earlier response, after 6 million
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 6, 2011
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                            Hi! I think Marc as Atoning Unifex may have know. I believe AU helped save Dorothea from the Hydra attack and as stated by an earlier response, after 6 million years, I'm quite sure he was vast in his mind powers and could have figured out who they all were. PLUS, after his sister Madeleine sabotaged Marc's Mental Man project, which I think he figured out, wouldn't he as AU be watching for it at the very least, to see how she accomplished it all and then see she was also in cahoots with grandfather Denis and her cousins? But if she had not sabotaged it, Marc would have been sucessful and maybe never had his finale encouter with Jon, negating any reason to flee to the Plicone which in turn may have altered the entire course of the Unity within the Galaxy and none of it would ever have happened. SO in the end AU could only stand by and watch and let it play it as it always was supposed to then, now and to come! WHEW!!!

                            --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Rosemary <rosemary@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I think Dennis must have had an inkling, particularly with respect to your
                            > first point, below. I also think Lucille must have had her suspicions.
                            >
                            > Some of the characters in her books show an extreme form of denial, so maybe
                            > #3 would not have been such a given. For example, when Marc is in the orb,
                            > he sees the constellation of Hydra but it only makes him think of stars and
                            > not the family problems he is blocking out.
                            >
                            > I am pretty sure at some point, Atoning Unifex said he did not know the
                            > identity of Fury. If he was telling the truth, which I doubt, I guess he
                            > would have found out upon Rogi's recording it in the memoir.
                            >
                            > -RM
                            >
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