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Re: Felice and the Many-in-All

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  • Michelle Rose
    My dear Oliver: A most cogent analysis and one with which I quite agree. The two-in-one is undoubtedly Brede and Elizabeth. Additionally, it is quite
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 13, 2008
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      My dear Oliver:
      A most cogent analysis and one with which I quite agree. The
      'two-in-one' is undoubtedly Brede and Elizabeth. Additionally, it is
      quite unreasonable to expect, as you said, that the Children of the
      Rebels would display anything resembling the altruism ethic that was
      imparted to their parents.

      'So much further out'. Interesting. I'd missed that reference.
      It DOES make one wonder. Lylmik, perhaps? We know that they existed
      in the Pliocene Galaxy, Marc simply never found them, partly because
      their sun did not register the same spectral signature it did in the
      time of the Milieu. Curious. And curiously compelling. Ah well, just
      another reason to re-read the series. You can imagine my dismay.
      Michelle

      --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Oliver
      Mundy" <oliver.mundy@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you, Michelle, for your comments.
      >
      > In the passage in 'The Golden Torc', we find Felice
      appealing to three potential sources of strength: 'the two-in-One',
      who are now 'oddly separate' and so unavailable (clearly Elizabeth
      and Brede); 'the many-in-All so much further out' who had helped her
      before, but who now refuse their aid and 'try to show her other
      ways'; and a new focus from the west, 'so bright, so early-rising',
      which does reinforce her final blast. (This sounds like Marc, and
      probably - I would agree - Marc in isolation rather than as part of
      any metaconcert, since the curious description [dawn coming from the
      *West*?] prefigures the attribute 'star of morning' which is applied
      to him personally later on.) This does leave room, as you suggest,
      for identifying the many-in-All with the amateur metaconcert of the
      second-generation Ocalans. But is the altruism and non-violence
      which is implicit in the behaviour of the many-in-All, really in
      character for these young Rebels? Most of those whom we meet
      afterwards seem quite capable of (as Kuhal puts it later in the
      conversation which you have quoted) letting the water into the ants'
      nest, just to watch the fun; perhaps Cloud might hold back for
      reasons of conscience and humanity, but can you imagine Hagen, for
      example, or Vaughn Jarrow, or even the rational but decidely chilly
      Elaby Gathen, doing so? This is the consideration which makes me
      continue feel that something of a higher and in every sense remoter
      nature ('so much further out') must be involved.
      >
      > Well, as you say, we can do no more than speculate - and be
      grateful to JM, mere 'entertainer' though she professes to be, for
      giving us so much to speculate about.
      >
      > Oliver Mundy.
      >
    • AbyssAngyl@aol.com
      Hi All, Although Marc did search for the Lylmik- he never found them. They had not come into being ... yet. I suspect as it was suggested by Marc (I am THE
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 14, 2008
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        Hi All,
         
        Although Marc did search for the Lylmik- he never found them. They had not come into being ... yet. I suspect as it was suggested by Marc (I am THE Lylmik) Atoning Unifex that the Lylmik are the evolved decendants of the Duat galaxy. He hinted strongly in several places that this was the case.
         



      • Angel
        I think it s very clear, overall in Jack The Bodyless . And Uncle Rogi, Tell Marc: You Lylmik bastard!.... (or something simmilar several times! :)) ... had
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 14, 2008
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          I think it's very clear, overall in "Jack The Bodyless".

          And Uncle Rogi, Tell Marc: "You Lylmik bastard!...." (or something
          simmilar several times! :))


          --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, AbyssAngyl@... wrote:
          >
          > Hi All,
          >
          > Although Marc did search for the Lylmik- he never found them. They
          had not
          > come into being ... yet. I suspect as it was suggested by Marc (I
          am THE
          > Lylmik) Atoning Unifex that the Lylmik are the evolved decendants of
          the Duat
          > galaxy. He hinted strongly in several places that this was the case.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new
          fashion blog,
          > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
          > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
          >
        • Padraig Timmins
          I would agree that the two in one is Brede and Elizabeth. I don t recall the specifics so can t comment on the altruism of them, but don t see recall a
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 15, 2008
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            I would agree that the two in one is Brede and Elizabeth.  I don't recall the specifics so can't comment on the 'altruism' of them, but don't see recall a reason why the many in all can't be the rebel kids, and it could be the Firvulag too, who also possessed limited skill in meta-concerts, even if they were reluctant to use them before Sharn and Ayfa took over.  And there is NO doubt that it is Marc who helped Felce with the final blast of Gibraltar.  I am sure he even admits to it, and Elizabeth is sure too.

             

            As for the Lylmik as a possible explanation for the many-in-all, this is a TOTAL non-starter.  The Lylmik did not exists in the Pliocene Galaxy.  There is nothing to suggest they do, and there are specific statement by Atoning Unifix himself to say they didn't!

             

            At the start of Diamond Mask, Atoning Unifix tells Rogi the following: 

                 ...

                 When the Duat work was done, Elizabeth was weary and ready to

            pass on. She begged me to follow her into the peace and light of

            the Cosmic All ... but I could not.

                 Instead, I felt compelled to return here. Alone, cut off from every

            mind that had loved me and from the consoling Unity I had known in

            Duat, I undertook what I judged was my true penance: to assist the

            maturation of our own Galactic Mind.

                 Through years that seemed without end I guided one promising

            planet after another, cajoling civilization from barbarism, altruism

            from savagery. Of course I could not truly coerce the developing

            races of the Milky Way. I only assisted the inevitable complexification

            of the World Mind that accompanies life's evolution.

                 I made many ghastly mistakes.

                 Can you conceive of the doubts that assailed me, Rogi, the fear

            that I might have succumbed to a hubris even more immense than

            that which originally obsessed me? No ... I see that you can't

            understand. Never mind, mon oncle. Only believe me. It was a

            terrible time. Le bon dieu is as silent and invisible to the likes of

            me as he is to any other material being. I could not help but ask

            myself if I was committing a fresh sin of pride in thinking that my

            assistance was needed.

                 Was I helping the Galactic Mind, or merely meddling with

            evolution again, as I had been when I tried to engender Mental

            Man?

                 Our galaxy has so many planets with thinking creatures! Yet so

            few—so pathetically few!—ever achieved any sort of social or

            mental maturity under my guidance, much less the coadunation

            of the higher mindpowers that leads to Unity. But finally, perhaps

            in spite of my efforts rather than as a result of them, I found success.

            The Lylmik were the first minds to Unify, and I adopted their peculiar

            race as my own. Then, aeons later, the Krondaku also achieved

            coadunation.

                 ...

            Paragraph 2 above clearly states AU was CUT OFF from all the minds of Duat.  The final paragraph clearly states that the Lylmik achieved co-ordinance with AU's aid and the use of the term 'finally' and the suggesting that he made so many prior attempts with other civilisations suggest that it was a long time after his return before even the Lylmik managed to pull their socks up.

             

            The Lylmik were simply not around in the Pliocene for Marc to contact and the comments of their sun being different is a TOTAL red herring.

             

            Cheers

             

             

            Padraig

             

          • Rebecca
            ... every ... altruism ... complexification ... fear ... of ... I was always fascinated by this exchange. What mistakes did Marc/Unifex make? And at what
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 15, 2008
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              --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Padraig Timmins"
              <timmypaddins@...> wrote:
              >


              > At the start of Diamond Mask, Atoning Unifix tells Rogi the
              following:
              >
              > ...
              >
              > When the Duat work was done, Elizabeth was weary and ready to
              >
              > pass on. She begged me to follow her into the peace and light of
              >
              > the Cosmic All ... but I could not.
              >
              > Instead, I felt compelled to return here. Alone, cut off from
              every
              >
              > mind that had loved me and from the consoling Unity I had known in
              >
              > Duat, I undertook what I judged was my true penance: to assist the
              >
              > maturation of our own Galactic Mind.
              >
              > Through years that seemed without end I guided one promising
              >
              > planet after another, cajoling civilization from barbarism,
              altruism
              >
              > from savagery. Of course I could not truly coerce the developing
              >
              > races of the Milky Way. I only assisted the inevitable
              complexification
              >
              > of the World Mind that accompanies life's evolution.
              >
              > I made many ghastly mistakes.
              >
              > Can you conceive of the doubts that assailed me, Rogi, the
              fear
              >
              > that I might have succumbed to a hubris even more immense than
              >
              > that which originally obsessed me? No ... I see that you can't
              >
              > understand. Never mind, mon oncle. Only believe me. It was a
              >
              > terrible time. Le bon dieu is as silent and invisible to the likes
              of
              >
              > me as he is to any other material being. I could not help but ask
              >
              > myself if I was committing a fresh sin of pride in thinking that my
              >
              > assistance was needed.
              >
              > Was I helping the Galactic Mind, or merely meddling with
              >
              > evolution again, as I had been when I tried to engender Mental
              >
              > Man?



              I was always fascinated by this exchange. What mistakes did
              Marc/Unifex make? And at what point did he actually "become"
              Atoning Unifex? Was it only in response to the Metapsychic
              Rebellion, or was there another disaster that he caused?
            • Oliver Mundy
              “I . . . don t see recall a reason why the many in all can t be the rebel kids, and it could be the Firvulag too, who also possessed limited skill in
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 16, 2008
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                “I . . . don't see recall a reason why the many in all can't be the rebel
                kids, and it could be the Firvulag too, who also possessed limited skill in
                meta-concerts, even if they were reluctant to use them before Sharn and Ayfa
                took over. And there is NO doubt that it is Marc who helped Felice with the
                final blast of Gibraltar.” (Padraig)

                Padraig: The suggestion of the Firvulag is one I had not thought of:
                intriguing, certainly, especially in the light of the fact that they are
                known to have helped Felice before during her escape from the Tanu
                slave-caravan - but why would the Firvulag be described as 'so much farther
                out'? And would they have been capable of the necessary combination of
                minds at this period, before Sharn and Ayfa's reforms?

                I do think, too, that there is a clear
                distinction in the text between the many-in-All and the Ocalans. Of course
                you are
                right to say that Marc and his confederates, including the younger
                generation (Cloud acknowledges this in her conversations with Kuhal, as you
                have pointed out), were involved in the Gibraltar operation. That in fact
                is the whole point, because the many-in-All was *not* so involved; it had
                helped Felice on the Rhône, but this time it withheld its support and
                'tr[ied] to show [Felice] other ways', and it was
                only after this rejection that she found aid elsewhere - clearly from the
                Rebels.

                I feel more and more that the many-in-All may be identifiable with
                the Ships. They seem to be the most advanced race in the Pliocene
                universe; they have great metapsychic powers and are 'wholly benevolent'
                (JM in 'The Pliocene Companion') and capable of selfless love; they may not
                have achieved Unity as such (perhaps because they are not numerous enough,
                although this is only a guess), but their welcoming appearance at the very
                close of 'The Adversary', in response to Marc and Elizabeth's call, suggests
                that they are at least aware of the concept.

                Oliver Mundy.
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