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Re: Contradictions

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  • Leticia Anderson
    BRAVO Holly, I think you hit the nail on the head here....{see below for Holly s post} As for the comment: Perhaps the former was due to the fact that, even
    Message 1 of 12 , May 6 12:46 AM
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      BRAVO Holly, I think you hit the nail on the head here....{see below
      for Holly's post}

      As for the comment:
      Perhaps the former was due to the fact that, even with Cyndia,
      > Marc never experienced true unconditional love ... hmmm, do I feel
      > another discussion topic coming on? :)

      I think there definitely is a topic there...and I'll jump in first
      and say that i think Marc did love Jack (and Cyndia) as
      wholeheartedly as possible. But he was a wee bit of an emotional
      cripple and maybe that was all he could give. Rogi himself believed
      that Marc found 'true' love only with Elizabeth...but then he was
      never around in Exile anyway was he.
      I think these are important points we should remember about Marc in
      exile but - that he had killed the people he loved best in the world
      just before he came into Exile. And being who he was I think that
      would have meant more to him than all the Krondaku on their planet
      and all the humans on Okanagon. Or even all his family and his wife's
      family and his brother's inlaws who died for him or because of him.
      I think that Marc's love for Jack was whole hearted, at least in the
      beginning, if only because of his youth when he 'fell in love' with
      his baby brother'. But obviously he hurt Jack a lot with his
      insensitivity. And the same with Cyndia. I really likedCyndia and I
      think Marc did love her but for two reasons I will defer to Rogi's
      judgement that the root of Marc's affection for her was sexual. a)
      she was the first to really touch him in his icy virginity (since he
      didn't remember sleeping with his other sister), and b) because Maddy
      and Fury had worked quite well on his mind to make sure he would
      become obsessed with his sister. Even though he hated everything
      Maddy was if he had seen her first he probably would have fallen for
      her and married her the way he did with Cyndia.

      An interesting aside on that topic...how many people have been to
      Stewart Blandon's website which has a 'creat-a-milieu-character'
      page? It's lots of fun anyway....someone with a brilliantly active
      mind had filled out a form on that page making themselves such-and-
      such Remillard, *brother* of Elizabeth Orme. How could this be?
      Because Elizabeth and her brother were the children (or
      grandchildren, I can't quite recall) of Paul Remillard, who had had
      an affair with an operant Denali woman!! And of course that is why
      when Marc and Elizabeth met in exile they immediately recognised the
      consanguinty of their minds....

      Signing off,
      Leda

      PS - I changed the colour schematics on the groups page, what does
      everyone think? IT's very garish but that's okay I guess!
      --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "Holly Atkinson" <holly@p...> wrote:
      > Greetings group! been a while since I've logged on, so I thought
      I'd
      > join this interesting character assessment of our favourite
      egotist...
      >
      > >However, it seems in the Exiles books there's a darker edge now to
      > his coercion-charm
      >
      > How could anyone disagree with this, really? The interesting thing
      > to this idea is why...that May "fell in love with" Marc is a pretty
      > interesting theory, one I hadn't really thought about before, but
      it
      > goes towards her consumate skill as a storyteller that her link to
      > her characters was that strong.
      >
      > Personally, and maybe my teenage mind is being a little simplistic
      > here, but it seems to me that Marc was simply seriously pissed off
      > that the Milieu (and his future self *chuckle*) had thwarted all of
      > his plans for Mental Man. As Rogi himself tells us, the only
      reason
      > Marc got involved in the Rebellion in the first place was because
      his
      > monumental ego couldn't stand the idea of losing control of his own
      > mind, and later because the Concilium attempted to shut down Mental
      > Man. Perhaps the former was due to the fact that, even with
      Cyndia,
      > Marc never experienced true unconditional love ... hmmm, do I feel
      > another discussion topic coming on? :)
      >
      > Malama says at the beginning of Magnificat:
      > "Deep in his heart, Marc thought the war against the Galactic
      Milieu
      > and its Unity was justified, as his followers did. But the Mental
      > Man project was quite different. He knew it was wrong, and yet he
      > couldn't resist the awful elegance of the concept ... Unifex is too
      > ashamed to talk about it. Even now."
      >
      > So perhaps Marc turned from the misdirected and charismatic genius
      of
      > the Milieu series into the sadistic (i agree with previous posts
      > there) and cruel Abaddon of the Pliocene because, along with being
      a
      > major crankypants about his pet science project being binned by his
      > incestuous and insane younger sister, being defeated in an
      > interstellar war, exiled to a prehistoric living hell in the middle
      > of an extra-terrestrial outpost on Earth where he could really cut
      > loose and no-one would care ... I had a point here somewhere ... oh
      > yes, all of which was guaranteed to give a saint a major kill-crush-
      > destroy kinda vibe, but Marc also continued to pursue something
      which
      > he knew was morally wrong. And we're talking about MARC here, so
      > those are some pretty loose morals (the guy married his half-
      sister,
      > people!)
      >
      > So, after clogging up everybody's mailboxes with my pages of
      rambling
      > and several-hundred-word-long sentences, my point would be? Marc
      had
      > a bug up his arse for most of the Pliocene series which was staying
      > quite happily up there because he couldn't get past his anger,
      > regret, bitterness and subconscious disgust at himself due to his
      > past actions. He certainly needed all of those 6 million years to
      > atone.
      >
      > Holly
      >
      > "You know sometimes Marc, you're a real primo prick"
      > -Jack, DM
    • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
      Hi Leda, ... I haven t heard back from Del Rey either (mutter, mutter). ... Hmm…when the time gate was open, it was a handy escape route for the thousands of
      Message 2 of 12 , May 8 10:26 PM
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        Hi Leda,

        --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "Leticia Anderson" <leda_au@y...>
        wrote:
        > Just as an update, I haven't heard anything further from DelRey or
        > Voyager (who are the most recent JM publishers) about Boreal Moon.
        > Anyone else heard anything?
        > Looks like we might just have to wait and find out....
        >
        > Leda

        I haven't heard back from Del Rey either (mutter, mutter).


        >How many people (how many 'inevitable misfits') read the series and
        >imagined how they would outfit themselves to pass through the Gate,
        >from one Brave New World to another? How many people were like
        >Mercy, fiding solace in work or fantasy or drugs but really not
        >filling the gap (a gap which could never be filled in the modern
        >world...). [BTW did anyone ever notice that Mercy took cannabis
        >seeds with her into Exile?? ha ha ha].

        Hmm…when the time gate was open, it was a handy escape route for the
        thousands of misfits who went through. In the books (Magnificat, I
        think) it's mentioned that after the mass exodus back to the future
        the time gate is destroyed forever. But what would happen to future
        misfits who feel out of place in the Milieu, but don't have that
        escape route anymore...


        --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "Leticia Anderson" <leda_au@y...>
        wrote:
        > --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., aenigmatica@h... wrote:
        > > Here's a random thought. Has anyone else noticed that there seem
        to
        > > be contradictions between Marc as portrayed in Exiles and Marc as
        > > portrayed in the Milieu? And they're not of the kind that can be
        > > explained by the passage of time for the character.
        >
        > I just found this review on Amazon which mirrors some of these
        issues
        > about contradiction within the series. Though for the record I woul
        > probably label them 'incongruities' or 'ambiguities' rather than
        > contradictions - try reading the Darkover series over and over and
        > you'll see contradictions!
        >
        > " A disappointment, March 16, 2001
        > Reviewer: A reader from North America
        > Like a lot of people, I remember reading the Saga of thePliocene
        > Exile in the 80s, and liking it very much. Her later 'prequels'
        > pale in comparison. Boring. Not only boring but badly written.
        > Reading the prequels prior to reading the saga is painful. There is
        > little to no continuity. Worse, the whole Fury/Hydra plot is
        > painful to read, and executed badly, being strung out for so long.
        > It is a weak plot to hang a trilogy on. Who is Fury? The better
        > question is, who cares?

        Obviously this guy didn't like the prequels, but really, that's
        his/her problem. I too would call the things pointed out as
        ambiguities, rather than glaring plot holes he/her seems to think.

        High Thoughts

        - Nicolette :-)
      • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
        Hi, Firstly, welcome Evasion to this happy bunch of rebels :-) and no, unfortunately I ve never come across a copy of Brede s Tale (sniff). ... I laughed when
        Message 3 of 12 , May 14 10:32 PM
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          Hi,

          Firstly, welcome Evasion to this happy bunch of rebels :-) and no,
          unfortunately I've never come across a copy of Brede's Tale (sniff).

          > An interesting aside on that topic...how many people have been to
          > Stewart Blandon's website which has a 'creat-a-milieu-character'
          > page? It's lots of fun anyway....someone with a brilliantly active
          > mind had filled out a form on that page making themselves such-and-
          > such Remillard, *brother* of Elizabeth Orme. How could this be?
          > Because Elizabeth and her brother were the children (or
          > grandchildren, I can't quite recall) of Paul Remillard, who had had
          > an affair with an operant Denali woman!! And of course that is why
          > when Marc and Elizabeth met in exile they immediately recognised
          > the consanguinty of their minds....

          I laughed when I saw that entry. So, this person is implying that
          Marc is only attracted to close relatives.... (aah!!)

          Attn newbies - if you've ever dreamed of being an egotistical
          Paramount Remillard, ^_^ hop along to Stewart's site (go
          to 'Bookmarks').

          > PS - I changed the colour schematics on the groups page, what does
          > everyone think? IT's very garish but that's okay I guess!

          It's OK. Why yes, I *always* wear sunglasses when I'm surfing the
          net, really.... ;-)

          High Thoughts,

          - Nicolette :-)

          "All the way across. Now."
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