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Re: Loose Ends Rediscovered

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  • jimc_hjones
    ... Magnificat. End of Chapter 11. They are human bodies, created by Unifex, but fully functional and apparently functional reproductively. Plenty of room for
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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      --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Padraig Timmins
      <timmypaddins@...> wrote:
      > > Corporeal Lylmik children? (Damn, wish I'd thought of that one?)

      > I don't think the child (if indeed it happened what's the reference
      > again? ) would have been born corporeal. They would probably have
      > done something. Indeed even if it was born, it would not necessarily
      > have been of Lylmik genetics, as for all we know their bodies the
      > Lylmik inhabited could have just been lumps of me capable of all the
      > normal day to day bodily functions, but lacking the important genetic
      > code needed to procreate.

      Magnificat. End of Chapter 11. They are human bodies, created by
      Unifex, but fully functional and apparently functional reproductively.
      Plenty of room for speculation about what sort of human germ cells
      Unifex has created, a debugged Jack - yes Mental Man again - has to be
      a possibility!
    • Peter Pigott
      Hi All, Long time since last re-read, but my recollection of the Lylmik in human bodies is that the purpose of AU was to put a bit of spark into the Lylmik
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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        Hi All,

        Long time since last re-read, but my recollection of the Lylmik in human
        bodies is that the purpose of AU was to put a bit of spark into the
        Lylmik libido. Weren't they on the path of reproductive indifference?

        Also to Dougal, I have always perceived him to be no more than a plot
        device, achieving what is needed without requiring explanation by JM.

        Peter

        jimc_hjones wrote:
        > --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Padraig Timmins
        > <timmypaddins@...> wrote:
        >>> Corporeal Lylmik children? (Damn, wish I'd thought of that one?)
        >
        >> I don't think the child (if indeed it happened what's the reference
        >> again? ) would have been born corporeal. They would probably have
        >> done something. Indeed even if it was born, it would not necessarily
        >> have been of Lylmik genetics, as for all we know their bodies the
        >> Lylmik inhabited could have just been lumps of me capable of all the
        >> normal day to day bodily functions, but lacking the important genetic
        >> code needed to procreate.
        >
        > Magnificat. End of Chapter 11. They are human bodies, created by
        > Unifex, but fully functional and apparently functional reproductively.
        > Plenty of room for speculation about what sort of human germ cells
        > Unifex has created, a debugged Jack - yes Mental Man again - has to be
        > a possibility!
        >
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        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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      • Rosemary
        I m really enjoying this discussion! I m a little rusty on all of this so forgive me if my memories are a bit fuzzy... I ve wondered about is Paul Marc-Ange -
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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          I'm really enjoying this discussion! I'm a little rusty on all of this so
          forgive me if my memories are a bit fuzzy...

          I've wondered about is Paul Marc-Ange - I think that's the name of Cloud and
          Kuhal's son...or wait, is it Hagen's??? I wonder what he's like and how he
          fits in to the Milieu, especially after the publication of Rogi's memoirs.

          Were the forward time-travelers relatively unknown to Milieu residents as is
          sometimes implied, or are they celebrities as implied by the Hanover snow
          sculptures at the beginning of Intervention?

          And what were the reactions when the time gate was opened and the Milieu
          authorities came back and found death-sentenced Aiken as the king of the
          many-colored land!

          Finally...does anyone remember William Hsu?


          -Rosemary



          On 7/11/06 5:51 AM, "Robert Powell" <pallol@...> wrote:

          > Okay list of annoying loose ends so far accrued:
          >
          > Lylmik - How were they created/did they evolve?
          >
          > Marc – How does he 'force' his evolution in to a Lylmik?
          >
          > Duat – What was their evolution/story during Marc/Elizabeth's time
          > and afterwards?
          >
          > Brendan – Will he challenge for control of the MCL?
          >
          > Dagdal - Will he challenge for control of the MCL?
          >
          > Smudger - Will he challenge for control of the MCL?
          >
          > Dougal – What is his Genealogy and History?
          >
          > Rogi – Does he get his tubes fixed and have children, now he's back
          > with his old love?
          >
          > Rogi - What do the revelations in his memoirs do to the Milieu?
          >
          > Corporeal Lylmik children? (Damn, wish I'd thought of that one?)
          >
          > Mutagen – where/how does Teresa get exposed to the mutagen that
          > created Jack?
          >
          > Carbunkle – Lylmik Artefact okay; but how was it created and what is
          > its real potential?
          >
          > What's with the number 27?
          >
          >
          >
          > And here's a few more I've been thinking of:
          >
          > What happened to all of Paul's illegitimate children? (Especially
          > given JM's obsessions with inbreeding)
          >
          > Could Dougal be a lost remillard through banked sperm of Paul's
          > shenanigans?
          >
          > Could the Gate really be destroyed on this side permanently? (This
          > is a throw away line, but the geological instability this would
          > create would have major repercussions on water-tables, magnetic
          > fields - followed by migratory birds - and underground power
          > supplies thoughout the region, so I suspect it's more of a fudge
          > than a permanent fix)
          >
          > What was the impact of thousands of Firvulag, Tanu and hybrids
          > refugees suddenly turning up in the Milieu?
          >
          > Just how many time did Unifex directly interact with humanity other
          > than through Rogi?
          >
          > Anymore for anymore? *smile*
          >
          >
          > Finally a thank you . . .
          >
          > This should make it 20 posts in just a few days – which already is
          > more than the rest of this year put together, well woken up
          > everybody! Right lets get a few more up and thinking, somebody wake
          > Moz up! You yes you in the corner, go give Leda a shake, Mike
          > Vallendar must be watching this somewhere – he never misses a trick –
          > he I know must have a few loose ends of note. Let's get this thing
          > rattlin' an a rollin' and a rockin' again!
          >
          > Regards
          >
          > BTBG
          >
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        • Rosemary
          ... I really wondered about these too! Did Paul maintain contact with them? He had a bunch of openly-acknowledged ones but was he involved? Were they prominent
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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            On 7/11/06 5:51 AM, "Robert Powell" <pallol@...> wrote:

            > What happened to all of Paul's illegitimate children? (Especially
            > given JM's obsessions with inbreeding)
            >

            I really wondered about these too! Did Paul maintain contact with them? He
            had a bunch of openly-acknowledged ones but was he involved? Were they
            prominent mental wonders like his other kids?

            And what about the rest of the Dynasty's grandchildren - there was so much
            mental potential there and we never really heard about the cousins except
            the Hydras.

            And this leads me in a roundabout way to...why did the Milieu society create
            such a gulf between the nonborn children and the biological children in
            families? (Today in the real world, kids who are adopted are full members of
            families and are given the surnames of the parents and are considered equal
            siblings to biological children.) The example of Dorothea's nonborn siblings
            made them almost seem like they were hired help who were given room and
            board but not truly parented or encompassed into the family. It sounds like
            a horrible way to grow up and doesn't seem like it's in the best interest of
            the children or society as a whole. It seems so cold to me.

            Actually the more I think about it, the more I realize there is a theme of
            detached parenting or absent parents throughout all of these books.

            Just thinkin'!!!

            -Rosemary
          • OLIVER MUNDY
            One point I have always wondered about is the identity of Aiken Drum s biological parents, whom he glimpses during his therapy in The Adversary . We know
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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              One point I have always wondered about is the identity of Aiken
              Drum's biological parents, whom he glimpses during his therapy in 'The
              Adversary'. We know that he is descended on the male side from the
              McGregors (Jamie, the metapsychic pioneer, and his son Davey, the first
              Dirigent of Earth), and the father-figure whom he sees evidently takes after
              them; but who is the mother - she of the 'dark red frizzy hair, a high
              brow, and tiny regular features too stern to be beautiful'?

              Secondly: why does Claude, in his interview with King Yeochee, play
              down the idea that human beings might have retained an ancestral memory of
              the Firvulag? He may not be a specialist in folklore as Bryan is, but as a
              widely cultured and expecienced person he must be aware of the universal
              folk-tales of 'people of the hills' and the like, and indeed there seems to
              be a vein of irony in his reply to the King, suggesting that he is talking
              through his hat and knows it. Why should he not let the Firvulag (from
              whom, after all, he is about to ask a favour) have the pleasure of knowing
              that they are destined for a long history on Earth?

              Another minor point: - Is it anything more than coincidence that the
              unusual surname 'Shaunavon' is used at two widely separated points? In
              'Intervention', Jamie McGregor's wife Alanna, née Shaunavon, is assassinated
              by an anti-metapsychic fanatic in St. Giles's Kirkyard in Edinburgh (a
              wonderfully atmospheric place, by the way, where every one of the
              oddly-spelled Latin epitaphs seems to half-tell a story); then, a hundred
              or so years later, one Claire Shaunavon turns up as a minor member of Marc's
              rebel group. There seems to be a hint of a second line of fifth-columnists
              among the metapsychic founders, parallelling the Remillards themselves; but
              we are left to guess its nature and history.

              I suspect that these mysteries, like the ambiguity over Agraynel's
              mate, are quite deliberate on JM's part; unlike most writers of popular
              fiction (the 'entertainers' with whom she modestly ranks herself), she does
              not try to condition and control all our responses, but instead lets us take
              part in the creative process by thinking and working out implications and
              significances for ourselves.

              Oliver Mundy.
            • Robert Powell
              ... mutating all the time in very small ways (at least if you’re a Darwinian Evolutionist). And since the way Jack was going was a stepping stone to
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                <snip>
                >
                > > Mutagen - where/how does Teresa get exposed to the mutagen that
                > > created Jack?
                >
                > Not sure she needed to have been exposed at all. Mankind is
                mutating all the time in very small ways (at least if you’re a
                Darwinian Evolutionist). And since the way Jack was going was a
                stepping stone to the natural evolution of getting to the 3rd stage
                co-ordinance of the Lylmik, I can see Teresa simply being an early
                adopter of a mutagen that was simply going to happen to the human
                race anyway.
                >

                <snip>

                If it was just Jack (Dammit that's a Will and Grace catchphrase!!
                *grin*)I might agree but he was just the last in a line of 'problem'
                births and as Theresa had had no problems with her first children it
                was not a natural gene-evolution. In point of fact there was a
                mutagenic cause mentioned - wish I could remember the exact place,
                but it's a long time since I last read the books. We (this group)
                have in the past postulated that the mutagenic accident that made
                Theresa's later births so dangerous (to herself as well her
                offspring) was too specific to be random and may be . . . just may
                be . . . Unifex might have had to deliberately create the cause.

                Which again leads to the question, just how many time did he involve
                himself - saving Scots' heads from muggings and appearing as a
                bigfoot not withstanding of course.

                BTBG
              • Robert Powell
                ... Aiken ... in The ... the ... first ... takes after ... high ... I d love it to have been Madeline myself - I like the idea of Aiken being a
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                  <snip>
                  >
                  > One point I have always wondered about is the identity of
                  Aiken
                  > Drum's biological parents, whom he glimpses during his therapy
                  in 'The
                  > Adversary'. We know that he is descended on the male side from
                  the
                  > McGregors (Jamie, the metapsychic pioneer, and his son Davey, the
                  first
                  > Dirigent of Earth), and the father-figure whom he sees evidently
                  takes after
                  > them; but who is the mother - she of the 'dark red frizzy hair, a
                  high
                  > brow, and tiny regular features too stern to be beautiful'?
                  >

                  <snip>

                  I'd love it to have been Madeline myself - I like the idea of Aiken
                  being a missing Remillard *grin*.

                  >
                  > I suspect that these mysteries, like the ambiguity over
                  Agraynel's
                  > mate, are quite deliberate on JM's part; unlike most writers of
                  popular
                  > fiction (the 'entertainers' with whom she modestly ranks herself),
                  she does
                  > not try to condition and control all our responses, but instead
                  lets us take
                  > part in the creative process by thinking and working out
                  implications and
                  > significances for ourselves.

                  <snip>

                  Yeah, she do that lot don't her. :-)

                  JM has stated a few times that she doesn't have the mental wattage
                  to write another Exiles/Milieu book (never mind a series) and when
                  you take a step back and think about all the wheels within wheels
                  and the massive convoluted story arc, I'm not certain anybody else
                  could either!

                  regards

                  BTBG
                • Padraig Timmins
                  ... One can of course only take her at her word, but I don t see why a follow on from Pliocene has to have anything do do with the Galactic Milieu, and only
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                    > JM has stated a few times that she doesn't have the mental wattage
                    > to write another Exiles/Milieu book (never mind a series) and when
                    > you take a step back and think about all the wheels within wheels
                    > and the massive convoluted story arc, I'm not certain anybody else
                    > could either!

                    One can of course only take her at her word, but I don't see why a follow on from Pliocene has to have anything do do with the Galactic Milieu, and only needs to involve some threads from The Adversay.  But she has said she considers the whole thing over with, sadly, so all we have is our dreams!

                    As for anyone else picking it up, I am sure there are plenty of authors who could do the writing, they would just need some Pliocene know-it-all to ensure they know everything about the series before they started to write.

                    Personally, I would love to see a small series, maybe just two books, set 20 or so years are The Adversary.  With the first half of the first dedicated to the childhoods of four key characters (as I see it - maybe five); Agraynel, Thagdal, Brendan and Sharn-Ador, with the fifth being, maybe, Aiken's firstborn, or a child by someone hard.

                    Cheers

                    Padster

                  • Robert Powell
                    ... authors who could do the writing, they would just need some Pliocene know-it-all to ensure they know everything about the series before they started
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                      <snip>

                      > As for anyone else picking it up, I am sure there are plenty of
                      authors who could do the writing, they would just need some Pliocene
                      know-it-all to ensure they know everything about the series before
                      they started to write.

                      Seriously?

                      Leaving aside the fact that no author would simply hand there most
                      successful works over to another for exploitation, you ain't gonna
                      find a better list of know-it-all than the memebrs of this list and
                      even we can't agree on what happened or what should happen.

                      Any new book would have to be at least as detailed and precise and
                      simple wonderous as the originals to stand up to the intense
                      scrutiny of her most rabid fan (that's thee, me and everybody else
                      on this for a starter, my friend).

                      <snip> Personally, I would love to see a small series, maybe just
                      two books, set 20 or so years are The Adversary. With the first
                      half of the first dedicated to the childhoods of four key characters
                      (as I see it - maybe five); Agraynel, Thagdal, Brendan and Sharn-
                      Ador, with the fifth being, maybe, Aiken's firstborn, or a child by
                      someone hard.

                      <snip>

                      May be a series of short stories might get away with it, but as I
                      said above, I think expectations of another novel length story would
                      be just to high to live up to.

                      Regards

                      BTBG
                    • Robert Powell
                      ... Rosemary... Do you mean Banazir? (AKA Banazîr the Jedi Hobbit) If so you can find his live journal here: http://banazir.livejournal.com/ His
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 31, 2006
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                        <snip>
                        >
                        > Finally...does anyone remember William Hsu?
                        >
                        >
                        > -Rosemary
                        >
                        <snip>

                        Rosemary...

                        Do you mean Banazir? (AKA Banazîr the Jedi Hobbit)

                        If so you can find his live journal here:

                        http://banazir.livejournal.com/

                        His email is linked from his profile if you'd like to contact him.

                        Regards

                        BTBG
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