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Donatien

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  • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
    Hi guys, I ve sometimes wondered why Donatien was given that name, and the other day I was idly reading a review of the movie Quills about the life of the
    Message 1 of 27 , Feb 26, 2001
      Hi guys,

      I've sometimes wondered why Donatien was given that name, and the
      other day I was idly reading a review of the movie 'Quills' about the
      life of the infamous Marquis de Sade. Well, his first name was
      Donatien! Was this a deliberate comparison on JM's part?

      I can see the similarity between the two in a way, as the
      word 'sadism' was named after de Sade (yuck!) and JM's Donatien was
      quite cruel at times.

      Any opinions?

      High Thoughts

      - Nicolette :-)
    • fellicity_@hotmail.com
      It s been quite a while since I ve replied to this group - I ve been quite busy. So it was only today that I saw the message from Deidre stating that some
      Message 2 of 27 , Feb 27, 2001
        It's been quite a while since I've replied to this group - I've been
        quite busy. So it was only today that I saw the message from Deidre
        stating that some people have had problems vewing my messages (I send
        and recieve all of my messages in HTML format). As I am not willing
        to change my email setup just in order to respond here (sorry!) I am
        leaving the E-Group. It has been quite interesting to see all of
        your views on Julian May, and I hope this group grows and thrives.

        I apologise for any problems I might have caused you with my
        formatting, and I wish you all the best in the future.

        Thank you,
        Amanda
      • Leticia Anderson
        Interesting Nic, I did a few searches and couldn t find any other references for Donatien except the Marquis. And there were plenty of refs for him! I think
        Message 3 of 27 , Feb 27, 2001
          Interesting Nic, I did a few searches and couldn't
          find any other references for 'Donatien' except the
          Marquis. And there were plenty of refs for him!
          I think we have probably discussed before on this list
          that the obvious connotations for the names of Rogi
          and Don are phonetic - rogue and gift. Hmmm this may
          be way off but perhaps you could interpret their names
          interms of their MP potential; Rogi always denied his
          and underdeveloped and used it, and could never pass
          on his superior genes, Don on the other hand found his
          place in founding a dynasty based on the gift of good
          genes (and an unholy familial demon unfortunately).
          Finding more than one interpretation for each
          characters's name and other attirbutes just doesn't
          suprise me at all though. I think if Don shares the
          same name as the Marquis and an inclination towards
          some of the Marquis' less salubrious habits than May
          meant it that way!
          She actually says in on of the interviews in 'Pliocene
          Companion' that she tried to give every character more
          than one reason for being in the novel. And i'd be
          hard put to argue that she fails!

          Leda


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        • Leticia Anderson
          Amanda would you consider staying and continuing to post in html for those of us who can read your posts (most of us shouldn t ave a problem and the posts can
          Message 4 of 27 , Feb 27, 2001
            Amanda would you consider staying and continuing to
            post in html for those of us who can read your posts
            (most of us shouldn't ave a problem and the posts can
            always be read on the Yahoo groups site).
            You've contributed a lot to our discussion in the past
            and it would be a shame to see you move on.

            Leda

            --- fellicity_@... wrote:
            >
            > It's been quite a while since I've replied to this
            > group - I've been
            > quite busy. So it was only today that I saw the
            > message from Deidre
            > stating that some people have had problems vewing my
            > messages (I send
            > and recieve all of my messages in HTML format). As
            > I am not willing
            > to change my email setup just in order to respond
            > here (sorry!) I am
            > leaving the E-Group. It has been quite interesting
            > to see all of
            > your views on Julian May, and I hope this group
            > grows and thrives.
            >
            > I apologise for any problems I might have caused you
            > with my
            > formatting, and I wish you all the best in the
            > future.
            >
            > Thank you,
            > Amanda
            >
            >


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            Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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          • nicolel@iconz.co.nz
            Firstly, a humble request to Amanda to reconsider leaving. We need all the people we can get and you would be missed... ... Well, Rogi was definately a rogue,
            Message 5 of 27 , Feb 27, 2001
              Firstly, a humble request to Amanda to reconsider leaving. We need
              all the people we can get and you would be missed...

              --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Leticia Anderson <leda_au@y...> wrote:
              > Interesting Nic, I did a few searches and couldn't
              > find any other references for 'Donatien' except the
              > Marquis. And there were plenty of refs for him!
              > I think we have probably discussed before on this list
              > that the obvious connotations for the names of Rogi
              > and Don are phonetic - rogue and gift. Hmmm this may
              > be way off but perhaps you could interpret their names
              > interms of their MP potential; Rogi always denied his
              > and underdeveloped and used it, and could never pass
              > on his superior genes, Don on the other hand found his
              > place in founding a dynasty based on the gift of good
              > genes (and an unholy familial demon unfortunately).

              Well, Rogi was definately a rogue, you gotta love a telepath who runs
              a sci-fi bookstore rather than be a mover and shaker like the rest of
              his family (Note to self - check out owners of sci-fi stores for any
              signs of telepathy ^_^. Watch out for grey-eyed kids too..)

              > Finding more than one interpretation for each
              > characters's name and other attirbutes just doesn't
              > suprise me at all though. I think if Don shares the
              > same name as the Marquis and an inclination towards
              > some of the Marquis' less salubrious habits than May
              > meant it that way!

              Yes. I was re-reading a bit of 'Intervention' where Rogi shares
              the 'life review' of the dying Don. I thought it was sad that while
              Don regretted the things he had done to Rogi, he didn't regret hating
              him. Ouch.

              > She actually says in on of the interviews in 'Pliocene
              > Companion' that she tried to give every character more
              > than one reason for being in the novel. And i'd be
              > hard put to argue that she fails!

              > Leda

              While many of the characters are archetypes, they are fairly well-
              rounded characters in their own right.

              High Thoughts

              - Nicolette :-)

              "Maybe megalomaniacs aren't really happy unless they have an audience"
            • Leticia Anderson
              ... There are so many of us poor misguided May fans out there but it is hard to track them down. We have had our quietest month yet on the list this Feb but I
              Message 6 of 27 , Feb 27, 2001
                --- nicolel@... wrote:
                > Firstly, a humble request to Amanda to reconsider
                > leaving. We need
                > all the people we can get and you would be missed...

                There are so many of us poor misguided May fans out
                there but it is hard to track them down. We have had
                our quietest month yet on the list this Feb but I
                think things are going to head back up again somehow.
                I haven't had the opportunity to promote the site or
                enlist new members for a few months now but every few
                weeks I am still getting spontaneous join ups which is
                great. So welcome to those who have joined this year -
                I'd welcome everyone by name but can't recall all the
                joinups off the top of my head. A few did stick out
                though *g*, those being Aiken Drum and Atoning Unifex
                so thanks for the interest!
                Thanks to Elena's advice last year the list is
                starting to surface in search results as well which is
                great - some of the biggies aren't pulling us up yet
                but I know Google and one or two others display the
                page for this group on the first page of sites for
                Julian May and Galactic Milieu which is GREAT!
                Also thanks to Neill ;) who has put a link to the page
                on his site (and encouragement to anyone else who
                would like to help out this way - either display a
                link or you can program a button to be displayed on
                your May-or not-May related homepage by clicking
                through to the Promote section on the Yahoo! group
                homepage).
                Hearing from the list again has energised me to get
                back out there and email people whose addresses I have
                had for a while but haven't chased....

                Hope everything is all back on track.

                High Thoughts!

                Leda


                > --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Leticia Anderson
                > <leda_au@y...> wrote:
                > > Interesting Nic, I did a few searches and couldn't
                > > find any other references for 'Donatien' except
                > the
                > > Marquis. And there were plenty of refs for him!
                > > I think we have probably discussed before on this
                > list
                > > that the obvious connotations for the names of
                > Rogi
                > > and Don are phonetic - rogue and gift. Hmmm this
                > may
                > > be way off but perhaps you could interpret their
                > names
                > > interms of their MP potential; Rogi always denied
                > his
                > > and underdeveloped and used it, and could never
                > pass
                > > on his superior genes, Don on the other hand found
                > his
                > > place in founding a dynasty based on the gift of
                > good
                > > genes (and an unholy familial demon
                > unfortunately).
                >
                > Well, Rogi was definately a rogue, you gotta love a
                > telepath who runs
                > a sci-fi bookstore rather than be a mover and shaker
                > like the rest of
                > his family (Note to self - check out owners of
                > sci-fi stores for any
                > signs of telepathy ^_^. Watch out for grey-eyed kids
                > too..)
                >
                > > Finding more than one interpretation for each
                > > characters's name and other attirbutes just
                > doesn't
                > > suprise me at all though. I think if Don shares
                > the
                > > same name as the Marquis and an inclination
                > towards
                > > some of the Marquis' less salubrious habits than
                > May
                > > meant it that way!
                >
                > Yes. I was re-reading a bit of 'Intervention' where
                > Rogi shares
                > the 'life review' of the dying Don. I thought it was
                > sad that while
                > Don regretted the things he had done to Rogi, he
                > didn't regret hating
                > him. Ouch.
                >
                > > She actually says in on of the interviews in
                > 'Pliocene
                > > Companion' that she tried to give every character
                > more
                > > than one reason for being in the novel. And i'd be
                > > hard put to argue that she fails!
                >
                > > Leda
                >
                > While many of the characters are archetypes, they
                > are fairly well-
                > rounded characters in their own right.
                >
                > High Thoughts
                >
                > - Nicolette :-)
                >
                > "Maybe megalomaniacs aren't really happy unless they
                > have an audience"
                >
                >
                >


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              • Amanda Prater
                Thanks Leda. I just don t want to be a bother and inconvenience anyone with my fancy-schmancy (heh) emails. ;) It s a major pain to switch back and forth
                Message 7 of 27 , Feb 27, 2001

                  Thanks Leda.  I just don't want to be a bother and inconvenience anyone with my fancy-schmancy (heh) emails. ;)   It's a major pain to switch back and forth between templates, and with the amount of work I do online through emails, not worth the hassle.  I'll probably be in and out, or vaguely absent in the group as I have been lately anyway. I'm terribly busy right now; 2 websites in the works,  2 chat forums I'm helping to moderate, plus I'm beta testing for a new online RPG (which all of you fantasy/ sci-fi buffs should enjoy... I'll give more details as they come about).  Until later then. ;)

                  Amanda

                  >From: Leticia Anderson
                  >Reply-To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Hello all
                  >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:59:24 -0800 (PST)
                  >
                  >Amanda would you consider staying and continuing to
                  >post in html for those of us who can read your posts
                  >(most of us shouldn't ave a problem and the posts can
                  >always be read on the Yahoo groups site).
                  >You've contributed a lot to our discussion in the past
                  >and it would be a shame to see you move on.
                  >
                  >Leda
                  >
                  >--- fellicity_@... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It's been quite a while since I've replied to this
                  > > group - I've been
                  > > quite busy. So it was only today that I saw the
                  > > message from Deidre
                  > > stating that some people have had problems vewing my
                  > > messages (I send
                  > > and recieve all of my messages in HTML format). As
                  > > I am not willing
                  > > to change my email setup just in order to respond
                  > > here (sorry!) I am
                  > > leaving the E-Group. It has been quite interesting
                  > > to see all of
                  > > your views on Julian May, and I hope this group
                  > > grows and thrives.
                  > >
                  > > I apologise for any problems I might have caused you
                  > > with my
                  > > formatting, and I wish you all the best in the
                  > > future.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you,
                  > > Amanda
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >__________________________________________________
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                  >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
                  >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


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                • atoning_unifex@ntlworld.com
                  ... Happy to help the cause :) ... Good luck. In the mean time, I thought I would make a contribution to the group by raising a new topic. Or maybe it isn t
                  Message 8 of 27 , Feb 28, 2001
                    --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Leticia Anderson <leda_au@y...> wrote:

                    > Also thanks to Neill ;)

                    Happy to help the cause :)

                    > Hearing from the list again has energised me to get
                    > back out there and email people whose addresses I have
                    > had for a while but haven't chased....

                    Good luck. In the mean time, I thought I would make a contribution to
                    the group by raising a new topic. Or maybe it isn't new? It has been
                    a
                    popular topic in the May newsgroup and one that draws a huge mixture
                    of opinions.

                    1) Does anyone think that Intervention and/or the Milieu trilogy are
                    good film material?

                    2) If the answer to the above is yes, who would be the ideal actors
                    to
                    play the main parts?

                    If this is one of those topics that comes up often and you're sick
                    of,
                    please just ignore the post.

                    Regards,

                    Unifex
                  • GRANT PETER STEWART,ANDERSON
                    ... Actually, I was just thinking the other day (after watching some terrible Aussie sci-fi programme) that Intervention would make a really decent
                    Message 9 of 27 , Feb 28, 2001
                      > 1) Does anyone think that Intervention and/or the Milieu trilogy are
                      > good film material?

                      Actually, I was just thinking the other day (after watching some terrible
                      Aussie sci-fi programme) that Intervention would make a really decent
                      mini-series. Gives you a bit longer than the 2-3 hours that movies
                      generally use.

                      And I think I recall that the book itself was sold in two parts - the
                      Surveillance and the Metaconcert - in some editions. Mine's just in one
                      paperback, so I can't say for sure. But even Intervention would benefit
                      from extended time, so the Milieu Trilogy probably couldn't be done justice
                      in one film, and I don't know if I'd even say one film per book would be
                      enough! If it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly, y'know?

                      As to casting, I'm not entirely sure. :-) But I'd like to see ideas...

                      Grant
                      (Who has just discovered that getting Blackadder DVDs is going to cost him
                      an arm and a leg - or at least NZ$186...)
                    • Unifex
                      ... terrible ... Indeed. A mini-series is a popular suggestion - with the right backing and the right direction, it could be done really well. My only fear
                      Message 10 of 27 , Feb 28, 2001
                        On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:07:06 +1300, GRANT PETER STEWART,ANDERSON wrote:

                        > Actually, I was just thinking the other day (after watching some
                        terrible
                        > Aussie sci-fi programme) that Intervention would make a really decent
                        > mini-series. Gives you a bit longer than the 2-3 hours that movies
                        > generally use.

                        Indeed. A mini-series is a popular suggestion - with the right backing
                        and the right direction, it could be done really well. My only fear is a
                        cheaply made mini-series version could do May's work more damage than
                        good.

                        > And I think I recall that the book itself was sold in two parts - the
                        > Surveillance and the Metaconcert - in some editions. Mine's just in one
                        > paperback, so I can't say for sure.

                        You're right, it was originally split into two volumes.

                        > But even Intervention would benefit
                        > from extended time, so the Milieu Trilogy probably couldn't be done
                        justice
                        > in one film, and I don't know if I'd even say one film per book would be
                        > enough! If it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly, y'know?

                        Yes I agree whole-heartedly. But.. a lot of Intervention was
                        dialogue-free and concentrated on much of the science behind the plot.
                        Once converted to screenplay, Intervention would be a lot smaller in size.

                        > As to casting, I'm not entirely sure. :-) But I'd like to see ideas...

                        Well.. I haven't come up with a whole cast, but I think Kevin Spacey would
                        be great for the part of Rogi...

                        > (Who has just discovered that getting Blackadder DVDs is going to cost
                        him
                        > an arm and a leg - or at least NZ$186...)

                        Have you tried Amazon?

                        Unifex
                      • GRANT PETER STEWART,ANDERSON
                        ... That s true... You d need some method of exposition, though, to get the most out of some of the scenes, I d say... Perhaps excerpts of Denis s book
                        Message 11 of 27 , Feb 28, 2001
                          > Yes I agree whole-heartedly. But.. a lot of Intervention was
                          > dialogue-free and concentrated on much of the science behind the plot.
                          > Once converted to screenplay, Intervention would be a lot smaller in
                          > size.

                          That's true... You'd need some method of exposition, though, to get the
                          most out of some of the scenes, I'd say... Perhaps excerpts of Denis's book
                          Metapsychology, via a narrator (maybe Rogi himself?)

                          >> (Who has just discovered that getting Blackadder DVDs is going to cost
                          him
                          >> an arm and a leg - or at least NZ$186...)

                          > Have you tried Amazon?

                          My DVD player's region 4 only - I didn't think Amazon had any apart from
                          R1... I'd be happy to be wrong, though :-)

                          Grant
                        • Leticia Anderson
                          ... Cheers! ... Most definitely so. In jan we were toying around with casting for JtB but didn t get that far. There were a few suggestions tossed around:
                          Message 12 of 27 , Feb 28, 2001
                            > > Also thanks to Neill ;)
                            >
                            > Happy to help the cause :)

                            Cheers!


                            > 1) Does anyone think that Intervention and/or the
                            > Milieu trilogy are
                            > good film material?

                            Most definitely so. In jan we were toying around with
                            casting for JtB but didn't get that far. There were a
                            few suggestions tossed around:

                            Director - Peter Jackson, ?
                            Aiken Drum - Seth Green
                            Victor or Marc - Hugh Jackman
                            Victor - Joaquim Phoenix
                            Paul - Jonathon Frakes
                            Rogatien - Ian Holm
                            Denis - James Spader or Christian Bale
                            Kieran O'Connor - Gabriel Byrne or Ed Wasser or Pierce
                            Brosnan
                            Davie MacGregor - Gabriel Byrne
                            Jack - Christian Bale
                            Marc - young Marc could be Casey Affleck
                            Teresa Kendall - Cate Blanchett
                            Lucille - Connie Nielson or Juliette Binoche
                            Don - Sean Penn

                            Thats all the ones we have come up with thus far but
                            maybe we can generate some more suggestions.
                            Favourite scenes for a movie? Obviously there a few
                            spectacular standouts - the Intervention and the
                            destruction of Okanagon would have to be bkillers, as
                            would the Grand Tourney in tA.
                            I'd also list for pure freak value the scenes of the
                            babies in Magnifciat.
                            Also....Rogi drilling the hole through the window with
                            a psychocreative bolt in the X-man position. The first
                            meeting of Teresa Kendall and Paul when he saw he
                            singing (hell when will that story be fully told there
                            is definitely a book missing from the series to cover
                            the tale of their years together and Paul's youth).
                            Marc and Cyndia meeting....Diamond andthe battle on
                            the Isle of Islay, that would be cool.

                            There are so many, god this girl is good!

                            Leda


                            > 2) If the answer to the above is yes, who would be
                            > the ideal actors
                            > to
                            > play the main parts?
                            >
                            > If this is one of those topics that comes up often
                            > and you're sick
                            > of,
                            > please just ignore the post.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Unifex
                            >
                            >


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                          • Leticia Anderson
                            ... Hey! Be careful Grant, the Kiwis constitute a strong proportion of this group but the Aussies have a presence too (where do you stand on this one Avalon?
                            Message 13 of 27 , Feb 28, 2001
                              > Actually, I was just thinking the other day (after
                              > watching some terrible
                              > Aussie sci-fi programme)

                              Hey! Be careful Grant, the Kiwis constitute a strong
                              proportion of this group but the Aussies have a
                              presence too (where do you stand on this one Avalon?
                              *g*).
                              Actually I'd be more likely to blame the dodginess of
                              the program on the factit was sci-fi than that it was
                              Aussie! I've always been a fan of sci-fi and fantasy
                              literature but apart from a few classics I have a
                              limited attraction to televised Sci-fi. It can so
                              easily end up looking tacky...like the aliens in the
                              Simpsons. I think May does well to retain humour when
                              dealing with her exotics but still the thought of
                              seeing a Gi or a Simbiari or Krondak (who I imagine as
                              exactly like the Simpsons aliens) on film is quite
                              scary.
                              Does anyone else have this inhibition about onscreen
                              sci-fi?

                              Leda


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                            • Unifex
                              ... book ... That could work well provided the narration wasn t too excessive. ... Ah.. regions.. forgot about them. They do sell R0 dvds too but not many. I
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 1, 2001
                                On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:39:07 +1300, GRANT PETER STEWART,ANDERSON wrote:

                                > > Once converted to screenplay, Intervention would be a lot smaller in
                                > > size.
                                >
                                > That's true... You'd need some method of exposition, though, to get the
                                > most out of some of the scenes, I'd say... Perhaps excerpts of Denis's
                                book
                                > Metapsychology, via a narrator (maybe Rogi himself?)

                                That could work well provided the narration wasn't too excessive.

                                > > Have you tried Amazon?
                                >
                                > My DVD player's region 4 only - I didn't think Amazon had any apart from
                                > R1... I'd be happy to be wrong, though :-)

                                Ah.. regions.. forgot about them. They do sell R0 dvds too but not many.
                                I have a similar problem. My dvd player is R2 only and most of the dvds I
                                want have only had a R1 release..

                                Unifex
                              • Unifex
                                ... I think Hugh Jackman would make a great Marc - provided he shaves those sideburns =) ... Hmm.. not familiar with him.. ... Nor him.. ... I m not keen on
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 1, 2001
                                  On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:20:09 -0800 (PST), Leticia Anderson wrote:

                                  > > 1) Does anyone think that Intervention and/or the
                                  > > Milieu trilogy are
                                  > > good film material?
                                  >
                                  > Most definitely so. In jan we were toying around with
                                  > casting for JtB but didn't get that far. There were a
                                  > few suggestions tossed around:

                                  > Victor or Marc - Hugh Jackman
                                  I think Hugh Jackman would make a great Marc - provided he shaves those
                                  sideburns =)

                                  > Victor - Joaquim Phoenix
                                  Hmm.. not familiar with him..

                                  > Paul - Jonathon Frakes
                                  Nor him..

                                  > Rogatien - Ian Holm
                                  I'm not keen on Holm.. great actor, but short and old..

                                  > Denis - James Spader or Christian Bale
                                  James Spader is an excellent suggestion.. I've always thought his eyes
                                  looked grey =) But who's Christian Bale?

                                  > Kieran O'Connor - Gabriel Byrne or Ed Wasser or Pierce
                                  Gabriel Bryne! Perfect!

                                  > Davie MacGregor - Gabriel Byrne
                                  I thought Ewan McGregor would be good for this part.. he's Scottish, a
                                  superb actor, right age.. and he almost has the same surname =)

                                  > Marc - young Marc could be Casey Affleck
                                  Haven't heard of him.. younger sibling of Ben?

                                  > Teresa Kendall - Cate Blanchett
                                  Another great suggestion..

                                  > Lucille - Connie Nielson or Juliette Binoche
                                  Not familiar with these two..

                                  > Don - Sean Penn
                                  Hmm.. I think Sean Penn is a bit weedy to play Don, no offence to Mr Penn
                                  =) Don being someone who lugged trees around for a living, I imagine him
                                  as being quite big - I remember his disappointment in Denis who excelled
                                  more academically than physically..

                                  > Thats all the ones we have come up with thus far but
                                  > maybe we can generate some more suggestions.
                                  > Favourite scenes for a movie? Obviously there a few
                                  > spectacular standouts - the Intervention and the
                                  > destruction of Okanagon would have to be bkillers, as
                                  > would the Grand Tourney in tA.
                                  > I'd also list for pure freak value the scenes of the
                                  > babies in Magnifciat.
                                  > Also....Rogi drilling the hole through the window with
                                  > a psychocreative bolt in the X-man position. The first
                                  > meeting of Teresa Kendall and Paul when he saw he
                                  > singing (hell when will that story be fully told there
                                  > is definitely a book missing from the series to cover
                                  > the tale of their years together and Paul's youth).
                                  > Marc and Cyndia meeting....Diamond andthe battle on
                                  > the Isle of Islay, that would be cool.
                                  >
                                  > There are so many

                                  One of my favourite scenes is when my namesake and the other members of
                                  the quincux meet together at a hotel 'wearing' human bodies and try to
                                  bond with their pet dogs. Not a particularly explosive scene but I found
                                  it quite amusing..

                                  Unifex
                                • Unifex
                                  ... Yes very much so.. sci-fi movies are usually done very well, but thus far, I haven t been impressed with mini-series. X-Files was done very well.. but no
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 1, 2001
                                    On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:27:07 -0800 (PST), Leticia Anderson wrote:

                                    > Actually I'd be more likely to blame the dodginess of
                                    > the program on the factit was sci-fi than that it was
                                    > Aussie! I've always been a fan of sci-fi and fantasy
                                    > literature but apart from a few classics I have a
                                    > limited attraction to televised Sci-fi. It can so
                                    > easily end up looking tacky...like the aliens in the
                                    > Simpsons. I think May does well to retain humour when
                                    > dealing with her exotics but still the thought of
                                    > seeing a Gi or a Simbiari or Krondak (who I imagine as
                                    > exactly like the Simpsons aliens) on film is quite
                                    > scary.
                                    > Does anyone else have this inhibition about onscreen
                                    > sci-fi?

                                    Yes very much so.. sci-fi movies are usually done very well, but thus far,
                                    I haven't been impressed with mini-series. X-Files was done very well..
                                    but no other springs to mind. I was amazed when you made the comparison
                                    with the Simpsons aliens because I thought exactly the same thing.. I
                                    imagined the Krondaku in exactly the same way.. but without the large
                                    portable domes. I think a considerable amount of CGI would be needed to
                                    created May's aliens..
                                  • GRANT PETER STEWART,ANDERSON
                                    ... As you say, I certainly wasn t blaming the fact that it was Aussie for its terrible-ness! I can t even remember the name of it now, but it -was- fairly
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 1, 2001
                                      > Hey! Be careful Grant, the Kiwis constitute a strong
                                      > proportion of this group but the Aussies have a
                                      > presence too (where do you stand on this one Avalon?
                                      > *g*).

                                      As you say, I certainly wasn't blaming the fact that it was Aussie for its
                                      terrible-ness! I can't even remember the name of it now, but it -was-
                                      fairly tacky. Not that we Kiwis have too many decent sci-fi programmes of
                                      our own, mind you. There's an awful lot of -bad- sci-fi movies/programmes
                                      out there, which has the somewhat beneficial side-effect of making the good
                                      ones stand out that much more!

                                      Which is why I'd really like to see a -good- version of Julian May's works,
                                      if they ever made the big screen. Damn the budget, full steam ahead! :-)

                                      Grant
                                    • Avalon Myst
                                      ... Um ... I d like to know what terrible Aussie sci fi programme you were watching Grant (before firmly seating myself in the Kiwi camp) LOL *g* @ Leda
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 2, 2001
                                        --- Leticia Anderson <leda_au@...> wrote: >

                                        > > Actually, I was just thinking the other day
                                        > (after
                                        > > watching some terrible
                                        > > Aussie sci-fi programme)
                                        >
                                        > Hey! Be careful Grant, the Kiwis constitute a
                                        > strong
                                        > proportion of this group but the Aussies have a
                                        > presence too (where do you stand on this one
                                        > Avalon?
                                        > *g*).

                                        Um ... I'd like to know what terrible Aussie sci
                                        fi programme you were watching Grant (before
                                        firmly seating myself in the Kiwi camp) LOL

                                        *g* @ Leda

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                                      • Leticia Anderson
                                        ... It becomes a height problem again - Jackman has never seemed very tall to me those this could be from seeing X-men, Wolverine is always meant to be a small
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 4, 2001
                                          > > Victor or Marc - Hugh Jackman
                                          > I think Hugh Jackman would make a great Marc -
                                          > provided he shaves those
                                          > sideburns =)

                                          It becomes a height problem again - Jackman has never
                                          seemed very tall to me those this could be from seeing
                                          X-men, Wolverine is always meant to be a small bundle
                                          of fury and Jackman carried tat off perfectly. He is
                                          probably taller than you would think but I don't know
                                          there has to be a perfect Marcout there somewhere (in
                                          real life as well as the movies ;)

                                          > > Victor - Joaquim Phoenix
                                          > Hmm.. not familiar with him..

                                          Younger brother of River, cf To Die for with Nicole
                                          Kidman, Gladiator and Quills. Dark brooding
                                          semi-pscyhotic type with typical Remillard physique in
                                          Gladiators esp.

                                          > > Paul - Jonathon Frakes
                                          > Nor him..

                                          StarTrek....

                                          > > Denis - James Spader or Christian Bale
                                          > James Spader is an excellent suggestion.. I've
                                          > always thought his eyes
                                          > looked grey =) But who's Christian Bale?

                                          You might remember him from Empire of the Sun where he
                                          played the young JG Ballard. Then no one heard of him
                                          for fifteen years or so and popped back up in Little
                                          Women and Velvet Goldmine....then in American Psycho.

                                          > > Kieran O'Connor - Gabriel Byrne or Ed Wasser or
                                          > Pierce
                                          > Gabriel Bryne! Perfect!
                                          >
                                          > > Davie MacGregor - Gabriel Byrne
                                          > I thought Ewan McGregor would be good for this
                                          > part.. he's Scottish, a
                                          > superb actor, right age.. and he almost has the same
                                          > surname =)

                                          Ewan MacGregor with dark hair but. He's going to have
                                          dark hair for Moulin Rouge and I saw some shots of him
                                          at a short film festival here last year when it was
                                          being filmed. Most excellent...

                                          > > Marc - young Marc could be Casey Affleck
                                          > Haven't heard of him.. younger sibling of Ben?

                                          Yeah he has been in a few things on his own but you
                                          usually see him in Ben's pics e.g. Good Will Hunting
                                          and Chasing Amy (but he was in To Die For with
                                          Joaquin).

                                          > > Teresa Kendall - Cate Blanchett
                                          > Another great suggestion..
                                          >
                                          > > Lucille - Connie Nielson or Juliette Binoche
                                          > Not familiar with these two..

                                          Connie was the love interest in Gladiator.....I
                                          actually think she is a Madeleine candidate too.
                                          Juliette was in three colours Blue and also played
                                          Hanna in The English Patient.....we have a problem
                                          again where May makes her characters with French or
                                          Irish or Scottich ancestry actually seem french or
                                          scottish or irish. We had the same problem with Kieran
                                          - he seems rough and celtic but is American more than
                                          anything, Lucille seems so gourgeous and French but
                                          she too is more American than French....Juliette is a
                                          quintessentially French gal.
                                          Actually that reminds me of Julie Delpy another French
                                          gal who could be a fantastic Cyndia! She was in Three
                                          colours white (where the trigger came from), Killing
                                          Zoe, Before Sunrise, Europa Europa....what else? The
                                          Three Musketeers!

                                          > > Don - Sean Penn
                                          > Hmm.. I think Sean Penn is a bit weedy to play Don,
                                          > no offence to Mr Penn
                                          > =) Don being someone who lugged trees around for a
                                          > living, I imagine him
                                          > as being quite big - I remember his disappointment
                                          > in Denis who excelled
                                          > more academically than physically..

                                          Have you seen American History X!!! That guy builds up
                                          a hell of a lot of bulk in that movie. He could just
                                          carry off Don I think....


                                          >
                                          > One of my favourite scenes is when my namesake and
                                          > the other members of
                                          > the quincux meet together at a hotel 'wearing' human
                                          > bodies and try to
                                          > bond with their pet dogs. Not a particularly
                                          > explosive scene but I found
                                          > it quite amusing..
                                          >
                                          > Unifex

                                          We often go back and discuss that scene because
                                          (rousing humours aside) it is a key informative scene
                                          as to how much the Lylmik know and what the Lylmik
                                          are....Holly, do you have any feedback on the replies
                                          to your queries about Lylmik sexuality over the break?

                                          Leda

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                                        • Unifex
                                          On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:59:10 -0800 (PST), Leticia Anderson wrote: I m sure I read that Jackman is 6ft.. however after someone suggested Casey Affleck, I checked
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 5, 2001
                                            On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:59:10 -0800 (PST), Leticia Anderson wrote:

                                            I'm sure I read that Jackman is 6ft.. however after someone suggested
                                            Casey Affleck, I checked him out and he is the closest yet to the way I
                                            pictured Marc in Jack The Bodiless..

                                            > > But who's Christian Bale?
                                            >
                                            > You might remember him from Empire of the Sun where he
                                            > played the young JG Ballard. Then no one heard of him
                                            > for fifteen years or so and popped back up in Little
                                            > Women and Velvet Goldmine....then in American Psycho.

                                            I wondered what happened to him after Empire of the Sun.. haven't seen
                                            American Psycho but I've see Little Women, so I have a vague idea of what
                                            he looks like..

                                            > Have you seen American History X!!! That guy builds up
                                            > a hell of a lot of bulk in that movie. He could just
                                            > carry off Don I think....

                                            =) I haven't seen American History X so I'll take your word for it.

                                            > > One of my favourite scenes is when my namesake and
                                            > > the other members of
                                            > > the quincux meet together at a hotel 'wearing' human
                                            > > bodies and try to
                                            > > bond with their pet dogs. Not a particularly
                                            > > explosive scene but I found
                                            > > it quite amusing..
                                            > >
                                            > > Unifex
                                            >
                                            > We often go back and discuss that scene because
                                            > (rousing humours aside) it is a key informative scene
                                            > as to how much the Lylmik know and what the Lylmik
                                            > are....Holly, do you have any feedback on the replies
                                            > to your queries about Lylmik sexuality over the break?

                                            Sexuality? I always assumed they were asexual in someway. Is there
                                            nothing definitive in any of May's books?

                                            Unifex
                                          • Ian J Greely
                                            ... Yes, that would work for me... ... Kathryn Bigelow or Ridley Scott... Actually though I d like a big Ridley Scott production I think Kathryn would be more
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 12, 2001
                                              On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:37:18 -0000, you wrote:

                                              >
                                              >> What about Angelina Jolie for Felice?
                                              >
                                              >She has the right intensity! And looks great with white blond hair.
                                              >
                                              Yes, that would work for me...

                                              >> Who would all of you want as a director?

                                              Kathryn Bigelow or Ridley Scott...

                                              Actually though I'd like a big Ridley Scott production I think Kathryn
                                              would be more authentic to that female perspective that May seems to
                                              work from.

                                              regards,
                                              Ian
                                            • Leticia Anderson
                                              ... Of course, there ... There is those few young femmes like Anna Paquin or Natalie Portman - petitie, fiesty but not over the top. ... She has the right
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 12, 2001
                                                --- Michaela Bronstein <aenigmatica@...> wrote:
                                                Of course, there
                                                > is the age issue, and we
                                                > see Diamond much much less older than we do younger.
                                                > At the same time, when
                                                > she's younger we're seeing her at an age much
                                                > younger than *any* actress
                                                > that we know of.

                                                There is those few young femmes like Anna Paquin or Natalie Portman -
                                                petitie, fiesty but not over the top.


                                                > What about Angelina Jolie for Felice?

                                                She has the right intensity! And looks great with white blond hair.

                                                > >Victor - Joaquim Phoenix
                                                > I agree. Joaquim might also work for Hagen, who is
                                                > the same mixture of rage
                                                > and weakness that Commodus was in "Gladiator."

                                                Yes and similar pathological hangups over the father. They were a
                                                REALLY messed up family the Remillards, I can't think of any normal
                                                family situations among them. Every son hated his father....the only
                                                thing about Hagen is that I don't feel he was such a striking looking
                                                dark Remillard, more in Denis' mold I think.

                                                > Who would all of you want as a director?

                                                If only Stanley K were still around I think he would have done great
                                                with Intervention (though not good on pliocene saga). I think he would
                                                have been able to get the right intensity out of tormented Rogi and
                                                Don, and illustrated well the conflict in the second partof the book
                                                between the Sons of Earth and the MPs.

                                                And how do
                                                > you think some of the
                                                > more abstract scenes could be staged--for example,
                                                > the Dynasty's attempt at
                                                > the integration of Dennis and Fury?
                                                >
                                                > Michaela

                                                ILM would have a field day....it could end up looking a bit like
                                                'Tron' though I have a suspicion. I've always imagined that scene as
                                                like a vast dimension less black plain with webs and clusters of smoky
                                                light representing the MP energies. That is something that could be
                                                animated quit
                                              • Leticia Anderson
                                                ... Of course, there ... There is those few young femmes like Anna Paquin or Natalie Portman - petitie, fiesty but not over the top. ... She has the right
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 12, 2001
                                                  --- Michaela Bronstein <aenigmatica@...> wrote:
                                                  Of course, there
                                                  > is the age issue, and we
                                                  > see Diamond much much less older than we do younger.
                                                  > At the same time, when
                                                  > she's younger we're seeing her at an age much
                                                  > younger than *any* actress
                                                  > that we know of.

                                                  There is those few young femmes like Anna Paquin or Natalie Portman -
                                                  petitie, fiesty but not over the top.


                                                  > What about Angelina Jolie for Felice?

                                                  She has the right intensity! And looks great with white blond hair.

                                                  > >Victor - Joaquim Phoenix
                                                  > I agree. Joaquim might also work for Hagen, who is
                                                  > the same mixture of rage
                                                  > and weakness that Commodus was in "Gladiator."

                                                  Yes and similar pathological hangups over the father. They were a
                                                  REALLY messed up family the Remillards, I can't think of any normal
                                                  family situations among them. Every son hated his father....the only
                                                  thing about Hagen is that I don't feel he was such a striking looking
                                                  dark Remillard, more in Denis' mold I think.

                                                  > Who would all of you want as a director?

                                                  If only Stanley K were still around I think he would have done great
                                                  with Intervention (though not good on pliocene saga). I think he would
                                                  have been able to get the right intensity out of tormented Rogi and
                                                  Don, and illustrated well the conflict in the second partof the book
                                                  between the Sons of Earth and the MPs.

                                                  And how do
                                                  > you think some of the
                                                  > more abstract scenes could be staged--for example,
                                                  > the Dynasty's attempt at
                                                  > the integration of Dennis and Fury?
                                                  >
                                                  > Michaela

                                                  ILM would have a field day....it could end up looking a bit like
                                                  'Tron' though I have a suspicion. I've always imagined that scene as
                                                  like a vast dimension less black plain with webs and clusters of smoky
                                                  light representing the MP energies. That is something that could be
                                                  animated quit
                                                • Leticia Anderson
                                                  ... *laugh* ... Kathryn ... Oh my god just two min ago when I sent that email with the comment about Tron I was thinking of the scenes in Strange Days (which
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Mar 12, 2001
                                                    --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Ian J Greely <ian@t...> wrote:
                                                    > On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:37:18 -0000, you wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >> What about Angelina Jolie for Felice?
                                                    > >
                                                    > >She has the right intensity! And looks great with white blond hair.
                                                    > >
                                                    > Yes, that would work for me...

                                                    *laugh*

                                                    > >> Who would all of you want as a director?
                                                    >
                                                    > Kathryn Bigelow or Ridley Scott...
                                                    >
                                                    > Actually though I'd like a big Ridley Scott production I think
                                                    Kathryn
                                                    > would be more authentic to that female perspective that May seems to
                                                    > work from.
                                                    >
                                                    > regards,
                                                    > Ian

                                                    Oh my god just two min ago when I sent that email with the comment
                                                    about Tron I was thinking of the scenes in Strange Days (which Kathryn
                                                    Bigelow directed) for scenes in a movie which captured what goes on
                                                    inside your head. KB would be a definite good choice for the three
                                                    milieu movies/books (she directed two of my all time faves, Strange
                                                    Days and Point Break).
                                                  • Leticia Anderson
                                                    ... There were several emails on the topic in Deecember, if you search in the archive for lylmik lylmik sexuality or lylmik procreation you get a few
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Mar 12, 2001
                                                      > > We often go back and discuss that scene because
                                                      > > (rousing humours aside) it is a key informative scene
                                                      > > as to how much the Lylmik know and what the Lylmik
                                                      > > are....Holly, do you have any feedback on the replies
                                                      > > to your queries about Lylmik sexuality over the break?
                                                      >
                                                      > Sexuality? I always assumed they were asexual in someway. Is there
                                                      > nothing definitive in any of May's books?
                                                      >
                                                      > Unifex

                                                      There were several emails on the topic in Deecember, if you search in
                                                      the archive for 'lylmik' 'lylmik sexuality' or 'lylmik procreation'
                                                      you get a few messages pulled up. Unless you want to start a new
                                                      thread, it is a fascinating topic!

                                                      L
                                                    • Ian J Greely
                                                      ... *smile* Now where did I put that chocolate sauce... ? Though it occurs that if you had very good FX felice could be played by a more girlie actress.
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Mar 13, 2001
                                                        On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:59:03 -0000, you wrote:

                                                        >--- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Ian J Greely <ian@t...> wrote:
                                                        >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:37:18 -0000, you wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> >> What about Angelina Jolie for Felice?
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> >She has the right intensity! And looks great with white blond hair.
                                                        >> >
                                                        >> Yes, that would work for me...
                                                        >
                                                        >*laugh*

                                                        *smile* Now where did I put that chocolate sauce... ?

                                                        Though it occurs that if you had very good FX felice could be played
                                                        by a more girlie actress. Someone like Natalie Portman.

                                                        The really strange thing about felice being that all the power was
                                                        mental. No physical aspect to it. It strikes me that having somone
                                                        like Angelina would give the character to Felice but it might be more
                                                        fun to watch it played deadpan.

                                                        Felice is, after all, an adolescent girl perpetually. The power she
                                                        has locks her in the retribution mode with little or no concept of
                                                        altruism. Sort of a picture of what Lucille might have been given more
                                                        power and less luck.

                                                        To see a sweet and petite *monster* might be a very powerful image.

                                                        "Off with his head."

                                                        >
                                                        >> >> Who would all of you want as a director?
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Kathryn Bigelow or Ridley Scott...
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Actually though I'd like a big Ridley Scott production I think
                                                        >Kathryn
                                                        >> would be more authentic to that female perspective that May seems to
                                                        >> work from.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> regards,
                                                        >> Ian
                                                        >
                                                        >Oh my god just two min ago when I sent that email with the comment
                                                        >about Tron I was thinking of the scenes in Strange Days (which Kathryn
                                                        >Bigelow directed) for scenes in a movie which captured what goes on
                                                        >inside your head. KB would be a definite good choice for the three
                                                        >milieu movies/books (she directed two of my all time faves, Strange
                                                        >Days and Point Break).
                                                        I watched Strange Days again a few days ago and they showed "Near
                                                        Dark" on TV here over the weekend. Bigelow has a very deft hand a
                                                        portraying women of will. Something that is rare in the movie
                                                        industry.

                                                        The May books have women as pivotal characters and being able to treat
                                                        women of will (not to mention power) sensitively would be needed to
                                                        stop the book becoming "Scanners V Star Wars." True to history May has
                                                        women (and love) as catalyst for major dramatic movement in the story.

                                                        There are very powerful women around the story but a male hegamony
                                                        prevents them from having much effect until they pair with one of the
                                                        main (male) protaganists. In a (written) story this is more easily
                                                        done than in cinema... The movie could do with a few well fleshed out
                                                        female characters like Bigelow has in Strange Days.

                                                        regards,
                                                        Ian
                                                      • Leticia Anderson
                                                        ... The only problem with Angeline would be that she is so physically dominating and Felice is always, as you have mentioned, emphasised as being tiny and
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Mar 13, 2001
                                                          >Though it occurs that if you had very good FX felice could be played
                                                          >by a more girlie actress. Someone like Natalie Portman.

                                                          The only problem with Angeline would be that she is so physically
                                                          dominating and Felice is always, as you have mentioned, emphasised as
                                                          being tiny and petite. Which is obviously where some of the scariness
                                                          of her character comes from - that such violence could be fostered in
                                                          such a delicate outer shell.
                                                          Angelina looks the part but after all is going to be Lara Croft and
                                                          suits that role perfectly. Lara is a much more traditional female
                                                          macho - tall, glam, well built, tough as a man but still very much a
                                                          woman. Felice is in a different mold, as you called her she is a
                                                          'perpetual adolescent' which means an actress playing her would always
                                                          have to play down the overtly sexual facets of being such a powerful
                                                          huntress type femme. Felice is not a woman or a man and is too knowing
                                                          to be a child - a difficult role to play.

                                                          > The really strange thing about felice being that all the power was
                                                          >mental. No physical aspect to it.

                                                          Ummmm don't know if I agree there. She is always remarked upon as
                                                          having a superhuman strength made even more daunting by her small
                                                          stature. Though she does not dominate a scene or event by her physical
                                                          stature but by her mental aspect (or malice or strength of character
                                                          alternatively) she does still possess that unearthly strength. I am
                                                          curious as to what would give rise to such strength. Would it be a
                                                          mind over matter issue, or perhaps related to her altered pain
                                                          circuits? If all of us had no fear of pain, or even welcomed it would
                                                          we experience the same lifting of limitations upon our perceived
                                                          strength or endurance? I think yes to a certain extent but maybe there
                                                          is still something exceptional about Felice's strength e.g. in Arcadie
                                                          when she breaks the arm of the fellow hockey player without much
                                                          effort at all.
                                                          Perhaps also it is simply that we do not expect to see a female have
                                                          the same level of control over their body that Felice does and that
                                                          perhaps this is a source of power for her too. If you look at someone
                                                          like Bruce Lee, even in interviews you can see when he moves his hands
                                                          justhow many muscles are moving, much like in talented musicians. The
                                                          ability to manipulate what they have gives them a seemingly superhuman
                                                          strength....

                                                          > Sort of a picture of what Lucille might have been given more
                                                          > power and less luck.

                                                          That is a scary thought. I've always been very fond of Lucille and it
                                                          is scary to think of her as being like that but not so different to
                                                          imagine. Excellent comparision! You know though I think I have
                                                          wondered at times that she didn't go off the edge when Rogi broke up
                                                          her relationship with her doctor. She seemed so brittle by that point
                                                          in the story that I could imagine her reacting in a very obsessive
                                                          way, calling down fire in vengeance or some such.


                                                          >I watched Strange Days again a few days ago and they showed "Near
                                                          >Dark" on TV here over the weekend. Bigelow has a very deft hand a
                                                          >portraying women of will. Something that is rare in the movie
                                                          >industry.
                                                          >There are very powerful women around the story but a male hegamony
                                                          >prevents them from having much effect until they pair with one of the
                                                          >main (male) protaganists. In a (written) story this is more easily
                                                          >done than in cinema... The movie could do with a few well fleshed out
                                                          >female characters like Bigelow has in Strange Days.

                                                          Wow! I have to go away and think about this one
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