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Felice's French Connection I

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  • Alix/PDW
    Here’s a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my ISP is out due to one of Gaia’s dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 26, 2004
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        Here�s a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my ISP is out due to one of Gaia�s dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and I can�t double-check most Web sources as I go. (Is that the laughing tinkle of sleet I hear?) �

        No, scratch �brief� � It won�t work.

       

      Caveat lector

        CAVEAT: There�s no question here of defining Felice as either Celtic or not Celtic. All of the principal characters among the time travelers include a variety of mythic, ethnic and historical associations. Do remember that JM�s mythic choices are generally pre-Christian and pre-Roman. (Witness the general lack of Arthurian references � and for all most of us know, our Pony-girl�s origin could go all the way back, paralleling the Romans, to the original Indo-Iranian pea soup. [Any Nostratic scholars here?]. Anyone want to quibble any more etymology with JM? On the face of it, �Lady Epone� is patently absurd, since the words lord and lady never existed before Old English, or in any other language than English, save one offshoot in Old Icelandic. The whole lord/lady shtick requires the use of one of the obsolete English characters, yogh [looks like a zee/zed with a long rounded tail on it, and exists in no font I can locate at present]. But what can you do, in a larger English narrative? Ignore Johnson and the makers of �ynke-pot terms�? Laugh at Grimm�s Law?  Give a late, playful salute to the various Celtic languages, confounding academics and enriching readers? Allow, more soberly, the reminder from T.S. Eliot that �All is always now�? You betcha.

        Amerie, recall, is of Italian extraction, and thus not eligible for a Celtic persona, since [proto-]Italy and [proto-]Greece are the only two European cultures not included in the Celtic world at its height, in the centuries between the Hallstatt [or was it La Tene?] culture and the rise of the Roman Empire. The Celtic world, recall, stretched from the Fertile Crescent throughout Western Europe and the British Isles, including even the Galatia (in present-day Northern Turkey) of the New Testament�i.e., �Celtic� covers quite a lot of territory.

       

      Psyches and sickos

        Then, too, there are more issues than just ethnic and national identity on the plate we are being served. There are the profound psychological issues of Jung (principally) and others including Freud and Bettelheim; of the whole fantastic lot from the 19th century, including Darwin and Marx; of natural origins and influences from plate tectonics to heavy metal allergies (remember, �Stein� translates as �Stone�), from hunger among plankton to greed among ramapithecines and appetite among humans and humanoids (try on the moral comparison between Aiken Drum and Culluket for size). JM promised us �at least six levels� of interpretation, and she wasn�t kidding.

        And then there�s religion, and spirituality, and just how it is that �The law separates us from the spirit,� [I Timothy, verse ?] � the valorous vision of Teilhard de Chardin and his ever-evolving universal harmony, the sacred and the secular united at last; Eliot�s unflinching examination of eternity from the Wasteland, and his own family�s creaking garden gate � and the most awful, reeking villainies of an organized church corrupted by the quest for political and material power, by murderous greed, known commonly today as the Inquisitions.

       

      Money talks, torture walks

        We tend to think of the late Middle Ages as the height of the church�s overblown and irrational assault on heresy and Torquemada as its leading ideologue and persecutor, with the Court of Inquisition fading ungently to a stern weapon used on anyone who dared to challenge Catholic doctrine, and reduced now to a number of genuinely funny bits from Monty Python. In fact, it was in the year of Torquemada�s death, 1498, that a bull issued by Pope Innocent VIII commissioned the Malleus Maleficarum (The Witches� Hammer), sending two German priests out to gather examples of the practice of witchcraft � and not just coincidentally to aid in clearing remaining pockets of paganism. (The stag-horned Celtic god Cernunnos is considered by many to be the model of the image of Satan we retain even today.) The resulting volume with its fantastic tales of evildoing became a lawbook used in secular courts as well as ecclesiastical ones on the eve of the Protestant Reformation, and by Protestants as well as Roman Catholics. Torture became not just common, but the officially accepted method of �questioning� both heretics and more specifically witches, because that was the only way to counter to powerful aid of the devil.

        Historians tell us that some 90 percent of the victims of the Inquisition in this era were women. (Did a farmer lose his cattle and see the fat, healthy ones held a mile or so away by a modestly well-off widow who was also well versed in herbal folk medicine? Why, she must be a witch, and the annihilator of his own livestock; she must stand before the Court of Inquistion, and face the result of her evildoing. Did the terrible plagues that began in the Middles Ages reach their black fingers into the shoemaker�s town or county? Why, the healthy young mother with her healthy babes a few streets away must have consorted with the Devil! Had she corrupted her children? It was a danger so serious that they must be tied by the hands to stakes, their heads held back so they would be forced to watch their mother burn to death at the larger stake. The universal nightmare grew, and grew, and grew. Its remnants remain in the human mythos: the horned Satan, the sulphurous and eternal fires of hell, the evil witch flying to escape on the kitchen broom.

        The practice began slowly to wane, starting with the more sophisticated urban and theological centers of Southern Europe, especially with the need to pour resources of the Roman Church into the Counter-Reformation. In the more refined, even humanistic, courts of the High Renaissance, the moneyed classes could afford a better brand of justice, and families were likelier to defend an aunt�s or sister�s share of the family fortune. (The Roman Catholic Church continued to support the theological validity of the Malleus Maleficarum [see the writings of theologian Montague Summers and others] as late as the mid-1950s, so great was the depth of fear that went into its creation.

       

      Dramatis personae

        Our stage is set in time at the inception of one of the most glittering of these courts, that of the infant King Louis XIV in France. We are in a small, unremarkable city in France.

      --  Enter the good, faithful Catholic folk of the town, with its many ordinary people, its typical contingent of malcontents, its sprinkling of proud French aristocrats, and its clutch of Ursuline nuns, led by the somewhat high-strung Sr. Jeanne. 

      --  Enter the handsome, learned, witty, vain, arrogant (and ultimately incredibly stupid) priest and womanizer, Urbain Grandier.

      --  Enter, at a regal distance, one of the most powerful and politically corrupt churchmen in European history, Armand-Jean du Plessis, Duc de Richelieu and cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. All he really wants is control of France.

      --  Enter, cautiously, the family of Jean Claude Landry, sometime residents here, and then, quite suddenly, of the distant Acadie (now known as Nova Scotia), who will leave us a mystery to solve. With them is a cousin who has written a noted treatise on witchcraft.

       

      [If we look into the shadows just offstage, we can see a brilliant, bespectacled time traveler, a chronicler of piercing wit, but only an Englishman, and therefore insignificant. Another you say, grinning puckishly? But no, it was his BROTHER that was named Julian, wasn�t it?]

       

      What are they all waiting for? Why, for hell to break loose once more�

       

      WELCOME TO LOUDUN!! HAVE A NICE DAY!!

       

      [Next installment: The Devil You Say]

       

      Oh OK, I�m stalling until I can get all the Landry files and find my Huxley and assorted bits of geography. (I DID do the Malleus Maleficarum stuff from memory.) And there really IS a mystery to solve, but we have to get to Nova Scotia first, and on the same page, to join the hunt, OK? No? How about a nice BBC shot of a chaliko being attacked by bear dogs while you wait?

       

      Alix

    • Maurice Thomas
      J Applaude, Alix. The Malleus from memory is entirely apposite; the ourobouros of May s work becomes all the more circular when we note that the authors of
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 26, 2004
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        J'Applaude, Alix.  The Malleus from memory is entirely apposite; the ourobouros of May's work becomes all the more circular when we note that the authors of said Hammer of Evil were indeed a pair of Jesuits named Sprenger and Kramer.  There is even a Van Der Graaf Generator song celebratring (mourning) the publication of this stupid evil book.  They date it at 1486, but then they went to Manchester Uni in the sixties.
         
        Keith Thomas' seminal work "Religion and the Decline of Magic" tells us more of these medieval nonsenses, and I sense by the inclusion of your "witchcraft by guilt" hypothesis, that you have already read the good prof's work, or enjoyed Boyer and Nissenbaum's dissection of the astonishing injustice at Salem.
         
        However, it has never before occurred to me to cast Felice as la Pucelle.  Of course she is.  Damn.  Bless you.
         
        I look forward to part two.
         
        Cheers
         
        Maurice
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Alix/PDW [mailto:alixnc@...]
        Sent: 26 January 2004 08:47
        To: JMD
        Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Felice's French Connection I

          Heres a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my ISP is out due to one of Gaias dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and I cant double-check most Web sources as I go. (Is that the laughing tinkle of sleet I hear?) 

          No, scratch brief  It wont work.

         

        Caveat lector

          CAVEAT: Theres no question here of defining Felice as either Celtic or not Celtic. All of the principal characters among the time travelers include a variety of mythic, ethnic and historical associations. Do remember that JMs mythic choices are generally pre-Christian and pre-Roman. (Witness the general lack of Arthurian references  and for all most of us know, our Pony-girls origin could go all the way back, paralleling the Romans, to the original Indo-Iranian pea soup. [Any Nostratic scholars here?]. Anyone want to quibble any more etymology with JM? On the face of it, Lady Epone is patently absurd, since the words lord and lady never existed before Old English, or in any other language than English, save one offshoot in Old Icelandic. The whole lord/lady shtick requires the use of one of the obsolete English characters, yogh [looks like a zee/zed with a long rounded tail on it, and exists in no font I can locate at present]. But what can you do, in a larger English narrative? Ignore Johnson and the makers of ynke-pot terms? Laugh at Grimms Law?  Give a late, playful salute to the various Celtic languages, confounding academics and enriching readers? Allow, more soberly, the reminder from T.S. Eliot that All is always now? You betcha.

          Amerie, recall, is of Italian extraction, and thus not eligible for a Celtic persona, since [proto-]Italy and [proto-]Greece are the only two European cultures not included in the Celtic world at its height, in the centuries between the Hallstatt [or was it La Tene?] culture and the rise of the Roman Empire. The Celtic world, recall, stretched from the Fertile Crescent throughout Western Europe and the British Isles, including even the Galatia (in present-day Northern Turkey) of the New Testamenti.e., Celtic covers quite a lot of territory.

         

        Psyches and sickos

          Then, too, there are more issues than just ethnic and national identity on the plate we are being served. There are the profound psychological issues of Jung (principally) and others including Freud and Bettelheim; of the whole fantastic lot from the 19th century, including Darwin and Marx; of natural origins and influences from plate tectonics to heavy metal allergies (remember, Stein translates as Stone), from hunger among plankton to greed among ramapithecines and appetite among humans and humanoids (try on the moral comparison between Aiken Drum and Culluket for size). JM promised us at least six levels of interpretation, and she wasnt kidding.

          And then theres religion, and spirituality, and just how it is that The law separates us from the spirit, [I Timothy, verse ?]  the valorous vision of Teilhard de Chardin and his ever-evolving universal harmony, the sacred and the secular united at last; Eliots unflinching examination of eternity from the Wasteland, and his own familys creaking garden gate  and the most awful, reeking villainies of an organized church corrupted by the quest for political and material power, by murderous greed, known commonly today as the Inquisitions.

         

        Money talks, torture walks

          We tend to think of the late Middle Ages as the height of the churchs overblown and irrational assault on heresy and Torquemada as its leading ideologue and persecutor, with the Court of Inquisition fading ungently to a stern weapon used on anyone who dared to challenge Catholic doctrine, and reduced now to a number of genuinely funny bits from Monty Python. In fact, it was in the year of Torquemadas death, 1498, that a bull issued by Pope Innocent VIII commissioned the Malleus Maleficarum (The Witches Hammer), sending two German priests out to gather examples of the practice of witchcraft  and not just coincidentally to aid in clearing remaining pockets of paganism. (The stag-horned Celtic god Cernunnos is considered by many to be the model of the image of Satan we retain even today.) The resulting volume with its fantastic tales of evildoing became a lawbook used in secular courts as well as ecclesiastical ones on the eve of the Protestant Reformation, and by Protestants as well as Roman Catholics. Torture became not just common, but the officially accepted method of questioning both heretics and more specifically witches, because that was the only way to counter to powerful aid of the devil.

          Historians tell us that some 90 percent of the victims of the Inquisition in this era were women. (Did a farmer lose his cattle and see the fat, healthy ones held a mile or so away by a modestly well-off widow who was also well versed in herbal folk medicine? Why, she must be a witch, and the annihilator of his own livestock; she must stand before the Court of Inquistion, and face the result of her evildoing. Did the terrible plagues that began in the Middles Ages reach their black fingers into the shoemakers town or county? Why, the healthy young mother with her healthy babes a few streets away must have consorted with the Devil! Had she corrupted her children? It was a danger so serious that they must be tied by the hands to stakes, their heads held back so they would be forced to watch their mother burn to death at the larger stake. The universal nightmare grew, and grew, and grew. Its remnants remain in the human mythos: the horned Satan, the sulphurous and eternal fires of hell, the evil witch flying to escape on the kitchen broom.

          The practice began slowly to wane, starting with the more sophisticated urban and theological centers of Southern Europe, especially with the need to pour resources of the Roman Church into the Counter-Reformation. In the more refined, even humanistic, courts of the High Renaissance, the moneyed classes could afford a better brand of justice, and families were likelier to defend an aunts or sisters share of the family fortune. (The Roman Catholic Church continued to support the theological validity of the Malleus Maleficarum [see the writings of theologian Montague Summers and others] as late as the mid-1950s, so great was the depth of fear that went into its creation.

         

        Dramatis personae

          Our stage is set in time at the inception of one of the most glittering of these courts, that of the infant King Louis XIV in France. We are in a small, unremarkable city in France.

        --  Enter the good, faithful Catholic folk of the town, with its many ordinary people, its typical contingent of malcontents, its sprinkling of proud French aristocrats, and its clutch of Ursuline nuns, led by the somewhat high-strung Sr. Jeanne. 

        --  Enter the handsome, learned, witty, vain, arrogant (and ultimately incredibly stupid) priest and womanizer, Urbain Grandier.

        --  Enter, at a regal distance, one of the most powerful and politically corrupt churchmen in European history, Armand-Jean du Plessis, Duc de Richelieu and cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. All he really wants is control of France.

        --  Enter, cautiously, the family of Jean Claude Landry, sometime residents here, and then, quite suddenly, of the distant Acadie (now known as Nova Scotia), who will leave us a mystery to solve. With them is a cousin who has written a noted treatise on witchcraft.

         

        [If we look into the shadows just offstage, we can see a brilliant, bespectacled time traveler, a chronicler of piercing wit, but only an Englishman, and therefore insignificant. Another you say, grinning puckishly? But no, it was his BROTHER that was named Julian, wasnt it?]

         

        What are they all waiting for? Why, for hell to break loose once more

         

        WELCOME TO LOUDUN!! HAVE A NICE DAY!!

         

        [Next installment: The Devil You Say]

         

        Oh OK, Im stalling until I can get all the Landry files and find my Huxley and assorted bits of geography. (I DID do the Malleus Maleficarum stuff from memory.) And there really IS a mystery to solve, but we have to get to Nova Scotia first, and on the same page, to join the hunt, OK? No? How about a nice BBC shot of a chaliko being attacked by bear dogs while you wait?

         

        Alix




        Yahoo! Groups Links

      • Geoff Norfolk
        Felice as Joan of Arc......? Interesting ... From: Maurice Thomas To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: RE:
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 27, 2004
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          Felice as Joan of Arc......?
          Interesting
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [Julian-May-discuss] Felice's French Connection I

          J'Applaude, Alix.  The Malleus from memory is entirely apposite; the ourobouros of May's work becomes all the more circular when we note that the authors of said Hammer of Evil were indeed a pair of Jesuits named Sprenger and Kramer.  There is even a Van Der Graaf Generator song celebratring (mourning) the publication of this stupid evil book.  They date it at 1486, but then they went to Manchester Uni in the sixties.
           
          Keith Thomas' seminal work "Religion and the Decline of Magic" tells us more of these medieval nonsenses, and I sense by the inclusion of your "witchcraft by guilt" hypothesis, that you have already read the good prof's work, or enjoyed Boyer and Nissenbaum's dissection of the astonishing injustice at Salem.
           
          However, it has never before occurred to me to cast Felice as la Pucelle.  Of course she is.  Damn.  Bless you.
           
          I look forward to part two.
           
          Cheers
           
          Maurice
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Alix/PDW [mailto:alixnc@...]
          Sent: 26 January 2004 08:47
          To: JMD
          Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Felice's French Connection I

            Heres a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my ISP is out due to one of Gaias dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and I cant double-check most Web sources as I go. (Is that the laughing tinkle of sleet I hear?) 

            No, scratch brief  It wont work.

           

          Caveat lector

            CAVEAT: Theres no question here of defining Felice as either Celtic or not Celtic. All of the principal characters among the time travelers include a variety of mythic, ethnic and historical associations. Do remember that JMs mythic choices are generally pre-Christian and pre-Roman. (Witness the general lack of Arthurian references  and for all most of us know, our Pony-girls origin could go all the way back, paralleling the Romans, to the original Indo-Iranian pea soup. [Any Nostratic scholars here?]. Anyone want to quibble any more etymology with JM? On the face of it, Lady Epone is patently absurd, since the words lord and lady never existed before Old English, or in any other language than English, save one offshoot in Old Icelandic. The whole lord/lady shtick requires the use of one of the obsolete English characters, yogh [looks like a zee/zed with a long rounded tail on it, and exists in no font I can locate at present]. But what can you do, in a larger English narrative? Ignore Johnson and the makers of ynke-pot terms? Laugh at Grimms Law?  Give a late, playful salute to the various Celtic languages, confounding academics and enriching readers? Allow, more soberly, the reminder from T.S. Eliot that All is always now? You betcha.

            Amerie, recall, is of Italian extraction, and thus not eligible for a Celtic persona, since [proto-]Italy and [proto-]Greece are the only two European cultures not included in the Celtic world at its height, in the centuries between the Hallstatt [or was it La Tene?] culture and the rise of the Roman Empire. The Celtic world, recall, stretched from the Fertile Crescent throughout Western Europe and the British Isles, including even the Galatia (in present-day Northern Turkey) of the New Testamenti.e., Celtic covers quite a lot of territory.

           

          Psyches and sickos

            Then, too, there are more issues than just ethnic and national identity on the plate we are being served. There are the profound psychological issues of Jung (principally) and others including Freud and Bettelheim; of the whole fantastic lot from the 19th century, including Darwin and Marx; of natural origins and influences from plate tectonics to heavy metal allergies (remember, Stein translates as Stone), from hunger among plankton to greed among ramapithecines and appetite among humans and humanoids (try on the moral comparison between Aiken Drum and Culluket for size). JM promised us at least six levels of interpretation, and she wasnt kidding.

            And then theres religion, and spirituality, and just how it is that The law separates us from the spirit, [I Timothy, verse ?]  the valorous vision of Teilhard de Chardin and his ever-evolving universal harmony, the sacred and the secular united at last; Eliots unflinching examination of eternity from the Wasteland, and his own familys creaking garden gate  and the most awful, reeking villainies of an organized church corrupted by the quest for political and material power, by murderous greed, known commonly today as the Inquisitions.

           

          Money talks, torture walks

            We tend to think of the late Middle Ages as the height of the churchs overblown and irrational assault on heresy and Torquemada as its leading ideologue and persecutor, with the Court of Inquisition fading ungently to a stern weapon used on anyone who dared to challenge Catholic doctrine, and reduced now to a number of genuinely funny bits from Monty Python. In fact, it was in the year of Torquemadas death, 1498, that a bull issued by Pope Innocent VIII commissioned the Malleus Maleficarum (The Witches Hammer), sending two German priests out to gather examples of the practice of witchcraft  and not just coincidentally to aid in clearing remaining pockets of paganism. (The stag-horned Celtic god Cernunnos is considered by many to be the model of the image of Satan we retain even today.) The resulting volume with its fantastic tales of evildoing became a lawbook used in secular courts as well as ecclesiastical ones on the eve of the Protestant Reformation, and by Protestants as well as Roman Catholics. Torture became not just common, but the officially accepted method of questioning both heretics and more specifically witches, because that was the only way to counter to powerful aid of the devil.

            Historians tell us that some 90 percent of the victims of the Inquisition in this era were women. (Did a farmer lose his cattle and see the fat, healthy ones held a mile or so away by a modestly well-off widow who was also well versed in herbal folk medicine? Why, she must be a witch, and the annihilator of his own livestock; she must stand before the Court of Inquistion, and face the result of her evildoing. Did the terrible plagues that began in the Middles Ages reach their black fingers into the shoemakers town or county? Why, the healthy young mother with her healthy babes a few streets away must have consorted with the Devil! Had she corrupted her children? It was a danger so serious that they must be tied by the hands to stakes, their heads held back so they would be forced to watch their mother burn to death at the larger stake. The universal nightmare grew, and grew, and grew. Its remnants remain in the human mythos: the horned Satan, the sulphurous and eternal fires of hell, the evil witch flying to escape on the kitchen broom.

            The practice began slowly to wane, starting with the more sophisticated urban and theological centers of Southern Europe, especially with the need to pour resources of the Roman Church into the Counter-Reformation. In the more refined, even humanistic, courts of the High Renaissance, the moneyed classes could afford a better brand of justice, and families were likelier to defend an aunts or sisters share of the family fortune. (The Roman Catholic Church continued to support the theological validity of the Malleus Maleficarum [see the writings of theologian Montague Summers and others] as late as the mid-1950s, so great was the depth of fear that went into its creation.

           

          Dramatis personae

            Our stage is set in time at the inception of one of the most glittering of these courts, that of the infant King Louis XIV in France. We are in a small, unremarkable city in France.

          --  Enter the good, faithful Catholic folk of the town, with its many ordinary people, its typical contingent of malcontents, its sprinkling of proud French aristocrats, and its clutch of Ursuline nuns, led by the somewhat high-strung Sr. Jeanne. 

          --  Enter the handsome, learned, witty, vain, arrogant (and ultimately incredibly stupid) priest and womanizer, Urbain Grandier.

          --  Enter, at a regal distance, one of the most powerful and politically corrupt churchmen in European history, Armand-Jean du Plessis, Duc de Richelieu and cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. All he really wants is control of France.

          --  Enter, cautiously, the family of Jean Claude Landry, sometime residents here, and then, quite suddenly, of the distant Acadie (now known as Nova Scotia), who will leave us a mystery to solve. With them is a cousin who has written a noted treatise on witchcraft.

           

          [If we look into the shadows just offstage, we can see a brilliant, bespectacled time traveler, a chronicler of piercing wit, but only an Englishman, and therefore insignificant. Another you say, grinning puckishly? But no, it was his BROTHER that was named Julian, wasnt it?]

           

          What are they all waiting for? Why, for hell to break loose once more

           

          WELCOME TO LOUDUN!! HAVE A NICE DAY!!

           

          [Next installment: The Devil You Say]

           

          Oh OK, Im stalling until I can get all the Landry files and find my Huxley and assorted bits of geography. (I DID do the Malleus Maleficarum stuff from memory.) And there really IS a mystery to solve, but we have to get to Nova Scotia first, and on the same page, to join the hunt, OK? No? How about a nice BBC shot of a chaliko being attacked by bear dogs while you wait?

           

          Alix




          Yahoo! Groups Links




          Yahoo! Groups Links

        • Nicolette Lewer
          Hi Alix, Thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the late Middle Ages. I never thought to equate Felice with The Maid of Orleans but with her listening
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 29, 2004
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            Hi Alix,

            Thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the late Middle Ages. I never thought to
            equate Felice with 'The Maid of Orleans' but with her listening to her 'devils' it becomes
            blindingly obvious.....please keep writing!

            Incidentally, I'm reading an enjoyable time-travel series by Eric Flint at the moment
            (consisting of two books so far) that might appeal to JM fans, about a little working-
            class American town plonked down in 17th century Europe during the Thirty Years War.
            Ouch.

            Not only do they have to cope with the lack of cable TV and what happens when the
            coffee runs out, but also with the plottings of the Inquisition and Cardinal Duc de
            Richelieu as well. There is much opening of the can of Whoop-Ass(TM) (heh, heh) and
            '1632' is the first book if this sounds interesting!

            High Thoughts
            - Nicolette :-)


            On 26 Jan 2004 at 0:47, Alix/PDW wrote:

            >
            > Here’s a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my ISP is out due to one of
            > Gaia’s dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and I can’t double-check most Web sources
            > as I go. (Is that the laughing tinkle of sleet I hear?) …
            > No, scratch “brief” … It won’t work.
            >
          • Maurice Thomas
            I must apologise for the misconception I appear to have spawned from my misreading of the original post regarding Loudun. I feel I have demonstrated that a
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 3, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              I must apologise for the misconception I appear to have spawned from my
              misreading of the original post regarding Loudun. I feel I have
              demonstrated that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

              What I did was read too briskly the mention of Sr. Jeanne, and overlay my
              only knowledge of the word-shape - that is to say, St. Jeanne. Therefore I
              succeeded in transposing the Ursuline Sister Jeanne of the 17th century, and
              the Pucelle of the 15th. Confound my whiskers and set my arse afire.

              Trouble is, both hear voices, and act rashly as a result. The more subtle
              part with the nun is that she is frankly obsessed with a charismatic,
              dashing Jesuit father named Grandier, whom she sets out to destroy (these
              obsessions are wrong wrong WRONG). In this context, of course, the Felice
              parallel is striking - as a conflation of Amerie and Cullucket, Grandier is
              indeed a splendid object of desire/loathing for a repressed woman who hears
              voices.

              Too much to say, too little time. I've to be at work now - look how early
              I'm up !

              Cheers
              Maurice


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Nicolette Lewer [mailto:n.lewer@...]
              Sent: 29 January 2004 23:25
              To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Felice's French Connection I


              Hi Alix,

              Thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the late Middle Ages. I never
              thought to
              equate Felice with 'The Maid of Orleans' but with her listening to her
              'devils' it becomes
              blindingly obvious.....please keep writing!

              Incidentally, I'm reading an enjoyable time-travel series by Eric Flint at
              the moment
              (consisting of two books so far) that might appeal to JM fans, about a
              little working-
              class American town plonked down in 17th century Europe during the Thirty
              Years War.
              Ouch.

              Not only do they have to cope with the lack of cable TV and what happens
              when the
              coffee runs out, but also with the plottings of the Inquisition and Cardinal
              Duc de
              Richelieu as well. There is much opening of the can of Whoop-Ass(TM) (heh,
              heh) and
              '1632' is the first book if this sounds interesting!

              High Thoughts
              - Nicolette :-)


              On 26 Jan 2004 at 0:47, Alix/PDW wrote:

              >
              > Here’s a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my
              ISP is out due to one of
              > Gaia’s dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and I can’t
              double-check most Web sources
              > as I go. (Is that the laughing tinkle of sleet I hear?) …
              > No, scratch “brief” … It won’t work.
              >





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            • Cleomadjai
              It sounds a bit like Elizabeth and Marc too. Altho she goes on to be his saving grace she did want to destroy him originally to save herself and her ice
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 4, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                It sounds a bit like Elizabeth and Marc too.  Altho she goes on to be his 'saving grace' she did want to destroy him originally to 'save' herself and her ice kingdom.
                 
                Cleo
                 
                Cleo

                Maurice Thomas <mozzer@...> wrote:
                I must apologise for the misconception I appear to have spawned from my
                misreading of the original post regarding Loudun.  I feel I have
                demonstrated that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

                What I did was read too briskly the mention of Sr. Jeanne, and overlay my
                only knowledge of the word-shape - that is to say, St. Jeanne.  Therefore I
                succeeded in transposing the Ursuline Sister Jeanne of the 17th century, and
                the Pucelle of the 15th.  Confound my whiskers and set my arse afire.

                Trouble is, both hear voices, and act rashly as a result.  The more subtle
                part with the nun is that she is frankly obsessed with a charismatic,
                dashing Jesuit father named Grandier, whom she sets out to destroy (these
                obsessions are wrong wrong WRONG).  In this context, of course, the Felice
                parallel is striking - as a conflation of Amerie and Cullucket, Grandier is
                indeed a splendid object of desire/loathing for a repressed woman who hears
                voices.

                Too much to say, too little time. I've to be at work now - look how early
                I'm up !

                Cheers
                Maurice


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Nicolette Lewer [mailto:n.lewer@...]
                Sent: 29 January 2004 23:25
                To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Felice's French Connection I


                Hi Alix,

                Thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the late Middle Ages. I never
                thought to
                equate Felice with 'The Maid of Orleans' but with her listening to her
                'devils' it becomes
                blindingly obvious.....please keep writing!

                Incidentally, I'm reading an enjoyable time-travel series by Eric Flint at
                the moment
                (consisting of two books so far) that might appeal to JM fans, about a
                little working-
                class American town plonked down in 17th century Europe during the Thirty
                Years War.
                Ouch.

                Not only do they have to cope with the lack of cable TV and what happens
                when the
                coffee runs out, but also with the plottings of the Inquisition and Cardinal
                Duc de
                Richelieu as well. There is much opening of the can of Whoop-Ass(TM) (heh,
                heh) and
                '1632' is the first book if this sounds interesting!

                High Thoughts
                - Nicolette :-)


                On 26 Jan 2004 at 0:47, Alix/PDW wrote:

                >
                >  Here’s a brief sketch of the Felice/French connection (brief because my
                ISP is out due to one of
                > Gaia’s dirtier tricks, snow glazed with freezing rain) and I can’t
                double-check most Web sources
                > as I go. (Is that the laughing tinkle of sleet I hear?) …
                >  No, scratch “brief” … It won’t work.
                >





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