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Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Red Dwarf

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  • Leticia Anderson
    ... Yes, they run a bit behind time but the ABC shows it. It used to be on very late as well, about 11pm on Monday night or something like that. I don t know
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 31, 2000
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      > I don't know if Oz gets Red Dwarf - I havn't seen
      > it advertised but will be horrified if we don't
      > get it. Letitia - have you ever heard of/seen
      > Red Dwarf on TV here?

      Yes, they run a bit behind time but the ABC shows it.
      It used to be on very late as well, about 11pm on
      Monday night or something like that. I don't know if
      it has been on lately - I haven't watched much TV for
      over a year.


      > By the way, (on topic) does anyone remember if a
      > reason was given why Mercy turned out to be a
      > Tanu

      Lord Greggy Donnet did a genetic assay of her. It
      turned out that she had a greater proportion of Tanu
      or Tanu look-alike genes that she did human. I guess
      it would be like she was 99.9% the same as a Tanu and
      normal humans were only 98% similar. Something like
      that anyway.
      The impression that one gets from the EXILE series is
      that under Aiken's kingship the Tanu lived on for
      millennia in their Many Coloured Land. Nothing in
      their way of life ever realy changed, but the world
      around them very gradually did. I would speculate that
      the human Lowlives, who could not be controlled by the
      Tanu or the Firvulag after Group Green's discoveries
      about iron etc, grew and spread across Europe. The
      ramas would have evolved independently into humanoids,
      and probably bred with the remnants of the Milieu
      Timetravellers during the Ice Aes. Following the Ice
      Ages, the Tanu would have melted into the edges of
      society I would imagine. They would not ride in Hunts
      across the sky or build towering cities. Their society
      would splinter gradually. BUt their traditional enmity
      towrds the Firvulag would have continued. They would
      still have been somewhat powerful figures to the
      humans they cohabited Europe with, particularly when
      humans once again lost the use of iron. But with the
      rediscovery of iron they would have started to fade
      into legend. The events narrated in EXILES would have
      been part of Tanu legend forever after, and some of
      the Tanu characters in the novel may foreseeably have
      survived into this era (AD or CE).
      They would have retreated to remote, mystical places
      such as Brittany and Ireland. In Ireland, partcularly,
      their legends remained - the beautiful Sidhe and their
      magical powers, the horrible Firbolg who were their
      ancenstral enemy. Nuada Silverhand and Shining Lugh
      Long-Hand who slew Balor One-Eye with a catapault.
      Then the Sidhe began to drift into obscurity, so that
      only a few heroes ever saw them again. Amairgin and
      Finn Mac Cool supposedley married women of the Sidhe,
      so they were still closely enough linked to
      interbreed. But gradually they passed away. leaving
      nothing but snatches of song, like the 'Londonderry
      Air' to remind us that they had ever existed.
      That, and a genetic heritage. Even though most Tanu
      were latent, enough of their genes passing into the
      human gene pool over time resulted in the _human_
      population of earth having a much higher latent racial
      metapsychic profile than they would have if the Tanu
      had never come. I think that if an individual had a
      high number of those Tanu genes which granted
      metapsychic precocity to the human race, then they
      might have been very unhappy individuals unless they
      were operant, well-integrated humans.
      An operant like Denis Remillard would be a
      well-adjusted, respected, contributing member of
      society. Imagine the powers of a Marc, or a Jack,
      trapped inside their head. People like Aiken, Mercy
      and Felice carried the enormous heritage of
      metapsychic power but could not use it. Instead they
      became deviants, criminals (c.f. Kieran too in a way)
      or misfits. The strange Tanu genes which gave the
      operant members of society their status and
      satisfaction gave some of the latents nothing but
      discontent, longing (almost a hiraeth I think Avalon
      ;) ) and an inabiltity to fit into *boring* Milieu
      society.
      Thus, many of those who were succesfully integrated
      into Tanu society would have been those who,
      obviously, had latent MP ability. According to my
      reading, the reason they carried genes for latency at
      all was because they were descended from Tanu (and,
      ironically, probably from themselves). And those same
      Tanu genes produced certain misfit characteristics
      which prevented their integration into Milieu society
      but made them infinitely suited to the Pliocene. These
      were the longing for archaic tradition, violence,
      feudalism etc - all anachronisms in the Galactic age.
      Any comments?
      leticia

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    • Leticia Anderson
      (I ve read ... Same. But all mythology interests me - I m actually going to start a mythology category on Triviawars on day! I ve already got the application
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 2 1:07 AM
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        (I've read
        > more about greek mythology than celtic), but it
        > all sounds very plausible.

        Same. But all mythology interests me - I'm actually
        going to start a mythology category on Triviawars on
        day! I've already got the application but haven't been
        bothered sending it in.


        > I have noticed that Julian does like to write
        > about misfits in society - hmmm interesting -
        > Perseus Spur also seems to focus on misfits and
        > criminals. Perhaps people identify more with the
        > misfits than the heroes. I know I find them more
        > interesting. Flawed personalities are certainly
        > more fascinating than "normal" ones. The funny
        > thing is I didn't find Marc as compelling a
        > character as Felice or Fury <shudder>

        There is a line in MANY COLOURED LAND which sums it up
        pretty well. Mercy is talking about the reasons she is
        going into Exile. She says (and I can't quote it 100%)
        'I found a little solace in music, in the pageants, in
        drugs....but essentially I was a bit of non-viable
        scum on the vaunted human gene pool.' And I think a
        lot of people feel like this, not just in the Milieu
        but also in real life.
        It is the old existentialist way of thinking
        really...what is the purpose in my life, why am I
        here. Some people find ways to reassure themselves
        that they have a raison d'etre, such as religion, or
        destiny or whatever. In the milieu it became Unity.
        But some people are never going to be able to provide
        themselves with a completely adequate reason for
        living. So living itself is not really sufficient
        reason for life. These people, like Mercy, can find
        'solace' - mainly through addiction (harmful or
        non-harmful. eg, and obsession with music is usually
        positive not negative, as is an addiction to one's
        work). The happiness and contentment derived from the
        different varieties of solace we take is enough to
        alleviate the emptiness and despair felt by someone
        who doesn't truly feel like they have a reason for
        living. Thus, they won't commit suicide. But when an
        opportunity like Exile presents itself they see this
        as a way to provide themself with a reason for living,
        or perhaps a way to avoid needing a reason for living
        (e.g. if you are living six million years in the past,
        do you really need a reason to live??? You can have
        more fun that way).
        Others, such as Aiken, are probably completely
        ignorant of this turmoil that disturbs many humans.
        He sees no impediment to the fun and risk that makes
        his life worth living (even the law). He is much
        better suited to a less structured society where his
        willfulness, trickiness and skill are appreciated.
        The others find happiness in the Tanu way of life
        because it allows them to exercise qualities
        unnecessary in the modern world e.g. romanticism,
        chivalry, bloodthirstiness.

        I think May writes about people like this because they
        are easy to identify with. Think about it - what is
        the penultimate criticism hurled at lovers of sff????
        That they are escapist. In a lot of ways this is true.
        If you enjoy sff most likely you enjoy the thought of
        being in a world 'bigger' in some way than your own.
        Better, even. Or even maybe simpler. But, a reader is
        most likely to sympathise with traits they themselves
        share e.g. in Mercy's case an inability to feel like
        she really belongs in the time she is in. She feels
        she would 'fit' better in sixteenth century France
        than she does in 21st century Earth. Most sff fans
        fantasise about themselves fitting in better in the
        worlds they write or read about than they do in the
        world they are in ( I do at least *g*).
        I would say May was exactly the same when she was
        young and first started reading sff. She thought about
        a place where she would belong and then she wrote
        about it. Seriously, how many people love the Exile
        series because they think about how much they would
        love being on Pliocene earth? How they would fit into
        Tanu society, what they would have taken with them
        through the gate, what professions they would have
        studied, what costume they would have worn? You know,
        Pliocene Earth is an perfect setting for an RPG.


        and I'd
        > hoped that as Julian left Felice and Cul in
        > limbo, there was going to be more to that story
        > ... oh well.
        >
        > Ciao
        > Avalon


        What is the answer to that mystery? I was sure that
        the Great Carbuncle was Felice and Cul, I thought Marc
        took the ruby because no one else in Exile could
        handle it. Even if it does say somewhere that the ruby
        was still buried under a mountain, I think AU would
        have been able to dig it up, and perhaps reshape it to
        harness it's powers. It is just too coincidental that
        a strange ruby in Au and then Rogi's possession should
        come to play a part in so many events in the series.
        But there are tons of coincidences of course.
        What were you saying about Dougal, Ian? Why did you
        think his presence strange, almost diabolical - as far
        as I could see he didn't do much except cry out about
        the 'faery iron'. But, I have always thought one
        particular thing he says incredibly strange - it is
        when he names Aiken as a scion of the royal house of
        Scotland. That is never truly explained - how could
        Dougal know that Aiken was the nonborn son of Davy
        MacGregor? Aiken himself never knew, and it is never
        stated in the novels _only in the Milieu period
        geneologies_
        Hmmmmmmm, one to think on,
        leticia

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      • Ian J Greely
        ... Yes. Imagine how upsetting it would be to find that Mark (or his like) were the reason for it all... ... Well, as I understand it the Carbuncle is a
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 2 5:39 AM
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          On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:07:35 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

          >
          >There is a line in MANY COLOURED LAND which sums it up
          >pretty well. Mercy is talking about the reasons she is
          >going into Exile. She says (and I can't quote it 100%)
          >'I found a little solace in music, in the pageants, in
          >drugs....but essentially I was a bit of non-viable
          >scum on the vaunted human gene pool.' And I think a
          >lot of people feel like this, not just in the Milieu
          >but also in real life.

          Yes. Imagine how upsetting it would be to find that Mark (or his like)
          were the reason for it all...
          >It is the old existentialist way of thinking
          >really...what is the purpose in my life, why am I
          >here. Some people find ways to reassure themselves
          >that they have a raison d'etre, such as religion, or
          >destiny or whatever. In the milieu it became Unity.
          >But some people are never going to be able to provide
          >themselves with a completely adequate reason for
          >living. So living itself is not really sufficient
          >reason for life. These people, like Mercy, can find
          >'solace' - mainly through addiction (harmful or
          >non-harmful. eg, and obsession with music is usually
          >positive not negative, as is an addiction to one's
          >work). The happiness and contentment derived from the
          >different varieties of solace we take is enough to
          >alleviate the emptiness and despair felt by someone
          >who doesn't truly feel like they have a reason for
          >living. Thus, they won't commit suicide. But when an
          >opportunity like Exile presents itself they see this
          >as a way to provide themself with a reason for living,
          >or perhaps a way to avoid needing a reason for living
          >(e.g. if you are living six million years in the past,
          >do you really need a reason to live??? You can have
          >more fun that way).
          >Others, such as Aiken, are probably completely
          >ignorant of this turmoil that disturbs many humans.
          >He sees no impediment to the fun and risk that makes
          >his life worth living (even the law). He is much
          >better suited to a less structured society where his
          >willfulness, trickiness and skill are appreciated.
          >The others find happiness in the Tanu way of life
          >because it allows them to exercise qualities
          >unnecessary in the modern world e.g. romanticism,
          >chivalry, bloodthirstiness.
          >
          >
          >What is the answer to that mystery? I was sure that
          >the Great Carbuncle was Felice and Cul, I thought Marc
          >took the ruby because no one else in Exile could
          >handle it.
          Well, as I understand it the Carbuncle is a miniature of the
          amplification device built by Jack and Diamond Mask for the final
          confrontation. If you recall Denis looked into it and it was,
          ultimately, the reason he tried crazy Rogi's idea and started the
          intervention.

          If you read the descriptions of the artifacts I think you will find
          that they are different geometric shapes....


          >Even if it does say somewhere that the ruby
          >was still buried under a mountain, I think AU would
          >have been able to dig it up, and perhaps reshape it to
          >harness it's powers. It is just too coincidental that
          >a strange ruby in Au and then Rogi's possession should
          >come to play a part in so many events in the series.

          As Chesterton says "Coincidences are spiritual puns"...

          I had much the same idea on the things myself...

          >But there are tons of coincidences of course.
          >What were you saying about Dougal, Ian? Why did you
          >think his presence strange, almost diabolical - as far
          >as I could see he didn't do much except cry out about
          >the 'faery iron'.
          his guys shows up, play the part of a shambolic imbecile and
          facilitates much of the major movement of the piece.

          He is at the iron forge and basicly saves Tony (who opens the time
          gate in the other direction).

          He is Epone's choice as love toy as soon as he arrives and, whilst
          appearing normal, is not turned into cannon fodder.

          If you look at any part of the books where he appears there is
          something momentous in the air...

          Not unlike Rogi in many respects. Just there altering certain apects
          of situations to facilitate the desired outcome...

          ... He strikes me in much the same way as you suggest of the
          carbuncle/felice-cull gem.

          Again Moot stuff.

          regards,
          Ian
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