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  • Matt
    Hello everyone! What an excellent find! I ve read the series at least three times starting back in 1988. I had just decided the other day it was time to dust
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 13, 2002
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      Hello everyone! What an excellent find! I've read the series at least
      three times starting back in 1988. I had just decided the other day
      it was time to dust them off again! Tommorow when I have more time,
      I'll be coming back to read as many of the older posts as I can. But
      since I have many like-minded people about, let me ask something that
      has been bugging me for years: Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
      really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets zapped,
      there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth, Aiken
      or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
      might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )
    • Leticia Anderson
      ... Hi Matt, welcome to the group (and welcome to other new members who have not yet said hello!). ... The story goes that apparently JM had intended to reveal
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 13, 2002
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        on 14/11/02 8:14 AM, Matt at bodiless99@... wrote:

        > Hello everyone!

        Hi Matt, welcome to the group (and welcome to other new members who have not
        yet said hello!).

        >Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
        > really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets zapped,
        > there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth, Aiken
        > or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
        > might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )

        The story goes that apparently JM had intended to reveal the Carbuncle was
        actually the Duality. However, too many people seemed to guess this and so
        she changed her tack. The Carbuncle and the Duality are actually different
        types of stones and different shapes (can someone remind me? A red spherical
        diamond and a tubular ruby??). I personally have a belief that Marc checked
        out the duality quite thoroughly with his deepsight in Adversary, and then
        milennia later created the Carbuncle with it in mind. As to what the
        Carbuncle actually is, there have been lots of theories offered up as to
        what it is. Some favour a communication device linked to the Lylmik. I think
        it is like a cerebroenergetic enhancer (it was created by the founder of CE
        after all). I think it could perhaps enhance simple MP abilities (for
        example, amplifying Rogi's creative output at certain key moments or
        amplifying the cry for help that ushered in the INtervention) OR it is an
        enhancer of Unity, which is why Jack put a model of it on Scurra and why it
        helped at the Intervention.

        Leda
      • Mike Vallender
        Hey Matt and welcome, I guess we will just let you read the archives :-) Regards Mike Vallender ... From: Matt [mailto:bodiless99@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, 14
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 13, 2002
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          Hey Matt and welcome,

          I guess we will just let you read the archives :-)


          Regards

          Mike Vallender

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Matt [mailto:bodiless99@...]
          Sent: Thursday, 14 November 2002 8:15 AM
          To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Hello!

          Hello everyone! What an excellent find! I've read the series at least
          three times starting back in 1988. I had just decided the other day
          it was time to dust them off again! Tommorow when I have more time,
          I'll be coming back to read as many of the older posts as I can. But
          since I have many like-minded people about, let me ask something that
          has been bugging me for years: Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
          really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets zapped,
          there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth, Aiken
          or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
          might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )



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          Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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        • Cleomadjai
          Good synopsis Leda, actually I had only got halfway there with that premise myself. Welcome Matt, enjoy the discussions and feel free to add. Of course it is
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 14, 2002
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            Good synopsis Leda, actually I had only got halfway there with that premise myself.

            Welcome Matt, enjoy the discussions and feel free to add.  Of course it is tradition for new members to send the established ones gifts - just joking.  Check out the wrangle we have been having for ages on the Fury/Denis thing, I still think Fury was from the evil Vic.

            Cleomadjai

             

             Leticia Anderson <leticia@...> wrote:

            on 14/11/02 8:14 AM, Matt at bodiless99@... wrote:

            > Hello everyone!

            Hi Matt, welcome to the group (and welcome to other new members who have not
            yet said hello!).

            >Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
            > really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets zapped,
            > there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth, Aiken
            > or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
            > might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )

            The story goes that apparently JM had intended to reveal the Carbuncle was
            actually the Duality. However, too many people seemed to guess this and so
            she changed her tack. The Carbuncle and the Duality are actually different
            types of stones and different shapes (can someone remind me? A red spherical
            diamond and a tubular ruby??). I personally have a belief that Marc checked
            out the duality quite thoroughly with his deepsight in Adversary, and then
            milennia later created the Carbuncle with it in mind. As to what the
            Carbuncle actually is, there have been lots of theories offered up as to
            what it is. Some favour a communication device linked to the Lylmik. I think
            it is like a cerebroenergetic enhancer (it was created by the founder of CE
            after all). I think it could perhaps enhance simple MP abilities (for
            example, amplifying Rogi's creative output at certain key moments or
            amplifying the cry for help that ushered in the INtervention) OR it is an
            enhancer of Unity, which is why Jack put a model of it on Scurra and why it
            helped at the Intervention.

            Leda


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          • liz_burchill
            Hello, Just stumbled on this group. I love Julian Mays writing, but the Milieu books in particular. The past discussions look pretty interesting...regarding
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 14, 2002
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              Hello,

              Just stumbled on this group. I love Julian Mays writing, but the
              Milieu books in particular. The past discussions look pretty
              interesting...regarding the great carbuncle, in Diamond Mask a red
              LED in Anne Remillards Orb appartment signifies the the divine
              presence in her flat. Could the red spark in the diamond be linked
              to the presence of God, and that's why Jack uses it when he and
              Dorothea unify humanity? The books are crammed with catholic
              symbolism afterall.

              I never considered a link between the GC and Felice and Culluket.
              Hmmm....

              As for Fury being created by Vic posessing Denis, I don't think it
              you can get a definite answer from the books. However personlly I
              think Fury was part of Denis and nothing external. In Diamind Mask
              Anne Remillard says that although circumstances can make people turn
              bad, there's always 'that fateful yes'. Which suggests that JM is
              implying that Denis is culpable for Fury's crimes.

              My favourite characters are Jack and Dorothea, the part in Magnificat
              where they talk about what they'll do when they've finished opposing
              Marc and the rebels always makes me cry. Knowing they're going to
              die to too sad for words.

              --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., Cleomadjai <cleomadjai@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Good synopsis Leda, actually I had only got halfway there with that
              premise myself.
              >
              > Welcome Matt, enjoy the discussions and feel free to add. Of
              course it is tradition for new members to send the established ones
              gifts - just joking. Check out the wrangle we have been having for
              ages on the Fury/Denis thing, I still think Fury was from the evil
              Vic.
              >
              > Cleomadjai
              >
              >
              > Leticia Anderson <leticia@r...> wrote:on 14/11/02 8:14 AM, Matt at
              bodiless99@y... wrote:
              >
              > > Hello everyone!
              >
              > Hi Matt, welcome to the group (and welcome to other new members who
              have not
              > yet said hello!).
              >
              > >Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
              > > really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets
              zapped,
              > > there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth,
              Aiken
              > > or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
              > > might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )
              >
              > The story goes that apparently JM had intended to reveal the
              Carbuncle was
              > actually the Duality. However, too many people seemed to guess this
              and so
              > she changed her tack. The Carbuncle and the Duality are actually
              different
              > types of stones and different shapes (can someone remind me? A red
              spherical
              > diamond and a tubular ruby??). I personally have a belief that Marc
              checked
              > out the duality quite thoroughly with his deepsight in Adversary,
              and then
              > milennia later created the Carbuncle with it in mind. As to what the
              > Carbuncle actually is, there have been lots of theories offered up
              as to
              > what it is. Some favour a communication device linked to the
              Lylmik. I think
              > it is like a cerebroenergetic enhancer (it was created by the
              founder of CE
              > after all). I think it could perhaps enhance simple MP abilities
              (for
              > example, amplifying Rogi's creative output at certain key moments or
              > amplifying the cry for help that ushered in the INtervention) OR it
              is an
              > enhancer of Unity, which is why Jack put a model of it on Scurra
              and why it
              > helped at the Intervention.
              >
              > Leda
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.
            • Leticia Anderson
              HI Liz welcome to the group. ... Wow that s something to think about I ll get back to you.... ... My personal psychoananalysis of Denis and Fury is that Fury
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 14, 2002
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                HI Liz welcome to the group.

                Liz wrote:
                > regarding the great carbuncle, in Diamond Mask a red
                > LED in Anne Remillards Orb appartment signifies the the divine
                > presence in her flat. Could the red spark in the diamond be linked
                > to the presence of God, and that's why Jack uses it when he and
                > Dorothea unify humanity?

                Wow that's something to think about I'll get back to you....

                > As for Fury being created by Vic posessing Denis, I don't think it
                > you can get a definite answer from the books. However personlly I
                > think Fury was part of Denis and nothing external. In Diamind Mask
                > Anne Remillard says that although circumstances can make people turn
                > bad, there's always 'that fateful yes'. Which suggests that JM is
                > implying that Denis is culpable for Fury's crimes.

                My personal 'psychoananalysis' of Denis and Fury is that Fury was always a
                part of Denis. However, Denis managed to repress all of the hatred towards
                his father whereas Victor acted on his hatred and destroyed the one who had
                created such pain - Don. I think that while the Denis part of Denis deplored
                Victor's actions, the Fury part of Denis approved of what Victor did and
                hated itself for not taking vengeance on Don and protecting his younger
                siblings. I think that is part of the reason Denis is so odd about going and
                praying at Vic's bedside, and I think when Vic dies, Fury is born
                'inevitably' to continue the vengeance that Vic started. However, Don, the
                perpetrator the crime, is dead, so the vengeance is displaced and becomes a
                vengeance against humanity and the whole world for having let such a horror
                come to be.
                I think the whole megalomaniacal idea about creating a new milieu is odd;
                the only way I have been able to understand it is to consider that Fury's
                intense hatred and fear of unity is the flipside of Denis' yearning for it:
                Denis yearns for absolution and forgiveness from his 'crimes', while Fury is
                terrified by the possibility that the events of the abuse and the hatred,
                violence and depredation provoked by that abuse will be uncovered. That
                means getting rid of the Milieu and ensuring unity never comes about.

                Leda
              • Maurice Thomas
                Don t listen to em Matt ! You are dead right that Fury is Felice ! It s just the author that is wrong... I think the neatness of a reborn Felice,
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 16, 2002
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                  Don't listen to 'em Matt !   You are dead right that Fury is Felice !   It's just the author that is wrong... <g>
                   
                  I think the neatness of a reborn Felice, finally able to corrupt and tamper with human minds capable of MP activity, and thus able to wreak revenge on Marc, the organiser of her downfall, by destroying his entire family while he watches, is just so desirable that it can't be ruled out.
                   
                  Ning nong nakky noo
                   
                  Moz 
                   
                   -----Original Message-----
                  From: Cleomadjai [mailto:cleomadjai@...]
                  Sent: 14 November 2002 08:35
                  To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Hello!

                  Good synopsis Leda, actually I had only got halfway there with that premise myself.

                  Welcome Matt, enjoy the discussions and feel free to add.  Of course it is tradition for new members to send the established ones gifts - just joking.  Check out the wrangle we have been having for ages on the Fury/Denis thing, I still think Fury was from the evil Vic.

                  Cleomadjai

                   Leticia Anderson <leticia@...> wrote:

                  on 14/11/02 8:14 AM, Matt at bodiless99@... wrote:

                  > Hello everyone!

                  Hi Matt, welcome to the group (and welcome to other new members who have not
                  yet said hello!).

                  >Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
                  > really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets zapped,
                  > there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth, Aiken
                  > or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
                  > might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )

                  The story goes that apparently JM had intended to reveal the Carbuncle was
                  actually the Duality. However, too many people seemed to guess this and so
                  she changed her tack. The Carbuncle and the Duality are actually different
                  types of stones and different shapes (can someone remind me? A red spherical
                  diamond and a tubular ruby??). I personally have a belief that Marc checked
                  out the duality quite thoroughly with his deepsight in Adversary, and then
                  milennia later created the Carbuncle with it in mind. As to what the
                  Carbuncle actually is, there have been lots of theories offered up as to
                  what it is. Some favour a communication device linked to the Lylmik. I think
                  it is like a cerebroenergetic enhancer (it was created by the founder of CE
                  after all). I think it could perhaps enhance simple MP abilities (for
                  example, amplifying Rogi's creative output at certain key moments or
                  amplifying the cry for help that ushered in the INtervention) OR it is an
                  enhancer of Unity, which is why Jack put a model of it on Scurra and why it
                  helped at the Intervention.

                  Leda


                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                  Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                • Matt
                  I swear the whole time I was reading Magnificat, I felt like Julian was rushing herself. I still wonder if the ending is what she had planned the whole time,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 18, 2002
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                    I swear the whole time I was reading Magnificat, I felt like Julian
                    was rushing herself. I still wonder if the ending is what she had
                    planned the whole time, or if she altered it for some reason... Still
                    reading old posts, trying to catch up! : )

                    --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "Maurice Thomas" <mozzer@m...> wrote:
                    > Don't listen to 'em Matt ! You are dead right that Fury is
                    Felice ! It's
                    > just the author that is wrong... <g>
                  • sm_park
                    LOL! Nicely summarized, Moz! A while back, we formulated pretty much the same theory, after much back and forth discussion, but not too many folks were up
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 18, 2002
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                      LOL! Nicely summarized, Moz! A while back, we formulated pretty
                      much the same theory, after much back and forth discussion, but not
                      too many folks were up for it then. They opted for the more literal
                      reading of how JM intended it to be (and I admit, we do have to take
                      what JM gave us...). But, I think that at least Helen and I are with
                      you on the Felice/Duality/Fury theory :) And, now it seems Matt
                      too. Our ranks are growing ;)

                      Seon

                      --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "Maurice Thomas" <mozzer@m...> wrote:
                      > Don't listen to 'em Matt ! You are dead right that Fury is
                      Felice ! It's
                      > just the author that is wrong... <g>
                      >
                      > I think the neatness of a reborn Felice, finally able to corrupt
                      and tamper
                      > with human minds capable of MP activity, and thus able to wreak
                      revenge on
                      > Marc, the organiser of her downfall, by destroying his entire
                      family while
                      > he watches, is just so desirable that it can't be ruled out.
                      >
                      > Ning nong nakky noo
                      >
                      > Moz
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Cleomadjai [mailto:cleomadjai@y...]
                      > Sent: 14 November 2002 08:35
                      > To: Julian-May-discuss@y...
                      > Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Hello!
                      >
                      >
                      > Good synopsis Leda, actually I had only got halfway there with that
                      premise
                      > myself.
                      >
                      > Welcome Matt, enjoy the discussions and feel free to add. Of
                      course it is
                      > tradition for new members to send the established ones gifts - just
                      joking.
                      > Check out the wrangle we have been having for ages on the
                      Fury/Denis thing,
                      > I still think Fury was from the evil Vic.
                      >
                      > Cleomadjai
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Leticia Anderson <leticia@r...> wrote:
                      >
                      > on 14/11/02 8:14 AM, Matt at bodiless99@y... wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hello everyone!
                      >
                      > Hi Matt, welcome to the group (and welcome to other new members
                      who have
                      > not
                      > yet said hello!).
                      >
                      > >Did anyone else suspect that Fury was
                      > > really Felice preserved through the millenia? When she gets
                      zapped,
                      > > there was some remark about her being buried beneath the earth,
                      Aiken
                      > > or someone had farsensed a burning spark. I actually thought she
                      > > might be living in Rogi's carbuncle! : )
                      >
                      > The story goes that apparently JM had intended to reveal the
                      Carbuncle was
                      > actually the Duality. However, too many people seemed to guess
                      this and so
                      > she changed her tack. The Carbuncle and the Duality are actually
                      different
                      > types of stones and different shapes (can someone remind me? A red
                      > spherical
                      > diamond and a tubular ruby??). I personally have a belief that
                      Marc
                      > checked
                      > out the duality quite thoroughly with his deepsight in Adversary,
                      and then
                      > milennia later created the Carbuncle with it in mind. As to what
                      the
                      > Carbuncle actually is, there have been lots of theories offered
                      up as to
                      > what it is. Some favour a communication device linked to the
                      Lylmik. I
                      > think
                      > it is like a cerebroenergetic enhancer (it was created by the
                      founder of
                      > CE
                      > after all). I think it could perhaps enhance simple MP abilities
                      (for
                      > example, amplifying Rogi's creative output at certain key moments
                      or
                      > amplifying the cry for help that ushered in the INtervention) OR
                      it is an
                      > enhancer of Unity, which is why Jack put a model of it on Scurra
                      and why
                      > it
                      > helped at the Intervention.
                      >
                      > Leda
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                      --------
                      > ----
                      > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • Maurice Thomas
                      Apropos of nothing : Lately saddened by reading of Amber Spyglass by P. Pullman. Love his inventiveness - Northern Lights and Subtle Knofe. Understand why he
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 21, 2002
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                        Apropos of nothing :
                         
                        Lately saddened by reading of Amber Spyglass by P. Pullman. Love his inventiveness - Northern Lights and Subtle Knofe. Understand why he despises concept of "and they lived happy ever after". However not sure why he thinks "whirly wheelers" close to Eden-esque-creatures; or why his main characters have to suffer so much after they have done so much for the universe(s). not to mention giving up their parents through no fault of their own.
                        If I was Will I would have asked the last Angel if she would have been so bossy with no lips or cheeks or legs.....
                         
                        PS.If anyone actually has a young indie band that needs a rhythm guitarist giz us a shout  - I live in cumbria, but I can record anywhere via magical mp3 tracking
                         -----Original Message-----
                        From: Matt [mailto:bodiless99@...]
                        Sent: 18 November 2002 12:43
                        To: Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: Hello!

                        I swear the whole time I was reading Magnificat, I felt like Julian
                        was rushing herself. I still wonder if the ending is what she had
                        planned the whole time, or if she altered it for some reason... Still
                        reading old posts, trying to catch up!  : )

                        --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "Maurice Thomas" <mozzer@m...> wrote:
                        > Don't listen to 'em Matt !   You
                        are dead right that Fury is
                        Felice !   It's
                        > just the
                        author that is wrong... <g>



                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • Baralier
                        Welcome to the group. ... I d agree with Mark though I d go so far as to say STOP reading the Adversary. It is the 4th book of the Saga of the Exiles. You
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 29, 2002
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                          Welcome to the group.

                          > I'm Jennifer and my favourite Julian May is Jack the Bodiless, which
                          > may be because it was the first I read. Because I read the books in
                          > the wrong order, I'm a little mixed up on the storyline (I've just
                          > started reading The Adversary) so please forgive me if I ask any
                          > obvious questions!

                          I'd agree with Mark though I'd go so far as to say STOP reading the Adversary.
                          It is the 4th book of the Saga of the Exiles. You should really start with The
                          Many Coloured Land and get into the series properly. That way things will make
                          more sense thank reading them in reverse :-)

                          Baralier
                          --
                          Good planning and organisation are just crutches for people who can't handle
                          stress and caffeine.
                          http://members.optushome.com.au/velvetspyder
                          Costumier & Reprobate
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