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Huna Magic

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  • g.norfolk
    I have just reread JTB and I was intrigued by some of the concepts discussed by Jon concerning upper, lower and middle selves. Does anyone in the group
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 31, 2002
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      I have just reread JTB and I was intrigued by some of the concepts discussed by Jon concerning  upper, lower and middle selves. Does anyone in the group understand anything about Hawaian Kahuna beliefs. I had encounterd mention about these in the James Mitchener book "Hawaii"
      and I did check out the Big Myth site but couldnt find anything concerning this subject.
       
      Also Malama's comments when hiding Theresa's ashes intrigue me. Was she suggesting that Theresa's spirit would "haunt" Jon trying to finish the job of killing him as she had attempted while she was committing suicide.
       
      This all has interesting implications when considering Fury and what exactly it is. I'm not sure I buy the story that Dennis developed a split personality as a result of childhood abuse by Don. I think that Victor did somehow manage to transfer something of himself on his deathbed. Any Thoughts, high or otherwise?
       
      Helen
    • bob
      Hi Helen If I remember my studies from my mixed up teens - and I warn you I probably don t - as Hawaii is several separate islands, the religious or more
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2002
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        Hi Helen

        If I remember my studies from my mixed up teens - and I warn you I probably don't - as Hawaii is several separate islands, the religious or more correctly spiritual aspect of the peoples is actually quite diverse and unifying them takes some doing even tracing things back to their original Polynesian roots.

        Th Huna or Ha as it is also called sometimes, is the most well known of the systems (ironic given it's meaning of 'secret.') and borrowed on heavily by JM within her books. You might be surprised to learn that given the emphasis on mind in her books, essentially Huna is a very earth based belief system akin somewhat to Buddhism in its understanding of how all living things interact on some level with all the elements and the changes to both that happen with in this interaction.

        Probably the most essential part of Huna is the three states of the heart:

        The ability to love

        The ability to offer courage

        and finally

        The ability to be open to life in all it's forms

        To this must be wedded to the "Melekiana", (I'm not certain of the spelling but I think that's close) which is the process of strengthening your energy flow, both spiritually and physically, and also with the "Kala", which is the ability to end emotional conflict at the subconscious level.

        A lot of the stuff you will find both in print and on the web is mixed up hippy stuff from the 1960's thrown in with a lot of new age crystal staring awareness. All well and good in themselves, but intrinsically misleading to the original Huna teachings, beware. Try doing a search for "Malaka Traditions" instead of Hawaiian and you might find some appropriate stuff on the web.

        So, my understanding of Malama's secluding of Theresa's ashes comes to this:

        Remember we and the world around are all connected - Universal Theory and Unity anybody? - so when Theresa had lost her ability to control her Kala even on her death bed her spirit could not rest or be distracted from resting until it had found balance again and atoned for denying all of the Huna states of the heart.

        It wasn't so much to protect Jack, as to allow Theresa's spirit to complete it's atonement without distraction that Malama hid her mortal remains away in an earthly place of spiritual healing.

        Where all this comes in to with lower, middle and higher self... that one I'd only be able to offer guesses on, sorry. It is quite possible that the system exists in that theory and it is not something JM needed to embellish, as I said the islands are quite diverse in the nuances of the Huna system.

        regards to the group

        BTBG

         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: g.norfolk
        Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:47 PM
        Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Huna Magic

        I have just reread JTB and I was intrigued by some of the concepts discussed by Jon concerning  upper, lower and middle selves. Does anyone in the group understand anything about Hawaian Kahuna beliefs. I had encounterd mention about these in the James Mitchener book "Hawaii"
        and I did check out the Big Myth site but couldnt find anything concerning this subject.
         
        Also Malama's comments when hiding Theresa's ashes intrigue me. Was she suggesting that Theresa's spirit would "haunt" Jon trying to finish the job of killing him as she had attempted while she was committing suicide.
         
        This all has interesting implications when considering Fury and what exactly it is. I'm not sure I buy the story that Dennis developed a split personality as a result of childhood abuse by Don. I think that Victor did somehow manage to transfer something of himself on his deathbed. Any Thoughts, high or otherwise?
         
        Helen

      • g.norfolk
        Oh wow! Many Thanx Bob. I took your advice but couldnt dig up much under malaka traditions . However after playing around with various search criteria I have
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 3, 2002
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          Oh wow!
           
          Many Thanx Bob.
           
          I took your advice but couldnt dig up much under "malaka traditions". However after playing around with various search criteria I have managed to locate quite an amount of info to sift thru and check out. I'll let you know if I manage to sort out the lower,middle,upper selves bit. From what I have read so far, some of the basic concepts expressed by the Huna philosophy fit in very well with conclusions I have drawn about life myself. I have never really studied mystical/spiritual/philosophical matters but I feel quite drawn to this.
           
          The theme of atonement seems to be an important thread running thru both the pliocene and milieu books. I had noticed JM coming at it from the 'traditional' Catholic point of view (have been brought up RC and educated by nuns). The more I read these books, and the archives I realise what classics they are and how cleverly JM wrote them.
           
          Pity that they dont market them in bookstores outside the sf.fantasy genre. I have persuaded a couple of non-sf people to read them and they both enjoyed them immensely.
           
          Helen
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: bob
          Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 9:41 AM
          Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Huna Magic

          Hi Helen

          If I remember my studies from my mixed up teens - and I warn you I probably don't - as Hawaii is several separate islands, the religious or more correctly spiritual aspect of the peoples is actually quite diverse and unifying them takes some doing even tracing things back to their original Polynesian roots.

          Th Huna or Ha as it is also called sometimes, is the most well known of the systems (ironic given it's meaning of 'secret.') and borrowed on heavily by JM within her books. You might be surprised to learn that given the emphasis on mind in her books, essentially Huna is a very earth based belief system akin somewhat to Buddhism in its understanding of how all living things interact on some level with all the elements and the changes to both that happen with in this interaction.

          Probably the most essential part of Huna is the three states of the heart:

          The ability to love

          The ability to offer courage

          and finally

          The ability to be open to life in all it's forms

          To this must be wedded to the "Melekiana", (I'm not certain of the spelling but I think that's close) which is the process of strengthening your energy flow, both spiritually and physically, and also with the "Kala", which is the ability to end emotional conflict at the subconscious level.

          A lot of the stuff you will find both in print and on the web is mixed up hippy stuff from the 1960's thrown in with a lot of new age crystal staring awareness. All well and good in themselves, but intrinsically misleading to the original Huna teachings, beware. Try doing a search for "Malaka Traditions" instead of Hawaiian and you might find some appropriate stuff on the web.

          So, my understanding of Malama's secluding of Theresa's ashes comes to this:

          Remember we and the world around are all connected - Universal Theory and Unity anybody? - so when Theresa had lost her ability to control her Kala even on her death bed her spirit could not rest or be distracted from resting until it had found balance again and atoned for denying all of the Huna states of the heart.

          It wasn't so much to protect Jack, as to allow Theresa's spirit to complete it's atonement without distraction that Malama hid her mortal remains away in an earthly place of spiritual healing.

          Where all this comes in to with lower, middle and higher self... that one I'd only be able to offer guesses on, sorry. It is quite possible that the system exists in that theory and it is not something JM needed to embellish, as I said the islands are quite diverse in the nuances of the Huna system.

          regards to the group

          BTBG

           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: g.norfolk
          Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:47 PM
          Subject: [Julian-May-discuss] Huna Magic

          I have just reread JTB and I was intrigued by some of the concepts discussed by Jon concerning  upper, lower and middle selves. Does anyone in the group understand anything about Hawaian Kahuna beliefs. I had encounterd mention about these in the James Mitchener book "Hawaii"
          and I did check out the Big Myth site but couldnt find anything concerning this subject.
           
          Also Malama's comments when hiding Theresa's ashes intrigue me. Was she suggesting that Theresa's spirit would "haunt" Jon trying to finish the job of killing him as she had attempted while she was committing suicide.
           
          This all has interesting implications when considering Fury and what exactly it is. I'm not sure I buy the story that Dennis developed a split personality as a result of childhood abuse by Don. I think that Victor did somehow manage to transfer something of himself on his deathbed. Any Thoughts, high or otherwise?
           
          Helen



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        • sm_park
          ... This all has interesting implications when considering Fury and what exactly it is. I m not sure I buy the story that Dennis developed a split
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 4, 2002
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            --- In Julian-May-discuss@y..., "g.norfolk" <g.norfolk@n...> wrote:
            <snip> This all has interesting implications when considering Fury
            and what exactly it is. I'm not sure I buy the story that Dennis
            developed a split personality as a result of childhood abuse by Don.
            I think that Victor did somehow manage to transfer something of
            himself on his deathbed. Any Thoughts, high or otherwise?
            >
            > Helen


            Hi Helen,

            Although it's probably not the popular view, I have to agree with you
            about Denis. I also never really bought, lock, stock, and barrel,
            the idea that Denis' split personality with Fury was solely the
            result of childhood abuse. This explanation has always seemed too
            pat of an answer for me, to be the fulcrum around which essentially
            all of the rest of the long and complicated story pivots. This was
            one of the reasons that I think Magnificat was somewhat of a letdown
            for folks. *Ducking for cover* right now, but the anticipation that
            there would be a more intricate way of linking Fury to the rest of
            the characters was not met by this explanation, at least for me. I
            think it could have been part of the reason, but not all of it.

            I know that there is some "irrefutable" evidence in one of Rogi's
            passages in the Milieu books, when he alludes to how appalled he is
            to learn about Don's actions, but this, as well as all of the other
            indicators, seem almost too subtle. I've gone over some of the old
            posts about this subject, but even those deepened my suspicion that
            there was/should have been some other factor involved in bringing out
            Denis/Fury.

            Here's my pet theory:

            -- The Felice/Culluket Duality evolved, over the course of their six
            million year captivity, into the core Fury entity. This might
            explain why It was always so anti-Milieu, having had six million
            years to stew about who/what had put them in their predicament.

            -- When the time was ripe, It somehow seduced Victor and transferred
            Itself to Victor's body, since being bodiless was the main drawback
            to It re-entering (and conquering) the physical world (Brede's room
            without doors would have allowed It to leave of Its own will at any
            time). Victor's personality would have been power-hungry enough to
            accept such a deal.

            -- When Victor's body became incapacitated, Fury needed another one
            but wasn't able to find a suitable one until the last Good Friday
            session, when Rogi was attending. When Unifex disallowed Rogi, Fury
            had to compromise: It partially transferred to Denis and created the
            Hydras. Even though Denis was in a weakened and susceptible state
            (due to his suppression of the abuse, guilt over never having stopped
            Victor and praying that Victor would atone), Fury wasn't able to make
            a complete transference to take over Denis' body, as It had with
            Victor. So, It had to resort to creating the subordinate Hydras.


            There isn't really any hard evidence that I can quote for this
            scenario off of the top of my head, but I can't help thinking that
            the Felice/Culluket Duality would have /should have played a much
            bigger role in the Milieu story, after their imprisonment in the
            Pliocene was alluded to so ominously. I've read in the old posts
            that JM chose not to make the Duality the Carbuncle once she realized
            that fans were predicting it, but it still seems that they would have
            been the perfect vehicle for Fury and Its plans for a second Milieu,
            given the nature of the two personalities who were imprisoned
            together.

            I welcome any comments and especially any that might support my
            little theory ;) I'm looking forward to our group read in December -
            maybe looking for more clues to the origin of Denis/Fury can be one
            of the themes to keep in mind and look out for, during our reading!
            I'm sure there are many others too :)

            -Seon
          • Leticia Anderson
            ... Yes, Bob s intro has whetted my appetite as well. Very interesting - Helen, if you find any particular sites on the web let me know and we will put them
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 5, 2002
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              Helen wrote:
              >I took your advice but couldnt dig up much under "malaka traditions". However
              >after playing around with various search criteria I have managed to locate
              >quite an amount of info to sift thru and check out. I'll let you know if I
              >manage to sort out the lower,middle,upper selves bit. From what I have read so
              >far, some of the basic concepts expressed by the Huna philosophy fit in very
              >well with conclusions I have drawn about life myself. I have never really
              >studied mystical/spiritual/philosophical matters but I feel quite drawn to
              >this.

              Yes, Bob's intro has whetted my appetite as well. Very interesting - Helen,
              if you find any particular sites on the web let me know and we will put them
              into the links section.

              Cheers
              Leda
            • g.norfolk
              Sorry for the delay in responding Leda, have had other things going on and JM hac to take a back seat. I have finally come up with a list of links put together
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 20, 2002
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                Sorry for the delay in responding Leda,
                 
                have had other things going on and JM hac to take a back seat.
                 
                I have finally come up with a list of links put together fom my perambulations around the net. These concern not only Huna but also Kundalini Yoga.
                 
                Plus, I just took a trawl thru the links section and alot are out of date.
                 
                I'm not sure what your rules are for including links to other sites. As Bob stated in one of his earlier postings (msg 1448) most of the stuff out there is mixed up with 'new age crystal staring awareness' and took alot of going thru. MOST of the sites containing useful stuff are trying to sell services/books/tapes etc.  How do you want the links?
                 
                i. As a general reference to the site and let people navigate around it themselves.
                 
                ii. References to specific pages/sections containing the useful info.
                 
                Regards,
                 
                Helen
                 
                ---- Original Message -----
                Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 5:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Huna Magic

                Helen wrote:
                >I took your advice but couldnt dig up much under "malaka traditions". However
                >after playing around with various search criteria I have managed to locate
                >quite an amount of info to sift thru and check out. I'll let you know if I
                >manage to sort out the lower,middle,upper selves bit. From what I have read so
                >far, some of the basic concepts expressed by the Huna philosophy fit in very
                >well with conclusions I have drawn about life myself. I have never really
                >studied mystical/spiritual/philosophical matters but I feel quite drawn to
                >this.

                Yes, Bob's intro has whetted my appetite as well. Very interesting - Helen,
                if you find any particular sites on the web let me know and we will put them
                into the links section.

                Cheers
                Leda




                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Julian-May-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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              • Leticia Anderson
                ... HI Helen, I think whatever you think is best! Most of the links in the links section refer to main pages only but that is because most of them are May
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 22, 2002
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                  Helen wrote:
                  >I'm not sure what your rules are for including links to other sites. As Bob
                  >stated in one of his earlier postings (msg 1448) most of the stuff out there is
                  >mixed up with 'new age crystal staring awareness' and took alot of going thru.
                  >MOST of the sites containing useful stuff are trying to sell
                  >services/books/tapes etc. How do you want the links?
                  >i. As a general reference to the site and let people navigate around it
                  >themselves.
                  >ii. References to specific pages/sections containing the useful info.

                  HI Helen,

                  I think whatever you think is best! Most of the links in the links section
                  refer to main pages only but that is because most of them are May specific.
                  The list and its functions are supposed to be useful for everyone so
                  whatever you think the best way to signpost information I would go with.
                  Probably putting it into a 'Huna Magic' folder in the links section though
                  would be a good idea, so it is easy to fin the related pages.

                  Cheers,
                  Leticia
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