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4048Re: [Julian-May-discuss] Re: Off Topic, or Just a Bit Off?

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  • Michael Roser
    Jun 13 3:49 AM
      High Thoughts, Friends and Fellow Operants:
      Oh, dear. It distresses me to see anyone,
      especially all you obviously meta-intelligent operant
      and sub-operants, attempting to boil down eight
      wonderful, mind-expanding books into one central,
      all-encompassing theme. Do any of you really think
      that JM had just ONE idea that she was trying to
      impart to us all when she wrote these books over a
      period of nearly two decades? (Not counting the
      thirty-odd years of note-taking and outlining she did
      before she ever set her fingers to her word-processor
      way back in the Eighties.) That would be like saying
      that the entire human race represents just one
      philosophy, which we can see from this discussion it
      most certainly does not.
      Consider the depth and breadth of the two series,
      my friends. Consider the SCOPE of her vision. It's not
      just ONE theme. It's many. Masculinity vs. femininity,
      violence vs. pacifism, technology vs humanism,
      ignorance vs. intelligence (hmm, perhaps empathy might
      be a better word) and the Ultimate Struggle: Good vs.
      Evil. And on top of that, she was kind enough to
      lecture us on geology, mountaineering, chemistry,
      biology, astrophysics, psychology, shipbuilding and
      operation, politics, economics, sociology, costume
      design, warfare of all sorts...Goddess, the list is
      endless.
      But you all know this, don't you? And you love
      her books, as do I, and know that they were written
      for a deeper and greater purpose than simply to put
      groceries on the table or 'merely' to entertain. Her
      intent was to make you THINK.
      And she succeeded, didn't she? Otherwise you
      would not be debating this, as you are now. I think
      she would smile that wonderful smile of hers to see
      this now. Don't think for a moment that she isn't
      aware of this. My guess is that she's a member of this
      group under an assumed name and if you are reading
      this now, dear lady: Greetings!
      My point, admittedly arrived at somewhat
      tortuously, is that a reductio ad absurdum argument is
      just that: absurd. Think! She gave us a lot to think
      about and the human dynamic is much more than a simple
      Duality. Remember that in your daily lives when you
      try to reduce a complex situation to its lowest common
      denominators. There is always more than you imagine.
      More than you CAN imagine. And that is the grandeur of
      her vision and I KNOW we can all appreciate that.
      By the way, if any of you are interested, I have
      several excellent pictures of JM in full costume as
      Diamond Mask (in flying suit) at the 51st. WorldCon. I
      would like to be able to share these with the group
      and especially with JM herself as she is approaching
      her 75th birthday. Please feel free to contact me at
      this e-mail address if you are interested as I believe
      posting them to the group pics or files section would
      require reducing them considerably in size and density
      and I am loath to do that.
      Love and Peace in the Light of the Goddess
      Michelle/Michael
      (A Duality unto herself)

      --- grandmster <grandmster@...> wrote:

      > Hi Thoughts all,
      > Lets Remember that Aiken himself put the fate of the
      > Kingdom(and the
      > Kingship)in the hands of a woman,when he told
      > Elizabeth that she was
      > the only one with the ability to fend off Marc!!!
      > On another note,I've just recalled that many years
      > ago when I was
      > reading The Saga of the Exiles for the first time,I
      > was stunned to
      > discover that Julian May is a woman,as her style of
      > writing portrays
      > a certain masculinity!!!Sincere apologies Julian.Of
      > course it made
      > the story that much more impressive and also
      > hilarious at times
      > (Rogi's flinching gonads on hearing of Jacks
      > testicular cancer!).
      > I may be a little naive to believe that it was'nt
      > JM's intention to
      > portray the death of the patriachy or the ascension
      > of the
      > matriachy.Whilst Rogi is obviously the most central
      > character and
      > with the admission of his faults,is all the more
      > endearing for it,I
      > believe that Dennis was central to everything and he
      > certainly didnt
      > fail!He was instrumental in bringing about the
      > intervention and
      > managed to dispose of the many headed Hydra and
      > ultimately enabled
      > Rogi to destroy Fury.
      > Long Live Manhood..........if thats ok with the
      > ladies!!!
      > Paul.
      > ps.I still believe there is a connection between
      > Felice/Culleket and
      > Fury(bring on Padster for a good rip roaring
      > argument,we havent had
      > one for ages)
      > --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Robert
      > Powell"
      > <pallol@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've never really seen the series as being about
      > the death of
      > > patriarchy, more of the inevitable death of all
      > totalitarian
      > > authority and power; patriarchy is just a part of
      > this. Denis, who
      > > did fail of course, was certainly the patriarch of
      > his family, but
      > > to a degree so was Rogi, who most certainly
      > didn't. Thagdal
      > himself,
      > > bowed to the authority of the Ship Spouse, and
      > both failed in the
      > > face of Aiken Drum's anarchistic rise to power,
      > but Aiken himself
      > > ultimately had to relinquish some power to work
      > with the rebels
      > > and `free' humans.
      > >
      > > For me the story is ultimately about how power
      > must be flexible to
      > > be sustainable or uncompromising and
      > self-defeating and perhaps how
      > > society might need leaders but individuals do not.
      > >
      > > Here endeth the thought process - brain
      > disengaged, returning to
      > > tedium of workplace . . . :-)
      > >
      > > BTBG
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com,
      > "Nicolette" <nicolel@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Alix,
      > > >
      > > > High thoughts to you - I hope you're feeling a
      > bit better!
      > > >
      > > > You can be off-topic as long as you somehow
      > connect it back to
      > > Julian
      > > > May. Be creative, even. ^_~
      > > >
      > > > I am keen to hear your thoughts on how the
      > Exile/Milieu books
      > > relate to
      > > > the death of the patriarchy (I haven't read the
      > other books you
      > > > mentioned, unfortunately).
      > > >
      > > > You could say that the Milieu books had quite a
      > patriarchal feel -
      >
      > > > certainly the Remillard family was chock-full of
      > Alpha Male vibes
      > > > *grin* and certainly Bad!Alpha Male Marc (and
      > Fury) wanted to be
      > > in
      > > > charge.
      > > >
      > > > Mind you, in the Exile books the Tanu society
      > could be described
      > > as
      > > > being a matriarchal type, since they worshipped
      > a Goddess. I
      > think
      > > I
      > > > remember a comment from 'Adversary' where Kuhal
      > said they were
      > > > fortunate their Goddess tried to guide her
      > people to perfection,
      > > > whereas people like Marc would rather force
      > people to be perfect
      > > (for
      > > > their own good, of course).
      > > >
      > > > High Thoughts,
      > > > - Nicolette :-)
      > > >
      > > > --- In Julian-May-discuss@yahoogroups.com,
      > "alixnc" <alixnc@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Oh goody, can we do off topic with impunity?
      > I'm still a bit
      > > shell
      > > > > shocked from the Mother's Day season at the
      > garden center, and
      > > would
      > > > > really like to know the botanical name for
      > globe amaranth.
      > > > > Also, while in mental free fall, I finally
      > realized why it is
      > > that
      > > > JM's
      > > > > Exile/Milieu series, Stephen King's Dark Tower
      > series, and
      > > Salman
      > > > > Rushdie's 'The Satanic Verses' keep chasing
      > one another's tails
      > > > around
      > > > > in my overtaxed skull. All three seem strongly
      > related IMHO to
      > > the
      > > > > death of the patriarchy. Any comment? I'd love
      > to get any
      > > feedback
      > > > on
      > > > > this, short of someone actually coming to take
      > me away.
      > > > > Still persisting,
      > > > > Alix
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >




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