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Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

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  • Harvey Kaplan
    Good plan. I had my dna tested by Family Tree DNA in 2010. Would I have to start again from scratch? Harvey Kaplan Glasgow, Scotland
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
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      Good plan.

      I had my dna tested by Family Tree DNA in 2010. Would I have to start again from scratch?

      Harvey Kaplan

      Glasgow, Scotland

      On 21 September 2012 22:02, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
       

      Fellow Keidaners,
      Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
      Are you interested in doing so?
      I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
      Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
      Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
      My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
      But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
      I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
      That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
      I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
      I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
      Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
      In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
      Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
      http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
      This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
      We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
      But maybe we match genetically?
      I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
      They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
      I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
      I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

      Howard Wolinsky



    • Josh Weinstein
      Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
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        Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
        It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                  Josh

        From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
        To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
        Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

         
        Fellow Keidaners,
        Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
        Are you interested in doing so?
        I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
        Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
        Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
        My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
        But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
        I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
        That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
        I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
        I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
        Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
        In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
        Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
        http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
        This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
        We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
        But maybe we match genetically?
        I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
        They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
        I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
        I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

        Howard Wolinsky




      • Howard Wolinsky
        Hi Harvey, I wouldn t think you d have to be tested again. I certainly don t. Have you had at least 37 markers at FamilytreeDNA...I can ask if those who have
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
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          Hi Harvey,
          I wouldn't think you'd have to be tested again. I certainly don't.
          Have you had at least 37 markers at FamilytreeDNA...I can ask if those who have been tested can be gathered together.
          Have we already matched somehow?
          Have you been tested at 23andme?
          I know we were in touch when I went to Keidan for a visit.
          Howard


          On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Harvey Kaplan <rvlkaplan@...> wrote:
           

          Good plan.


          I had my dna tested by Family Tree DNA in 2010. Would I have to start again from scratch?

          Harvey Kaplan

          Glasgow, Scotland

          On 21 September 2012 22:02, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
           

          Fellow Keidaners,
          Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
          Are you interested in doing so?
          I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
          Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
          Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
          My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
          But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
          I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
          That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
          I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
          I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
          Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
          In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
          Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
          http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
          This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
          We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
          But maybe we match genetically?
          I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
          They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
          I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
          I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

          Howard Wolinsky






          --
          Howard Wolinsky

          708-799-0635 (landline)
          312-909-2381 (mobile)
          howardwolinsky (Skype)

        • Howard Wolinsky
          Josh, I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme? What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.) For anyone who has been tested
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Josh,
            I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
            What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
            For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
            Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
            Any other interest out there?
            Howard
            Howard

            On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
             

            Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
            It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                      Josh

            From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
            To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
            Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

             
            Fellow Keidaners,
            Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
            Are you interested in doing so?
            I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
            Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
            Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
            My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
            But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
            I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
            That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
            I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
            I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
            Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
            In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
            Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
            http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
            This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
            We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
            But maybe we match genetically?
            I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
            They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
            I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
            I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

            Howard Wolinsky







            --
            Howard Wolinsky

            708-799-0635 (landline)
            312-909-2381 (mobile)
            howardwolinsky (Skype)

          • Josh Weinstein
            Howard, my haplogroup is J2a*.   Ronald Asherson with family (Stung) from Keidan was a 23/25 match. I have closer matches outside of Keidan and
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
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              Howard, my haplogroup is J2a*.   Ronald Asherson with family (Stung) from Keidan was a 23/25 match. I have closer matches outside of Keidan and Lithuania---the separation from Ronald's line may have happened before our families migrated to Keidan.
              I am fine with FTDNA. I have looked at comparisons between the two companies and neither seems superior unless one is looking for medical information. At Gedmatch it is possible to combine results from the two companies, but the site is in financial trouble.
                                                          Josh

              From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
              To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com; jgw111@...
              Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:43 AM
              Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

               
              Josh,
              I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
              What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
              For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
              Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
              Any other interest out there?
              Howard
              Howard

              On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
               
              Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
              It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                        Josh

              From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
              To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
              Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

               
              Fellow Keidaners,
              Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
              Are you interested in doing so?
              I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
              Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
              Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
              My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
              But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
              I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
              That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
              I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
              I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
              Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
              In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
              Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
              http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
              This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
              We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
              But maybe we match genetically?
              I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
              They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
              I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
              I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

              Howard Wolinsky







              --
              Howard Wolinsky

              708-799-0635 (landline)
              312-909-2381 (mobile)
              howardwolinsky (Skype)



            • Harvey Kaplan
              Howard Since I was tested in 2010, I ve been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn t find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan! I find it a bit
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
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                Howard

                Since I was tested in 2010, I've been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn't find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan!

                I find it a bit hard to get my head round the whole dna thing! - alleles, haplogroups etc. I seem to be J2 and have been analysed on 12 markers. Looks like I could upgrade to 37 markers for 99 dollars, but reluctant to spend this when I've really got nothing out of the first test.

                My family on the paternal side were Kaplan and Fayn from Ariogala (also Krakes, Grinkiskis), Josvainiai and latterly, Kedainiai for a short time in the 1880s.

                best wishes

                Harvey 

                On 22 September 2012 15:43, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
                 

                Josh,
                I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
                What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
                For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
                Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
                Any other interest out there?
                Howard
                Howard



                On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
                 

                Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
                It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                          Josh

                From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
                Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                 
                Fellow Keidaners,
                Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                Are you interested in doing so?
                I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                But maybe we match genetically?
                I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                Howard Wolinsky







                --
                Howard Wolinsky

                708-799-0635 (landline)
                312-909-2381 (mobile)
                howardwolinsky (Skype)


              • Charles KADIN
                Howard;   I think it is time for me to look into this. Depite my obvious last name and the fact that we spoke Yiddish a la Litvack or middle German, no one
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
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                  Howard;
                   
                  I think it is time for me to look into this. Depite my obvious last name
                  and the fact that we spoke Yiddish a la Litvack or middle German,
                  no one knows exactly where we came from. My guess is N/E Germany.
                  My parents were raised in a small border town on the Russian side
                  some 40km from Vilno. Thanks for this.
                   
                  Charles Kadin

                  From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                  To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02:41 PM
                  Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                   
                  Fellow Keidaners,
                  Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                  Are you interested in doing so?
                  I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                  Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                  Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                  My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                  But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                  I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                  That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                  I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                  I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                  Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                  In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                  Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                  http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                  This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                  We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                  But maybe we match genetically?
                  I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                  They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                  I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                  I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                  Howard Wolinsky




                • sharonsilber@aol.com
                  I was quite interested to see the possibility of group genetic testing but disappointed to see it restricted to males. Is it really different to test females?
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 22, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I was quite interested to see the possibility of group genetic testing but disappointed to see it restricted to males. Is it really different to test females? (My 2 sisters and I are our Kedainai father's only living descendents). And if my son (or nephews) were tested would it only show genetic markers on the male (non-Keidan) side of the family? How much is the Family Finder test? I am new to all this. Sharon Silber (daughter of Joseph Zilberas of Keidan) Keidan (and later Kovno, earlier Krakes) family names Shterenfeld, Finkelstein, Rabinowitz and Lurie


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Harvey Kaplan <rvlkaplan@...>
                    To: JewishKeidan <JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com>
                    Cc: jgw111 <jgw111@...>
                    Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 1:01 pm
                    Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                     
                    Howard

                    Since I was tested in 2010, I've been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn't find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan!

                    I find it a bit hard to get my head round the whole dna thing! - alleles, haplogroups etc. I seem to be J2 and have been analysed on 12 markers. Looks like I could upgrade to 37 markers for 99 dollars, but reluctant to spend this when I've really got nothing out of the first test.

                    My family on the paternal side were Kaplan and Fayn from Ariogala (also Krakes, Grinkiskis), Josvainiai and latterly, Kedainiai for a short time in the 1880s.

                    best wishes

                    Harvey 

                    On 22 September 2012 15:43, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
                     
                    Josh,
                    I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
                    What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
                    For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
                    Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
                    Any other interest out there?
                    Howard
                    Howard


                    On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
                     
                    Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
                    It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                              Josh

                    From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                    To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
                    Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                     
                    Fellow Keidaners,
                    Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                    Are you interested in doing so?
                    I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                    Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                    Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                    My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                    But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                    I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                    That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                    I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                    I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                    Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                    In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                    Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                    http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                    This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                    We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                    But maybe we match genetically?
                    I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                    They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                    I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                    I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                    Howard Wolinsky







                    --
                    Howard Wolinsky

                    708-799-0635 (landline)
                    312-909-2381 (mobile)
                    howardwolinsky (Skype)


                  • Howard Wolinsky
                    I agree that we don t want to discriminate based on gender. I asked Bennett Greenspan what he thought would be the most effective testing--at least to start
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 23, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I agree that we don't want to discriminate based on gender. I asked Bennett Greenspan what he thought would be the most effective testing--at least to start out. I asked about whether we can get a discount for the FamilyFinder testing.

                      On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:47 PM, <sharonsilber@...> wrote:
                       

                      I was quite interested to see the possibility of group genetic testing but disappointed to see it restricted to males. Is it really different to test females? (My 2 sisters and I are our Kedainai father's only living descendents). And if my son (or nephews) were tested would it only show genetic markers on the male (non-Keidan) side of the family? How much is the Family Finder test? I am new to all this. Sharon Silber (daughter of Joseph Zilberas of Keidan) Keidan (and later Kovno, earlier Krakes) family names Shterenfeld, Finkelstein, Rabinowitz and Lurie




                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Harvey Kaplan <rvlkaplan@...>
                      To: JewishKeidan <JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com>
                      Cc: jgw111 <jgw111@...>
                      Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 1:01 pm
                      Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                       
                      Howard

                      Since I was tested in 2010, I've been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn't find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan!

                      I find it a bit hard to get my head round the whole dna thing! - alleles, haplogroups etc. I seem to be J2 and have been analysed on 12 markers. Looks like I could upgrade to 37 markers for 99 dollars, but reluctant to spend this when I've really got nothing out of the first test.

                      My family on the paternal side were Kaplan and Fayn from Ariogala (also Krakes, Grinkiskis), Josvainiai and latterly, Kedainiai for a short time in the 1880s.

                      best wishes

                      Harvey 

                      On 22 September 2012 15:43, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
                       
                      Josh,
                      I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
                      What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
                      For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
                      Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
                      Any other interest out there?
                      Howard
                      Howard


                      On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
                       
                      Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
                      It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                                Josh

                      From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                      To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
                      Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                       
                      Fellow Keidaners,
                      Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                      Are you interested in doing so?
                      I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                      Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                      Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                      My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                      But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                      I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                      That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                      I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                      I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                      Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                      In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                      Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                      http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                      This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                      We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                      But maybe we match genetically?
                      I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                      They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                      I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                      I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                      Howard Wolinsky







                      --
                      Howard Wolinsky

                      708-799-0635 (landline)
                      312-909-2381 (mobile)
                      howardwolinsky (Skype)





                      --
                      Howard Wolinsky

                      708-799-0635 (landline)
                      312-909-2381 (mobile)
                      howardwolinsky (Skype)

                    • Lois
                      My grandfather was from Keidan.....born in 1898.....left in 1902 and came to America....I am very interested in getting dna testing. However, I find the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 23, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        My grandfather was from Keidan.....born in 1898.....left in 1902 and came to America....I am very interested in getting dna testing.  However, I find the arguement for giving males a financial break is most obnoxious ......an ignorant and belittling decision..  If I wanted to pay full price would they turn me down?...I think not.  That in itself fails the sniff test. I think presented with this arguement they would struggle to find a coherent answer.  Sincerely, Lois Ockner
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Howard Wolinsky
                        Sent: Sep 23, 2012 5:29 AM
                        To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                         

                        I agree that we don't want to discriminate based on gender. I asked Bennett Greenspan what he thought would be the most effective testing--at least to start out. I asked about whether we can get a discount for the FamilyFinder testing.

                        On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:47 PM, <sharonsilber@...> wrote:
                         

                        I was quite interested to see the possibility of group genetic testing but disappointed to see it restricted to males. Is it really different to test females? (My 2 sisters and I are our Kedainai father's only living descendents). And if my son (or nephews) were tested would it only show genetic markers on the male (non-Keidan) side of the family? How much is the Family Finder test? I am new to all this. Sharon Silber (daughter of Joseph Zilberas of Keidan) Keidan (and later Kovno, earlier Krakes) family names Shterenfeld, Finkelstein, Rabinowitz and Lurie




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Harvey Kaplan <rvlkaplan@...>
                        To: JewishKeidan <JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: jgw111 <jgw111@...>
                        Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 1:01 pm
                        Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                         
                        Howard

                        Since I was tested in 2010, I've been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn't find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan!

                        I find it a bit hard to get my head round the whole dna thing! - alleles, haplogroups etc. I seem to be J2 and have been analysed on 12 markers. Looks like I could upgrade to 37 markers for 99 dollars, but reluctant to spend this when I've really got nothing out of the first test.

                        My family on the paternal side were Kaplan and Fayn from Ariogala (also Krakes, Grinkiskis), Josvainiai and latterly, Kedainiai for a short time in the 1880s.

                        best wishes

                        Harvey 

                        On 22 September 2012 15:43, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
                         
                        Josh,
                        I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
                        What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
                        For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
                        Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
                        Any other interest out there?
                        Howard
                        Howard


                        On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
                         
                        Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
                        It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                                  Josh

                        From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                        To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
                        Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                         
                        Fellow Keidaners,
                        Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                        Are you interested in doing so?
                        I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                        Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                        Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                        My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                        But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                        I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                        That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                        I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                        I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                        Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                        In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                        Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                        http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                        This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                        We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                        But maybe we match genetically?
                        I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                        They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                        I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                        I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                        Howard Wolinsky







                        --
                        Howard Wolinsky

                        708-799-0635 (landline)
                        312-909-2381 (mobile)
                        howardwolinsky (Skype)





                        --
                        Howard Wolinsky

                        708-799-0635 (landline)
                        312-909-2381 (mobile)
                        howardwolinsky (Skype)

                      • Howard Wolinsky
                        Lois, You must have missed the counter-proposal of testing for both males and females. This was $199 for Family Finder testing from FamilyTreeDNA. We re still
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 23, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Lois,
                          You must have missed the counter-proposal of testing for both males and females. This was $199 for Family Finder testing from FamilyTreeDNA.
                          We're still waiting for a response from 23andMe to see if they offer us a discount.
                          The goal here to find out if DNA will provide us information on our mutual history. No insult was intended from the initial offer. No decisions have made. We're still seeking information.
                          You of course are free to be tested on your own.
                          But working together, we may be able to achieve more than we could as individuals.
                          Howard




                          On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Lois <lockner@...> wrote:
                           

                          My grandfather was from Keidan.....born in 1898.....left in 1902 and came to America....I am very interested in getting dna testing.  However, I find the arguement for giving males a financial break is most obnoxious ......an ignorant and belittling decision..  If I wanted to pay full price would they turn me down?...I think not.  That in itself fails the sniff test. I think presented with this arguement they would struggle to find a coherent answer.  Sincerely, Lois Ockner

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Howard Wolinsky
                          Sent: Sep 23, 2012 5:29 AM
                          To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                           

                          I agree that we don't want to discriminate based on gender. I asked Bennett Greenspan what he thought would be the most effective testing--at least to start out. I asked about whether we can get a discount for the FamilyFinder testing.

                          On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:47 PM, <sharonsilber@...> wrote:
                           

                          I was quite interested to see the possibility of group genetic testing but disappointed to see it restricted to males. Is it really different to test females? (My 2 sisters and I are our Kedainai father's only living descendents). And if my son (or nephews) were tested would it only show genetic markers on the male (non-Keidan) side of the family? How much is the Family Finder test? I am new to all this. Sharon Silber (daughter of Joseph Zilberas of Keidan) Keidan (and later Kovno, earlier Krakes) family names Shterenfeld, Finkelstein, Rabinowitz and Lurie




                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Harvey Kaplan <rvlkaplan@...>
                          To: JewishKeidan <JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com>
                          Cc: jgw111 <jgw111@...>
                          Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 1:01 pm
                          Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                           
                          Howard

                          Since I was tested in 2010, I've been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn't find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan!

                          I find it a bit hard to get my head round the whole dna thing! - alleles, haplogroups etc. I seem to be J2 and have been analysed on 12 markers. Looks like I could upgrade to 37 markers for 99 dollars, but reluctant to spend this when I've really got nothing out of the first test.

                          My family on the paternal side were Kaplan and Fayn from Ariogala (also Krakes, Grinkiskis), Josvainiai and latterly, Kedainiai for a short time in the 1880s.

                          best wishes

                          Harvey 

                          On 22 September 2012 15:43, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
                           
                          Josh,
                          I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
                          What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
                          For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
                          Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
                          Any other interest out there?
                          Howard
                          Howard


                          On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
                           
                          Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
                          It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                                    Josh

                          From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                          To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
                          Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                           
                          Fellow Keidaners,
                          Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                          Are you interested in doing so?
                          I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                          Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                          Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                          My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                          But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                          I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                          That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                          I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                          I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                          Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                          In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                          Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                          http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                          This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                          We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                          But maybe we match genetically?
                          I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                          They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                          I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                          I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                          Howard Wolinsky







                          --
                          Howard Wolinsky

                          708-799-0635 (landline)
                          312-909-2381 (mobile)
                          howardwolinsky (Skype)





                          --
                          Howard Wolinsky

                          708-799-0635 (landline)
                          312-909-2381 (mobile)
                          howardwolinsky (Skype)




                          --
                          Howard Wolinsky

                          708-799-0635 (landline)
                          312-909-2381 (mobile)
                          howardwolinsky (Skype)

                        • Lois
                          I appreciate your clarification........I am sure no insult or slight was intended. As mentioned if there are no male descendents ( not my situation), that
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 23, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I appreciate your clarification........I am sure no insult or slight was intended.  As mentioned if there are no male descendents ( not my situation), that family would be omitted from this opportunity. Having them consider offering the test to all as part of a group discount makes perfect sense. Unless it is scientificially impossible, I can't imagine  a "no"!  Be well.  Lois Ockner
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Howard Wolinsky
                            Sent: Sep 23, 2012 5:59 PM
                            To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                             

                            Lois,

                            You must have missed the counter-proposal of testing for both males and females. This was $199 for Family Finder testing from FamilyTreeDNA.
                            We're still waiting for a response from 23andMe to see if they offer us a discount.
                            The goal here to find out if DNA will provide us information on our mutual history. No insult was intended from the initial offer. No decisions have made. We're still seeking information.
                            You of course are free to be tested on your own.
                            But working together, we may be able to achieve more than we could as individuals.
                            Howard




                            On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Lois <lockner@...> wrote:
                             

                            My grandfather was from Keidan.....born in 1898.....left in 1902 and came to America....I am very interested in getting dna testing.  However, I find the arguement for giving males a financial break is most obnoxious ......an ignorant and belittling decision..  If I wanted to pay full price would they turn me down?...I think not.  That in itself fails the sniff test. I think presented with this arguement they would struggle to find a coherent answer.  Sincerely, Lois Ockner

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Howard Wolinsky
                            Sent: Sep 23, 2012 5:29 AM
                            To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                             

                            I agree that we don't want to discriminate based on gender. I asked Bennett Greenspan what he thought would be the most effective testing--at least to start out. I asked about whether we can get a discount for the FamilyFinder testing.

                            On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:47 PM, <sharonsilber@...> wrote:
                             

                            I was quite interested to see the possibility of group genetic testing but disappointed to see it restricted to males. Is it really different to test females? (My 2 sisters and I are our Kedainai father's only living descendents). And if my son (or nephews) were tested would it only show genetic markers on the male (non-Keidan) side of the family? How much is the Family Finder test? I am new to all this. Sharon Silber (daughter of Joseph Zilberas of Keidan) Keidan (and later Kovno, earlier Krakes) family names Shterenfeld, Finkelstein, Rabinowitz and Lurie




                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Harvey Kaplan <rvlkaplan@...>
                            To: JewishKeidan <JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com>
                            Cc: jgw111 <jgw111@...>
                            Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 1:01 pm
                            Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                             
                            Howard

                            Since I was tested in 2010, I've been alerted to only 1 match and we couldn't find anything to connect us other than the name Kaplan!

                            I find it a bit hard to get my head round the whole dna thing! - alleles, haplogroups etc. I seem to be J2 and have been analysed on 12 markers. Looks like I could upgrade to 37 markers for 99 dollars, but reluctant to spend this when I've really got nothing out of the first test.

                            My family on the paternal side were Kaplan and Fayn from Ariogala (also Krakes, Grinkiskis), Josvainiai and latterly, Kedainiai for a short time in the 1880s.

                            best wishes

                            Harvey 

                            On 22 September 2012 15:43, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:
                             
                            Josh,
                            I can ask about FamilyFinder. ANy interest in 23andme?
                            What is your haplotype? (No need for your sign--but I am a Libra.)
                            For anyone who has been tested what are your haplotypes. I am in the old G2c. (It was just changed.)
                            Jews are closely related anyway. But I've had this vision of all Keidaners being tested and see if there are any clusters.
                            Any other interest out there?
                            Howard
                            Howard


                            On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
                             
                            Howard, excellent proposal. I have found such Y dna testing helpful in tracing my male line from Germany to Lithuania. So far my closest matches are not from Keidan although I have a number of close matches from Lithuania.
                            It is more expensive, but the Family Finder test may be more more helpful for recent relationships. You and I are distantly related on FF. Sally Mizroch, Ada Green and a member of the Chisis family are also cousins on FF.  In addition I have a number of matches from nearby areas such as Panevezh, Kelme, Wilkomir and Kovno. (Ironically Benett Greenspan himself is also listed as my distant cousin but he is not from Keidan). It would be nice if we could get a discount on Family Finder testing.
                                                                                                                      Josh

                            From: Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...>
                            To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:02 PM
                            Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                             
                            Fellow Keidaners,
                            Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                            Are you interested in doing so?
                            I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                            Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                            Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                            My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                            But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                            I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                            That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                            I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                            I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                            Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                            In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                            Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                            http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                            This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                            We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                            But maybe we match genetically?
                            I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                            They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                            I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                            I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                            Howard Wolinsky







                            --
                            Howard Wolinsky

                            708-799-0635 (landline)
                            312-909-2381 (mobile)
                            howardwolinsky (Skype)





                            --
                            Howard Wolinsky

                            708-799-0635 (landline)
                            312-909-2381 (mobile)
                            howardwolinsky (Skype)




                            --
                            Howard Wolinsky

                            708-799-0635 (landline)
                            312-909-2381 (mobile)
                            howardwolinsky (Skype)

                          • Ken & Gladys Camber
                            Hi Howard, I think your idea of forming a DNA group is an interesting one and worth pursuing. I had my paternal line checked through DNA testing ( Y-DNA
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 24, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Howard,
                                   I think your idea of forming a DNA group is an interesting one and worth pursuing.  I had my paternal line checked through DNA testing ("Y-DNA" test) with a different organization a couple of years ago for my connection to the Kamber family from Keidan, before I learned of Family Tree DNA.  I subsequently used Family Tree DNA for testing my maternal line (mitochondrial "mtDNA" test), although that has no connection with Lithuania.
                                   For my paternal line, I have the results which I would be willing to share with others for purposes of a group trying to find a connection with other families in Lithuania.  (They say that I am in paternal haplogroup "J1.")  However, I doubt that there is a way to actually import the results from my test into a group at the Family Tree DNA website.  It's probably not worth the expense of having my paternal test re-done at Family Tree DNA just for purposes of having the results listed there, so I don't know how much value there would be to my trying to participate in a group.
                                   I noticed that at Family Tree DNA it mentions that it is possible to get a discount by joining an existing "surname project" at their website and then ordering a test kit as a member of the surname project.  I haven't found where they might say how much of a discount that would be or whether this would apply to a surname project which we might start there as a Keidan Project or some such thing.
                                      Ken Camber
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:02 PM
                              Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for KeidanersFellow Keidaners,
                              Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                              Are you interested in doing so?
                              I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                              Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                              Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                              My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                              But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                              I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                              That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                              I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                              I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                              Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                              In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                              Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                              http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                              This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                              We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                              But maybe we match genetically?
                              I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                              They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                              I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                              I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                              Howard Wolinsky


                            • Josh Weinstein
                              Ken,         Depending on the other company, it may be possible to import results to FTDNA for more than a nominal fee----you may also have to pay for
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 24, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Ken,
                                        Depending on the other company, it may be possible to import results to FTDNA for more than a nominal fee----you may also have to pay for testing a few more markers to be consonant with FTDNA's set of markers. If you are interested, I think there is information at FTDNA's  website.
                                                                      Josh

                                From: Ken & Gladys Camber <hapnken@...>
                                To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 2:03 PM
                                Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                                 
                                Hi Howard,
                                     I think your idea of forming a DNA group is an interesting one and worth pursuing.  I had my paternal line checked through DNA testing ("Y-DNA" test) with a different organization a couple of years ago for my connection to the Kamber family from Keidan, before I learned of Family Tree DNA.  I subsequently used Family Tree DNA for testing my maternal line (mitochondrial "mtDNA" test), although that has no connection with Lithuania.
                                     For my paternal line, I have the results which I would be willing to share with others for purposes of a group trying to find a connection with other families in Lithuania.  (They say that I am in paternal haplogroup "J1.")  However, I doubt that there is a way to actually import the results from my test into a group at the Family Tree DNA website.  It's probably not worth the expense of having my paternal test re-done at Family Tree DNA just for purposes of having the results listed there, so I don't know how much value there would be to my trying to participate in a group.
                                     I noticed that at Family Tree DNA it mentions that it is possible to get a discount by joining an existing "surname project" at their website and then ordering a test kit as a member of the surname project.  I haven't found where they might say how much of a discount that would be or whether this would apply to a surname project which we might start there as a Keidan Project or some such thing.
                                        Ken Camber
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:02 PM
                                Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for KeidanersFellow Keidaners,
                                Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                                Are you interested in doing so?
                                I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                                Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                                Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                                My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                                But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                                I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                                That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                                I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                                I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                                Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                                In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                                Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                                http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                                This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                                We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                                But maybe we match genetically?
                                I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                                They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                                I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                                I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                                Howard Wolinsky




                              • Josh Weinstein
                                P.S. There may be some value in importing Y dna results to FTDNA. It is quite likely that the number of your matches will increase. The reason is that FTDNA
                                Message 15 of 16 , Sep 25, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  P.S. There may be some value in importing Y dna results to FTDNA. It is quite likely that the number of your matches will increase. The reason is that FTDNA has an overrepresentation (compared to US and world populations) of Jewish consumers, i.e. there are more people with which to match. I don't know if this is the case with Family Finder results.
                                                               Josh

                                  From: Ken & Gladys Camber <hapnken@...>
                                  To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 2:03 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for Keidaners

                                   
                                  Hi Howard,
                                       I think your idea of forming a DNA group is an interesting one and worth pursuing.  I had my paternal line checked through DNA testing ("Y-DNA" test) with a different organization a couple of years ago for my connection to the Kamber family from Keidan, before I learned of Family Tree DNA.  I subsequently used Family Tree DNA for testing my maternal line (mitochondrial "mtDNA" test), although that has no connection with Lithuania.
                                       For my paternal line, I have the results which I would be willing to share with others for purposes of a group trying to find a connection with other families in Lithuania.  (They say that I am in paternal haplogroup "J1.")  However, I doubt that there is a way to actually import the results from my test into a group at the Family Tree DNA website.  It's probably not worth the expense of having my paternal test re-done at Family Tree DNA just for purposes of having the results listed there, so I don't know how much value there would be to my trying to participate in a group.
                                       I noticed that at Family Tree DNA it mentions that it is possible to get a discount by joining an existing "surname project" at their website and then ordering a test kit as a member of the surname project.  I haven't found where they might say how much of a discount that would be or whether this would apply to a surname project which we might start there as a Keidan Project or some such thing.
                                          Ken Camber
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:02 PM
                                  Subject: [JewishKeidan] A modest genetic proposal for KeidanersFellow Keidaners,
                                  Have any of you been tested to determine your genetic roots?
                                  Are you interested in doing so?
                                  I have negotiated a deal for our group to undergo 37-marker tests through FamilyTreeDNA.com, which has a large Jewish database.
                                  Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in this.
                                  Before I get into more details, let me tell you more about myself.
                                  My grandfather Hillel Sragan was born in Keidan back in the 1870s and our family had been in Keidan at least 150 years before that.
                                  But I always wondered where the Sragans came from before Keidan.
                                  I thought emerging DNA research might provide some clues about the missing years.
                                  That's why 11 years ago, I was among the first people to undergo genetic testing to try to determine my family genetic origins.
                                  I was customer #65 at  FamilyTreeDNA,com.
                                  I turned out to have a rare G genetic type and for years had few genetic matches.
                                  Earlier this year, for the first time I had 67 marker (out of 67 markers) with a man from the Zacuto family. Abraham Zacuto was a Spanish astronomer who introduced Columbus to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I had never considered the possibility that my ancestors came from France and then Spain and then out with the Inquistion. The Zacutos made their way as far East at least as Belarus and apparently dropped my relations off in Lithuania.
                                  In any case, this posed an interesting possible angle to my family's roots.
                                  Andy Cassel, knowing my interest in DNA and family history, sent me an article from Moment magazine about tests by 23andme, another player in the genetic testing business, of some prominent Jews.
                                  http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2012/10/GreatDNAExperiment.html
                                  This started a discussion about the possibilities of having the Keidan group tested.
                                  We may have different surnames. But we didn't get those names until the early 1800s.
                                  But maybe we match genetically?
                                  I asked Bennett Greenspan, founder of FamilytreeDNA.com, one of the leading DNA testing groups, the one tied in with National Geographic, if he could offer us a discount. He feels it would be most effective to treat the men because the women back when tended to come from local populations. He said he would do a Y marker test for men for $119. The list price is $169.
                                  They send you a kit. You scrape a sample cheek cells that you place in a vial. FTDNA extracts the DNA and gives you a report on your markers online.
                                  I likewise could approach 23andme and ask if they would offer a rate. They also have a large Jewish client base. They offer a test of more markers with medical information.
                                  I wanted to gauge interest. Let me know what you think.

                                  Howard Wolinsky




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