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RE: [JewishKeidan] Mogel Family

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  • Belinda Kaye
    Many thanks - I m from London and not really up on all the different societies but going by the advice given I think my best bet would be to look for Kovner
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 11, 2007
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      Many thanks - I'm from London and not really up on all the different societies but going by the advice given I think my best bet would be to look for Kovner Burial Societies.
       
       
       
      Belinda Kaye

      Linda Dubins <lindadubins@...> wrote:
      There is also a Keidan section of a cemetery in Queens, NY.




      To: JewishKeidan@ yahoogroups. com
      From: w2lap@verizon. net
      Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 12:33:29 -0500
      Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] Mogel Family

      I see where you got an answer from Ada Green, who really knows her Keiden history. She is the one to carry on. Indeed, she mentioned where Dora's family came from (not Keidan). I took the liberty of contacting Mt. Carmel for you. No Mogel is interred there.
       
      If you wish to contact Washington Cemetery (NOT Mt. Washington, I erred) the address is Washington Cemetery, 5400 Bay Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11230.
       
      Listen to Ada, she is a champ on this.
       
      Gus.
      ----- Original Message -----
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    • Ada Green
      Thanks very much, Gus and Belinda, for such nice compliments about my research work on Keidaners buried in US Keidaner burial society plots and glad it was
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 11, 2007
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        Thanks very much, Gus and Belinda, for such nice compliments about my
        research work on Keidaners buried in US Keidaner burial society plots and
        glad it was helpful to both of you.

        To those of you who aren't aware, not only did I catalog the burials in the
        Keidaner plot at Mt. Hebron Cemetery in Flushing, Queens, NY (which is the
        smallest of the Keidaner plots), but also the ones in the all the other
        Keidaner plots known to be in existence (3 at Washington Cemetery in
        Brooklyn, one at Montefiore Cemetery in St. Albans, Queens, and the Kadaner
        Unt. Verein at Waldheim Cemetery in Chicago).

        I have also cataloged the burials in the landsmanshaftn plots in the New
        York metropolitan area for all towns in the entire Kaunas uyezd that have
        them, including Kaunas (Kovno), Vilijampole (Slobodka), Ariogala (Rogale),
        Krakes (Krok), Babtai (Bobt), Jonava, Seredzius (Szrednik) and Vilkija
        (Vilki). For all of these particular landsmanshaftn plots, with the
        exception of Babtai, Jonava, and Seredzius/Vilkija, I have looked up the
        New York City death certificate for each pre-1949 burial that has one on
        file and added the information to the database (see the next paragraph as
        to which database I am referring). That's how I knew that Dora MOGEL's
        maiden name was ARONOFSKY because that information is not found on her
        gravestone. [Kaunas uyezd towns in the vicinity of Keidan that
        unfortunately have no landsmanshaftn plots are Josvainiai, Dotnuva,
        Grinkiskis, Cekiske, Labunava, Vandziogala, Veliuona, and Zeimiai.]

        These burials can be searched in the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial
        Registry (JOWBR) at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/ . The
        Keidaner burials are also listed on Andy Cassel's "A Hole In the Heart"
        Keidan website at http://www.keidan.net/ , although the information on them
        gleaned from the New York City death certificates can be found only in the
        JOWBR.

        Belinda, your gggm Dora MOGEL, who died in Brooklyn on 4 January 1922 at
        the age of 75, is not buried in any of the aforementioned landsmanshaftn
        plots -- neither for Keidan, nor Kovno, nor for any of the other shtetls in
        Kaunas uyezd. Please don't assume that just because someone was from a
        certain town that they were buried in the landsmanshaftn plot for that
        town. Not only could Jewish immigrants have been buried in a
        landsmanshaftn plot that wasn't from the town or even the country that they
        hailed from, but they could have been buried in a synagogue plot or some
        other type of organizational plot (occupational, labor, fraternal,
        etc.). My gf's sister, Lena GREENBLATT RICEMAN, and her husband Max
        RICEMAN, who were both from Seta (Shat), Lithuania (near Keidan), are for
        unknown reason buried in a plot for Chomsk, Belarus in Chicago's Waldheim
        Cemetery.

        So for your own sake please don't spin any more wheels looking for Dora
        MOGEL in either Keidan or Kovno plots. And no need to write Washington
        Cemetery in Brooklyn. I will try to call them on the first day that I will
        be home this week during their regular business hours and see if Dora MOGEL
        is buried elsewhere in their cemetery. Gus is correct that she is not
        buried in New Mt. Carmel Cemetery. A search of the Mt. Carmel/New Mt.
        Carmel online interment database at
        http://www.mountcarmelcemetery.com/search.asp just for the first name Dora
        in the year 1922 (regardless of surname) shows only 2 people by that
        name. This is assuming that their database is complete, of course. I have
        no reason to doubt that their database is not complete because out of the 8
        burial societies that I have cataloged in Mt. Carmel and New Mt. Carmel
        Cemeteries, all the burials are in their online database.

        The next time I go to Mt. Hebron Cemetery I will ask the office if they can
        show me a plot map for Chevra Bnei Israel Anshe Keidan to see whether it
        can shed any further light as to why 22 of the 49 burials in the plot,
        including Max MOGEL, are considered part of the adjacent Kovner Unt.
        Verein. Perhaps there's a pattern that I'm not aware of, such as only
        those buried in the back row. Although I don't have any immediate plans to
        go to Mt. Hebron in the near future, when I do I will report back here if I
        discover the answer to the mystery that I related here several days ago.

        Ada Green
      • Gus Levy
        ADA - - - you are a champion! Gus
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 11, 2007
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          ADA - - - you are a champion!
          Gus
          ----- Original Message -----
        • Belinda Kaye
          Dear Ada Thank you so much for such an interesting and informative reply. I thought Dora was buried in New Mt Carmel as it is written on her Death
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 13, 2007
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            Dear Ada
             
            Thank you so much for such an interesting and informative reply.  I thought Dora was buried in New Mt Carmel as it is written on her Death Certificate.  As for me in London its very confusing with regard to burials in the USA with regard to the societies etc. However you have explained it brilliantly.
             
            I will now widen my search on the Lithuanian databases!
             
            As you probably can tell I am quite new to this and am astonished at how kind and helpful people are. If I can be of help to anyone from here in London I will be delighted to help.
             
            Once again my thanks to you.
             
            Belinda Kaye
             
             
             
             
             
             
             





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          • GERRICA@aol.com
            I saw your letter on the digest. I don t suppose that your surname was Kaminsky before it was Kaye, was it? Rica B Goldberg Manchester, UK Still
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 13, 2007
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              I saw your letter on the digest. 
               
               I don't suppose that your surname was Kaminsky before it was Kaye, was it?
               
              Rica B Goldberg
              Manchester, UK
               
              Still researching:- ESTRY from somewhere in Poland; BERLINSKIE from Charlottenburg in Berlin; KAMENSHCHIK from Zeimia and Jonova in Lithuania; DIAMOND from Kovno Gubernia; FRANK from Garliava in Lithuania; LEVI & LESCZINSKIJ from Sompolno in Poland; PETEROFSKIE from Poland, SHELENGER/SHLESINGER (or SHLUZITEL)  from Vabalninkas in Lithuania.
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