- Dear Ada
Thank you so much for such a detailed reply. Obviously living in
London I had no idea about the confusion over the different society
Plots. However if you don't understand what went on at the cemetery
I'm not even going to try to figure it out from here.
I will take your advice and who knows I may even find the origins to
Dvora and Yitzhak - my Great Great Grandparents.
On a more personal note I wish to take this opportunity to thank you
for your fantastic work and extensive research. I had no previous
knowledge of Max Mogel which in turn lead me to Dvora and her other
children in the USA.
Once again thank you so much.
Researching Mogel Aaronosky Kravitz - Lithuania
- Dear GusThanks so much for contacting the cemetery. I will now write to Washington Cemetery to see whether she is buried there.I hope to go to New York later this year and now I know my Great Great Grandmother is buried in the City I hope to be able to locate and visit her.I greatly appreciate your help.Belinda Kaye
- Many thanks - I'm from London and not really up on all the different societies but going by the advice given I think my best bet would be to look for Kovner Burial Societies.Belinda Kaye
Linda Dubins <lindadubins@...> wrote:There is also a Keidan section of a cemetery in Queens, NY.
To: JewishKeidan@ yahoogroups. com
From: w2lap@verizon. net
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 12:33:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] Mogel FamilyI see where you got an answer from Ada Green, who really knows her Keiden history. She is the one to carry on. Indeed, she mentioned where Dora's family came from (not Keidan). I took the liberty of contacting Mt. Carmel for you. No Mogel is interred there.If you wish to contact Washington Cemetery (NOT Mt. Washington, I erred) the address is Washington Cemetery, 5400 Bay Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11230.Listen to Ada, she is a champ on this.Gus.----- Original Message -----From: Belinda KayeTo:
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- Thanks very much, Gus and Belinda, for such nice compliments about my
research work on Keidaners buried in US Keidaner burial society plots and
glad it was helpful to both of you.
To those of you who aren't aware, not only did I catalog the burials in the
Keidaner plot at Mt. Hebron Cemetery in Flushing, Queens, NY (which is the
smallest of the Keidaner plots), but also the ones in the all the other
Keidaner plots known to be in existence (3 at Washington Cemetery in
Brooklyn, one at Montefiore Cemetery in St. Albans, Queens, and the Kadaner
Unt. Verein at Waldheim Cemetery in Chicago).
I have also cataloged the burials in the landsmanshaftn plots in the New
York metropolitan area for all towns in the entire Kaunas uyezd that have
them, including Kaunas (Kovno), Vilijampole (Slobodka), Ariogala (Rogale),
Krakes (Krok), Babtai (Bobt), Jonava, Seredzius (Szrednik) and Vilkija
(Vilki). For all of these particular landsmanshaftn plots, with the
exception of Babtai, Jonava, and Seredzius/Vilkija, I have looked up the
New York City death certificate for each pre-1949 burial that has one on
file and added the information to the database (see the next paragraph as
to which database I am referring). That's how I knew that Dora MOGEL's
maiden name was ARONOFSKY because that information is not found on her
gravestone. [Kaunas uyezd towns in the vicinity of Keidan that
unfortunately have no landsmanshaftn plots are Josvainiai, Dotnuva,
Grinkiskis, Cekiske, Labunava, Vandziogala, Veliuona, and Zeimiai.]
These burials can be searched in the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial
Registry (JOWBR) at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/ . The
Keidaner burials are also listed on Andy Cassel's "A Hole In the Heart"
Keidan website at http://www.keidan.net/ , although the information on them
gleaned from the New York City death certificates can be found only in the
Belinda, your gggm Dora MOGEL, who died in Brooklyn on 4 January 1922 at
the age of 75, is not buried in any of the aforementioned landsmanshaftn
plots -- neither for Keidan, nor Kovno, nor for any of the other shtetls in
Kaunas uyezd. Please don't assume that just because someone was from a
certain town that they were buried in the landsmanshaftn plot for that
town. Not only could Jewish immigrants have been buried in a
landsmanshaftn plot that wasn't from the town or even the country that they
hailed from, but they could have been buried in a synagogue plot or some
other type of organizational plot (occupational, labor, fraternal,
etc.). My gf's sister, Lena GREENBLATT RICEMAN, and her husband Max
RICEMAN, who were both from Seta (Shat), Lithuania (near Keidan), are for
unknown reason buried in a plot for Chomsk, Belarus in Chicago's Waldheim
So for your own sake please don't spin any more wheels looking for Dora
MOGEL in either Keidan or Kovno plots. And no need to write Washington
Cemetery in Brooklyn. I will try to call them on the first day that I will
be home this week during their regular business hours and see if Dora MOGEL
is buried elsewhere in their cemetery. Gus is correct that she is not
buried in New Mt. Carmel Cemetery. A search of the Mt. Carmel/New Mt.
Carmel online interment database at
http://www.mountcarmelcemetery.com/search.asp just for the first name Dora
in the year 1922 (regardless of surname) shows only 2 people by that
name. This is assuming that their database is complete, of course. I have
no reason to doubt that their database is not complete because out of the 8
burial societies that I have cataloged in Mt. Carmel and New Mt. Carmel
Cemeteries, all the burials are in their online database.
The next time I go to Mt. Hebron Cemetery I will ask the office if they can
show me a plot map for Chevra Bnei Israel Anshe Keidan to see whether it
can shed any further light as to why 22 of the 49 burials in the plot,
including Max MOGEL, are considered part of the adjacent Kovner Unt.
Verein. Perhaps there's a pattern that I'm not aware of, such as only
those buried in the back row. Although I don't have any immediate plans to
go to Mt. Hebron in the near future, when I do I will report back here if I
discover the answer to the mystery that I related here several days ago.
- Dear AdaThank you so much for such an interesting and informative reply. I thought Dora was buried in New Mt Carmel as it is written on her Death Certificate. As for me in London its very confusing with regard to burials in the USA with regard to the societies etc. However you have explained it brilliantly.I will now widen my search on the Lithuanian databases!As you probably can tell I am quite new to this and am astonished at how kind and helpful people are. If I can be of help to anyone from here in London I will be delighted to help.Once again my thanks to you.Belinda Kaye
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- I saw your letter on the digest.I don't suppose that your surname was Kaminsky before it was Kaye, was it?Rica B GoldbergManchester, UKStill researching:- ESTRY from somewhere in Poland; BERLINSKIE from Charlottenburg in Berlin; KAMENSHCHIK from Zeimia and Jonova in Lithuania; DIAMOND from Kovno Gubernia; FRANK from Garliava in Lithuania; LEVI & LESCZINSKIJ from Sompolno in Poland; PETEROFSKIE from Poland, SHELENGER/SHLESINGER (or SHLUZITEL) from Vabalninkas in Lithuania.