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908Re: [JewishKeidan] Digest Number 372[1 Attachment]

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  • davinajackie Shmueli
    Apr 16, 2014
    • 0 Attachment
      ​Shalom and greetings to Bension,Laima and all,Bension writes about the last rabbi of Kedaine Shlomo Feinzilber.It might be of interest that on my last visit to Vilnius I was lucky to find in a dusty pile of books a book written by him in 1933 Jeriot Slomo(Talmudo aiskinimai)rabino S.Feinzilberio.Kedainiai 1933m. Mopsoviaus ir Kagano spaustuve Kedainiai,(Lithuania) Printed in Litauen.May he rest in peace. Yours Jackie Shmueli  Moshav Orot Israel.​


      On 16 April 2014 08:48, bentsion <bentsion@...> wrote:
       

      Hello Laima,

       

      My two great-grandparents are buried in this Jewish cemetery. My grandmother and father were born in Keidan (in the green house on the market square). I was born in Soviet Vilnius and now I live in Israel.

       

      In the 19th century, the Keidanian community was one of the important Lithuanian Jewish communities. In the thirties of the 20th century, the last Rabbi of Keidan, the prominent and genius Shlomo Finezilber, was the head of the Lithuanian Rabbinical Council! These are historic facts that your students should know. Unfortunately, the rabbi's and his community's fates were the same as the fates of all the Lithuanian Jews; just two-three (!) Keidanian Jews succeeded in escaping the horrible massacres executed by their neighbors and a single German.

       

      Best wishes,

       

      Ben-Tsiyon Klibansky

       

      From: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laimukas
      Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:32 AM
      To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] Digest Number 372[1 Attachment] [3 Attachments]

       

      Dear All,

       

      Thank you for sharing the photos. I have made the presentation. 

       

      I would like to ask you to add the notes bellow the photos. You can edit the presentation.

       

      On Palm Sunday here my friend and I visited Jewish cemetry.

       

      All the best,

      Laima

       

      "Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
      Be honest and frank anyway."

      On Saturday, 12 April 2014, 21:28, אבשי <avshi_h@...> wrote:

       

      HI ELI.

      I INVITE YOU TO VISIT ME IN KIBUTZ  BET ZERA – EMEK HAYARDEN. MY TEL- 04/6775000,  MOB. 054/6769140.

      אלי שלום וחג –שמח.

      התרשמתי ממה ואיך שכתבת. ואני מזמין אותך לבקר ולהיפגש בבית-זרע.

      נפלה לנו הזדמנות פז – לפתח דיאלוג בנושא באופן נכון וערכי – ולנסות ולהשפיע לעתיד.

      אבי – פסח חטין (ווייצער) היה מסור ומכור לקהילת קיידני בפרט , ליטא בכלל והיהודים באשר הם. ניתן לקרוא זאת בספר על קיידאן שהיה שותף לכתיבתו. אני חש – שהיה רוצה ליצור את הקשרים וההנצחה ליהדות קיידאן ברוח הגישה

      של ליימה. אמי – שיינקה לבית גולצין,  שהשאירה לנצח בקיידאן אחות +בעל ו- 8 בנות ובנים (מש. פרוסק). יוסף הבכור – היה ראש הקן האחרון בקיידאן,  "מחקה" את הליטאים ...

       

      התרשמתי שאתה גר בארץ – לכן כתבתי בעברית, "קשה" לי באנגלית.

       

      חג שמח.

       

      אבשלום חטין בית זרע

       

       

      מאת: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] בשם Eli Rabinowitz
      נשלח: Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:41 AM
      אל: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      נושא: Re: [JewishKeidan] Digest Number 372[1 Attachment]

       

       

      Hi All

       

      Thanks for the responses.

       

      I agree with you, Howard. It is not a cheery story and I believe that Laima needs to and will tell her students exactly why there are no Jews in towns that were thriving communities before the Holocaust. It is also important for us as Jews with Litvak heritage, to visit Lithuania to meet and interact with these kids.

       

      My point is that Laima is a teacher and not a politician, and so we need to interact with her on an educational level and not put pressure on her as if she was making government policy!

       

      I am sure that people like Olga, who have spent many years on committees dealing with politicians, are doing an excellent job and need to keep the pressure up at that level. 

      I am not involved in politics at all. Thank G-d! I do not care for it or the people involved. 

      I am a fashion agent, photographer and videographer. I have deep roots in Lithuania, Latvia and Poland and my yichus is as important as Olga's achievements. What counts for me as a Jew, is that when I encounter special people like Laima in my travels, and I want to show my support for them and work with them to make this a better world! 

       

      I blog about my experiences, mainly in the form of photos.

       

       

      I write kehilalinks for JewishGen, including one for Kedainiai:

       

       

       

      I wish all well!

       

      That is all!

       

      Chag Pesach Sameach

       

      Eli 

       

       

      On 11 Apr 2014, at 5:55 pm, JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com wrote:

       

      13 Messages

      Digest #372

      1a

      Re: School in keidan [1 Attachment] by "Tamar Dothan"

      2a

      Re: Cultural Diversity by "Howard Wolinsky" wolinsky@...

      2b

      Re: Cultural Diversity by "Olga Zabludoff" ozabludoff

      2c

      Re: Cultural Diversity by "Tamar Dothan"

      3a

      Re: School in keidan by "Leon Goldsmith"

      3b

      Re: School in keidan by "Tamar Dothan"

      4a

      Re: Rooted in Keidan by "אבשי"

      4b

      Re: Rooted in Keidan by "Laimukas" laimasmile2000

      4c

      Re: Rooted in Keidan by "Laimukas" laimasmile2000

      4d

      Re: Rooted in Keidan [2 Attachments] by "Howard Wolinsky" wolinsky@...

      5

      Fwd: Keidan photos by "Sharon Silber"

      6a

      Fwd: Kedain school photo by "Sharon Silber"

      6b

      Re: Fwd: Kedain school photo [1 Attachment] by "Tamar Dothan"

       

      Messages

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:40 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Tamar Dothan"

      Hi Sharon,

      It says: The yiddish school in Keidan.

      Tamar Dothan

      From: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Sharon Silber
      Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:27 AM
      To: jewishkeidan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [JewishKeidan] School in keidan [1 Attachment]

      [Attachment(s) from Sharon Silber included below] 

      My grandmother is the woman with lighter hair in the row behind the
      children. You should be able to enlarge to view to see details. Anyone else
      recognize someone?

      _____ 

      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6820 - Release Date: 04/09/14

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:40 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Howard Wolinsky" wolinsky@...

      Eli,
      It's not a matter of dumping guilt.
      It's just telling a complete story.
      My grandfather left a generation before the Holocaust so I am somewhat
      disconnected as well.
      But just telling a cheery, incomplete story does not serve the truth.
      I wonder how much these students know about what happened in their country
      in WWII and after.
      Their teacher should seize the opportunity to tell them why there are no
      more Jews there.
      Howard Wolinsky

      On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Eli Rabinowitz <eli@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Hi All
      >
      > I have been following the correspondence on the Yahoo group. Laima is
      > doing a great job!
      >
      > I assume that she is not Jewish, and that she wants to connect her
      > students with the Jewish history and culture that was so significant in
      > Lithuania for hundreds of years pre WWII.
      >
      > My third great grandfather was Avraham Shlomo Zalman Tzoref, who was born
      > in Keidan in 1785 and and left in 1811 for Jerusalem, where he established
      > the first ashkenazi community in the Old City. As my ancestors left
      > Lithuania long before the Holocaust, I tend to see things a little
      > differently.
      >
      > I fully understand that many people can never forgive, but Laima is a
      > teacher who is trying to build bridges, and what she is doing is highly
      > commendable in my book.
      >
      > I do not see the point of dumping guilt on her and the younger generation.
      > We all should be willing to help educate Lithuanian children about Jewish
      > life throughout the times, including a contemporary view.
      >
      > Therefore, connections between Lithuanians and Jews should be encouraged
      > and we should not walk away from our role in this education!
      >
      > Best regards
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Eli
      > eli@...
      >
      >
      > 
      >

      -- 
      Howard Wolinsky

      708-799-0635 (landline)
      312-909-2381 (mobile)
      howardwolinsky (Skype)

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:12 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Olga Zabludoff" ozabludoff

      Eli,

      Howard Wolinsky has already said it very concisely, but let me add a few
      words. You are missing the point entirely in saying that this is about
      "dumping guilt on Laima and her students." I thought we made it very clear
      that this is not our agenda. Nothing is gained in creating an atmosphere of
      divisiveness. We are trying to have an open dialogue on a crucial subject.

      I am quite satisfied that Laima is entirely sincere in what she is doing
      with her students, and I am aware that her job is not easy. She is showing
      moral courage in a climate where politics is not always conducive to truth
      and clarity. I don't wish to sound arrogant, but let me assure you that I am
      coming from a broad knowledge base. I have spent more than 20 years
      following Lithuanian-Jewish issues, including having served on a Think Tank
      at the Lithuanian Embassy in Washington, DC. The Lithuanian Ambassador to
      the US and members of his staff, as well as Lithuanian-Americans and Jews,
      were in the group. The bottom line is that Lithuania is still far behind in
      coming to terms with its past. You can talk about "building bridges," but
      before that can happen there has to be a foundation for the bridge. If you
      would understand the current politics and policies of the Lithuanian
      government, you might realize how difficult it is to achieve a
      reconciliation.

      Olga 

      From: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Howard Wolinsky
      Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 11:17 PM
      To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] Re: Cultural Diversity

      Eli,

      It's not a matter of dumping guilt. 

      It's just telling a complete story.

      My grandfather left a generation before the Holocaust so I am somewhat
      disconnected as well.

      But just telling a cheery, incomplete story does not serve the truth.

      I wonder how much these students know about what happened in their country
      in WWII and after.

      Their teacher should seize the opportunity to tell them why there are no
      more Jews there.

      Howard Wolinsky

      On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Eli Rabinowitz <eli@...> wrote:

      Hi All

      I have been following the correspondence on the Yahoo group. Laima is doing
      a great job!

      I assume that she is not Jewish, and that she wants to connect her students
      with the Jewish history and culture that was so significant in Lithuania for
      hundreds of years pre WWII.

      My third great grandfather was Avraham Shlomo Zalman Tzoref, who was born in
      Keidan in 1785 and and left in 1811 for Jerusalem, where he established the
      first ashkenazi community in the Old City. As my ancestors left Lithuania
      long before the Holocaust, I tend to see things a little differently.

      I fully understand that many people can never forgive, but Laima is a
      teacher who is trying to build bridges, and what she is doing is highly
      commendable in my book.

      I do not see the point of dumping guilt on her and the younger generation.
      We all should be willing to help educate Lithuanian children about Jewish
      life throughout the times, including a contemporary view.

      Therefore, connections between Lithuanians and Jews should be encouraged and
      we should not walk away from our role in this education!

      Best regards

      Eli 

      eli@...

      -- 
      Howard Wolinsky

      708-799-0635 (landline)
      312-909-2381 (mobile)
      howardwolinsky (Skype)

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:13 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Tamar Dothan"

      As one of those being "accused" of "dumping guilt" on Laima and the younger
      generation, let me just add that this is not my intention. But the issues
      involved are complex, and at least for some of us there are no simple
      answers. Teachers should certainly be exposed to the complexity. 

      Tamar Dothan

      From: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Olga Zabludoff
      Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 7:11 PM
      To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [JewishKeidan] Re: Cultural Diversity

      Eli,

      Howard Wolinsky has already said it very concisely, but let me add a few
      words. You are missing the point entirely in saying that this is about
      "dumping guilt on Laima and her students." I thought we made it very clear
      that this is not our agenda. Nothing is gained in creating an atmosphere of
      divisiveness. We are trying to have an open dialogue on a crucial subject.

      I am quite satisfied that Laima is entirely sincere in what she is doing
      with her students, and I am aware that her job is not easy. She is showing
      moral courage in a climate where politics is not always conducive to truth
      and clarity. I don't wish to sound arrogant, but let me assure you that I am
      coming from a broad knowledge base. I have spent more than 20 years
      following Lithuanian-Jewish issues, including having served on a Think Tank
      at the Lithuanian Embassy in Washington, DC. The Lithuanian Ambassador to
      the US and members of his staff, as well as Lithuanian-Americans and Jews,
      were in the group. The bottom line is that Lithuania is still far behind in
      coming to terms with its past. You can talk about "building bridges," but
      before that can happen there has to be a foundation for the bridge. If you
      would understand the current politics and policies of the Lithuanian
      government, you might realize how difficult it is to achieve a
      reconciliation.

      Olga 

      From: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Howard Wolinsky
      Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 11:17 PM
      To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] Re: Cultural Diversity

      Eli,

      It's not a matter of dumping guilt. 

      It's just telling a complete story.

      My grandfather left a generation before the Holocaust so I am somewhat
      disconnected as well.

      But just telling a cheery, incomplete story does not serve the truth.

      I wonder how much these students know about what happened in their country
      in WWII and after.

      Their teacher should seize the opportunity to tell them why there are no
      more Jews there.

      Howard Wolinsky

      On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Eli Rabinowitz <eli@...> wrote:

      Hi All

      I have been following the correspondence on the Yahoo group. Laima is doing
      a great job!

      I assume that she is not Jewish, and that she wants to connect her students
      with the Jewish history and culture that was so significant in Lithuania for
      hundreds of years pre WWII.

      My third great grandfather was Avraham Shlomo Zalman Tzoref, who was born in
      Keidan in 1785 and and left in 1811 for Jerusalem, where he established the
      first ashkenazi community in the Old City. As my ancestors left Lithuania
      long before the Holocaust, I tend to see things a little differently.

      I fully understand that many people can never forgive, but Laima is a
      teacher who is trying to build bridges, and what she is doing is highly
      commendable in my book.

      I do not see the point of dumping guilt on her and the younger generation.
      We all should be willing to help educate Lithuanian children about Jewish
      life throughout the times, including a contemporary view.

      Therefore, connections between Lithuanians and Jews should be encouraged and
      we should not walk away from our role in this education!

      Best regards

      Eli 

      eli@...

      -- 
      Howard Wolinsky

      708-799-0635 (landline)
      312-909-2381 (mobile)
      howardwolinsky (Skype)

      _____ 

      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6825 - Release Date: 04/10/14

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:40 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Leon Goldsmith"

      Hi Sharon,
      The text is:
      Bet Hasefer Hayidishai BeKeidan (Keidan Jewish School)

      On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Sharon Silber <sharonsilber@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > In the photos I sent you can click on it and it will open on the yahoo
      > groups page and you can download and so see it enlarged and complete (both
      > the photos are cut off in the email). In this photo with my grandmother,
      > the school is called bet hasefer haishaiyah ba keidan. Keidan Yiddish
      > School maybe, does anyone know what this is? The middle word is a little
      > hard for me to decipher. Thanks, Sharon
      >
      > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Sharon Silber <sharonsilber@...>
      > To: jewishkeidan <jewishkeidan@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wed, Apr 9, 2014 09:51 PM
      > Subject: [JewishKeidan] School in keidan [1 Attachment]
      >
      >
      >
      > [Attachment(s) <#14549855f439afea_aolmail_TopText> from Sharon Silber
      > included below]
      >
      > My grandmother is the woman with lighter hair in the row behind the
      > children. You should be able to enlarge to view to see details. Anyone else
      > recognize someone?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      > 
      >

      -- 
      http://www.leongoldsmith.com/wordpress

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:19 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "Tamar Dothan"

      As the text is in Hebrew, "Hayidishai" refers to the Yiddish language.

      Tamar 

      From: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Leon Goldsmith
      Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:00 AM
      To: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [JewishKeidan] School in keidan

      Hi Sharon,

      The text is:

      Bet Hasefer Hayidishai BeKeidan (Keidan Jewish School)

      On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Sharon Silber <sharonsilber@...> wrote:

      In the photos I sent you can click on it and it will open on the yahoo
      groups page and you can download and so see it enlarged and complete (both
      the photos are cut off in the email). In this photo with my grandmother, the
      school is called bet hasefer haishaiyah ba keidan. Keidan Yiddish School
      maybe, does anyone know what this is? The middle word is a little hard for
      me to decipher. Thanks, Sharon

      Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Sharon Silber <sharonsilber@...>
      To: jewishkeidan <jewishkeidan@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, Apr 9, 2014 09:51 PM
      Subject: [JewishKeidan] School in keidan [1 Attachment]

      [Attachment(s) from Sharon Silber included below] 

      My grandmother is the woman with lighter hair in the row behind the
      children. You should be able to enlarge to view to see details. Anyone else
      recognize someone?

      Sent from my iPhone

      -- 

      http://www.leongoldsmith.com/wordpress

      _____ 

      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6820 - Release Date: 04/09/14

      Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:40 am (PDT) . Posted by:

      "אבשי"

      HI LAIMA.

      PART OF MY FAM. IN KEIDAN.

      STANDING FROM LEFT: MY MOTHER SHEINA GOLTZIN, MY FATHER PESACH WEITZER.

      SITTING “ “: GR. “ RIVKA NACHA GOLTZIN (FEIN), GR. FATHER ARIE SHECHNA GOLTZIN. (THE GOLTZIN CAME PROBABLY FROM EDINBORO SCOTLAND AS THERE CALLED=MAC GOLTZIN?!)

      THE GOLTZIN HAD BAKERY AT HOME (BEIGEL MACHER)- 7 CHILDREN (4 EMIGRETE TO ISRAEL (IL) = SHEINA, YONA, SHMUEL & JAAKOV. - SARA & HER FAM. LOST IN THE HOLOCOST IN MINSK (BEL.), SHECHNA LOST IN SIBIRIA 1937 (“STALIN VICTIM”), GITLE MARRY DAVID PRUSSAK & THEY HAD 8 CHILDREN (4/4) – THEY + 2901 JEWISH LITUENIAN CITIZEN MURDER IN KEIDANI BY THE NAZIS & THEIR HELPER.

      THIS PHOTO SNAP BEFOR 1932. MY FATHER BOUGHT AGFA CAMERA 6X9 1928 IN THE KAGANS SHOP. HE HAD A STSTIVE, SO, HE COULD JOINT INTO THE PIC.

      AS USUALL IN THOSE TIME – THE GOLTZIN – HAD A COW, IN THE SAME BARAKE THEY LIVE, FOR MILK. IT WAS A BOY THAT TOOK EVERY MORNING THE COWS TO THE GRASS OUTSIDE THE SHTETLE (TOWN).

      MY PARENT WAS NOT RILIGJOSE ANY MORE. THEY BROUGT THE GOLDTZIN 1936 – TO ISRAEL (“PALESTINE”) – TO THE KIBUTZ… THERE I CAN VISIT THEM …

      I TRY TO ENCLOSE THEIR LIT. PASSPORT THEY USED BY THE WAY TO IL.

      LAIMA – YOU ARE DOING GOOD PROJECT. IF YOU HAVE INTERESTING FOR MORE MATTIRIAL – GIVE ME FIDBACK.

      AVSHI – BET ZERA

      מאת: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com [mailto:JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com] בשם Laimukas
      נשלח: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 6:39 AM
      אל: JewishKeidan@yahoogroups.com
      נושא: Re: [JewishKeidan] Rooted in Keidan

      Dear All,

      I understand your point and can compare your pain with the pain of my mother's family experience,

      as they were sent to the Siberia for ten years. Although, I understand it is not the same too.

      As being an educator from the bottom of my heart I feel I have to speak about the past with my students.

      That is why we have lessons, projects, discussions, meetings. That is why we learn together with our students to be tolerant.It is not a secret that it is not always easy. But we are trying to do our best.

      Thank you for helping me to do this.

      Continuing our project I have started the presentation about Education in Keidan. As you shared some photos of "Tarbut" school and Kedainiai gymnasium I have added them here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qVwUxwSOQs8ZSvtUzw23p9ozuagWV6P3efNeave2Y1g/edit?usp=sharing

      You are welcome to add more photos on the topic.You can edit yourself in this presentation.

      I am looking forward to hearing from you.

      All the best,

      Laima

      "Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
      Be honest and frank anyway."

      On Monday, 7 April 2014, 22:47, Howard Wolinsky <howard.wolinsky@...> wrote:

      Olga made some excellent points.

      Perhaps Laima can share this letter with her students and put it up on the website.

      Privately, I asked a related, more indirect question: How many Jews are in Keidan now? How diverse is the population now? (I think there is only one family that claims a Jewish ancestor.)

      My point to the teacher and students was: What happened to the Jews who once called Keidan home? They all didn't live happily ever after in the USA, Israel, South Africa.

      It's important that these students know the whole story.

      Howard Wolinsky

      On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Olga Zabludoff <ozabludoff@...> wrote:

      Dear Laima,

      I’m sorry that I do not have photos of the Tarbut school in Keidan.

      You mention below that you are interested in hearing my “story.” It is not a story I wish to tell you but some questions I want to ask, some concerns I would like to explain to you so that you can pass them on to your students.

      Many of the Keidan descendants to whom you are reaching out lost their parents, grandparents, and other family members in the Holocaust. The pain of our loss becomes even more intense because in Lithuania 95 % of the Jewish community was murdered with the willing collaboration of the neighbors of the Jews. Lithuania has the highest rate of Jewish genocide in all of Nazi-occupied Europe, and that was because of the massive participation of the local population. Yes, there were some Righteous Among the Nations, as Alexandre Kaplan points out in her message, and these noble individuals should be honoured and their memories cherished. But why is it that the Lithuanian government chooses to memorialize Nazi collaborators like Kazys Skirpa, Jonas Noreika and Juozas Ambrazevicius-Brazaitis with streets, schools and university lecture halls named for them? Why are there no streets named after Righteous Among the Nations? 

      As an educator I’m sure you know that history must be truthful and complete. For example, when our democratic development is taught in the United States, we include the

      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

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