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Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

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  • ThomH
    Good Guys, I don t think Jesus would be very patient with the don t ask, don t tell stance of today s church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 10, 2010

      Good Guys,

      I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually-debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.

      I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom-signsofastruggle.blogspot.com/

      While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.

      God Bless,

      Thom Hunter -- http://thom-signsofastruggle.blogspot.com/

    • John Cliford
      Thom, Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin. It s just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition. This is a
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 10, 2010
        Thom,

        Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin.  It's just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition.   This is a broken and fallen world.  It will be that way until after all the events of Revelation.

        Some people are just better at hiding their sin.  Remember all have sinned and come short of glory.

        You are right Jesus would rebuke our churches,,,,,,, not because there is sin in the church,,,,, but because we pretend that there is no sin.

        Our churches should be hospitals for hurting people, ,, places of forgiveness and redemption,,,,,,,,, not accusers and prosecutors

        John Cliford
        Redondo Bch, CA.




        From: ThomH <th2950@...>
        To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:49:58 PM
        Subject: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

         

        Good Guys,

        I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually- debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.

        I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/

        While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.

        God Bless,

        Thom Hunter -- http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/

      • pparm16424@aol.com
        Amen, amen, & amen to what you wrote, John! Spot on! Phil ... From: John Cliford To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 10, 2010
          Amen, amen, & amen to what you wrote, John! Spot on!

          Phil



          -----Original Message-----
          From: John Cliford <john_c_55@...>
          To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 9:44 pm
          Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

           
          Thom,

          Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin.  It's just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition.   This is a broken and fallen world.  It will be that way until after all the events of Revelation.

          Some people are just better at hiding their sin.  Remember all have sinned and come short of glory.

          You are right Jesus would rebuke our churches,,,, ,,, not because there is sin in the church,,,,, but because we pretend that there is no sin.

          Our churches should be hospitals for hurting people, ,, places of forgiveness and redemption,, ,,,,,,, not accusers and prosecutors

          John Cliford
          Redondo Bch, CA.




          From: ThomH <th2950@yahoo. com>
          To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:49:58 PM
          Subject: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

           
          Good Guys,
          I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually- debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.
          I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/
          While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.
          God Bless,
        • NewKnightRider
          It s the victorious living thing. I hope I m wrong but I think there s a belief that if you re struggling - especially with one of the MAJOR sins, like
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 10, 2010
            It's the 'victorious living" thing. I hope I'm wrong but I think there's a belief that if you're "struggling" - especially with one of the MAJOR sins, like homosexuality, or alcohol or drug abuse - then you're not "victorious" over sin, and therefore are out of favor with God.  A lot of divorced people feel like they're "2nd-class" Christians.  I've never been divorced; hope to never be able to list that as one of my accomplishments.  But the "husband of one wife" passage is used by many pastors and deacons to keep a lot of people on the sidelines.
            Anyone who's reading this who has been divorced, I love you much! 
             
            jeffnkr

            --- On Wed, 2/10/10, pparm16424@... <pparm16424@...> wrote:

            From: pparm16424@... <pparm16424@...>
            Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?
            To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 10:27 PM

             
            Amen, amen, & amen to what you wrote, John! Spot on!

            Phil



            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Cliford <john_c_55@yahoo. com>
            To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 9:44 pm
            Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

             
            Thom,

            Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin.  It's just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition.   This is a broken and fallen world.  It will be that way until after all the events of Revelation.

            Some people are just better at hiding their sin.  Remember all have sinned and come short of glory.

            You are right Jesus would rebuke our churches,,,, ,,, not because there is sin in the church,,,,, but because we pretend that there is no sin.

            Our churches should be hospitals for hurting people, ,, places of forgiveness and redemption,, ,,,,,,, not accusers and prosecutors

            John Cliford
            Redondo Bch, CA.




            From: ThomH <th2950@yahoo. com>
            To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:49:58 PM
            Subject: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

             
            Good Guys,
            I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually- debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.
            I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/
            While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.
            God Bless,
          • John Cliford
            jeffnkr, I m divorced,,,,,,, I feel like a survivor,,,,,she made 3 years of my life, hell on wheels. No way I feel guilty. On the other side I had a great
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 10, 2010
              jeffnkr,

              I'm divorced,,,,,,, I feel like a survivor,,,,,she made 3 years of my life, hell on wheels.  No way I feel guilty.

              On the other side I had a great wife,,,yes I always have male attractions,,,, but she was a true Christian women.  No way I would stray.  But she died,,,, I say; "Lord you knew that I would be here without her,,,, so you got me here,,, now what?"

              I like to explain "original sin" as everyone is born with a character flaw,,,,,, one you have all your life,,,, the sin you do over and over.  When our church tells us that we can fix this flaw by prayer and "If we just believe enough"  they are setting us for failure and life long struggle/torment.  

              I live in a sinful fallen world,,, I except that.  God sent his son to forgive and redeem me,,,, I except that.

              John





              From: NewKnightRider <nmic28732@...>
              To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 10:12:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

              It's the 'victorious living" thing. I hope I'm wrong but I think there's a belief that if you're "struggling" - especially with one of the MAJOR sins, like homosexuality, or alcohol or drug abuse - then you're not "victorious" over sin, and therefore are out of favor with God.  A lot of divorced people feel like they're "2nd-class" Christians.  I've never been divorced; hope to never be able to list that as one of my accomplishments.  But the "husband of one wife" passage is used by many pastors and deacons to keep a lot of people on the sidelines.
              Anyone who's reading this who has been divorced, I love

              you much! 
               
              jeffnkr

              --- On Wed, 2/10/10, pparm16424@aol. com <pparm16424@aol. com> wrote:

              From: pparm16424@aol. com <pparm16424@aol. com>
              Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?
              To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
              Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 10:27 PM

               
              Amen, amen, & amen to what you wrote, John! Spot on!

              Phil



              -----Original Message-----
              From: John Cliford <john_c_55@yahoo. com>
              To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 9:44 pm
              Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

               
              Thom,

              Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin.  It's just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition.   This is a broken and fallen world.  It will be that way until after all the events of Revelation.

              Some people are just better at hiding their sin.  Remember all have sinned and come short of glory.

              You are right Jesus would rebuke our churches,,,, ,,, not because there is sin in the church,,,,, but because we pretend that there is no sin.

              Our churches should be hospitals for hurting people, ,, places of forgiveness and redemption,, ,,,,,,, not accusers and prosecutors

              John Cliford
              Redondo Bch, CA.




              From: ThomH <th2950@yahoo. com>
              To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:49:58 PM
              Subject: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

               
              Good Guys,
              I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually- debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.
              I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/
              While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.
              God Bless,
            • Thom Hunter
              Phil,   Thanks for your agreement with John.  Where two or more . . . .   God Bless,   Thom
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 11, 2010
                Phil,
                 
                Thanks for your agreement with John.  Where two or more . . . .
                 
                God Bless,
                 
                Thom
                http://thom-signsofastruggle.blogspot.com/2010/02/sex-and-church-dont-ask-dont-tell.html

                --- On Wed, 2/10/10, pparm16424@... <pparm16424@...> wrote:

                From: pparm16424@... <pparm16424@...>
                Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?
                To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 9:27 PM

                 
                Amen, amen, & amen to what you wrote, John! Spot on!

                Phil



                -----Original Message-----
                From: John Cliford <john_c_55@yahoo. com>
                To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 9:44 pm
                Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

                 
                Thom,

                Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin.  It's just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition.   This is a broken and fallen world.  It will be that way until after all the events of Revelation.

                Some people are just better at hiding their sin.  Remember all have sinned and come short of glory.

                You are right Jesus would rebuke our churches,,,, ,,, not because there is sin in the church,,,,, but because we pretend that there is no sin.

                Our churches should be hospitals for hurting people, ,, places of forgiveness and redemption,, ,,,,,,, not accusers and prosecutors

                John Cliford
                Redondo Bch, CA.




                From: ThomH <th2950@yahoo. com>
                To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:49:58 PM
                Subject: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

                 
                Good Guys,
                I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually- debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.
                I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/
                While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.
                God Bless,

              • Thom Hunter
                John,   I agree wholheartedly that Jesus would not tolerate our pretense.  He addressed sin directly and provided forgiveness and grace, not excuse.  
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 11, 2010
                  John,
                   
                  I agree wholheartedly that Jesus would not tolerate our pretense.  He addressed sin directly and provided forgiveness and grace, not excuse.
                   
                  Thanks,
                   
                  Thom

                  From: John Cliford <john_c_55@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?
                  To: Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 8:44 PM

                   
                  Thom,

                  Of course the church is full of hurting people with all the hidden sin.  It's just like the rest of the world. That is the human condition.   This is a broken and fallen world.  It will be that way until after all the events of Revelation.

                  Some people are just better at hiding their sin.  Remember all have sinned and come short of glory.

                  You are right Jesus would rebuke our churches,,,, ,,, not because there is sin in the church,,,,, but because we pretend that there is no sin.

                  Our churches should be hospitals for hurting people, ,, places of forgiveness and redemption,, ,,,,,,, not accusers and prosecutors

                  John Cliford
                  Redondo Bch, CA.




                  From: ThomH <th2950@yahoo. com>
                  To: Jesus-is-our- victory@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:49:58 PM
                  Subject: [Jesus-is-our- victory] Sex and the Church: Don't Ask; Don't Tell?

                   
                  Good Guys,
                  I don't think Jesus would be very patient with the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of today's church regarding the sexual brokenness of its members.  If He were here tossing tables, He would discover there is a lot of hidden brokenness under the tablecloths.  Secret lusts, pastors perusing pornography, teenagers projecting purity and crumbling inside with guilt, husbands and wives filling their emptiness outside the boundaries of marriage, upstanding members and leaders combating spiritually- debilitating sexual addictions and unwanted desires.
                  I hope the rest of this week's blog post will be encouraging to you and perhaps raise some questions.  Please visit if you get the time and leave a comment on http://thom- signsofastruggle .blogspot. com/
                  While you're there, please participate in the poll on the right side of tha page regarding gay celibacy.
                  God Bless,

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