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Re: [Jesus-is-our-victory] Sexual Struggles

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  • Jimmy Jones
    Hey Will, Your story sounds EXACTLY like mine. Married 13 yrs 4 kids wonderful wife madly in love with her, 36 yrs old, and then i struggle with this mess .
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 1, 2005
      Hey Will,
       
      Your story sounds EXACTLY like mine.  Married 13 yrs 4 kids wonderful wife madly in love with her, 36 yrs old, and then i struggle with this "mess".  The JO doesn't bother me so much as long as the I-net isn't involved.  I can JO "just because", without having to picture or fantasize about something or somebody.  But when i do it because of reading erotic stories or looking at erotic pictures, then i feel really bad.  My wife knows of my struggles as well, but it is not something that i discuss with her very much because I don't want her to think that i do this instead of being with her.  At one time it effected our sex life, because i would JO so much that i wouldn't have the drive to have sex when the time was right.  Now i take Welbutrin and that is no longer a problem.  I "feel" what brother buddy is saying here, but at the same time we do have to understand that God destroyed an entire city because of homosexuality.  Now that is not to say that we are condemned to hell because of this, the fact is I don't know, only God knows.  All we can to is try to stay away from it, pray about it (which works best for me), and find support groups like this one.  If we are washed in the blood of Christ then we are truly cleansed, but if we don't repent, then I am not sure what may happen.  God knows we are going to screw up.  He has been given the ultimate sacrifice to take care of these screw ups.  All we have to do is try, really hard i might add, to live according to the word of God.  Will if you are a believer and a follower you can do this with His help.  I will certainly pray for you and hope that all here will pray for me.
       
      I bombed just yesterday myself.  I had gone for about a week and a half without eroticism, or chating via email with some one.  Then last night it came on me like a fever.  Couldn't stand it had to do it, so i did.  Makes me feel really bad when i fail, but i just pray for God to forgive me and pray that He will streer me away from it.  Good luck dude.
       
      MN

      brother_buddy01 <brother_buddy01@...> wrote:
      a recent post from brothersinchrist@yahoogroups

      Hi Will, thanks for joining.  Hey it's difficult as far as the
      struggle stuff goes.  Have you ever questioned your sexuality in a
      way that perhaps you may be bisexual.  It's funny how most guys
      won't admit that but the majority of males do have bisexual desires
      though a good portion don't act on them for reasons perhaps they
      desire women more than males so it keeps them in a "safe" spot and
      free from public humiliation if ever caught.  Then there are the
      guys who sneak around and hide and enjoy sexual adventures with
      other men but would never admit it to anyone for fear of
      persecution. Immature male peer pressure. < Most of the bisexual men
      who are struggling fall into this category.  Sad to say that as
      hypocritical as it sounds, it is this group of men that comes down
      extra hard on the openly gay man.  Then there is this new breed of
      male that is into this denial attitude.  The modern word for it
      is "One the down-low".  This means men who call themselves straight
      but enjoy having sex with other guys just for sex but are still
      straight.  Sounds like bisexuality to me mingled with terrible
      ignorance.  If you are bisexual, that is ok.  I am a 42 year old gay
      man and have never been with a woman.  Have I ever desired a woman?,
      well I thought about maybe perhaps what it would be like but the
      drive for a woman is not that strong so it is easier for me avoid.
      Women are beautiful to me love flowers or sunsets.  There is no
      sexual draw there, but in certain males I see xexual beauty and that
      is different. It is my attraction to other males that is my hook
      line and sinker.  I started this group and am no better than anyone
      else here.  Why just this past weekend, I jacked several times and
      on the internet in private chat rooms with other men, some married,
      one was a very masculine looking fireman who enjoys cyber like I
      do.  I admit this to let you guys know that I am in the pot along
      side of you and I know the stronghold this stuff has in my life even
      now as a serious believer in Christ. Even though I have decided to
      make Christ my Lord now, the struggle has not gotten easire but
      somedtimes it feels like the heat is being turned up even!  Remember
      what John the Baptist said:  "I baptize you with water, but He who
      is coming will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."  Or
      what Paul wrote to the early believers who loved the Lord: "Why are
      you so perplexed by the firey trials that have befallen you. Don't
      you know that your enemy the devil roams about like a roaring lion
      seeking whom he may devour?"   It is by these and other trials that
      we are strengthened and learn to truely lean on God and then we see
      the growth and maturity afterward and produce fruit either of wisdom
      or strength or faith and trust.  Making us even stronger in God for
      the next trials ahead.  This power truely is of God and not
      ourselves, thank God.  Cause God knows how proud and puffed up man
      can get thinking that he is so spiritual and he himself is doing
      it.  Such a person is preparing his own great fall.  But even after
      a great fall there is time and a chance for renewal.  There is
      always hope.

      Please don't be so worried about what you call your"homo desires". 
      Honestly I do believe that that is part of your makeup.  I know it
      is part of mine.  I can't change that.  The only thing I can do is
      lean in on God and Christ.  I really don't ask God to change me
      sexually anymore.  But rather I ask God to help make me sexually
      pure in body and heart.  My sexuality hasn't changed, but what I do
      with my sexuality is the whole key. Making better choices regarding
      my sex drive. I am tired of hating myself because our culture
      dictates what a "real man" is.  In my opinion, a real man cares for
      his fellow man and tries to understand.  Walking a mile in his shoes
      so to speak and not the Neanderthal like aggressiveness we see in
      this fast paced competitive world that we are in.    The journey
      with Christ should not be by your own efforts but rather God has to
      show you stuff.  Continue to ask Him in prayer.  Be patient.  Even
      if you jack off 10 times a day, just go to Him for forgiveness every
      time and dwell on his mercy. You are no suprise to God and neither
      am I! ;-)  I can't say this enough and it has been working ever so
      slowly in my own life the phrase> "He who has been forgiven much,
      loves much.  Please feel free to share any of your struggles here. 
      God will bless you just try and spend some time with Him in quiet.
      Welcome to the group!
      Peace,
      John

      signshow2000 <signshow2000@...> wrote:
      Fellas,

      I am married man (14 yrs) who struggles with thinking about, looking
      at
      and lusting after other guys and j/o about them.  I am 39 yrs old,
      got
      4 kids and want to be free from my homo desires and j/o too!!  I
      love
      my wife, my kids and being married, but I have a monster in my
      life. 
      She knows about my battle and has known since we dated.  I also
      struggle with the internet, yuck.  I read the erotic stuff, not so
      much
      the porn...which I think is worse cuz then I imagine way too much!

      Will




      Yahoo! Mail
      Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

    • liveblueforever
      John, I m new here but have been reading several posts and you make a good point about male bisexuality: most of us are but will never admit it. In fact, I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 2, 2005
        John,

        I'm new here but have been reading several posts and you make a good
        point about male bisexuality: most of us are but will never admit
        it. In fact, I would argue that most men are sexually attracted to
        other men and definitely want a same sex sex experience but reject
        the "gay lifestyle/being gay" label that now goes with same sex sex.
        Take masturbation for example. Now many of us do it because we
        discover it by accident and just do it but secretly we know that our
        friends and other guys are jakcing too and that is a huge moment of
        eroticism for us. Also, we know that all of us are fascinated by our
        cum and shooting it but most men deny buddy jacking or cirlce jerking
        for fear of ridicule and persecution.

        The real issue as to why so many men deny their same sex urges is
        that guys having sex with each other is great sex. Let's face it, it
        is and that is why this issue is complicated at times because no one
        wants to admit that sinning can be so good. It doesn't matter
        whether you are sucking, stroking, penetrating, or all of it when
        guys get it on with guys and it is done right we all know that the
        experience and orgasms are out of this world and why the stronghold
        of same sex sex can set in and convince us we are "gay." Getting
        past the plain hot good sex of guys doing each other helps to free
        one from the stranglehold that sucking a buddy and circle jerking can
        drive you to do.

        Sexual struggles are just a symptom of how the enemy lays a
        stronghold on you to blind you to God's love and power. Yet, when
        you recognize that God can break that stronghold and you surrender it
        to Him the liberty of being in Christ is realized. Further, those
        temptations become less enticing and say seeing a hung cock does not
        turn you on like it once did and if it does you are not overwhelmed
        with crazed, lust out thoughts to suck it.


        Joey


        --- In Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com, "brother_buddy01"
        <brother_buddy01@y...> wrote:
        > a recent post from brothersinchrist@yahoogroups
        >
        > Hi Will, thanks for joining. Hey it's difficult as far as the
        > struggle stuff goes. Have you ever questioned your sexuality in a
        > way that perhaps you may be bisexual. It's funny how most guys
        > won't admit that but the majority of males do have bisexual desires
        > though a good portion don't act on them for reasons perhaps they
        > desire women more than males so it keeps them in a "safe" spot and
        > free from public humiliation if ever caught. Then there are the
        > guys who sneak around and hide and enjoy sexual adventures with
        > other men but would never admit it to anyone for fear of
        > persecution. Immature male peer pressure. < Most of the bisexual
        men
        > who are struggling fall into this category. Sad to say that as
        > hypocritical as it sounds, it is this group of men that comes down
        > extra hard on the openly gay man. Then there is this new breed of
        > male that is into this denial attitude. The modern word for it
        > is "One the down-low". This means men who call themselves straight
        > but enjoy having sex with other guys just for sex but are still
        > straight. Sounds like bisexuality to me mingled with terrible
        > ignorance. If you are bisexual, that is ok. I am a 42 year old
        gay
        > man and have never been with a woman. Have I ever desired a
        woman?,
        > well I thought about maybe perhaps what it would be like but the
        > drive for a woman is not that strong so it is easier for me avoid.
        > Women are beautiful to me love flowers or sunsets. There is no
        > sexual draw there, but in certain males I see xexual beauty and
        that
        > is different. It is my attraction to other males that is my hook
        > line and sinker. I started this group and am no better than anyone
        > else here. Why just this past weekend, I jacked several times and
        > on the internet in private chat rooms with other men, some married,
        > one was a very masculine looking fireman who enjoys cyber like I
        > do. I admit this to let you guys know that I am in the pot along
        > side of you and I know the stronghold this stuff has in my life
        even
        > now as a serious believer in Christ. Even though I have decided to
        > make Christ my Lord now, the struggle has not gotten easire but
        > somedtimes it feels like the heat is being turned up even!
        Remember
        > what John the Baptist said: "I baptize you with water, but He who
        > is coming will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." Or
        > what Paul wrote to the early believers who loved the Lord: "Why are
        > you so perplexed by the firey trials that have befallen you. Don't
        > you know that your enemy the devil roams about like a roaring lion
        > seeking whom he may devour?" It is by these and other trials that
        > we are strengthened and learn to truely lean on God and then we see
        > the growth and maturity afterward and produce fruit either of
        wisdom
        > or strength or faith and trust. Making us even stronger in God for
        > the next trials ahead. This power truely is of God and not
        > ourselves, thank God. Cause God knows how proud and puffed up man
        > can get thinking that he is so spiritual and he himself is doing
        > it. Such a person is preparing his own great fall. But even after
        > a great fall there is time and a chance for renewal. There is
        > always hope.
        >
        > Please don't be so worried about what you call your"homo desires".
        > Honestly I do believe that that is part of your makeup. I know it
        > is part of mine. I can't change that. The only thing I can do is
        > lean in on God and Christ. I really don't ask God to change me
        > sexually anymore. But rather I ask God to help make me sexually
        > pure in body and heart. My sexuality hasn't changed, but what I do
        > with my sexuality is the whole key. Making better choices regarding
        > my sex drive. I am tired of hating myself because our culture
        > dictates what a "real man" is. In my opinion, a real man cares for
        > his fellow man and tries to understand. Walking a mile in his
        shoes
        > so to speak and not the Neanderthal like aggressiveness we see in
        > this fast paced competitive world that we are in. The journey
        > with Christ should not be by your own efforts but rather God has to
        > show you stuff. Continue to ask Him in prayer. Be patient. Even
        > if you jack off 10 times a day, just go to Him for forgiveness
        every
        > time and dwell on his mercy. You are no suprise to God and neither
        > am I! ;-) I can't say this enough and it has been working ever so
        > slowly in my own life the phrase> "He who has been forgiven much,
        > loves much. Please feel free to share any of your struggles here.
        > God will bless you just try and spend some time with Him in quiet.
        > Welcome to the group!
        > Peace,
        > John
        >
        > signshow2000 <signshow2000@y...> wrote:
        > Fellas,
        >
        > I am married man (14 yrs) who struggles with thinking about,
        looking
        > at
        > and lusting after other guys and j/o about them. I am 39 yrs old,
        > got
        > 4 kids and want to be free from my homo desires and j/o too!! I
        > love
        > my wife, my kids and being married, but I have a monster in my
        > life.
        > She knows about my battle and has known since we dated. I also
        > struggle with the internet, yuck. I read the erotic stuff, not so
        > much
        > the porn...which I think is worse cuz then I imagine way too much!
        >
        > Will
      • Jimmy Jones
        Dude that was an uplifting message....in more ways than one. Maybe we could use a little less detailed info. All of that sex talk gets me cranked up. I
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 2, 2005
          Dude that was an "uplifting" message....in more ways than one.  Maybe we could use a little less detailed info.  All of that "sex" talk gets me cranked up.  I sure don't need help in that department.  :-)

          liveblueforever <liveblueforever@...> wrote:
          John,

          I'm new here but have been reading several posts and you make a good
          point about male bisexuality: most of us are but will never admit
          it.  In fact, I would argue that most men are sexually attracted to
          other men and definitely want a same sex sex experience but reject
          the "gay lifestyle/being gay" label that now goes with same sex sex. 
          Take masturbation for example.  Now many of us do it because we
          discover it by accident and just do it but secretly we know that our
          friends and other guys are jakcing too and that is a huge moment of
          eroticism for us.  Also, we know that all of us are fascinated by our
          cum and shooting it but most men deny buddy jacking or cirlce jerking
          for fear of ridicule and persecution. 

          The real issue as to why so many men deny their same sex urges is
          that guys having sex with each other is great sex.  Let's face it, it
          is and that is why this issue is complicated at times because no one
          wants to admit that sinning can be so good.  It doesn't matter
          whether you are sucking, stroking, penetrating, or all of it when
          guys get it on with guys and it is done right we all know that the
          experience and orgasms are out of this world and why the stronghold
          of same sex sex can set in and convince us we are "gay."  Getting
          past the plain hot good sex of guys doing each other helps to free
          one from the stranglehold that sucking a buddy and circle jerking can
          drive you to do.

          Sexual struggles are just a symptom of how the enemy lays a
          stronghold on you to blind you to God's love and power.  Yet, when
          you recognize that God can break that stronghold and you surrender it
          to Him the liberty of being in Christ is realized.  Further, those
          temptations become less enticing and say seeing a hung cock does not
          turn you on like it once did and if it does you are not overwhelmed
          with crazed, lust out thoughts to suck it.


          Joey


          --- In Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com, "brother_buddy01"
          <brother_buddy01@y...> wrote:
          > a recent post from brothersinchrist@yahoogroups
          >
          > Hi Will, thanks for joining.  Hey it's difficult as far as the
          > struggle stuff goes.  Have you ever questioned your sexuality in a
          > way that perhaps you may be bisexual.  It's funny how most guys
          > won't admit that but the majority of males do have bisexual desires
          > though a good portion don't act on them for reasons perhaps they
          > desire women more than males so it keeps them in a "safe" spot and
          > free from public humiliation if ever caught.  Then there are the
          > guys who sneak around and hide and enjoy sexual adventures with
          > other men but would never admit it to anyone for fear of
          > persecution. Immature male peer pressure. < Most of the bisexual
          men
          > who are struggling fall into this category.  Sad to say that as
          > hypocritical as it sounds, it is this group of men that comes down
          > extra hard on the openly gay man.  Then there is this new breed of
          > male that is into this denial attitude.  The modern word for it
          > is "One the down-low".  This means men who call themselves straight
          > but enjoy having sex with other guys just for sex but are still
          > straight.  Sounds like bisexuality to me mingled with terrible
          > ignorance.  If you are bisexual, that is ok.  I am a 42 year old
          gay
          > man and have never been with a woman.  Have I ever desired a
          woman?,
          > well I thought about maybe perhaps what it would be like but the
          > drive for a woman is not that strong so it is easier for me avoid.
          > Women are beautiful to me love flowers or sunsets.  There is no
          > sexual draw there, but in certain males I see xexual beauty and
          that
          > is different. It is my attraction to other males that is my hook
          > line and sinker.  I started this group and am no better than anyone
          > else here.  Why just this past weekend, I jacked several times and
          > on the internet in private chat rooms with other men, some married,
          > one was a very masculine looking fireman who enjoys cyber like I
          > do.  I admit this to let you guys know that I am in the pot along
          > side of you and I know the stronghold this stuff has in my life
          even
          > now as a serious believer in Christ. Even though I have decided to
          > make Christ my Lord now, the struggle has not gotten easire but
          > somedtimes it feels like the heat is being turned up even! 
          Remember
          > what John the Baptist said:  "I baptize you with water, but He who
          > is coming will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."  Or
          > what Paul wrote to the early believers who loved the Lord: "Why are
          > you so perplexed by the firey trials that have befallen you. Don't
          > you know that your enemy the devil roams about like a roaring lion
          > seeking whom he may devour?"   It is by these and other trials that
          > we are strengthened and learn to truely lean on God and then we see
          > the growth and maturity afterward and produce fruit either of
          wisdom
          > or strength or faith and trust.  Making us even stronger in God for
          > the next trials ahead.  This power truely is of God and not
          > ourselves, thank God.  Cause God knows how proud and puffed up man
          > can get thinking that he is so spiritual and he himself is doing
          > it.  Such a person is preparing his own great fall.  But even after
          > a great fall there is time and a chance for renewal.  There is
          > always hope.

          > Please don't be so worried about what you call your"homo desires". 
          > Honestly I do believe that that is part of your makeup.  I know it
          > is part of mine.  I can't change that.  The only thing I can do is
          > lean in on God and Christ.  I really don't ask God to change me
          > sexually anymore.  But rather I ask God to help make me sexually
          > pure in body and heart.  My sexuality hasn't changed, but what I do
          > with my sexuality is the whole key. Making better choices regarding
          > my sex drive. I am tired of hating myself because our culture
          > dictates what a "real man" is.  In my opinion, a real man cares for
          > his fellow man and tries to understand.  Walking a mile in his
          shoes
          > so to speak and not the Neanderthal like aggressiveness we see in
          > this fast paced competitive world that we are in.    The journey
          > with Christ should not be by your own efforts but rather God has to
          > show you stuff.  Continue to ask Him in prayer.  Be patient.  Even
          > if you jack off 10 times a day, just go to Him for forgiveness
          every
          > time and dwell on his mercy. You are no suprise to God and neither
          > am I! ;-)  I can't say this enough and it has been working ever so
          > slowly in my own life the phrase> "He who has been forgiven much,
          > loves much.  Please feel free to share any of your struggles here. 
          > God will bless you just try and spend some time with Him in quiet.
          > Welcome to the group!
          > Peace,
          > John
          >
          > signshow2000 <signshow2000@y...> wrote:
          > Fellas,
          >
          > I am married man (14 yrs) who struggles with thinking about,
          looking
          > at
          > and lusting after other guys and j/o about them.  I am 39 yrs old,
          > got
          > 4 kids and want to be free from my homo desires and j/o too!!  I
          > love
          > my wife, my kids and being married, but I have a monster in my
          > life. 
          > She knows about my battle and has known since we dated.  I also
          > struggle with the internet, yuck.  I read the erotic stuff, not so
          > much
          > the porn...which I think is worse cuz then I imagine way too much!
          >
          > Will


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com

        • liveblueforever
          Jimmy, Thanks. I know the detailed info can create some problems for some but I have found that blunt talk gets the job done better than dancing around an
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 2, 2005
            Jimmy,

            Thanks. I know the detailed info can create some problems for some
            but I have found that blunt talk gets the job done better than
            dancing around an issue. The key is to surrender yourself to Christ
            in such a way that such talk is only talk. This is where the
            stranglehold of sex sin gets its grip and holds on because we don't
            face the seriousness of it and how only the Almighty can fix it.
            Some people will never struggle with sex sin but they will have other
            vices that tempt them that you may not bat an eye about. What is at
            issue is all sin is sin to God and what matters is our relationship
            with Him through Christ (see John 14:6) and how we are forgiven if we
            confess that salvation (see I John 1:8-10). Once that occurs then
            the Holy Spirit can begin to work in your life but remember even the
            Apostle Paul had to deal with an ongoing issue (see II Corinthians
            12:7) so our daily walk with Christ should be our focus (see Matthew
            10:38-39). Male sexuality is a complicated issue and now more than
            ever because of the gender identity crisis brought about by several
            factors in society over the last century. Namely of which is
            Feminism and how it started out good but has warped masculine
            development so much that the devil has used it to gain a
            foothold/stronhold on the sexual identity/lusts of many men.
            Further, when you suck/stroke/screw a buddy-other guy what does
            society (satan) tell you? Hey, you're gay but all you did was have
            sex either out of need or curiousity and that's it. Then look at the
            men who have grown up abused (sexaully) by their Mother as well as
            their Father. I suspect that if a true and accurate survey was done
            we would all be floored by the number of Mom-Sons who have had some
            kind of sexual experience together. Then what of the guys forced to
            suck and take penetration from a Dad/Uncle/other male? They don't
            need ridicule, they need healing and support for so many reason that
            we can't list them here. Yet, all of it is just a weapon of the
            devil to rob those he can of living life they way God meant for it to
            be lived. Realizing that and trusting God completely will allow you
            to write about jacking and sucking without having to beat it
            afterwards.


            Joey



            --- In Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Jones
            <oldbraceface2000@y...> wrote:
            > Dude that was an "uplifting" message....in more ways than one.
            Maybe we could use a little less detailed info. All of that "sex"
            talk gets me cranked up. I sure don't need help in that
            department. :-)
            >
            > liveblueforever <liveblueforever@y...> wrote:John,
            >
            > I'm new here but have been reading several posts and you make a
            good
            > point about male bisexuality: most of us are but will never admit
            > it. In fact, I would argue that most men are sexually attracted to
            > other men and definitely want a same sex sex experience but reject
            > the "gay lifestyle/being gay" label that now goes with same sex
            sex.
            > Take masturbation for example. Now many of us do it because we
            > discover it by accident and just do it but secretly we know that
            our
            > friends and other guys are jakcing too and that is a huge moment of
            > eroticism for us. Also, we know that all of us are fascinated by
            our
            > cum and shooting it but most men deny buddy jacking or cirlce
            jerking
            > for fear of ridicule and persecution.
            >
            > The real issue as to why so many men deny their same sex urges is
            > that guys having sex with each other is great sex. Let's face it,
            it
            > is and that is why this issue is complicated at times because no
            one
            > wants to admit that sinning can be so good. It doesn't matter
            > whether you are sucking, stroking, penetrating, or all of it when
            > guys get it on with guys and it is done right we all know that the
            > experience and orgasms are out of this world and why the stronghold
            > of same sex sex can set in and convince us we are "gay." Getting
            > past the plain hot good sex of guys doing each other helps to free
            > one from the stranglehold that sucking a buddy and circle jerking
            can
            > drive you to do.
            >
            > Sexual struggles are just a symptom of how the enemy lays a
            > stronghold on you to blind you to God's love and power. Yet, when
            > you recognize that God can break that stronghold and you surrender
            it
            > to Him the liberty of being in Christ is realized. Further, those
            > temptations become less enticing and say seeing a hung cock does
            not
            > turn you on like it once did and if it does you are not overwhelmed
            > with crazed, lust out thoughts to suck it.
            >
            >
            > Joey
            >
            >
            > --- In Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com, "brother_buddy01"
            > <brother_buddy01@y...> wrote:
            > > a recent post from brothersinchrist@yahoogroups
            > >
            > > Hi Will, thanks for joining. Hey it's difficult as far as the
            > > struggle stuff goes. Have you ever questioned your sexuality in
            a
            > > way that perhaps you may be bisexual. It's funny how most guys
            > > won't admit that but the majority of males do have bisexual
            desires
            > > though a good portion don't act on them for reasons perhaps they
            > > desire women more than males so it keeps them in a "safe" spot
            and
            > > free from public humiliation if ever caught. Then there are the
            > > guys who sneak around and hide and enjoy sexual adventures with
            > > other men but would never admit it to anyone for fear of
            > > persecution. Immature male peer pressure. < Most of the bisexual
            > men
            > > who are struggling fall into this category. Sad to say that as
            > > hypocritical as it sounds, it is this group of men that comes
            down
            > > extra hard on the openly gay man. Then there is this new breed
            of
            > > male that is into this denial attitude. The modern word for it
            > > is "One the down-low". This means men who call themselves
            straight
            > > but enjoy having sex with other guys just for sex but are still
            > > straight. Sounds like bisexuality to me mingled with terrible
            > > ignorance. If you are bisexual, that is ok. I am a 42 year old
            > gay
            > > man and have never been with a woman. Have I ever desired a
            > woman?,
            > > well I thought about maybe perhaps what it would be like but the
            > > drive for a woman is not that strong so it is easier for me
            avoid.
            > > Women are beautiful to me love flowers or sunsets. There is no
            > > sexual draw there, but in certain males I see xexual beauty and
            > that
            > > is different. It is my attraction to other males that is my hook
            > > line and sinker. I started this group and am no better than
            anyone
            > > else here. Why just this past weekend, I jacked several times
            and
            > > on the internet in private chat rooms with other men, some
            married,
            > > one was a very masculine looking fireman who enjoys cyber like I
            > > do. I admit this to let you guys know that I am in the pot along
            > > side of you and I know the stronghold this stuff has in my life
            > even
            > > now as a serious believer in Christ. Even though I have decided
            to
            > > make Christ my Lord now, the struggle has not gotten easire but
            > > somedtimes it feels like the heat is being turned up even!
            > Remember
            > > what John the Baptist said: "I baptize you with water, but He
            who
            > > is coming will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."
            Or
            > > what Paul wrote to the early believers who loved the Lord: "Why
            are
            > > you so perplexed by the firey trials that have befallen you.
            Don't
            > > you know that your enemy the devil roams about like a roaring
            lion
            > > seeking whom he may devour?" It is by these and other trials
            that
            > > we are strengthened and learn to truely lean on God and then we
            see
            > > the growth and maturity afterward and produce fruit either of
            > wisdom
            > > or strength or faith and trust. Making us even stronger in God
            for
            > > the next trials ahead. This power truely is of God and not
            > > ourselves, thank God. Cause God knows how proud and puffed up
            man
            > > can get thinking that he is so spiritual and he himself is doing
            > > it. Such a person is preparing his own great fall. But even
            after
            > > a great fall there is time and a chance for renewal. There is
            > > always hope.
            > >
            > > Please don't be so worried about what you call your"homo
            desires".
            > > Honestly I do believe that that is part of your makeup. I know
            it
            > > is part of mine. I can't change that. The only thing I can do
            is
            > > lean in on God and Christ. I really don't ask God to change me
            > > sexually anymore. But rather I ask God to help make me sexually
            > > pure in body and heart. My sexuality hasn't changed, but what I
            do
            > > with my sexuality is the whole key. Making better choices
            regarding
            > > my sex drive. I am tired of hating myself because our culture
            > > dictates what a "real man" is. In my opinion, a real man cares
            for
            > > his fellow man and tries to understand. Walking a mile in his
            > shoes
            > > so to speak and not the Neanderthal like aggressiveness we see in
            > > this fast paced competitive world that we are in. The journey
            > > with Christ should not be by your own efforts but rather God has
            to
            > > show you stuff. Continue to ask Him in prayer. Be patient.
            Even
            > > if you jack off 10 times a day, just go to Him for forgiveness
            > every
            > > time and dwell on his mercy. You are no suprise to God and
            neither
            > > am I! ;-) I can't say this enough and it has been working ever
            so
            > > slowly in my own life the phrase> "He who has been forgiven much,
            > > loves much. Please feel free to share any of your struggles
            here.
            > > God will bless you just try and spend some time with Him in quiet.
            > > Welcome to the group!
            > > Peace,
            > > John
            > >
            > > signshow2000 <signshow2000@y...> wrote:
            > > Fellas,
            > >
            > > I am married man (14 yrs) who struggles with thinking about,
            > looking
            > > at
            > > and lusting after other guys and j/o about them. I am 39 yrs
            old,
            > > got
            > > 4 kids and want to be free from my homo desires and j/o too!! I
            > > love
            > > my wife, my kids and being married, but I have a monster in my
            > > life.
            > > She knows about my battle and has known since we dated. I also
            > > struggle with the internet, yuck. I read the erotic stuff, not
            so
            > > much
            > > the porn...which I think is worse cuz then I imagine way too much!
            > >
            > > Will
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jesus-is-our-victory/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > Jesus-is-our-victory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
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            >
            >
            >
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          • Jimmy Jones
            I agree with you mostly. The only problem is some of us here aren t as strong as you seem to be. Also, having sex with another man, whether it is need or
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 2, 2005
              I agree with you mostly.  The only problem is some of us here aren't as strong as you seem to be.  Also, having sex with another man, whether it is need or curiousity, is still sex with another man.  Is that not wrong.  Sin is sin, and i believe that.  However, if you look at the bible, concubines were consoled by Jesus.  But then God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for such things as homosexuality.  So even though a sin is a sin, we won't know if they are all punished the same until we get there.

              liveblueforever <liveblueforever@...> wrote:
              Jimmy,

              Thanks.  I know the detailed info can create some problems for some
              but I have found that blunt talk gets the job done better than
              dancing around an issue.  The key is to surrender yourself to Christ
              in such a way that such talk is only talk.  This is where the
              stranglehold of sex sin gets its grip and holds on because we don't
              face the seriousness of it and how only the Almighty can fix it. 
              Some people will never struggle with sex sin but they will have other
              vices that tempt them that you may not bat an eye about.  What is at
              issue is all sin is sin to God and what matters is our relationship
              with Him through Christ (see John 14:6) and how we are forgiven if we
              confess that salvation (see I John 1:8-10).  Once that occurs then
              the Holy Spirit can begin to work in your life but remember even the
              Apostle Paul had to deal with an ongoing issue (see II Corinthians
              12:7) so our daily walk with Christ should be our focus (see Matthew
              10:38-39).  Male sexuality is a complicated issue and now more than
              ever because of the gender identity crisis brought about by several
              factors in society over the last century.  Namely of which is
              Feminism and how it started out good but has warped masculine
              development so much that the devil has used it to gain a
              foothold/stronhold on the sexual identity/lusts of many men. 
              Further, when you suck/stroke/screw a buddy-other guy what does
              society (satan) tell you?  Hey, you're gay but all you did was have
              sex either out of need or curiousity and that's it.  Then look at the
              men who have grown up abused (sexaully) by their Mother as well as
              their Father.  I suspect that if a true and accurate survey was done
              we would all be floored by the number of Mom-Sons who have had some
              kind of sexual experience together.  Then what of the guys forced to
              suck and take penetration from a Dad/Uncle/other male?  They don't
              need ridicule, they need healing and support for so many reason that
              we can't list them here.  Yet, all of it is just a weapon of the
              devil to rob those he can of living life they way God meant for it to
              be lived.  Realizing that and trusting God completely will allow you
              to write about jacking and sucking without having to beat it
              afterwards. 


              Joey

               
               
              --- In Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Jones
              <oldbraceface2000@y...> wrote:
              > Dude that was an "uplifting" message....in more ways than one. 
              Maybe we could use a little less detailed info.  All of that "sex"
              talk gets me cranked up.  I sure don't need help in that
              department.  :-)
              >
              > liveblueforever <liveblueforever@y...> wrote:John,
              >
              > I'm new here but have been reading several posts and you make a
              good
              > point about male bisexuality: most of us are but will never admit
              > it.  In fact, I would argue that most men are sexually attracted to
              > other men and definitely want a same sex sex experience but reject
              > the "gay lifestyle/being gay" label that now goes with same sex
              sex. 
              > Take masturbation for example.  Now many of us do it because we
              > discover it by accident and just do it but secretly we know that
              our
              > friends and other guys are jakcing too and that is a huge moment of
              > eroticism for us.  Also, we know that all of us are fascinated by
              our
              > cum and shooting it but most men deny buddy jacking or cirlce
              jerking
              > for fear of ridicule and persecution. 
              >
              > The real issue as to why so many men deny their same sex urges is
              > that guys having sex with each other is great sex.  Let's face it,
              it
              > is and that is why this issue is complicated at times because no
              one
              > wants to admit that sinning can be so good.  It doesn't matter
              > whether you are sucking, stroking, penetrating, or all of it when
              > guys get it on with guys and it is done right we all know that the
              > experience and orgasms are out of this world and why the stronghold
              > of same sex sex can set in and convince us we are "gay."  Getting
              > past the plain hot good sex of guys doing each other helps to free
              > one from the stranglehold that sucking a buddy and circle jerking
              can
              > drive you to do.
              >
              > Sexual struggles are just a symptom of how the enemy lays a
              > stronghold on you to blind you to God's love and power.  Yet, when
              > you recognize that God can break that stronghold and you surrender
              it
              > to Him the liberty of being in Christ is realized.  Further, those
              > temptations become less enticing and say seeing a hung cock does
              not
              > turn you on like it once did and if it does you are not overwhelmed
              > with crazed, lust out thoughts to suck it.
              >
              >
              > Joey
              >
              >
              > --- In Jesus-is-our-victory@yahoogroups.com, "brother_buddy01"
              > <brother_buddy01@y...> wrote:
              > > a recent post from brothersinchrist@yahoogroups
              > >
              > > Hi Will, thanks for joining.  Hey it's difficult as far as the
              > > struggle stuff goes.  Have you ever questioned your sexuality in
              a
              > > way that perhaps you may be bisexual.  It's funny how most guys
              > > won't admit that but the majority of males do have bisexual
              desires
              > > though a good portion don't act on them for reasons perhaps they
              > > desire women more than males so it keeps them in a "safe" spot
              and
              > > free from public humiliation if ever caught.  Then there are the
              > > guys who sneak around and hide and enjoy sexual adventures with
              > > other men but would never admit it to anyone for fear of
              > > persecution. Immature male peer pressure. < Most of the bisexual
              > men
              > > who are struggling fall into this category.  Sad to say that as
              > > hypocritical as it sounds, it is this group of men that comes
              down
              > > extra hard on the openly gay man.  Then there is this new breed
              of
              > > male that is into this denial attitude.  The modern word for it
              > > is "One the down-low".  This means men who call themselves
              straight
              > > but enjoy having sex with other guys just for sex but are still
              > > straight.  Sounds like bisexuality to me mingled with terrible
              > > ignorance.  If you are bisexual, that is ok.  I am a 42 year old
              > gay
              > > man and have never been with a woman.  Have I ever desired a
              > woman?,
              > > well I thought about maybe perhaps what it would be like but the
              > > drive for a woman is not that strong so it is easier for me
              avoid.
              > > Women are beautiful to me love flowers or sunsets.  There is no
              > > sexual draw there, but in certain males I see xexual beauty and
              > that
              > > is different. It is my attraction to other males that is my hook
              > > line and sinker.  I started this group and am no better than
              anyone
              > > else here.  Why just this past weekend, I jacked several times
              and
              > > on the internet in private chat rooms with other men, some
              married,
              > > one was a very masculine looking fireman who enjoys cyber like I
              > > do.  I admit this to let you guys know that I am in the pot along
              > > side of you and I know the stronghold this stuff has in my life
              > even
              > > now as a serious believer in Christ. Even though I have decided
              to
              > > make Christ my Lord now, the struggle has not gotten easire but
              > > somedtimes it feels like the heat is being turned up even! 
              > Remember
              > > what John the Baptist said:  "I baptize you with water, but He
              who
              > > is coming will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." 
              Or
              > > what Paul wrote to the early believers who loved the Lord: "Why
              are
              > > you so perplexed by the firey trials that have befallen you.
              Don't
              > > you know that your enemy the devil roams about like a roaring
              lion
              > > seeking whom he may devour?"   It is by these and other trials
              that
              > > we are strengthened and learn to truely lean on God and then we
              see
              > > the growth and maturity afterward and produce fruit either of
              > wisdom
              > > or strength or faith and trust.  Making us even stronger in God
              for
              > > the next trials ahead.  This power truely is of God and not
              > > ourselves, thank God.  Cause God knows how proud and puffed up
              man
              > > can get thinking that he is so spiritual and he himself is doing
              > > it.  Such a person is preparing his own great fall.  But even
              after
              > > a great fall there is time and a chance for renewal.  There is
              > > always hope.
              > > 
              > > Please don't be so worried about what you call your"homo
              desires". 
              > > Honestly I do believe that that is part of your makeup.  I know
              it
              > > is part of mine.  I can't change that.  The only thing I can do
              is
              > > lean in on God and Christ.  I really don't ask God to change me
              > > sexually anymore.  But rather I ask God to help make me sexually
              > > pure in body and heart.  My sexuality hasn't changed, but what I
              do
              > > with my sexuality is the whole key. Making better choices
              regarding
              > > my sex drive. I am tired of hating myself because our culture
              > > dictates what a "real man" is.  In my opinion, a real man cares
              for
              > > his fellow man and tries to understand.  Walking a mile in his
              > shoes
              > > so to speak and not the Neanderthal like aggressiveness we see in
              > > this fast paced competitive world that we are in.    The journey
              > > with Christ should not be by your own efforts but rather God has
              to
              > > show you stuff.  Continue to ask Him in prayer.  Be patient. 
              Even
              > > if you jack off 10 times a day, just go to Him for forgiveness
              > every
              > > time and dwell on his mercy. You are no suprise to God and
              neither
              > > am I! ;-)  I can't say this enough and it has been working ever
              so
              > > slowly in my own life the phrase> "He who has been forgiven much,
              > > loves much.  Please feel free to share any of your struggles
              here. 
              > > God will bless you just try and spend some time with Him in quiet.
              > > Welcome to the group!
              > > Peace,
              > > John
              > >
              > > signshow2000 <signshow2000@y...> wrote:
              > > Fellas,
              > >
              > > I am married man (14 yrs) who struggles with thinking about,
              > looking
              > > at
              > > and lusting after other guys and j/o about them.  I am 39 yrs
              old,
              > > got
              > > 4 kids and want to be free from my homo desires and j/o too!!  I
              > > love
              > > my wife, my kids and being married, but I have a monster in my
              > > life. 
              > > She knows about my battle and has known since we dated.  I also
              > > struggle with the internet, yuck.  I read the erotic stuff, not
              so
              > > much
              > > the porn...which I think is worse cuz then I imagine way too much!
              > >
              > > Will
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jesus-is-our-victory/
              >  
              >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Jesus-is-our-victory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >  
              >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
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