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Re: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

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  • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
    Dear all, Some new stuff people might be interested in. http://www.harappadna.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/harappa_admixture_K12_dend.png Using the
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 1, 2011
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      Dear all,

      Some new stuff people might be interested in.

      http://www.harappadna.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/harappa_admixture_K12_dend.png

      "Using the ancestral component percentages from the Admixture run at K=12 for Harappa Project participants, we can calculate the pairwise Euclidean distance between them. These distances can be used to create complete linkage (i.e. furthest neighbor) hierarchical clustering, which you see below."

      Currently the project is at 40+ participants.



      On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:
      Dear all,

      An updated chart for the first 30 participants now.

      sorted by geographical locale West to east then south.

      http://harappaancestry.blogspot.com/2011/02/admixture-k9-hrp0001-to-hrp0030.html

      Regards,
      Simran


      On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Sarvesh Tiwari <sarveshtiwari@...> wrote:
       

      It is the region between Sindhu and Sarasvati, which is most prominantly reflected, and naturally includes dominatingly, but is not limited to, Panjab & Haryana.  Post gradual decline of sarasvatI river, this population slowly migrated eastwards towards ga~NgA valley (already productive and fertile - See exploration papers of Dr. Rakesh Tewari of Lucknow Univ.) and southwards (also already productive and fertile - e.g. narmadA valley).
       
      But you did not answer my question regarding quoting some support source from R^igveda for your assertion that <<<you follow the theory that aryans came from india and went to europe? just read the vedas from a geographical point of view. there is from the rg veda down a movement from the west to the east, not the other way round.>>>
       
      As for my personal view, I am quite ambivalent at present about the direction of migration, in- or out-of India. We can hardly conclude anything basis even the DNA pool data.  Any hypothesis can almost equally work in either ways.  Lately though, I have been inclined to consider Shrikant Talageri's thesis as the closest to truth. He holds an Out-of-India theory.  I also hold that "Arya", at least in R^igvedic time, was not an ethnos identifier.  "bhArata-s", "puru-s", "kuru-pA~nchAla-s" etc. were, but not "Arya-s".
       
      Regards
      Sarvesh

      Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 05:34:35 +0100

      Subject: RE: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

       
      namaskar
       
      in the rg veda there is no mention of UP and Bihar, in the beginning Punjab (not only in India but Pakistan, too) and Haryana figure prominently. Afghanistan (shortughai) was even prominent during harappa.
       then Agni moves to the Ganges doab by clearing the forests with fire. that is usually interpreted as eastward expansion.
       
      could you tell me in short what you think about aryans? where are they from and so on.
       
      regards
       
      alex
       

      To: jathistory@yahoogroups.com
      From: sarveshtiwari@...
      Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 04:15:12 +0000
      Subject: RE: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

       
      Namaste
       
      <<<there is from the rg veda down a movement from the west to the east, not the other way round>>>
       
      Will you please quote where in the R^igveda is mentioned this suggested east-ward movement in context of in-migration from a foreign homeland?
       
      Whenever the movement is mentioned in the first veda, it is in context of intra-India movement; e.g. indicated moving towards ga~NgA valley after the drying up of sarasvatI.
       
      I hope you are not relying upon that notrious mis-translation by Michael Witzel of the Baudhayana Srautasutra, thoroughly debunked by B B Lal, the ex-chief of Archaelogical Survey of India?  Also I hope you have taken the benefit of referring to a more controlled geo-chronological ananysis of R^igvda maNDala composition, in the research of Shrikant Talageri.
       
      Regards
      Sarvesh Tiwari
       

      To: jathistory@yahoogroups.com
      From: reisi77@...
      Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:04:46 +0100
      Subject: RE: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

       
      Namaste
       
      Aryans and dasyas are not mentioned as a race, but as people of different background.  i wrote this in the first place as a response to some postings who try to prove that jats are racially pure aryans.
       
      then perhaps you can tell me where aryans come from. you follow the theory that aryans came from india and went to europe? just read the vedas from a geographical point of view. there is from the rg veda down a movement from the west to the east, not the other way round.
       
      greetings
       
      alex

      To: jathistory@yahoogroups.com
      From: whatshappening81@...
      Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 18:17:51 +0000
      Subject: RE: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

       
       
       
      Namaste Alex,
       
       Aryans came into India?  Which Aryans are you talking about?  No where in the Vedas will u find Aryans or Dasyas mentioned as a race.  Aryan, comes from the word Arya, which is a Sanskrit word meaning noble, one of high values and principles to be specific.  Dasyas is used to describe a person possessing those qualities opposite of Arya, i.e. someone who is of an immoral nature.  Neither dasyas or Aryans are talked about in any sort of racial context.   The historians you have mentioned, not surprisingly, come from the marxist/leftist school of thought.  The same school of thought that voiced it's disgust against ancient Hindu practices such as the banning of same gothra marriages.   Many regards.
       

      To: jathistory@yahoogroups.com
      From: reisi77@...
      Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:08:37 +0100
      Subject: RE: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

       
      i dont understand your question fully. what i meant is that aryans came to india in ancient times not at one single point of time but over a period of time. this is the accepted view of many indian historians like A.L. Basham, R.S. Sharma, Romila Thapar etc.
      the vedas dont say this. i said that if one reads the vedas one can see that there are no pure aryans. the vedas talk about the assimilation of dasyas and aryans, that was my point to show that racially pure categories never existed.
       
      regards
      alex
       

      To: jathistory@yahoogroups.com
      From: whatshappening81@...
      Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 01:28:44 +0000
      Subject: RE: [JatHistory] Harrapan DNA project

       

       
      "nasal and cephalic index are seen by most scientists as scientific antiques, this was in fashion in the 19th century and very prominent among the nazis. the arguments in the article are more than weak in proving that jats are racially pure aryans (reading the vedas makes one understand that such a thing never existed, aryans came in groups to india, it was never one homogenous group from a genetical point of view) like long nose and strong physique."
       
       
       
      Where in the Vedas does it say a group called Aryans came into India?   














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