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Re: [JatHistory] Sharing of JAT DNA data

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  • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
    The lab at 23andme has received my sample and are currently processing , i should have my results in about 9 or so days. I would encourage all jats to try it
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 1, 2009
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      The lab at 23andme has received my sample and are currently processing
      , i should have my results in about 9 or so days.
      I would encourage all jats to try it out, as it a good way to explore
      your deep ancestry, together with written
      history for the cultural aspect of it.
      The 23andMe test is a bit pricy at $399 usd . the Str marker test from
      familytreedna is slightly cheaper but is more for ancestry less than
      500 yrs ago.

      If you guys share you data with me , i will be willing to tabulate
      these data in a excel sheet through google docs or something similar ,
      this will be useful for finding genealogy amongst us.

      Regards,
      Simran

      On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:24 AM, <ranjitjat@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > please add my name to your list for DNA test
      >
      > --- On Thu, 25/6/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
      > Subject: [JatHistory] Sharing of JAT DNA data
      > To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, 25 June, 2009, 7:58 AM
      >
      > Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
      > to share their dna data on 23andme.
      > I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
      > anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
      > share dna data.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Simran
      >
      >
    • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
      Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows. It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry. I m W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 17, 2009
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        Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.

        It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.

        I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .

        Some Background.

        Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
        is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
        found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
        coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
        Eastern Europe

        L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
        moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
        particularly along the Indus river.

        L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
        in northwest Pakistan.

        Take note i'm L3* .


        Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa

        Central asia - 67.25
        Northern europe -67.04
        Southern Europe - 66.94
        Near easterner - 66.79
        south american 66.72
        north american 66.67

        On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
        Sandhu<simranjits@...> wrote:
        > Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
        > to share their dna data on 23andme.
        > I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
        > anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
        > share dna data.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Simran
        >
      • Singh - Jat
        I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a mostly Eurasian ancestry.   ... From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 17, 2009
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          I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a mostly Eurasian ancestry.  

          --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

          From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
          Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
          To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM

           

          Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.

          It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.

          I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .

          Some Background.

          Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
          is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
          found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
          coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
          Eastern Europe

          L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
          moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
          particularly along the Indus river.

          L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
          in northwest Pakistan.

          Take note i'm L3* .

          Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa

          Central asia - 67.25
          Northern europe -67.04
          Southern Europe - 66.94
          Near easterner - 66.79
          south american 66.72
          north american 66.67

          On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
          Sandhu<simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
          > Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
          > to share their dna data on 23andme.
          > I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
          > anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
          > share dna data.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Simran
          >


        • Singh - Jat
          http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n1/full/5201726a.html It is worth emphasizing here that the chance of picking up rare events largely amplified by drift
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 17, 2009
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            http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n1/full/5201726a.html

            It is worth emphasizing here that the chance of picking up rare events largely amplified by drift affecting a limited portion of the population cannot be discounted, and Cruciani et al28 also recommend caution when using microsatellite alleles as surrogates of unique event polymorphisms. The genetic data alone do not tell us when the Balkan chromosomes arrived in Pakistan: it is necessary to turn to the historical record for this. There has been no known Greek admixture within the last few generations, but in addition to Alexander's armies, the possibility of admixture between the Greek slaves who were brought to this region by Xerxes around one hundred and fifty years before Alexander's arrival, and the local population, cannot be discounted. At that time Afghanistan and present day Pakistan were part of the Persian Empire.1 Nevertheless, Alexander's army of 25 000–30 000 mercenary foot soldiers from Persia and West Asia and 5000–7000 Macedonian cavalry29 perhaps provides a more likely explanation because of their elite status and substantial political impact on the region.

            --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

            From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
            Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
            To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM

             

            Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.

            It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.

            I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .

            Some Background.

            Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
            is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
            found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
            coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
            Eastern Europe

            L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
            moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
            particularly along the Indus river.

            L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
            in northwest Pakistan.

            Take note i'm L3* .

            Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa

            Central asia - 67.25
            Northern europe -67.04
            Southern Europe - 66.94
            Near easterner - 66.79
            south american 66.72
            north american 66.67

            On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
            Sandhu<simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
            > Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
            > to share their dna data on 23andme.
            > I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
            > anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
            > share dna data.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Simran
            >


          • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
            Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about my L3* though , didn t think i was related to pathans/kalash. What is your clan btw? mine
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 17, 2009
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              Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
              my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.

              What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .

              Regards,
              Simran

              On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
              > mostly Eurasian ancestry.
              >
              > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
              > Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
              > To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
              >
              > It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
              >
              > I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
              >
              > Some Background.
              >
              > Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
              > is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
              > found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
              > coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
              > Eastern Europe
              >
              > L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
              > moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
              > particularly along the Indus river.
              >
              > L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
              > in northwest Pakistan.
              >
              > Take note i'm L3* .
              >
              > Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
              >
              > Central asia - 67.25
              > Northern europe -67.04
              > Southern Europe - 66.94
              > Near easterner - 66.79
              > south american 66.72
              > north american 66.67
              >
              > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
              > Sandhu<simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
              >> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
              >> to share their dna data on 23andme.
              >> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
              >> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
              >> share dna data.
              >>
              >> Regards,
              >> Simran
              >>
              >
              >
            • Singh - Jat
              Brar ... From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday,
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 17, 2009
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                Brar

                --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

                From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM

                 

                Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.

                What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .

                Regards,
                Simran

                On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                > mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                >
                > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                >
                > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                > Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                >
                > It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                >
                > I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                >
                > Some Background.
                >
                > Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                > is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                > found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                > coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                > Eastern Europe
                >
                > L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                > moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                > particularly along the Indus river.
                >
                > L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                > in northwest Pakistan.
                >
                > Take note i'm L3* .
                >
                > Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                >
                > Central asia - 67.25
                > Northern europe -67.04
                > Southern Europe - 66.94
                > Near easterner - 66.79
                > south american 66.72
                > north american 66.67
                >
                > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                > Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                >> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                >> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                >> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                >> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                >> share dna data.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >> Simran
                >>
                >
                >


              • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
                This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the 23andme raw data files. You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don t
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
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                  This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                  23andme raw data files.

                  You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                  seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                  either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                  ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                  as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                  publicly available.

                  We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.

                  Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,

                  Europe 71.7%
                  Oceania 6.7%
                  America 4.8%
                  Africa 4.9%
                  E. Asia 11.6%

                  which is essentially bogus, especially the American.

                  Adding Pakistan

                  Europe 34.5%
                  S. Asia 53.5%
                  Oceania 4.1%
                  America 2.5%
                  Africa 2.3%
                  E. Asia 3.5%

                  Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.

                  adding the Mideast

                  Europe 23.1%
                  Mideast 5.7%
                  S. Asia 61.6%
                  Oceania 3.6%
                  America 2.2%
                  Africa 1.1%
                  E. Asia 3.1%

                  Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.

                  Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?

                  Regards,
                  Simran

                  On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Brar
                  >
                  > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                  > To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                  > my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                  >
                  > What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Simran
                  >
                  > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                  >> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                  >>
                  >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                  >> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                  >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                  >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                  >>
                  >> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                  >>
                  >> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                  >>
                  >> Some Background.
                  >>
                  >> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                  >> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                  >> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                  >> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                  >> Eastern Europe
                  >>
                  >> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                  >> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                  >> particularly along the Indus river.
                  >>
                  >> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                  >> in northwest Pakistan.
                  >>
                  >> Take note i'm L3* .
                  >>
                  >> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                  >>
                  >> Central asia - 67.25
                  >> Northern europe -67.04
                  >> Southern Europe - 66.94
                  >> Near easterner - 66.79
                  >> south american 66.72
                  >> north american 66.67
                  >>
                  >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                  >> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                  >>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                  >>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                  >>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                  >>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                  >>> share dna data.
                  >>>
                  >>> Regards,
                  >>> Simran
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                • Singh - Jat
                  which is essentially bogus, especially the American   I do not understand why is it bogus?   Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
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                    "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand why is it bogus?
                     
                    Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants from the last 500 years.  

                    --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

                    From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                    Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                    To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM

                     
                    This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                    23andme raw data files.

                    You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                    seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                    either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                    ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                    as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                    publicly available.

                    We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.

                    Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,

                    Europe 71.7%
                    Oceania 6.7%
                    America 4.8%
                    Africa 4.9%
                    E. Asia 11.6%

                    which is essentially bogus, especially the American.

                    Adding Pakistan

                    Europe 34.5%
                    S. Asia 53.5%
                    Oceania 4.1%
                    America 2.5%
                    Africa 2.3%
                    E. Asia 3.5%

                    Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.

                    adding the Mideast

                    Europe 23.1%
                    Mideast 5.7%
                    S. Asia 61.6%
                    Oceania 3.6%
                    America 2.2%
                    Africa 1.1%
                    E. Asia 3.1%

                    Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.

                    Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?

                    Regards,
                    Simran

                    On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Brar
                    >
                    > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                    > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                    > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                    > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                    > my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                    >
                    > What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Simran
                    >
                    > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                    >> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                    >>
                    >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                    >> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                    >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                    >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                    >>
                    >> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                    >>
                    >> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                    >>
                    >> Some Background.
                    >>
                    >> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                    >> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                    >> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                    >> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                    >> Eastern Europe
                    >>
                    >> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                    >> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                    >> particularly along the Indus river.
                    >>
                    >> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                    >> in northwest Pakistan.
                    >>
                    >> Take note i'm L3* .
                    >>
                    >> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                    >>
                    >> Central asia - 67.25
                    >> Northern europe -67.04
                    >> Southern Europe - 66.94
                    >> Near easterner - 66.79
                    >> south american 66.72
                    >> north american 66.67
                    >>
                    >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                    >> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                    >>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                    >>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                    >>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                    >>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                    >>> share dna data.
                    >>>
                    >>> Regards,
                    >>> Simran
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >

                  • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
                    Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn t very conclusive as i m the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of european descent to
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
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                      Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                      as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                      european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                      doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                      bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                      sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                      population.
                      I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                      opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                      him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                      or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                      Regards,
                      Simran

                      On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                      > why is it bogus?
                      >
                      > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                      > from the last 500 years.
                      >
                      > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                      > To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                      >
                      >
                      > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                      > 23andme raw data files.
                      >
                      > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                      > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                      > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                      > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                      > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                      > publicly available.
                      >
                      > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                      >
                      > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                      >
                      > Europe 71.7%
                      > Oceania 6.7%
                      > America 4.8%
                      > Africa 4.9%
                      > E. Asia 11.6%
                      >
                      > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                      >
                      > Adding Pakistan
                      >
                      > Europe 34.5%
                      > S. Asia 53.5%
                      > Oceania 4.1%
                      > America 2.5%
                      > Africa 2.3%
                      > E. Asia 3.5%
                      >
                      > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                      >
                      > adding the Mideast
                      >
                      > Europe 23.1%
                      > Mideast 5.7%
                      > S. Asia 61.6%
                      > Oceania 3.6%
                      > America 2.2%
                      > Africa 1.1%
                      > E. Asia 3.1%
                      >
                      > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                      >
                      > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Simran
                      >
                      > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Brar
                      >>
                      >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                      >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                      >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                      >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                      >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                      >>
                      >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                      >>
                      >> Regards,
                      >> Simran
                      >>
                      >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                      >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                      >>>
                      >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                      >>> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                      >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                      >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                      >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                      >>>
                      >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                      >>>
                      >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                      >>>
                      >>> Some Background.
                      >>>
                      >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                      >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                      >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                      >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                      >>> Eastern Europe
                      >>>
                      >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                      >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                      >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                      >>>
                      >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                      >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                      >>>
                      >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                      >>>
                      >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                      >>>
                      >>> Central asia - 67.25
                      >>> Northern europe -67.04
                      >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                      >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                      >>> south american 66.72
                      >>> north american 66.67
                      >>>
                      >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                      >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                      >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                      >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                      >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                      >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                      >>>> share dna data.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Regards,
                      >>>> Simran
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                    • Singh - Jat
                      I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.   Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                        Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                        The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                        The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                        Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                        --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

                        From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                        Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                        To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                         

                        Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                        as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                        european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                        doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                        bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                        sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                        population.
                        I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                        opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                        him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                        or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                        Regards,
                        Simran

                        On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                        > why is it bogus?
                        >
                        > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                        > from the last 500 years.
                        >
                        > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                        > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                        > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                        > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                        >
                        >
                        > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                        > 23andme raw data files.
                        >
                        > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                        > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                        > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                        > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                        > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                        > publicly available.
                        >
                        > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                        >
                        > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                        >
                        > Europe 71.7%
                        > Oceania 6.7%
                        > America 4.8%
                        > Africa 4.9%
                        > E. Asia 11.6%
                        >
                        > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                        >
                        > Adding Pakistan
                        >
                        > Europe 34.5%
                        > S. Asia 53.5%
                        > Oceania 4.1%
                        > America 2.5%
                        > Africa 2.3%
                        > E. Asia 3.5%
                        >
                        > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                        >
                        > adding the Mideast
                        >
                        > Europe 23.1%
                        > Mideast 5.7%
                        > S. Asia 61.6%
                        > Oceania 3.6%
                        > America 2.2%
                        > Africa 1.1%
                        > E. Asia 3.1%
                        >
                        > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                        >
                        > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > Simran
                        >
                        > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Brar
                        >>
                        >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                        >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                        >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                        >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                        >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                        >>
                        >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                        >>
                        >> Regards,
                        >> Simran
                        >>
                        >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                        >> wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                        >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                        >>>
                        >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                        >>> wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                        >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                        >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                        >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                        >>>
                        >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                        >>>
                        >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                        >>>
                        >>> Some Background.
                        >>>
                        >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                        >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                        >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                        >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                        >>> Eastern Europe
                        >>>
                        >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                        >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                        >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                        >>>
                        >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                        >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                        >>>
                        >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                        >>>
                        >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                        >>>
                        >>> Central asia - 67.25
                        >>> Northern europe -67.04
                        >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                        >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                        >>> south american 66.72
                        >>> north american 66.67
                        >>>
                        >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                        >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                        >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                        >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                        >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                        >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                        >>>> share dna data.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Regards,
                        >>>> Simran
                        >>>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >


                      • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
                        Another curious this is when i did comparions between individuals , ( we can do similarity comparison with 23andme members) I compiled the following list. I
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Another curious this is when i did comparions between individuals , ( we can do similarity comparison with 23andme members)
                          I compiled the following list. I break them down into south asian and non-south asian. Most of the south asian on 23andme service are brahmins of some type. The percentages show how similar you are to another person. The anomaly is the paki female whos surname is "Butt" ,  any thoughts?

                          Non-South Asian
                          Iranian Female [S A] 73.86 %
                          Turk/Georgian [ B O] - 73.79%
                          Irish/Armenian [N D] - 73.75%
                          English [ I G] -73.72%
                          Hungarian [K S] -73.70%
                          Greek [N M] - 73.70 %
                          Croatian [O S] - 73.69%
                          Finn [S W]- 73.69%
                          Estonian [B M] - 73.68%
                          North Euro - 73.67%
                          Central Euro - 73.65%
                          German [ G B] - 73.65 %


                          South Asian
                          Paki Female ( Butt?Kashmiri Pandit?) [Y S] - 74.20 %
                          Paki Pathan [M S] - 74.09
                          Indian Brahmin - 74.08 %
                          South Indian brahmin [A V] - 74.05 %
                          South Indian brahmin [P K] - 74.04 %
                          Konkani Brahmin [V G] - 74.03 %
                          Paki Pathan [U S]- 74.02 %
                          Pakis (Syed) [S H] - 74.01 %
                          Punjabi Jatt [S D] - 73.96 %
                          Paki/Punjabi [A J] - 73.93 %
                          Indian [S P] - 73.93 %
                          Deshastha-Konkanastha Brahmin [ V B] - 73.88 %
                          Indian [A C] - 73.86%
                          Paki Female [I M] -73.81 %

                          On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@...> wrote:
                          >  
                          >
                          > I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  
                          >
                          > Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic
                          > background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and
                          > speak an Eastern Iranic language.   
                          >
                          > The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the
                          > 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  
                          >
                          > The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish
                          > if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the
                          > phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just
                          > looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or
                          > not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always
                          > right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.
                          >
                          > Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian
                          > influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian
                          > sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where
                          > the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 
                          >
                          > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                          > To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          > Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                          > as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                          > european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                          > doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                          > bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                          > sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                          > population.
                          > I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                          > opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                          > him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                          > or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Simran
                          >
                          > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                          >> why is it bogus?
                          >>
                          >> Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent
                          >> immigrants
                          >> from the last 500 years.
                          >>
                          >> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                          >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                          >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                          >> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                          >> 23andme raw data files.
                          >>
                          >> You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                          >> seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                          >> either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                          >> ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                          >> as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                          >> publicly available.
                          >>
                          >> We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                          >>
                          >> Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                          >>
                          >> Europe 71.7%
                          >> Oceania 6.7%
                          >> America 4.8%
                          >> Africa 4.9%
                          >> E. Asia 11.6%
                          >>
                          >> which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                          >>
                          >> Adding Pakistan
                          >>
                          >> Europe 34.5%
                          >> S. Asia 53.5%
                          >> Oceania 4.1%
                          >> America 2.5%
                          >> Africa 2.3%
                          >> E. Asia 3.5%
                          >>
                          >> Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                          >>
                          >> adding the Mideast
                          >>
                          >> Europe 23.1%
                          >> Mideast 5.7%
                          >> S. Asia 61.6%
                          >> Oceania 3.6%
                          >> America 2.2%
                          >> Africa 1.1%
                          >> E. Asia 3.1%
                          >>
                          >> Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                          >>
                          >> Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                          >>
                          >> Regards,
                          >> Simran
                          >>
                          >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                          >> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Brar
                          >>>
                          >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                          >>> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                          >>> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                          >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                          >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                          >>> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                          >>>
                          >>> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                          >>>
                          >>> Regards,
                          >>> Simran
                          >>>
                          >>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                          >>> wrote:
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                          >>>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                          >>>> wrote:
                          >>>>
                          >>>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                          >>>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                          >>>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                          >>>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Some Background.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                          >>>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                          >>>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                          >>>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                          >>>> Eastern Europe
                          >>>>
                          >>>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                          >>>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                          >>>> particularly along the Indus river.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                          >>>> in northwest Pakistan.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Take note i'm L3* .
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Central asia - 67.25
                          >>>> Northern europe -67.04
                          >>>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                          >>>> Near easterner - 66.79
                          >>>> south american 66.72
                          >>>> north american 66.67
                          >>>>
                          >>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                          >>>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                          >>>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                          >>>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                          >>>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                          >>>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                          >>>>> share dna data.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Regards,
                          >>>>> Simran
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >

                        • Nadia
                          I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype...I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            " I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype...I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time"
                             
                            Do you ever take the trouble to examine your comments before posting them on this very public forum?
                             
                            I suggest you undertake the practise so that we are all spared such nonsense as you have written here.
                             
                            Self-censureship is a great tool, it spares you looking like a fool.
                             
                            Many people on this list are academically trained and for you to espouse that you are knowledgeable about the appearance of the "lower castes" in India, or that you have any knowledge about a place you have never visited,  I can only say that you have some nerve if not much intellect.
                             
                            Nadia Deol
                             
                             
                             
                             
                              
                            --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@...> wrote:

                            From: Singh - Jat <jatrajput@...>
                            Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                            To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Friday, July 24, 2009, 1:05 PM

                             
                            I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                            Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                            The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                            The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                            Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                            --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                            From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                            Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                            To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                            Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                             
                            Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                            as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                            european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                            doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                            bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                            sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                            population.
                            I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                            opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                            him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                            or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                            Regards,
                            Simran

                            On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                            > why is it bogus?
                            >
                            > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                            > from the last 500 years.
                            >
                            > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                            > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                            > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                            > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                            >
                            >
                            > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                            > 23andme raw data files.
                            >
                            > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                            > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                            > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                            > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                            > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                            > publicly available.
                            >
                            > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                            >
                            > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                            >
                            > Europe 71.7%
                            > Oceania 6.7%
                            > America 4.8%
                            > Africa 4.9%
                            > E. Asia 11.6%
                            >
                            > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                            >
                            > Adding Pakistan
                            >
                            > Europe 34.5%
                            > S. Asia 53.5%
                            > Oceania 4.1%
                            > America 2.5%
                            > Africa 2.3%
                            > E. Asia 3.5%
                            >
                            > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                            >
                            > adding the Mideast
                            >
                            > Europe 23.1%
                            > Mideast 5.7%
                            > S. Asia 61.6%
                            > Oceania 3.6%
                            > America 2.2%
                            > Africa 1.1%
                            > E. Asia 3.1%
                            >
                            > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                            >
                            > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            > Simran
                            >
                            > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Brar
                            >>
                            >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                            >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                            >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                            >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                            >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                            >>
                            >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                            >>
                            >> Regards,
                            >> Simran
                            >>
                            >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                            >> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                            >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                            >>>
                            >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                            >>> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                            >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                            >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                            >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                            >>>
                            >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                            >>>
                            >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                            >>>
                            >>> Some Background.
                            >>>
                            >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                            >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                            >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                            >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                            >>> Eastern Europe
                            >>>
                            >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                            >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                            >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                            >>>
                            >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                            >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                            >>>
                            >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                            >>>
                            >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                            >>>
                            >>> Central asia - 67.25
                            >>> Northern europe -67.04
                            >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                            >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                            >>> south american 66.72
                            >>> north american 66.67
                            >>>
                            >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                            >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                            >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                            >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                            >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                            >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                            >>>> share dna data.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Regards,
                            >>>> Simran
                            >>>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >



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                          • Singh - Jat
                            Please calm down.  You do not have to get hysterical.  Make your counter arguements from a scientific point.  I stand by what I had writen.   My
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Please calm down.  You do not have to get hysterical.  Make your counter arguements from a scientific point.  I stand by what I had writen.   My statements are based on facts. 
                               
                              I am not advocating that the lower castes are all dark skinned and all Jats are light skin.  Please let me be clear.  
                               
                              However, it is a fact that there is a color gradient when you compare the differenence in the average Mazhbi and a Jat.    You cannot deny it, and if you are then I have realized you are the fool because then you do not know what you are talking about. 
                               
                              Based on genetic studies Jats and Mazhbis cluster differently and that is a fact and it corresponds with phenotype.   
                               
                              Ask any Jat in Punjab this question and you will get the answer.   You seem to come across as a little clueless to the ground reality.

                              --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Nadia <nadiadeol@...> wrote:

                              From: Nadia <nadiadeol@...>
                              Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                              To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 10:59 PM

                               
                              " I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype... I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time"
                               
                              Do you ever take the trouble to examine your comments before posting them on this very public forum?
                               
                              I suggest you undertake the practise so that we are all spared such nonsense as you have written here.
                               
                              Self-censureship is a great tool, it spares you looking like a fool.
                               
                              Many people on this list are academically trained and for you to espouse that you are knowledgeable about the appearance of the "lower castes" in India, or that you have any knowledge about a place you have never visited,  I can only say that you have some nerve if not much intellect.
                               
                              Nadia Deol
                               
                               
                               
                               
                                
                              --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:

                              From: Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com>
                              Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                              To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                              Received: Friday, July 24, 2009, 1:05 PM

                               
                              I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                              Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                              The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                              The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                              Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                              --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                              From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                              Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                              To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                              Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                               
                              Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                              as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                              european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                              doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                              bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                              sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                              population.
                              I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                              opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                              him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                              or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                              Regards,
                              Simran

                              On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                              > why is it bogus?
                              >
                              > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                              > from the last 500 years.
                              >
                              > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                              > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                              > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                              > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                              >
                              >
                              > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                              > 23andme raw data files.
                              >
                              > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                              > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                              > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                              > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                              > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                              > publicly available.
                              >
                              > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                              >
                              > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                              >
                              > Europe 71.7%
                              > Oceania 6.7%
                              > America 4.8%
                              > Africa 4.9%
                              > E. Asia 11.6%
                              >
                              > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                              >
                              > Adding Pakistan
                              >
                              > Europe 34.5%
                              > S. Asia 53.5%
                              > Oceania 4.1%
                              > America 2.5%
                              > Africa 2.3%
                              > E. Asia 3.5%
                              >
                              > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                              >
                              > adding the Mideast
                              >
                              > Europe 23.1%
                              > Mideast 5.7%
                              > S. Asia 61.6%
                              > Oceania 3.6%
                              > America 2.2%
                              > Africa 1.1%
                              > E. Asia 3.1%
                              >
                              > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                              >
                              > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Simran
                              >
                              > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Brar
                              >>
                              >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                              >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                              >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                              >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                              >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                              >>
                              >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                              >>
                              >> Regards,
                              >> Simran
                              >>
                              >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                              >> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                              >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                              >>>
                              >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                              >>> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                              >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                              >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                              >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                              >>>
                              >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                              >>>
                              >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                              >>>
                              >>> Some Background.
                              >>>
                              >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                              >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                              >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                              >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                              >>> Eastern Europe
                              >>>
                              >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                              >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                              >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                              >>>
                              >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                              >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                              >>>
                              >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                              >>>
                              >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                              >>>
                              >>> Central asia - 67.25
                              >>> Northern europe -67.04
                              >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                              >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                              >>> south american 66.72
                              >>> north american 66.67
                              >>>
                              >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                              >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                              >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                              >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                              >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                              >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                              >>>> share dna data.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Regards,
                              >>>> Simran
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >



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                            • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
                              I think we should refrain from discussion on phenotype etc, focus more on the genetics. Seriously has no one else got tested? , we rarely feature in genetic
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I think we should refrain from discussion on phenotype etc, focus more on the genetics.
                                Seriously has no one else got tested? , we rarely feature in genetic studies and the ones we do we're lumped together normally as punjabis.
                                So i don't know who is who.  Anyone else who has tested let us know thanks.

                                Regards,
                                Simran

                                On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Please calm down.  You do not have to get hysterical.  Make your counter arguements from a scientific point.  I stand by what I had writen.   My statements are based on facts. 
                                 
                                I am not advocating that the lower castes are all dark skinned and all Jats are light skin.  Please let me be clear.  
                                 
                                However, it is a fact that there is a color gradient when you compare the differenence in the average Mazhbi and a Jat.    You cannot deny it, and if you are then I have realized you are the fool because then you do not know what you are talking about. 
                                 
                                Based on genetic studies Jats and Mazhbis cluster differently and that is a fact and it corresponds with phenotype.   
                                 
                                Ask any Jat in Punjab this question and you will get the answer.   You seem to come across as a little clueless to the ground reality.

                                --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Nadia <nadiadeol@...> wrote:

                                From: Nadia <nadiadeol@...>

                                Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 10:59 PM

                                 
                                " I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype... I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time"
                                 
                                Do you ever take the trouble to examine your comments before posting them on this very public forum?
                                 
                                I suggest you undertake the practise so that we are all spared such nonsense as you have written here.
                                 
                                Self-censureship is a great tool, it spares you looking like a fool.
                                 
                                Many people on this list are academically trained and for you to espouse that you are knowledgeable about the appearance of the "lower castes" in India, or that you have any knowledge about a place you have never visited,  I can only say that you have some nerve if not much intellect.
                                 
                                Nadia Deol
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                  
                                --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                From: Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com>
                                Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com

                                Received: Friday, July 24, 2009, 1:05 PM

                                 
                                I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                                Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                                The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                                The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                                Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                                --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                                From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                                 
                                Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                                as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                                european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                                doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                                bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                                sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                                population.
                                I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                                opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                                him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                                or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                                Regards,
                                Simran

                                On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                                > why is it bogus?
                                >
                                > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                                > from the last 500 years.
                                >
                                > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                                >
                                >
                                > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                                > 23andme raw data files.
                                >
                                > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                                > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                                > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                                > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                                > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                                > publicly available.
                                >
                                > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                                >
                                > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                                >
                                > Europe 71.7%
                                > Oceania 6.7%
                                > America 4.8%
                                > Africa 4.9%
                                > E. Asia 11.6%
                                >
                                > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                                >
                                > Adding Pakistan
                                >
                                > Europe 34.5%
                                > S. Asia 53.5%
                                > Oceania 4.1%
                                > America 2.5%
                                > Africa 2.3%
                                > E. Asia 3.5%
                                >
                                > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                                >
                                > adding the Mideast
                                >
                                > Europe 23.1%
                                > Mideast 5.7%
                                > S. Asia 61.6%
                                > Oceania 3.6%
                                > America 2.2%
                                > Africa 1.1%
                                > E. Asia 3.1%
                                >
                                > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                                >
                                > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                > Simran
                                >
                                > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> Brar
                                >>
                                >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                                >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                                >>
                                >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                                >>
                                >> Regards,
                                >> Simran
                                >>
                                >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                                >> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                                >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                                >>>
                                >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                >>> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                                >>>
                                >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                                >>>
                                >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                                >>>
                                >>> Some Background.
                                >>>
                                >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                                >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                                >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                                >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                                >>> Eastern Europe
                                >>>
                                >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                                >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                                >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                                >>>
                                >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                                >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                                >>>
                                >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                                >>>
                                >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                                >>>
                                >>> Central asia - 67.25
                                >>> Northern europe -67.04
                                >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                                >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                                >>> south american 66.72
                                >>> north american 66.67
                                >>>
                                >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                                >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                                >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                                >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                                >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                                >>>> share dna data.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Regards,
                                >>>> Simran
                                >>>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >



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                              • Singh - Jat
                                Simran,   I was trying to educate Ms. Deol who came across as self righteous.   Sure, let s focus on the genetics.   From memory if I can recall I had
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Simran,
                                   
                                  I was trying to educate Ms. Deol who came across as self righteous.   Sure, let's focus on the genetics.   From memory if I can recall I had read in a few places over these few years, genetic studies on the different populations of Punjab.  I believe there was one by Guru Nanak Dev University.   I'll research it and if I find it, will post.    
                                   
                                  Punjabis are a culture but not really a race.   Punjab has been a cultural meeting point of the Iranic and the Dravidian world.  
                                   

                                  --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

                                  From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 4:00 AM

                                   
                                  I think we should refrain from discussion on phenotype etc, focus more on the genetics.
                                  Seriously has no one else got tested? , we rarely feature in genetic studies and the ones we do we're lumped together normally as punjabis.
                                  So i don't know who is who.  Anyone else who has tested let us know thanks.

                                  Regards,
                                  Simran

                                  On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                   
                                  Please calm down.  You do not have to get hysterical.  Make your counter arguements from a scientific point.  I stand by what I had writen.   My statements are based on facts. 
                                   
                                  I am not advocating that the lower castes are all dark skinned and all Jats are light skin.  Please let me be clear.  
                                   
                                  However, it is a fact that there is a color gradient when you compare the differenence in the average Mazhbi and a Jat.    You cannot deny it, and if you are then I have realized you are the fool because then you do not know what you are talking about. 
                                   
                                  Based on genetic studies Jats and Mazhbis cluster differently and that is a fact and it corresponds with phenotype.   
                                   
                                  Ask any Jat in Punjab this question and you will get the answer.   You seem to come across as a little clueless to the ground reality.

                                  --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Nadia <nadiadeol@yahoo. ca> wrote:

                                  From: Nadia <nadiadeol@yahoo. ca>

                                  Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 10:59 PM

                                   
                                  " I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype... I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time"
                                   
                                  Do you ever take the trouble to examine your comments before posting them on this very public forum?
                                   
                                  I suggest you undertake the practise so that we are all spared such nonsense as you have written here.
                                   
                                  Self-censureship is a great tool, it spares you looking like a fool.
                                   
                                  Many people on this list are academically trained and for you to espouse that you are knowledgeable about the appearance of the "lower castes" in India, or that you have any knowledge about a place you have never visited,  I can only say that you have some nerve if not much intellect.
                                   
                                  Nadia Deol
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                    
                                  --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  From: Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com>
                                  Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com

                                  Received: Friday, July 24, 2009, 1:05 PM

                                   
                                  I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                                  Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                                  The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                                  The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                                  Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                                  --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                                  From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                  Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                                   
                                  Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                                  as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                                  european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                                  doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                                  bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                                  sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                                  population.
                                  I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                                  opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                                  him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                                  or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                                  Regards,
                                  Simran

                                  On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                                  > why is it bogus?
                                  >
                                  > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                                  > from the last 500 years.
                                  >
                                  > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                  > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                  > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                                  > 23andme raw data files.
                                  >
                                  > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                                  > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                                  > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                                  > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                                  > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                                  > publicly available.
                                  >
                                  > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                                  >
                                  > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                                  >
                                  > Europe 71.7%
                                  > Oceania 6.7%
                                  > America 4.8%
                                  > Africa 4.9%
                                  > E. Asia 11.6%
                                  >
                                  > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                                  >
                                  > Adding Pakistan
                                  >
                                  > Europe 34.5%
                                  > S. Asia 53.5%
                                  > Oceania 4.1%
                                  > America 2.5%
                                  > Africa 2.3%
                                  > E. Asia 3.5%
                                  >
                                  > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                                  >
                                  > adding the Mideast
                                  >
                                  > Europe 23.1%
                                  > Mideast 5.7%
                                  > S. Asia 61.6%
                                  > Oceania 3.6%
                                  > America 2.2%
                                  > Africa 1.1%
                                  > E. Asia 3.1%
                                  >
                                  > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                                  >
                                  > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Simran
                                  >
                                  > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Brar
                                  >>
                                  >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                  >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                  >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                                  >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                                  >>
                                  >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                                  >>
                                  >> Regards,
                                  >> Simran
                                  >>
                                  >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                                  >> wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                                  >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                  >>> wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                  >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                  >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                  >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Some Background.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                                  >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                                  >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                                  >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                                  >>> Eastern Europe
                                  >>>
                                  >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                                  >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                                  >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                                  >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Central asia - 67.25
                                  >>> Northern europe -67.04
                                  >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                                  >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                                  >>> south american 66.72
                                  >>> north american 66.67
                                  >>>
                                  >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                                  >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                  >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                                  >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                                  >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                                  >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                                  >>>> share dna data.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Regards,
                                  >>>> Simran
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >



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                                • Simranjit Singh Sandhu
                                  Yeah would love a study on punjab by people who actually know the ethnographic differences of the various populations in punjab. Punjabis seem to have very
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yeah would love a study on punjab by people who actually know the ethnographic differences of the various populations in punjab.
                                    Punjabis seem to have very interesting DNA, well from the list of people i have , paki /indian punjabis all have very varied y-dna & mtdna.

                                    Regards,
                                    Simran

                                    On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Simran,
                                     
                                    I was trying to educate Ms. Deol who came across as self righteous.   Sure, let's focus on the genetics.   From memory if I can recall I had read in a few places over these few years, genetic studies on the different populations of Punjab.  I believe there was one by Guru Nanak Dev University.   I'll research it and if I find it, will post.    
                                     
                                    Punjabis are a culture but not really a race.   Punjab has been a cultural meeting point of the Iranic and the Dravidian world.  
                                     

                                    --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

                                    From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 4:00 AM

                                     
                                    I think we should refrain from discussion on phenotype etc, focus more on the genetics.
                                    Seriously has no one else got tested? , we rarely feature in genetic studies and the ones we do we're lumped together normally as punjabis.
                                    So i don't know who is who.  Anyone else who has tested let us know thanks.

                                    Regards,
                                    Simran

                                    On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                     
                                    Please calm down.  You do not have to get hysterical.  Make your counter arguements from a scientific point.  I stand by what I had writen.   My statements are based on facts. 
                                     
                                    I am not advocating that the lower castes are all dark skinned and all Jats are light skin.  Please let me be clear.  
                                     
                                    However, it is a fact that there is a color gradient when you compare the differenence in the average Mazhbi and a Jat.    You cannot deny it, and if you are then I have realized you are the fool because then you do not know what you are talking about. 
                                     
                                    Based on genetic studies Jats and Mazhbis cluster differently and that is a fact and it corresponds with phenotype.   
                                     
                                    Ask any Jat in Punjab this question and you will get the answer.   You seem to come across as a little clueless to the ground reality.

                                    --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Nadia <nadiadeol@yahoo. ca> wrote:

                                    From: Nadia <nadiadeol@yahoo. ca>

                                    Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 10:59 PM

                                     
                                    " I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype... I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time"
                                     
                                    Do you ever take the trouble to examine your comments before posting them on this very public forum?
                                     
                                    I suggest you undertake the practise so that we are all spared such nonsense as you have written here.
                                     
                                    Self-censureship is a great tool, it spares you looking like a fool.
                                     
                                    Many people on this list are academically trained and for you to espouse that you are knowledgeable about the appearance of the "lower castes" in India, or that you have any knowledge about a place you have never visited,  I can only say that you have some nerve if not much intellect.
                                     
                                    Nadia Deol
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                      
                                    --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                    From: Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com>
                                    Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com

                                    Received: Friday, July 24, 2009, 1:05 PM

                                     
                                    I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                                    Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                                    The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                                    The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                                    Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                                    --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                                    From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                    Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                    Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                                     
                                    Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                                    as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                                    european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                                    doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                                    bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                                    sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                                    population.
                                    I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                                    opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                                    him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                                    or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                                    Regards,
                                    Simran

                                    On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                                    > why is it bogus?
                                    >
                                    > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                                    > from the last 500 years.
                                    >
                                    > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                    > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                    > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                                    > 23andme raw data files.
                                    >
                                    > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                                    > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                                    > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                                    > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                                    > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                                    > publicly available.
                                    >
                                    > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                                    >
                                    > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                                    >
                                    > Europe 71.7%
                                    > Oceania 6.7%
                                    > America 4.8%
                                    > Africa 4.9%
                                    > E. Asia 11.6%
                                    >
                                    > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                                    >
                                    > Adding Pakistan
                                    >
                                    > Europe 34.5%
                                    > S. Asia 53.5%
                                    > Oceania 4.1%
                                    > America 2.5%
                                    > Africa 2.3%
                                    > E. Asia 3.5%
                                    >
                                    > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                                    >
                                    > adding the Mideast
                                    >
                                    > Europe 23.1%
                                    > Mideast 5.7%
                                    > S. Asia 61.6%
                                    > Oceania 3.6%
                                    > America 2.2%
                                    > Africa 1.1%
                                    > E. Asia 3.1%
                                    >
                                    > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                                    >
                                    > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    > Simran
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Brar
                                    >>
                                    >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                    >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                    >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                                    >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                                    >>
                                    >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                                    >>
                                    >> Regards,
                                    >> Simran
                                    >>
                                    >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                                    >> wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                                    >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                    >>> wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                    >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                    >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                    >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Some Background.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                                    >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                                    >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                                    >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                                    >>> Eastern Europe
                                    >>>
                                    >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                                    >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                                    >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                                    >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Central asia - 67.25
                                    >>> Northern europe -67.04
                                    >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                                    >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                                    >>> south american 66.72
                                    >>> north american 66.67
                                    >>>
                                    >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                                    >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                    >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                                    >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                                    >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                                    >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                                    >>>> share dna data.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Regards,
                                    >>>> Simran
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >



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                                  • Singh - Jat
                                    http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/IJHG/IJHG-03-0-000-000-2003-Web/IJHG-03-1-001-067-2003-Abst-PDF/IJHG-03-1-045-050-2003-Sidhu/IJHG-03-1-045-050-2003-Si
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 24, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                       
                                      Here is some info. 
                                       
                                      But I do not agree with Todd or Ibetson for the fact it is not scientific. 

                                      --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...> wrote:

                                      From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 4:29 AM

                                       
                                      Yeah would love a study on punjab by people who actually know the ethnographic differences of the various populations in punjab.
                                      Punjabis seem to have very interesting DNA, well from the list of people i have , paki /indian punjabis all have very varied y-dna & mtdna.

                                      Regards,
                                      Simran

                                      On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                       
                                      Simran,
                                       
                                      I was trying to educate Ms. Deol who came across as self righteous.   Sure, let's focus on the genetics.   From memory if I can recall I had read in a few places over these few years, genetic studies on the different populations of Punjab.  I believe there was one by Guru Nanak Dev University.   I'll research it and if I find it, will post.    
                                       
                                      Punjabis are a culture but not really a race.   Punjab has been a cultural meeting point of the Iranic and the Dravidian world.  
                                       

                                      --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                                      From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                      Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 4:00 AM

                                       
                                      I think we should refrain from discussion on phenotype etc, focus more on the genetics.
                                      Seriously has no one else got tested? , we rarely feature in genetic studies and the ones we do we're lumped together normally as punjabis.
                                      So i don't know who is who.  Anyone else who has tested let us know thanks.

                                      Regards,
                                      Simran

                                      On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                       
                                      Please calm down.  You do not have to get hysterical.  Make your counter arguements from a scientific point.  I stand by what I had writen.   My statements are based on facts. 
                                       
                                      I am not advocating that the lower castes are all dark skinned and all Jats are light skin.  Please let me be clear.  
                                       
                                      However, it is a fact that there is a color gradient when you compare the differenence in the average Mazhbi and a Jat.    You cannot deny it, and if you are then I have realized you are the fool because then you do not know what you are talking about. 
                                       
                                      Based on genetic studies Jats and Mazhbis cluster differently and that is a fact and it corresponds with phenotype.   
                                       
                                      Ask any Jat in Punjab this question and you will get the answer.   You seem to come across as a little clueless to the ground reality.

                                      --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Nadia <nadiadeol@yahoo. ca> wrote:

                                      From: Nadia <nadiadeol@yahoo. ca>

                                      Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 10:59 PM

                                       
                                      " I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype... I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time"
                                       
                                      Do you ever take the trouble to examine your comments before posting them on this very public forum?
                                       
                                      I suggest you undertake the practise so that we are all spared such nonsense as you have written here.
                                       
                                      Self-censureship is a great tool, it spares you looking like a fool.
                                       
                                      Many people on this list are academically trained and for you to espouse that you are knowledgeable about the appearance of the "lower castes" in India, or that you have any knowledge about a place you have never visited,  I can only say that you have some nerve if not much intellect.
                                       
                                      Nadia Deol
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                        
                                      --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                      From: Singh - Jat <jatrajput@yahoo. com>
                                      Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com

                                      Received: Friday, July 24, 2009, 1:05 PM

                                       
                                      I am not surprised regarding you match with the core Pathan population.  

                                      Pathans are descendants of Eastern Iranian populations of Scythic background.  The Ossetians are a remnant of the Scythian population and speak an Eastern Iranic language.   

                                      The Ossetians moved into the Caucasus region because of the Mongols in the 12th century.  Prior to that the Ossetians were north of the Causcasus.  

                                      The Jats I see tend to be tall and fair skinned.   I can easily distinguish if some one if from a lower caste in Punjab just by looking at the phenotype.  It does not mean that there are not short, dark Jats but by just looking at the features one can easily distinguish if someone is  Jat or not.   I have never been to the Punjab and I can do that and almost always right all the time.   So you see phenotype and genotype do correspond.

                                      Another factor the mitochondrial DNA of Punjabis reflect west - eurasian influence and not Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA like much of the Indian sub-continent.   However this is true in the lower castes of Punjab where the Asian specific M mitochondrial DNA is more predominant. 

                                      --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:

                                      From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                      Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:01 PM

                                       
                                      Hes refering to native americans , anyways this isn't very conclusive
                                      as i'm the first south asian hes doing , he normally does people of
                                      european descent to determine which part of europe they come from. He
                                      doesn't have reference iranian or indian caste populations , only a
                                      bunch of paki pops ( baloch ,pathan , kalash , brahui , makrani ,
                                      sindhi ) . No punjabi as well, i cluster in the core pathan reference
                                      population.
                                      I expected higher south asian , like 80-90 , and 10 % euro , the
                                      opposite of native europeans but i got 23% euro. The more people send
                                      him their samples the better. We should have a jat dna project really
                                      or at least a punjabi one since jatt would narrow the scope too much.

                                      Regards,
                                      Simran

                                      On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > "which is essentially bogus, especially the American"  I do not understand
                                      > why is it bogus?
                                      >
                                      > Mabye it is referring to natives of North America, not the recent immigrants
                                      > from the last 500 years.
                                      >
                                      > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@gmail. com>
                                      > Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      > To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                      > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:51 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > This is an analysis done by a Genetics Prof who does analysis on the
                                      > 23andme raw data files.
                                      >
                                      > You test right in the core of the ordinary Pakistanis. You don't
                                      > seem to be off either toward the Pakistani groups that are toward
                                      > either East Asia or Africa. Again, this is not a great tests since
                                      > ideally there would be comparison groups from Dravidian tribes
                                      > as well as the "caste" system groups. Such data is not
                                      > publicly available.
                                      >
                                      > We also do quantitative tests, with the same quibbles.
                                      >
                                      > Leaving out the Pakistanis and the Mideast,
                                      >
                                      > Europe 71.7%
                                      > Oceania 6.7%
                                      > America 4.8%
                                      > Africa 4.9%
                                      > E. Asia 11.6%
                                      >
                                      > which is essentially bogus, especially the American.
                                      >
                                      > Adding Pakistan
                                      >
                                      > Europe 34.5%
                                      > S. Asia 53.5%
                                      > Oceania 4.1%
                                      > America 2.5%
                                      > Africa 2.3%
                                      > E. Asia 3.5%
                                      >
                                      > Which is still not ideal, but is very typical of Indians.
                                      >
                                      > adding the Mideast
                                      >
                                      > Europe 23.1%
                                      > Mideast 5.7%
                                      > S. Asia 61.6%
                                      > Oceania 3.6%
                                      > America 2.2%
                                      > Africa 1.1%
                                      > E. Asia 3.1%
                                      >
                                      > Typical north europeans test 90% euro and 8-10% pakistani for this tests.
                                      >
                                      > Anyone else here has done the 23andme test?
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      > Simran
                                      >
                                      > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Brar
                                      >>
                                      >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                      >> Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      >> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                      >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:38 PM
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Y is R only? or is it something more ? R1? R2?. I was suprised about
                                      >> my L3* though , didn't think i was related to pathans/kalash.
                                      >>
                                      >> What is your clan btw? mine is sandhu .
                                      >>
                                      >> Regards,
                                      >> Simran
                                      >>
                                      >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Singh - Jat<jatrajput@ yahoo. com>
                                      >> wrote:
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> I am R on Y and HV* on Mitochondrial DNA (maternal)  Which also shows a
                                      >>> mostly Eurasian ancestry.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                      >>> wrote:
                                      >>>
                                      >>> From: Simranjit Singh Sandhu <simranjits@ gmail. com>
                                      >>> Subject: [JatHistory] Re: Sharing of JAT DNA data
                                      >>> To: JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com
                                      >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 7:11 AM
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Hi as promised , i have gotten my results back , there are as follows.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> It seems to confirm central asian/iranian ancestry.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> I'm W3 Mtdna and L3* Y-dna!Global similarity puts me in the Pathan .
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Some Background.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Although W is most common in the Near East and south-central Asia, it
                                      >>> is also sprinkled at low levels around the rest of Eurasia. It is
                                      >>> found at single-digit percentages in central Asia, along the Atlantic
                                      >>> coast of Europe and in Finland, and slightly higher percentages in
                                      >>> Eastern Europe
                                      >>>
                                      >>> L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a
                                      >>> moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population
                                      >>> particularly along the Indus river.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> L3a (PK3) is found in a great percentage (approximately 23%) of Kalash
                                      >>> in northwest Pakistan.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Take note i'm L3* .
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Ancestry Painting is 93% Europe, 7% Asian , 0% Africa
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Central asia - 67.25
                                      >>> Northern europe -67.04
                                      >>> Southern Europe - 66.94
                                      >>> Near easterner - 66.79
                                      >>> south american 66.72
                                      >>> north american 66.67
                                      >>>
                                      >>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simranjit Singh
                                      >>> Sandhu<simranjits@ gmail. com> wrote:
                                      >>>> Would like to check if there are any other jats here that would like
                                      >>>> to share their dna data on 23andme.
                                      >>>> I have just done a test with 23andme and am waiting on the results. If
                                      >>>> anyone is interested in ancestry research etc, it would be useful to
                                      >>>> share dna data.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> Regards,
                                      >>>> Simran
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >



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