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Does Vedic Religion Exist?

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  • Mahavir
    Does Vedic Religion Exist? The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic religions i.e. Jainism and Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism from India
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 3, 2008
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      Does Vedic Religion Exist?

      The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic religions i.e. Jainism and
      Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism from India and
      suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic religion itself
      was finished!

      Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun, Agni etc.) being
      worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own Gods and they are
      now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna, Ganpati, Shiva and
      others. Vedics became idol worshippers and vegetarians because of
      influence of Jainsim.

      Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic Philosophy. I do not see
      Vedic religion anywhere.

      I would like to read your comments on this subject.

      -Mahavir Sanglikar
    • rajesh kumar
      Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per Swami Dayand s dictations. And, i believe there
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 3, 2008
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        Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
        the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
        Swami Dayand's dictations.

        And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
        Samaj across north India.

        -Rajesh


        --- Mahavir <jainismus@...> wrote:

        > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
        >
        > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
        > religions i.e. Jainism and
        > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
        > from India and
        > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
        > religion itself
        > was finished!
        >
        > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
        > Agni etc.) being
        > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
        > Gods and they are
        > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
        > Ganpati, Shiva and
        > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
        > vegetarians because of
        > influence of Jainsim.
        >
        > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
        > Philosophy. I do not see
        > Vedic religion anywhere.
        >
        > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
        >
        > -Mahavir Sanglikar
        >
        >
        >



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      • sanjeev kadian
        yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself and all religon are based
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 3, 2008
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          yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons of you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself is not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you belive ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one and every one in me". 
           
          you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always there. doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and does it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a pure energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend. 

          rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@...> wrote:
          Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
          the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
          Swami Dayand's dictations.

          And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
          Samaj across north India.

          -Rajesh

          --- Mahavir <jainismus@gmail. com> wrote:

          > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
          >
          > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
          > religions i.e. Jainism and
          > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
          > from India and
          > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
          > religion itself
          > was finished!
          >
          > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
          > Agni etc.) being
          > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
          > Gods and they are
          > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
          > Ganpati, Shiva and
          > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
          > vegetarians because of
          > influence of Jainsim.
          >
          > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
          > Philosophy. I do not see
          > Vedic religion anywhere.
          >
          > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
          >
          > -Mahavir Sanglikar
          >
          >
          >

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        • sanjeev kadian
          yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself and all religon are based
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 3, 2008
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            yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons of you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself is not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you belive ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one and every one in me". 
             
            you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always there. doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and does it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a pure energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend. 

            rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@...> wrote:
            Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
            the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
            Swami Dayand's dictations.

            And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
            Samaj across north India.

            -Rajesh

            --- Mahavir <jainismus@gmail. com> wrote:

            > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
            >
            > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
            > religions i.e. Jainism and
            > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
            > from India and
            > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
            > religion itself
            > was finished!
            >
            > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
            > Agni etc.) being
            > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
            > Gods and they are
            > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
            > Ganpati, Shiva and
            > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
            > vegetarians because of
            > influence of Jainsim.
            >
            > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
            > Philosophy. I do not see
            > Vedic religion anywhere.
            >
            > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
            >
            > -Mahavir Sanglikar
            >
            >
            >

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          • drvivekarya
            -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic ... mahavir ji jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism. they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 5, 2008
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              -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
              > religions i.e. Jainism and
              > Buddhism.


              mahavir ji

              jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism.

              they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.

              jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya dharam on name of
              ahinsma .

              this lead to loss of fighting power of our country.

              and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one know our history that
              communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a book name hindu
              itihas haro ki dastan.

              both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect of ayurveda.

              they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so banned it lead to
              loss of ancient science .

              jainism are first to start idol worship not mentioned in vedas.

              this lead to making of idols by hindus also and people forgot the
              real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga and engaged
              themselves in building temples causing loss of thousands of crores
              of money which would have benn used for hindus upliftment.

              jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and they gave poisoned
              to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.

              buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh against mohd. bin kasim
              in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control over sindh.

              same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who were thinking to
              convert him to buddhism.

              in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from his hair which wa
              drinking his blood.
              the news went to the king and he seized all his properties, ordered
              him to build a temple in memory of that lice.

              our country persons were engaged in such foolosih acts so only
              muslims and later christians become our ruler.

              vedas say jaise ko taisa.

              if any one attacks our country our duty is to fight with them . not
              to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.

              present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the sin of killing
              this animal will not go to me as i had not killed this animal .

              i can tell you many follish stories like these on from jainsim.

              last to add

              jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and went to narak
              after his death.

              mahavir ji

              i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on vedic verses
              jainsim philosophy.

              we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in front of media.

              are you having guts to come.
              its an open challenge.

              dayanand bhakt
              dr. vivek arya











              -- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, sanjeev kadian
              <sanjeev_kadian@...> wrote:
              >
              > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one
              thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself
              and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons of
              you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself is
              not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you belive
              ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one
              and every one in me".
              >
              > you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing
              they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always there.
              doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and does
              it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you
              wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a pure
              energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend.
              >
              > rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@...> wrote:
              > Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
              > the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
              > Swami Dayand's dictations.
              >
              > And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
              > Samaj across north India.
              >
              > -Rajesh
              >
              > --- Mahavir <jainismus@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
              > >
              > > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
              > > religions i.e. Jainism and
              > > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
              > > from India and
              > > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
              > > religion itself
              > > was finished!
              > >
              > > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
              > > Agni etc.) being
              > > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
              > > Gods and they are
              > > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
              > > Ganpati, Shiva and
              > > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
              > > vegetarians because of
              > > influence of Jainsim.
              > >
              > > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
              > > Philosophy. I do not see
              > > Vedic religion anywhere.
              > >
              > > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
              > >
              > > -Mahavir Sanglikar
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > __________________________________________________________
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            • Ravi Chaudhary
              ... the main criticism being directed at the 4 fold caste system, as if that was all there is to Hinduism. First it is not appropriate to use the term religion
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 7, 2008
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                --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Mahavir" <jainismus@...> wrote:
                >
                > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                > Too often there is a tendency to criticize the Hindus and Hinduism,
                the main criticism being directed at the 4 fold caste system, as if
                that was all there is to Hinduism.

                First it is not appropriate to use the term religion in the context of
                the Indic philosophies, Dharam ( which combines the spiritual, and
                the temporal, the worldly,) is more expressive and that applies to
                Buddhism, Jainism, as well as Hinduism.

                In particular it is inappropriate to use the term Vedic religion in
                the same breath as Hindu religion.

                Hinduism has many expressions, and not all agree with each other, yet
                they do co exist. In that sense, the other philosophies of the
                Indian Subcontinent, be they the Buddhism or Jainism find themselves
                associated with Hinduism in one shape, form or another.

                Undoubtedly there are many many aspects in common, and indeed one may
                say that the Hindu religion as we know it today, has is its foundation
                the concepts, axioms and beliefs that were part of the Vedic
                terminology, and it would be correct to say the modern Hinduism has
                evolved out of the Vedic philosophies, with a number of additions
                along the way.

                At its vary basic level, the concepts of Athma,( the spirit and soul)
                , Parmathma ( everlasting spirit), Moksha ,( liberation), serve as
                indicators of the human beings search for and in the spiritual world.

                One may go further and say that it is not only modern Hinduism that
                has evolved from this seeking, but also the other main ethical
                philosophical systems that evolved out of the Indian subcontinent-
                Jainism and Buddhism.

                The Vedic deities, Indra, Varun, Mitra, do not appear to have a human
                form, and it is inappropriate to classify them with the later Hindu
                deities Ram, Krishna, or the prominence achieved by Vishnu, Shiva, and
                the Devi etc etc

                Targeting the Priestly class, the Brahmins, becomes fair game, and the
                tendency to stereotype is enhanced, with all the positivity of
                Hinduism being reduced to the perceived and/or real acts of the clergy.

                When Vedic philosophy is considered, it is found to be a bit removed
                from orthodox Hinduism, with its 4 fold caste system. Indeed those who
                follow the caste system .never tire of stating that it was not always
                like this , and caste followed profession, and in time became
                calcified into rigidity( though they themselves claim, with religious
                fervor, decent from the original seers)

                One may even question that, for until quite recently, this caste
                migration was ongoing, and many so called lower castes were being
                `uplifted' to the higher `priestly/Brahmin caste.

                When we talk of the Vedic Dharam, as used by Hinduism at a higher
                level or by the Arya Samaj in general, we talk of the concepts of the
                formless, the spiritual forces, and the goal as Moksha or liberation.


                The Jats have generally followed Vedic mores, and have been reluctant
                to associate themselves with the tenets of orthodox Hinduism. That
                said Buddhism and Jainism, have also in their time found their
                following in the Jats, as did the teachings of the Sikh Gurus, Kabir,
                and other philosophers.


                Stereotyping has its pitfalls.

                Ravi Chaudhary
              • Naveen Rao
                ... Most people in India still take wedding vows in the presence of Agni. The discipline of Pranayam, which is enormously popular, invokes Vayu.
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 8, 2008
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                  --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Mahavir" <jainismus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                  >
                  > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic religions i.e. Jainism
                  > and Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism from India
                  > and suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic religion
                  > itself was finished!
                  >
                  > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun, Agni etc.)
                  > being worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own Gods and
                  > they are now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
                  > Ganpati, Shiva and others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
                  > vegetarians because of influence of Jainsim.
                  >
                  > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic Philosophy. I do not
                  > see Vedic religion anywhere.
                  >
                  > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
                  >
                  > -Mahavir Sanglikar
                  >

                  Most people in India still take wedding vows in the presence of Agni.
                  The discipline of Pranayam, which is enormously popular, invokes
                  Vayu.
                • Mahavir
                  Dear Vivekji, The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever I have said in my previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given me open challenge. I
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 9, 2008
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                    Dear Vivekji,

                    The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever I have said in my
                    previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given me open challenge.

                    I have read the book 'Hindu Itihas: Haron ki Dastan'. In the book,
                    Dr. Surendra Kumar Sharma 'Agyat' has written that the Vedic
                    philosophy, especially the Laws of Manu are responsible for defeat of
                    Indians by the invaders and not the concept of Ahimsa is responsible
                    for it. Please read the book again. If you do not have it, I an ready
                    to send you a copy.

                    I think you do not know the chronology and timeline of Indian
                    History. Please check it and you will find that India was defeated
                    only after decline of Jainism and Buddhism and when India was in the
                    hand of Vedic kings. India was defeated because of Varna and caste
                    system. Vedics did no allow Shudras, Bramhins and Vaishyas to join
                    armed forces and India was dependant on only Kshatriyas for defense.

                    Further, Dr. Sharma have written how Vedics had no system of Medical
                    aid for the soldiers.

                    According to the Vedic system, the Medicos were given Shudras class.
                    (Please tell the modern Ayurvedic Doctors, which think that they are
                    from so called upper class)

                    I have read that two Jain monks poisoned Adi Shankaracharya, and I am
                    proud of them. It was just a reaction against what Adu
                    Shankaracharya did with Jains. Jainism does not teach that if someone
                    slaps you, salute him.

                    What about the Rajputs, who didn't fight with invaders because they
                    kept cows in front of there infantry?

                    You have made baseless statements in your mail. I didn't want to
                    write all this, I request you again to read the above said book of
                    Dr. Sharma. There is nothing against Ahimsa in it and he is firm that
                    only Vedic philosophy is responsible for defeat of Indians.

                    You have written that Jainism and Buddhism are just 1200-1300 years
                    old. It is just like saying that Adi Shakaracharya founded Hinduism.
                    Please read history books for primary students, it will upgrade your
                    knowledge.

                    Please answer my basic question instead of diverting the subject:
                    Does Vedic Religion Exist?

                    Mahavir Sanglikar


                    --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "drvivekarya" <drvivekarya@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                    > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                    > > Buddhism.
                    >
                    >
                    > mahavir ji
                    >
                    > jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism.
                    >
                    > they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
                    >
                    > jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya dharam on name of
                    > ahinsma .
                    >
                    > this lead to loss of fighting power of our country.
                    >
                    > and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one know our history
                    that
                    > communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a book name hindu
                    > itihas haro ki dastan.
                    >
                    > both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect of ayurveda.
                    >
                    > they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so banned it lead to
                    > loss of ancient science .
                    >
                    > jainism are first to start idol worship not mentioned in vedas.
                    >
                    > this lead to making of idols by hindus also and people forgot the
                    > real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga and engaged
                    > themselves in building temples causing loss of thousands of crores
                    > of money which would have benn used for hindus upliftment.
                    >
                    > jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and they gave
                    poisoned
                    > to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.
                    >
                    > buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh against mohd. bin kasim
                    > in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control over sindh.
                    >
                    > same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who were thinking to
                    > convert him to buddhism.
                    >
                    > in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from his hair which wa
                    > drinking his blood.
                    > the news went to the king and he seized all his properties, ordered
                    > him to build a temple in memory of that lice.
                    >
                    > our country persons were engaged in such foolosih acts so only
                    > muslims and later christians become our ruler.
                    >
                    > vedas say jaise ko taisa.
                    >
                    > if any one attacks our country our duty is to fight with them . not
                    > to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.
                    >
                    > present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the sin of killing
                    > this animal will not go to me as i had not killed this animal .
                    >
                    > i can tell you many follish stories like these on from jainsim.
                    >
                    > last to add
                    >
                    > jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and went to narak
                    > after his death.
                    >
                    > mahavir ji
                    >
                    > i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on vedic verses
                    > jainsim philosophy.
                    >
                    > we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in front of media.
                    >
                    > are you having guts to come.
                    > its an open challenge.
                    >
                    > dayanand bhakt
                    > dr. vivek arya
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, sanjeev kadian
                    > <sanjeev_kadian@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one
                    > thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself
                    > and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons of
                    > you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself is
                    > not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you
                    belive
                    > ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one
                    > and every one in me".
                    > >
                    > > you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing
                    > they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always
                    there.
                    > doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and does
                    > it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you
                    > wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a
                    pure
                    > energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend.
                    > >
                    > > rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@> wrote:
                    > > Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
                    > > the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
                    > > Swami Dayand's dictations.
                    > >
                    > > And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
                    > > Samaj across north India.
                    > >
                    > > -Rajesh
                    > >
                    > > --- Mahavir <jainismus@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                    > > >
                    > > > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                    > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                    > > > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
                    > > > from India and
                    > > > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
                    > > > religion itself
                    > > > was finished!
                    > > >
                    > > > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
                    > > > Agni etc.) being
                    > > > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
                    > > > Gods and they are
                    > > > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
                    > > > Ganpati, Shiva and
                    > > > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
                    > > > vegetarians because of
                    > > > influence of Jainsim.
                    > > >
                    > > > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
                    > > > Philosophy. I do not see
                    > > > Vedic religion anywhere.
                    > > >
                    > > > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
                    > > >
                    > > > -Mahavir Sanglikar
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________________
                    > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                    > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                    > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
                    > category=shopping
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Click
                    > here.
                    > >
                    >
                  • sanjeev kadian
                    mahavir, yes it do exist still in Jainism also don t you have people working as preasits, doctors,labours,business men s as described in vedas let me give you
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 9, 2008
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                      mahavir,
                      yes it do exist still in Jainism also don't you have people working as preasits, doctors,labours,business men's as described in vedas let me give you a situation which will make you understand
                       
                      let all followers of Jainism start teaching Jainism and they are able to convert all people on this earth become Jain and when the last person is converted to Jain who will look after other thing cooking for you cleaning your toilet treating you when you are ill,arranging money for your survival etc, defending you from enemy ther wil be no one left to take care of all these thing.
                      vedeas say it is nessecery to have there four vernas to get thing going on you canot survive without them if you can please tell us the method of doing it we all will be happy and i personly will not belive in vedic system if you make me understad that basic thing. 
                      its a challange you will not have a answer to that at all becuase its how nature works and  are you not a part of it at all.
                       
                      its not that at start of a race is ahead its who finishes it may be vedic teaching dont hold any value for people as per your understanding but at last laws of manu will only survive not you and me.
                       
                      secondly you only think in a stright line (janisim) boy your for fathers were follower of vedas and in between you want to have a short cut in a form of adopting a branch of janisim to fufil your own desire on moksha which is also a teaching of manu.
                       
                      as yous aid shudra,vashyas,bharmin are notallowed to fight beasuse thet is not tere baby at all do you know haow to flay a fighter plain and do fighter plain piolt know how to cure a cancer patient. ther were enough of kshatiryas to fight as it was ther prime responsibility to fight and every one was dedecated to specfic job which he want to chose and it was all by choise not by birth, and it is clearly mentioned in vedas and people ony see things to ther own intrest not as a guide. as you see vedas for flaws which doesnt exist at all in it.
                       
                      so keep looikng in it youwill also have some influnce on you of vedas. 

                      Mahavir <jainismus@...> wrote:
                      Dear Vivekji,

                      The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever I have said in my
                      previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given me open challenge.

                      I have read the book 'Hindu Itihas: Haron ki Dastan'. In the book,
                      Dr. Surendra Kumar Sharma 'Agyat' has written that the Vedic
                      philosophy, especially the Laws of Manu are responsible for defeat of
                      Indians by the invaders and not the concept of Ahimsa is responsible
                      for it. Please read the book again. If you do not have it, I an ready
                      to send you a copy.

                      I think you do not know the chronology and timeline of Indian
                      History. Please check it and you will find that India was defeated
                      only after decline of Jainism and Buddhism and when India was in the
                      hand of Vedic kings. India was defeated because of Varna and caste
                      system. Vedics did no allow Shudras, Bramhins and Vaishyas to join
                      armed forces and India was dependant on only Kshatriyas for defense.

                      Further, Dr. Sharma have written how Vedics had no system of Medical
                      aid for the soldiers.

                      According to the Vedic system, the Medicos were given Shudras class.
                      (Please tell the modern Ayurvedic Doctors, which think that they are
                      from so called upper class)

                      I have read that two Jain monks poisoned Adi Shankaracharya, and I am
                      proud of them. It was just a reaction against what Adu
                      Shankaracharya did with Jains. Jainism does not teach that if someone
                      slaps you, salute him.

                      What about the Rajputs, who didn't fight with invaders because they
                      kept cows in front of there infantry?

                      You have made baseless statements in your mail. I didn't want to
                      write all this, I request you again to read the above said book of
                      Dr. Sharma. There is nothing against Ahimsa in it and he is firm that
                      only Vedic philosophy is responsible for defeat of Indians.

                      You have written that Jainism and Buddhism are just 1200-1300 years
                      old. It is just like saying that Adi Shakaracharya founded Hinduism.
                      Please read history books for primary students, it will upgrade your
                      knowledge.

                      Please answer my basic question instead of diverting the subject:
                      Does Vedic Religion Exist?

                      Mahavir Sanglikar

                      --- In JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com, "drvivekarya" <drvivekarya@ ...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                      > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                      > > Buddhism.
                      >
                      >
                      > mahavir ji
                      >
                      > jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism.
                      >
                      > they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
                      >
                      > jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya dharam on name of
                      > ahinsma .
                      >
                      > this lead to loss of fighting power of our country.
                      >
                      > and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one know our history
                      that
                      > communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a book name hindu
                      > itihas haro ki dastan.
                      >
                      > both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect of ayurveda.
                      >
                      > they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so banned it lead to
                      > loss of ancient science .
                      >
                      > jainism are first to start idol worship not mentioned in vedas.
                      >
                      > this lead to making of idols by hindus also and people forgot the
                      > real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga and engaged
                      > themselves in building temples causing loss of thousands of crores
                      > of money which would have benn used for hindus upliftment.
                      >
                      > jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and they gave
                      poisoned
                      > to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.
                      >
                      > buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh against mohd. bin kasim
                      > in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control over sindh.
                      >
                      > same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who were thinking to
                      > convert him to buddhism.
                      >
                      > in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from his hair which wa
                      > drinking his blood.
                      > the news went to the king and he seized all his properties, ordered
                      > him to build a temple in memory of that lice.
                      >
                      > our country persons were engaged in such foolosih acts so only
                      > muslims and later christians become our ruler.
                      >
                      > vedas say jaise ko taisa.
                      >
                      > if any one attacks our country our duty is to fight with them . not
                      > to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.
                      >
                      > present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the sin of killing
                      > this animal will not go to me as i had not killed this animal .
                      >
                      > i can tell you many follish stories like these on from jainsim.
                      >
                      > last to add
                      >
                      > jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and went to narak
                      > after his death.
                      >
                      > mahavir ji
                      >
                      > i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on vedic verses
                      > jainsim philosophy.
                      >
                      > we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in front of media.
                      >
                      > are you having guts to come.
                      > its an open challenge.
                      >
                      > dayanand bhakt
                      > dr. vivek arya
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -- In JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com, sanjeev kadian
                      > <sanjeev_kadian@ > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy one
                      > thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your inself
                      > and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons of
                      > you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself is
                      > not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you
                      belive
                      > ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one
                      > and every one in me".
                      > >
                      > > you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing
                      > they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always
                      there.
                      > doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and does
                      > it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you
                      > wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a
                      pure
                      > energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend.
                      > >
                      > > rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@ > wrote:
                      > > Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
                      > > the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
                      > > Swami Dayand's dictations.
                      > >
                      > > And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
                      > > Samaj across north India.
                      > >
                      > > -Rajesh
                      > >
                      > > --- Mahavir <jainismus@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                      > > >
                      > > > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                      > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                      > > > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
                      > > > from India and
                      > > > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
                      > > > religion itself
                      > > > was finished!
                      > > >
                      > > > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
                      > > > Agni etc.) being
                      > > > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
                      > > > Gods and they are
                      > > > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
                      > > > Ganpati, Shiva and
                      > > > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
                      > > > vegetarians because of
                      > > > influence of Jainsim.
                      > > >
                      > > > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
                      > > > Philosophy. I do not see
                      > > > Vedic religion anywhere.
                      > > >
                      > > > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
                      > > >
                      > > > -Mahavir Sanglikar
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                      > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                      > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                      > http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?
                      > category=shopping
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                      > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Click
                      > here.
                      > >
                      >



                      Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how.

                    • drvivekarya
                      - mahavir ji why it is always said that half knowledge is very dangerous. you have proved this very clearly. did you ever confirmed that the what are the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 9, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        -
                        mahavir ji

                        why it is always said that half knowledge is very dangerous. you
                        have proved this very clearly.

                        did you ever confirmed that the what are the sources through which
                        dr surender kumar agyat wrote that book.

                        were they authentice? he is a communist writer who wrotes only to
                        defame hindusim and all his sources are foreign biased christian
                        writers who played in hands of macauley and lobby .

                        we have published a book answering dr surender kumar
                        name hindu itihas viro ki dastan.

                        our own history books propagates many myths like
                        1. aryans came from outside, dravid aryan conflict
                        2. they were meat eaters
                        3. they use to sacrifice cow in yajnas
                        4. the castism not varn vyastha was prevalant in vedic period
                        5. position of women was inferior than man in vedic period
                        6. hinduism means dowry, superstitions, shepards songs of vedas,
                        sati pratha, child marriage, black magic etc etc.

                        western christian scholars? wrote history of india mixing all this
                        fake stuss and com nastak (communists) took them as eternal truth
                        and wrote ncert books based on them .which people like you crams
                        like parrot without thinking whether they are true or not.


                        our country was supreme till mahabharta war as we we were beleivers
                        of vedas.
                        after that war the whole system of our country started
                        deteriorating.

                        we stop obeying vedas and adopted all malpractices like

                        castism, idol worship, nin veg eating, animal sacrifice etc etc.

                        the one vedic dharma broke into various sects like vammarg,
                        buddhism, jainism etc etc.

                        adi skankracharya, kumaril bhatt tried to establish vedas and did a
                        lot .
                        in modern times swami dayanand re established vedic dharma and there
                        a above million people who beleives in vedic dharma.

                        jains killers of shankracharya are having half baked philosophy of
                        ahimsa.
                        they do not know when to use arms and when to not.

                        they boils water with alum saying no organims should go through
                        water . that alum also kills animals and the microbes dead body is
                        consumed by them.

                        a person got pus in his wound.
                        jainism does not beleives in medicines as microbes will killed in
                        body, surgery no way.

                        this lead to disappear of medical science in 1000 years as mentioned
                        in susrut and charak samhita.

                        the whole country became country of cowards under jainsism and
                        buddhism.

                        kshatriya varna lost its effect and the muslims invaders started
                        invading our country,

                        they broke all jain temples.

                        killed all jains and make lakhs of them slaves.

                        due to spread of jainsim hindus also wrote fake puranas and start
                        idol worshipping
                        instead if improvement the situation worsened.

                        now they both are doing competition who can make more magnificant
                        temple with marble.

                        hindus even started its better to be killed by insane elephant
                        instead of entering in a jain temple.

                        even in jains terapanthi is a sect who are non idol worshippers.

                        the jains in this country earns money only to waste on big temples
                        and on their sadhus who bare feets wastes their times in walking
                        whole over life.

                        this money if used for preventing conversion in poor hindus , for
                        poor kids education, for marriage of girls will benefit our
                        community.

                        manu smriti is a book which is one of most interpolated one.

                        vishuddh manu smriti is available in which 55% of manu smriti
                        shalokas are proved to be anti vedic.
                        remove them and then read.
                        you will find it not only in accordance with vedas but also very
                        useful.

                        read following books to understand what is our country true
                        history and what western people has done to it.

                        1. bharat varsh ka vrihad itihas- vol 1 and 2 by pt bhagwat datt
                        research scholar
                        2. bharat varsh ka itihas - same auther

                        3. history of our country by prof ramdev vol 1 and 2

                        mail at ajayarya@... to read these books.

                        vedic philosphy teach us that if a invader attacks your country
                        crush him as wheat is turned into flour.
                        do you knwo this?

                        our country became cowards due to sects like buddhists and idol
                        worship.
                        read this incident

                        in 8th century modh bin kasim attacked deval town of sindh.
                        the hindu king of sindh fought bravely.the buddhists of the kingdom
                        did not jelped king saying we are beleivers of ahinsa.
                        he was a follower of devi and in his fort there was a devi temple.

                        he was having a belief that until the flag over the temple will fly
                        sucess in all wars will be with him.

                        as he was going to win the war against muslims mohd.bin kasim came
                        to know about this superstition of the king.
                        he bribed the temple poojari to keep the flag down next morning.
                        as the king went in the battle field.
                        the poojari downed the flag of temple.

                        the king and his soldiers thought that the devi is not with them.
                        they all loose their heart and lost the winning battle.

                        mohd.bin kasim killed the king and captured the fort.

                        he killed the poojari too saying him as bastard.he slayed the necks
                        of all bhuddists saying in future if some one will attack my kingdom
                        then you will not help me again. will act as burden on me.

                        his army broke the idol and destroyed the temple.

                        his army raped thousands of hindu girls.

                        his army made lakhs of hindus slaves to sale in the slave market of
                        kabul.

                        he took two very beautiful daughters of king to gift to persia.


                        CAN ANY THING BE WORSE THAN THE RESULT OF IDOL WORSHIPING.
                        THIS INVASION WAS FIRST ENTRY OF MUSLIMS IN OUR COUNTRY.
                        AFTER THAT THE SAME STORY REPEATED AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR NEXT 1000
                        YEARS.

                        NEITHER KING HAD BELEIVED IN IDOL OR FLAG OF DEVI AND KEPT HIS
                        CONFIDENCE IN HIS ARMY.HE WOULD HAVE NEVER LOST THE WAR.


                        so message to all idol worshippers.

                        beleive in the formless almighty god as mentioned in vedas.

                        or the history will repeat again and again like this.


                        my discussion is open for debate.


                        dr. vivek arya











                        -- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Mahavir" <jainismus@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Vivekji,
                        >
                        > The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever I have said in
                        my
                        > previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given me open
                        challenge.
                        >
                        > I have read the book 'Hindu Itihas: Haron ki Dastan'. In the book,
                        > Dr. Surendra Kumar Sharma 'Agyat' has written that the Vedic
                        > philosophy, especially the Laws of Manu are responsible for defeat
                        of
                        > Indians by the invaders and not the concept of Ahimsa is
                        responsible
                        > for it. Please read the book again. If you do not have it, I an
                        ready
                        > to send you a copy.
                        >
                        > I think you do not know the chronology and timeline of Indian
                        > History. Please check it and you will find that India was defeated
                        > only after decline of Jainism and Buddhism and when India was in
                        the
                        > hand of Vedic kings. India was defeated because of Varna and caste
                        > system. Vedics did no allow Shudras, Bramhins and Vaishyas to join
                        > armed forces and India was dependant on only Kshatriyas for
                        defense.
                        >
                        > Further, Dr. Sharma have written how Vedics had no system of
                        Medical
                        > aid for the soldiers.
                        >
                        > According to the Vedic system, the Medicos were given Shudras
                        class.
                        > (Please tell the modern Ayurvedic Doctors, which think that they
                        are
                        > from so called upper class)
                        >
                        > I have read that two Jain monks poisoned Adi Shankaracharya, and I
                        am
                        > proud of them. It was just a reaction against what Adu
                        > Shankaracharya did with Jains. Jainism does not teach that if
                        someone
                        > slaps you, salute him.
                        >
                        > What about the Rajputs, who didn't fight with invaders because
                        they
                        > kept cows in front of there infantry?
                        >
                        > You have made baseless statements in your mail. I didn't want to
                        > write all this, I request you again to read the above said book of
                        > Dr. Sharma. There is nothing against Ahimsa in it and he is firm
                        that
                        > only Vedic philosophy is responsible for defeat of Indians.
                        >
                        > You have written that Jainism and Buddhism are just 1200-1300
                        years
                        > old. It is just like saying that Adi Shakaracharya founded
                        Hinduism.
                        > Please read history books for primary students, it will upgrade
                        your
                        > knowledge.
                        >
                        > Please answer my basic question instead of diverting the subject:
                        > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                        >
                        > Mahavir Sanglikar
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "drvivekarya" <drvivekarya@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                        > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                        > > > Buddhism.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > mahavir ji
                        > >
                        > > jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism.
                        > >
                        > > they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
                        > >
                        > > jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya dharam on name
                        of
                        > > ahinsma .
                        > >
                        > > this lead to loss of fighting power of our country.
                        > >
                        > > and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one know our history
                        > that
                        > > communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a book name
                        hindu
                        > > itihas haro ki dastan.
                        > >
                        > > both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect of ayurveda.
                        > >
                        > > they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so banned it lead to
                        > > loss of ancient science .
                        > >
                        > > jainism are first to start idol worship not mentioned in vedas.
                        > >
                        > > this lead to making of idols by hindus also and people forgot
                        the
                        > > real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga and engaged
                        > > themselves in building temples causing loss of thousands of
                        crores
                        > > of money which would have benn used for hindus upliftment.
                        > >
                        > > jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and they gave
                        > poisoned
                        > > to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.
                        > >
                        > > buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh against mohd. bin
                        kasim
                        > > in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control over sindh.
                        > >
                        > > same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who were thinking to
                        > > convert him to buddhism.
                        > >
                        > > in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from his hair which
                        wa
                        > > drinking his blood.
                        > > the news went to the king and he seized all his properties,
                        ordered
                        > > him to build a temple in memory of that lice.
                        > >
                        > > our country persons were engaged in such foolosih acts so only
                        > > muslims and later christians become our ruler.
                        > >
                        > > vedas say jaise ko taisa.
                        > >
                        > > if any one attacks our country our duty is to fight with them .
                        not
                        > > to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.
                        > >
                        > > present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the sin of
                        killing
                        > > this animal will not go to me as i had not killed this animal .
                        > >
                        > > i can tell you many follish stories like these on from jainsim.
                        > >
                        > > last to add
                        > >
                        > > jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and went to narak
                        > > after his death.
                        > >
                        > > mahavir ji
                        > >
                        > > i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on vedic verses
                        > > jainsim philosophy.
                        > >
                        > > we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in front of media.
                        > >
                        > > are you having guts to come.
                        > > its an open challenge.
                        > >
                        > > dayanand bhakt
                        > > dr. vivek arya
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, sanjeev kadian
                        > > <sanjeev_kadian@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy
                        one
                        > > thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your
                        inself
                        > > and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons
                        of
                        > > you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself
                        is
                        > > not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you
                        > belive
                        > > ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every
                        one
                        > > and every one in me".
                        > > >
                        > > > you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing
                        > > they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always
                        > there.
                        > > doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and
                        does
                        > > it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what
                        you
                        > > wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a
                        > pure
                        > > energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend.
                        > > >
                        > > > rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@> wrote:
                        > > > Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and
                        all
                        > > > the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
                        > > > Swami Dayand's dictations.
                        > > >
                        > > > And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
                        > > > Samaj across north India.
                        > > >
                        > > > -Rajesh
                        > > >
                        > > > --- Mahavir <jainismus@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                        > > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                        > > > > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
                        > > > > from India and
                        > > > > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
                        > > > > religion itself
                        > > > > was finished!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
                        > > > > Agni etc.) being
                        > > > > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
                        > > > > Gods and they are
                        > > > > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
                        > > > > Ganpati, Shiva and
                        > > > > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
                        > > > > vegetarians because of
                        > > > > influence of Jainsim.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
                        > > > > Philosophy. I do not see
                        > > > > Vedic religion anywhere.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > -Mahavir Sanglikar
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > __________________________________________________________
                        > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                        > > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                        > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
                        > > category=shopping
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ---------------------------------
                        > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox.
                        Click
                        > > here.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • rajesh kumar
                        I am unable to relate this thread with the scope/purpose of this forum - Jat History ??!! -Rajesh ... === message truncated ===
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 9, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am unable to relate this thread with the
                          scope/purpose of this forum - Jat History ??!!
                          -Rajesh

                          --- Mahavir <jainismus@...> wrote:

                          > Dear Vivekji,
                          >
                          > The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever
                          > I have said in my
                          > previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given
                          > me open challenge.
                          >
                          > I have read the book 'Hindu Itihas: Haron ki
                          > Dastan'. In the book,
                          > Dr. Surendra Kumar Sharma 'Agyat' has written that
                          > the Vedic
                          > philosophy, especially the Laws of Manu are
                          > responsible for defeat of
                          > Indians by the invaders and not the concept of
                          > Ahimsa is responsible
                          > for it. Please read the book again. If you do not
                          > have it, I an ready
                          > to send you a copy.
                          >
                          > I think you do not know the chronology and timeline
                          > of Indian
                          > History. Please check it and you will find that
                          > India was defeated
                          > only after decline of Jainism and Buddhism and when
                          > India was in the
                          > hand of Vedic kings. India was defeated because of
                          > Varna and caste
                          > system. Vedics did no allow Shudras, Bramhins and
                          > Vaishyas to join
                          > armed forces and India was dependant on only
                          > Kshatriyas for defense.
                          >
                          > Further, Dr. Sharma have written how Vedics had no
                          > system of Medical
                          > aid for the soldiers.
                          >
                          > According to the Vedic system, the Medicos were
                          > given Shudras class.
                          > (Please tell the modern Ayurvedic Doctors, which
                          > think that they are
                          > from so called upper class)
                          >
                          > I have read that two Jain monks poisoned Adi
                          > Shankaracharya, and I am
                          > proud of them. It was just a reaction against what
                          > Adu
                          > Shankaracharya did with Jains. Jainism does not
                          > teach that if someone
                          > slaps you, salute him.
                          >
                          > What about the Rajputs, who didn't fight with
                          > invaders because they
                          > kept cows in front of there infantry?
                          >
                          > You have made baseless statements in your mail. I
                          > didn't want to
                          > write all this, I request you again to read the
                          > above said book of
                          > Dr. Sharma. There is nothing against Ahimsa in it
                          > and he is firm that
                          > only Vedic philosophy is responsible for defeat of
                          > Indians.
                          >
                          > You have written that Jainism and Buddhism are just
                          > 1200-1300 years
                          > old. It is just like saying that Adi Shakaracharya
                          > founded Hinduism.
                          > Please read history books for primary students, it
                          > will upgrade your
                          > knowledge.
                          >
                          > Please answer my basic question instead of diverting
                          > the subject:
                          > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                          >
                          > Mahavir Sanglikar
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "drvivekarya"
                          > <drvivekarya@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                          > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                          > > > Buddhism.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > mahavir ji
                          > >
                          > > jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in
                          > atheism.
                          > >
                          > > they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
                          > >
                          > > jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya
                          > dharam on name of
                          > > ahinsma .
                          > >
                          > > this lead to loss of fighting power of our
                          > country.
                          > >
                          > > and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one
                          > know our history
                          > that
                          > > communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a
                          > book name hindu
                          > > itihas haro ki dastan.
                          > >
                          > > both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect
                          > of ayurveda.
                          > >
                          > > they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so
                          > banned it lead to
                          > > loss of ancient science .
                          > >
                          > > jainism are first to start idol worship not
                          > mentioned in vedas.
                          > >
                          > > this lead to making of idols by hindus also and
                          > people forgot the
                          > > real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga
                          > and engaged
                          > > themselves in building temples causing loss of
                          > thousands of crores
                          > > of money which would have benn used for hindus
                          > upliftment.
                          > >
                          > > jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and
                          > they gave
                          > poisoned
                          > > to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.
                          > >
                          > > buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh
                          > against mohd. bin kasim
                          > > in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control
                          > over sindh.
                          > >
                          > > same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who
                          > were thinking to
                          > > convert him to buddhism.
                          > >
                          > > in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from
                          > his hair which wa
                          > > drinking his blood.
                          > > the news went to the king and he seized all his
                          > properties, ordered
                          > > him to build a temple in memory of that lice.
                          > >
                          > > our country persons were engaged in such foolosih
                          > acts so only
                          > > muslims and later christians become our ruler.
                          > >
                          > > vedas say jaise ko taisa.
                          > >
                          > > if any one attacks our country our duty is to
                          > fight with them . not
                          > > to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.
                          > >
                          > > present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the
                          > sin of killing
                          > > this animal will not go to me as i had not killed
                          > this animal .
                          > >
                          > > i can tell you many follish stories like these on
                          > from jainsim.
                          > >
                          > > last to add
                          > >
                          > > jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and
                          > went to narak
                          > > after his death.
                          > >
                          > > mahavir ji
                          > >
                          > > i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on
                          > vedic verses
                          > > jainsim philosophy.
                          > >
                          > > we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in
                          > front of media.
                          > >
                          > > are you having guts to come.
                          > > its an open challenge.
                          > >
                          > > dayanand bhakt
                          > > dr. vivek arya
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > -- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, sanjeev kadian
                          > > <sanjeev_kadian@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world .
                          > let
                          === message truncated ===



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                        • kharbnarender
                          Interesting debate. Just to revitalise this debate ,I would like to add Some points .. Vedism is not native religion it is just a foregin religion came with
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 21, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Interesting debate.

                            Just to revitalise this debate ,I would like to add Some points ..

                            Vedism is not native religion it is just a foregin religion came with
                            the Vedic Brahmans like kausik ,Atri,Bhardwaj etc from whom Vedas
                            were learnt later by gangatic brahmins like Devadi ,trivedi,
                            chaturvedi,Misra and Pandey.

                            Jainism is a very old religion not 1200 or 1300 years old and
                            chandergupt Morya himself followed Jainism.

                            Vedism does survive in the form of ceremonial yagnas but original
                            vedic gods lost importance when vedics reached Indian soils and were
                            subjugated to native Gods like Shiva.

                            Jain Rishis were very much respected during Alexander times .

                            Shiva a non vedic God related to Jats was original god of Indus
                            Valley.

                            So that way Jats are older to Vedics but probably Jats too adopted
                            vedism as original vedic who came in India were too small in numbers
                            but converted native people who were called Aryans when they adopted
                            Vedism ,So though religion was foreign but followers were native and
                            with this converson spread a unique blend of vedic faith and native
                            religion from northwest to southeast understood as Invasion of Aryans
                            by Romilla Thapar,Sharma and Majumdars.






                            --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Mahavir" <jainismus@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Vivekji,
                            >
                            > The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever I have said in
                            my
                            > previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given me open
                            challenge.
                            >
                            > I have read the book 'Hindu Itihas: Haron ki Dastan'. In the book,
                            > Dr. Surendra Kumar Sharma 'Agyat' has written that the Vedic
                            > philosophy, especially the Laws of Manu are responsible for defeat
                            of
                            > Indians by the invaders and not the concept of Ahimsa is
                            responsible
                            > for it. Please read the book again. If you do not have it, I an
                            ready
                            > to send you a copy.
                            >
                            > I think you do not know the chronology and timeline of Indian
                            > History. Please check it and you will find that India was defeated
                            > only after decline of Jainism and Buddhism and when India was in
                            the
                            > hand of Vedic kings. India was defeated because of Varna and caste
                            > system. Vedics did no allow Shudras, Bramhins and Vaishyas to join
                            > armed forces and India was dependant on only Kshatriyas for
                            defense.
                            >
                            > Further, Dr. Sharma have written how Vedics had no system of
                            Medical
                            > aid for the soldiers.
                            >
                            > According to the Vedic system, the Medicos were given Shudras
                            class.
                            > (Please tell the modern Ayurvedic Doctors, which think that they
                            are
                            > from so called upper class)
                            >
                            > I have read that two Jain monks poisoned Adi Shankaracharya, and I
                            am
                            > proud of them. It was just a reaction against what Adu
                            > Shankaracharya did with Jains. Jainism does not teach that if
                            someone
                            > slaps you, salute him.
                            >
                            > What about the Rajputs, who didn't fight with invaders because they
                            > kept cows in front of there infantry?
                            >
                            > You have made baseless statements in your mail. I didn't want to
                            > write all this, I request you again to read the above said book of
                            > Dr. Sharma. There is nothing against Ahimsa in it and he is firm
                            that
                            > only Vedic philosophy is responsible for defeat of Indians.
                            >
                            > You have written that Jainism and Buddhism are just 1200-1300 years
                            > old. It is just like saying that Adi Shakaracharya founded
                            Hinduism.
                            > Please read history books for primary students, it will upgrade
                            your
                            > knowledge.
                            >
                            > Please answer my basic question instead of diverting the subject:
                            > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                            >
                            > Mahavir Sanglikar
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "drvivekarya" <drvivekarya@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                            > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                            > > > Buddhism.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > mahavir ji
                            > >
                            > > jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism.
                            > >
                            > > they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
                            > >
                            > > jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya dharam on name
                            of
                            > > ahinsma .
                            > >
                            > > this lead to loss of fighting power of our country.
                            > >
                            > > and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one know our history
                            > that
                            > > communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a book name hindu
                            > > itihas haro ki dastan.
                            > >
                            > > both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect of ayurveda.
                            > >
                            > > they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so banned it lead to
                            > > loss of ancient science .
                            > >
                            > > jainism are first to start idol worship not mentioned in vedas.
                            > >
                            > > this lead to making of idols by hindus also and people forgot the
                            > > real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga and engaged
                            > > themselves in building temples causing loss of thousands of
                            crores
                            > > of money which would have benn used for hindus upliftment.
                            > >
                            > > jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and they gave
                            > poisoned
                            > > to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.
                            > >
                            > > buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh against mohd. bin
                            kasim
                            > > in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control over sindh.
                            > >
                            > > same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who were thinking to
                            > > convert him to buddhism.
                            > >
                            > > in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from his hair which wa
                            > > drinking his blood.
                            > > the news went to the king and he seized all his properties,
                            ordered
                            > > him to build a temple in memory of that lice.
                            > >
                            > > our country persons were engaged in such foolosih acts so only
                            > > muslims and later christians become our ruler.
                            > >
                            > > vedas say jaise ko taisa.
                            > >
                            > > if any one attacks our country our duty is to fight with them .
                            not
                            > > to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.
                            > >
                            > > present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the sin of killing
                            > > this animal will not go to me as i had not killed this animal .
                            > >
                            > > i can tell you many follish stories like these on from jainsim.
                            > >
                            > > last to add
                            > >
                            > > jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and went to narak
                            > > after his death.
                            > >
                            > > mahavir ji
                            > >
                            > > i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on vedic verses
                            > > jainsim philosophy.
                            > >
                            > > we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in front of media.
                            > >
                            > > are you having guts to come.
                            > > its an open challenge.
                            > >
                            > > dayanand bhakt
                            > > dr. vivek arya
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, sanjeev kadian
                            > > <sanjeev_kadian@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy
                            one
                            > > thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your
                            inself
                            > > and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons
                            of
                            > > you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself
                            is
                            > > not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you
                            > belive
                            > > ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one
                            > > and every one in me".
                            > > >
                            > > > you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing
                            > > they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always
                            > there.
                            > > doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and
                            does
                            > > it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you
                            > > wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a
                            > pure
                            > > energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend.
                            > > >
                            > > > rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@> wrote:
                            > > > Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
                            > > > the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
                            > > > Swami Dayand's dictations.
                            > > >
                            > > > And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
                            > > > Samaj across north India.
                            > > >
                            > > > -Rajesh
                            > > >
                            > > > --- Mahavir <jainismus@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                            > > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                            > > > > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
                            > > > > from India and
                            > > > > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
                            > > > > religion itself
                            > > > > was finished!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
                            > > > > Agni etc.) being
                            > > > > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
                            > > > > Gods and they are
                            > > > > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
                            > > > > Ganpati, Shiva and
                            > > > > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
                            > > > > vegetarians because of
                            > > > > influence of Jainsim.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
                            > > > > Philosophy. I do not see
                            > > > > Vedic religion anywhere.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -Mahavir Sanglikar
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > __________________________________________________________
                            > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                            > > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                            > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
                            > > category=shopping
                            > > >
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                            > > >
                            > > > ---------------------------------
                            > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox.
                            Click
                            > > here.
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                            >
                          • AMIT PRAKASH JAIN
                            Dear shri Kharbnarendrji, You are correct that jainism is very old religion of India. The things which we got from the excavation of the sites of the indus
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 21, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear shri Kharbnarendrji,
                              You are correct that jainism is very old religion of India.
                              The things which we got from the excavation of the sites of the indus valley civilization includes some seals on which jain(digamber) idols are there which is in the typical kayotsarg mudra( the peculiar position of the jain god's idols).These are also having the symbol of ox on them which is the symbol of our first tirthankars Rishabedvji ( rishabh also means ox).
                              There is a jain idol in the mathuras mueseum which is an exact copy of the image on these seals of harappa.
                              Jainism is a pre-vedic religion.
                              Jats & other communities used to follow it.
                              Chandragupta Maurya was a jain king.Due to hatred the brahmins have described him to be a shudra in the matasya puran.
                              Can anyone believe that a brahmin (Chanakya) might have made a shudra as the king of india?
                              The Nandas,who were defeated by Shri Chandraguptji were also jains.
                              The Great king Kharvel (1st century BC) of kalinga was also a jain.He invade the south & mwest India including Punjab & got victorious.
                              Never ever their religion (ahimsa & jainism) came in their way.
                              The great Gurjar king JaysinghDev & his Son Kumarpal were Jains- they faught many battles & got victorious.
                              The great Senapati of Gangraj in Karntaka(900-100 AD) was a great jain , who bulit the Gomateshwara Bahubali's idol in Shravanbelgola.He also faught many wars & defeated pandyas & pallavas many times.
                              The great kalchuri king Bijjaval was a jain & he was very powerful.
                              The Kadam Kshatriyas of south were jains.
                              Jainism was followed by Kshatriyas & it was never a hindrence in their way.
                              Sri Vivek Aryaji has said that jainism is only 1200-1300 yrs old- this can be only laughed at.
                              There is a 2200yrs old idol of Lord Mahavira in the Lucknow mueseum.
                              The Kankali teela(jain monumeant) at mathura is 2000yrs old.
                              The inscription of the caves at udaygiri & khandgiri (at the time of Kharvel,1-2 century BC) describes that both the Magadh & the Kalinga(orissa) had jainism as their official religion.
                              What more can I say, the rigveda also mentions the names & worships our 3 tirthankars namely: Rishabhdevji, Ajitnathji & AristhaNemiji.
                              Shrimad Bhagwat has accepted Shri Rishabhdevji as the 8th avtara of narayan & has written that there was a king in the south named Arihat who accepted the matt of Rishabh avatara as jainism.
                              In the rigveda it is said that Rishabhdevji was born in the 4th geneation of the great Manu.You see Manu is described to be as the first man & Shri Rishabhji is is Great Grandson- what more is required to prove the oldness of jainism?

                               

                              Dr. A.P.Jain



                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: kharbnarender <kharbnarender@...>
                              To: JatHistory@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:23:26 PM
                              Subject: [JatHistory] Re: open challenge to mahavir ji

                              Interesting debate.

                              Just to revitalise this debate ,I would like to add Some points ..

                              Vedism is not native religion it is just a foregin religion came with
                              the Vedic Brahmans like kausik ,Atri,Bhardwaj etc from whom Vedas
                              were learnt later by gangatic brahmins like Devadi ,trivedi,
                              chaturvedi,Misra and Pandey.

                              Jainism is a very old religion not 1200 or 1300 years old and
                              chandergupt Morya himself followed Jainism.

                              Vedism does survive in the form of ceremonial yagnas but original
                              vedic gods lost importance when vedics reached Indian soils and were
                              subjugated to native Gods like Shiva.

                              Jain Rishis were very much respected during Alexander times ..

                              Shiva a non vedic God related to Jats was original god of Indus
                              Valley.

                              So that way Jats are older to Vedics but probably Jats too adopted
                              vedism as original vedic who came in India were too small in numbers
                              but converted native people who were called Aryans when they adopted
                              Vedism ,So though religion was foreign but followers were native and
                              with this converson spread a unique blend of vedic faith and native
                              religion from northwest to southeast understood as Invasion of Aryans
                              by Romilla Thapar,Sharma and Majumdars.

                              --- In JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com, "Mahavir" <jainismus@. ..> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear Vivekji,
                              >
                              > The truth has irritated you! It also means whatever I have said in
                              my
                              > previous mail is a fact! That is why you have given me open
                              challenge.
                              >
                              > I have read the book 'Hindu Itihas: Haron ki Dastan'. In the book,
                              > Dr. Surendra Kumar Sharma 'Agyat' has written that the Vedic
                              > philosophy, especially the Laws of Manu are responsible for defeat
                              of
                              > Indians by the invaders and not the concept of Ahimsa is
                              responsible
                              > for it. Please read the book again. If you do not have it, I an
                              ready
                              > to send you a copy.
                              >
                              > I think you do not know the chronology and timeline of Indian
                              > History. Please check it and you will find that India was defeated
                              > only after decline of Jainism and Buddhism and when India was in
                              the
                              > hand of Vedic kings. India was defeated because of Varna and caste
                              > system. Vedics did no allow Shudras, Bramhins and Vaishyas to join
                              > armed forces and India was dependant on only Kshatriyas for
                              defense.
                              >
                              > Further, Dr. Sharma have written how Vedics had no system of
                              Medical
                              > aid for the soldiers.
                              >
                              > According to the Vedic system, the Medicos were given Shudras
                              class.
                              > (Please tell the modern Ayurvedic Doctors, which think that they
                              are
                              > from so called upper class)
                              >
                              > I have read that two Jain monks poisoned Adi Shankaracharya, and I
                              am
                              > proud of them. It was just a reaction against what Adu
                              > Shankaracharya did with Jains. Jainism does not teach that if
                              someone
                              > slaps you, salute him.
                              >
                              > What about the Rajputs, who didn't fight with invaders because they
                              > kept cows in front of there infantry?
                              >
                              > You have made baseless statements in your mail. I didn't want to
                              > write all this, I request you again to read the above said book of
                              > Dr. Sharma. There is nothing against Ahimsa in it and he is firm
                              that
                              > only Vedic philosophy is responsible for defeat of Indians.
                              >
                              > You have written that Jainism and Buddhism are just 1200-1300 years
                              > old. It is just like saying that Adi Shakaracharya founded
                              Hinduism.
                              > Please read history books for primary students, it will upgrade
                              your
                              > knowledge.
                              >
                              > Please answer my basic question instead of diverting the subject:
                              > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                              >
                              > Mahavir Sanglikar
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com, "drvivekarya" <drvivekarya@ >
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > -@The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                              > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                              > > > Buddhism.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > mahavir ji
                              > >
                              > > jainism, bhuddism are sects which beleives in atheism.
                              > >
                              > > they are hrdly 1200- to 1300 years old.
                              > >
                              > > jainism is a sect which caused loss of kshatriya dharam on name
                              of
                              > > ahinsma .
                              > >
                              > > this lead to loss of fighting power of our country.
                              > >
                              > > and lead to muslim invasion and rest every one know our history
                              > that
                              > > communist writer dr surender kumar agyat writes a book name hindu
                              > > itihas haro ki dastan.
                              > >
                              > > both these sects lead to loss of surgical aspect of ayurveda.
                              > >
                              > > they propagated that doing surgery is hinsa so banned it lead to
                              > > loss of ancient science .
                              > >
                              > > jainism are first to start idol worship not mentioned in vedas.
                              > >
                              > > this lead to making of idols by hindus also and people forgot the
                              > > real aim of life the eternal moksha through yoga and engaged
                              > > themselves in building temples causing loss of thousands of
                              crores
                              > > of money which would have benn used for hindus upliftment.
                              > >
                              > > jainism says themselves as beleive of ahimnsa and they gave
                              > poisoned
                              > > to adi shankracharya as they lost debate with him.
                              > >
                              > > buddists did not helped raja dahir of sindh against mohd. bin
                              kasim
                              > > in war. raja lost the war and muslism got control over sindh.
                              > >
                              > > same kasim converted all buddhists to islam who were thinking to
                              > > convert him to buddhism.
                              > >
                              > > in 9th century a rich person killed a lice from his hair which wa
                              > > drinking his blood..
                              > > the news went to the king and he seized all his properties,
                              ordered
                              > > him to build a temple in memory of that lice.
                              > >
                              > > our country persons were engaged in such foolosih acts so only
                              > > muslims and later christians become our ruler.
                              > >
                              > > vedas say jaise ko taisa.
                              > >
                              > > if any one attacks our country our duty is to fight with them .
                              not
                              > > to say like cowards that it is hinsa or violence.
                              > >
                              > > present buddhists eats meat openly saying that the sin of killing
                              > > this animal will not go to me as i had not killed this animal .
                              > >
                              > > i can tell you many follish stories like these on from jainsim.
                              > >
                              > > last to add
                              > >
                              > > jainism books says that lord krishna was thief and went to narak
                              > > after his death.
                              > >
                              > > mahavir ji
                              > >
                              > > i openly challenged all jain sects for debates on vedic verses
                              > > jainsim philosophy.
                              > >
                              > > we can debate openly in delhi at a fixed place in front of media.
                              > >
                              > > are you having guts to come.
                              > > its an open challenge.
                              > >
                              > > dayanand bhakt
                              > > dr. vivek arya
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -- In JatHistory@yahoogro ups.com, sanjeev kadian
                              > > <sanjeev_kadian@ > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > yes vedic teaching does exist all over world . let me clerefy
                              one
                              > > thing vedic is not a religon friend it is how you know your
                              inself
                              > > and all religon are based on it. it teaches you the pro ons cons
                              of
                              > > you behaviour.vedas are the mother of all religons and it itself
                              is
                              > > not a religon. as it belives in sanatan dhram which means you
                              > belive
                              > > ina ny god but you attain only one thing which is "I in every one
                              > > and every one in me".
                              > > >
                              > > > you say about vedic gods yes every one still use these thing
                              > > they named it god to repect them and nature balance is always
                              > there.
                              > > doesnot you pray agani as it cooks food for you every day and
                              does
                              > > it not prayeable whitout it you even cant think to write what you
                              > > wrote. because it the energy and you are not mahavir but only a
                              > pure
                              > > energy if you respect your self you respect agni my friend.
                              > > >
                              > > > rajesh kumar <rajeshks_2001@ > wrote:
                              > > > Arya Samaj has been rooted on the Vedic mores, and all
                              > > > the Arya Samaj people do follow the Vedic mores as per
                              > > > Swami Dayand's dictations.
                              > > >
                              > > > And, i believe there is a big following of this Arya
                              > > > Samaj across north India.
                              > > >
                              > > > -Rajesh
                              > > >
                              > > > --- Mahavir <jainismus@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > Does Vedic Religion Exist?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The Vedics always tried to oppose Shramanic
                              > > > > religions i.e. Jainism and
                              > > > > Buddhism. They got success in expelling Buddhism
                              > > > > from India and
                              > > > > suppressing Jainism. But while doing this, the Vedic
                              > > > > religion itself
                              > > > > was finished!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Do you see any of the Vedic Gods (like Indra, Varun,
                              > > > > Agni etc.) being
                              > > > > worshipped today? Veidcs have thrown away their own
                              > > > > Gods and they are
                              > > > > now worshipping totally non Vedic Gods like Krishna,
                              > > > > Ganpati, Shiva and
                              > > > > others. Vedics became idol worshippers and
                              > > > > vegetarians because of
                              > > > > influence of Jainsim.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Today's Hinduism has nothing to do with Vedic
                              > > > > Philosophy. I do not see
                              > > > > Vedic religion anywhere.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I would like to read your comments on this subject.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > -Mahavir Sanglikar
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                              > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                              > > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                              > > http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?
                              > > category=shopping
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                              > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox.
                              Click
                              > > here.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >



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                            • Ravi Chaudhary
                              ... shudra as the king of india? Dr Jain Chanakya also followed jainism! How would re phrase your post now?. Ravi Chaudhary
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 22, 2008
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                                --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, AMIT PRAKASH JAIN <ameetpjain@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Can anyone believe that a brahmin (Chanakya) might have made a
                                shudra as the king of india?

                                Dr Jain

                                Chanakya also followed jainism!

                                How would re phrase your post now?.

                                Ravi Chaudhary
                              • Dr Amit Prakash Jain
                                ... Dear shri Raviji, Namaskar, I think you have not clearly understood these lines of my mail- please see it again:- Chandragupta Maurya was a jain king.Due
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 22, 2008
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                                  --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Chaudhary"
                                  <ravichaudhary2000@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, AMIT PRAKASH JAIN <ameetpjain@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Can anyone believe that a brahmin (Chanakya) might have made a
                                  > shudra as the king of india?
                                  >
                                  > Dr Jain
                                  >
                                  > Chanakya also followed jainism!
                                  >
                                  > How would re phrase your post now?.
                                  >
                                  > Ravi Chaudhary
                                  >
                                  Dear shri Raviji,
                                  Namaskar,
                                  I think you have not clearly understood these lines of my mail-
                                  please see it again:-
                                  "Chandragupta Maurya was a jain king.Due to hatred the brahmins have
                                  described him to be a shudra in the matasya puran"
                                  Chanakya was a brahmin following the vedic matt.He is responsible
                                  for training Shri Chandraguptaji & he only guided him & made him
                                  king of India.Chanakya himself became his prime minister.
                                  But, my question was that why in the Matsya puran they have
                                  described a Kshatriya that is Chandraguptji as a shudra?
                                  The reason is simple because he was a jain & was against the
                                  authority of vedas.
                                  Chanakya was not a jain, even in his "Arthashatra" he has
                                  purposefully not mentioned the jainas.
                                  Please, see it I am sorry if due to my grammar or something if wrong
                                  interpretation is made by you.
                                  Your"s
                                  Dr.A.P.Jain
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