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Re: [JatHistory] Re: Harappan civilization find in Haryana

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  • sudhir kumar
    bhatije ji kitne gaanv aap ke hain. aur kitne saal purane hain. in ki population ka data zara hamme di jiye. kahan kitne saangwaan? mere khayal se lakhon me
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 5 12:41 PM
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      bhatije ji
      kitne gaanv aap ke hain. aur kitne saal purane hain. in ki population ka data zara hamme di jiye. kahan kitne saangwaan? mere khayal se lakhon me honge. ke kitte hazarraan me phir rhao ke? 
       
      my village janauli is more than 2000 yrs old.
      500 saal me itne saangawan peda nahin ho sakte. u r sadly mistaken.
       
      tum to rajput wali katha ga rahe ho. ki saari duniyaan, hindustaan ke baad rajput se paida hui. oe guruji thermodynamics ke bad koi big-bang theory padhi hai kya. plz bring it on net. hum thermodynamics ke purane khiladi hain.
       
      jaat re jaat tere sir pe kolhu. rahnnde bojhill te marega.
       
      jat never jokes. if he says tere sir pe kolhu to us ke sir pe kolhu hoga, bhale hi ye dharti palatna ghoom jaye.
       


      Vinod Sangwan <sangwan.vinod@...> wrote:
      I agree that langauage is no proof of race, as currently held by many but this issue of migration is very complex... no single view is correct and truth includes mixture of both... we know there was later influx of people during 400BC when Cirius and Darius pushed Mandas, Dahaes/Dabas eastward... incoming of Magi priest to Yamuna is well known... There is so much in common between later rules like Harsha etc and central asian... see, my stand that we can consider India and central asia as unified territory and it doesn't make much sense in talking about migration inward or outward.... if somebody goes to tamilnadu to work do we se it as migration to Tamil?...
      But while talking about broader geography which includes Europe and semetic area then we can use terms like inasions/migrations... there again genetic proofs are shaky, some auther say something other say other things...
       
      We had talk by Dr Kalyanraman in campus last week,... 5 hr debate on these issues was simply awesome... but with more debate more questions popup.... He talked about decipherment of Indus script, vedic period, California text books... anyway, more later
       
      -Vinod
       
       


       
      On 2/23/06, kharbnarender <kharbnarender@...> wrote:

      India acquired language and not genes from west.





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    • Vinod Sangwan
      Chachji, That was funny... keep it up. -vinod
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 5 3:50 PM
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        Chachji, That was funny... keep it up.
         
        -vinod

         
        On 3/5/06, sudhir kumar <tewatiappr@...> wrote:
        bhatije ji
        kitne gaanv aap ke hain. aur kitne saal purane hain. in ki population ka data zara hamme di jiye. kahan kitne saangwaan? mere khayal se lakhon me honge. ke kitte hazarraan me phir rhao ke? 
         
        my village janauli is more than 2000 yrs old.
        500 saal me itne saangawan peda nahin ho sakte. u r sadly mistaken.
         
        tum to rajput wali katha ga rahe ho. ki saari duniyaan, hindustaan ke baad rajput se paida hui. oe guruji thermodynamics ke bad koi big-bang theory padhi hai kya. plz bring it on net. hum thermodynamics ke purane khiladi hain.
         
        jaat re jaat tere sir pe kolhu. rahnnde bojhill te marega.
         
        jat never jokes. if he says tere sir pe kolhu to us ke sir pe kolhu hoga, bhale hi ye dharti palatna ghoom jaye.
         


        Vinod Sangwan <sangwan.vinod@...> wrote:
        I agree that langauage is no proof of race, as currently held by many but this issue of migration is very complex... no single view is correct and truth includes mixture of both... we know there was later influx of people during 400BC when Cirius and Darius pushed Mandas, Dahaes/Dabas eastward... incoming of Magi priest to Yamuna is well known... There is so much in common between later rules like Harsha etc and central asian... see, my stand that we can consider India and central asia as unified territory and it doesn't make much sense in talking about migration inward or outward.... if somebody goes to tamilnadu to work do we se it as migration to Tamil?...
        But while talking about broader geography which includes Europe and semetic area then we can use terms like inasions/migrations... there again genetic proofs are shaky, some auther say something other say other things...
         
        We had talk by Dr Kalyanraman in campus last week,... 5 hr debate on these issues was simply awesome... but with more debate more questions popup.... He talked about decipherment of Indus script, vedic period, California text books... anyway, more later
         
        -Vinod
         
         


         
        On 2/23/06, kharbnarender <kharbnarender@... > wrote:

        India acquired language and not genes from west.





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        • Naveen Rao
          This thread just has a suggestion and lots of questions. Most revealing aspect of this find is that Saraswati is nothing but old Yamunua. Meaning we are not
          Message 3 of 12 , Mar 8 3:56 AM
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            This thread just has a suggestion and lots of questions.

            Most revealing aspect of this find is that 'Saraswati' is nothing but
            old Yamunua. Meaning we are not talking about two distinct rivers but
            one and the same river with two distinct names.

            Now, that would throw up a lot of questions.

            So the obvious question is when did the name Saraswati switch to
            Yamuna if it is the same river? If not then where is
            Sarsuti/Saraswati? Are we just getting too overjoyed and pretending
            to believe it to be saraswati, which actually is nothing but old
            course of Yamuna? If Yamuna changed its course i.e. from right
            through the heart of present Haryana and into north Rajasthan to
            its present one, what about other rivers? Do they also have old
            course/s which we are not aware of?

            -Naveen

            --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Chaudhary"
            <ravichaudhary2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > This is not a surprsing find.
            >
            > It only confirms the continuity of the civilization in the haryana
            > area from harrapan times - 3000- 2500 BCE.
            >
            > I belive the name harya appears in the Rig Veda too
            >
            >
            > Anybody know Mr Rajinder Dahiya?
            >
            > Ravi
            >
            >
            > Harappan city buried in Haryana's Rohtak district
            > - -
            >
            > Chandigarh: Ruins of a city dating back to Harrapa civilisation lie
            > buried
            > at Farmana Khas, about 12 kilometers from Meham on Julana road in
            Haryana.
            > While terming this discovery as very significant, a spokesman of
            > Haryana Archaeology and Museums Department said here today that it
            > would
            > be the first city of Harrapa civilisation found buried in Haryana.
            >
            > He said that it was evident from the nature of settlements and
            richness of
            > antiquities found there that the city was of Harrapa civilisation.
            He said
            > that till now the towns of this civilisation namely Banawali,
            Bhirdana and
            > village of Kunal and big towns of Rakhigarhi have come to light in
            > Haryana,
            > but the ruins of a city have not been discovered in Haryana so far.
            >
            > He said that the place of new discovery, popularly known as Daksh
            > Khera, was spread over an area of 32 acres and the ruins were under a
            > three meter high hillock. He said that keeping in view the size of
            > the area
            > of Daksh Khera, it appeared that it would have been a city of the
            > Indus-Saraswati or Harappa civilisation.
            >
            > He said that this town would have been located on then banks of river
            > Yamuna, which might be flowing through that area in ancient times.
            > A retired professor of Kurukshetra University, Dr. Suraj Bhan, had
            > observed
            > that in ancient times, river Yamuna used to pass through the areas of
            > Haryana namely Indri, Karnal, south-west of western Jamuna canal,
            Gagsina,
            > Munak, Kirsola, Poli, Farmana, Samana, Sinhwa, Chang,Mittathal, Tigrana,
            > Tosham and then it flowed towards Nohar Bhadra. A head of Tosham, this
            > course of the river has been covered by the sand ruins.
            >
            > He said that with the discovery of the ruins of Indus-Saraswati Harrapa
            > civilisation on the banks of ancient course of river Yamuna, the
            > belief has been further strengthened that it has been the civilisation
            > of the people, who belonged to the era of Rigveda. The ruins related
            > to the
            > same civilisation have also been found at Sanoli in Uttar Pradesh
            > along the
            > ancient course of river Yamuna.
            >
            > He said that the discovery of Harappa civilisation on the banks of river
            > Ravi in 1921 and of Mohenjodaro on the banks of river Indus in 1922
            have
            > made the Indian history 5000 years old. As a result of the discovery
            > of the
            > ruins related to this civilisation on the banks of Indus river and other
            > rivers, this civilisation was known as Indus valley civilisation.
            But the
            > surveys, excavations and analysis done during the following years,
            proved
            > that the remnants related to this civilisation were not confined to
            Indus
            > valley.Therefore, it was known as Harappa civilisation. Harappa is the
            > name
            > of the place from where the ruins related to this civilisation have
            > initially been discovered.
            >
            > He said that after the partition of India in 1947, two important places
            > namely Harappa and Mohenjodaro, related to this civilisation were
            left in
            > Pakistan. Therefore, a search was made to find the ruins of this
            > civilisation in the independent India. Till now, about 1500 spots
            > related to
            > this civilisation have been discovered in India and Pakistan. More
            > than 500
            > such spots have been found along the Indus river and five rivers of
            > Jehlum,
            > Ravi, Chenab, Beas and Sutlej. Also, more than 900 such spots have been
            > found along Saraswati and Drishdati rivers. Therefore, some
            archaeologists
            > have been terming the Harappa civilisation as Indus-Saraswati
            > civilisation.
            >
            > He said that this civilisation had spread over a very vast area
            with its
            > North end located at Manda on Beas river near Jammu and its South end at
            > Bhagtrav along river Tapti in Maharashtra. On the East, it was upto
            > Alamgirpur on Hindan river near Delhi and in the West it was upto
            > Satkangedor near Arabian sea. The remnants of early period of this
            > civilisation as well as when it was at its peak and of later period have
            > been found in the shape of villages, towns, cities and big cities. Such
            > big towns included Harappa, Mohenjodaro, Ganvariwala in Pakistan,
            > Dholaveera and Rakhigarhi in India.
            >
            > He regretted that urbanisation and green revolution have destroyed
            > ruins of
            > many such ancient towns and cities located on the banks of various
            > rivers.
            > Those spots, which have come to the notice of the department, have been
            > protected and some of these have been excavated. The present spot of
            > Daksh
            > Khera has been under cultivation. Also, soil was being removed from
            > adjoining areas. It appeared that earlier it was a very big area and was
            > more high.
            >
            > While referring to the chance discovery of this new spot of great
            > archeological importance near Meham in district Rohtak, he said that
            this
            > place has been observed by the Archaeological experts, who had been
            > examining a human skeleton at a nearby place. The team of experts had
            > been
            > to that place following a news item, which appeared in a Hindi Daily
            > recently regarding the discovery of some ruins of Harappa
            civilisation at
            > village Bedwa. The team of experts was lead by Assistant Director of the
            > Department Mr. J.S. Khatri and included Numismatic Officer, Mr. Madhav
            > Acharya, Assistant Archaeologist, Mr. Rajinder Singh Dahiya, Chief
            > Draftsman, Mr. Kali Ram and Photographer Mr. Darbar Singh. They observed
            > that the skeleton, about which a news item had appeared terming it
            > dating
            > back to Harappa civilisation, was wrong. It was of a recent period and
            > they
            > were of the view that the skeleton might be of a member of a community,
            > which would have died during transit and was buried there. However,
            these
            > remnants did indicate of their being of an earlier culture.
            >
            > The Director, Archeology and Museums Department Mr S.N. Roy said
            that the
            > site of the ancient city at village Farmana Khas would be protected.
            >
          • Ravi Chaudhary
            The straightforwrad answer is YES. The rivers have been been changing courses, migrating over the last 5,000 years, and as recently as 1,000 years ago. This
            Message 4 of 12 , Mar 8 6:06 AM
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              The straightforwrad answer is YES.

              The rivers have been been changing courses,'migrating'over the last
              5,000 years, and as recently as 1,000 years ago.

              This has to do with the tectonic shift in thenorth Indian plains,
              where a small rise in trrian can chnage the river course .


              Thus the Yamuna, the Sutlej, and the Drishvati, were
              tributaries(feeder) rivers to the Sarsvati.

              The courses of the tributaries chanaged, the water flow dried up, and
              the Sarasvati ended up, drying up, in the sands of Rajastahn.


              That is the simple explanation, borne out by scientifc data.

              Ravi Chaudhary


              --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Naveen Rao" <nrao2@...> wrote:
              >
              > This thread just has a suggestion and lots of questions.
              >
              > Most revealing aspect of this find is that 'Saraswati' is nothing but
              > old Yamunua. Meaning we are not talking about two distinct rivers but
              > one and the same river with two distinct names.
              >
              > Now, that would throw up a lot of questions.
              >
              > So the obvious question is when did the name Saraswati switch to
              > Yamuna if it is the same river? If not then where is
              > Sarsuti/Saraswati? Are we just getting too overjoyed and pretending
              > to believe it to be saraswati, which actually is nothing but old
              > course of Yamuna? If Yamuna changed its course i.e. from right
              > through the heart of present Haryana and into north Rajasthan to
              > its present one, what about other rivers? Do they also have old
              > course/s which we are not aware of?
              >
            • kharbnarender
              Ravi ji, I would like to disagree with you ,yamuna or ghaaggar-hakra river is not the sarswati river mentioned in rig vedic literatures. How you think so? What
              Message 5 of 12 , Mar 8 8:24 AM
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                Ravi ji,

                I would like to disagree with you ,yamuna or ghaaggar-hakra river is
                not the sarswati river mentioned in rig vedic literatures.

                How you think so?
                What is the basis of your assumption?
                Except for a solitary reference,which I doubt wether properly
                interpreted it does not seem to be assosiated with ghaggar-hakara
                least to talk of yamuna river.

                Let us discuss various evidences.



                --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Chaudhary"
                <ravichaudhary2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > The straightforwrad answer is YES.
                >
                > The rivers have been been changing courses,'migrating'over the
                last
                > 5,000 years, and as recently as 1,000 years ago.
                >
                > This has to do with the tectonic shift in thenorth Indian plains,
                > where a small rise in trrian can chnage the river course .
                >
                >
                > Thus the Yamuna, the Sutlej, and the Drishvati, were
                > tributaries(feeder) rivers to the Sarsvati.
                >
                > The courses of the tributaries chanaged, the water flow dried up,
                and
                > the Sarasvati ended up, drying up, in the sands of Rajastahn.
                >
                >
                > That is the simple explanation, borne out by scientifc data.
                >
                > Ravi Chaudhary
                >
                >
                > --- In JatHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Naveen Rao" <nrao2@> wrote:
                > >
                > > This thread just has a suggestion and lots of questions.
                > >
                > > Most revealing aspect of this find is that 'Saraswati' is
                nothing but
                > > old Yamunua. Meaning we are not talking about two distinct
                rivers but
                > > one and the same river with two distinct names.
                > >
                > > Now, that would throw up a lot of questions.
                > >
                > > So the obvious question is when did the name Saraswati switch to
                > > Yamuna if it is the same river? If not then where is
                > > Sarsuti/Saraswati? Are we just getting too overjoyed and
                pretending
                > > to believe it to be saraswati, which actually is nothing but old
                > > course of Yamuna? If Yamuna changed its course i.e. from right
                > > through the heart of present Haryana and into north Rajasthan to
                > > its present one, what about other rivers? Do they also have old
                > > course/s which we are not aware of?
                > >
                >
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