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RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

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  • Kishin Chandiramani
    HOW GOI can justify having already earned the Petrol taxes upto the tune RS.2,700 CRORES[?]; whereas the Oil/Petrol Corporations loss is only RS 1,100 CRORES
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 30, 2010
    • 0 Attachment

      HOW GOI can justify having already earned the Petrol taxes upto the tune RS.2,700 CRORES[?]; whereas the Oil/Petrol Corporations loss is only RS 1,100 CRORES OR SO. It was ....is still possible that GOI can reduce taxes on this and still make money without any loss  and avoid unnecessary high costs to the AAM ADM.........
       
      --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@...> wrote:

      From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@...>
      Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately
      To: "India Force Yahoo Gropus" <janshakti@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 8:46 PM

       
      Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
       
      Best wishes

      Beta Tester Badge 3


       

      To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
      CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
      From: mdapte@gmail. com
      Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
      Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

       
       
           Dear sir,
           Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
            With regards to all,
            -----Mukund Apte.   

      On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
       
      Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
      moderator
      ____________ ___

       
      Jairaj Yadav
      Dear Moderator

      You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

      Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

      Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

      Jairaj Yadav


      From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
      To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.inSent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
      Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

       
      Dear Member
      you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
      Prof R K Gupta
      ____________ ______
      Dear Professor Gupta

      Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

      Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
       
      Jairaj Yadav


      From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
      To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
      Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
      Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

       

      Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

      Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

      Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

      Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

      Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

      As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

      The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

      What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

      What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


      Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

      Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

      Down with him and his corrupt government!

      Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




        















































































































































































































































      < BR>












































































































































































































































































      Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
      Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
      USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
      UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
      Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
      New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
      India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
      UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
      Qatar------------1.149.82------
      Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
      Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
      Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
      Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
      Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
      South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
      Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
      Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
      Japan------------5.3246.86------
      South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
      Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
      Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
      SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
      Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
      Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
      Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
      Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
      Poland------------9.6491.41------
      Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
      Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
      Italy------------10.86101.95------
      Denmark------------10.95102.18------
      Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
      Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
      Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
      France----4.0041.00--------------
      Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
      Turkey6.5463.16------------------
      Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








      --
           With regards to all,
           ------Mukund Apte



      Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.

    • Barin Chatterjee
      Dear Shri Ramakrishna Chitrapu, If you go into the process of formation of these natural resources, you can be assured that the process is a continuous one
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 30, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Shri Ramakrishna Chitrapu,
        If you go into the process of formation of these natural resources, you can be assured that the process is a continuous one since geological age and still now it is continuing in its own environment, waiting for our deciphering capability, which should be exercised by the most demanding countries than the producing countries.
        Barin Chatterjee


        From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@...>
        To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:16:16 AM
        Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

         

        Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
         
        Best wishes

        Beta Tester Badge 3


         


        To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
        CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
        From: mdapte@gmail. com
        Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
        Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

         
         
             Dear sir,
             Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
              With regards to all,
              -----Mukund Apte.   

        On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
         

        Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?

        moderator
        ____________ ___

         
        Jairaj Yadav
        Dear Moderator

        You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

        Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

        Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

        Jairaj Yadav


        From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
        To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.inSent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
        Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

         

        Dear Member

        you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
        Prof R K Gupta
        ____________ ______
        Dear Professor Gupta

        Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

        Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
         
        Jairaj Yadav


        From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
        To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
        Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
        Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

         

        Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

        Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

        Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

        Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

        Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

        As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

        The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

        What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

        What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


        Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

        Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

        Down with him and his corrupt government!

        Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




          




























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































        Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
        Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
        USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
        UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
        Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
        New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
        India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
        UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
        Qatar------------1.149.82------
        Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
        Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
        Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
        Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
        Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
        South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
        Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
        Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
        Japan------------5.3246.86------
        South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
        Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
        Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
        SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
        Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
        Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
        Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
        Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
        Poland------------9.6491.41------
        Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
        Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
        Italy------------10.86101.95------
        Denmark------------10.95102.18------
        Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
        Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
        Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
        France----4.0041.00--------------
        Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
        Turkey6.5463.16------------------
        Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








        --
             With regards to all,
             ------Mukund Apte



        Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.

      • Ramakrishna Chitrapu
        Dear Mr Chattertjee, You must have noticed in the past when the prices of crude oil were falling the oil producing countries trying to restricting the output.
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Chitrapu ji
          I am still trying to find out amusing riddle to theoretical economics loopholes.The old or traditional school.Even having 35 years industrial background and management reserach and teaching I could never find out, how to find The value of natural resoucres.
          what these economist duds do is only take mining charges as value of goods produced from mother earth.Whatveer that is.Whenever I pose this questions to economics professors they looked other way saying one man's expense is another man's income.So GDP is easily calculated by this concept.
          They forget:
          1.That there is intrinsic or divine value of all natural items as no item is renewable exactly.Be it iron ore or a farmers grain production.Iron ore is non renewable and farmer degrades the soil.Like we say in engineering all processes in world lead to increase in entropy of universe or degradation of energy that is permanently gone.
          But these dud economists don't have any idea about it.
          2.When a person produces it, his cost also includes profits which he retains with him.Now all of this does not go in expenditure like putting money in swiss banks.Hence the concept of one man's expenses is another mans income is not really workable.It needs all money always in circulation.
          Also balck money is not counted in GDP.
          Since we have some members with excellent background in economics and other fields, can some members please explain my query.
          I think this distorted and brainless concept of economists has caused environment and various problems in society.No wonder economists are big failures as administrators.Economics is basicaaly is based on concpet and models which dont work on ground.
          How we can convince world that oil taken out by Reliance and ONGC is not free.So they simply add mining licence fee and extraction and distribution expenses as if earth has unlimited reserves of all ores and primary produce.Alll primary goods producers must add a replenishment value or premium to cost.No wonder world bugged by consumerism and wrong costing of products is getting into deep troubles.
          Can we initiate an attempt to redefine this economist concept.First thing we have to do is bid farewell to outdated economists like Man Mohan.These guys bare still trying to regulate economy by 0.5% interest rate change and CRR ratio.I can only laught in disgust.The businesses and money has grown much beyond scope of keynesian theory.
          Moderator
          ____________________
          Dear Mr Chattertjee,
           
          You must have noticed in the past when the prices of crude oil were falling the oil producing countries trying to restricting the output. It is always the producer at an advantageous position.
           
          My point was on the exhaustion of reserves. There is no chance of recylcing these reserves. Once they are exhausted we are a gone case unless we find an alternative. You know the scare about the scarcity of water..Ironically four fifths of our globe is water.. unless we find a cheap way of making the sea water potable we will have the real problem.. may not be in our life time but later.
           
           
          I was talking more about the cost of production when I sent the message. For natural reserves.. we have to take the cost on a different plane. There is no way we can determine the actual cost of the product.. in these case. How can you determine the cost ? You only know the additional cost incurred on making the raw material.. say crude oil..piped out. not the cost of the raw material.. inherent cost of it. I was talking more on that lines.
           
          Best wishes
           
          Ramakrishna
           


          Beta Tester Badge 3


           

          To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com
          From: aditibarin@...
          Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:16:08 -0700
          Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

           
          Dear Shri Ramakrishna Chitrapu,
          If you go into the process of formation of these natural resources, you can be assured that the process is a continuous one since geological age and still now it is continuing in its own environment, waiting for our deciphering capability, which should be exercised by the most demanding countries than the producing countries.
          Barin Chatterjee


          From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
          To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
          Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:16:16 AM
          Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

           

          Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
           
          Best wishes

          Beta Tester Badge 3


           


          To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
          CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
          From: mdapte@gmail. com
          Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
          Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

           
           
               Dear sir,
               Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                With regards to all,
                -----Mukund Apte.   

          On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
           
          Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
          moderator
          ____________ ___

           
          Jairaj Yadav
          Dear Moderator

          You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

          Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

          Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

          Jairaj Yadav


          From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
          To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.inSent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
          Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

           
          Dear Member

          you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
          Prof R K Gupta
          ____________ ______
          Dear Professor Gupta

          Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

          Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
           
          Jairaj Yadav


          From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
          To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
          Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

          Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
          Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

           

          Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

          Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

          Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

          Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

          Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

          As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

          The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

          What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

          What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


          Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

          Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

          Down with him and his corrupt government!

          Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




            




























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































          Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
          Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
          USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
          UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
          Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
          New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
          India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
          UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
          Qatar------------1.149.82------
          Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
          Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
          Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
          Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
          Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
          South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
          Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
          Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
          Japan------------5.3246.86------
          South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
          Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
          Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
          SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
          Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
          Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
          Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
          Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
          Poland------------9.6491.41------
          Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
          Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
          Italy------------10.86101.95------
          Denmark------------10.95102.18------
          Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
          Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
          Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
          France----4.0041.00--------------
          Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
          Turkey6.5463.16------------------
          Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








          --
               With regards to all,
               ------Mukund Apte



          Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.




          Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.
        • Mukund Apte
          Dear sir, In case our Oil Companies are in loss, how come they are going to invest lot of money in other industries? From where is THIS money coming? Only last
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear sir, In case our Oil Companies are in loss, how come they are going to invest lot of money in other industries? From where is THIS money coming? Only last week the news of investment by our oil companies was in papers.
            With regards to all,
            ------Mukund Apte

            On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Kishin Chandiramani <ohumkc@...> wrote:
             


            HOW GOI can justify having already earned the Petrol taxes upto the tune RS.2,700 CRORES[?]; whereas the Oil/Petrol Corporations loss is only RS 1,100 CRORES OR SO. It was ....is still possible that GOI can reduce taxes on this and still make money without any loss  and avoid unnecessary high costs to the AAM ADM.........
             
            --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@...> wrote:

            From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@...>
            Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately
            To: "India Force Yahoo Gropus" <janshakti@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 8:46 PM

             
            Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
             
            Best wishes

            Beta Tester Badge 3


             

            To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com

            CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
            From: mdapte@gmail. com
            Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
            Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

             
             
                 Dear sir,
                 Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                  With regards to all,
                  -----Mukund Apte.   

            On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
             
            Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
            moderator
            ____________ ___

             
            Jairaj Yadav
            Dear Moderator

            You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

            Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

            Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

            Jairaj Yadav


            From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
            To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
            Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
            Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

             
            Dear Member
            you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
            Prof R K Gupta
            ____________ ______
            Dear Professor Gupta

            Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

            Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
             
            Jairaj Yadav


            From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
            To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
            Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

            Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
            Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

             

            Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

            Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

            Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

            Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

            Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

            As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

            The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

            What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

            What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


            Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

            Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

            Down with him and his corrupt government!

            Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




              















































































































































































































































            BR>













































































































































































































































































            Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
            Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
            USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
            UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
            Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
            New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
            India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
            UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
            Qatar------------1.149.82------
            Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
            Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
            Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
            Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
            Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
            South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
            Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
            Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
            Japan------------5.3246.86------
            South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
            Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
            Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
            SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
            Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
            Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
            Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
            Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
            Poland------------9.6491.41------
            Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
            Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
            Italy------------10.86101.95------
            Denmark------------10.95102.18------
            Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
            Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
            Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
            France----4.0041.00--------------
            Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
            Turkey6.5463.16------------------
            Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








            --
                 With regards to all,
                 ------Mukund Apte



            Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.




            --
                 With regards to all,
                 ------Mukund Apte
          • Ramakrishna Chitrapu
            Dear Moderator, Good to see yopur reply. Let me tell you something. I think you are junior to me.. I was on the faculty of Commerce of the Andhra University
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 2, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Moderator,
               
              Good to see yopur reply. Let me tell you something.
               
              I think you are junior to me.. I was on the faculty of Commerce of the Andhra University teaching their special subject Cost Accounting to the Final Year M Com. students. After that I worked in Industry.. some of them  Binny Limited of Inchcape Group, India Tobacco Group of ITG UK and then National Textile Corporation and then for about twenty years overseas.
              In all I have a work experience of about over forty years.. all managemnt and very senior management level.. last twelve years as a Vice President of a company from where I retired and returned to India.
               
              I concur  with your way of thinking. I only feel the change could come if only we defeat the ruling party with a thumping majority. As otherwise the party which is filthy rich can always buy the MPs and have their way of getting the Chair.Also another important.. thing is we must have some with a strong theoretical background and a solid practical experience. This applies to every field.
               
              These politicians are capable of exagerating the figures to tilt the balance in their favour.Till yesterday no one talked about food items inflation.. Only when things started going from bad to worse these idiots started thinking about. When people were dying with the price inflation of food items they realised the gross mistake they were comitting int defining inflation.They were jumping with joy when the infltaion.. overall went down to almost zero level. The figures were manipulated. Now the cat is out of the bag.
               
              As mentioned the most important thing to be done is the control the government expenses.. I am sure you what I mean. Also some one pointed when the prices were going on sky high to releasing the food stocks from the Government Godowns as one of the many steps that could be taken.
               
              A person travles ten / fifteen seats lost.. flights are delayed..result you and I pay more for our basic needs. Globalisation.. it is not bad in concept,, but the implementation is more important. Other countries are taking avdantage and we are paying for the junk.. imported.. right from fruits to chinese goods rejected by U S A and dumped into India. Toys using paints with dangerous chemicals are being dumped into India. We are accepting them. Who cares what may happen to children as their pockets are filled.
               
              Let us hope that next elections we would be able reach the villages and get the required seats. We are peace loving people. I am telling you my prediction.. we are being cornered from all sides .. China / Pakistan and Bangladesh is dumping people in the name of refugees and our duds are head over heals to maintgain relations with china which is occupying hundreds of thousands square miles of our sacred land.. because it has no value and useless. They are building railways right up to our border.. it is with in their rights.. so many things like this.
               
              They have left out Anderson..and now they are trying to fix it up on some one.. same is the case with Quattrochi.It is just not an econmic bungle..but it is from all sides.
               
              Best wishes

              Beta Tester Badge 3


               

              To: janshakti@yahoogroups.com
              From: rkchitrapu@...
              Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:19:38 +0000
              Subject: [Janshakti] Important issue in concept of economics

               
              Dear Chitrapu ji
              I am still trying to find out amusing riddle to theoretical economics loopholes.The old or traditional school.Even having 35 years industrial background and management reserach and teaching I could never find out, how to find The value of natural resoucres.
              what these economist duds do is only take mining charges as value of goods produced from mother earth.Whatveer that is.Whenever I pose this questions to economics professors they looked other way saying one man's expense is another man's income.So GDP is easily calculated by this concept.
              They forget:
              1.That there is intrinsic or divine value of all natural items as no item is renewable exactly.Be it iron ore or a farmers grain production.Iron ore is non renewable and farmer degrades the soil.Like we say in engineering all processes in world lead to increase in entropy of universe or degradation of energy that is permanently gone.
              But these dud economists don't have any idea about it.
              2.When a person produces it, his cost also includes profits which he retains with him.Now all of this does not go in expenditure like putting money in swiss banks.Hence the concept of one man's expenses is another mans income is not really workable.It needs all money always in circulation.
              Also balck money is not counted in GDP.
              Since we have some members with excellent background in economics and other fields, can some members please explain my query.
              I think this distorted and brainless concept of economists has caused environment and various problems in society.No wonder economists are big failures as administrators. Economics is basicaaly is based on concpet and models which dont work on ground.
              How we can convince world that oil taken out by Reliance and ONGC is not free.So they simply add mining licence fee and extraction and distribution expenses as if earth has unlimited reserves of all ores and primary produce.Alll primary goods producers must add a replenishment value or premium to cost.No wonder world bugged by consumerism and wrong costing of products is getting into deep troubles.
              Can we initiate an attempt to redefine this economist concept.First thing we have to do is bid farewell to outdated economists like Man Mohan.These guys bare still trying to regulate economy by 0.5% interest rate change and CRR ratio.I can only laught in disgust.The businesses and money has grown much beyond scope of keynesian theory.
              Moderator
              ____________ ________
              Dear Mr Chattertjee,
               
              You must have noticed in the past when the prices of crude oil were falling the oil producing countries trying to restricting the output. It is always the producer at an advantageous position.
               
              My point was on the exhaustion of reserves. There is no chance of recylcing these reserves. Once they are exhausted we are a gone case unless we find an alternative. You know the scare about the scarcity of water..Ironically four fifths of our globe is water.. unless we find a cheap way of making the sea water potable we will have the real problem.. may not be in our life time but later.
               
               
              I was talking more about the cost of production when I sent the message. For natural reserves.. we have to take the cost on a different plane. There is no way we can determine the actual cost of the product.. in these case. How can you determine the cost ? You only know the additional cost incurred on making the raw material.. say crude oil..piped out. not the cost of the raw material.. inherent cost of it. I was talking more on that lines.
               
              Best wishes
               
              Ramakrishna
               


              Beta Tester Badge 3


               

              To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
              From: aditibarin@yahoo. com
              Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:16:08 -0700
              Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

               
              Dear Shri Ramakrishna Chitrapu,
              If you go into the process of formation of these natural resources, you can be assured that the process is a continuous one since geological age and still now it is continuing in its own environment, waiting for our deciphering capability, which should be exercised by the most demanding countries than the producing countries.
              Barin Chatterjee


              From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
              To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
              Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:16:16 AM
              Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

               

              Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
               
              Best wishes

              Beta Tester Badge 3


               


              To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
              CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
              From: mdapte@gmail. com
              Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
              Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

               
               
                   Dear sir,
                   Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                    With regards to all,
                    -----Mukund Apte.   

              On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
               
              Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
              moderator
              ____________ ___

               
              Jairaj Yadav
              Dear Moderator

              You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

              Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

              Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

              Jairaj Yadav


              From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
              To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.inSent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
              Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

               
              Dear Member

              you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
              Prof R K Gupta
              ____________ ______
              Dear Professor Gupta

              Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

              Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
               
              Jairaj Yadav


              From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
              To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
              Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

              Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
              Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

               

              Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

              Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

              Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

              Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

              Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

              As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

              The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

              What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

              What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


              Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

              Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

              Down with him and his corrupt government!

              Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




                




























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































              Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
              Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
              USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
              UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
              Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
              New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
              India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
              UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
              Qatar------------1.149.82------
              Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
              Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
              Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
              Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
              Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
              South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
              Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
              Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
              Japan------------5.3246.86------
              South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
              Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
              Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
              SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
              Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
              Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
              Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
              Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
              Poland------------9.6491.41------
              Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
              Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
              Italy------------10.86101.95------
              Denmark------------10.95102.18------
              Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
              Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
              Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
              France----4.0041.00--------------
              Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
              Turkey6.5463.16------------------
              Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








              --
                   With regards to all,
                   ------Mukund Apte



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            • Jai Raj Yadav
              Companies are in business of maximizing their shareholders interest and not making losses for their share holders Jairaj Yadav
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 2, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Mr Yadav
                It is amazing to see your inflexible mindset.Are you affiliated to congress party in any ay or you represent IOC or HPCL>Tell me if companies were making loss how their share prices were all above 300 rupees.Their PE ratios were all above 8.Can you also tell how USA is selling petrol at Rs 30 /litre?Do you think USA is run by idiots and we have extraordinary intelligent( or is it fool) perspn in India runnig the show.Or is it that we are ruled by corrupt and shamless guys.
                Moderator
                Companies are in business of maximizing their  shareholders interest and not making losses for their share holders
                 
                Jairaj Yadav




                From: Mukund Apte <mdapte@...>
                To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@...>
                Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 6:40:43 AM
                Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                 

                Dear sir, In case our Oil Companies are in loss, how come they are going to invest lot of money in other industries? From where is THIS money coming? Only last week the news of investment by our oil companies was in papers.

                With regards to all,
                ------Mukund Apte

                On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Kishin Chandiramani <ohumkc@yahoo. com> wrote:
                 


                HOW GOI can justify having already earned the Petrol taxes upto the tune RS.2,700 CRORES[?]; whereas the Oil/Petrol Corporations loss is only RS 1,100 CRORES OR SO. It was ....is still possible that GOI can reduce taxes on this and still make money without any loss  and avoid unnecessary high costs to the AAM ADM.........
                 
                --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com> wrote:

                From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
                Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately
                To: "India Force Yahoo Gropus" <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
                Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 8:46 PM

                 
                Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
                 
                Best wishes

                Beta Tester Badge 3


                 

                To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com

                CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
                From: mdapte@gmail. com
                Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
                Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                 
                 
                     Dear sir,
                     Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                      With regards to all,
                      -----Mukund Apte.   

                On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                 
                Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
                moderator
                ____________ ___

                 
                Jairaj Yadav
                Dear Moderator

                You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

                Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

                Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

                Jairaj Yadav


                From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
                To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
                Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
                Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                 
                Dear Member
                you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
                Prof R K Gupta
                ____________ ______
                Dear Professor Gupta

                Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

                Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
                 
                Jairaj Yadav


                From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
                To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
                Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

                Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
                Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                 

                Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

                Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

                Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

                Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

                Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

                As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

                The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

                What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

                What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


                Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

                Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

                Down with him and his corrupt government!

                Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




                  















































































































































































































































                BR>













































































































































































































































































                Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
                Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
                USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
                UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
                Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
                New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
                India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
                UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
                Qatar------------1.149.82------
                Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
                Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
                Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
                Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
                Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
                South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
                Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
                Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
                Japan------------5.3246.86------
                South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
                Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
                Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
                SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
                Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
                Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
                Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
                Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
                Poland------------9.6491.41------
                Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
                Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
                Italy------------10.86101.95------
                Denmark------------10.95102.18------
                Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
                Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
                Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
                France----4.0041.00--------------
                Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
                Turkey6.5463.16------------------
                Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








                --
                     With regards to all,
                     ------Mukund Apte



                Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.




                --
                     With regards to all,
                     ------Mukund Apte

              • Jai Raj Yadav
                Dear Sir At outset let me state that I do not belong to any party. America is operating on free market driven pricing. Diesel rate is more than that of Petrol.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 3, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  yadav
                  you are also very fond of word 'market driven' like Man Mohan.You think as Professor of management I dont understand its meaning?But you people,fail, to understand that markets are not mature in India neither consumer have rights.Are there any markets in India at all? what is a market?You compare free economy of america but not their very strict regulatory frameworks and their judiciary which works rapidly.Americans have alredy passed Wall street act just after one small computer basd anarchy in stock markets for few minutes.
                  You also dont mention their per capita income but you promote expenduiture in India putting cart before the horse.It is like baggers trying to live in palaces.This is the reason Man Mohan is a big failure.He hardly understands economics and governnace and is totaolly blinded by his american mentors so they can loot this country.Please dont give advise unless you know things deeply. Instead of doing this help us create mass opinion and save this country from disastser.If Man Mohan has guts he should disclose the prodcution cost of crude oil from local resources.I have worked long back in ONGC when few people knew about crude oil.Please dont make comments jsut for sake of opposing.
                  moderator
                  ----------------
                  Dear Sir
                   
                  At outset let me state that I do not belong to any party.
                   
                  America is operating on free market driven pricing.
                   
                  Diesel rate is more than that of Petrol.
                   

                   
                  Jairaj Yadav
                   


                  From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@...>
                  To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 8:14:06 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                   

                  Mr Yadav

                  It is amazing to see your inflexible mindset.Are you affiliated to congress party in any ay or you represent IOC or HPCL>Tell me if companies were making loss how their share prices were all above 300 rupees.Their PE ratios were all above 8.Can you also tell how USA is selling petrol at Rs 30 /litre?Do you think USA is run by idiots and we have extraordinary intelligent( or is it fool) perspn in India runnig the show.Or is it that we are ruled by corrupt and shamless guys.
                  Moderator
                  Companies are in business of maximizing their  shareholders interest and not making losses for their share holders
                   
                  Jairaj Yadav




                  From: Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail. com>
                  To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                  Cc: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
                  Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 6:40:43 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                   

                  Dear sir, In case our Oil Companies are in loss, how come they are going to invest lot of money in other industries? From where is THIS money coming? Only last week the news of investment by our oil companies was in papers.

                  With regards to all,
                  ------Mukund Apte

                  On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Kishin Chandiramani <ohumkc@yahoo. com> wrote:
                   


                  HOW GOI can justify having already earned the Petrol taxes upto the tune RS.2,700 CRORES[?]; whereas the Oil/Petrol Corporations loss is only RS 1,100 CRORES OR SO. It was ....is still possible that GOI can reduce taxes on this and still make money without any loss  and avoid unnecessary high costs to the AAM ADM.........
                   
                  --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com> wrote:

                  From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
                  Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately
                  To: "India Force Yahoo Gropus" <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
                  Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 8:46 PM

                   
                  Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
                   
                  Best wishes

                  Beta Tester Badge 3


                   

                  To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com

                  CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
                  From: mdapte@gmail. com
                  Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
                  Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                   
                   
                       Dear sir,
                       Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                        With regards to all,
                        -----Mukund Apte.   

                  On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                   
                  Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
                  moderator
                  ____________ ___

                   
                  Jairaj Yadav
                  Dear Moderator

                  You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

                  Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

                  Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

                  Jairaj Yadav


                  From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
                  To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
                  Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                   
                  Dear Member
                  you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
                  Prof R K Gupta
                  ____________ ______
                  Dear Professor Gupta

                  Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

                  Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
                   
                  Jairaj Yadav


                  From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
                  To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
                  Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

                  Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
                  Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                   

                  Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

                  Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

                  Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

                  Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

                  Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

                  As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

                  The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

                  What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

                  What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


                  Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

                  Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

                  Down with him and his corrupt government!

                  Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




                    















































































































































































































































                  B R>















































































































































































































































                  < BR>




























                  Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
                  Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
                  USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
                  UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
                  Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
                  New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
                  India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
                  UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
                  Qatar------------1.149.82------
                  Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
                  Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
                  Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
                  Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
                  Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
                  South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
                  Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
                  Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
                  Japan------------5.3246.86------
                  South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
                  Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
                  Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
                  SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
                  Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
                  Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
                  Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
                  Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
                  Poland------------9.6491.41------
                  Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
                  Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
                  Italy------------10.86101.95------
                  Denmark------------10.95102.18------
                  Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
                  Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
                  Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
                  France----4.0041.00--------------
                  Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
                  Turkey6.5463.16------------------
                  Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








                  --
                       With regards to all,
                       ------Mukund Apte



                  Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.




                  --
                       With regards to all,
                       ------Mukund Apte


                • Sudhakaran C K
                  Sirs, pl. pardon me for joining you elite group s discussion on the price rise, subsidy and related matters....  being a lay man I may not be competent to
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 3, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sirs,
                    pl. pardon me for joining you elite group's discussion on the price rise, subsidy and related matters.... 
                    being a lay man I may not be competent to comment on much of the discussion... 
                    But the sentence quoted bellow, your single point remedy for all the ills of our society, attracted my attention
                     "I concur  with your way of thinking. I only feel the change could come if only we defeat the ruling party with a thumping majority"

                    That sentence surely declares your erudition and integrity!

                    We have not forgotten that BJP, according to its own leaders, had been auctioning their Tickets left after expropriation between the reigning leaders and their scions in last Lok-sabha election.

                    They together with Lallu, Thakreys, Karunanidhi, Sh Abdulla, Mehbooba, Mayavathi... etc... etc... dynasties would surely be better that the present dynasty... because they have nothing worry about India... it is Bihar, Maratha, Tamil, Kashmire, Utar Pradesh, Lalith, Brahmin... etc... not at all Indian... 

                    We can help them to restore our past glory of many independent dynasties ruling parts of the 'Arsh Barat' and fight against each other...

                    ...and they would help us to bring back Briton or China to unite us again.

                     

                    So what... Congress would not be allowed to rule us at any cost.

                     

                    I had been telling that 'Hypocrisy and cowardice have become our society's trait'  

                    Thank you for giving me more evidence to prove it

                     

                    C.K.Sudhakaran
                    Web: http://www.greatindiatrust.org , Mail: sudhakaranck@...
                    Join our Yahoogroup: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia
                    Phone: +91 9745821113, 0480 2804452, Kerala




                    From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@...>
                    To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:42:44 PM
                    Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Important issue in concept of economics

                     

                    Dear Moderator,
                     
                    Good to see yopur reply. Let me tell you something.
                     
                    I think you are junior to me.. I was on the faculty of Commerce of the Andhra University teaching their special subject Cost Accounting to the Final Year M Com. students. After that I worked in Industry.. some of them  Binny Limited of Inchcape Group, India Tobacco Group of ITG UK and then National Textile Corporation and then for about twenty years overseas.
                    In all I have a work experience of about over forty years.. all managemnt and very senior management level.. last twelve years as a Vice President of a company from where I retired and returned to India.
                     
                    I concur  with your way of thinking. I only feel the change could come if only we defeat the ruling party with a thumping majority. As otherwise the party which is filthy rich can always buy the MPs and have their way of getting the Chair.Also another important.. thing is we must have some with a strong theoretical background and a solid practical experience. This applies to every field.
                     
                    These politicians are capable of exagerating the figures to tilt the balance in their favour.Till yesterday no one talked about food items inflation.. Only when things started going from bad to worse these idiots started thinking about. When people were dying with the price inflation of food items they realised the gross mistake they were comitting int defining inflation.They were jumping with joy when the infltaion.. overall went down to almost zero level. The figures were manipulated. Now the cat is out of the bag.
                     
                    As mentioned the most important thing to be done is the control the government expenses.. I am sure you what I mean. Also some one pointed when the prices were going on sky high to releasing the food stocks from the Government Godowns as one of the many steps that could be taken.
                     
                    A person travles ten / fifteen seats lost.. flights are delayed..result you and I pay more for our basic needs. Globalisation. . it is not bad in concept,, but the implementation is more important. Other countries are taking avdantage and we are paying for the junk.. imported.. right from fruits to chinese goods rejected by U S A and dumped into India. Toys using paints with dangerous chemicals are being dumped into India. We are accepting them. Who cares what may happen to children as their pockets are filled.
                     
                    Let us hope that next elections we would be able reach the villages and get the required seats. We are peace loving people. I am telling you my prediction.. we are being cornered from all sides .. China / Pakistan and Bangladesh is dumping people in the name of refugees and our duds are head over heals to maintgain relations with china which is occupying hundreds of thousands square miles of our sacred land.. because it has no value and useless. They are building railways right up to our border.. it is with in their rights.. so many things like this.
                     
                    They have left out Anderson..and now they are trying to fix it up on some one.. same is the case with Quattrochi.It is just not an econmic bungle..but it is from all sides.
                     
                    Best wishes

                    Beta Tester Badge 3


                     


                    To: janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                    From: rkchitrapu@hotmail. com
                    Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:19:38 +0000
                    Subject: [Janshakti] Important issue in concept of economics

                     
                    Dear Chitrapu ji
                    I am still trying to find out amusing riddle to theoretical economics loopholes.The old or traditional school.Even having 35 years industrial background and management reserach and teaching I could never find out, how to find The value of natural resoucres.
                    what these economist duds do is only take mining charges as value of goods produced from mother earth.Whatveer that is.Whenever I pose this questions to economics professors they looked other way saying one man's expense is another man's income.So GDP is easily calculated by this concept.
                    They forget:
                    1.That there is intrinsic or divine value of all natural items as no item is renewable exactly.Be it iron ore or a farmers grain production.Iron ore is non renewable and farmer degrades the soil.Like we say in engineering all processes in world lead to increase in entropy of universe or degradation of energy that is permanently gone.
                    But these dud economists don't have any idea about it.
                    2.When a person produces it, his cost also includes profits which he retains with him.Now all of this does not go in expenditure like putting money in swiss banks.Hence the concept of one man's expenses is another mans income is not really workable.It needs all money always in circulation.
                    Also balck money is not counted in GDP.
                    Since we have some members with excellent background in economics and other fields, can some members please explain my query.
                    I think this distorted and brainless concept of economists has caused environment and various problems in society.No wonder economists are big failures as administrators. Economics is basicaaly is based on concpet and models which dont work on ground.
                    How we can convince world that oil taken out by Reliance and ONGC is not free.So they simply add mining licence fee and extraction and distribution expenses as if earth has unlimited reserves of all ores and primary produce.Alll primary goods producers must add a replenishment value or premium to cost.No wonder world bugged by consumerism and wrong costing of products is getting into deep troubles.
                    Can we initiate an attempt to redefine this economist concept.First thing we have to do is bid farewell to outdated economists like Man Mohan.These guys bare still trying to regulate economy by 0.5% interest rate change and CRR ratio.I can only laught in disgust.The businesses and money has grown much beyond scope of keynesian theory.
                    Moderator
                    ____________ ________
                    Dear Mr Chattertjee,
                     
                    You must have noticed in the past when the prices of crude oil were falling the oil producing countries trying to restricting the output. It is always the producer at an advantageous position.
                     
                    My point was on the exhaustion of reserves. There is no chance of recylcing these reserves. Once they are exhausted we are a gone case unless we find an alternative. You know the scare about the scarcity of water..Ironically four fifths of our globe is water.. unless we find a cheap way of making the sea water potable we will have the real problem.. may not be in our life time but later.
                     
                     
                    I was talking more about the cost of production when I sent the message. For natural reserves.. we have to take the cost on a different plane. There is no way we can determine the actual cost of the product.. in these case. How can you determine the cost ? You only know the additional cost incurred on making the raw material.. say crude oil..piped out. not the cost of the raw material.. inherent cost of it. I was talking more on that lines.
                     
                    Best wishes
                     
                    Ramakrishna
                     


                    Beta Tester Badge 3


                     

                    To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                    From: aditibarin@yahoo. com
                    Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:16:08 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                     
                    Dear Shri Ramakrishna Chitrapu,
                    If you go into the process of formation of these natural resources, you can be assured that the process is a continuous one since geological age and still now it is continuing in its own environment, waiting for our deciphering capability, which should be exercised by the most demanding countries than the producing countries.
                    Barin Chatterjee


                    From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
                    To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
                    Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:16:16 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                     

                    Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
                     
                    Best wishes

                    Beta Tester Badge 3


                     


                    To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                    CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
                    From: mdapte@gmail. com
                    Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
                    Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                     
                     
                         Dear sir,
                         Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                          With regards to all,
                          -----Mukund Apte.   

                    On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                     
                    Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
                    moderator
                    ____________ ___

                     
                    Jairaj Yadav
                    Dear Moderator

                    You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

                    Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

                    Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

                    Jairaj Yadav


                    From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
                    To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.inSent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                     
                    Dear Member

                    you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
                    Prof R K Gupta
                    ____________ ______
                    Dear Professor Gupta

                    Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

                    Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
                     
                    Jairaj Yadav


                    From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
                    To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
                    Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

                    Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
                    Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                     

                    Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

                    Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

                    Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

                    Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

                    Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

                    As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

                    The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

                    What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

                    What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


                    Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

                    Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

                    Down with him and his corrupt government!

                    Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




                      















































































































































































































































                    < BR>















































































































































































































































                    < BR>


























                    Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
                    Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
                    USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
                    UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
                    Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
                    New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
                    India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
                    UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
                    Qatar------------1.149.82------
                    Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
                    Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
                    Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
                    Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
                    Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
                    South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
                    Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
                    Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
                    Japan------------5.3246.86------
                    South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
                    Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
                    Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
                    SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
                    Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
                    Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
                    Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
                    Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
                    Poland------------9.6491.41------
                    Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
                    Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
                    Italy------------10.86101.95------
                    Denmark------------10.95102.18------
                    Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
                    Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
                    Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
                    France----4.0041.00--------------
                    Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
                    Turkey6.5463.16------------------
                    Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








                    --
                         With regards to all,
                         ------Mukund Apte



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                  • Ramakrishna Chitrapu
                    Dear Mr Sudhakakran, There is no elite group in the forum. We are all equal members. All of us have the same right to express our views on the current issues
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 4, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Mr Sudhakakran,
                       
                      There is no elite group in the forum. We are all equal members. All of us have the same right to express our views on the current issues being discussed.
                       
                      Yeah.. there are many laloos etc in every party. But he is the only person who could go beyond the dynasty and beat the dynasty. He could rule Bihar through his wife.
                       
                      We have political leader for whom the msot important thing is to fill their pocket and for that they do anything. I understand we had a C M who swiped the chappals with his Kanduva of the then P M when they became wet. That is unfortunately our culture.
                       
                      You and have elected the party, but the people who electerd them , have not given them the right to align every dirty party. In fact I strongy feel whenver there is coalition the public should have the right to veto alliance with any party other than which was declared before the elections. This would put an end to the horse trading and the dirty after effects. The political parties change their stance once the elections are over.
                       
                      We all know what is exactly happening and under whose orders the government is running.
                       
                      Just think for yourself..Was it not a direct violation the orders of S C when the funds of Quattrochi were released by the Government. Is it not a fact the CBI has become a wing of the government instead of being an independant agency.
                       
                      Now when the cat is coming out of the bag in the case Anderson.. immedaitely they find a scape goat.. Mr P V or XYZ.
                       
                      It is all individual personal animosity by one person against the person who is dead and gone.
                       
                      Till a few days ago no one ever talked of the prices of vegetables when calculating the inflation.. now when the whole country is starving these idiots wake up from their deep slumber and talk inflation in food items.
                       
                      I very strongly feel there should be some strong enactment controlling the post election alliances to put an end to the horse trading. Unfortunately we do not talk of any proposal
                      like that.. we talk of strengthening the existing laws which are not being implemented. We still have different civil laws for communities.. Family  palnning cannot be enforced on religious grounds. This is simple vote bank strategy. We put pictures of a nun on the currency and that is ok for the government.. it is secularismfor them. They put a cross on a coin it is  ok with them.
                       
                      I am straying away from the topic . I know it.
                       
                      China is at our doosteps , and even gone the extent of saying Arunachal Pradesh is part of China.  We talk of econmic policies. We criticise the Globalisation because we do not know how to make the best of it. China is simply dumping their prodcuts and toys painted with led content which is dangerous for every one especially children. U S A bans them. We permit them  and inspite of the fact China stabbed us from the back when HINDI CHINI Bhai Bhai slogan was at the peak. It has  its tentacles in srilanka , pakistan and tibet.. any time the dragon could swallow as . Absolute bankruptcy of foreign policies. Who is dictating this policy? God knows.
                       
                      Coming back to the topic of oil prices.. which depend on the prices of the crude. You can see the Petrol what they call Gas in U S A.. fluctuates every day. I know when it was less than US$ 1/ and know when it crossed 2$/ . The daily prices vary  depending on the international prices.
                       
                      See in acountry like U S A they have Car Pools.. save money and Gas. They do have four cars in a family. Publice transportation is not very good. Also there are separate lanes for cars carrying more than two/ three persons.. depending on the state you are in. Why do we do not do it. First our raods are so narrow that two cars cannot go abreast. How can we have four lane traffic or eight lane traffic?  To add to this the false and snobbish out look. We feel it is beneath our dignity if we get into the car pool. When a minister goes .. the traffic comes to a stand still. When the CM goes the whole city comes to a stand still.
                       
                      I wonder sometimes where are we heading. Why do the leaders who are elected by the publice need such security.. it is Z plus.. May be we may Hav ZZZZ plus security for these corrupt minister and leaders.
                       
                      We have to re-write the concept of economics. The present laws do not serve our purposes.
                       
                      This is waht we have to think of and talk of.. not of religion and this dirty politicians pseudo secularism. Let us move in that direction.
                       
                      BNest wishes
                       
                       
                       


                      Beta Tester Badge 3


                       

                      To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com
                      CC: rkchitrapu@...
                      From: sudhakaranck1@...
                      Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 04:39:47 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Important issue in concept of economics

                       
                      Sirs,
                      pl. pardon me for joining you elite group's discussion on the price rise, subsidy and related matters.... 
                      being a lay man I may not be competent to comment on much of the discussion.. . 
                      But the sentence quoted bellow, your single point remedy for all the ills of our society, attracted my attention
                       "I concur  with your way of thinking. I only feel the change could come if only we defeat the ruling party with a thumping majority"

                      That sentence surely declares your erudition and integrity!
                      We have not forgotten that BJP, according to its own leaders, had been auctioning their Tickets left after expropriation between the reigning leaders and their scions in last Lok-sabha election.
                      They together with Lallu, Thakreys, Karunanidhi, Sh Abdulla, Mehbooba, Mayavathi... etc... etc... dynasties would surely be better that the present dynasty... because they have nothing worry about India... it is Bihar, Maratha, Tamil, Kashmire, Utar Pradesh, Lalith, Brahmin... etc... not at all Indian... 
                      We can help them to restore our past glory of many independent dynasties ruling parts of the 'Arsh Barat' and fight against each other...
                      ...and they would help us to bring back Briton or China to unite us again.
                       
                      So what... Congress would not be allowed to rule us at any cost.
                       
                      I had been telling that 'Hypocrisy and cowardice have become our society's trait'  
                      Thank you for giving me more evidence to prove it
                       
                      C.K.Sudhakaran
                      Web: http://www.greatind iatrust.org , Mail: sudhakaranck@ gmail.com
                      Join our Yahoogroup: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/OurGreatIn dia
                      Phone: +91 9745821113, 0480 2804452, Kerala




                      From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
                      To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
                      Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 1:42:44 PM
                      Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Important issue in concept of economics

                       
                      Dear Moderator,
                       
                      Good to see yopur reply. Let me tell you something.
                       
                      I think you are junior to me.. I was on the faculty of Commerce of the Andhra University teaching their special subject Cost Accounting to the Final Year M Com. students. After that I worked in Industry.. some of them  Binny Limited of Inchcape Group, India Tobacco Group of ITG UK and then National Textile Corporation and then for about twenty years overseas.
                      In all I have a work experience of about over forty years.. all managemnt and very senior management level.. last twelve years as a Vice President of a company from where I retired and returned to India.
                       
                      I concur  with your way of thinking. I only feel the change could come if only we defeat the ruling party with a thumping majority. As otherwise the party which is filthy rich can always buy the MPs and have their way of getting the Chair.Also another important.. thing is we must have some with a strong theoretical background and a solid practical experience. This applies to every field.
                       
                      These politicians are capable of exagerating the figures to tilt the balance in their favour.Till yesterday no one talked about food items inflation.. Only when things started going from bad to worse these idiots started thinking about. When people were dying with the price inflation of food items they realised the gross mistake they were comitting int defining inflation.They were jumping with joy when the infltaion.. overall went down to almost zero level. The figures were manipulated. Now the cat is out of the bag.
                       
                      As mentioned the most important thing to be done is the control the government expenses.. I am sure you what I mean. Also some one pointed when the prices were going on sky high to releasing the food stocks from the Government Godowns as one of the many steps that could be taken.
                       
                      A person travles ten / fifteen seats lost.. flights are delayed..result you and I pay more for our basic needs. Globalisation. . it is not bad in concept,, but the implementation is more important. Other countries are taking avdantage and we are paying for the junk.. imported.. right from fruits to chinese goods rejected by U S A and dumped into India. Toys using paints with dangerous chemicals are being dumped into India. We are accepting them. Who cares what may happen to children as their pockets are filled.
                       
                      Let us hope that next elections we would be able reach the villages and get the required seats. We are peace loving people. I am telling you my prediction.. we are being cornered from all sides .. China / Pakistan and Bangladesh is dumping people in the name of refugees and our duds are head over heals to maintgain relations with china which is occupying hundreds of thousands square miles of our sacred land.. because it has no value and useless. They are building railways right up to our border.. it is with in their rights.. so many things like this.
                       
                      They have left out Anderson..and now they are trying to fix it up on some one.. same is the case with Quattrochi.It is just not an econmic bungle..but it is from all sides.
                       
                      Best wishes

                      Beta Tester Badge 3


                       

                      To: janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                      From: rkchitrapu@hotmail. com
                      Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:19:38 +0000
                      Subject: [Janshakti] Important issue in concept of economics

                       
                      Dear Chitrapu ji
                      I am still trying to find out amusing riddle to theoretical economics loopholes.The old or traditional school.Even having 35 years industrial background and management reserach and teaching I could never find out, how to find The value of natural resoucres.
                      what these economist duds do is only take mining charges as value of goods produced from mother earth.Whatveer that is.Whenever I pose this questions to economics professors they looked other way saying one man's expense is another man's income.So GDP is easily calculated by this concept.
                      They forget:
                      1.That there is intrinsic or divine value of all natural items as no item is renewable exactly.Be it iron ore or a farmers grain production.Iron ore is non renewable and farmer degrades the soil.Like we say in engineering all processes in world lead to increase in entropy of universe or degradation of energy that is permanently gone.
                      But these dud economists don't have any idea about it.
                      2.When a person produces it, his cost also includes profits which he retains with him.Now all of this does not go in expenditure like putting money in swiss banks.Hence the concept of one man's expenses is another mans income is not really workable.It needs all money always in circulation.
                      Also balck money is not counted in GDP.
                      Since we have some members with excellent background in economics and other fields, can some members please explain my query.
                      I think this distorted and brainless concept of economists has caused environment and various problems in society.No wonder economists are big failures as administrators. Economics is basicaaly is based on concpet and models which dont work on ground.
                      How we can convince world that oil taken out by Reliance and ONGC is not free.So they simply add mining licence fee and extraction and distribution expenses as if earth has unlimited reserves of all ores and primary produce.Alll primary goods producers must add a replenishment value or premium to cost.No wonder world bugged by consumerism and wrong costing of products is getting into deep troubles.
                      Can we initiate an attempt to redefine this economist concept.First thing we have to do is bid farewell to outdated economists like Man Mohan.These guys bare still trying to regulate economy by 0.5% interest rate change and CRR ratio.I can only laught in disgust.The businesses and money has grown much beyond scope of keynesian theory.
                      Moderator
                      ____________ ________
                      Dear Mr Chattertjee,
                       
                      You must have noticed in the past when the prices of crude oil were falling the oil producing countries trying to restricting the output. It is always the producer at an advantageous position.
                       
                      My point was on the exhaustion of reserves. There is no chance of recylcing these reserves. Once they are exhausted we are a gone case unless we find an alternative. You know the scare about the scarcity of water..Ironically four fifths of our globe is water.. unless we find a cheap way of making the sea water potable we will have the real problem.. may not be in our life time but later.
                       
                       
                      I was talking more about the cost of production when I sent the message. For natural reserves.. we have to take the cost on a different plane. There is no way we can determine the actual cost of the product.. in these case. How can you determine the cost ? You only know the additional cost incurred on making the raw material.. say crude oil..piped out. not the cost of the raw material.. inherent cost of it. I was talking more on that lines.
                       
                      Best wishes
                       
                      Ramakrishna
                       


                      Beta Tester Badge 3


                       

                      To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                      From: aditibarin@yahoo. com
                      Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:16:08 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                       
                      Dear Shri Ramakrishna Chitrapu,
                      If you go into the process of formation of these natural resources, you can be assured that the process is a continuous one since geological age and still now it is continuing in its own environment, waiting for our deciphering capability, which should be exercised by the most demanding countries than the producing countries.
                      Barin Chatterjee


                      From: Ramakrishna Chitrapu <rkchitrapu@hotmail. com>
                      To: India Force Yahoo Gropus <janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com>
                      Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:16:16 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                       

                      Unfortunately there is no way arriving at the cost of natural resources. It is typical supply and demand. The cost is not measurable because the natural resources cannot be replenished. Once they are used off there is nothing we can do abour it.
                       
                      Best wishes

                      Beta Tester Badge 3


                       


                      To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com
                      CC: cityju@rediffmail. com; yadavjr@yahoo. com; coldewan@gmail. com
                      From: mdapte@gmail. com
                      Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:03:22 +0530
                      Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                       
                       
                           Dear sir,
                           Kindly note that in any (industrial) process the cost of humn contributionin monetary value cannot be decided. Human contribution is a चैतन्य whereas MONEY is a जड़. Normally in oil industry (similar to other type as well) the cost of human contributionis determined ARBITRARILY and adding cost of transportation plus frofits (at various levels) selling price is decided.Since any profit that they make is taken by Government (since they are Public Sector Industry), there is already collection of Government. So really aspect of any subsidy does not arise. In addition Government/s do charge tax to the consumers where question of subsidy comes at all?
                            With regards to all,
                            -----Mukund Apte.   

                      On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Jairaj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                       
                      Please read my another mail posted a while ago about how not a single oil and gas company in India making any losses.They were making huge profits as evident from PE ratios as on 31st March.You have not clarified what is the petrol/gasolene price in USA? How come they sell it at about half price of India? What are tax components in Indian petroleum products over all? Why not to subsidise as subsidies go to poorer sections.Petrol is not consumed like Whisky.It goes in farms, in cooking stoves of every one, in mopeds and in engines.It is energy and should be at as low cost as possible.Every one benefits by such subsidies not only poor.Even those who pay taxes.I dont know what kind of funny logic you are giving same like these evil politicians who lie every time and are eating into vitals of Indian society.You should give pointed reply to my objections and queries and not vague remarks.We must reach some conclusions. We want to know what is cost of production of local crude oil, by ONGC,OIL ,Cairn and Reliance.What is landed cost without duties of crude and what is production and marketing costs. All these figures without taxes first.India can easily sell petrol at Rs 35 and Diesl at Rs 25 easily .I can't comment on LPG cylinders as I dont have much idea about its cost components.Can anyone help?
                      moderator
                      ____________ ___

                       
                      Jairaj Yadav
                      Dear Moderator

                      You are quoting incorrect thing. In USA rate for Petroleum product is decided by Petroleum companies and price changes based on global crude oil price and not government. Different companies will have their own prices (varying a little bit) depending on statetax , distribution cost (the location  of state from shore / crude point).

                      Still justification had not been given by moderator why tax payers should pay to subsidize the petroleum users .

                      Why should Indian suffer from mentality that some one else must pay to subsidise their cost ? 

                      Jairaj Yadav


                      From: Jai Raj Yadav <yadavjr@yahoo. com>
                      To: Janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.inSent: Sun, June 27, 2010 9:28:29 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                       
                      Dear Member

                      you are talking like a layman.Petroleum is used by every individual.He uses bus and all commodities come by trucks only.Though impact of price hike was not even 10 paisa per km of freight roadways and truck operators have raised fares already from 6 to 10%.Autos are already up by 30%.See the amount of benefit and money congress might have charged for doing this. It will have serious impact on further rise in prices of commodities, atleast 5% in my estimates.It is criminal act. How USA is selling it at Rs 30 per liter?What happens to 60% intermal production of crude india does? what is its cost? What happened to 1 lac crores collected by telecom licenses? Where all this moiney is going?And finally dont foirget rich become rich only by robbing the poor.There is no money fountain in earth.Please come out of illussions,slogans and text book economics of no use.
                      Prof R K Gupta
                      ____________ ______
                      Dear Professor Gupta

                      Who should the tax payers pay to subsidise the users of Petroleum Products ?

                      Why not the actual users pay the actual market price of petroleum products (Petrol, Diesel etc) ?
                       
                      Jairaj Yadav


                      From: Prof R K Gupta-India <cityju@rediffmail. com>
                      To: Dil-Maange-More@ yahoogroups. com; TheCybugle@yahoogro ups.com; aryayouthgroup@ yahoogroups. com; branded_indian@ yahoogroups. com; desifellows@ yahoogroups. com; desispice@yahoogrou ps.com; future-of-india@ yahoogroups. com; have-a-heart@ yahoogroups. com; indianjustice@ yahoogroups. com; indiathinkersnet@ yahoogroups. com; insidejodhpur@ yahoogroups. com; issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com; janshakti@yahoogrou ps.com; jodhpur_guys_ gals@yahoogroups .com; jodhpurclub@ yahoogroups. com; loksatta_initiative @yahoogroups. com; maitri@yahoogroups. co.in; managing-today@ yahoogroups. com; powerupindiagroup@ yahoogroups. com; rkgupta-alumni@ yahoogroups. com; saksham@yahoogroups .com; teachers-guild@ yahoogroups. com; voiceofindiagroup@ yahoogroups. co.in
                      Cc: editor@hindustantim es.com; editor@hindu. com; editor@indianexpres s.com

                      Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:07:10 AM
                      Subject: [Janshakti] Roll back Petrol price hike immediately

                       

                      Today the corrupt ,arrogant and unaccountable  government of Man Mohan and Sonia tried to fool nation by releasing advertisements in news papers giving table of petrol prices in neighboring countries.These corrupt and brainless politicians think they are just over smart.

                      Man Mohan should feel some shame at least.This person is  not only dishonest but cunning and a fraudulent expert carrying worthless paper degrees of universities. Shamelessly he hangs on in PMO and keeps doing wrong to Indian masses with unseen kind of temerity and arrogance.I guess time has come to try him publicly.This price rise has already resulted in 10% hike in transport charges as announced by various unions that will ultimately lead to 5% rise in commodity prices.Autos and taxis have already hiked fares by 30%.Though impact of this price rise is only a few paisa per kms.It looks like congress might have  taken huge amount of bribe money from these associations.

                      Below are the July 2009 prices in various good countries including USA of whose Man Mohan is a Deewana.

                      Not only this, the per capita incomes of these countries is much higher than that of India ,atleast 3 times.

                      Further India is now producing its own 60% petroleum which is viurtually free of cost.

                      As we have been observing in past Man Mohan and his cabinet guys are corrupt and stooges of western capitalists and their sole aim is to screw up this country and allow loot and plunder by capitalists from outside India and within.

                      The crude oil is hovering in range 70 to 78$ per barrel and in this range there is no justification in raising prices at the moment when inflation is so huge.

                      What this corrupt government is doing with the extra 1 lac crores they have just collected from telecom sector?

                      What subsidy and deficit they are talking about? They are living in luxury and call it deficit.


                      Does Pranab Mukherjee think he is just too over smart ? and in india fools live?

                      Time has come to throw out this corrupt government now.People should refuse to pay hiked rates and stop paying taxes also.Enough is enough.Man Mohan must go now. He is bleeding the country since he has taken over. It is already 8 years of anarchy in india. Shame on him!

                      Down with him and his corrupt government!

                      Petrol Prices across the World (July 2009) This table as an example will show up fradulent intents of GOI.




                        















































































































































































































































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                      Country$ per Gal. 2005Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2006Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2007Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2008Rs/ ltr$ per Gal. 2009Rs/ ltr% Deviation from India, 2009
                      Saudi Arabia------------0.504.75------
                      USA2.5824.662.4624.543.0927.721.6917.571.5816.92-65%
                      UAE1.2912.351.8318.49----1.7015.951.7418.40-62%
                      Bulgaria  ------------2.7329.88-38%
                      New Zealand4.9147.374.8649.37----5.6461.883.5940.37-16%
                      India4.6347.164.9250.205.6850.645.7750.654.5948.24 
                      UK2.2721.93--------10.4198.125.7360.8126%
                      Qatar------------1.149.82------
                      Malaysia0.565.36--------2.7330.12------
                      Australia4.3641.914.7347.72----3.0031.99------
                      Canada4.2340.634.4544.244.6845.593.0931.42------
                      Bahrain------------3.3231.16------
                      Pakistan3.7335.994.3643.753.9138.073.8236.09------
                      South Korea  --------4.3646.38------
                      Lebanon------------4.6043.52------
                      Czech Republic------------5.2746.34------
                      Japan------------5.3246.86------
                      South Africa3.6434.774.2743.134.4139.485.4152.10------
                      Barcelona, Spain  --------5.5959.17------
                      Kathmandu, Nepal------------5.7349.87------
                      SriLanka----4.3644.51-- 6.7763.96------
                      Switzerland------------7.5266.09------
                      Sweden----5.9660.55----8.1376.29------
                      Singapore3.2330.91--------8.2377.70------
                      Finland----5.0552.16----9.4591.87------
                      Poland------------9.6491.41------
                      Germany----4.9549.53----9.6894.08------
                      Holland5.8355.88--------10.45101.59------
                      Italy------------10.86101.95------
                      Denmark------------10.95102.18------
                      Vietnam----  2.8626.78----------
                      Nairobi, Kenya--------5.0044.64----------
                      Brazil----3.4834.23--------------
                      France----4.0041.00--------------
                      Scotland----7.7775.64--------------
                      Turkey6.5463.16------------------
                      Thailand----3.0925.55--------------








                      --
                           With regards to all,
                           ------Mukund Apte



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