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India is heading for disaster?

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  • Prof R K Gupta-India
    India has liberalised the expenditure side only without creating jobs and raising income side of citizens.It has also failed to increase supply og
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 1, 2008
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      India has liberalised the expenditure side only without creating jobs and raising income side of citizens.It has also failed to increase supply of land,commodities and manufactured goods. On top of it stupid government guys have jacked up taxes to put burdern on economy. Just 5% populations of traders, politicians, business houses and babus are out on looting spree.
      Can Government of India explain what has happened suddenly so that prices have gone up 5-6 times in last decade in almost every thing? And why they have been silently watching and did not do anything.

      Is it rapid devaluation of rupee or was it artificially kept high in past, like Russians did.Are we going the Russia and Brazil way? And if it is so,how the rupee is appreciating externally. It means there is severe mismatch in Indian economy. Is not it absurd and serious matter that rupee is going up externally and going down internally.Can't be explained by any law of finance or economics except for breakdown of regulations and foolish developmental policies.

      An illusion is being created in country in conspiracy against India in connivance with internal and external agents. On one side huge pay packets are given to few freshers to create impression and euphoria that economy is booming and salaries are rising, whereas for majority of population actually wages have hardly gone up beyond the normal rates of increase in last decade. This has impoverished both rural and urban citizens. Stock markets got heated up in a serious conspiracy and connivance of authorities in india and the public money of MFs and private citizens were inducted and then markets  crashed. The money has been siphoned off by both corrupt Indian Investors and FIIs.

      The babudom in country has now become openly shameless,arrogant and corrupt but their pay packets are being raised in serious conspiracy to loot and support only babus at cost of their master. This will divert talent from farm sector and rural sector to government and urban employment areas killing the already frail agricultural sector of India seriously jeopardising food security and life of common man.To supplement this the unattractive farming is being worsened by  reckless conversion of fertile land into profit and greed based sham commercial projects and SEZs.It means on all sides agriculturists and farmers are being attcked to finish this sector.

      With the recent drama of price reduction meetings, GOI is trying to fool people. Uncontrolled loot and euphoria is going on. Indian government and babus should stop trying to fool people and try to run the economy through tariff and tax control. These measures are mere palliative for short term in some transient imbalances in economy. But Indian loot and price rise is now institutionalized phenomenon since last one decade, and since last 6 years more intensively.

      The trend has to be reversed starting with freeze on raise in salaries of corrupt and unproductive surplus babudom. They are main cause of problems faced by Indians. Fundamental policies have to be changed to control money supply, concentration of wealth, absurd salaries and stopping low interest rates which are lower than even real retail level inflation rate. India must stop running too fast and aim at controlled liberalisation with 5-6% growth rate and at least 3.5% growth rate in agriculture.
      The average price rise of almost 30% per year is didgusting and shameful for Manmohan Singh government and it should bow out.But why would they do that?Beacsue they are puppets of loot lobby and know about this all.
      Indian public should  kick out fraudulent economists and experts and take the administration in their hand

      Our target should be to reverse commodity prices to 60% of current prices, halving the property prices, to create justice on demand (for which nothing has been done in successive budgets except lip service), house on demand and minimum available health care in all rural areas and specialities care in all Town having population more than 5 lacs.
      The VIth Pay commission should be thrown in dust bin.

      This itself will need drastic changes and reforms and strong and honest willpower in government.

      It is surprising that BJP ( A trader's party) is silent over rising property prices, commodity prices and the hike in fees by IIMs etc recently to skewed and distorted levels without any justification.
      It has exposed the fact that BJP is as corrupt and irresponsible party as congress and may be more corrupt as evident in Rajsthan atleast( where government babus,polciemen, judciary and polticians are shamlessly spreadinf naked corruption and loot showing compete unaccountability,special police.It is time to kick Vasundhera and her team out immediately.

      The babus now have become naked and completely bold, neglecting public complaints, extorting bribes and misusing public money and property. 'Tandav Nritya' is going on where every body is busy looting with corrupt seniors looking other way and doing the same. It is time Senior IAS,IPS,IRS and all kinds of such civil servants are taken to task by public.They won't listen to logic and pleas anymore being emboldened and having tasted the unrestrained flow of blood.

      The judiciary has already surrendered after 10 years of activism and is now working hand in gloves with corrupt politicians and babudom and their silence on loot and corruption going on in country and their completely ignoring slow and shameless pace of justice,is deafening.

      The foreign holdings of Indians has reached all time high in Swiss and other bank accounts  as wealth is being plundered away and taken out from India. Truly scoundrels have now fully taken over the country and all the greedy and bad elements are colluding with each other to go on loot spree under illusions of liberalisation and globalisation (US led consipracy terms). What these third rate guys in India deserve? People should decide.

      Prof R K Gupta
      www.indiaforce.org



      ICL
    • ask34amin@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/1/2008 3:54:27 AM Central Standard Time, ... Dear Prof Guptaji Ladies and Gentleman in this forum and within India Inc.: Ever since I
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 1, 2008
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        In a message dated 4/1/2008 3:54:27 AM Central Standard Time, cityju@... writes:

        India has liberalised the expenditure side only without creating jobs and raising income side of citizens.It has also failed to increase supply of land,commodities and manufactured goods. On top of it stupid government guys have jacked up taxes to put burdern on economy. Just 5% populations of traders, politicians, business houses and babus are out on looting spree.


        Dear Prof Guptaji Ladies and Gentleman in this forum and within India Inc.:

        Ever since I joined you group in March o6, I have pointed our that we are traveling on a dangerous road, and even presented our Moral India Mission as a means to remove Mafia Congress as well as Mafia BJP.  These polity were disloyal to our nation and India Inc. too.  They have committed acts that falls under treason, yet for all these years no one came forward to lead the nation and morally remove all corruption you have pointed out. 

        Well, I am ready TO BRING BACK OUR FREEDOM AND RIGHTS, are you and our members and India Inc. ready to back me up with moral support and remove Mafia in the next elections for Parliament.  Unless and until India Inc. departs from the company of murderers, rapists, we all fall under the category under our laws that says if one supports criminals, then we too are criminals too.

        So, the next election is a chance to grab and with determination our forefathers had to free India, we follow their path.  We do not have to go on the streets to oppose Mafia.  We can stay in our homrd and use the powerful weapon each Indian hands in her or his hands and vote then out of office.  Like our freedom came without violence, this time too, we can free our nation without bloodshed and with peaceful means.  Let's clean out our Parliament where foul smell of blood and rapes and make it once more a holy place that will guard our nation with moral values to achieve our aspirations and dreams.

        It has been my dream to free my beloved India from Mafia since the genocide of 1984.

        Join me, please let's join hands to purify our politics, religion, way of life, purify our education system and save our billion plus hungry relatives from Mafia's poverty, hunger jail.

        If you believe in our JAY HIND, THEN SHOW YOUR LOYALTY TO MOTHER INDIA AND CUT YOUR LINKS WITH evil MAFIA FOR EVER.  Now time has come for every Indian within our nation and abroad, to ask a question, looking into the mirror and ask the question, what we can do for Mother India from the hands of the morons, in whose jaws we are trapped.

        Jay hind,

        Arvind Amin.
        Your obedient servant of India,
        without salary.
        ask34amin@...





        **************
        Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
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      • Laxminarayan Kamath
        Dear Kamath Corruption is no more bribery and mutual benfit.it is now reached naked diaply and extortion of citizens even if they dont ant to pay or have
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 1, 2008
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          Dear Kamath
          Corruption is no more bribery and mutual benfit.it is now reached naked diaply and extortion of citizens even if they dont ant to pay or have nothing to hide.IT is crminal act.The corrupt and rotten bureacratsd,judges and polticians turn blidn eye to each other as every one is shamlessly busy looting ,money from citizens , of government property and ven by thefot of public property.There is comptition of corruption.Things have now become naked.No one is fearful of anyone amnd babus have become bold becaue no action is take.Polcire tops the list followed by army and judciary.You will be shocked but this is truth.What people like us can do whren we ourselves differ with each other.WE are living in fools paradise and false hope that things will improve.The current liberalsiation frud ios to loot and plunder citizens wealth on behest of captalist masters.
          The most corrupt is Ciongres followed by BJP.WE have to purge these parties now or finish them.They are full of scoundresl.Dont blame inniocent citizens.no one wants to bribe.It is very few who break law.majority of us are good but still we are robbed every day.
          Prof R K Gupta
          ------------------------------------------------------------------

          I am no expert in these subjects .. So don't call on details if you
          want to explain me something .. My question is whether removing
          Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?

          Currently corruption follows power. And a large part also follows
          "power potential". If power shifts from BJP to Congress or from
          Congress to BJP or any other party/ organization/ whatever, corruption
          follows suite. Some corruption stays back if there is "power
          potential" still remaining in the party. If there is another
          party/organization which a part of corruption sees that it has "power
          potential", it will move to that if circumstances affecting the
          corruption's victim compulse it.

          Where does this corruption come from? Citizens. Can you remove
          corruption from citizens without corruption drive it's forces against
          your plans? The corruption in Government( with a few lakh employees?)
          does not have a chance against clean citizens (100 crore!!!). Can you
          turn this growing population "problem" into a strength against
          corruption (not just in the Government), thus being it's own
          solution?.

          The world is shrinking by the minute in terms of communication and
          technology. So corruption can make it's way through those channels.
          Can you make people immune to such channels of corruption? Can you
          come up with an elaborate plan to block only corruption from various
          channels of information exchange and then implement flawlessly all the
          plans in one go? If you have a delay between to parts of plans,
          corruption can slip through.

          I am really sorry that I am not good at expressing everything I feel,
          especially thoughts sift too quickly through my mind for me to
          construct examples required to convey my ideas. May be that is where
          my corruption point lies.

          Can you do all the above in one go ? Then we may have a chance against
          corruption.

          --
          Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
          http://lankerisms.blogspot.com
          (+91) 9945036093
        • Victor Cooper
          India is not just heading for disaster, IT IS A DISASTER already. Actually the entire region from Bangladesh to India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Kuwait,
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 1, 2008
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            India is not just heading for disaster, IT IS A DISASTER already.  Actually the entire region from Bangladesh to India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria (this near East thing) is a disaster zone.  The genes are the same, the architure, non-responsive governments, roads, water, illeteracy, etc. are same-similar.  My theory is that the region is going to witness a conflagration much greater than WW II, and the conflict will be India-Pakistan-Bangaladesh with China moving in to nibble the northen territories.  Nothing can stop it now, it is just a matter of time, except the immediate "re-enslavement" of India by the whites or yellows to impart some discipline and values.


            Laxminarayan Kamath <kamathln@...> wrote:
            Dear Kamath
            Corruption is no more bribery and mutual benfit.it is now reached naked diaply and extortion of citizens even if they dont ant to pay or have nothing to hide.IT is crminal act.The corrupt and rotten bureacratsd, judges and polticians turn blidn eye to each other as every one is shamlessly busy looting ,money from citizens , of government property and ven by thefot of public property.There is comptition of corruption.Things have now become naked.No one is fearful of anyone amnd babus have become bold becaue no action is take.Polcire tops the list followed by army and judciary.You will be shocked but this is truth.What people like us can do whren we ourselves differ with each other.WE are living in fools paradise and false hope that things will improve.The current liberalsiation frud ios to loot and plunder citizens wealth on behest of captalist masters.
            The most corrupt is Ciongres followed by BJP.WE have to purge these parties now or finish them.They are full of scoundresl.Dont blame inniocent citizens.no one wants to bribe.It is very few who break law.majority of us are good but still we are robbed every day.
            Prof R K Gupta
            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

            I am no expert in these subjects .. So don't call on details if you
            want to explain me something .. My question is whether removing
            Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?

            Currently corruption follows power. And a large part also follows
            "power potential". If power shifts from BJP to Congress or from
            Congress to BJP or any other party/ organization/ whatever, corruption
            follows suite. Some corruption stays back if there is "power
            potential" still remaining in the party. If there is another
            party/organization which a part of corruption sees that it has "power
            potential", it will move to that if circumstances affecting the
            corruption's victim compulse it.

            Where does this corruption come from? Citizens. Can you remove
            corruption from citizens without corruption drive it's forces against
            your plans? The corruption in Government( with a few lakh employees?)
            does not have a chance against clean citizens (100 crore!!!). Can you
            turn this growing population "problem" into a strength against
            corruption (not just in the Government), thus being it's own
            solution?.

            The world is shrinking by the minute in terms of communication and
            technology. So corruption can make it's way through those channels.
            Can you make people immune to such channels of corruption? Can you
            come up with an elaborate plan to block only corruption from various
            channels of information exchange and then implement flawlessly all the
            plans in one go? If you have a delay between to parts of plans,
            corruption can slip through.

            I am really sorry that I am not good at expressing everything I feel,
            especially thoughts sift too quickly through my mind for me to
            construct examples required to convey my ideas. May be that is where
            my corruption point lies.

            Can you do all the above in one go ? Then we may have a chance against
            corruption.

            --
            Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
            http://lankerisms. blogspot. com
            (+91) 9945036093


            You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

          • Balbir Sooch
            Updated on April 1, 2008 A SUBMISSION AS A CRY FOR JUSTICE ATTENTION PLEASE: ENVIRONMENT AND OTHER ISSUES ON WEBSITE: www.sikhvicharmanch.com Respected Sir,
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 1, 2008
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              Updated on April 1, 2008

              A SUBMISSION AS A CRY FOR JUSTICE

              ATTENTION PLEASE: ENVIRONMENT AND OTHER ISSUES ON WEBSITE: www.sikhvicharmanch.com

              Respected Sir,

              For your kind attention and further necessary adequate and meaningful remedial action, the submission after receiving more information in this regard:  

              http://www.sikhvicharmanch.com/General-The%20first%20World%20Punjabi%20Conference%20conducted.htm

              http://www.sikhvicharmanch.com/Cry%20for%20justice-LUDHIANA-City%20master%20plan.htm

              The first World Punjabi Conference conducted by Panjab University

               Ordinance on compulsory use of Punjabi soon, says Badal
              http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Ordinance-on-compulsory-use-of-Punjabi-soon-says-Badal/290255/

              ‘Let us fight for clean and green environment’
              LUDHIANA-City master plan

              Ludhiana city clean and green must be motto for human peaceful and comfortable living forever as per Article 21 of the Indian Constitution

              Residents upset over colonies’ mixed land use status

              World cities gift an hour to Earth

              http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14633372

               Posted by Balbir S. Sooch on Mar 30, 2008 23:19 PM

              From the list of principles laid down by United Nations Conference on Human Environment, it has been rightly said that the man with human sense knows and has natural and the man-made aspects of environment on earth are essential to his well-being and to the enjoyment of basic human rights the right to life itself on earth. In the context it is made further clear that Man has the fundamental right to freedom, equality and adequate conditions of life, in an environment of a quality that permits a life of dignity and well-being, and he bears a solemn responsibility to protect and improve the environment for present and future generations. In view of the above, the natural resources of the earth, including the air, water, land, flora and fauna and especially representative samples of natural ecosystems, must be safeguarded for the benefit of present and future generations through careful planning or management, as appropriate. In spite of all the laid down principles, the thousands of industries have been allowed unchecked to flourish in purely residential areas at the instance of and by lawlessness people having different faces due to their own greed and personal reasons. All most all the industries so allowed are hazardous and polluting in nature and caused severe health hazards to the general public of the area and Earth. But in the case of Ludhiana City master plan all bye-laws are being abandoned only for political reasons and resolutions being passed to allow polluting the environment of very thickly populated residential colonies despite the objections. Despite preventive judgments, the violation stated is only a tip of ice berg of the environmental unbearable and actionable pollution in India. Noise not only spoils the physical health but also adversely affects the mental and psychological attitude of humans. The State must to ensure that activities within their jurisdiction do not cause damage to the environment on Earth.

              Balbir Singh Sooch, Advocate, Ludhiana and other residents
              # 12333/1, Street No. 12, Vishvakarma Colony,
              Behind Sangeet Cinema,
              Ludhiana-141003, Punjab, (INDIA)
              April 2, 2008
              Mobile: 98143-34544; Phone: 0161-2531029

              http://www.sikhvicharmanch.com/Cry%20for%20justice-LUDHIANA-City%20master%20plan.htm

               



              To: India-Force@yahoogroups.com
              From: kamathln@...
              Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:36:44 +0530
              Subject: Re: [India-Force] India is heading for disaster?

              Dear Kamath
              Corruption is no more bribery and mutual benfit.it is now reached naked diaply and extortion of citizens even if they dont ant to pay or have nothing to hide.IT is crminal act.The corrupt and rotten bureacratsd, judges and polticians turn blidn eye to each other as every one is shamlessly busy looting ,money from citizens , of government property and ven by thefot of public property.There is comptition of corruption.Things have now become naked.No one is fearful of anyone amnd babus have become bold becaue no action is take.Polcire tops the list followed by army and judciary.You will be shocked but this is truth.What people like us can do whren we ourselves differ with each other.WE are living in fools paradise and false hope that things will improve.The current liberalsiation frud ios to loot and plunder citizens wealth on behest of captalist masters.
              The most corrupt is Ciongres followed by BJP.WE have to purge these parties now or finish them.They are full of scoundresl.Dont blame inniocent citizens.no one wants to bribe.It is very few who break law.majority of us are good but still we are robbed every day.
              Prof R K Gupta
              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

              I am no expert in these subjects .. So don't call on details if you
              want to explain me something .. My question is whether removing
              Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?

              Currently corruption follows power. And a large part also follows
              "power potential". If power shifts from BJP to Congress or from
              Congress to BJP or any other party/ organization/ whatever, corruption
              follows suite. Some corruption stays back if there is "power
              potential" still remaining in the party. If there is another
              party/organization which a part of corruption sees that it has "power
              potential", it will move to that if circumstances affecting the
              corruption's victim compulse it.

              Where does this corruption come from? Citizens. Can you remove
              corruption from citizens without corruption drive it's forces against
              your plans? The corruption in Government( with a few lakh employees?)
              does not have a chance against clean citizens (100 crore!!!). Can you
              turn this growing population "problem" into a strength against
              corruption (not just in the Government), thus being it's own
              solution?.

              The world is shrinking by the minute in terms of communication and
              technology. So corruption can make it's way through those channels.
              Can you make people immune to such channels of corruption? Can you
              come up with an elaborate plan to block only corruption from various
              channels of information exchange and then implement flawlessly all the
              plans in one go? If you have a delay between to parts of plans,
              corruption can slip through.

              I am really sorry that I am not good at expressing everything I feel,
              especially thoughts sift too quickly through my mind for me to
              construct examples required to convey my ideas. May be that is where
              my corruption point lies.

              Can you do all the above in one go ? Then we may have a chance against
              corruption.

              --
              Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
              http://lankerisms. blogspot. com
              (+91) 9945036093



              Windows Live Spaces : Help your online world come to life, add 500 photos a month. Try it!
            • ~Ashok
              someone commented and asked Prof Gupta: My question is whether removing Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ? yes sure to some
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008
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                someone commented and asked Prof Gupta:
                 
                My question is whether removing
                Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?
                 
                yes sure to some extent. This is not a permanent solution but would work miracles and help root out the problem once and for all time in
                near future. Getting rid of these two Moster parties has become critical
                in these times.
                 
                Ashok

                 
                 


                Reach out and touch someone with your Love & Gratitude..
                                                                                                                  ~Ashok


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              • surender syal
                Sir, Almost all national projects prove that Indian govt researchers are incompetent,fake and frauds.Then ,why govt does not contract internationals and kick
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 4, 2008
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                  Sir,
                       Almost all national projects prove that Indian govt researchers are incompetent,fake and frauds.Then ,why govt does not contract internationals and kick frauds?
                     Nobody can deny that in India wrong persons are sitting at the helm of political affairs and professional decisions.The research funds are merely a way to distribute money among unqualifieds and incompetents.Can you,please, start a movement to bring a change now through contacting PM/PRESIDENT/MINISTERS ON internet.
                  Regards,
                  sayal123

                  Laxminarayan Kamath <kamathln@...> wrote:
                  Dear Kamath
                  Corruption is no more bribery and mutual benfit.it is now reached naked diaply and extortion of citizens even if they dont ant to pay or have nothing to hide.IT is crminal act.The corrupt and rotten bureacratsd, judges and polticians turn blidn eye to each other as every one is shamlessly busy looting ,money from citizens , of government property and ven by thefot of public property.There is comptition of corruption.Things have now become naked.No one is fearful of anyone amnd babus have become bold becaue no action is take.Polcire tops the list followed by army and judciary.You will be shocked but this is truth.What people like us can do whren we ourselves differ with each other.WE are living in fools paradise and false hope that things will improve.The current liberalsiation frud ios to loot and plunder citizens wealth on behest of captalist masters.
                  The most corrupt is Ciongres followed by BJP.WE have to purge these parties now or finish them.They are full of scoundresl.Dont blame inniocent citizens.no one wants to bribe.It is very few who break law.majority of us are good but still we are robbed every day.
                  Prof R K Gupta
                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                  I am no expert in these subjects .. So don't call on details if you
                  want to explain me something .. My question is whether removing
                  Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?

                  Currently corruption follows power. And a large part also follows
                  "power potential". If power shifts from BJP to Congress or from
                  Congress to BJP or any other party/ organization/ whatever, corruption
                  follows suite. Some corruption stays back if there is "power
                  potential" still remaining in the party. If there is another
                  party/organization which a part of corruption sees that it has "power
                  potential", it will move to that if circumstances affecting the
                  corruption's victim compulse it.

                  Where does this corruption come from? Citizens. Can you remove
                  corruption from citizens without corruption drive it's forces against
                  your plans? The corruption in Government( with a few lakh employees?)
                  does not have a chance against clean citizens (100 crore!!!). Can you
                  turn this growing population "problem" into a strength against
                  corruption (not just in the Government), thus being it's own
                  solution?.

                  The world is shrinking by the minute in terms of communication and
                  technology. So corruption can make it's way through those channels.
                  Can you make people immune to such channels of corruption? Can you
                  come up with an elaborate plan to block only corruption from various
                  channels of information exchange and then implement flawlessly all the
                  plans in one go? If you have a delay between to parts of plans,
                  corruption can slip through.

                  I am really sorry that I am not good at expressing everything I feel,
                  especially thoughts sift too quickly through my mind for me to
                  construct examples required to convey my ideas. May be that is where
                  my corruption point lies.

                  Can you do all the above in one go ? Then we may have a chance against
                  corruption.

                  --
                  Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
                  http://lankerisms. blogspot. com
                  (+91) 9945036093


                  Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it.

                • Sanjay Jadhav
                  Dear Ashok ji, I do not think removing congress or BJP will help in addressing the problem/s in isolation or in totality. It appears to me Government in India
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 6, 2008
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                    Dear Ashok ji,
                     
                    I do not think removing congress or BJP will help in addressing the problem/s in isolation or in totality.
                     
                    It appears to me Government in India has evolved from Ramrajya to present state by many innovations and helplessnes and compromises to its present state. The changes had been response to
                     
                    (1) concept of co-existence of multiple rules till 1365. This time is marked by illiteracy, poor communication and poor public works. Tax maximization was not the goal of state. The relationship of ruler with subjects was kind of guardianship. The period was marked by Live and Let live.
                     
                    (2) Then came period of invasion of Islaimic rulers with different ethos (no sanctity for multiple rules). The period lasted till 1757. This period was marked by increase of intra-state trade and aggregation of rule. Th public work and communication improved, but literacy was still low. There was little technology improvement.
                     
                    (3) Third period was marked by increasing British rule till independence of India in 1947. The period should be understood as political rule for obtaining favourable trade terms with local rulers and economy. The imprived literacy & technology deployment (which existed in west) only tool to facilitate international trade of Indian commodities. Industrialization in India was marginal. The period is marked by improved literacy (although unsatisfactory), improved communication and public works.
                     
                    (4) forth period was Indian independence 1947 to date has seen improvement in literacy, industrialization, communication and public works. The period also concides with rapid increase in tax collection aided by economic development and as need to support industrialization, communication and public works. 
                     
                    Within limited context of question raised by you, I can add that with different level of technology, scale of economy, deeper penetration of products and services in society, market is better suited to handle many additional matters, which were itherto reserved for government. This is also consistent with modern understanding of strategic management and organization science. In that sense
                     
                    Now formerly in time of poor and expensive communication could not exist. But today they are formidable force for their capability of mass customization, ability to based pricing, relativly better structural independence.
                     
                    Market is another mechanism which will have to assume larger role. market is better placed for accomodating rising population and environment, adaptability with environment changes.
                     
                    The suggested solutions provide better lifestyle to marginal crosssection, but  does not guarantee the fairness, lack of exploitation. Societies would have to make choices in this directions. Governments should better act as arbitrator of societal choices than ownership of the nations.
                     
                    Sanjay Jadhav
                     

                    Re: India is heading for disaster?

                    Posted by: "~Ashok" lama1126in@...   lama1126in

                    Fri Apr 4, 2008 10:05 am (PDT)

                    someone commented and asked Prof Gupta:

                    My question is whether removing
                    Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?

                    yes sure to some extent. This is not a permanent solution but would work miracles and help root out the problem once and for all time in
                    near future. Getting rid of these two Moster parties has become critical
                    in these times.

                    Ashok
                     
                     
                  • Panna Lal Nawalkha
                    CLEANSING CONGRESS AND BJP IS THE NEED OF HOUR. DR.P.L.NAWALKHA ... From: Sanjay Jadhav To: India-Force@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 7, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      CLEANSING CONGRESS AND BJP IS THE NEED OF HOUR.
                       
                      DR.P.L.NAWALKHA


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Sanjay Jadhav <sanjayjadhav1999@...>
                      To: India-Force@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, 6 April, 2008 9:47:16 PM
                      Subject: [India-Force] Re: India is heading for disaster?

                      Dear Ashok ji,
                       
                      I do not think removing congress or BJP will help in addressing the problem/s in isolation or in totality.
                       
                      It appears to me Government in India has evolved from Ramrajya to present state by many innovations and helplessnes and compromises to its present state. The changes had been response to
                       
                      (1) concept of co-existence of multiple rules till 1365. This time is marked by illiteracy, poor communication and poor public works. Tax maximization was not the goal of state. The relationship of ruler with subjects was kind of guardianship. The period was marked by Live and Let live.
                       
                      (2) Then came period of invasion of Islaimic rulers with different ethos (no sanctity for multiple rules). The period lasted till 1757. This period was marked by increase of intra-state trade and aggregation of rule. Th public work and communication improved, but literacy was still low. There was little technology improvement.
                       
                      (3) Third period was marked by increasing British rule till independence of India in 1947. The period should be understood as political rule for obtaining favourable trade terms with local rulers and economy. The imprived literacy & technology deployment (which existed in west) only tool to facilitate international trade of Indian commodities. Industrialization in India was marginal. The period is marked by improved literacy (although unsatisfactory) , improved communication and public works.
                       
                      (4) forth period was Indian independence 1947 to date has seen improvement in literacy, industrialization, communication and public works. The period also concides with rapid increase in tax collection aided by economic development and as need to support industrialization, communication and public works. 
                       
                      Within limited context of question raised by you, I can add that with different level of technology, scale of economy, deeper penetration of products and services in society, market is better suited to handle many additional matters, which were itherto reserved for government. This is also consistent with modern understanding of strategic management and organization science. In that sense
                       
                      Now formerly in time of poor and expensive communication could not exist. But today they are formidable force for their capability of mass customization, ability to based pricing, relativly better structural independence.
                       
                      Market is another mechanism which will have to assume larger role. market is better placed for accomodating rising population and environment, adaptability with environment changes.
                       
                      The suggested solutions provide better lifestyle to marginal crosssection, but  does not guarantee the fairness, lack of exploitation. Societies would have to make choices in this directions. Governments should better act as arbitrator of societal choices than ownership of the nations.
                       
                      Sanjay Jadhav
                       

                      Re: India is heading for disaster?

                      Posted by: "~Ashok" lama1126in@yahoo. co.in   lama1126in

                      Fri Apr 4, 2008 10:05 am (PDT)

                      someone commented and asked Prof Gupta:

                      My question is whether removing
                      Congress and BJP will really remove the roots of the problems ?

                      yes sure to some extent. This is not a permanent solution but would work miracles and help root out the problem once and for all time in
                      near future. Getting rid of these two Moster parties has become critical
                      in these times.

                      Ashok
                       
                       



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                    • Sanjay Jadhav
                      The better solution will be roll back government to their own role in society i.e. internal and external security, representation of the nation with outside
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 8, 2008
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                        The better solution will be roll back government to their own role in society i.e. internal and external security, representation of the nation with outside world not ownership of the nation), currency management, law making. Education and Health, by virtue of prone to market failure will still remain with government.
                         
                        Sanjay Jadhav
                         
                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Sanjay Jadhav <sanjayjadhav1999@...>
                        To: India-Force@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, 6 April, 2008 9:47:16 PM
                        Subject: [India-Force] Re: India is heading for disaster?

                        Dear Ashok ji,

                        I do not think removing congress or BJP will help in addressing the problem/s in isolation or in totality.

                        It appears to me Government in India has evolved from Ramrajya to present state by many innovations and helplessnes and compromises to its present state. The changes had been response to

                        (1) concept of co-existence of multiple rules till 1365. This time is marked by illiteracy, poor communication and poor public works. Tax maximization was not the goal of state. The relationship of ruler with subjects was kind of guardianship. The period was marked by Live and Let live.

                        (2) Then came period of invasion of Islaimic rulers with different ethos (no sanctity for multiple rules). The period lasted till 1757. This period was marked by increase of intra-state trade and aggregation of rule. Th public work and communication improved, but literacy was still low. There was little technology improvement.

                        (3) Third period was marked by increasing British rule till independence of India in 1947. The period should be understood as political rule for obtaining favourable trade terms with local rulers and economy. The imprived literacy & technology deployment (which existed in west) only tool to facilitate international trade of Indian commodities. Industrialization in India was marginal. The period is marked by improved literacy (although unsatisfactory) , improved communication and public works.

                        (4) forth period was Indian independence 1947 to date has seen improvement in literacy, industrialization, communication and public works. The period also concides with rapid increase in tax collection aided by economic development and as need to support industrialization, communication and public works.

                        Within limited context of question raised by you, I can add that with different level of technology, scale of economy, deeper penetration of products and services in society, market is better suited to handle many additional matters, which were hitherto reserved for government. This is also consistent with modern understanding of strategic management and organization science. In that sense government as mechanism is unfit for many jobs it is trying to do. Market is mechanism which will have to assume larger role. market is better placed for accomodating rising population and environment, adaptability with environment changes. many sectors would still be entrusted to government.

                        Now formerly in time of poor and expensive communication NGOs could not exist. But today they are formidable force for their capability of mass customization, ability to based pricing, relativly better structural independence.

                        The suggested solutions provide better lifestyle to marginal crosssection, but does not guarantee the fairness, lack of exploitation. Societies would have to make choices in this directions. Governments should better act as arbitrator of societal choices than ownership of the nations.

                        Sanjay Jadhav
                         
                      • Laxminarayan Kamath
                        ... Yes. You are quite right. But unless you have the complete solution to the problem of corruption, we must not attempt this. I will explain. The circle of
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 12, 2008
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                          On 4/3/08, ~Ashok <lama1126in@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > yes sure to some extent. This is not a permanent solution but would work
                          > miracles and help root out the problem once and for all time in
                          > near future.

                          Yes. You are quite right. But unless you have the complete solution to
                          the problem of corruption, we must not attempt this. I will explain.

                          The circle of corruption is a vicious one. The Government is corrupted
                          because the citizens are corrupted. And the citizens are corrupted
                          because the government is corrupted. The citizens are supported by our
                          Government. So if we remove BJP and Congress, we should have something
                          in it's place that can fit and support us otherwise, as a society, we
                          will collapse. And of course, it goes without saying that it should be
                          able to withstand the corruption from the citizens and should be free
                          from corruption itself. Unfortunately, for most citizens it has become
                          a matter of pride to be corrupted. Any point of time where we need to
                          be corrupted should be a matter of sadness to us and we should not
                          stop at fixing our individual problems which forced us to be
                          corrupted. If a father died because of cigarette smoking, the son
                          should not continue smoking saying "My dad used to love smoking.. I am
                          smoking for him.". Instead he should fight against the people who
                          corrupt their body with unnecessary chemicals.

                          I completely understand that sometimes corruption becomes necessary to
                          avoid any glitches in the design of the Government. But instead of
                          being temporary, it becomes a permanent thing. Like an Asthma patient
                          getting addicted to the steroids. That is what we should be always
                          aware about and avoid.

                          BJP and Congress, are the fruits of such a society and thus the
                          corruption is concentrated there. Nothing wrong in it. They are our
                          own fruits. In the plan to remove it, we citizens should also include
                          ways of cleaning ourselves and in the mean time prepare a replacement
                          Government which is clean, strong and has a high resistance to
                          corruption as well.

                          > Getting rid of these two Moster parties has become critical
                          > in these times.


                          --
                          Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
                          http://lankerisms.blogspot.com
                          (+91) 9945036093
                        • Sanjay Jadhav
                          It is fallacious to conclude para 3 reply like Mr Yadav has done.In USA there has never been cheap common life corruption like in third rate countries
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 12, 2008
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                            It is fallacious to conclude para 3 reply like Mr Yadav has done.In USA there has never been cheap common life corruption like in third rate countries (erstwhile british colonies like India)In Japan corruption is at political level only and frequently they are caught and have to leave power for the good.Some committed suicide too.
                            In India the shameless criminals and pests keep eating the country and thrive in politics and business both.The babudom is most rotten ,unaccountbale and corrupt in India in the world.Specially civil services guys(IAS ,IPS,IRS,IES etc) who have become naked,arrogant and bold an d are laibility on society.
                            It is time to teach them lessons and nail them down.They are cause of corruption as they not only indulge in luxury and corription themselevs they turn blind eyes to public complanits against subordinate officials.Life imprisonment and mandatory system of investigation and reply to public complaints is most irgent action needed.Their ill gotten wealth should be hounded out and annexed by people.These public servants terat them,selvesas masters and are doing naked dance of immoral behaviour,loot and enjoyment with strong lobbies and hobnobbing with crminals in polticis to lot and nlunder.How this can make growth in society.It is ridiculous.

                            Corruption brings down quality and efficiency in system both and wastes huge time of citizens and productive assets are converted to tinted black money and extravagant expenditure.Why any babu or poltician have right to take bribes and steal public money? They should be shot.They are outright criminls and pests on society.Rajiv Gandhi once became furious on his helplessnenss and bluretd that only 20 paisa of Rs 1 reaches to people for whom govrnment spends.
                            The arguments given by Yadav are baseless without any statistical or reseacrh eveidence and deep analysis. he ius trying tio legitimise corrupt.This is right gainst the objectives and declared norms of this forum.Such irresponsible comments should be desidtes.If evry one starts doing this and extort money from others society will collapse.WE should condemn corruption and corrupt.It is failure of democracy.

                            Prof R K Gupta

                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Dear Ashok Sharma Sahab,

                            You are giving more importance to corruption than it deserves. It is
                            very easy and sloppy idea to wait for corruption to disappear
                            because waking up to bring Ramrajya in this great nation. There are
                            many key issues of corruption, which sadly never discussed in any
                            popular forums and yahoogroups. I will bring to your attention here.

                            (1) Corruption is government centred. Similar transactions between
                            to private entities and corporate with their customers, does not
                            involve corruption, although sometimes overcharging takes place by
                            misuse of monopoly.

                            (2) Government machinery when gather more powers than responsibility
                            it results into corruption. Therefore government should vacate space
                            where they have proved unfit or outlived the utility.

                            (3) The assumption of development by killing corruption is greatest
                            superstition guarded by middle class of India. Experience shows that
                            US, China and Japan, grew fastest and employment galloped fastest,
                            it was the most corrupt period of their history.

                            (4) We want small government. The battalion of the government babus
                            interfere with our life, they pass laws, prosecute us for the
                            activity, which are not crime in rest of the world. They will define
                            cognisible offense and slap penalty if you fail to file so and so

                            report before 5th of the months. Instead of doing jobs of governance
                            (Police, administration, external security,) the extra people
                            indulge in selling milk, foodgrains, 5 start hotels, air transport,
                            steel, coal, insurance, banking, bus transport, telephone,
                            electricity, soap selling, electricity bulbs, machine tools,
                            watches, tractors, etc. Then the government Company closes down
                            leaving losses on taxpayer's head. The smaller government on the
                            other hand calls for smaller taxes.

                            p.s. If some people do not understand how to ride on this wild drunk
                            horse does not mean India is heading for disaster.

                            Regards

                            Sanjay Jadhav

                            --- In India-Force@yahoogroups.com, "Laxminarayan Kamath"
                            <kamathln@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On 4/3/08, ~Ashok <lama1126in@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > yes sure to some extent. This is not a permanent solution but
                            would work
                            > > miracles and help root out the problem once and for all time in
                            > > near future.
                            >
                            > Yes. You are quite right. But unless you have the complete
                            solution to
                            > the problem of corruption, we must not attempt this. I will
                            explain.
                            >
                            > The circle of corruption is a vicious one. The Government is
                            corrupted
                            > because the citizens are corrupted. And the citizens are corrupted
                            > because the government is corrupted. The citizens are supported by
                            our
                            > Government. So if we remove BJP and Congress, we should have
                            something
                            > in it's place that can fit and support us otherwise, as a society,
                            we
                            > will collapse. And of course, it goes without saying that it
                            should be
                            > able to withstand the corruption from the citizens and should be
                            free
                            > from corruption itself. Unfortunately, for most citizens it has
                            become
                            > a matter of pride to be corrupted. Any point of time where we need
                            to
                            > be corrupted should be a matter of sadness to us and we should not
                            > stop at fixing our individual problems which forced us to be
                            > corrupted. If a father died because of cigarette smoking, the son
                            > should not continue smoking saying "My dad used to love smoking..
                            I am
                            > smoking for him.". Instead he should fight against the people who
                            > corrupt their body with unnecessary chemicals.
                            >
                            > I completely understand that sometimes corruption becomes
                            necessary to
                            > avoid any glitches in the design of the Government. But instead of
                            > being temporary, it becomes a permanent thing. Like an Asthma
                            patient
                            > getting addicted to the steroids. That is what we should be always
                            > aware about and avoid.
                            >
                            > BJP and Congress, are the fruits of such a society and thus the
                            > corruption is concentrated there. Nothing wrong in it. They are
                            our
                            > own fruits. In the plan to remove it, we citizens should also
                            include
                            > ways of cleaning ourselves and in the mean time prepare a
                            replacement
                            > Government which is clean, strong and has a high resistance to
                            > corruption as well.
                            >
                            > > Getting rid of these two Moster parties has become critical
                            > > in these times.
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
                            > http://lankerisms.blogspot.com
                            > (+91) 9945036093
                            >
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