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Re: [JaneAusten] S&S

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  • Dbelle1998@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/1/00 12:33:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ADolegowski@cs.com writes:
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 1, 2000
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      In a message dated 4/1/00 12:33:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      ADolegowski@... writes:

      << Well, I believe that Marianne fell in love with Willoughby because, like
      her,
      he admired the picturesque. His favorite poetry, songs, etc. were also her
      favorites. >>

      But were they his favorites? Reading the novel made me wonder, but watching
      the movie really did. I sometimes think that he knew what type of person she
      was and centered his ideas and beliefs around them. I don't know where it is
      in the book (I let someone borrow mine for the moment so I cannot look it
      up), but Elinor makes a comment like - she cannot talk to W. on any subject
      because he is a lover. Something like that. I wonder if catering his ideas
      and tastes around every pretty lady is the usual for him. Most people know
      nothing about his tastes other than hunting - and that is what most men seem
      to do in the novel.

      Jill Marie
    • mimi2all@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/2/00 7:18:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, anders-b.henningsson.768@student.lu.se writes:
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 2, 2000
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        In a message dated 4/2/00 7:18:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        anders-b.henningsson.768@... writes:

        << I think a feeling that come in an instant often leave in an
        instant too (easy to get - easy to lose, easy come - easy go)
        but sometimes they can be their to stay for the rest of your life.

        But to love somebody is not the same as that person is fit for
        living with you so learning to know each other is important anyway.
        >>

        Hi Anders -

        I agree with your comments here 100%. You can love someone who is not a
        proper choice for you (for whatever reason).

        Does that mean you love them less because you logically know it can not work
        out? I don't think so. In some cases, it may make a situation seem MORE
        romantic knowing it can never be ... but that is not the case for Maryanne.

        I think Maryanne found W. to be her "soulmate" in every sense, quite
        similarly to any young girl you speak with today who is searching for her
        "soulmate". We have all experienced different kinds of love and not everyone
        believes in one perfect partner - the "soulmate". I didn't believe in it
        myself until I met him. For a variety of reasons, it did not work out.
        Four years later, I am not sure that I could ever love someone else in quite
        that way, with that intensity.

        So, I believe Maryanne would be capable of loving the Colonel but the love
        would be quite different. I don't think that invalidates her feelings for
        Willouby or minimizes them, however. Her heart and her spirit were quite
        broken by W.'s betrayal but I think she realized you can still have a
        valuable relationship with a man and can love him, get married, have
        children, and be happy with your life and your relationship. I think mutual
        respect is the key for a successful marriage. Maryanne respected Willouby
        until he betrayed her. His betrayal, I think, helped her see the Colonel's
        true worth.

        When you are young and in love, you want to know EVERYTHING about the other
        person. The more Maryanne learned of Willouby, the more she reinforced the
        idea to herself that they were perfect for each other. She never took the
        time to even notice any of the Colonel's interests, etc. until she began to
        recover from her illness.

        Willouby was an equal to Maryanne's mind and sensibilities. After his
        betrayal, she changed. She realized she had been self-indulgent and she
        decided she would not be so weak anymore. The Colonel helped her open her
        mind to new interests and I believe he would be the type of man who would
        welcome her opinions, even if they differed from his. Willouby was so much
        like Maryanne that I don't believe they differed in opinion on any subject.
        The naive girl that she was may have been satisfied with that indefinately.

        Do you think, under the Colonel's tutoring, Maryanne would grow to think
        independently from him? Or would she mirror the Colonel's ideas about the
        world?

        Mimi
      • Aysin Dedekorkut
        ... If you look in the book closely, Willoughby never gives his opinion until Marianne does, and then he echoes what she says. So he creates an image Marianne
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 3, 2000
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          >ADolegowski@... writes:
          >
          ><< Well, I believe that Marianne fell in love with Willoughby because,
          >like her, he admired the picturesque. His favorite poetry, songs, etc.
          >were also her favorites. >>
          >
          >But were they his favorites? Reading the novel made me wonder, but
          >watching the movie really did. I sometimes think that he knew what type of
          >person she was and centered his ideas and beliefs around them. I don't
          >know where it is in the book (I let someone borrow mine for the moment so
          >I cannot look it up), but Elinor makes a comment like - she cannot talk to
          >W. on any subject because he is a lover. Something like that. I wonder if
          >catering his ideas and tastes around every pretty lady is the usual for
          >him. Most people know nothing about his tastes other than hunting - and
          >that is what most men seem to do in the novel.
          >
          >Jill Marie

          If you look in the book closely, Willoughby never gives his opinion until
          Marianne does, and then he echoes what she says. So he creates an image
          Marianne would like and Marianne falls in love with this image. The movie
          is a bad guide at this point because it makes it look like their tastes are
          really the same, they add that scene where Willoughby has a pocket version
          of the book Marianne so admires and he carries it around all the time.
          There is no such thing in the book. Willoughby is a liar and scoundrel and
          Marianne never knew who he was. So it was attraction more than love.

          Aysin Dedekorkut

          "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of
          a good fortune must be in want of a wife."
        • Susan Somers
          i personally can never decide what i think of marianne. sometimes she seems so innocent, othertimes so worldly. will she just take up the opinions of the
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 12, 2000
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            i personally can never decide what i think of
            marianne. sometimes she seems so innocent, othertimes
            so worldly. will she just take up the opinions of the
            Colonel? i don't know, i don't know. marianne somewhat
            reminds of my high-school peers (some my very good
            friends) who make themselves over for each new
            boyfriend. yet marianne overall has a level of
            understanding that would seem to take her beyond that.
            i think the problem is her romanticism. she is so
            convinced of the need for a soulmate (witness the
            romantic tales and poems she reads)(and think of
            today's women obsessed with weight and sex and men and
            their fashion magazines) that she will create one for
            herself. a soulmate, that person most suited to you in
            all respects, that you are "destined" for. i myself
            see no validity in soulmates; i feel that there are
            probably millions of people the average person could
            be comfortable, even enthralled with, in a married
            relationship. yet most of these people might feel as
            if they were soulmates. each person would meet in the
            middle on their views and blow out of proportion the
            coincidence of the views they already shared.
            therefore, we create our own soulmates. so i think
            marianne in this context could consider both of her
            lovers to be soulmates and take up some of their views
            without losing too much validity or personal appeal.

            susan

            =====
            anything, no matter what, to get rid of the thinking. . .
            frederick douglass

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