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Second Question: Paul

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  • Brian McCarthy
    1. Is there reason to believe that Paul knew or was interested in sharing with the churches he founded more than a quite minimal body of Jesus teaching
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 23, 2001
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      1. Is there reason to believe that Paul knew or was interested in sharing with the churches he founded more than a quite minimal body of Jesus' teaching traditions?

      2. If you think there is, could you briefly sketch what components of the teaching traditions of Jesus he might have felt he should share with his new communities or, perhaps better, direct us toward some writing which does so and justifies its decisions.

      Brian McCarthy
      Madison WI

      P.S. I don't think it would be appropriate in this exchange to go into the wider question that the case of Paul raises, but it will be important to address it eventually : How effective was the process of "informal controlled transmission" during the first decades of the spread of the Christian movement out into the wider Med. world?
      Who did the spreading? How many of them were 'free-lancers' like Paul? What knowledge did they have of the Jesus traditions? How important did they think these traditions were? Who, if anyone, did the controlling?
      [Perhaps in some cases the spreading came first and the controlling came later, with the emergence and growing influence of the Great Church within the wider movement.]
      [Some years ago I caught myself assuming that Paul's role in the early decades of the movement's spread was equivalent to his self-understanding--and to the place of his writings in the NT, a very large piece of the whole! Today I suspect that ir was quite a modest piece.]

      An obvious starting hypothesis is that as regards knowledge of, and high regard for, the Jesus teaching traditions, there was a wide spectrum: with people corresponding to the later positions of Mt (and Lk) at one end; and at the other, people corresponding to the later position of the Johannine gospel which sacrifices the tradition so as to free up Jesus to be the mouthpiece of their own deeper Paraclete-guided insights--though this latter attitude may have taken decades to emerge from more conservative beginnings.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Meta Dunn
      Dear Brian, I have suggested elsewhere that Paul s allusions to Jesus tradition indicate his assumption that his audiences (even in Rome) will pick up the
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 25, 2001
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        Dear Brian,
        I have suggested elsewhere that Paul's allusions to Jesus tradition
        indicate his assumption that his audiences (even in Rome) will pick up
        the allusions. If so, the 'minimal body of Jesus tradition' that we
        are able to discern is probably the tip of an iceberg - an iceberg of
        whose dimensions the Q material probably gives us some clue. I gave a
        brief outline of the sort of traditions we can put our finger on in
        Unity and Diversity in the NT para 17, and tried to explain the
        rationale in my Theology of Paul paras 8.1-3.
        But, yes, I will have to address the question of how the 'informally
        controlled tradition' model 'works' in, say, the Pauline mission. So
        I'll refrain from saying more at this stage, if that's OK.
        JDGD

        Brian McCarthy wrote:

        > 1. Is there reason to believe that Paul knew or was interested in sharing with the churches he founded more than a quite minimal body of Jesus' teaching traditions?
        >
        > 2. If you think there is, could you briefly sketch what components of the teaching traditions of Jesus he might have felt he should share with his new communities or, perhaps better, direct us toward some writing which does so and justifies its decisions.
        >
        > Brian McCarthy
        > Madison WI
        >
        > P.S. I don't think it would be appropriate in this exchange to go into the wider question that the case of Paul raises, but it will be important to address it eventually : How effective was the process of "informal controlled transmission" during the first decades of the spread of the Christian movement out into the wider Med. world?
        > Who did the spreading? How many of them were 'free-lancers' like Paul? What knowledge did they have of the Jesus traditions? How important did they think these traditions were? Who, if anyone, did the controlling?
        > [Perhaps in some cases the spreading came first and the controlling came later, with the emergence and growing influence of the Great Church within the wider movement.]
        > [Some years ago I caught myself assuming that Paul's role in the early decades of the movement's spread was equivalent to his self-understanding--and to the place of his writings in the NT, a very large piece of the whole! Today I suspect that ir was quite a modest piece.]
        >
        > An obvious starting hypothesis is that as regards knowledge of, and high regard for, the Jesus teaching traditions, there was a wide spectrum: with people corresponding to the later positions of Mt (and Lk) at one end; and at the other, people corresponding to the later position of the Johannine gospel which sacrifices the tradition so as to free up Jesus to be the mouthpiece of their own deeper Paraclete-guided insights--though this latter attitude may have taken decades to emerge from more conservative beginnings.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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