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Re: "Wormwood"

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  • TJ
    ... It s not uncommon for the Bible to use stars in a figurative sense. This is from the Insight book: Figurative Use. Stars are used in the Bible in a
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 22, 2010
      --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Nann <dreemweever40@...> wrote:
      >
      > so far I'm getting no where  with this . I've relayed the info the
      > others so kindly offered on to this person and they still insist 
      > " the Bible says it's a star,  I'm  not giving up  !  LOL  any
      > help appreciated


      It's not uncommon for the Bible to use stars in a figurative sense. This is from the Insight book:

      "Figurative Use. Stars are used in the Bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as in Joseph's dream in which his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. (Ge 37:9, 10) Job 38:7 parallels "the morning stars" that joyfully cried out at earth's founding with the angelic "sons of God." The resurrected and exalted Jesus spoke of himself as "the bright morning star" and promised to give "the morning star" to his conquering followers, evidently indicating a sharing with him in his heavenly position and glory. (Re 22:16; 2:26, 28; compare 2Ti 2:12; Re 20:6.) The seven "angels" of the congregations, to whom written messages are delivered, are symbolized by seven stars in the right hand of Christ. (Re 1:16, 20; 2:1; 3:1) "The angel of the abyss" called Abaddon is also represented by a star.—Re 9:1, 11; see ABADDON.

      "In the proverbial saying of Isaiah chapter 14, the boastful and ambitious king of Babylon (that is, the Babylonian dynasty of kings represented by Nebuchadnezzar), called the "shining one" (Heb., heh·lel′; "Lucifer," KJ), is presented as seeking to lift up his throne "above the stars of God." (Isa 14:4, 12, 13; see SHINING ONE.) The metaphor of a "star" is used in referring prophetically to the Davidic kings of Judah (Nu 24:17), and Bible history shows that the Babylonian dynasty for a time did rise above these Judean kings by conquest of Jerusalem. A similar prophecy in Daniel chapter 8 describes the small "horn" of some future power as trampling down certain stars of "the army of the heavens" and moving against the Prince of the army and his sanctuary (Da 8:9-13); while at Daniel chapter 12, by simile, those persons "having insight" and bringing others to righteousness are pictured as shining "like the stars" in "the time of the end." (Da 12:3, 9, 10) By contrast, immoral deviators from truth are compared to "stars with no set course."—Jude 13.

      "The darkening of the stars, along with the sun and moon, is a frequent figure used in prophetic warnings of disaster brought as a result of God's judgment. (Isa 13:10; Eze 32:7; Re 6:12, 13; 8:12; compare Job 9:6, 7.) The dimming of such luminaries is also used in the description of the fading years of the aged person at Ecclesiastes 12:1, 2. Elsewhere stars are spoken of as falling or being cast down to earth. (Mt 24:29; Re 8:10; 9:1; 12:4) "Signs" in sun, moon, and stars are foretold as evidence of the time of the end.—Lu 21:25."


      TJ
    • moto_bl
      Also to consider: A literal star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma that is held together by gravity. To get a sense of the size of stars, the nearest star
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 22, 2010

        Also to consider:

        A literal star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma that is held together by gravity. To get a sense of the size of stars, the nearest star to Earth is the Sun. 1,300,000 Earths could fit in the Sun and the Sun is considered only an average-sized star. If a literal star were to actually stray into the solar system and come into contact with the Earth, the damage would be far more devastating than simply 1/3 of the Earth being affected. If a literal star were to actually come into direct contact with the Earth as is being assumed by your acquaintance, the oceans, lakes and rivers would literally boil away (leaving no rivers for the star to fall on in the first place) and eventually the entire earth would be consumed.

        Clearly, as TJ and Teddy and Paul brought out, this "star" Wormwood would have to be meant in a figurative sense for it to "fall" upon the Earth. For if it were a literal star, considering a star's size and gravity, it is the Earth that would fall into the star...not the other way around.  

         

        --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, "TJ" <t35josiah@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Nann dreemweever40@ wrote:
        > >
        > > so far I'm getting no where  with this . I've relayed the info the
        > > others so kindly offered on to this person and they still insist 
        > > " the Bible says it's a star,  I'm  not giving up  !  LOL  any
        > > help appreciated
        >
        >
        > It's not uncommon for the Bible to use stars in a figurative sense. This is from the Insight book:
        >
        > "Figurative Use. Stars are used in the Bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as in Joseph's dream in which his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. (Ge 37:9, 10) Job 38:7 parallels "the morning stars" that joyfully cried out at earth's founding with the angelic "sons of God." The resurrected and exalted Jesus spoke of himself as "the bright morning star" and promised to give "the morning star" to his conquering followers, evidently indicating a sharing with him in his heavenly position and glory. (Re 22:16; 2:26, 28; compare 2Ti 2:12; Re 20:6.) The seven "angels" of the congregations, to whom written messages are delivered, are symbolized by seven stars in the right hand of Christ. (Re 1:16, 20; 2:1; 3:1) "The angel of the abyss" called Abaddon is also represented by a star.—Re 9:1, 11; see ABADDON.
        >
        > "In the proverbial saying of Isaiah chapter 14, the boastful and ambitious king of Babylon (that is, the Babylonian dynasty of kings represented by Nebuchadnezzar), called the "shining one" (Heb., heh·lel&#8242;; "Lucifer," KJ), is presented as seeking to lift up his throne "above the stars of God." (Isa 14:4, 12, 13; see SHINING ONE.) The metaphor of a "star" is used in referring prophetically to the Davidic kings of Judah (Nu 24:17), and Bible history shows that the Babylonian dynasty for a time did rise above these Judean kings by conquest of Jerusalem. A similar prophecy in Daniel chapter 8 describes the small "horn" of some future power as trampling down certain stars of "the army of the heavens" and moving against the Prince of the army and his sanctuary (Da 8:9-13); while at Daniel chapter 12, by simile, those persons "having insight" and bringing others to righteousness are pictured as shining "like the stars" in "the time of the end." (Da 12:3, 9, 10) By contrast, immoral deviators from truth are compared to "stars with no set course."—Jude 13.
        >
        > "The darkening of the stars, along with the sun and moon, is a frequent figure used in prophetic warnings of disaster brought as a result of God's judgment. (Isa 13:10; Eze 32:7; Re 6:12, 13; 8:12; compare Job 9:6, 7.) The dimming of such luminaries is also used in the description of the fading years of the aged person at Ecclesiastes 12:1, 2. Elsewhere stars are spoken of as falling or being cast down to earth. (Mt 24:29; Re 8:10; 9:1; 12:4) "Signs" in sun, moon, and stars are foretold as evidence of the time of the end.—Lu 21:25."
        >
        >
        > TJ
        >

      • Paul Leonard
        Excellent point and so obvious it is a wonder it takes so long for it to be pointed out. ________________________________ From: moto_bl
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 23, 2010
          Excellent point and so obvious it is a wonder it takes so long for it to be pointed out.


          From: moto_bl <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
          To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:15:27 AM
          Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: "Wormwood"

           

          Also to consider:

          A literal star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma that is held together by gravity. To get a sense of the size of stars, the nearest star to Earth is the Sun. 1,300,000 Earths could fit in the Sun and the Sun is considered only an average-sized star. If a literal star were to actually stray into the solar system and come into contact with the Earth, the damage would be far more devastating than simply 1/3 of the Earth being affected. If a literal star were to actually come into direct contact with the Earth as is being assumed by your acquaintance, the oceans, lakes and rivers would literally boil away (leaving no rivers for the star to fall on in the first place) and eventually the entire earth would be consumed.

          Clearly, as TJ and Teddy and Paul brought out, this "star" Wormwood would have to be meant in a figurative sense for it to "fall" upon the Earth. For if it were a literal star, considering a star's size and gravity, it is the Earth that would fall into the star...not the other way around.  


        • Jim
          Hi, I think everyone would agree that a literal star is not meant in the prophecy. Also worth considering is that in John s day astronomy was primitive and no
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 24, 2010
            Hi,
            I think everyone would agree that a literal star is not meant in the prophecy. Also worth considering is that in John's day astronomy was primitive and no one knew the true, infernal nature of stars, although they could distinguish stars from planets. Some have proposed that the star is still natural and is a meteor, asteroid or comet. Wikipedia says: "An applicable scenario theorizes a chemical change in the atmosphere due to "heat shock" during entry and/or impact of a large asteroid or comet, reacting oxygen and nitrogen in the atmosphere to produce nitric-acid rain."* But, Revelation 1:1 declares that it is recorded in "signs," so clearly Wormwood cannot be a literal star or another celestial star-like body (meteor, asteroid or comet). It must refer to the fallen condition of a spiritual entity; and in our interpretation it is the clergy of Christendom that best fits the description.

            * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_(star)

            Jim

            --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, moto_bl <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > Also to consider:
            >
            > A literal star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma that is held
            > together by gravity. To get a sense of the size of stars, the nearest
            > star to Earth is the Sun. 1,300,000 Earths could fit in the Sun and the
            > Sun is considered only an average-sized star. If a literal star were to
            > actually stray into the solar system and come into contact with the
            > Earth, the damage would be far more devastating than simply 1/3 of the
            > Earth being affected. If a literal star were to actually come into
            > direct contact with the Earth as is being assumed by your acquaintance,
            > the oceans, lakes and rivers would literally boil away (leaving no
            > rivers for the star to fall on in the first place) and eventually the
            > entire earth would be consumed.
            >
            > Clearly, as TJ and Teddy and Paul brought out, this "star" Wormwood
            > would have to be meant in a figurative sense for it to "fall" upon the
            > Earth. For if it were a literal star, considering a star's size and
            > gravity, it is the Earth that would fall into the star...not the other
            > way around.
          • Nann
            very interesting --makes a lot of sense   . thanks so much ! Nancy Four things you can t recover:   The stone.........after the throw.          The
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 24, 2010
              very interesting --makes a lot of sense   . thanks so much !
              Nancy

              Four things you can't recover:
               
              The stone.........after the throw.         
              The word...........after it's said.
              The occasion........after it's missed.     
              The time...........after it's gone.

              .



              --- On Wed, 3/24/10, Jim <jimspace3000@...> wrote:

              From: Jim <jimspace3000@...>
              Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: "Wormwood"
              To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 10:11 AM

               

              Hi,
              I think everyone would agree that a literal star is not meant in the prophecy. Also worth considering is that in John's day astronomy was primitive and no one knew the true, infernal nature of stars, although they could distinguish stars from planets. Some have proposed that the star is still natural and is a meteor, asteroid or comet. Wikipedia says: "An applicable scenario theorizes a chemical change in the atmosphere due to "heat shock" during entry and/or impact of a large asteroid or comet, reacting oxygen and nitrogen in the atmosphere to produce nitric-acid rain."* But, Revelation 1:1 declares that it is recorded in "signs," so clearly Wormwood cannot be a literal star or another celestial star-like body (meteor, asteroid or comet). It must refer to the fallen condition of a spiritual entity; and in our interpretation it is the clergy of Christendom that best fits the description.

              * http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Wormwood_(star)

              Jim

              --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, moto_bl <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
              >
              > Also to consider:
              >
              > A literal star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma that is held
              > together by gravity. To get a sense of the size of stars, the nearest
              > star to Earth is the Sun. 1,300,000 Earths could fit in the Sun and the
              > Sun is considered only an average-sized star. If a literal star were to
              > actually stray into the solar system and come into contact with the
              > Earth, the damage would be far more devastating than simply 1/3 of the
              > Earth being affected. If a literal star were to actually come into
              > direct contact with the Earth as is being assumed by your acquaintance,
              > the oceans, lakes and rivers would literally boil away (leaving no
              > rivers for the star to fall on in the first place) and eventually the
              > entire earth would be consumed.
              >
              > Clearly, as TJ and Teddy and Paul brought out, this "star" Wormwood
              > would have to be meant in a figurative sense for it to "fall" upon the
              > Earth. For if it were a literal star, considering a star's size and
              > gravity, it is the Earth that would fall into the star...not the other
              > way around.


            • Nann
              yes ,  that s a very good point .   thanks very much ! Nancy Four things you can t recover:   The stone.........after the throw.          The
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 24, 2010
                yes ,  that 's a very good point .   thanks very much !
                Nancy

                Four things you can't recover:
                 
                The stone.........after the throw.         
                The word...........after it's said.
                The occasion........after it's missed.     
                The time...........after it's gone.

                .



                --- On Tue, 3/23/10, moto_bl <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                From: moto_bl <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: "Wormwood"
                To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 1:15 AM

                 

                Also to consider:

                A literal star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma that is held together by gravity. To get a sense of the size of stars, the nearest star to Earth is the Sun. 1,300,000 Earths could fit in the Sun and the Sun is considered only an average-sized star. If a literal star were to actually stray into the solar system and come into contact with the Earth, the damage would be far more devastating than simply 1/3 of the Earth being affected. If a literal star were to actually come into direct contact with the Earth as is being assumed by your acquaintance, the oceans, lakes and rivers would literally boil away (leaving no rivers for the star to fall on in the first place) and eventually the entire earth would be consumed.

                Clearly, as TJ and Teddy and Paul brought out, this "star" Wormwood would have to be meant in a figurative sense for it to "fall" upon the Earth. For if it were a literal star, considering a star's size and gravity, it is the Earth that would fall into the star...not the other way around.  

                 

                --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, "TJ" <t35josiah@.. .> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Nann dreemweever40@ wrote:
                > >
                > > so far I'm getting no where  with this . I've relayed the info the
                > > others so kindly offered on to this person and they still insist 
                > > " the Bible says it's a star,  I'm  not giving up  !  LOL  any
                > > help appreciated
                >
                >
                > It's not uncommon for the Bible to use stars in a figurative sense. This is from the Insight book:
                >
                > "Figurative Use. Stars are used in the Bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as in Joseph's dream in which his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. (Ge 37:9, 10) Job 38:7 parallels "the morning stars" that joyfully cried out at earth's founding with the angelic "sons of God." The resurrected and exalted Jesus spoke of himself as "the bright morning star" and promised to give "the morning star" to his conquering followers, evidently indicating a sharing with him in his heavenly position and glory. (Re 22:16; 2:26, 28; compare 2Ti 2:12; Re 20:6.) The seven "angels" of the congregations, to whom written messages are delivered, are symbolized by seven stars in the right hand of Christ. (Re 1:16, 20; 2:1; 3:1) "The angel of the abyss" called Abaddon is also represented by a star.—Re 9:1, 11; see ABADDON.
                >
                > "In the proverbial saying of Isaiah chapter 14, the boastful and ambitious king of Babylon (that is, the Babylonian dynasty of kings represented by Nebuchadnezzar) , called the "shining one" (Heb., heh·lel&#8242;; "Lucifer," KJ), is presented as seeking to lift up his throne "above the stars of God." (Isa 14:4, 12, 13; see SHINING ONE.) The metaphor of a "star" is used in referring prophetically to the Davidic kings of Judah (Nu 24:17), and Bible history shows that the Babylonian dynasty for a time did rise above these Judean kings by conquest of Jerusalem. A similar prophecy in Daniel chapter 8 describes the small "horn" of some future power as trampling down certain stars of "the army of the heavens" and moving against the Prince of the army and his sanctuary (Da 8:9-13); while at Daniel chapter 12, by simile, those persons "having insight" and bringing others to righteousness are pictured as shining "like the stars" in "the time of the end." (Da 12:3, 9, 10) By contrast, immoral deviators from truth are compared to "stars with no set course."—Jude 13.
                >
                > "The darkening of the stars, along with the sun and moon, is a frequent figure used in prophetic warnings of disaster brought as a result of God's judgment. (Isa 13:10; Eze 32:7; Re 6:12, 13; 8:12; compare Job 9:6, 7.) The dimming of such luminaries is also used in the description of the fading years of the aged person at Ecclesiastes 12:1, 2. Elsewhere stars are spoken of as falling or being cast down to earth. (Mt 24:29; Re 8:10; 9:1; 12:4) "Signs" in sun, moon, and stars are foretold as evidence of the time of the end.—Lu 21:25."
                >
                >
                > TJ
                >


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