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Re: [JWquestions-and_answers] Trinity

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  • Paul Leonard
    Hi, Where do you find the Trinity in that verse? It does not speak of persons/being, equality or a godhead. Using a singular name is used of others who are
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 10, 2010

      Hi,

      Where do you find the Trinity in that verse? It does not speak of persons/being, equality or a godhead. Using a singular  "name" is used of others who are two or more different beings.

      In addition we do not find anyone actually being baptized using those words in Scripture.

      If we took it as a requirement, then we would find it used elsewhere in Scripture.. However we do find baptized in the name of Jesus frequently. If we accept the Trinitarian position on Matt 28:19 it could lead to Sabellianism or Oneness, as it would mean Jesus was all three not just the Son.

      Finally it is possible that it is a later addition to the text.

      Here are some comments on the issue by scholars and translators. This is a short list.

      The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge:
      "Jesus, however, cannot have given His disciples this Trinitarian order of baptism after His resurrection; for the New Testament knows only one baptism in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:43; 19:5; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13-15), which still occurs even in the second and third centuries, while the Trinitarian formula occurs only in Matt. 28:19, and then only again (in the) Didache 7:1 and Justin, Apol. 1:61...Finally, the distinctly liturgical character of the formula...is strange; it was not the way of Jesus to make such formulas... the formal authenticity of Matt. 28:19 must be disputed..." page 435.


      The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
      "It may be that this formula, (Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."


      The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism," says:
      "Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus."


      The Bible Commentary 1919 page 723:
      Dr. Peake makes it clear that: "The command to baptize into the threefold name is a late doctrinal expansion. Instead of the words baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost we should probably read simply-"into My Name."


      The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, 275:
      "It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical addition."


      Consequently, to use Matt 28:19 as a "proof" text or support for the Trinity is not possible.

       

      Why don't you believe in the Trinity?  Didn't Jesus tell the disciples to baptize in the name of "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost"?

    • moto_bl
      Hi. Even Trinitarian sources have admitted that the Trinity
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 10, 2010

        Hi.

        Even Trinitarian sources have admitted that the Trinity doctrine is not biblical:

        "The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." - The New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XIV, p. 299, (1967).

        "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4)" - The New Encyclopedia Britannica

         

        Concerning Mt. 28:19:

        W. E. Vine, the New Testament language expert who is so highly respected by trinitarians tells us that Bible phrases beginning "in the name of..." indicate that the secondary meaning of "authority" or "power" was intended by the Bible writer. - p. 772, Vine. Therefore, Matt. 28:19 actually means: "baptizing them in recognition of the power [or the authority] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy spirit."

        Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. 1, p. 245, makes the same admission when discussing Matt. 28:19:

        "The use of name (onoma) here is a common one in the Septuagint and the papyri for power or authority."

        Noted trinitarian scholars McClintock and Strong say in their Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature concerning Matthew 28:18-20:

        "This text, however, taken by itself, would not prove decisively either the personality of the three subjects mentioned, or their equality or divinity." (1981 reprint, Vol. X, p. 552)

        And trinitarian scholar Kittel in his Theological Dictionary of the New Testament:

        "The N[ew] T[estament] does not actually speak of triunity. We seek this in vain in the triadic formulae [including Matthew 28:19] of the NT."

        The fact that "name" is singular at Matt. 28:19 is only further proof that "authority" or "power" was meant and not a personal name. If more than one person is involved, then the plural "names" would be used (compare Rev. 21:12). Even trinitarians admit that their God is composed of 3 separate persons. And each one of those "persons" has his own personal name (except, upon further study, one will see that the holy spirit really does not). Therefore, if personal names were intended here for these three different "persons," the plural "names" would have been used in this scripture.

        Since it clearly means "in recognition of the power, or authority of," it is perfectly correct to use "name" in the singular. In fact, it must be used that way. We even recognize this in our own language today. We say, for example, "I did it in the name [singular] of love, humanity, and justice."

        For much more, see:

        Why Don't Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in the Trinity?

        Are Jehovah's Witnesses not Christians because they do not believe in the trinity?

        Does Mt. 28:19 prove that the Holy Spirit is God?

        Trinity Indexes

        Examining Trinity 'Proof Texts'

        --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, James Dillon <dillonzo88@...> wrote:
        >
        > Why don't you believe in the Trinity?  Didn't Jesus tell the disciples to baptize in the name of "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost"?
        >

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