Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [JWquestions-and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12

Expand Messages
  • Paul Leonard
    I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text as they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God could not die. ...
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 24, 2009
      I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text as they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God could not die.

      --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      From: teddy_trueblood <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
      To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM

      I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it has not posted yet.  So, I will respond to it anyway.  Basically the question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as

      (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12  "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." ?

       But many other Bibles render it as

      (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.

      Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say.  However many do not.  Here are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel Bible (Oxford University Press,  1993):

      (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One?  You shall not die.

      (REB)  LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One, who is immortal?

      (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?

      (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who never dies!
      ............ ......... ......... ...
      Here are some others I found online:

      (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy One? for you there is no death.

      (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!

      (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You are my God, holy and eternal.

      (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity, Yahweh my God?
      My Holy One, You will not die.
      ............ ......... ......... ......
      The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who is immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in the existing Hebrew text.

      And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates it "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a change made by a pious scribe."


    • ginosko92
      Teddy, Paul Thank you very much for your imput. I really appreciate all your help. Keep up the good work.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 25, 2009
        Teddy, Paul

        Thank you very much for your imput. I really appreciate all your help. Keep up the good work.


        --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
        >
        > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text as they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God could not die.
        >
        > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        >
        > From: teddy_trueblood <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
        > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it has not posted yet.  So, I will respond to it anyway.  Basically the question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
        >
        > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12  "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." ?
        >
        >  But many other Bibles render it as
        >
        > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
        >
        > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say.  However many do not.  Here are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel Bible (Oxford University Press,  1993):
        >
        > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One?  You shall not die.
        >
        > (REB)  LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One, who is immortal?
        >
        > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
        >
        > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who never dies!
        > ............ ......... ......... ...
        > Here are some others I found online:
        >
        > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy One? for you there is no death.
        >
        > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
        >
        > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You are my God, holy and eternal.
        >
        > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity, Yahweh my God?
        > My Holy One, You will not die.
        > ............ ......... ......... ......
        > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who is immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in the existing Hebrew text.
        >
        > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates it "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a change made by a pious scribe."
        >
      • moto_bl
        I wonder how trinitarians (or Jesus is God believers) attempt to explain this verse? ... they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 25, 2009

          I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to explain this verse?


          --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text as they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God could not die.
          >
          > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          >
          > From: teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
          > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it has not posted yet.  So, I will respond to it anyway.  Basically the question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
          >
          > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12  "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." ?
          >
          >  But many other Bibles render it as
          >
          > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
          >
          > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say.  However many do not.  Here are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel Bible (Oxford University Press,  1993):
          >
          > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One?  You shall not die.
          >
          > (REB)  LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One, who is immortal?
          >
          > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
          >
          > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who never dies!
          > ............ ......... ......... ...
          > Here are some others I found online:
          >
          > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy One? for you there is no death.
          >
          > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
          >
          > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You are my God, holy and eternal.
          >
          > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity, Yahweh my God?
          > My Holy One, You will not die.
          > ............ ......... ......... ......
          > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who is immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in the existing Hebrew text.
          >
          > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates it "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a change made by a pious scribe."
          >
        • ginosko92
          My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first of the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically speaking about
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 25, 2009
            My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first of
            the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically
            speaking about Jehovah. Since God cannot die according to this verse in
            Habakkuk how could Jesus be God and man at the same time and still die.
            I guess I still don't get the dual nature thing!! It's so absurd!



            --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, moto_bl <no_reply@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to
            explain
            > this verse?
            >
            >
            > --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard
            > anotherpaul2001@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text
            as
            > they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
            > could not die.
            > >
            > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > >
            > > From: teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
            > > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it
            has
            > not posted yet. So, I will respond to it anyway. Basically the
            > question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
            > >
            > > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12 "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God,
            > my Holy One, you do not die." ?
            > >
            > > But many other Bibles render it as
            > >
            > > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
            > >
            > > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say. However many do not. Here
            > are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel
            > Bible (Oxford University Press, 1993):
            > >
            > > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One? You
            shall
            > not die.
            > >
            > > (REB) LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One, who
            > is immortal?
            > >
            > > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
            > >
            > > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who
            > never dies!
            > > ............ ......... ......... ...
            > > Here are some others I found online:
            > >
            > > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy One?
            > for you there is no death.
            > >
            > > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my
            > God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
            > >
            > > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You
            are
            > my God, holy and eternal.
            > >
            > > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity,
            > Yahweh my God?
            > > My Holy One, You will not die.
            > > ............ ......... ......... ......
            > > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who
            is
            > immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in
            the
            > existing Hebrew text.
            > >
            > > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates
            it
            > "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a
            > change made by a pious scribe."
            > >
            >
          • moto_bl
            It certainly would seem unreasonable to believe that the God who is labeled the King of eternity (1 Tim. 1:17) and existing even from everlasting to
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 25, 2009

              It certainly would seem unreasonable to believe that the God who is labeled "the King of eternity" (1 Tim. 1:17) and existing "even from everlasting to everlasting" (Ps. 90:2, AS) to have temporarily died 2,000 years ago. But not unreasonable to believe that His son did.

              Because of it's confusing and contrary nature, many proponents today don't even try to understand it and would simply rather label the trinity a "mystery". To me, the real mystery is why it is still such an accepted teaching despite the relative ease to demonstate it's pagan and unscriptural history .

              --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, ginosko92 <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first of
              > the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically
              > speaking about Jehovah. Since God cannot die according to this verse in
              > Habakkuk how could Jesus be God and man at the same time and still die.
              > I guess I still don't get the dual nature thing!! It's so absurd!
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, moto_bl no_reply@
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to
              > explain
              > > this verse?
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard
              > > anotherpaul2001@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text
              > as
              > > they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
              > > could not die.

            • Paul Leonard
              They claim only the man (Human Nature not the Divine Nature) died. Oops, they also claim that Jesus has to be God because only God could die for our sins.
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 25, 2009
                They claim only the "man" (Human Nature not the Divine Nature) died.

                Oops, they also claim that Jesus has to be God because only God could die for our sins.

                Humm, either God can die or no death occurred for our sins.

                Or Jesus is not God and did not need to be God to die for us.

                Neither conclusion is liked by Trinitarians.

                --- On Thu, 6/25/09, ginosko92 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                From: ginosko92 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: Habakkuk 1:12
                To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:08 PM


                My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first of
                the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically
                speaking about Jehovah. Since God cannot die according to this verse in
                Habakkuk how could Jesus be God and man at the same time and still die.
                I guess I still don't get the dual nature thing!! It's so absurd!

                --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, moto_bl <no_reply@.. .>
                wrote:
                >
                > I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to
                explain
                > this verse?
                >
                >
                > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Leonard
                > anotherpaul2001@ wrote:
                > >
                > > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the text
                as
                > they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
                > could not die.
                > >
                > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com wrote:
                > >
                > > From: teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                > > Subject: [JWquestions- and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
                > > To: JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com
                > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it
                has
                > not posted yet. So, I will respond to it anyway. Basically the
                > question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
                > >
                > > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12 "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God,
                > my Holy One, you do not die." ?
                > >
                > > But many other Bibles render it as
                > >
                > > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
                > >
                > > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say. However many do not. Here
                > are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel
                > Bible (Oxford University Press, 1993):
                > >
                > > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One? You
                shall
                > not die.
                > >
                > > (REB) LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One, who
                > is immortal?
                > >
                > > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
                > >
                > > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who
                > never dies!
                > > ............ ......... ......... ...
                > > Here are some others I found online:
                > >
                > > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy One?
                > for you there is no death.
                > >
                > > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my
                > God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
                > >
                > > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You
                are
                > my God, holy and eternal.
                > >
                > > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity,
                > Yahweh my God?
                > > My Holy One, You will not die.
                > > ............ ......... ......... ......
                > > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who
                is
                > immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in
                the
                > existing Hebrew text.
                > >
                > > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates
                it
                > "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a
                > change made by a pious scribe."
                > >
                >

              • ginosko92
                At the time of his Human Nature s death what ever happened to his God nature?? Clearly the Scriptures tell us that Jesus had not gone back to his Father yet
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 26, 2009
                  At the time of his Human Nature's death what ever happened to his God
                  nature?? Clearly the Scriptures tell us that Jesus had not gone back to
                  his Father yet after his resurrection! So i guess the question is where
                  did God go while his Human Nature was gone for 3 days?



                  --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard
                  <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > They claim only the "man" (Human Nature not the Divine Nature) died.
                  >
                  > Oops, they also claim that Jesus has to be God because only God could
                  die for our sins.
                  >
                  > Humm, either God can die or no death occurred for our sins.
                  >
                  > Or Jesus is not God and did not need to be God to die for us.
                  >
                  > Neither conclusion is liked by Trinitarians.
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                  >
                  > From: ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: Habakkuk 1:12
                  > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:08 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first
                  of
                  >
                  > the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically
                  >
                  > speaking about Jehovah. Since God cannot die according to this verse
                  in
                  >
                  > Habakkuk how could Jesus be God and man at the same time and still
                  die.
                  >
                  > I guess I still don't get the dual nature thing!! It's so absurd!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, moto_bl no_reply@
                  .>
                  >
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to
                  >
                  > explain
                  >
                  > > this verse?
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Leonard
                  >
                  > > anotherpaul2001@ wrote:
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the
                  text
                  >
                  > as
                  >
                  > > they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
                  >
                  > > could not die.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > From: teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                  >
                  > > > Subject: [JWquestions- and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
                  >
                  > > > To: JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com
                  >
                  > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it
                  >
                  > has
                  >
                  > > not posted yet. So, I will respond to it anyway. Basically the
                  >
                  > > question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12 "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my
                  God,
                  >
                  > > my Holy One, you do not die." ?
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > But many other Bibles render it as
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say. However many do not.
                  Here
                  >
                  > > are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel
                  >
                  > > Bible (Oxford University Press, 1993):
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One? You
                  >
                  > shall
                  >
                  > > not die.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (REB) LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One,
                  who
                  >
                  > > is immortal?
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who
                  >
                  > > never dies!
                  >
                  > > > ............ ......... ......... ...
                  >
                  > > > Here are some others I found online:
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy
                  One?
                  >
                  > > for you there is no death.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my
                  >
                  > > God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You
                  >
                  > are
                  >
                  > > my God, holy and eternal.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity,
                  >
                  > > Yahweh my God?
                  >
                  > > > My Holy One, You will not die.
                  >
                  > > > ............ ......... ......... ......
                  >
                  > > > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who
                  >
                  > is
                  >
                  > > immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in
                  >
                  > the
                  >
                  > > existing Hebrew text.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates
                  >
                  > it
                  >
                  > > "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a
                  >
                  > > change made by a pious scribe."
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                • Paul Leonard
                  They will tell you his God nature went to the angels in prison during those 3 days. ... From: ginosko92 Subject:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 26, 2009
                    They will tell you his God nature went to the angels in prison during those 3 days.

                    --- On Fri, 6/26/09, ginosko92 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    From: ginosko92 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: Habakkuk 1:12
                    To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:27 AM


                    At the time of his Human Nature's death what ever happened to his God
                    nature?? Clearly the Scriptures tell us that Jesus had not gone back to
                    his Father yet after his resurrection! So i guess the question is where
                    did God go while his Human Nature was gone for 3 days?

                    --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Leonard
                    <anotherpaul2001@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > They claim only the "man" (Human Nature not the Divine Nature) died.
                    >
                    > Oops, they also claim that Jesus has to be God because only God could
                    die for our sins.
                    >
                    > Humm, either God can die or no death occurred for our sins.
                    >
                    > Or Jesus is not God and did not need to be God to die for us.
                    >
                    > Neither conclusion is liked by Trinitarians.
                    >
                    > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroup s.com wrote:
                    >
                    > From: ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                    > Subject: [JWquestions- and_answers] Re: Habakkuk 1:12
                    > To: JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:08 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first
                    of
                    >
                    > the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically
                    >
                    > speaking about Jehovah. Since God cannot die according to this verse
                    in
                    >
                    > Habakkuk how could Jesus be God and man at the same time and still
                    die.
                    >
                    > I guess I still don't get the dual nature thing!! It's so absurd!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, moto_bl no_reply@
                    .>
                    >
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to
                    >
                    > explain
                    >
                    > > this verse?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Leonard
                    >
                    > > anotherpaul2001@ wrote:
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the
                    text
                    >
                    > as
                    >
                    > > they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
                    >
                    > > could not die.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > From: teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                    >
                    > > > Subject: [JWquestions- and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
                    >
                    > > > To: JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com
                    >
                    > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it
                    >
                    > has
                    >
                    > > not posted yet. So, I will respond to it anyway. Basically the
                    >
                    > > question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12 "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my
                    God,
                    >
                    > > my Holy One, you do not die." ?
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > But many other Bibles render it as
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say. However many do not.
                    Here
                    >
                    > > are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel
                    >
                    > > Bible (Oxford University Press, 1993):
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One? You
                    >
                    > shall
                    >
                    > > not die.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (REB) LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One,
                    who
                    >
                    > > is immortal?
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who
                    >
                    > > never dies!
                    >
                    > > > ............ ......... ......... ...
                    >
                    > > > Here are some others I found online:
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy
                    One?
                    >
                    > > for you there is no death.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my
                    >
                    > > God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You
                    >
                    > are
                    >
                    > > my God, holy and eternal.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity,
                    >
                    > > Yahweh my God?
                    >
                    > > > My Holy One, You will not die.
                    >
                    > > > ............ ......... ......... ......
                    >
                    > > > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who
                    >
                    > is
                    >
                    > > immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in
                    >
                    > the
                    >
                    > > existing Hebrew text.
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates
                    >
                    > it
                    >
                    > > "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a
                    >
                    > > change made by a pious scribe."
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >

                  • ginosko92
                    Good one! [:)] ... those 3 days. ... to ... where ... could ... first ... God ... it ... Parallel ... who ... my ... You ... who ... in ... translates ... a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 27, 2009

                      Good one! :)


                      --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > They will tell you his God nature went to the angels in prison during those 3 days.
                      >
                      > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                      >
                      > From: ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: Habakkuk 1:12
                      > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:27 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > At the time of his Human Nature's death what ever happened to his God
                      >
                      > nature?? Clearly the Scriptures tell us that Jesus had not gone back to
                      >
                      > his Father yet after his resurrection! So i guess the question is where
                      >
                      > did God go while his Human Nature was gone for 3 days?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Leonard
                      >
                      > <anotherpaul2001@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > They claim only the "man" (Human Nature not the Divine Nature) died.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Oops, they also claim that Jesus has to be God because only God could
                      >
                      > die for our sins.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Humm, either God can die or no death occurred for our sins.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Or Jesus is not God and did not need to be God to die for us.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Neither conclusion is liked by Trinitarians.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroup s.com wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > From: ginosko92 no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                      >
                      > > Subject: [JWquestions- and_answers] Re: Habakkuk 1:12
                      >
                      > > To: JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:08 PM
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > My first attempt was to be able to have an accurate translation first
                      >
                      > of
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > the verse in Habakkuk so to show that the verse was specifically
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > speaking about Jehovah. Since God cannot die according to this verse
                      >
                      > in
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Habakkuk how could Jesus be God and man at the same time and still
                      >
                      > die.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > I guess I still don't get the dual nature thing!! It's so absurd!
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, moto_bl no_reply@
                      >
                      > .>
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > I wonder how trinitarians (or 'Jesus is God' believers) attempt to
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > explain
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > this verse?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Leonard
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > anotherpaul2001@ wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > I believe that in the Scribal notes they admit to changing the
                      >
                      > text
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > as
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > they thought it was blasphemous to even suggest the need to say God
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > could not die.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                      >
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > From: teddy_trueblood no_reply@yahoogroup s.com
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Subject: [JWquestions- and_answers] Habakkuk 1:12
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > To: JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:37 PM
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > I approved a pending message here about twenty minutes ago, and it
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > has
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > not posted yet. So, I will respond to it anyway. Basically the
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > question was: why did the NWT render Habakkuk 1:12 as
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (NWT) Habakkuk 1:12 "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my
                      >
                      > God,
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > my Holy One, you do not die." ?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > But many other Bibles render it as
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (NASB) ... O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Yes, many Bibles translate it as you say. However many do not.
                      >
                      > Here
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > are the four modern Bibles found in my copy of The Complete Parallel
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Bible (Oxford University Press, 1993):
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (NRSV) Are you not from of old, O LORD my God, my Holy One? You
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > shall
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > not die.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (REB) LORD, are you not from ancient times my God and Holy One,
                      >
                      > who
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > is immortal?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (NAB) Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (NJB) Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > never dies!
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > ............ ......... ......... ...
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Here are some others I found online:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (BBE) Habakkuk 1:12 Are you not eternal, O Lord my God, my Holy
                      >
                      > One?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > for you there is no death.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (Rotherham) Habakkuk 1:12 Art not, thou, from of old, O Yahweh, my
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > God, my Holy One? Thou diest not!
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (TEV) Habakkuk 1:12 LORD, from the very beginning you are God. You
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > are
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > my God, holy and eternal.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > (The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Are You not from eternity,
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Yahweh my God?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > My Holy One, You will not die.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > ............ ......... ......... ......
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > The REB, quoted above, says in a footnote for this verse that "who
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > is
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > immortal" is probably the original reading that has been altered in
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > the
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > existing Hebrew text.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > And the Tanakh (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) which translates
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > it
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > "My holy God, You never die" also says in a footnote: "Heb. 'we,' a
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > change made by a pious scribe."
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >

                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.