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Re: [JWquestions-and_answers] is it possible to be disfellowshiped even if the sinner regrets his faults?

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  • Paul Leonard
    Yes, Regret/repentance alone is not all that is needed, a turning about or a change in behavior is also needed. *** it-2 p. 772 Repentance *** If there is
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 4, 2008
      Yes,

      Regret/repentance alone is not all that is needed,  a turning about or a change in behavior is also needed.

      *** it-2 p. 772 Repentance ***

      If there is faith and love for God in the person’s heart, there will be sincere regret, sadness over the wrong course. Appreciation for God’s goodness and greatness will make transgressors feel keen remorse at having brought reproach on his name. (Compare Job 42:1-6.) Love for neighbor will also make them rue the harm they have done to others, the bad example set, perhaps the way in which they have sullied the reputation of God’s people among outsiders. They seek forgiveness because they desire to honor God’s name and to work for the good of their neighbor. (1Ki 8:33, 34; Ps 25:7-11; 51:11-15; Da 9:18, 19) Repentantly they feel “broken at heart,” “crushed and lowly in spirit” (Ps 34:18; 51:17; Isa 57:15), they are “contrite in spirit and trembling at [God’s] word,” which calls for repentance (Isa 66:2), and in effect, they “come quivering to Jehovah and to his goodness.” (Ho 3:5) When David acted foolishly in the matter of a census, his “heart began to beat him.”—2Sa 24:10.

      *** it-2 p. 773 Repentance ***

      Regret, remorse, and tears, then, are not a certain measure of genuine repentance; the heart motive is determinative. Hosea voices Jehovah’s denunciation of Israel, for in their distress “they did not call to [him] for aid with their heart, although they kept howling on their beds. On account of their grain and sweet wine they kept loafing about . . . And they proceeded to return, not to anything higher.” Their groaning for relief in time of calamity was selfishly motivated, and if granted relief, they did not use the opportunity to improve their relationship with God by closer adherence to his high standards (compare Isa 55:8-11); they were like “a loose bow” that never hits the mark. (Ho 7:14-16; compare Ps 78:57; Jas 4:3.) Fasting, weeping, and wailing were proper—but only if the repentant ones ‘ripped apart their hearts’ and not simply their garments.—Joe 2:12, 13; see FAST; MOURNING.

      *** it-2 p. 771 Repentance ***

      Similarly, the extent to which the person deviates from righteousness may be major or minor, and logically the degree of regret ought to be commensurate with the degree of deviation. The Israelites went “deep in their revolt” against Jehovah and were “rotting away” in their transgressions. (Isa 31:6; 64:5, 6; Eze 33:10) On the other hand, the apostle Paul speaks of the “man [who] takes some false step before he is aware of it,” and counsels that those with spiritual qualifications “try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness.” (Ga 6:1) Since Jehovah mercifully considers the fleshly weakness of his servants, they need not be in a constant state of remorse due to their errors resulting from inherent imperfection. (Ps 103:8-14; 130:3) If they are conscientiously walking in God’s ways, they may be joyful.—Php 4:4-6; 1Jo 3:19-22.

      In addition if the person was repeatedly given counsel or has been shown mercy in the past, for the same problem, they could be DF'd.

      Evidence of repentance is also required where it is possible to show such.

      *** w97 11/15 p. 20 par. 7 Faith Makes Us Patient and Prayerful ***

      7 James tells his readers to “give way to misery and mourn and weep.” If they did manifest godly sadness, it would be evidence of repentance. (2 Corinthians 7:10, 11) Today, some who say that they have faith are seeking friendship with the world. If any of us are pursuing such a course, should we not mourn over our weak spiritual state and take immediate steps to correct matters? Making needed adjustments and receiving God’s forgiveness will produce a feeling of exultation because of a clean conscience and the joyful prospect of everlasting life.—Psalm 51:10-17; 1 John 2:15-17.

      *** w68 5/15 p. 320 Questions From Readers ***

      If she intends to profess repentance to the congregation judicial committee, they will look for evidence of repentance. For example, if she were truly repentant she would not shield the one with whom she sinned. If that one were part of the congregation, then the committee could pursue matters in that direction also, so as to maintain the congregation’s good standing with God. But in this situation, another evidence of sincere repentance on the woman’s part would be confession of the wrong to the innocent mate, seeking his forgiveness and assistance. If the guilty one is not willing to show humility in this way and bear responsibility for her sin, can it really be said that she is repentant? Hardly!

      carlosdaniel1116 <carlosdaniel1116@...> wrote:
      is it possible to be disfellowshiped even if the sinner regrets his faults?

    • tik_of_totg
      Thanks for providing those quotes, Paul. Again, I would like to re-emphasize to new ones here that disfellowshipping is not simply something made up by
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 5, 2008

        Thanks for providing those quotes, Paul.

         
           Again, I would like to re-emphasize to new ones here that disfellowshipping is not simply something made up by Jehovah's Witnesses. The act of disfellowshipping by the Christian congregation is admonished by Scripture by command and precedent. 
         
           The purpose of this is so the congregation can keep itself clean and in good standing before God and hopefully prompt the disfellowshipped one to attain sincere repentance.  The Christian congregation is also Scripturally counseled to stop socializing with those who are disorderly and not walking correctly. Paul wrote the Thessalonian congregation concerning such: "Stop associating with him, that he may be ashamed. And yet do not be considering him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother. "-2Th. 3:13-15).   

           Disfellowshipping is not done out of spite or hatred for that individual. Rather, it may have the effect of having that person demonstrate their sincere repentance.

           Those who have been expelled may be received back into the congregation if they manifest such sincere repentance. (2 Co 2:5-8) This is a protection to the congregation, preventing it from becoming harsh and unforgiving. -2 Co 2:10,11.

        Insight, Vol.2 "Repentance":

           "Repentance marks a halt in the person's wrong course, the rejection of that wrong way, and the determination to take a right course. If genuine, it will therefore be followed by "conversion." (Ac 15:3) Both in Hebrew and in Greek the verbs relating to conversion (Heb., shuv; Gr., stre´pho; e·pi·stre´pho) mean simply "turn back, turn around, or return." (Ge 18:10; Pr 15:1; Jer 18:4; Joh 12:40; 21:20; Ac 15:36) Used in a spiritual sense, this can refer to a turning to God from a wrong way.—1Ki 8:33.

           "Conversion implies more than a mere attitude or verbal expression; it involves the "works that befit repentance." (Ac 26:20; Mt 3:8) It is an active `seeking,' `searching,' `inquiring' for Jehovah with all one's heart and soul. (De 4:29; 1Ki 8:48; Jer 29:12-14) This, of necessity, means seeking God's favor by `listening to his voice' as expressed in his Word (De 4:30; 30:2, 8).

           "This calls for "a new heart and a new spirit" (Eze 18:31); one's changed thinking, motivation, and aim in life produce a new frame of mind, disposition, and moral force. For the one whose life course changes, the result is a "new personality which was created according to God's will in true righteousness and loyalty" (Eph 4:17-24), free from immorality, covetousness, as well as violent speech and conduct. (Col 3:5-10; contrast Ho 5:4-6.) For such ones God causes the spirit of wisdom to "bubble forth," making his words known to them.—Pr 1:23; compare 2Ti 2:25.

           "Thus genuine repentance has real impact, generates force, moves the person to "turn around." (Ac 3:19) Hence Jesus could say to those in Laodicea: "Be zealous and repent." (Re 3:19; compare Re 2:5; 3:2, 3.) There is evidence of `great earnestness, clearing of oneself, godly fear, longing, and righting of the wrong.' (2Co 7:10, 11) Absence of concern for rectifying wrongs committed shows lack of true repentance.—Compare Ezek. 33:14, 15; Lu 19:8."


         

         

        --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes,
        >
        > Regret/repentance alone is not all that is needed, a turning about or a change in behavior is also needed.
        >
        > *** it-2 p. 772 Repentance ***
        >
        > If there is faith and love for God in the person's heart, there will be sincere regret, sadness over the wrong course. Appreciation for God's goodness and greatness will make transgressors feel keen remorse at having brought reproach on his name. (Compare Job 42:1-6.) Love for neighbor will also make them rue the harm they have done to others, the bad example set, perhaps the way in which they have sullied the reputation of God's people among outsiders. They seek forgiveness because they desire to honor God's name and to work for the good of their neighbor. (1Ki 8:33, 34; Ps 25:7-11; 51:11-15; Da 9:18, 19) Repentantly they feel "broken at heart," "crushed and lowly in spirit" (Ps 34:18; 51:17; Isa 57:15), they are "contrite in spirit and trembling at [God's] word," which calls for repentance (Isa 66:2), and in effect, they "come quivering to Jehovah and to his goodness." (Ho 3:5) When David acted foolishly in the matter of a census, his "heart began to beat him."—2Sa 24:10.
        >
        > *** it-2 p. 773 Repentance ***
        >
        > Regret, remorse, and tears, then, are not a certain measure of genuine repentance; the heart motive is determinative. Hosea voices Jehovah's denunciation of Israel, for in their distress "they did not call to [him] for aid with their heart, although they kept howling on their beds. On account of their grain and sweet wine they kept loafing about . . . And they proceeded to return, not to anything higher." Their groaning for relief in time of calamity was selfishly motivated, and if granted relief, they did not use the opportunity to improve their relationship with God by closer adherence to his high standards (compare Isa 55:8-11); they were like "a loose bow" that never hits the mark. (Ho 7:14-16; compare Ps 78:57; Jas 4:3.) Fasting, weeping, and wailing were proper—but only if the repentant ones `ripped apart their hearts' and not simply their garments.—Joe 2:12, 13; see FAST; MOURNING.
        >
        > *** it-2 p. 771 Repentance ***
        >
        > Similarly, the extent to which the person deviates from righteousness may be major or minor, and logically the degree of regret ought to be commensurate with the degree of deviation. The Israelites went "deep in their revolt" against Jehovah and were "rotting away" in their transgressions. (Isa 31:6; 64:5, 6; Eze 33:10) On the other hand, the apostle Paul speaks of the "man [who] takes some false step before he is aware of it," and counsels that those with spiritual qualifications "try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness." (Ga 6:1) Since Jehovah mercifully considers the fleshly weakness of his servants, they need not be in a constant state of remorse due to their errors resulting from inherent imperfection. (Ps 103:8-14; 130:3) If they are conscientiously walking in God's ways, they may be joyful.—Php 4:4-6; 1Jo 3:19-22.
        >
        > In addition if the person was repeatedly given counsel or has been shown mercy in the past, for the same problem, they could be DF'd.
        >
        > Evidence of repentance is also required where it is possible to show such.
        >
        > *** w97 11/15 p. 20 par. 7 Faith Makes Us Patient and Prayerful ***
        >
        > 7 James tells his readers to "give way to misery and mourn and weep." If they did manifest godly sadness, it would be evidence of repentance. (2 Corinthians 7:10, 11) Today, some who say that they have faith are seeking friendship with the world. If any of us are pursuing such a course, should we not mourn over our weak spiritual state and take immediate steps to correct matters? Making needed adjustments and receiving God's forgiveness will produce a feeling of exultation because of a clean conscience and the joyful prospect of everlasting life.—Psalm 51:10-17; 1 John 2:15-17.
        >
        > *** w68 5/15 p. 320 Questions From Readers ***
        >
        > If she intends to profess repentance to the congregation judicial committee, they will look for evidence of repentance. For example, if she were truly repentant she would not shield the one with whom she sinned. If that one were part of the congregation, then the committee could pursue matters in that direction also, so as to maintain the congregation's good standing with God. But in this situation, another evidence of sincere repentance on the woman's part would be confession of the wrong to the innocent mate, seeking his forgiveness and assistance. If the guilty one is not willing to show humility in this way and bear responsibility for her sin, can it really be said that she is repentant? Hardly!
        >
        > carlosdaniel1116 carlosdaniel1116@... wrote: is it possible to be disfellowshiped even if the sinner regrets his faults?
        >

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