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Re: JEHOVAH

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  • moto_bl
    Hello, Janice, I m sorry that it took so long for me to respond to your concern about the glories spoken of in 1 Corinthians. To refresh the subject, you
    Message 1 of 45 , Jan 2 5:15 PM

      Hello, Janice,

      I'm sorry that it took so long for me to respond to your concern about the "glories" spoken of in 1 Corinthians.

      To refresh the subject, you said:

      "Their (LDS) belief is that...before we are born to earth, we lived with God in heaven...God sends every spirit to earth to prove loyalty to Him (and) if we prove loyal in our life on earth, (then) we are allowed to return to Him & live with Him forever & we will be like Him. If we are not loyal, we will be sent to one of the other glories spoaken of in 1 Cor. Glory of the sun is highest where God lives, moon is second where Jesus & the holy spirit will visit us, (and the) stars is 3rd where only the holy spirit will visit those."

      I located the passage in question:

      For context, Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:35-41:

      "35 Nevertheless, someone will say: "How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?" 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; 37 and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory."

      Paul was talking here about the resurrection and how God was not going to raise the bodies that people had while on earth. Those bodies will have had turned to dust. (Gen. 3:19) Rather, there would be a transformation, either as a physical body or a spiritual one. Paul brings out in the next verses:

      42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.

      The Bible shows that the hope for most humans who have died is to be resurrected in a physical body. The vast majority of the dead are to be raised to life as humans on a paradise earth. (Luke 23:43; John 5:28)

      As for the rest who are resurrected in spirit bodies and live in the spirit realm, they are relatively small in number. The Bible mentions that number as being only a "hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth". (Rev. 14:1-3) So the 144,000 Christians who do have the hope of living in heaven first die as humans. Then, at God's appointed time, he brings them back to life in entirely new bodies. They are resurrected in spirit bodies and live in the spirit realm.

      Paul here is contrasting heavenly angels with flesh-and-blood humans. So concerning the different "glories", the context shows that it is just Paul similarly comparing the diversity in the inanimate creation. It is interesting to note that there is no mention of us being sent to the glory of the sun or moon or stars and no mention of any visitations.

       

      --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Janice Huskey <janicehuskey2007@...> wrote:
      >
      > Their belief is that,God is the father of every human ,that before we are born to earth,we lived with God in heaven,we were spirits,God sends every spirit to earth to prove loyalty to Him,if we prove loyal in our life on earth, we are allowed to return to Him & live with Him forever,& we will be like Him,if we are notoyal we will be sent to one of the other glories spoaken of in 1cor. glory of the sun is highest where God lives,moon is second where Jesus,& the holy spirit will visit us,stars is 3rd where only the holy spirit will visit those ones.They believe God is the father of everyone,we are all brothers,& sisters.Jesus is called by them,our elder brother because he was the firstborn of God ,& Mary,but after we are all born by God,& Mary as their spirit children,we live with Him in heaven untill its our time to be born to earth,to human parents who can give us a human body.so we can prove ourselvs worthy to return to God our father,& live with Him
      > forever.they call God heavenly father because He is the father of all living first in heaven as spirits,next as humans on earth,then back to the degree of glory we earn while on earth..I know this because I was raised with them,but I began to question some of their teachings when my husband who is not with any church always brought up the argument that they were worshiping Joseph Smith and not God...Janice H
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: moto_bl no_reply@yahoogroups.com
      > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 6:39:58 PM
      > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: JEHOVAH
      >
      > I have been unable to find a CURRENT, clear-cut explanation of their belief on this subject. I DID find a brief, vague reference in the following quote from their official LDS website:
      > "God is your Father in Heaven ( Matthew 6:9 ). We call God Heavenly Father because He is the Father of our spirits and we are created in His image ( Genesis 1:27 ).
      > God has a body that looks like yours, though His body is immortal, perfected, and has a glory beyond description. "
      > The concept of God being a man (or was a man) is clearly not supported by the Bible. Explaining the nature of God, the Bible plainly states: "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24; 2Co 3:17)
      > In the above quote, it is even admitted that God is "in Heaven". The Bible tells us that the heavens are God's "established place of dwelling." (1 Kings 8:43) But Heaven is the SPIRIT realm, and that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit that heavenly Kingdom. (1Co 15:42-50)
      > So because "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), this rules out any physical likeness between God and man. True, man WAS made in God's image. (Gen. 1:26,27) However, an image is a likeness and by definition, cannot be the original. Rather, man has qualities reflecting, or mirroring, those of his heavenly Maker, qualities that positively distinguish man from the animal creation.
      > As for the holy spirit being a person, the Bible shows that the holy spirit is not a man but is instead God's active force:
      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JWquestion s-and_answers/ links/Holy_ Spirit_001176767 610/
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Janice Huskey <janicehuskey2007@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Why does the LDS say that God was once a man like us ,& gained so much knowledge ,& power that He became God,& that we can become like him,& live in the celstail kingdom with him as a god? They also say the holy spirit is a man who lives on earth at different areas.Is this teaching found in the bible? Are there 3 different degrees of glory one can obtain? They say This is all supported by the bible..Thank you Janice H

    • moto_bl
      Hello, Janice, I m sorry that it took so long for me to respond to your concern about the glories spoken of in 1 Corinthians. To refresh the subject, you
      Message 45 of 45 , Jan 2 5:15 PM

        Hello, Janice,

        I'm sorry that it took so long for me to respond to your concern about the "glories" spoken of in 1 Corinthians.

        To refresh the subject, you said:

        "Their (LDS) belief is that...before we are born to earth, we lived with God in heaven...God sends every spirit to earth to prove loyalty to Him (and) if we prove loyal in our life on earth, (then) we are allowed to return to Him & live with Him forever & we will be like Him. If we are not loyal, we will be sent to one of the other glories spoaken of in 1 Cor. Glory of the sun is highest where God lives, moon is second where Jesus & the holy spirit will visit us, (and the) stars is 3rd where only the holy spirit will visit those."

        I located the passage in question:

        For context, Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:35-41:

        "35 Nevertheless, someone will say: "How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?" 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; 37 and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory."

        Paul was talking here about the resurrection and how God was not going to raise the bodies that people had while on earth. Those bodies will have had turned to dust. (Gen. 3:19) Rather, there would be a transformation, either as a physical body or a spiritual one. Paul brings out in the next verses:

        42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.

        The Bible shows that the hope for most humans who have died is to be resurrected in a physical body. The vast majority of the dead are to be raised to life as humans on a paradise earth. (Luke 23:43; John 5:28)

        As for the rest who are resurrected in spirit bodies and live in the spirit realm, they are relatively small in number. The Bible mentions that number as being only a "hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth". (Rev. 14:1-3) So the 144,000 Christians who do have the hope of living in heaven first die as humans. Then, at God's appointed time, he brings them back to life in entirely new bodies. They are resurrected in spirit bodies and live in the spirit realm.

        Paul here is contrasting heavenly angels with flesh-and-blood humans. So concerning the different "glories", the context shows that it is just Paul similarly comparing the diversity in the inanimate creation. It is interesting to note that there is no mention of us being sent to the glory of the sun or moon or stars and no mention of any visitations.

         

        --- In JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com, Janice Huskey <janicehuskey2007@...> wrote:
        >
        > Their belief is that,God is the father of every human ,that before we are born to earth,we lived with God in heaven,we were spirits,God sends every spirit to earth to prove loyalty to Him,if we prove loyal in our life on earth, we are allowed to return to Him & live with Him forever,& we will be like Him,if we are notoyal we will be sent to one of the other glories spoaken of in 1cor. glory of the sun is highest where God lives,moon is second where Jesus,& the holy spirit will visit us,stars is 3rd where only the holy spirit will visit those ones.They believe God is the father of everyone,we are all brothers,& sisters.Jesus is called by them,our elder brother because he was the firstborn of God ,& Mary,but after we are all born by God,& Mary as their spirit children,we live with Him in heaven untill its our time to be born to earth,to human parents who can give us a human body.so we can prove ourselvs worthy to return to God our father,& live with Him
        > forever.they call God heavenly father because He is the father of all living first in heaven as spirits,next as humans on earth,then back to the degree of glory we earn while on earth..I know this because I was raised with them,but I began to question some of their teachings when my husband who is not with any church always brought up the argument that they were worshiping Joseph Smith and not God...Janice H
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: moto_bl no_reply@yahoogroups.com
        > To: JWquestions-and_answers@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 6:39:58 PM
        > Subject: [JWquestions-and_answers] Re: JEHOVAH
        >
        > I have been unable to find a CURRENT, clear-cut explanation of their belief on this subject. I DID find a brief, vague reference in the following quote from their official LDS website:
        > "God is your Father in Heaven ( Matthew 6:9 ). We call God Heavenly Father because He is the Father of our spirits and we are created in His image ( Genesis 1:27 ).
        > God has a body that looks like yours, though His body is immortal, perfected, and has a glory beyond description. "
        > The concept of God being a man (or was a man) is clearly not supported by the Bible. Explaining the nature of God, the Bible plainly states: "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24; 2Co 3:17)
        > In the above quote, it is even admitted that God is "in Heaven". The Bible tells us that the heavens are God's "established place of dwelling." (1 Kings 8:43) But Heaven is the SPIRIT realm, and that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit that heavenly Kingdom. (1Co 15:42-50)
        > So because "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), this rules out any physical likeness between God and man. True, man WAS made in God's image. (Gen. 1:26,27) However, an image is a likeness and by definition, cannot be the original. Rather, man has qualities reflecting, or mirroring, those of his heavenly Maker, qualities that positively distinguish man from the animal creation.
        > As for the holy spirit being a person, the Bible shows that the holy spirit is not a man but is instead God's active force:
        > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JWquestion s-and_answers/ links/Holy_ Spirit_001176767 610/
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In JWquestions- and_answers@ yahoogroups. com, Janice Huskey <janicehuskey2007@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Why does the LDS say that God was once a man like us ,& gained so much knowledge ,& power that He became God,& that we can become like him,& live in the celstail kingdom with him as a god? They also say the holy spirit is a man who lives on earth at different areas.Is this teaching found in the bible? Are there 3 different degrees of glory one can obtain? They say This is all supported by the bible..Thank you Janice H

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