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Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Jason's rudder problems

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  • Jason Smith
    At this point, I would recommend greasing the bearing, provided grease fittings are present. I ve heard from a couple of owners of the lack of zerk fittings
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 23 4:43 PM
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      At this point, I would recommend greasing the bearing, provided grease fittings are present.  I've heard from a couple of owners of the lack of zerk fittings on their J/28s.  I don't think I would add them, if not already in place.
       
      Delrin, I've learned, is fine on it own without grease and the water will provide lubrication.  It's my thought that the grease is a means of displacing water, which will help prevent corrosion of the stainless steel sleeve.  It also might help tighten up any slop present from wear of the delin bushing.
       
      There has not been any further progress made;  a roller bearing is going to run $1000+, probably closer to $1500 for the part.  The next option is to find / machine a replacement delrin bushing.  Our final option is to rebuild the existing bushing with epoxy/carbon/graphite, then hone to proper ID.  I'm not real comfortable with #3, but this is likely the easier solution.
       
      Jason

      On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Reich <lsreich@...> wrote:


      From John --
      > Jason Smith and I are both at about the same spot in a rubber bearing replacement you should check it out. Jason has taken some great pictures of the process.
      > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53478-rudder-bearing-info-j-28-a.html

      That's all very interesting. Great photos, Jason.

      Jason -- For those of us not yet experiencing play in the rudder bearing, do you still recommend hitting both of the zerk fittings with grease in the spring?

      Thanks for your input -- Lenny


    • saintcnc
      I owned hull #62 and when I first purchased the boat it also had play in rudder. I had the rudder removed, repaired and the boatyard serviced with a packing
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 23 7:12 PM
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        I owned hull #62 and when I first purchased the boat it also had play in rudder. I had the rudder removed, repaired and the boatyard serviced with a packing material though I'm not sure the exact material they used. I will upload the pictures to the photo link for anyone that is interested.
      • jason3317@gmail.com
        Thanks for the information. How long ago was this repair done? Can you provide the name of the yard when you post the link? Jason Sent from my Verizon
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 23 7:31 PM
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          Thanks for the information. How long ago was this repair done? Can you provide the name of the yard when you post the link?

          Jason

          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


          From: "saintcnc"
          Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:12:46 -0000
          To: <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Jason's rudder problems

          I owned hull #62 and when I first purchased the boat it also had play in rudder. I had the rudder removed, repaired and the boatyard serviced with a packing material though I'm not sure the exact material they used. I will upload the pictures to the photo link for anyone that is interested.

        • jfws88
          Jason,, where are you in the process. I goinging in the direction or replacement but am not yet at the point of no return. How hard is it to get the delron
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 26 6:01 PM
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            Jason,, where are you in the process. I goinging in the direction or replacement but am not yet at the point of no return. How hard is it to get the delron bearing out? Do you have to cut it out?

            BTW checkout his material.www.vesconite.com


            John


            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jason Smith <jason3317@...> wrote:
            >
            > At this point, I would recommend greasing the bearing, provided grease
            > fittings are present. I've heard from a couple of owners of the lack of
            > zerk fittings on their J/28s. I don't think I would add them, if not
            > already in place.
            >
            > Delrin, I've learned, is fine on it own without grease and the water will
            > provide lubrication. It's my thought that the grease is a means of
            > displacing water, which will help prevent corrosion of the stainless steel
            > sleeve. It also might help tighten up any slop present from wear of the
            > delin bushing.
            >
            > There has not been any further progress made; a roller bearing is going to
            > run $1000+, probably closer to $1500 for the part. The next option is to
            > find / machine a replacement delrin bushing. Our final option is to rebuild
            > the existing bushing with epoxy/carbon/graphite, then hone to proper ID.
            > I'm not real comfortable with #3, but this is likely the easier solution.
            >
            > Jason
            >
            > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Reich <lsreich@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > From John --
            > > > Jason Smith and I are both at about the same spot in a rubber bearing
            > > replacement you should check it out. Jason has taken some great pictures of
            > > the process.
            > > >
            > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53478-rudder-bearing-info-j-28-a.html
            > >
            > > That's all very interesting. Great photos, Jason.
            > >
            > > Jason -- For those of us not yet experiencing play in the rudder bearing,
            > > do you still recommend hitting both of the zerk fittings with grease in the
            > > spring?
            > >
            > > Thanks for your input -- Lenny
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Jason Smith
            After further disucssion with the my yard, plus a couple of guys in Annapolis, I ve decided to have to delrin sleeve cut out and replaced. The yard will clean
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 26 6:14 PM
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              After further disucssion with the my yard, plus a couple of guys in Annapolis, I've decided to have to delrin sleeve cut out and replaced.  The yard will clean up the collar and have a local machine shop fab the new bushing. 
               
              The guys in Annapolis told me TPI built these rudder / bushing interfaces a 'little too loose'.  The fix was to pack the flange and really torque it down, but this did likely make the wheel effort higher than normal.  It's likely installed with 5200, so i am expecting they will have to cut it out.

              On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 9:01 PM, jfws88 <jfws88@...> wrote:


              Jason,, where are you in the process. I goinging in the direction or replacement but am not yet at the point of no return. How hard is it to get the delron bearing out? Do you have to cut it out?

              BTW checkout his material.www.vesconite.com

              John

              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jason Smith <jason3317@...> wrote:
              >
              > At this point, I would recommend greasing the bearing, provided grease
              > fittings are present. I've heard from a couple of owners of the lack of
              > zerk fittings on their J/28s. I don't think I would add them, if not
              > already in place.
              >
              > Delrin, I've learned, is fine on it own without grease and the water will
              > provide lubrication. It's my thought that the grease is a means of
              > displacing water, which will help prevent corrosion of the stainless steel
              > sleeve. It also might help tighten up any slop present from wear of the
              > delin bushing.
              >
              > There has not been any further progress made; a roller bearing is going to
              > run $1000+, probably closer to $1500 for the part. The next option is to
              > find / machine a replacement delrin bushing. Our final option is to rebuild
              > the existing bushing with epoxy/carbon/graphite, then hone to proper ID.
              > I'm not real comfortable with #3, but this is likely the easier solution.
              >
              > Jason
              >
              > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Reich <lsreich@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > From John --
              > > > Jason Smith and I are both at about the same spot in a rubber bearing
              > > replacement you should check it out. Jason has taken some great pictures of
              > > the process.
              > > >
              > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53478-rudder-bearing-info-j-28-a.html
              > >
              > > That's all very interesting. Great photos, Jason.
              > >
              > > Jason -- For those of us not yet experiencing play in the rudder bearing,
              > > do you still recommend hitting both of the zerk fittings with grease in the
              > > spring?
              > >
              > > Thanks for your input -- Lenny
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >


            • jfws88
              I was afraid of that. Well one of my favorite tools is my sawzall. I hope it can get it out without screwing the houseing up to much. John
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 26 6:54 PM
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                I was afraid of that. Well one of my favorite tools is my sawzall. I hope it can get it out without screwing the houseing up to much.

                John

                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jason Smith <jason3317@...> wrote:
                >
                > After further disucssion with the my yard, plus a couple of guys in
                > Annapolis, I've decided to have to delrin sleeve cut out and replaced. The
                > yard will clean up the collar and have a local machine shop fab the new
                > bushing.
                >
                > The guys in Annapolis told me TPI built these rudder / bushing interfaces a
                > 'little too loose'. The fix was to pack the flange and really torque it
                > down, but this did likely make the wheel effort higher than normal. It's
                > likely installed with 5200, so i am expecting they will have to cut it out.
                >
                > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 9:01 PM, jfws88 <jfws88@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Jason,, where are you in the process. I goinging in the direction or
                > > replacement but am not yet at the point of no return. How hard is it to get
                > > the delron bearing out? Do you have to cut it out?
                > >
                > > BTW checkout his material.www.vesconite.com
                > >
                > > John
                > >
                > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com <J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com>, Jason
                > > Smith <jason3317@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > At this point, I would recommend greasing the bearing, provided grease
                > > > fittings are present. I've heard from a couple of owners of the lack of
                > > > zerk fittings on their J/28s. I don't think I would add them, if not
                > > > already in place.
                > > >
                > > > Delrin, I've learned, is fine on it own without grease and the water will
                > > > provide lubrication. It's my thought that the grease is a means of
                > > > displacing water, which will help prevent corrosion of the stainless
                > > steel
                > > > sleeve. It also might help tighten up any slop present from wear of the
                > > > delin bushing.
                > > >
                > > > There has not been any further progress made; a roller bearing is going
                > > to
                > > > run $1000+, probably closer to $1500 for the part. The next option is to
                > > > find / machine a replacement delrin bushing. Our final option is to
                > > rebuild
                > > > the existing bushing with epoxy/carbon/graphite, then hone to proper ID.
                > > > I'm not real comfortable with #3, but this is likely the easier solution.
                > > >
                > > > Jason
                > > >
                > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Lenny Reich <lsreich@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > From John --
                > > > > > Jason Smith and I are both at about the same spot in a rubber bearing
                > > > > replacement you should check it out. Jason has taken some great
                > > pictures of
                > > > > the process.
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53478-rudder-bearing-info-j-28-a.html
                > > > >
                > > > > That's all very interesting. Great photos, Jason.
                > > > >
                > > > > Jason -- For those of us not yet experiencing play in the rudder
                > > bearing,
                > > > > do you still recommend hitting both of the zerk fittings with grease in
                > > the
                > > > > spring?
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks for your input -- Lenny
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • saintcnc
                Regarding the work done on rudder: I had the work done at Ullman Sails in Sarasota. We can t remember the exact material we used to repack the rudder shaft
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 27 6:47 AM
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                  Regarding the work done on rudder: I had the work done at Ullman Sails in Sarasota. We can't remember the exact material we used to repack the rudder shaft as it was almost 4 years ago. I called the guys that did repair and they said it was a marine packing material. It was thicker that what you would use on the prop shaft and they thought they used a packing material that was designed for a large powerboat shaft. Hope this helps.

                  Randy
                • jason3317@gmail.com
                  Randy, thanks for the update. Jason Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: saintcnc Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:47:42 To:
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 27 7:14 AM
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                    Randy, thanks for the update.

                    Jason

                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


                    From: "saintcnc"
                    Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:47:42 -0000
                    To: <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Jason's rudder problems

                    Regarding the work done on rudder: I had the work done at Ullman Sails in Sarasota. We can't remember the exact material we used to repack the rudder shaft as it was almost 4 years ago. I called the guys that did repair and they said it was a marine packing material. It was thicker that what you would use on the prop shaft and they thought they used a packing material that was designed for a large powerboat shaft. Hope this helps.

                    Randy

                  • andersenhans15
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 23, 2009
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                      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Reich" <lsreich@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From John --
                      > > Jason Smith and I are both at about the same spot in a rubber bearing replacement you should check it out. Jason has taken some great pictures of the process.
                      > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53478-rudder-bearing-info-j-28-a.html
                      >
                      >
                      > That's all very interesting. Great photos, Jason.
                      >
                      > Jason -- For those of us not yet experiencing play in the rudder bearing, do you still recommend hitting both of the zerk fittings with grease in the spring?
                      >
                      > Thanks for your input -- Lenny
                      >
                    • andersenhans15
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 23, 2009
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                        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "andersenhans15" <hansandsharon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Reich" <lsreich@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From John --
                        > > > Jason Smith and I are both at about the same spot in a rubber bearing replacement you should check it out. Jason has taken some great pictures of the process.
                        > > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53478-rudder-bearing-info-j-28-a.html
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > That's all very interesting. Great photos, Jason.
                        > >
                        > > Jason -- For those of us not yet experiencing play in the rudder bearing, do you still recommend hitting both of the zerk fittings with grease in the spring?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for your input -- Lenny
                        > >
                        >
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