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Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

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  • David Hastings
    Yes. Your chainplates are bolted thru the solid glass so moisture in the deck area doesn t actually weaken the system. But, if not remedied, sooner or later
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 4, 2013
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      Yes. Your chainplates are bolted thru the solid glass so moisture in the deck area doesn't actually weaken the system. But, if not remedied, sooner or later that leakage makes a real mess of the deck.  As soon as I return to my boat, about June 21, I'll take and post photos of my chainplate islands. They totally solve any leaking issues but the deck needs to be repaired and solid before considering such a remedy.

      Sent from my iPad

      David L. Hastings
      5608 W. Woodside Dr.
      Crystal River, FL 34429
      Home: 352-794-6440
      Cell: 315-345-2078

      On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@...> wrote:

       

      Hi All
      Question: : Does the chain plates bolts go thru solid fibreglass on the bulkhead?
      I also have issue with some moisture around the deck around the change plates
      I don't want to loose the mast
      Hans
      J28 Last Dance.
      ---- Original Message ----
      From: sailingmaster <sailingmaster@...>
      To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 7:14 pm
      Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

       
      I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates.  I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another.
      You can probably live with it for a while. I plan on keeping the boat for a good length of time and wanted to prevent it from getting any worse.

      I got a lot of help from David Hastings. If you email me directly, I will send you the advice he gave me. Its rather long to post here, but very helpful. He was very kind to take the time to walk me thru it.
      my direct email is sailingmaster@...

      When I bought the boat, my surveyor said there was moisture at the chainplates and the tracks.  I am happy to say the area around the tracks is dry as far as I can tell. They are removed and I have drill afew extra inspection holes and
      find just dry balsa.
       
      Around my chain plates was another story. T he core around the chainplates was completely soaked about 1 foot forward and aft rand inboard to the cabin side.  There was a lot of rot in the area immediately at the chainplate.
      At first, I tried the short cut method of drilling holes in the deck, drying and re epoxying (see Don Casey et al)  DO NOT DO THIS!  The area will not dry and you will probably find more rot than you think is there. You will assuredly find wet core.  Due to my haste, I am going to end up with a visible painted section in my deck. 

      After my mistake, I decided to go in underneath.  I cut away a section of the headliner aft of the bulkhead on both side (chain plates already removed) and then I opened up a section of glass to expose the core, this let me see what was really going on inside the deck. I removed a lot of wet core and found still good but wet core that I was able to dry with a fan and space heater.

      Next, on the starboard side, I removed the hanging locker and repeated the same process on the forward side of the bulkhead. This was not too difficult, but a royal pain in the ass just figuring how to get it detached!!  I am about to do the same to port, but I cannot seem to get the cabinet out, even after removing all the fasteners.  I may work thru the cabinet door though..luckily on my boat the moisture/rot was much worse on the stbd side and I suspect there is very litte to remove to port.

      I would recommend investing in a FEIN MULT-TOOL l to do the cutting and removal of the glass/balsa. It is much better than the copies and does the job NEATLY and quickly with little mess and not blowing dust all over the cabin.

      Next I am going to epoxy new balsa in place.  There are two schools of thought on this. One is pressing a large section of balsa back in and bracing to hold it in place. the other is to put it in in smaller pieces, wetting out, 
      then coating the balsa in thickened (to peanut butter consistency)and simply working a small section at a time. Then fill any gaps with thickened epoxy, sand and cover with new glass. I am going to use the second method based on David Recommendation and the fact that it is not a structural area that needs a lot of strength. 

      When cutting out the glass, I am told that you can be carefu land save the original cut out out piece and re lamintate it when the job is done.........good luck with that!  The glass around the rot came out easily, but ther rest was still solidly bonded to the wet balsa and was a royal pain to separate, In the end, i found it  easier to section out in smaller areas, cleaning as you go with a shop vac)

      There are several epoxies you can use. West is the best known, but its very brittle once hardened.  You can use West GFlex, w hich stays a little more pliable and will work if there is a littel moisture still there.
      I also checked out Smiths and MAS.  I ended up with the MAS based on recommendations from some boat builders at a local show (they were the ones that explained the differences to me.)

      I am going to use Smith's CPES to seal the wood around the holes for the genoa tracks and then re-bed with 3M 4000. Many use 4200, but it will not bond with both METAL and FG.  Again, another save but the 
      boat builder guys.

      I am going to start taking some photos, and will post soon on the yahoo page

      Let me know if I can help you further. I was going to try to buff  out my gel coat this year, but due to this project there will not be enough time before I launch late april. I would like to know what your find out for next season

      JP


      On Mar 24, 2013, at 6:02 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

       
      John,

      I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

      I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

      Thank you,
      Brad Taylor

      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
      >
      > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove st ripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
      > >
      > > John,
      > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
      > >
      > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello all
      > > >
      > > > ; Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
      > > >
      > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
      > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
      > > >
      > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
      > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
      > > >
      > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
      > > >
      > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
      > > >
      > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
      > > >
      > > > JP
      > > >
      > >
      >




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    • Jason Smith
      Yes. But make sure to address the leaking deck penetration or you risk deck delamination.
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 4, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes.  But make sure to address the leaking deck penetration or you risk deck delamination.

        On Tuesday, June 4, 2013, Hans Andersen wrote:
         

        Hi All
        Question: : Does the chain plates bolts go thru solid fibreglass on the bulkhead?
        I also have issue with some moisture around the deck around the change plates
        I don't want to loose the mast
        Hans
        J28 Last Dance.
        ---- Original Message ----
        From: sailingmaster <sailingmaster@...>
        To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 7:14 pm
        Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

         
        I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates.  I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another.
        You can probably live with it for a while. I plan on keeping the boat for a good length of time and wanted to prevent it from getting any worse.

        I got a lot of help from David Hastings. If you email me directly, I will send you the advice he gave me. Its rather long to post here, but very helpful. He was very kind to take the time to walk me thru it.
        my direct email is sailingmaster@...

        When I bought the boat, my surveyor said there was moisture at the chainplates and the tracks.  I am happy to say the area around the tracks is dry as far as I can tell. They are removed and I have drill afew extra inspection holes and
        find just dry balsa.
         
        Around my chain plates was another story. T he core around the chainplates was completely soaked about 1 foot forward and aft rand inboard to the cabin side.  There was a lot of rot in the area immediately at the chainplate.
        At first, I tried the short cut method of drilling holes in the deck, drying and re epoxying (see Don Casey et al)  DO NOT DO THIS!  The area will not dry and you will probably find more rot than you think is there. You will assuredly find wet core.  Due to my haste, I am going to end up with a visible painted section in my deck. 

        After my mistake, I decided to go in underneath.  I cut away a section of the headliner aft of the bulkhead on both side (chain plates already removed) and then I opened up a section of glass to expose the core, this let me see what was really going on inside the deck. I removed a lot of wet core and found still good but wet core that I was able to dry with a fan and space heater.

        Next, on the starboard side, I removed the hanging locker and repeated the same process on the forward side of the bulkhead. This was not too difficult, but a royal pain in the ass just figuring how to get it detached!!  I am about to do the same to port, but I cannot seem to get the cabinet out, even after removing all the fasteners.  I may work thru the cabinet door though..luckily on my boat the moisture/rot was much worse on the stbd side and I suspect there is very litte to remove to port.

        I would recommend investing in a FEIN MULT-TOOL l to do the cutting and removal of the glass/balsa. It is much better than the copies and does the job NEATLY and quickly with little mess and not blowing dust all over the cabin.

        Next I am going to epoxy new balsa in place.  There are two schools of thought on this. One is pressing a large section of balsa back in and bracing to hold it in place. the other is to put it in in smaller pieces, wetting out, 
        then coating the balsa in thickened (to peanut butter consistency)and simply working a small section at a time. Then fill any gaps with thickened epoxy, sand and cover with new glass. I am going to use the second method based on David Recommendation and the fact that it is not a structural area that needs a lot of strength. 

        When cutting out the glass, I am told that you can be carefu land save the original cut out out piece and re lamintate it when the job is done.........good luck with that!  The glass around the rot came out easily, but ther rest was still solidly bonded to the wet balsa and was a royal pain to separate, In the end, i found it  easier to section out in smaller areas, cleaning as you go with a shop vac)

        There are several epoxies you can use. West is the best known, but its very brittle once hardened.  You can use West GFlex, w hich stays a little more pliable and will work if there is a littel moisture still there.
        I also checked out Smiths and MAS.  I ended up with the MAS based on recommendations from some boat builders at a local show (they were the ones that explained the differences to me.)

        I am going to use Smith's CPES to seal the wood around the holes for the genoa tracks and then re-bed with 3M 4000. Many use 4200, but it will not bond with both METAL and FG.  Again, another save but the 
        boat builder guys.

        I am going to start taking some photos, and will post soon on the yahoo page

        Let me know if I can help you further. I was going to try to buff  out my gel coat this year, but due to this project there will not be enough time before I launch late april. I would like to know what your find out for next season

        JP


        On Mar 24, 2013, at 6:02 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

         
        John,

        I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

        I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

        Thank you,
        Brad Taylor

        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
        >
        > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove st ripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
        > >
        > > John,
        > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
        > >
        > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello all
        > > >
        > > > ; Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
        > > >
        > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
        > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
        > > >
        > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
        > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
        > > >
        > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
        > > >
        > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
        > > >
        > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
        > > >
        > > > JP
        > > >
        > >
        >


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